(Old version) - Self inflicted wounds and the death of Colonel Ford
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- The updated version of this video can be seen here. • Self inflicted wounds ...
In December 1944, the Puerto Rican 65th Infantry Regiment, a unit trained in tropical climates, was put in the lines in the Peira Cava region, in the freezing French Alps, facing the German Eastern Front veterans of Grenadier Regiment 107. The discovery of a helmet bearing the insignia of the 65th Infantry near Peira Cava decades later prompted an investigation into the unit's history while in the Alps. It turns out that some soldiers of the unit suffered from low moral due to the severe cold and several soldiers wounded themselves on purpose to get out of the lines. Colonel George A. Ford, a West Pointer with no infantry experience, was put in command of the regiment the day after it reached the front lines. He quickly expressed discontent with the unit and was shot and reported missing in action in strange circumstances on January 4th 1945, while leading an Intelligence and Reconnaissance patrol to the German lines. Colonel Ford's family had suspicions he may even have been shot by his own men. The video presents the relevant facts and period documents about the case, and my personal opinion on the circumstances of Colonel Ford's death.
Disclaimer: this video has been attracting more attention than expected and some have understandably found it insulting to the memory of the 65th Infantry Regiment. Please keep in mind this video is only about one specific, brief and unpleasant period in the unit's history. It is not meant to be a history of the 65th Infantry Regiment and should not be understood as such. The actions of a handful of men do not reflect on those of hundreds of others who did their duty faithfully. Please do not confuse statements made by period documents that are shown and read in the video, with my personal opinions about the events. The updated version of this video can be seen here. • Self inflicted wounds ...
The author of this video is always looking for more information and photos about the 65th Infantry in southern France. I can be contacted at jean-loup@gassend.com
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A Crocodile Tear Productions documentary - Story taken from the book: Autopsy of a Battle, the Liberation of the French Riviera. Schiffer. 2014.
Honour role of the 65th Infantry Regiment in the Maritime Alps 1944-1945:
Alcala Ramon 10404241
Cales Quiros Aristides 10403642 Guayanilla (Silver Star)
Collazo Narciso 15.12.1914 10403935
Deliz Arturo O-354178
Ford George A. O-15790
Marrero Villalobos Antonio 1.12.1920 30401408
Martinez Angel G 20024019 Sabana Grande
Nieves-Hernandez Silvestre 31.12.1920 30402665 Naranjito
Rodriguez Tomas 10404420
Rosado-Rivera Agapito 30402960
Sanchez-Sanchez Sergio 30400139 Sabana Grande
Santana Elsie 20024418
Santiago Primitivo 16.11.1916 10403698
World War II - Operation Dragoon - Borinqueneers - Valerosos - Los Borinqueños - 442nd Regimental Combat Team - Nisei - Infanterie Division 34 - Infanterie Regiment 107 - 509th Parachute Infantry Battalion - 517th Parachute Infantry Regiment - West Point - West Pointer - missing in action - killed in action - Captain Daniel B. Logan O-417320 - Sgt Jose R Robles Jr 10401037 - Sgt Gabriel A Hurtado 10401149 - militaria collection - M1 helmet - American helmet - unit insignia - badge - DUI - military collector - camouflaged helmet - camo paint - Colonel Juan César Cordero Dávila - Kurt von Seydlitz - 65th IR - Puerto Rico - Nisei - Cordero the Butcher - Cordero el Carnicero - Malta Cross -Sospel - l'Authion - Moulinet - Turini - col de Braus - Lucéram - col de Turini - Turini Pass - Tête du Pin - grenade - shot in the back - shoot oneself in foot - mutiny - fragging - fragged - low moral - self inflicted injury - self mutilation - disinformation - conspiracy theory - fake news - Olt Ernst Holz - Lt Ernst Holz - Oberleutnant Ernst Holz 8 januar 08.01.19.. - Leutnant Ernst Holz - Grenadier Regiment 107 - Gren.Rgt.107
Gefreiter Höfig
Stabsgefreiter Altpeter
Fwb Georg Rieck 18.11.1916 Ellwangen Jagst
Uffz Martin Janostik 6.3.1912 Breslau
Gefr Hans Jantzen 20.9.1924 Siemersdorf
Lt Walter Schleyer 29.7.1921Frankfurt am Main Huppert ub Bad Schwalbach
Olt Hermann Jürs 13.7.1910 Berlin
Olt Wilhelm Köhler 24.1.1919 Oberdrees Unkel am Rhein
Lt Ludwig Haffner 3.5.1921 Waldhilsbach
Olt Friedrich Paffmann 12.4.1917
Olt Willi Werling 27.3.1920 Lambsheim
Uffz Kurt Schramm 9.8.1913 Hamberg
Uffz Matthias Frank 16.9.1921 Alken
This video has been updated with new information, including from the German side. The updated version can be seen here: m.th-cam.com/video/-9BG_1hJRM0/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUSY29sb25lbCBmb3JkIGRlYXRo
Colonel Ford's grandson also came to visit the site of his death, the video can be seen here: th-cam.com/video/ncOuGu9bO0o/w-d-xo.html
Colonel Ford was my Great Grandfather on my Father’s side. I’ve heard many stories about this encounter, but never so detailed. Thank you very much for your presentation
Hi Michael!
@@marycummings6554 Hi Aunt Mary ❤️
Hi: My uncle was Aristides Cales Quiros who also died that day. He was the chauffer of Coronel Ford and a close person to him. The twelve men in the patrol were loyal to Coronel Ford and they went voluntarily with him. Very sad all of this history.
It is interesting that all the families seem to be meeting here for the first time in 79 years!
Wow this is an amazing thread of comments. IMHO it’s understandable why Col Ford seemed elated to get a command & go into combat. Remember that in December 1944 newspapers were saying that the war against Germany could be ending as soon as New Year’s 1945. In wartime every infantry officer wants to lead his men into battle & in a huge war like WW2 it would be very difficult for an infantry officer to feel like he could’ve done more to help his nation & soldiers in the upcoming victory.
Also, imagine how miserable you’d be if born & raised in a tropical paradise climate like Puerto Rico & then be assigned to an infantry unit crossing the French Alps in -5 degrees. Men in some of those units had not been issued proper cold weather gear & suffered from frostbite while sleeping outdoors for months at a time. So it’s not a matter of the men in Col Ford’s unit not having the courage nor motivation to fight, that kind of cold dehydrates the body & saps all strength especially fast for those who haven’t become acclimated to it.
After typing the above I did a Google search of the “Puerto Rico 65th Infantry WW2” & the Wiki article actually mentions Col Ford! You all have every reason to be proud of the sacrifices made by Col Ford & the men who fought in the 65th Infantry Regiment. Here’s the wiki link too: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/65th_Infantry_Regiment
I can speak from an unconnected story - my Grandad was RAF Groundcrew at foreward temporary strips in North Africa. During the retreats before El Alamein his squadron was pulling back and a very inexperienced desk jockey officer was left to pull out the ground crew by land as they were about to be overrun, but refused to leave as there had been no orders when to. They were armed only with a handful of Italian rifles (barely enough for one between three men) and were not frontline combat troops per se... as in not infantry trained. The Officer got into a confrontation with a flight sergeant over the fact that they should leave and soon, who cocked his rifle and said "strange things can happen sir, casualties of war and all that". He had every intention of shooting the officer if he insisted in making the men stay. As it was he gave in, and armed with their few rifles they got in the truck and left - though the officer again cocked up by directing them TOWARDS the advancing Africa Corps. They were stopped by the rear guard of the Army who said they could stay and fight or turn around. They chose wisely. My Grandad was no coward, he was almost killed trying to rescue a pilot from a downed plane which exploded and blew him off his feet. But facing off Panzer II and IV and seasoned Africa Corps infantry with shared rifles would have been suicide
No nonsense, no click bait, only truth
If only our news media still had that professional philosophy....
As a WW2 enthusiast living in Aix-en-Provence, its always a pleasure to learn more history about my own region. Thank you for your dedicated work Jean-Loup, I will definitly keep an eye on every country-side restaurant and bistro walls !
This gentleman is the perfect example of what I aspire to be. Truly diligent investigative work in which he successfully solves... This is just a hobby for him from what I know but obviously a passionate one. I feel Europeans will never truly forget the calamity brought on by the second World War due to the fact it was a domestic threat on the home continent but all of us Americans across the proverbial pond, have forgotten the severity and importance of it. With all the veterans of this war dwindling away and seem forgotten about, wherever they may be at today. This dude keeps the memory fresh in my mind by consistently producing original, unique and engaging content that you won't find anywhere else. I've watched the old documentary series "Battlefield" on TH-cam so many times and of course who could forget the superb work of Indy & Spartacus over on the Time Ghost Army YT channel. My overly excessive point is; please keep up the fantastic work. What I wouldn't do to get the chance to have me and the ol lady take a trip to visit &, excavate some of the lesser known battlefields in Europe and in all over the former USSR territories where the Germans had engaged in operations. Could you imagine if this guy was accompanying you as a guide? The shit that could learned would be insurmountable. Not to trying to kiss his ass too much and this, of course is all my opinion. Thank you
I’ll never forget the Second World War and how the country’s came together to stop Hitler an all the other mush heads . Or the war in the pacific . It’s to bad that with all the bad things that happened in the war that Stalin didn’t die or get killed by the nazis . It’s 2023 and we are still dealing with one of statins nuts . Why do they want to rule the world ? Maybe our politics are ruled by corporations because I don’t know anyone in the U.S. that hate someone because they live in another country . Putin is a real gas bag . He’s greedy an wants to bring back communist rule in europe an the world with china . The Chinese are taught from birth to hate white ,Americans like Hitler hated the Jews . The Japanese had the same policy . My uncle was killed on or near the last day of the war by having his head cut off . I could of been taught to hate the Japanese but I wasn’t . What happened back then has nothing to do with the millions in Japan now . We all need to stop fighting an respect one another . Mr Putin
My father-in-law was in the 442nd in Italy during this action. He rarely spoke about his experiences unfortunately. We have his war mementos and uniforms. As a family we attended one of the 442nd reunions and it was incredible meeting so many brave men and their families. Never forget.
we do this in Germany also.
I live in Los Angeles and have passed by the Go-for-broke memorial in Little Tokyo many times. Good movie about the 442nd too.
What sort of mementos did he bring back?
@@CrocodileTear German knife and a certain type of flag that begins with N.
Other stuff like a cup and tin plate.
@@leza6288 Interesting. Please hang on to all those things, and remember they are mementoes brought back by a US war veteran. Dont let the current political correctness make you feel ashamed of having them, even the "N flag"
Your investigative skill and ability to consistently produce outstanding videos is remarkable.
You are one of the best documenters of WWII History. Thank you for your dedication and hard
work on behalf of all those who fought and died that they may never be forgotten.
A really excellent professional evaluation of the events surrounding Colonel Ford’s KIA. I can only add that I commanded a Puerto Rico unit and sent them to cold weather NATO exercise in Norway. Few had ever seen snow or ice but they where highly motivated and well lead (being US Marines of course) they excelled in the exercise. In a cold weather environment its all about leadership at the NCO, SNCO and officer level and taking care of the troops. Failure there leads to the sad situation in the 65th-they deserved better. Col Ford was trying to do the right thing by leading from the front. He was a brave man and a good officer. Least we forget
Would the difference be as well as poor leadership, they were unwilling participants in ww2, with only basic training, whereas your NATO troops were well trained volunteers who actively signed up for military service?
@@pit_stop77 Im not sure where “unwilling participants” comes from. Drafted men are never going to be as enthusiastic as volunteers but good leadership goes far in developing Esprit de Corps
@rht715 lots of people were drafted and resented the fact they were fighting someone else's war. They'd be unwilling troops. Some loved it, I'm sure, where I'm saying volunteer troops are all keen and focused and want to be there. Draft or conscription brings a mix of many people together. But hey, it wasn't a nice time for most of them.
Your statement about your guys from Puerto Rico being motivated despite training in a totally alien Norwegian environment bolsters my contention that the 65th Infantry suffered from poor/poorly trained leadership, from the NCOs on up. Most Nisei in the 442nd RCT were from Hawaii or California so those Joes were in a totally different environment as well but they had outstanding leadership and were extremely well trained. More sweat on the training field = less blood on the battlefield.
It's remarkable how you've opened up a page in history and have assessed it so brilliantly.
This is so well researched , analysed, and presented.
Thanks for posting this interesting history. I’ve been in combat during Desert Storm, Afghanistan and Iraq…and the human experience within these conditions is certainly something never forgotten. Great investigation/ story. Salute
I love this channel! I’m a WWII history buff and a critical care paramedic. My love of medicine and fascination with everything WWII are beautifully complimented by your channel! Can’t wait to read your book!
I am the Producer of the PBS documentary film “The Borinqueneers” and author of the illustrated book “The Borinqueneers, A Visual History of the 65th Infantry Regiment” which traced the history of the only Hispanic-segregated unit in U.S. Army history. Although I welcome research which highlights this regiment’s service, I have a number of issues with this video and your research which primarily reports testimonies from continentals and makes insinuations and theories which presents the men of the 65th in a negative light. This supposed non-English regiment was a regular U.S. Army unit commanded predominantly by continental officers, many who spoke Spanish, as well as Puerto Rican officers and NCOs who spoke English. More than 50 nations provided troops during WWII. An article published in 1948 by Brig. Gen. Ralph C. Tobin commander of the 44th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Brigade where the 65th had been assigned to at the Maritime Alps stated “With French, Japanese-American and Puerto Ricans, the Command had all the aspects of an International Brigade”. So what is the point of you stating they were a “non-English speaking” unit? And what does that have to do with what happened to Col. Ford? Already you are insinuating something sinister with this comment. You failed to mention that the unit had come to Europe having had two years of extensive training in Panama, Fort Eustis and North Africa before being assigned to the Maritime Alps. As a consequence, they had been away from their island homeland for two years, and eventually three years by the time the war ended, accumulating more points than most of the other units in Europe. Obviously, they were suffering from low morale stationed in a cold, unfamiliar climate. During WWII this was a common and prevalent problem. Many units suffered high numbers of self-inflicted injuries. They were not the only ones. I’m sorry that I shared my research with you so you could use it against the regiment, particularly when it came to insinuating that Lt. Col. Cordero or the men of the 65th would have participated in a conspiracy to kill their commanding officer. I could go on point-by-point refuting some of your statements but after reading some of the comments here, it would be a waste of time. Many people have already made up their minds. What a shame that these men are no longer here to defend themselves of these accusations of cowardice, incompetence or fragging. The unit suffered 15 Killed in action, 31 non-battle deaths and earned 117 Purple Hearts, 49 Bronze Stars, 3 Silver Stars and 1 Distinguished Service Cross. Twenty-five of the 52 Regimental Commanders of the unit have been West Point graduates.
My grandfather was in the 65th Infantry Regiment during WWI, then it was known as the Puerto Rico Regiment, later renamed the 65th in 1920. He passed away in 1977 at age 86.
For over two years I have struggled to find detailed information on 3/65’s combat chronicle in the Maritime Alps. This explains a lot. Not only were they from the tropics, they had spent a lot of time training for jungle warfare in Central America earlier in the war. There was no reason to send them to the alps.
World War II deeply impacted Puerto Rico and spurred a mass migration to the mainland United States following wars end. Many migrants were veterans or had relatives who served with the 65th in Europe. Most of the guys who went to war with the 65th were uneducated, destitute men with very little economic and social mobility in Puerto Rico. The Army and the war effort were a way out of stagnant poverty. When migrants began to arrive in the mainland after the war they were greeted with nativist xenophobia and labeled as immigrants even though they were American citizens.
Puerto Ricans have struggled a lot since Puerto Rico became a territory of the U.S.
Thank you very, very much for conducting this research and making it available here.
Sincerely,
- a Puerto Rican from Connecticut.
Great video man! I'm a Puertorican myself and collect alot of 65th Infantry Regiment uniforms etc. My grandpa was a Borinqueneer in Korea. And spoke of painting the left side of his helmet with the cross. Always wanted to own a ww2 example like that with it on the front. Glad it's in good hands.
I have never heard of another WWII example existing. How did you feel about this video? I tried to be very fair but I think it reflects poorly on both Col Ford and the Puerto Ricans. But a disfunction occurred and I can't pretend not to see it.
@CrocodileTear I feel like it a was good honest deep dive into the "cowardice" incidents, and overall story of the Borinqueneers in and around Nice. Racism In the army at the time, poor leadership, and a language barrier really affected the Borinqueneers. Leadership is truly important as we know. And the Borinqueneers are a fine example of that. In Korea they had great leadership amongst officers and noncoms, and fought harder than any other Regiment I'd say. Plenty of valor medals awarded to them. Despite the weather being arguably worse for them, then when they were in Para Cava.
@@SimpleHatch Thanks. Had you heard about "incidents" in southern France before? If yes, what did you hear, and from who?
@CrocodileTear in my town where I'm from, Ponce. I've met several elderly gentleman who were Borinqueneers, none during ww2 unfortunately. But two korean war Borinqueneer vets I've met, have flat out admitted they self inflicted wounds on themselves to escape the front. One was in L Company which there was a crazy ordeal that happened with that Co at the end of the war. Alot of elderly Puertoricans, and Puertoricans as a whole have a shared resentment towards the Americans naturally, and personally I've always wondered if some of those incidents came from spite of the government. Wouldn't shock me.
These kinds of incidents were common, but amongst the 65th since we Puertoricans aren't comfortable with those climates whatsoever. It seems to have always been a staggering amount more than other divisions/regiments
@@SimpleHatch I can better understand why people would want to wound themselves in Korea. But during the two months in Peira Cava, only a total of about 5 men were killed by German fire. If the soldiers sat tight, they were safe.
Thanks for your perspective in any case.
I am a retired Puerto Rican Lieutenant Colonel. My father was a career soldier and served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. He served with the 65th Infantry in Korea. I have led both American and Puerto Rican soldiers during my own career. I think this video although appearing to be well researched is lacking in context. The entire U.S. Army in Europe during WW2 experienced self-inflicted wound casualties. Duane Schultz in an article "Combat Fatigue: How Stress in Battle was Felt (and Treated) in WWII" stated that Lieutenant Paul Fussell, an infantry officer, found that hundreds of soldiers in the Hürtgen Forest fighting shot themselves to get out of the line. They usually chose the left hand or foot. So many men wounded themselves that Army hospitals had to set up special wards to house those soldiers designated as SIWs (Self-Inflicted Wounds). When they recovered, most were tried and convicted of “carelessness with weapons” and given six-month sentences in the stockade. The video takes the incidents of 8 soldiers and makes it appear an entire battalion of over 800 soldiers is unreliable. As to the allegation that the Puerto Rican soldiers shot Colonel Ford in the back, you have an eyewitness statement by another officer, Captain Daniel Logan, who clearly stated that the shot came from the Germans when Ford was approaching their position. This video insults the service and sacrifice of COL Ford and all the soldiers of the 65th Infantry as well as Puerto Rican soldiers in general. When you have a segregated unit, it is easy to blame the soldiers. The leadership, COL Ford and all his officers, are responsible for everything the unit does or fails to do. With good leadership, the Puerto Rican soldier is as good as any other. It is standard procedure for the Executive Officer (XO) to take command when the Regimental Commander is killed, so LTC Cordero would automatically be temporary commander until higher headquarters selected a new commander.
Dear sir. In the video I state very clearly that I believe the rumors that Ford was shot by his men are untrue. So we are in agreement on this.
Indeed, the XO takes command after the CO is killed. But is this also the case when the CO says he got rid of his XO 5 days earlier? This is certainly an unusual situation.
Regarding the self inflicted wounds, can you tell me of another battalion with 8 suspicious cases in a week? I am certainly not an expert on self inflicted wound statistics, but with my own research, I have never come across such numbers. In the video I simply say that I have never come across so many cases of self inflicted wounds being mentioned in a unit's archives before.
I understand this video can sound insulting, but it is not a history of the 65th, it is simply an investigation report into one facette of the unit that is particularly unusual, and for which I was able to find numerous primary documents. It is not meant to be an insult and at the end of the video I pay homage to these Puerto Rican soldiers who fought and died far from home in an environment they clearly had not been trained to deal with.
Your assessment is very meticulous and sensitive. I wouldn’t condemn anyone who lost their nerve in such hectic circumstances but rather look at those who put untrained people in these situations.
Sad for all concerned, really love your work and the respect you have shown without bias.
Take care
BS, where did they think they were going in an infantry unit? On a vacation?
But it sounds like a really crappy unit. Too bad that colonel did something stupid and got killed. He just might have straightened up the unit.
Jean-Loup, we corresponded emails a couple of years ago before my trip to Peira Cava during which I retraced the steps of my great uncle Corporal (CPL) Aristides Cales Quiros. I would like to share a positive view of the 65 Infantry that is overlooked in the video. I want to highlight that even though the unit had a few organizational issues on record, the good deeds are sporadically recorded if not at all.
I am a retired Army Major with 25 years of experience who worked as a combat medic for 5 years before moving on to the Infantry and Special Operations. I have been in dozens of combat missions and firefights in Iraq and Afghanistan and have treated several gunshots wound patients.
My great uncle, CPL Aristides Cales Quiros was killed during the reconnaissance mission to the cable station and awarded the Silver Star for his actions. He was COL Ford’s driver, and it is important to know that Soldiers assigned to driver duties are specially selected because they are responsible for the punctual transportation of the officer to key higher echelon meetings, as well as inspecting the troops. Despite often great chasms of rank and age, drivers would spend large amounts of time in casual conversation with their passenger and would know how their Commander likes his coffee, favorite sports team and even family life. I have no doubt that my great uncle, CPL Cales Quiros, was extremely loyal to COL Ford. I can assume that he also had an idea of what the COL was trying to do with the unit.
The reconnaissance patrol was composed of all volunteers. I know so through conversations with a 65th IN member from NY, before he died. The recon mission was a very dangerous mission even with today’s technology (NVG’s, Drones, MEDEVAC). The volunteers showed full loyalty and support to the COL by going into the dark forest in what they knew was a suicide mission if within Line of Sight of hundreds of Germans.
Around minute 34, when the firefight is explained, there is no mention of CPL Cales Quiros’ actions in the battle. Based on the eyewitness Silver Star citation, “despite being wounded, CPL Cales Quiros moved forward to engage the enemy, he shot the cable house with a bazooka to cover the retreat of his companions before getting mowed down by machine gun fire”. I can only assume that as the only individual to move forward, his intention was to rescue the COL. The video unintentionally misconstrues not only that the COL was left behind, and everyone fled, but that he was also shot by his own men.
As far as the conspiracy theory that COL Ford was shot in the back, there is a simple explanation to it. When a bullet enters the body, it makes a small hole the size of the projectile. The bullet tumbles and kinetic energy expands inside the body, literally exploding as it exits the body, making the exit wound significantly larger and more painful. Chest seal kits have one small patch and one large patch with a valve for this reason. Therefore, gunshot victims often feel the pain of the exit wound and are not aware of the entry point. That is probably why the COL thought he was hit in the back. I’ve seen many gunshot wounds, and these are the physics of bullet trajectory.
Regarding the question of why COL Ford did not bring the entire Regiment, well, the intent of a reconnaissance patrol is to observe the enemy undetected. The purpose is not to get in contact but observe enemy positions unseen. If discovered by the enemy, the battle drill is to break contact, which is what the patrol did. Except for CPL Cales Quiros who I believe decided to move forward to aid COL Ford.
Thank you for maintaining the memory of our WWII heroes alive, and please consider researching and making a positive video of some of the men from the 65 IN.
Hi Edgar.
I am sorry that this video is about the problems of the 65th IR at the time they were in Peira Cava and that seem to have led to Col Ford’s death, so the story portraits everybody present in a rather dim light. The video and story are about the disfunctions that occurred, and not about the many positive things that occurred at the same time. I had several more things to say, but when I saw that the video was already 42 minutes long, just about one helmet and one colonel, I decided it needed to stop at that. You can check my youtube profile, and see that it is the longest video I have ever made, despite none of the themes seeming to be very popular. I assumed that nobody would watch this video and am very surprised by the attention it has received in such a short period. Now that hundreds of people have been commenting, I see that there are some points that I should have insisted on more, and a few more things that could have been said.
To answer your points and comments: I did not detail what Aristides did during the patrol, because I do not have any details of what he did, and also because I thought the video had to be shortened as much as possible. Since he received the Silver Star, he undoubtedly did something special, but I have not seen the document about him using his bazooka, and as you see, the two period witness accounts do not mention this. I also have to say that I do not consider medal citations a very reliable source of information. As you saw though, I did mention Aristides was killed during the patrol and showed both his photo and his Silver Star in the conclusion.
You meantion that the video “unintentionally misconstrues not only that the COL was left behind, and everyone fled, but that he was also shot by his own men.” I will say again in written what is said in the video.
The circumstances of Ford’s death are very unusual, and present a perfect scenario for a fragging conspiracy. What I do in the video, is explain these circumstances as best I can, and show that indeed at the time, there were rumours going around that Ford had been shot by one of his own men. The von Seylitz letter shown around 31 minutes proves that this rumour was circulating at the time. This is not my opinion, this is a historical fact.
Then in the video, I present my opinion about the patrol (around 35:56 minutes), which is that Ford was indeed killed by the Germans and that no fragging occurred, for several reasons. I failed to mention that soldiers from an Intel and Recon platoon would have been highly motivated men, just like Aristides, and I don’t believe they would have shot their Colonel. The witness account of a captain of the artillery from another unit who was with them (Logan), simply confirms that Ford was shot by the Germans.
To summerize, what my video says, is that despite rumours of fragging at the time, and suspicious circumstances, I believe Ford and Aristides were killed by the Germans, and don’t believe the conspiracy theories at all.
Ford’s body was indeed left in front of the German positions, but I would never say he was “left behind”. His body was right in front of the Germans, and recovering it would not have been possible without a major and costly operation.
As for the other men “fleeing”, I do not say anything like this. The men indeed retreated, because they had already suffered almost 50% casualties and were completely outnumbered. The documents shown in the video state that they tried to retrieve the colonel’s body, but it simply was not possible to do so.
Regarding your explanation as why Ford thought he was shot in the back, I give the exact same explanation at 36:32 in the video, as well as another explanation as to why he could have said he was shot in the back.
So to conclude this once more, I don’t think that Ford was shot by his men. This is an interesting story of how a rumour of him having been shot by his men was born, but that in my opinion is wrong. That is what my video is about, and I am sorry that it doesn’t go into more details about some of the more positive aspects of the 65th IR.
I would be very happy to make a positive video about the men of the 65th in Peira Cava, but which the documents and witness accounts I have turned up, I don’t have any good “story”. The fact is that it was a quiet area, with no major action going on on either side, so there is not much to say. That is why Ford’s story and the self-inflected wounds stand out.
If you are able to provide me with a bit more information and photos about Aristides, and if you trust me with this mission, I will be happy to make a video about him as well. I am not sure of what “angle of attack” to chose, but we can think it over. I agree with you that these Puerto Rican soldiers who were sent to the freezing Alps also deserve to have some good things said about them.
P.S: I already know that if we say Aristides was close to Colnel Ford, the conspiracy theorists will say that that is why Aristides was also eliminated, as he was a witness. That is not my opinion, but that is what some people will say.
@@CrocodileTear Dear Jean-Loup,
I would like to bring to your attention my main concerns regarding the content of the video. The video spends 39 out of 41 minutes building arguments of the “suspicious death” of COL Ford only to state your belief in the opposite in the last 2 minutes. The video spends 95% of the time indirectly suggesting a MURDER CASE. COL Ford spent 21 days on the ground (Dec 15 to 4 Jan); I find it unbelievable that someone wanted to murder him in that short amount of time. I strongly recommend presenting a balanced and fact-based view to avoid any misunderstandings in future videos.
Because most of the video alludes to a murder, it has triggered numerous directly and indirectly racist comments, as well as judgments on the Commander’s leadership and tactical decision making. The video and comments have not only tarnished the reputation of an entire unit but also the memory of the 13 men who voluntarily went on the patrol, and two men made the ultimate sacrifice. In the court of TH-cam, these Soldiers have now been unfairly judged, and they are unable to defend themselves. It is important to be mindful of the consequences of our actions, and I urge you to consider this in your future content.
I also wish to address some of the counterpoints to the “very suspicious arguments” presented in the video.
- While some of the gunshot wounds were most likely self-inflicted, many could have been accidents. Soldiers can have “negligent discharges” carrying a loaded weapon while tired, and it still happens to this day. However, because less than 1% of the unit self-harmed themselves, it is not a collective motive to kill a commander who spent only three weeks with them.
- The grenade incidents are most likely accidents, and assuming otherwise overlooks the challenging circumstances that these soldiers were facing. Handling a grenade with bulky gloves is not the same as throwing a baseball with your bare hand. You are judging the less than 5 seconds reaction of a young soldier, working 14-hour days, in freezing conditions, in the darkness, looking for an OD green grenade on the ground, while his buddies are around him and could die because of his mistake. Because of the lack of empathy, some viewers are convinced that the Soldiers blew their limbs on purpose. It’s easy to judge how to handle a grenade under stress from the warm comfort of our homes.
Also, the reason to throw grenades during darkness and not shoot your rifle is because the muzzle-flash would give away your position. The enemy can then throw a grenade towards the muzzle flash and take out several men. The reason no one said anything about the grenade explosion in the last incident is because most likely the COL/CSM strictly prohibited the use grenades after all the incidents or required authorization by a Sergeant. That would be my control measure as a Commander.
- Cordero was not a beloved leader who had enough influence to convince someone to commit murder. The video left most viewers with the impression that that was the intention to murder COL Ford and restore Cordero. I understand that the father-in-law heard a rumor, but I can assure you that the murder of unit CDR would be a priority to investigate. Rumors are not facts, and it is crucial to differentiate between the two before making serious accusations.
Lastly, I would like to strongly suggest conducting a peer review before sharing any content on your platform. World War II is still recent history, and there are family members of the Officer and Soldiers involved in the comments section. It is our responsibility to be respectful of the families of those who made the ultimate sacrifice.
Thank you for taking the time to consider these concerns, and I hope viewers consider my points of view.
@@CrocodileTear I recommend you pin @JB10878's comments and your response to the top of the page because both of you are making very cogent points that should interest and further inform the viewers.
@@JB10878 Hi Edgar. The video presents a certain number of period documents which is most of what the video is about, and I draw my conclusions from these documents. Some of my conclusions may be incorrect, they are just my personal views.
Regarding the timeline, the possibility of Col. Ford having been killed by hiw own men is only mentionned at about 31 minutes, based on a detailed letter by Ford's father in law. Before that, I am describing the events leading up to the patrol.
There is no youtube court, but you are right this video will partly tarnish the reputation of the 65th. But I a not inventing anything. My goal is neither to tarnish nor to glorify, but simply to try to be factual about an unusual event. What happened should not reflect poorly on the hundreds of other soldiers in the unit who did their duty.
Regarding wether the wounds are self inflicted or not, we will have to disagree. Sure, some of the 8 suspicious incidents in a week may have been genuine accidents. But the fact that so many occurred at the same time can only reflect either self inflicted wounds, or extremely poor training. Since the unit had been trained for several years, I lean towards the self inflicted wounds. This seems to be confirmed by the period witness account of one of the soldiers who drove a wounded man to the aid station, by the fact Cordero ordered an investigation, and by Ford's statements in his letters home. If my memory serves me well there were 8 suspicions woundings in 7 days, then after Cordero ordered an investigation, there are only 3 suspicious woundings in the next two months.
Who is tought to hold a grenade in his left hand? There is no evidence in the unit documents that any order was given to stop using grenades after the incidents.
Regarding Ford's death, there was an investigation, that is why Sgt Robles and Capt Logan were interogated. This indicates the army considered the event suspicious at the time. You can see in the Robles document, that he gave his statement after having been read Article of War n°24, which seems to indicate all this was done in the setting of a court martial.
The video is not a peer reviewed scientific article, it is a homemade video. However, this story has been published in written three times, including on the website of the 65th, with no negative reactions. In this video I added the new info I have since found: the US soldier's account of driving a wounded Puerto Rican to the aid station, and the father in law's letter. The US soldier's accunt is very harsh, that is true, but I am simply quoting him. I understand that this new information can be troubling to the history of the 65th, but as I said, my point in the video was to try to describe the events surrounding Ford's death as best I could, not to defend or attack the 65th.
There have been many very good comments made by viewers, and perhaps in the future I can make an improved version of the video.
@@CrocodileTear Dear Jean-Loup. This is Noemi Figueroa Soulet, Producer of the PBS documentary film on the 65th Infantry Regiment. Part of the supposed facts offered in your video places a great importance on a obscure second-hand anecdotal accounting of a 65th soldier I interviewed regarding an event that he supposedly witnessed between Lt. Col. Cordero and Col. Ford. You took it as a "fact" even though you do not have an eye witness account corroborating what this soldier witnessed or how accurate or inaccurate it was. I would not state this was a "fact". If I got any part of that anecdote wrong or if what the soldier saw did not tell the whole story of what transpired, your "conspiracy theory" of Cordero's involvement falls apart. People who watch this video are taking everything mentioned as a "fact" when a lot of it speculation and conclusions. Just like the grieving father-in-law desperate to find a scapegoat to explain the sudden, unexpected death of a loved one. You could be wrong about a lot of these "facts". There is nothing sinister or suspicious about investigating the death of a colonel (an upper level officer) who shouldn't have been on that patrol to begin with. After-Action Reports are always done when a mission goes bad. Nevertheless, people love conspiracy theories and jump on it. The men who could tell us what really happened there are no longer with us. Let the dead rest in peace.
You make a good point about the folly in assigning this regiment to this location considering the lack of experience, time of year, and their personal experience living in P.R. I would suspect this might reflect a bit on the leadership of the higher ups. I'm taking a guess here that this theater commander was LTG Mark Clark, know as a pretty arrogant man. From what I read, he would never have considered the propriety of assigning a group for poorly trained, limited English speaking soldiers in the dead of winter. Moreover, such commanders tend to have subordinate commanders who would reflect the superior's narcissism. That may sound harsh, but my guess is it might have something to do with it.
Considering the poor morale, poor training, poor leadership, and a propensity for ""accidents"" blowing off hands and feet, combined with a career officer from West Point making them do stuff, I would not rule out fragging. It would be very easy to ""accidentally"" shoot the CO during a fight with the enemy to get your old, friendly, incompetent, lazy CO back.
Yea without a doubt from the get go I knew they were going to frag him , guess they shot him though ,can't help but wonder how the heck so many of them.survived those American pineapple grenades , those things are savage fragmentation grenades , I guess they could have survived H.E grenades but I've never seen American H.E grenades until Vietnam Era just fragmentation nades as far as I know , and those will decapitate and maim
@@user-ix3en1zd7n what are you talking about ? Fragmentation grenades are High explosive grenades. Are you referring to an offensive grenade because the us Army had them even in ww1 . Search for the MK3 grenade
@@jacobkudrowich oh wow interesting I didn't know US had those , that looks like a smoke grenade ! And I know that frags are HE I would just imagine a frag is much more lethal compared to an HE grenade such as the M67 little and round where as the pineapple is larger and designed to have much more fragmentation
The irony is that Col. Ford, from the very little we know of him still, sounds like he was the kind of man who would have sorted the 65th out- as in got them the proper kit, and shaken up the bad leadership even further, and otherwise made their lives a lot better. I was thinking that if he was shot by a patrol member, perhaps it was a friend of the bad Col. or someone who benefitted from him being there. The timing was very coincidental otherwise.
Hi Cib: If you watch the video until the end, Jean explains why the conspiracy theory is very unlikely, both from his analisys and the testimony of an american captain on the scene.
Found the document of Colonel Ford you spoke of. Thank you. Actually watched this one before. Most excellent.
Minor point: Not sure what you mean by ‘they were fighting a war that wasn’t really their war’. Puerto Ricans as just as American as somebody born and raised in Texas. Puerto Rico is likely to become the 51st and would’ve already been granted statehood had federal politics not gotten in the way. But, in many ways its a de facto state already despite its official status as a territory.
Either way, great video and a very interesting watch!
Just as American, but not quite? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_voting_rights_in_Puerto_Rico
@@CrocodileTear yes, just as American. The federal voting rights is a quirk with state boundaries not citizenship or ‘being American’ (Puerto Ricans are American citizens). Since Puerto Rico is not yet a state, any American living in Puerto Rico can’t vote in the federal elections. The nation’s capital, Washington D.C., is the same way except in regards to the electoral college which is a convoluted edge case and a story for another time. So, that means that if an American, born and raised in say Texas, moves to Puerto Rico they can not vote in federal elections either. However, Puerto Ricans are American citizens and have a right to live, work, and vote in any of the 50 states. Since you cited a very particular wikipedia article with your passive aggressive response to deliberately frame your argument and exclude the context surrounding it, I’d recommend reading a more comprehensive one which I’m sure you already have but I guess you just couldn’t just say, ‘you know what, what I said in the video was actually a misunderstanding.’
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico?wprov=sfti1
Edit: here is the Wikipedia for the D.C. example I referenced too if you are so inclined:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_federal_voting_rights?wprov=sfti1
@@Ac54-pvr7X-QWk2 I can admit I may be totaly wrong about this as I know nothing about Puerto Rico, and thought it was an independent country before finding the helmet mentionned in this video.
However what I see is that these people did not have the right to vote (when they were in their homeland I find out thanks to you), the enlisted men could for the most part not speak English apparently, they were in what was apparently the only segregated unit in the US army. All this seems to show that althought they may have been 100% American on paper, in practice not all the men may have felt this way, or felt the same way the average soldier from the continent felt.
I may be completely wrong about this, and I guess I should have stuck to speaking about the events I researched.
This was a facinating story Jean-Loup- amazing how it all came from someone finding a lost helmet in the mountains. This story would have been lost to history, like so many others, had it not been for this chance occurrance and your interest- and the wonderful availability of documents and ease of contact with people and sources today. At any earlier time, it probably would have been impractical to search for and obtain the details you have. Now over 11k of us know Col. Ford's and the 65 IR's stories at Peira Cava. It's a sad story, to be sure, but one that deserves to be known. Merci!
The documents are public, but nobody wanted to see them.
It is a sad story. I’d give anything to have known him. I was very close to his wife, my Grandmother, who lived until 1985. If only he had made it through that war. He had 9 grandsons & 2 granddaughters from my mama alone. 💔
Another fascinating and amazing video, rest in peace, Colonel Ford, you did your duty and today in 2023 we remember you, and we salute you, sir!
I also dare say that I salute all his troops including those who shot themselves in the hand or toe. Who are we to judge any of them?
That’s my Granddaddy right there. George Almond Ford.
I’m gobsmacked to be seeing & hearing this. Has me kinda weepy. 😢
@@CrocodileTear I hadn't actually read between the lines on this story, it makes it even more fascinating, the official report said he was killed by the Germans.
Unofficially he may have been killed by his own men, the other enlisted man killed was Aristides Cales Quiros, who was very close to the Colonel.
Colonel Ford was very inexperienced, so he may have thought he had something to prove, he was awarded the Bronze Star.
I guess we will never know what really happened.
@@fastyaveit Thanks for mentioning Aristides. He was my uncle. You are right, Aristides acted as the chouffer of Coronel Ford and was personally close to him. The group in the patrol was loyal to Coronle Ford and they volunteered to go on that mission.
The comment and description surrounding the Colonels death
is important, the legs being observed as being pulled up to his chest and then stretched out and quivering would indicate de-cerebrate and de-cortecate posturing which is a pre terminal indicator where catastrophic blood loss is concerned starving the brain of
oxygen.
Damage to the lungs may have caused this this but I suspect that the bullet likely caused major organ damage given the indicated, probable timescale in the report.
In which case I would suspect liver and digestive system as the likely damaged area, that may account for the lucidity of the Colonels answer, then the rapid loss of consciousness with bleeding from the mouth.
Damage to the lungs on that scale might well have rendered him unable to speak from the outset.
Tragic in any circumstance.
My grandpa was in the 65th infantry and fought in Korea. Last segregated unit in US Army almost all Puerto Ricans. He has told me horrific stories of combat he experienced against the North Koreans and Chinese. Thanks for the video!
If you want to know more, you can watch the updated and longer version of the video
I love what you do. Thanks so much for doing such expert research.
Your investigative skills are extremely impressive. People who have not been infantryman do not typically understand the layered complexities of the situation nor the realities at hand. You very clearly do and have a gifted communication ability regardless if you have personal experience or not in combat. For example a grunt can at the same moment be…. Pissed off he has not had hot chow in days… think his squad leader is an idiot that is likely to get him killed… hoping to find balm to treat his crotch rot… looking forward to going home on leave… desperately hoping to avoid going on patrol or any strenuous or dangerous operation.. proud and amazed by the power and accuracy of American artillery.. all while wanting desperately to somehow survive… And a dozen other simultaneous complaints, interests, warm friendships etc. I made that situation up for illustration but from experience can tell you life in a line unit is complex. You want to be safe, warm, well fed and avoid risk but the unit seemingly always trying to make you do the opposite in order to accomplish the assigned mission. The point of all that is this story wonderfully captures at the unit level the interplay of the myriad factors constantly impacting an infantryman’s thoughts. You get to a point you can feel a units morale, combat effectiveness, command climate, supply status and relative level of exhaustion, foot care level and all the rest almost like ESP that only infantrymen have. You can have a unit pass through yours, you don’t talk to them but you sense it all somehow. In your unit all these things are hugely apparent. It has been so long since I thought about this stuff but somehow your story brought it all back. Last comment is there is rarely truth just a series of stories that define what happens. The stories you hear and tell vary greatly based on perceptions shaped by passed events, and prejudices that define how you process your experiences. It always amazes me how differently people remember things that happen as infantrymen.
Incredible channel you have produced on TH-cam. I appreciate the effort you put into this project. It has me wanting to learn more about my uncle who was a gunner and was shot down over the pacific and survived. He never talked about it much so details are few.
If he was aircrew, there should be a rather detailed report of the crash/disapearence. I believe they are called MACR (missing aircrew report). But to find it you should know the date of the crash, the unit, etc.
8 incidents in 6 days is crazy! great research
Another masterfully done video and subsequent reasearch. Looking forward to many years of your fine research being video documented. I will be there no matter what. Favourite channel by far.
Very interesting, Jean-Loup! I think you are spot on with what happened through your analysis. Thanks for bringing this story to life.
Wow, what a fantastic episode! Your research is always so interesting but you outdid yourself on this one!
Thanks. I though this would be the most boring episode ever.
What a story you have uncovered. The colonel’s posting went from dream to nightmare so quickly. I can’t believe those guys resorted to blowing their hands off w grenades! Also looks like they shot their own Col. to get the lazy guy back. Tragic all around.
That is all speculation.
@@edgardrodriguez4945 Yes, I wrote while watching but did watch til the end. I’m not 100% convinced he didn’t succumb to ‘friendly fire’, though he very well could have been shot by the Germans. I wish we had more evidence either way.
Excellent. I admire your incredible research and detail-thanks.
There are so many side stories about WW2 that don’t get told.
Each survivor could probably go on for weeks about things they experienced in the vastness of the war. Although it probably wouldn’t benefit anyone this late about what happened, it sure is interesting and i really like stories of our great heroes who fought and survived and those that didn’t survive. Thanks for this exhaustive investigation on an this story.
Very, very, very interesting man.. You do a great job with your research.
The letter makes me think that he was trying to keep his family from worrying about him.
The guys shooting themselves mean moral was horrible.
Why the Army (I was in the army in the late 70's and early 80's) put him with this unit in active battle without training as you mentioned is beyond me. When I was in the Army this would have never happened.
How the guy with the grenade even lived is unbelievable. If it blew up he was very lucky to just have his hand blown up.. Unbelievable.
Why the Army sent a Puerto Rican unit to the mountains is weird too for sure!
Yeah, the Col Ford was trying to make sure the patrol was doing it's job. That's obvious.
Unbelievable that he would go to the cable house and stand up and look with bino's.. Anyone knows you don't show yourself like this to the enemy!
Yeah, if you're shot and you don't know about ballistics it could have seemed that he was shot in the back even though it went all the way thru him. The fact that Germans were shooting at him is enough as you say, and I think he was shot by the Germans!
Really good video sir! Great video and I totally agree that he was killed by the Germans, and it is sad all the way around..
Very interesting story and well presented. I feel for all those men and Ford. They needed combat experience and they did not have it. They were facing seasoned veterans of the Eastern front so it was fortunate they only lost what they did.
Very interesting story made all the more interesting by your in-depth research and balanced approach. Thank you!
What a story! I wonder how many more like this there were? Good job as always
An unusual story expertly told. I enjoyed this very much.
I am so glad that I found your channel! It is brilliant! So interesting! 👏👏👌
J'admire ton travail et le flot de présentation de qualité mit sur youtube! I wish longevity to this amazing work!
Excellently presented, your research on these stories is outstanding. 😊
I feel bad that I look forward to these amazing videos, but at least they are honoring the fallen by Keeping their memories alive. Col Ford sounds like someone who had smartest person in the room syndrome.
Not necessarily so. Probably over confident due to lack of combat experience, and overly enthusiastic certainly. Remember he was a new commander to the unit and a stranger with no shared experiences to the men under him. Additionally, there was a severe problem with discipline and morale. To restore discipline and build morale a officer must have the respect of his men. By leading them he establishes he will do himself what he asks of them. Thereby earning that respect, and giving them confidence in his leadership. It bonds them to him, and they will trust him, and obey his commands. I think you may be over harsh against him.
A fascinating and tragic story, very well told! Interestingly, Col. Ford is noted to be a "TC" or Transportation Corp officer but is also shown wearing crossed rifles (infantry) branch insignia in his photo. The regiment number is denoted above the rifles, but the photo resolution is too low to read the number. My guess is that as a West Point officer, they were trying to get him some combat experience before the war ended - it would have been hard to get promoted to general without it. I agree that Capt Logan is the key to the story; all these men had to do was hold their positions and wait for the war to end, what a shame. Also, the exit wound from a rifle round could be much larger than the entry wound leading him to think he had been shot in the back. Again, excellent work.
I admit I may have been mistaken that Ford had no infantry experience. I only realized that after watching the video. But I am quite sure he had no infantry combat experience.
"About this time we-- me, Washburn and two or three more-- were taken up in the mountains to a place called Piera Cava. I think that’s how it was spelled. It was sort of a bed and breakfast place with a little bar right across the road, the only street there. The army stashed us there and, it seemed, forgot about us. They sent up food once a week. We were in 6-8 inches of snow, while they were swimming in the ocean at Nice, 30 miles south.
Two old ladies ran the place, and a young guy, the grandson of one of them, hung around as the handyman and bartender. The old ladies were the owners. They cooked the food, and we and they ate family style. It was a dandy fine gig. We were supposed to stand some guard out behind the place, but it was not very demanding. I got my sergeant’s stripe while there.
The young guy, Louis was his name, went to Nice and came back with a cute girl. I said, “Louis, is that your wife?” “Non.” “Your fiancée?” “Non.” “Then who is she?” “Oh, chust a fran,” he said with a leer. Our happy little group went on two or three weeks, then here came a truck for us and we went back to war." -- SSGT Milton D, Rogers, 460th Parachute Field Artillery, 517th Parachute Regimental Combat Team (my father). From his memoirs, this would have been late 1944.
Hi. The 517th PRCT was in the area from September 1944 until late October or early November, so before the 65th arrived.
I have your father's memoire and used an extract of it in my book "Autopsy of a Battle, the Liberation of the French Riviera" (2014). I tried contacting relatives of Milton Rogers at the time, with no success, and found the document on 517prct.org, a great website.
The part of his memoire I used is the attack on St Cezaire (though he doesnt mention the location by name, the description is recognizable).
It is a pleasure to meet you here.
Jean-Loup Gassend
@@CrocodileTear Thank you so much for your work and your research! I will pass the word around the family to watch your videos - I am the eighth of Sgt. Rogers' twelve children. My oldest brothers can remember the nightmares, but they were long gone by the time I was born. He didn't talk much about the war, until he was eighty years old, but then wrote it all down. Again, thank you for your efforts to keep the memories of these men available after they are gone.
@@jtuberogers3528 Your father's memoirs is one of the better ones of the 517th PRCT that exists. I have your dad's Bronze Star citation somewhere, in case you dont have it. Can you perhaps send me an email so I have your adress on file?
Regarding my videos, a few could be more interesting as they are 517th related:
-The story of Marvin Mole's helmet, of I co 517th PIR: th-cam.com/video/MHvKPh1H23s/w-d-xo.html
-Then and now photos of the French Riviera including several showing the 517th: th-cam.com/video/rz6ISDEJ9EA/w-d-xo.html
-The story of a 517th ambush at Peira Cava: th-cam.com/video/X3u4ZIlgsiM/w-d-xo.html
Another really engaging video jean loup. Better than any of the cr#p on mainstream TV....I honestly think youtube is a fantastic resource for military collectors and history buffs....not just the sole resource of course but its definitely got some great information on the platform. It seems like a catalogue of errors that led to colonel ford's death....I'll equipped troops, bad conditions , language barrier and I suppose the colonels eagerness might of been pegged back if he were with more seasoned troops and he wouldn't of gone on the patrol...although one of the soldiers did warn him , to no avail. The army probably should have intervened after the series of self inflicted wounds as its obvious something wasn't right....great bit of detective work. I was wondering if you would take a look at one of the videos on my channel, I uploaded it yesterday and its a german 1943 gas mask container I recently purchased. The seller said it had been re purposed post war to spread seeds, but after uploading the video one of my regular subscribers thinks that due to its clean condition and the fact that it doesn't look like its been on a farm for 70 odd years that it might be a 'quick lime' spreader used on corpses by the german military hospital troops...if you get a chance I'd appreciate your thoughts on it...cheers and all the best to you 😊
Hi. It indeed seems the gas mask tin has been reused by some other country. The shade of paint isnt correct, and the over piece has been reworked. I do not know what country would have done that.
@@CrocodileTear cheers Jean loup, yes under the lid I can see field grey paint. One of my fellow collectors suggested it was used as a disinfectant or quick lime spreader by a military hospital. The reason for this was that the original ebay seller had thought it had been used as a seed spreader, but my m8 , I think correctly, said he didn't think it looked like it had been in a barn or used on a farm a lot as it is clean with virtually no rust. There is no paint at all on the short strap...so a mystery, but I only paid £33 for it so quite cheap and I will leave it as is. Thank you very much for looking at my video, all the best to you 🙂🙂🙂
Excellent investigation and chronicle into the 65th Infantry Regiment, and Col. Ford's demise.
Excellent work best thing i have watched for a long time 👍
Fantastic investigation! Thank you so much for everything! You are a special kind of awesome:)
Wow! What a crazy story!
Merci pour les recherches.
You might have mentioned that this same unit was accused of cowardice during the Korean War, and over 100 of them were court martialed.
I try to stick to topics that I actualy know about and studied myself.
This video has been causing much more waves than expected. Some people have said I was too easy on the Puerto Ricans, and others have said I am being unfair with them.
Colonel Cordero, now the 65th Commanding Officer in Korea, was relieved of his duties.
Really interesting story resulting from the find of a war artifact. I really enjoy your work.
My father was an US Army officer during the Korean war. He told me that troops from Puerto Rico had a horrible reputation.
My father, 94, from Ponce, completed both combat jumps in Korea with the 187th, 11th Airborne Division. He retired as a SFC in 1969.
Excellent research as always done on these videos. Painstaking timely and thorough and fair. I concour with comment about leadership, discipline training,team work, which obviously had seriously deteriorated. When out of nowhere comes a replacement unknown,untested. The war at this time as stated was static,waiting for the end. All recipes for disaster. This unit should have been removed from duty and reorganized into rear echalen detail support,ie camp details,burning ****,ect.
A very well researched History of the 65th 3rd Battalion and the sorrows of War.
Imagine the Germans' surprise when they see that the man leading a clumsy patrol was a colonel. Excellent video!
I am not sure if the Germans realised he was a colonel or not, or if he had removed identifying insignia or not. In any case they buried the colonel but left the puerto rican soldier's body on the surface.
@@CrocodileTear There was an American movie "Attack' that was made in 1956 that was about a similarly disfunction American unit in Europe. According to Encyclopedia Britannica the movie " was considered groundbreaking for its exploration of cowardice and nepotism in the U.S. military". This was at a time when American movies about WWII were still more like wartime propaganda. I really enjoy your channel.
@@buckwylde7965 I saw that movie, with Cooney getting shot and killed by his men. I havent seem it in 25 years, but I still remember it.
@@CrocodileTear How do you know they left the Puerto Rican soldier on the surface? The Colonel was pretty exposed and they knew where he was- maybe they didn't know the other man was there, or is there no reason to believe the other patrol members recovered his body? I wondered about the circumstances of the other KIA and the three WIA- there's no detail about the combat that resulted in those- presumably that was the MG or the flanking attack, which was in the forest on the left? I don't see how it can be said that it was a specific choice to bury one and not the other- that has a very significant implication.
@@buckwylde7965 They still are LOL
I've written this before, you are only fantastic. I can't imagine where you dig all this material up.
Great video as always, Jean. Quick question--at 3:50 I noticed this research was done nearly 18 years ago. Are these videos you're uploading reuploads, or are you creating videos from research you had done in the past?
The video is new, but based on research done between 2005 and 2015. My project in the next months and years is to put my most interesting old research in video format.
That radio log is incredibly informative! Are logs like that publicly available for other units?
All this WWII stuff is publicly available, but not all units have a radio log in their archives. in my experience I would say 30/40% of units have it. They ate extremely precious because they contain pure unadulterated information, unlike the daily ir monthly reports. I have seen cases when the radio log documents a retreat, but the daily report says "the attacks were beaten off without difficulty"
@@CrocodileTear They are fascinating details to fill out a picture to be sure. It was crazy to read that the blowing off of a hand was described as not so serious. But since it wasn't immediately life-threatening, I expect that was 'militarily' appropriate since raido traffic probably had to be brief and to the point. If someone wasn't dying, they weren't so badly hurt? Fascinating.
@@mattl3729 Exactly, the soldier was probably not in hemorragic shoc or in risk of death, so the condition was described as non serious, which is medically was.
Very interesting story/video 👌👌👌
Job very well done. And thanks for uploading this
Pulling safety pin, Would hold the grenade in the left hand, pull the pin with the dominants right hand. The trick is to hold the spoon also with the left hand. It sounds more like the 'inexperienced' troops are letting the spoon fly off when pulling the pin, or while transferring the grenade to the right hand to throw.
The soldiers had had several years of training. Undoubtedly a couple of the cases may be accidents, but I dont believe all are.
Excellent breakdown of the fog of war.. There a very interesting account of Curtis Lemay when he was a fighter pilot with his Chain of command,
My grandfather flew the 442 into southern France, he was a glider pilot for the 439th with 82 airborne. He said they were unreal, the coolest men in combat.
What was your grandfather's name? I interviewed a few of the southern France glider pilots. Do you have any photos of him related to the southern France operation?
@@CrocodileTear yes I have him behind enemy lines and his buddy on long tow took pictures of the glider before releasing
@@verncommet1798 Could you perhaps send them to me by email ( jean-loup@gassend.com ). I am the author of the book about the Dragoon operation called "Autopsy of a Battle, the Liberation of the French Riviera".
@@CrocodileTear yes let me look through my files years ago I scanned everything
I'll not speak badly about the dead but Ford seemed kinda naive or maybe he was a glory hound who wanted some action. I think his heart was in the right place though.
Keep these great vids coming bro. You need a history channel show lmao. Actually grt some history on that channel.
Truly great video! Thank you!
Very well done as always nicely researched part 2 😊
Thanks mate
Sending the 65th to southern France is not a bad idea. Whoever chose the 65th was thinking of southern France as a warm, almost tropical type of place. Like the Riviera and the Mediterranean. However in the winter time and in that small section of France with the western most Alps, it was cold and miserable. In the other parts and in summer time it would be the perfect place for Puerto Rican troops.
Indeed, from looking at a map on a wall, it probably seemed like a natural choice.
Amazing as always
Good video, Thanks!
Unfortunately Colonel Ford made the mistake of calling his section quiet. That's kind of the equivalent of saying they could never hit a target from this far away. You are dooming yourself to death by irony. It's a real shame that he didn't make it through because his letter paints him as a really nice guy who couldn't have been happier. There are no safe places during a war. R I.P.🎉
Thank you for another excellent video!
Fabulous work. Important work.
Thanks guy for that piece of history 👍
Regarding being shot in the back. Exit wounds from rifle rounds are much larger than the entry wounds. It is quite likely that the Colonel had part of his back blown out by the round which entered from the front, and hence he would feel more pain in his back than in front. I'm speaking as a Doctor with a little knowledge of gunshot wounds.
Indeed, and this explanation is given in the video
Excellent research! Curious also that the father-in-law's name was von Seydlitz, a famous German military name, going back to Frederick the Great.
One of those ironic coincidences probably. What is as or more remarkable is that he kept that name. Many German families dropped the "von" and/or anglicized it into "Seadlier" etc. during WWI and WWII when things German were discriminated against.
That also caught my attention.
@@dmeinhertzhagen8764me too.
There was a General von Seydlitz in the Wehrmacht at Stalingrad- the only General known to have defied the order to remain, and in January, 1943, told his officers to do what they could to get out of the pocket. Must have been a relation. Amazing.
.....you may find that the families full name is Von Seydlitz Kurzbach. The family dates back to 1273 when it was known as Kurzbaski or something like that. The family lost 22 members in WW2. The connection to Frederick the Great is there was a General Friedrich Wilhelm Freiherr von Seydlitz that served him, he was a legendary Cavalry officer. The General you mentioned was unusual in many regards, one being sentenced to death by both Germany and Russia at the same time, he was a controversial character to say the least. However the Americans loved him for it and my mother and family got rations etc because of it . The family had so many members in the military that to keep it simple the called each other cousin, regardless of rank or relationship. The family crest is 3 fishes in a shield........." thats because we drink like fishes" as my great uncle told me.
I really enjoy your channel, and I appreciate you telling their stories that otherwise would be lost and you're very good forensic pathologist thanks so much!
Great content!!!
Colonel Ford may well have thought he had been shot in the back and said that as the exit wound of a 7.92 Mauser or MG34 or 42 round would certainly made a mess of anything it hit
There’s also the pain and shock factor of being shot
Exactly one of my thoughts said at the end of the video.
The Kar98k, MG34 and MG42 fired the same round, 7.92×57mm Mauser.
But every description I've ever read of being hit by a bullet or shell splinter- and I admit I've only read of it- is of a powerful impact (hit by a hammer, etc.), where one is hit, so it seems hard to see how the exit would be the thing that one recognizes even though it casues more damage. I'd think senses would be overwhelmed by the first event, and the subsequent one not necessarily being so clear. For Col. ford to so specifically say that he was shot in the back is, to my mind, is hard to see as noting the exit- if you're shot from where you know the enemy is, why would you talk about the exit wound? And him turning doesn't fit for me- if you're leaning out to look through field glasses, why turn and duck back into cover rather than just dodge back to the side? I don't know...
@@mattl3729 Hi: In addition to the opinion of Mr. Gassend: my uncle was Aristides Cales Quirós who also died that day. The patrol that went with Coronel Ford was a group of volunteers and were loyal to the Coronel, so the friendly fire conspiracy does not makes sense (to me).
@@joewalker2152 hence why i only made one reference of 7.92
I'd add to your explanation at the 37:20 ish mark that he may have had a fairly common reaction to getting shot at closer range by a rifle caliber bullet. Approaching an enemy position in a crouch, he was obviously aware of the proximity to enemy positions. Being the first man and lone man to step out from behind cover he'd have quite an adrenaline rush going. He simply may not have felt the impact of the bullet through its small and innocuous entry wound, however as it tumbled and left his back in a nastier exit wound, the combination of the pain and adrenaline could simply override the sense of feeling the entry wound and focusing entirely on the more prominent internal bleeding and large wound in his back. Combine that with a state of shock from blood loss and the confusion of combat, (bullets passing by simply make a "crack" sound that can be confusing, especially in an echo-friendly mountain environment as to the direction the shooter may be in. Bullets do not originate from large yellow muzzle flashes, glow bright yellow and "hum" by in a crescendo of noise as Hollywood would have you believe.) finally a difference in mindset between a new commander eager to prove himself and the demoralized and miserable unit (where soldiers aren't opposed to maiming themselves) causing him difficulty may have led to a degree of suspicion and distrust causing him to believe in the heat of the moment that yes, "of course" he was shot in the back.
The research was very well done. Interesting topic. I can dig it.
Dont tell me about digging please 😉
@@CrocodileTear expect that’s something you know all about!
@@llamamanism I dont know "all", but I do know a bit. Have you seen some of my digging videos?
@@CrocodileTear I’ve seen the ones near Stalingrad that I think you were involved in but I like all your films
@@llamamanism OK, thanks!
Being inadequatly trained for winter warfare can have devastating results on the morale of most soldiers. Clearly, the 65th was not adequately "winter warfare" trained and supplied before being deployed into the line. As a result they suffered from low morale. There were only a small number of questionable accidents while the rest of the regiment acquitted themselves under difficult conditions.
It sounds like the 65th and Colonel Ford were merely sent to plug a hole in a quiet sector where in depth experience would be a minimal factor.
Colonel Ford wanted to lead from out front, no doubt as an example which was commendable. Unfortunately, the Colonel was not an experienced infantry officer and was somewhat reckless exposing himself in front of battle hardened germans. Your explanations as to his demise sound plausible.
Have you tried to research the German military archives for the german unit in the area? Germans were generally good record keepers. You may find more bits and pieces to this incident.
All in all a very good video.
Yes, I have done very in depth research on the Germans in the area, but with very little luck. late in the war, the german archives run dry.
Best channel on TH-cam.
Excellent. What bothers me is he was a West Point graduate-a lifelong soldier. Col Ford was also 42 years old, so he had almost 20 years of service under his belt-so he was no fool. LTC Cordero on the other hand was there, likely behind him, and probably very angry given he had been dressed down in public. If LTC Codero was as vindictive as he was useless, he would have taken great pleasure in the irony of seeing his CO killed on his 1st mission during his 1st week. Getting shot 'in the back" makes this more likely, especially since the LTC Ford said he was "shot in the back", after all he would know.
It did seem a bit extreme to 'spank' a Lt. Col. and then tip his cot to get him up later- that's going to make an instant enemy, and the embarrassment easily lead to instant hatred. I could see Ford understandably doing that to a private, but a field-grade officer and Batallion commander? Wow. It certainly easily makes Ford's death being murder very easy to swallow.
There is no evidence at all that Cordero was on the patrol.
Ford was no fool, but he clearly was not an experienced infantry officer either.
@@CrocodileTear did they ever recover his body ?
@@charlesrs Yes, it had been buried by the Germans, in the German lines. I think I say it at one point in the video.
Interesting story. I'll follow this channel.
What a trip! Excellent video as usual.
Fascinating video, excellent work
It's a pity that "After the Battle magazine" stops otherwise you should have written an article in it. You have very interesting content.👍👍👍👍👍👍
My main interest is in the Normandy Invasion through the rest of the battle for France and since you know France, do you know where "Little Switzerland" is in the area closer to the coast of Normandy? I came across a photo in one of the older Panzerwrecks editions where I first read a cutline saying the picture taken in "Little Switzerland" but all my attempts to find this place that is so far from the actual Alps. Thank you, and this video is very interesting. It is about an area I have no knowledge of during the war years. Thanks again! An amazing discovery because of your detective skills!
Apparently the town of Clécy 14570, is know as "la petite suisse normande"
Hello from sunny Normandy
I live maybe 2 or 3 miles from Hill 112, in Fontaine-Etoupefour.
The "Suisse Normande" is a part of Normandy, roughly located partly on the Calvados region and on the Orne region.
The city of Clécy is considered its "capital".
As an ex medic we were taught that this behaviour is called ,, the domino affect ,, was the same in the first war but they would shoot fingers and toes off
BTW, great video. In my limited knowledge you have to consider "plunging fire" from a higher position. Mauser k98 in 8mm went right through the Colonel. He was doing a "leader's recon" because the subordinate officer were dipshits. As a former Marine Grunt of Hispanic descent this unit's accolades have been pushed down our throats when I was growing up near Ft. BLISS in El Paso. I had never heard about the coward action of men blowing up their hands.
Good investigation and video.
How near was this helmet to Col Fords location of death. Was this left and found right in front of German lines are in the reserve area where the Americans camped out. Great video keep up the good work.
The helmet was found, as I was told, near Peira Cava, so the opposite side of the valley of where Ford died.
Using a hand grenade to blow off your hand seems like "overkill" to me. One would have to assume a grenade going off in your hand would end your life - not just take your hand. ( Under normal conditions.)
I wondered about that too- I'd have thought a hand grenade would have done a lot more than blow a hand off; surely the splinters would have killed the man holding it. With no witnesses or mention of them (or them being friends), maybe these were also gunshot wounds that were claimed to be grenade wounds to avoid the chance of anyone thinking it was self-inflicted?
Yes, I found that a bit suspicious as well.
@@mattl3729 Most likely gunshots were the cause. A grenade would have done far worse damage.
I was wondering the same. I would imagine that gripping the grenade fuze (without the shell and explosive) as it goes off would give you the "desired" level of injury to your hand and fingers, but how on earth could that be explained as grenade going off in your hand is beyond me.
I suspect that Col Ford despite his inexperience wanted to ‘see’ action rather than miss out so probably pushed for a front line posting. This in in itself was dangerous for himself and all of those he was in charge off. To make matters worse the men he took over were of very low grade, in the wrong place at the wrong time and were also a danger to themselves and others around them. The latter appeared to be the cause of Ford’s death.
Having said all that it is quite possible that Ford had been accidentally shot in the back but the suspicions still remain that the troops he took over were of poor quality .
I don't know- from his letter, he sounded proud to be given the command, and the opportunity to improve it; he didn't sound excited to 'get his chance in action' or anything. I got the impression, as Jean-Loup suggested, that it might well have been a case of a good leader wanting to suss things out for himself rather than rely on potentially dubious subordinates. Or, at least, a unit he didn't know, and thus had to assure himself was doing things right. Leading from the front is something that should be lauded, not considered foolish.
Your videos are great! Very intresting!!