Wolfgang: "I have a rack mount, but it's still a work in progress so I won't show it yet." The Rack Literally Right behind him in the shot: "I'm about to ruin this man's whole career."
You touched on why you keep your homelab segmented. I would love a video on best practices of how to properly plan and set up a home lab, and the reasons behind it.
+1 for this. Lol. I’ve just brought a proliant micro server and was going to run some docker containers to have a nas storage, home assistant and media server but I saw you said that’s a bad idea now. So I guess I just use this for a nas server?
Docker Swarm imho is soo nice. Super easy to set up. As for Kubernetes its a bit hard to get running. Tho with distributions such as k3s its a bit easier to get started. (Which I'd recommend for Raspberry pi based clusters)
This is neat, but why use a 2u enclosure instead of a MiniITX case, and just putting that on your rack? Surely you could fit everything you beed in there, unless you're planning on adding in more cluster boards in the future?
Huh... It has two SATA ports, so I could use this as a replacement board for my NAS which runs on a low powered N3150 i-C. Maybe I pick one of those up once getting CM4 boards doesn't require me to scout on rpifinder all the time.
In all seriousness, better get yourself a mini PC that runs an Intel Jasper Lake CPU… This Turing Pi setup makes sense only when you have some accessible Pis.
As of td in 2022.....those 4 pi's will cost you around $500 plus! Not to mention you have to buy the bored and SD cards, fans and/or heat sinks. Prob cost you around $700 and up for everything! Or you can buy a budget PC or laptop for around $300 give or take with wayyyyy more performance!
I've mentioned it in the video as well. Hopefully the prices will go back to 'normal' soon, but yes, in the current situation it's cheaper to buy a handful of x86 thin clients instead
You can go low as 3/5 watt with an x86 system without problem. My NAS with a G5400 and it's around 10 watt idling, probably much lower without hdds. So, nothing that special. This setup have sense just to learn how cluster work and do experiment, i would use a system like that just for power saving situation.
I'm curious if there would be any chance of using extension cables or right angle brackets for the compute modules to get the board flatter and able to fit in a smaller case. it's kind of a shame it ends up being so tall when it could be so much more compact. like I also wonder if they could've used something SODIMM-esque to enable the compute modules to slot in and then be laid almost flat
Sorry, but do you happen to know how to type pipe ( | ) & backslash ( \ ) on the HHK Professional Classic keyboard? I realise this is a tad off-topic Q to ask here, but I've followed a previous video of yours where you (silently) install Gentoo Linux using this very same keyboard. It's bloody bugging me how to get the HHK to type these two, both of which can be used in the terminal ("Happy Hacking"? I think not). If you happen to know...most grateful in advance. Cheers (PS. No problems with anything else with this keyboard...bloody awkward nuisance with 'pipe' & 'backslash' though.)
Yes, it's the second from the last key in the top row (the one that has "Ins" on it). That being said, I'm using the US layout, so it might be different for you if you're on the UK layout.
@@WolfgangsChannel Oh thank you so much! There is only one keyboard layout as far as HHK is concerned: the US keyboard layout -- wherever one buys it. It's only available as that. I'll have a go. Many thanks.
@@WolfgangsChannel In case you find you need yourself the backslash ( \ ) & pipe ( | ) symbols for scripting, compiling, programing, CLI on the HHK keyboard Professional Classic (US layout). Right Alt + key showing dash ( - ) = \ And Right Alt + key showing tilde ( ~ ) = | Hope this makes sense. Exactly the same combinations produce backslash ( \ ) & pipe ( | ) on System76 LAUNCH's mechanical keyboard. Seems this is how you get backslash & pipe on US layout keyboards altogether. Cheers
Probably just get a B450 ITX ($90), throw in a used Ryzen 7 3700X 8C16T ($100 at 65W), 32GB of 3200MHz ram ($100), and throw in a GT 710 or 1030 or rx 550 for basic graphics ($100). Total for around $500. You can run 4 to 8 VMs with CPU clock speeds at 4.1 GHz.
You'll also need a power supply ($80-100), an SSD ($30-70) and at least some kind of a case or an open test bench to house the components in ($20-100). But the biggest issue is the power consumption. For Ryzen systems the idle power consumption can be anywhere from 40 all the way to 100W, which is 4-10 times higher than the Turing Pi. When it comes to the power consumption under load, Ryzen 3700x is only 65W on paper, but with the Core Performance Boost enabled the whole system can draw as much as 100-160W (4-6x higher). It's not surprising, considering the huge performance difference, but it just makes no sense to suggest a Ryzen system as an alternative to a Raspberry Pi cluster - they're in completely different 'weight classes'.
@@WolfgangsChannel If power consumption is a big deal for the purpose then one could still go with a 3700X, undervolting and setting a lower TDP is just as difficult as turning on PBO. Basic PC components are easily more available. More performance per investment dollar. Different weight class but availability determines routes.
Power consumption is about to become 'a big deal' for everyone, at least here in Europe. It would be great if you could "undervolt" and "underclock" x86 components to reach the Raspberry Pi numbers, but at least with Ryzen CPUs, the idle numbers are very high. It's definitely possible to build an x86 machine that is close to RPi in terms of power efficiency, but definitely not Ryzen-based.
Low-power is tempting, but these days' Pi's are so expensive, so it does not seem worth it, at least where I live. I just checked the price, and CM4 2GB is about 100 USD here. My home server is using an old quad-core 8-thread Xeon (that cost about 230 USD when I bought new) with two SSD's and two 3.5" spinning disks. On idle, it consumes about 30 Watts (without the spinning disks, 20 Watt), and the power consumption goes up to 50 or 60 Watts, if I do something that uses CPU, but mostly it stays idle. The CPU power is more than I need, but I thought about replacing the hardware with modern low-power devices like Pi's, but it would take several years, if not a decade, to recover the cost of new hardware from saving measly few dollars of electricity a month.
Hey I am currently selling my Dell XPS 9560 and saw a ThinkPad T480s I am selling it because I can't use that horrible keyboard anymore. Would you recommend a T480s for 369€ ?
How many times in 3 years do you need to enter the Bios on a Server? I installed ESXi on it and my uptimes are > 200 days (unless intel sucks again with a microcode update). But that requires zero Bios access... Please enlighten me.
Not that often once everything is dialed in. But it really helps with diagnosing network or boot issues. It's one of those things that you don't need very often, but when you do, you're glad it's there
Definitely not - TPi 2 doesn't have enough expandability for me. I need at least a PCIe x4 for my 10Gig network card, 8 SATA ports and a couple of NVMe ports
Too much expensive. I have a HP Prodesk mini PC 6700t with 16G ram 128 GB ssd for 250 euro and a HP Elitedesk mini PC 4785t 8G ram 128 GB ssd for 200 euro that can do the same if not more.
Don t recomand a PI for a server .I did in the past and it has low speed .I am using 2 Pi s for samba share with static ip s ,on my home and one running pimusicbox.If you wanna speed ,skip it
How far in the past? Pi 4 is way faster than Pi 3 both in terms of processing power and networking. Obviously you won't be encoding RAW 8K footage on it or using it as a render farm, but it has its uses
Ah true. Guess I was going for customizability here, since 3D printing a case would make sure to fit all the ports, outlets to the original board size. But alas, metal is cheaper than plastic, who knew!
If you're going to put your face on the thumbnail, could you look a bit less depressed? It feels like someone's holding you hostage and forcing you to make videos. If that's the case, please blink three times at the beginning of the next video and we'll call for help. That aside, good content!
I would love to 😭 But every time I film a video, I forget to do a "thumbnail face". So I have to pick a frame from the actual video where my face looks the least stupid, and in this case, that's the frame
Power efficiency??? What a bs, dude. First, you are NOT going to run it from a battery. Secondly, just try to measure a wattage of some modern 8-cores Intel CPU and your construction. If you’ll save for a can of beer after a month, I’ll be happy.
It takes 5 seconds to disprove your point by using Google. Let's take Intel i5-12600 as an example. Typical TDP: 65W, TDP up: 117W. That's 4 times higher than the Turing Pi, and with current energy prices that are bound to get worse, your wallet will definitely feel the difference. From a review: "With these processors now fabbed at 10nm, you may see some interesting energy efficiency; we expected to drop dead low IDLE energy levels due to the E-cores, but the system comes back at 70~80 Watts power draw in IDLE"
@@WolfgangsChannel Exactly. 50c per day a difference. I'm not sure about a can, but you can purchase a bottle of Slovak beer here for 45c -) PS Oh! We have electricity for 15c here, not for 25 as I calculated. So, two days for the beer. Pies are for learning. To test an orchestration engine for cheap. I think nobody suppose to use them in a real cluster.
Think months and years of continuous use. Even with relatively cheap electricity (15c/kWh), you're looking at a 6€ cost increase per month and a 92€ cost increase per year. This also scales with electricity prices, for example with 35c/kWh (German prices), you'll be spending extra €14 per month, and a whopping 172€ more per year. Pis are a great and a cost-effective way to run non-resource-intensive applications. And if we're talking serious clustering applications, you'll need much beefier and more professional and expensive hardware than just a consumer-grade Intel CPU. At which point you're looking at three-digit power consumption and $10000+ upfront hardware costs.
all, all allll pi goes to business, like 99,999% there is no true shortage just all goes to busines not diy people - thats why this platfor should be ban from people thinking use 20$ thin client, low power, ssd ports, pi is just stupid to sell everything to business, this is the end of platform for me, stupid prices, stupid behawior, no way i trust them in future
Instead of having to use overpriced and underpowered RPis in this clusterboard, is it possible to use lower cost and available SBCs like those from Odroid, Orange Pi, etc.?
![Building The "Ultimate" Router - [PFSense + Pi-hole + PIVPN]](/img/n.gif)
Turing Pi 2 Kickstarter is now up!
www.kickstarter.com/projects/turingpi/turing-pi-cluster-board
Hi, i can give that second pi a nice home :)
Raspberry Pi foundation: "We will add 0 dollars to the price of our boards!"
Scalpers: "That's a good idea actually, from 35$ to 350$, damn"
Wolfgang: "I have a rack mount, but it's still a work in progress so I won't show it yet."
The Rack Literally Right behind him in the shot: "I'm about to ruin this man's whole career."
I feel like almost all pi related videos I've watched in the past few months have all ended on a supply chain shortage issue note.
Nice coverage of the Turing Pi 2, it’s still exciting to wait for it - let’s hope stock improves before it becomes ‘old’ or superseded
You touched on why you keep your homelab segmented. I would love a video on best practices of how to properly plan and set up a home lab, and the reasons behind it.
+1 for this. Lol. I’ve just brought a proliant micro server and was going to run some docker containers to have a nas storage, home assistant and media server but I saw you said that’s a bad idea now. So I guess I just use this for a nas server?
Lol my Pi 4 order just updated a few days ago telling me the expected delivery is likely to be in Jan 2023 🤣
"High availability cluster."
> turing Pi board breaks <
> surprised Pikachu face
>Doesn't watch until 4:05
@@WolfgangsChannel Stimmt. Hab zugehört. Nicht zugehört, während du das sagtest. Und dann wieder zugehört. Sorry, Wolfgang.
Can't wait to get my hands on this! 😀 awesome video mate!
Docker Swarm imho is soo nice. Super easy to set up. As for Kubernetes its a bit hard to get running. Tho with distributions such as k3s its a bit easier to get started. (Which I'd recommend for Raspberry pi based clusters)
'Supp, Fam? 😃 Great video and a cool new product. Thanks for the introduction
This is neat, but why use a 2u enclosure instead of a MiniITX case, and just putting that on your rack? Surely you could fit everything you beed in there, unless you're planning on adding in more cluster boards in the future?
It will still take 2 units, might or might not have fan mounts, and won't look as neat.
5:51 DAMNNN i miss Papa Frankku
perfect for erlang/elixir developers 🙂
Wasn't the server rack in the background all along? An intentional easter egg?
Huh...
It has two SATA ports, so I could use this as a replacement board for my NAS which runs on a low powered N3150 i-C.
Maybe I pick one of those up once getting CM4 boards doesn't require me to scout on rpifinder all the time.
Huh…
In all seriousness, better get yourself a mini PC that runs an Intel Jasper Lake CPU… This Turing Pi setup makes sense only when you have some accessible Pis.
5:51 LOL @ That face.
Do you need a first born? And are you willing to trade in three of the CM4s? (ok, I know crazy. One CM4)
There's Raspberry Pis at the Houston Microcenter if you're in TX.
can you do a tutorial on that smart home thing?
Does the Pi Compute Module 4 have any advantages over Turing RK1 compute modules?
We need more content like this! High quality videos, entertaining to watch, information rich..
Hey Wolfgang! FYI the Mastodon link in the description looks broken to me
Thanks, fixed
As of td in 2022.....those 4 pi's will cost you around $500 plus! Not to mention you have to buy the bored and SD cards, fans and/or heat sinks. Prob cost you around $700 and up for everything! Or you can buy a budget PC or laptop for around $300 give or take with wayyyyy more performance!
But also more power consumption, right? Over how much time do the 4 Pi's earn back the price difference in power savings?
I've mentioned it in the video as well. Hopefully the prices will go back to 'normal' soon, but yes, in the current situation it's cheaper to buy a handful of x86 thin clients instead
resistor to put 5V down to 3,3V
For what do u use MikroTik? Cheers from the Patagonia, Argentina.
Overpowering the LED is not that bad... Worst thing that happens is, that it turns into a LER (Light emitting Resistor)
With the beard he is like thor LOL
You can go low as 3/5 watt with an x86 system without problem. My NAS with a G5400 and it's around 10 watt idling, probably much lower without hdds. So, nothing that special. This setup have sense just to learn how cluster work and do experiment, i would use a system like that just for power saving situation.
I backed this, waiting for my invitation to the "survey" so I can give them my shipping details... any day now... hehehe
I see that the ConBee II stick is inside your enclosure, do you have any issues with connectivity or does it work fine?
I've had some issues with it initially, but it's been running smoothly now that I'm using it with a USB 2.0 extension
Pi is cool, but ill stick to x86 still, i can't stand sacrificing a proper x86 motherboard features.
Which spec CM4 are you using in this video?
Looking Good WolfGang!
Что-то странное, видео стали выходить слишком часто
I'm curious if there would be any chance of using extension cables or right angle brackets for the compute modules to get the board flatter and able to fit in a smaller case. it's kind of a shame it ends up being so tall when it could be so much more compact. like I also wonder if they could've used something SODIMM-esque to enable the compute modules to slot in and then be laid almost flat
I thought about it too, but that would probably make cooling more difficult
ha! "sup fam" nice
Please make a Video about the Jetson Nano and Plex, I'd love to see that
Sorry, but do you happen to know how to type pipe ( | ) & backslash ( \ ) on the HHK Professional Classic keyboard? I realise this is a tad off-topic Q to ask here, but I've followed a previous video of yours where you (silently) install Gentoo Linux using this very same keyboard. It's bloody bugging me how to get the HHK to type these two, both of which can be used in the terminal ("Happy Hacking"? I think not). If you happen to know...most grateful in advance. Cheers (PS. No problems with anything else with this keyboard...bloody awkward nuisance with 'pipe' & 'backslash' though.)
Yes, it's the second from the last key in the top row (the one that has "Ins" on it). That being said, I'm using the US layout, so it might be different for you if you're on the UK layout.
@@WolfgangsChannel Oh thank you so much! There is only one keyboard layout as far as HHK is concerned: the US keyboard layout -- wherever one buys it. It's only available as that. I'll have a go. Many thanks.
@@WolfgangsChannel In case you find you need yourself the backslash ( \ ) & pipe ( | ) symbols for scripting, compiling, programing, CLI on the HHK keyboard Professional Classic (US layout). Right Alt + key showing dash ( - ) = \
And Right Alt + key showing tilde ( ~ ) = |
Hope this makes sense. Exactly the same combinations produce backslash ( \ ) & pipe ( | ) on System76 LAUNCH's mechanical keyboard. Seems this is how you get backslash & pipe on US layout keyboards altogether. Cheers
Awesome content as usual :)
ok thx!!!
Wolfgang, would it be possible for you to do a video in which you show how a Raspberry Pi can host a web server and an email server?
Probably just get a B450 ITX ($90), throw in a used Ryzen 7 3700X 8C16T ($100 at 65W), 32GB of 3200MHz ram ($100), and throw in a GT 710 or 1030 or rx 550 for basic graphics ($100). Total for around $500. You can run 4 to 8 VMs with CPU clock speeds at 4.1 GHz.
Plus, no shortages of affordable Ryzen 7's
You'll also need a power supply ($80-100), an SSD ($30-70) and at least some kind of a case or an open test bench to house the components in ($20-100).
But the biggest issue is the power consumption. For Ryzen systems the idle power consumption can be anywhere from 40 all the way to 100W, which is 4-10 times higher than the Turing Pi. When it comes to the power consumption under load, Ryzen 3700x is only 65W on paper, but with the Core Performance Boost enabled the whole system can draw as much as 100-160W (4-6x higher).
It's not surprising, considering the huge performance difference, but it just makes no sense to suggest a Ryzen system as an alternative to a Raspberry Pi cluster - they're in completely different 'weight classes'.
@@WolfgangsChannel If power consumption is a big deal for the purpose then one could still go with a 3700X, undervolting and setting a lower TDP is just as difficult as turning on PBO. Basic PC components are easily more available. More performance per investment dollar. Different weight class but availability determines routes.
Power consumption is about to become 'a big deal' for everyone, at least here in Europe. It would be great if you could "undervolt" and "underclock" x86 components to reach the Raspberry Pi numbers, but at least with Ryzen CPUs, the idle numbers are very high.
It's definitely possible to build an x86 machine that is close to RPi in terms of power efficiency, but definitely not Ryzen-based.
Too bad we will never again see compute module 4's back in the market
How did you run WinBox from mac?
github.com/nrlquaker/winbox-mac
Cool but sooner or later you will learn that PIs suck on anything crypto since they don't have dedicated AES chips. So running lots of TLS is a no go.
Could you show an article that elaborates on this? I've never heard of this complaint before.
Low-power is tempting, but these days' Pi's are so expensive, so it does not seem worth it, at least where I live. I just checked the price, and CM4 2GB is about 100 USD here. My home server is using an old quad-core 8-thread Xeon (that cost about 230 USD when I bought new) with two SSD's and two 3.5" spinning disks. On idle, it consumes about 30 Watts (without the spinning disks, 20 Watt), and the power consumption goes up to 50 or 60 Watts, if I do something that uses CPU, but mostly it stays idle. The CPU power is more than I need, but I thought about replacing the hardware with modern low-power devices like Pi's, but it would take several years, if not a decade, to recover the cost of new hardware from saving measly few dollars of electricity a month.
my intel nuc with proxmox and few LXC takes 6,5W :)
That's impressive!
@@WolfgangsChannel i3 5th gen, 12GB RAM, 512SSD :) okey he peaks to 7,4W but more time he goes around 6,5W :) cheers!
Hey I am currently selling my Dell XPS 9560 and saw a ThinkPad T480s I am selling it because I can't use that horrible keyboard anymore. Would you recommend a T480s for 369€ ?
How many times in 3 years do you need to enter the Bios on a Server? I installed ESXi on it and my uptimes are > 200 days (unless intel sucks again with a microcode update). But that requires zero Bios access... Please enlighten me.
Not that often once everything is dialed in. But it really helps with diagnosing network or boot issues. It's one of those things that you don't need very often, but when you do, you're glad it's there
Pi4s 8gb i got for around 60€ last year now they are 170€...
it would be cool if you did a pikvm video
respect
May be better to just get a Mac mini and install linux on it. Its low power draw and ample power for all the stuff you are doing .... or am I wrong?
The M1 Mac Mini costs $900+
but why? 3 rasbery pi is more expensive than servomotherboard or normal amd motherboard.
it makes sense for small easy to run critical stuff on seperate rpis like dns and home automation
What's the name of that mini itx case?
Emko EM-150
mini-case.com/p/emko-steelcase-em-150-m-itx
i saw george hotz selling these nvidia devkits for $100 a pop in his garage
Never seen WinBox before.
Would you drop your DIY Nas server for this Turing pi ?
Definitely not - TPi 2 doesn't have enough expandability for me. I need at least a PCIe x4 for my 10Gig network card, 8 SATA ports and a couple of NVMe ports
Madness. 4rpi. Just buy 1 minipc with soc Intel silver cpu. 8watt idle and much more performance than you cluster
But can it run Crysis?
Hehe
Is it CRS326-24G-2S?)
It is!
It's funny how rpi foundation started with their lofty "mission", and now they won't even spit at you unless you buy in bulk.
Too much expensive. I have a HP Prodesk mini PC 6700t with 16G ram 128 GB ssd for 250 euro and a HP Elitedesk mini PC 4785t 8G ram 128 GB ssd for 200 euro that can do the same if not more.
Don t recomand a PI for a server .I did in the past and it has low speed .I am using 2 Pi s for samba share with static ip s ,on my home and one running pimusicbox.If you wanna speed ,skip it
How far in the past?
Pi 4 is way faster than Pi 3 both in terms of processing power and networking.
Obviously you won't be encoding RAW 8K footage on it or using it as a render farm, but it has its uses
Why not just 3D print a case for it?
I don't have a 3D printer and a quote for 3D printing a part that size would be more expensive than buying a used rack enclosure
Ah true. Guess I was going for customizability here, since 3D printing a case would make sure to fit all the ports, outlets to the original board size. But alas, metal is cheaper than plastic, who knew!
There's a 3D-printable rear I/O shield for the board, but I think I'll just leave it like that for better airflow
This thing has been delayed so many times
Kindly Make a video trafiek Controller
0:01 and that's how we know you're not german...
Busted 🫢
sorry but a clusterboard is a single point of failure.
I lost at 2:02
You already look like you're in your late 30s
If you're going to put your face on the thumbnail, could you look a bit less depressed? It feels like someone's holding you hostage and forcing you to make videos. If that's the case, please blink three times at the beginning of the next video and we'll call for help. That aside, good content!
I would love to 😭 But every time I film a video, I forget to do a "thumbnail face". So I have to pick a frame from the actual video where my face looks the least stupid, and in this case, that's the frame
@@WolfgangsChannel MMMokay fine. Or is that something the people keeping you hostage told you to say?
what is life
Power efficiency??? What a bs, dude. First, you are NOT going to run it from a battery. Secondly, just try to measure a wattage of some modern 8-cores Intel CPU and your construction. If you’ll save for a can of beer after a month, I’ll be happy.
It takes 5 seconds to disprove your point by using Google.
Let's take Intel i5-12600 as an example. Typical TDP: 65W, TDP up: 117W. That's 4 times higher than the Turing Pi, and with current energy prices that are bound to get worse, your wallet will definitely feel the difference.
From a review:
"With these processors now fabbed at 10nm, you may see some interesting energy efficiency; we expected to drop dead low IDLE energy levels due to the E-cores, but the system comes back at 70~80 Watts power draw in IDLE"
@@WolfgangsChannel Exactly. 50c per day a difference. I'm not sure about a can, but you can purchase a bottle of Slovak beer here for 45c -)
PS Oh! We have electricity for 15c here, not for 25 as I calculated. So, two days for the beer.
Pies are for learning. To test an orchestration engine for cheap. I think nobody suppose to use them in a real cluster.
Think months and years of continuous use. Even with relatively cheap electricity (15c/kWh), you're looking at a 6€ cost increase per month and a 92€ cost increase per year.
This also scales with electricity prices, for example with 35c/kWh (German prices), you'll be spending extra €14 per month, and a whopping 172€ more per year.
Pis are a great and a cost-effective way to run non-resource-intensive applications. And if we're talking serious clustering applications, you'll need much beefier and more professional and expensive hardware than just a consumer-grade Intel CPU. At which point you're looking at three-digit power consumption and $10000+ upfront hardware costs.
all, all allll pi goes to business, like 99,999% there is no true shortage just all goes to busines not diy people - thats why this platfor should be ban from people thinking
use 20$ thin client, low power, ssd ports, pi is just stupid to sell everything to business, this is the end of platform for me, stupid prices, stupid behawior, no way i trust them in future
I don't know how far you've watched the video, but I had the same thoughts 5:06
@@WolfgangsChannel i missed that sorry :) i stoped and start to seek this kvm, than i see price ;)
@@WolfgangsChannel do you know any comparable replacement ?
Not really, unfortunately. Other SBCs end up just becoming abandonware as soon as the next version comes out.
📚 Greatest uninspired episode. It went on
Instead of having to use overpriced and underpowered RPis in this clusterboard, is it possible to use lower cost and available SBCs like those from Odroid, Orange Pi, etc.?
Either event is 📇 tame. A familiar sight
rpilocator.com/
That was 🔍 a drab backlash. A typical sight