The Terrifying Roblox Horror Difference From 2013 To Now

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
  • today i'm playing a roblox horror game from 2013
    it's crazy how much has changed over the years..
    music used in this video: pastebin.com/7...
    #robloxgames #robloxhorror
    my socials:
    ᛜ twitter: / ivebeenstung
    ᛜ roblox: www.roblox.com...
    ᛜ twitch: / stingged
    ᛜ second channel: / @stingtwo

ความคิดเห็น • 380

  • @stinged
    @stinged  ปีที่แล้ว +229

    for anyone that's asking, the second game is called "CHAIN"
    www.roblox.com/games/10204250851

    • @theguywhohashorriblelogic4589
      @theguywhohashorriblelogic4589 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you so much

    • @Rudniken
      @Rudniken ปีที่แล้ว

      when i was playing there was no gore hm

    • @Duhman2
      @Duhman2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Papi chan

    • @royal4908
      @royal4908 ปีที่แล้ว

      YO I USED TO PLAY THIS BLOOD MARY GAME ALSO

    • @s1storm
      @s1storm ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@royal4908 cool?? Ig?💀

  • @GoofyKitty1
    @GoofyKitty1 ปีที่แล้ว +1074

    Nostalgia it brings back to people remembering what roblox games were like back then.

    • @artlists
      @artlists ปีที่แล้ว +4

      the only nostalgia you guys have are from roblox istg

    • @solitaryopm
      @solitaryopm ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@artlists or it’s just our childhood i still have memories from old video games but most of it is roblox

    • @pasatebo
      @pasatebo ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@artlistsfor me personally its tf2 as well

    • @B0bby_V
      @B0bby_V ปีที่แล้ว

      blehhh!!! fake emotion!!!!

    • @car9643
      @car9643 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@Jj Ko 781 minecraft is kinda good meh but roblow kis better

  • @solitaryopm
    @solitaryopm ปีที่แล้ว +863

    back when life was simple.

    • @nemoeditz69420
      @nemoeditz69420 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      For you not for old people

    • @MansurYT69
      @MansurYT69 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      Dude when I was a kid back then when I played classic horror games I’d always close my eyes and lower my volume when ever I go in a vent of go in a door because just a image pop up and sounds on my screen made me jumpscared like a cannon fired me

    • @heangtsh3807
      @heangtsh3807 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@nemoeditz69420 We are all getting old

    • @Bloodhound789
      @Bloodhound789 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@heangtsh3807he ain’t getting old he got demon slayer on his pfp he probably dumber than a box of rocks

    • @Helloooooo487
      @Helloooooo487 ปีที่แล้ว

      We all have to get old why would be having so much unrealistic stuff gore now im kinda more into this new gore than before because the gore was just decals but now the gore is actually realistic

  • @Redfield2008
    @Redfield2008 ปีที่แล้ว +372

    I like how Roblox Chain actually has some really cool reference and inspirations in it. Like the pickup sounds are literally from Silent Hill 2 and the feel is a lot like outlast in a way honestly

    • @sparrowanon
      @sparrowanon ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Most of the props and in-game textures were imported from Half-Life 2, and the monster's chase sounds were taken from Sawrunner, a boss in a horror game called Cry of Fear

    • @chesstant8482
      @chesstant8482 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The killer also uses the scream from Cry Of Fear

    • @joshuamalte6762
      @joshuamalte6762 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      And the some of the models are from Half-Life 2, a half-FPS-half-scary type of game, but the "scary" is because stuff's destroyed and all of the mutilated people which are now zombies because of the aliens and everything.

    • @joshuamalte6762
      @joshuamalte6762 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@sparrowanon Oh, didn't expect another fan here. Sorry for accidentally copying your comment!

    • @sparrowanon
      @sparrowanon ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@joshuamalte6762 No worries.

  • @solom6n
    @solom6n ปีที่แล้ว +302

    sting, you got a crazy case of the babygirl laugh ngl

    • @stinged
      @stinged  ปีที่แล้ว +80

      NAHHH 💀

    • @solom6n
      @solom6n ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@stinged IT'S TRUE BRO

    • @maxwell_isnt_here
      @maxwell_isnt_here ปีที่แล้ว +3

      LMFAOOOOO

    • @iloveniki2642
      @iloveniki2642 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@solom6n FRR THO

    • @katelyn4109
      @katelyn4109 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      IM NOT GONNA LIE.. VERY TRUE

  • @Hollarite
    @Hollarite ปีที่แล้ว +80

    God, that game was also one of the first horror games I've played as a kid. Why does time have to fly so fast..?

    • @lunaplays2960
      @lunaplays2960 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      That game was also my first horror game I played, i completely fotgot about it untill watching this video.

  • @pakjemelk
    @pakjemelk ปีที่แล้ว +53

    mimic was way better when it came first out. the revamp with all the new textures were weird. they removed the dark, so its WAY less scary.

    • @heavecz
      @heavecz ปีที่แล้ว +2

      agree

    • @mjserrano32
      @mjserrano32 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Hey, at least the water section is good from I think jealousy, makes me feel nice. But that’s not the point since it’s horror, so yeah

  • @kenonix_1325
    @kenonix_1325 ปีที่แล้ว +133

    Once again another very entertaining video, congradulations on reaching 20k !

    • @stinged
      @stinged  ปีที่แล้ว +8

      thank you!

    • @GordonFreemanTR
      @GordonFreemanTR ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@stinged Sting I'm a big fan if I donate u 205 robux on pls donate can u friend me? (yes or no)?

    • @swaggyman2445
      @swaggyman2445 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@stinged what's the 2023 one called

    • @sparklingchoice
      @sparklingchoice ปีที่แล้ว

      @@swaggyman2445 Chain!

    • @swaggyman2445
      @swaggyman2445 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@sparklingchoice thanks

  • @veganmocha
    @veganmocha ปีที่แล้ว +12

    i remember when it was so hard to find genuinely scary games, ones that were actually good. now it's all i see on my front page, and i love it.

    • @cinnamoroIIz
      @cinnamoroIIz ปีที่แล้ว

      same, i only play roblox still just for the horror games so i love to see the genre thriving.

  • @hikkiksunny
    @hikkiksunny ปีที่แล้ว +90

    "It actually works!" very amazing last words right there, sting. And the way you played anuc music right off the bat made it more hilarious. LOL
    I started to play Roblox around 7 years ago, I remember at that time I was seriously scared to play horror games, even low quality ones. 💀 and here I am at this time, playing high quality horror games and not screaming everytime I get jumpscared like sting. What a journey!

  • @el_blanco_loco
    @el_blanco_loco ปีที่แล้ว +44

    2011-2013, the good days of Roblox.

    • @Duhman2
      @Duhman2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Fr

    • @ritzbitz5619
      @ritzbitz5619 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      🫡

    • @Limbo5050
      @Limbo5050 ปีที่แล้ว

      Mlg Illuminati dorito doge

  • @divine-s
    @divine-s ปีที่แล้ว +7

    The nostalgia of just playing games like, The Maze, the Horror Elevator, those stories where you just walk through them….etc. it’s sad to see no one plays them any more, but it was nice to play while it lasted.

    • @Naruhiu
      @Naruhiu ปีที่แล้ว +1

      People still play maze, me and a buncha my friends play it atleast once a week still

  • @cloudychan3321
    @cloudychan3321 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    The horror games that are made/updated these days are so good

  • @lbskysword9545
    @lbskysword9545 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I remember playing the Bloody Mary game when I played back in 2015 with a friend… and it terrified the heck out of me, good times!

  • @sxftpixie
    @sxftpixie ปีที่แล้ว +12

    i’m really happy about and proud of the GIANT bump in animation skill that has occurred in the roblox community. devs can make such high-quality, beautiful maps and models for horror games and games overall, and it’s just amazing. though, old horror games have much more of a creepy, nostalgic feel to them

  • @Skeleton341
    @Skeleton341 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    my face: 🙂
    My soul: 💥
    you: 💪🏿🗿🤟🏿

  • @NIGHTY-NITE
    @NIGHTY-NITE ปีที่แล้ว +3

    theres still something oddly terrifying about old horror games

  • @CrazyKyogre
    @CrazyKyogre ปีที่แล้ว +15

    A remember a Roblox horror game from 2014 called RED44_SATYR44 which for some reason I could only beat on my alt account but in my main the teleporters don’t work. The game is really good though

    • @poopman6944
      @poopman6944 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      thought i was the only one who remembered that. was definitely one of the best of its time

    • @CrazyKyogre
      @CrazyKyogre ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@poopman6944 It’s still good today after I replayed it, it aged a lot though

    • @poopman6944
      @poopman6944 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CrazyKyogre last time i checked it didnt work, is it fixed or something?

    • @CrazyKyogre
      @CrazyKyogre ปีที่แล้ว

      @@poopman6944 It doesn't work on one of my accounts but the other account it worked fine and I beat it.

    • @poopman6944
      @poopman6944 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CrazyKyogre thats odd. ill have to try it on a different account then

  • @walwal6449
    @walwal6449 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    my 1st one (as a 2013 player) was either the bloody mary or that one where a person gets impaled?? like idk what to call it, it was like a stage?? and suddenly everyone gets killed and there's blood splatter everywhere lol
    and you have to gi through different stages with monsters chasing you.... like this was a somewhat popular horror game back then so someone shoul know it right??

    • @somnist.
      @somnist. ปีที่แล้ว

      the only old game I can think of is hospital nightmare 3 (made in 2011)

    • @walwal6449
      @walwal6449 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@somnist. yess it's this one lol
      it wasnt as gruesome as i thought it was looking at it now....

  • @corndogonasticc
    @corndogonasticc ปีที่แล้ว +27

    I remember when horror stories type of game where you walk around while the story unfolds each panel, were the peak st the time. Child me was so scared i never went forward with the story when it gets scary. i was forced to settle in watching my favorite youtubers play it instead so i have someone with me lol.

  • @coolnight75
    @coolnight75 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    Nice video dude. Mine personally is probably Hospital Nightmare 3. I remember playing it with a friend and it was a blast! Once again, I hope you play "Fragmented Horrors" soon. I wish I could link it but TH-cam moment :( Anyway, keep up the content dude!

  • @hollysomething4438
    @hollysomething4438 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You just unlocked a childhood memory from me! Jesus I used to play the bloody mary game as well when I was a kid, thank you for the video man, keep going!

  • @0ceanicDesire
    @0ceanicDesire ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Remember when “The Rake” was the all time scary game for so long, and somewhat still is today?

    • @defiant2
      @defiant2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      lmao remember trapping the rake with a lot of bear traps

    • @0ceanicDesire
      @0ceanicDesire ปีที่แล้ว

      @@defiant2 Right, and just straight up buying points was cheap. As well as abusing the Eerie

  • @jolinlucas5703
    @jolinlucas5703 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    Back when people was peaceful in the old days I wish I could bring it back

  • @userxaaaa
    @userxaaaa ปีที่แล้ว +3

    your channels growing more nd more sting! 👏

  • @vayr880
    @vayr880 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Wasn't there a game back in the day, like 2013 or so, where it was like a low quality roblox horror game in a hospital lmao. I have some memories about it but I don't remember the name.

  • @milos_sm09
    @milos_sm09 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bro the nostalgia, i started roblox in 2013 and this gave me memories.

  • @tyge4924
    @tyge4924 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    wow cool start intro with animaton i really like it. Maaaaaan i have played only the cool horror games not the 2013 and i see that a lot of people have good nostalgia about the old games.

  • @Bean0cean
    @Bean0cean ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Omg I remember when old horror maps used to use the rusty material for corpses.

  • @oaysimprosie2445
    @oaysimprosie2445 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    just found your channel by accident a few weeks ago, now i'm your big supporter

  • @5uperM
    @5uperM ปีที่แล้ว

    4:49 I did not expect Cry of Fear sound effects in that chase.

  • @LeF3
    @LeF3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    i just spend all my night to watch your video.. definitely insane 10/10

  • @Lkadow_dela
    @Lkadow_dela ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i miss granny its so nostalgic and old horror games to i played granny roblox in 2019 i missed it so much

  • @Stefi.s-Animations._
    @Stefi.s-Animations._ 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    "Bloody Mary, Bloody Mary, Bloddy Mary"
    " H e l l o"
    Had me rolling on the floor

  • @OneStrikes
    @OneStrikes ปีที่แล้ว +2

    i love how sting is so chill

  • @saestylez
    @saestylez ปีที่แล้ว

    i used to love the bloody mary game when i was a kid i'm SO GLAD you picked this game

  • @sydney9614
    @sydney9614 ปีที่แล้ว

    i remember camping with killers and survive area 51 with killers as well as the bloody mary game. also this one game mightve been bloody mary related but you spawned in a hospital

  • @Emiliano-jg2bu
    @Emiliano-jg2bu ปีที่แล้ว +1

    man, I just found your channel and I just want to say. I love it, man I love ur content and keep it up! I’m going to look out for you next videos.

  • @DaikiCalla
    @DaikiCalla ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I remember when bloody mary had over 10K+ people playing it and you would hear people in chat going "this game is scary"

  • @rv0j_
    @rv0j_ ปีที่แล้ว +1

    BEST ROBLOX HORROR VIDEO EVER (thx u for adding me on Roblox) and congratulations on 20k subs

  • @Clouds563
    @Clouds563 ปีที่แล้ว

    i remember that horror game "chain" when my friends found it and suggested we played it together so we did, and i was surprised to how we joined the game with the dev in it

  • @the_mind_electric
    @the_mind_electric ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember playing that bloody mary game, im pretty sure it was like 2018-2019, it feels so nostalgic now

  • @Nov-Alle
    @Nov-Alle ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember the bloody mary game and playing it and getting a little spooked but barely any progress. It's very different now, the second game is more high quality and stuff

  • @ScotchOffTheRocks
    @ScotchOffTheRocks ปีที่แล้ว

    the ending was so beautiful !!! made me cry 😭😭

  • @k1_.xr1
    @k1_.xr1 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i also played that bloody mary game back in 2018

  • @Melovi
    @Melovi ปีที่แล้ว

    playing this on my friends family computer in the basement, thanks for reminding me of this memory I forgot I had

  • @davinrort2nd
    @davinrort2nd ปีที่แล้ว

    my most notable roblox horror game would probably the mirror
    its where you go insane while looking at the mirror in the dark (and then die)

  • @Robwastaken
    @Robwastaken ปีที่แล้ว

    Honestly I think 2016-2018 was the peak of roblox horror games because graphically it was okay but on scaryness absolutely terrifying.

  • @Sawrunner.
    @Sawrunner. ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Didn't expect to hear the Sawrunner scream *AND* chase theme in this, but, okay...

  • @IPlayCooler
    @IPlayCooler ปีที่แล้ว

    idk why but him putting his roblox character on a chair talking to you is so creative to me

  • @thefoundation3489
    @thefoundation3489 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    4:06 Just succeed the skill check ya silly goose

  • @OJWizzard
    @OJWizzard ปีที่แล้ว

    Bloody Mary had me so nostalgic and it reminded me of a game where it starts in a hospital and you go to the bathroom leave and then everyone’s dead
    Play lost rooms it’s a really good horror game

  • @fuying5620
    @fuying5620 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Don't move
    Me:dancing

  • @JaxelPhonk
    @JaxelPhonk ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember I always played "the darkness 2" in like 2014 and goddamn i had fun. Sad to see that nobody is playing it today :(

  • @thesushimess
    @thesushimess ปีที่แล้ว

    I forgot about that first game, gosh brings back a lot of memories

  • @saaaaaaaaar
    @saaaaaaaaar ปีที่แล้ว

    i can still remember playing the bloody mary game back in the day, those good memories

  • @terenceTuiln
    @terenceTuiln 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    0:59 i played that game back in 2016 with my brother

  • @ritzbitz5619
    @ritzbitz5619 ปีที่แล้ว

    i remember some mlp horror game n flutter shy would chase u with a chainsaw

  • @yanelfmeow
    @yanelfmeow ปีที่แล้ว +1

    .hey,i noticed something
    .that's a little thing,but-
    Well,do you remember game "raise a granny"?
    .i noticed that granny often goes near the window,so,i decided to look whats there
    .there was nothing at first,but later few minutes,there appeared monster
    .at first,you can think what that's just a tree,but you can actualy see,how that thing is kinda,waving to you?
    (I saw him in window what's near to computer)

  • @jeremymichaud2019
    @jeremymichaud2019 ปีที่แล้ว

    i remember the bloody mary and there was another old horror game where there were many rooms with scary stories

  • @dahblox69
    @dahblox69 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love the TBOI music though

  • @SHESA_PUNKROCKER
    @SHESA_PUNKROCKER ปีที่แล้ว

    I still remember the older ones like yesterday

  • @LuigiRulez2022Official
    @LuigiRulez2022Official ปีที่แล้ว +1

    what are all the games called that you played cuz i want to play some of them

  • @Mewing122
    @Mewing122 ปีที่แล้ว

    “Ahhhhhhhh”got me dying on the floor 💀

  • @h1lf0rd23
    @h1lf0rd23 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yo, the first game (Bloody Mary) is actually made by another guy from 2009 called HauntedUSA! Good video!

  • @JoesNoms
    @JoesNoms 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    um actually terrifying means something closer to feeling someone breathing over your shoulder then turning around and seeing nothing there, horror means more of the disgust as a reaction to whatever is grotesque thing is being seen and seeing as how you are experiencing these horror games, you are horrified at the difference

  • @deathnarwa
    @deathnarwa ปีที่แล้ว

    you just got a new sub !!

  • @k1t7ey49
    @k1t7ey49 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    From what pc do u play?

  • @Iunarski
    @Iunarski ปีที่แล้ว

    it's really so insane how much roblox has improved

  • @k0waibunni
    @k0waibunni ปีที่แล้ว

    i miss hospital nightmare and a night at the hotel so much

  • @kafs6838
    @kafs6838 ปีที่แล้ว

    I was not expecting the vietnamese at the endd is that you singing LMfAOO

  • @zapyaboi
    @zapyaboi ปีที่แล้ว

    2013 Roblox horror games litterally had blood everywhere in the start. And a random killer like Jeff the killer or bloody mary

  • @odside.
    @odside. ปีที่แล้ว

    Got an insane amount of nostalgia from that bloody mary game, woah

  • @Uncommonly.
    @Uncommonly. ปีที่แล้ว +1

    3:13 btw you had to jump while talking to him to trigger another part of the game
    the thing is that this stolen version as with og version are broken so you cant do that unless you will play the fixed version

  • @AngelsInRaincoats
    @AngelsInRaincoats ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Day 1 of asking Sting to play Roses on roblox (It's pretty good it has good graphics too)

  • @monkey2202
    @monkey2202 ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember the bloody mary game when I was younger, it was the best imo back in the day LOL.

  • @frostbyte.
    @frostbyte. ปีที่แล้ว

    For chain the sound when your getting chased is from cry of fear and its a pretty fun game :)

  • @rolandkarimdesucatan5118
    @rolandkarimdesucatan5118 ปีที่แล้ว

    Behind the wall of simulator and anime games are the treasures like this

  • @swingingduck8960
    @swingingduck8960 ปีที่แล้ว

    WOW the Bloody Mary game was a forgotten until now😭😭

  • @Exotic_bite
    @Exotic_bite ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Life when even games like these were scary

  • @Boo-xi3ds
    @Boo-xi3ds ปีที่แล้ว

    i didn't know thata roblox was chill about gore now, looks like im still stuck in the past

  • @0Grasses
    @0Grasses ปีที่แล้ว

    "It works"
    Top ten sentences before something stops working

  • @alinahmd64
    @alinahmd64 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    i remember playing bloody mary and thinking it was the scariest roblox game ever, how times have changed.

  • @unholy_person
    @unholy_person ปีที่แล้ว

    "then why did you click on this video?"
    blood in roblox

  • @_Wah
    @_Wah ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Holy crap, you have 23.3k already!?!
    How did- wh- wha...

  • @shotspurfect6738
    @shotspurfect6738 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I still remember playing this bloody mary game and when it was popular haha

  • @connect4andcj
    @connect4andcj ปีที่แล้ว

    I am working on The Nights At Zemmy's and it's supposed to be a mix of old and new roblox with the map being like it's from old roblox but the mechanics are from today

  • @CatManReal
    @CatManReal ปีที่แล้ว

    I was watching this video at the second game and my cat jumped on my chair and I nearly died. The worst part is that it is not dark out, the video was not in full screen, and I knew my cat was in my room.

  • @WildVandenberg
    @WildVandenberg ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great video today

  • @MarcyMus
    @MarcyMus ปีที่แล้ว

    Try roses! It a old horror game but I think it still looks awesome. Like it was ahead of it’s time and it sad nobody knows about it!

  • @antoniomantovani4983
    @antoniomantovani4983 ปีที่แล้ว

    The fact that my power went out as soon as this part came 4:08

  • @randomguy_justpassinthroug7885
    @randomguy_justpassinthroug7885 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    omg the nostalgia

  • @sepiaandcats
    @sepiaandcats ปีที่แล้ว

    Freddy Fazbear + granny in the back during the intro 😭

  • @Heartherss
    @Heartherss ปีที่แล้ว

    I think that the horror games of the past were scarier than the ones now, rather, they made the player more tense

  • @harron_oc_cho
    @harron_oc_cho ปีที่แล้ว +1

    damn the outro song is so funny i love it :))

  • @koleratliff4527
    @koleratliff4527 ปีที่แล้ว

    dude that bloody mary game used to go SO HARD

  • @FynnDaFoxKitty
    @FynnDaFoxKitty ปีที่แล้ว +1

    tip: in chain, to repair the gens, you need to hold the E key bind and not just tap it once and release it.

    • @BlueWolfRoblox
      @BlueWolfRoblox ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What's the game's name? pleeeeeeeeease tell me

    • @FynnDaFoxKitty
      @FynnDaFoxKitty ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BlueWolfRoblox its called "CHAIN"

    • @BlueWolfRoblox
      @BlueWolfRoblox ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@FynnDaFoxKitty ty

    • @FynnDaFoxKitty
      @FynnDaFoxKitty ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BlueWolfRoblox no problem

  • @mrshrambles3398
    @mrshrambles3398 ปีที่แล้ว

    People are getting really creative ngl. They can replicate the real world sometimes

  • @ZackPlayz23
    @ZackPlayz23 ปีที่แล้ว

    the first roblox game is when i was born dat is crazy, july 7 2013 like what the fu-

  • @BabbelH
    @BabbelH ปีที่แล้ว

    ive been in the roblox community for over 13 years but im still im not sure if they have ever made a game inspired on Getting over it...

    • @onion5860
      @onion5860 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think they have, it's called A Ball and Axe or something like that