I’m a revert back to the Catholic Church. I spent many years in Assemblies of God Churches. When I was lead back to the Catholic Church I was amazed at how much scripture was a part of the mass. And the kneeling, bowing, praying together certain prayers-so much meant so much more to me. I will say the I brought a piece of my Pentecostal expression with me. I cannot help but sway during the singing. Man, are those Catholic hymns so powerful and meaningful!
The point you men brought up, about silence, reverence, that one should not expect a social gathering, this is so important for non Catholics to understand. My sister, who I am gently talking to about becoming Catholic, loves this aspect of the Mass. Whenever I am in town, she is more than eager to go to Mass with me. She has even gone on her own. She told me she has gone to other churches where congregants (probably greeters/ushers) were too intrusive. She said she goes for peace, solace, etc. I’m trying to convince her to go for the Eucharist. Great discussion
I'm just in the middle of the video and It's been so heart coming.. So many questions I have, then this it make me see things in other ways I didn't realize.. I think I'm going to stop and meditate, and then I'll continue..
It was great listening to you. I was born and raised catholic and educated at a Jesuit school. I’m back to church now. And everything you say is true. Traditions and ritual have a deep meaning and are connected to our spirituality. It is also intended for unity.
That's why we have to go and participate in the prayers at mass, even if we don't feel like going, because we have a duty to include our prayer (our "vote") in the prayers of the church that are being offered up. We aren't doing it for ourselves, necessarily, we're doing it for the Church and the community and the world.
Great discussion once again...one more point I like to add is the miracle that happens in the catholic church at every mass at eucharist when the bread and wine gets conveterd to the Body Blood soul and divinity of lord Jesus Christ
If there is a feeling after Mass that there are visitors and questions - someone from OCIA could make an announcement that there is a group who can answer questions in the hall.
People wouldn’t say you had terrible taste if you take them to a Latin Mass. If you can’t, show them a video of a TradMass and explained the continuity (if you can)
I recently read a Catholic tract concerning Mass. I know this is a sharp, pointed thing to say within such a short buildup but I found it to be blasphemous. Why? In short, to say that Christ is sacrificed again and again (now as a caveat it did explain that He does not 'die' again and again in the Mass, just that it is exactly equivalent as if it were happening again in the Mass,) is wholly missing the point of His sacrifice on the cross to begin with! Heb 9:24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; Heb 9:25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another- Heb 9:26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, Heb 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. I don't intend to change anyone's mind in a single comment, as I know there are layers to a belief system. But how can anyone ignore such a thing? The tract went on to imply that missing a Mass was a mortal sin (unless for 'defined, reasonable reasons',) which was cause for a "bad death." Don't you see that this screams "works" and "self-righteousness," instead of wholly relying on Jesus' death and resurrection for salvation and entrance into heaven? Help me understand these mis-steps, please!
About the Mass: We are commanded to love God and keep a Sabbath. To deliberately miss Mass is to turn our back on our relationship with God. Sickness/genuine inability is not deliberately ignoring God. It's also not a check box work that gets us to Heaven. People could faithfully attend Mass all their lives and still not inherit the Kingdom.
@@atrifle8364 What is the strawman that you claim I'm arguing against? I feel what I said was pretty clear. Concerning Mass and your response: "Holy writers recommend various excellent methods whereby we may make our salvation certain, and all these we should use to the best our ability. All agree, however, that the best and easiest of these means is the frequent assistance at Holy Mass." This quote is from the tract I read. This right here says that going to Mass helps in securing your salvation. This is the "work" I was referring to, among other things. The Bible is very clear that it's only Jesus, only belief and reliance on Him for the forgiveness of our sins (amongst other things He accomplished,) not "going to Mass" or "doing other things" that will get us into His good graces. But this says otherwise and seems to be common among the Catholic faith if this tract represents it. That's dangerous and will send people straight to hell! I will agree you on your last statement, that there are those who could faithfully attend and still not inherit the kingdom. Just because you're there doesn't mean you believe. So that's something we agree on. You mention that it's not about a check box work - again, something else we agree on. I realize and recognize that your beliefs might not line up totally with what I read, and that you yourself don't represent the faith in its entirety. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to an obviously charged comment on my end. I'm genuinely distressed at what I read and haven't had a place to talk about it. I will say this about relationship with God and Mass (and on my end, church in general:) Keeping the Sabbath has nothing to do with being in a place on a given day. Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well in John chapter 4, verse 21, that those who will worship Him will not worship Him at a place or in a temple (physical location _only_ .) Paul writes to the Corinthians in 1st Corinthians chapter 6 verse 18 (and other places) that we (those who believe in Him) are the temple of the Holy Spirit (that He resides _in_ us!) In Hebrews chapter 4, the writer explains in a comparison that the rest is not about a day, but resting from our works just as God did His. In Paul's letter to the Colossians, chapter 3 verse 23, he writes that we are to do everything as unto the Lord. And many times in the Old Testament God emphasizes to the people that He wants their heart, not their service without any heart behind it! This is to worship God in Spirit and in Truth, as Jesus told the Samaritan woman in the same chapter of John from before. This is what it means to have a relationship with Him, to be submitted to Him wholly, giving Him our whole heart, mind, soul, and body just as He gave Himself for us! Every day is a Sabbath day, my friend! Every day! As a caveat of my own, totally not against assembling somewhere on a given day to worship the Lord with other believers. It's healthy. In Hebrews 10 verses 23-25, the writer says not to forsake such a meeting! But with its proper importance. One of the larger revelations that Jesus made clear is that "church" is not a building, or a place - rather, _we_ are the church. We bring church to the building! This is so freeing.
@@TheTH-camGame- The first statement was what you thought Catholic teaching was. There was an honest caveat that explained the actual teaching. The rest of discussion argues against the first inaccurate statement, not actual Catholic teaching.
@@TheTH-camGame- The Bible is not clear that only a belief in Jesus alone is required to attain salvation. In fact, it's the opposite in many passages, throughout the entire Bible. Faith without works is not alive. (James 2) Whoever you learned the idea from has had to coral the discussion to a few out of context passages, primarily in Romans and Hebrews. Jesus Himself in Matthew warns that some people will not only believe in Him but preach and even exorcise demons in His name will be cast out into the darkness as workers of lawlessness. Clearly God is asking more than one belief and nothing else. Setting up prayer on a schedule is simply a good practice, as we both agree. Because we are fallen, again, the word obligation helps us with it's importance. Jesus insists we persevere at prayer. If it sounds like work, that's okay. Jesus is there to help us become like Him, not stay spiritual infants forever.
Not to mention the early church met at houses during the week without a necessarily set schedule. Sunday probably wasn't the Sabbath, and the Sabbath rest is an everyday thing in which we rest from our works and trust in Jesus' work.
![Lord of Spirits - Israel, I Choose You! [Ep. 103]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SVocbX5-lyM/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m a revert back to the Catholic Church. I spent many years in Assemblies of God Churches. When I was lead back to the Catholic Church I was amazed at how much scripture was a part of the mass. And the kneeling, bowing, praying together certain prayers-so much meant so much more to me. I will say the I brought a piece of my Pentecostal expression with me. I cannot help but sway during the singing. Man, are those Catholic hymns so powerful and meaningful!
The point you men brought up, about silence, reverence, that one should not expect a social gathering, this is so important for non Catholics to understand. My sister, who I am gently talking to about becoming Catholic, loves this aspect of the Mass. Whenever I am in town, she is more than eager to go to Mass with me. She has even gone on her own. She told me she has gone to other churches where congregants (probably greeters/ushers) were too intrusive. She said she goes for peace, solace, etc. I’m trying to convince her to go for the Eucharist. Great discussion
Fascinating absolutely. Converts have reignited The Bride of Christ.
I'm just in the middle of the video and It's been so heart coming.. So many questions I have, then this it make me see things in other ways I didn't realize.. I think I'm going to stop and meditate, and then I'll continue..
It was great listening to you. I was born and raised catholic and educated at a Jesuit school. I’m back to church now. And everything you say is true. Traditions and ritual have a deep meaning and are connected to our spirituality. It is also intended for unity.
oh my i feel the same way during consecration and prayers of the faithful
That's why we have to go and participate in the prayers at mass, even if we don't feel like going, because we have a duty to include our prayer (our "vote") in the prayers of the church that are being offered up. We aren't doing it for ourselves, necessarily, we're doing it for the Church and the community and the world.
Thank you Matt, Ken and Kenny. Always learn so much from you. You three are awesome!
Great discussion once again...one more point I like to add is the miracle that happens in the catholic church at every mass at eucharist when the bread and wine gets conveterd to the Body Blood soul and divinity of lord Jesus Christ
Great episode. Thank you!
thank you for this video, also please do not listen to haters in the comments ! God Bless you :)
Thank you for another episode:)
If there is a feeling after Mass that there are visitors and questions - someone from OCIA could make an announcement that there is a group who can answer questions in the hall.
This video is great,❤Canada
People wouldn’t say you had terrible taste if you take them to a Latin Mass.
If you can’t, show them a video of a TradMass and explained the continuity (if you can)
Instead of terrible taste they would be bewildered and wondering if people who seriously love Jesus care about understanding the Mass.
Listen to Dr Brant Pitre ( Catholic productions)give background to Sunday readings. He is awesome
Or go to Mass and listen to the priest give the Homily.
Where would you people think Christ presence is: in the elements, or in the believer?
You guys can be a Cathecist or you can be in the Knights of Columbus
What can you say about the Mmiracle of Lanciano and other Eucharistic Miracle where the consecrated host became flesh
I recently read a Catholic tract concerning Mass. I know this is a sharp, pointed thing to say within such a short buildup but I found it to be blasphemous. Why?
In short, to say that Christ is sacrificed again and again (now as a caveat it did explain that He does not 'die' again and again in the Mass, just that it is exactly equivalent as if it were happening again in the Mass,) is wholly missing the point of His sacrifice on the cross to begin with!
Heb 9:24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
Heb 9:25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another-
Heb 9:26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
Heb 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
I don't intend to change anyone's mind in a single comment, as I know there are layers to a belief system. But how can anyone ignore such a thing?
The tract went on to imply that missing a Mass was a mortal sin (unless for 'defined, reasonable reasons',) which was cause for a "bad death." Don't you see that this screams "works" and "self-righteousness," instead of wholly relying on Jesus' death and resurrection for salvation and entrance into heaven?
Help me understand these mis-steps, please!
I would say a help would be to take seriously the caveat. The argument is against the strawman, not the Catholic teaching.
About the Mass: We are commanded to love God and keep a Sabbath. To deliberately miss Mass is to turn our back on our relationship with God. Sickness/genuine inability is not deliberately ignoring God. It's also not a check box work that gets us to Heaven. People could faithfully attend Mass all their lives and still not inherit the Kingdom.
@@atrifle8364 What is the strawman that you claim I'm arguing against? I feel what I said was pretty clear.
Concerning Mass and your response:
"Holy writers recommend various excellent methods whereby we may make our salvation certain, and all these we should use to the best our ability. All agree, however, that the best and easiest of these means is the frequent assistance at Holy Mass." This quote is from the tract I read. This right here says that going to Mass helps in securing your salvation. This is the "work" I was referring to, among other things. The Bible is very clear that it's only Jesus, only belief and reliance on Him for the forgiveness of our sins (amongst other things He accomplished,) not "going to Mass" or "doing other things" that will get us into His good graces. But this says otherwise and seems to be common among the Catholic faith if this tract represents it. That's dangerous and will send people straight to hell!
I will agree you on your last statement, that there are those who could faithfully attend and still not inherit the kingdom. Just because you're there doesn't mean you believe. So that's something we agree on. You mention that it's not about a check box work - again, something else we agree on. I realize and recognize that your beliefs might not line up totally with what I read, and that you yourself don't represent the faith in its entirety. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to an obviously charged comment on my end. I'm genuinely distressed at what I read and haven't had a place to talk about it.
I will say this about relationship with God and Mass (and on my end, church in general:)
Keeping the Sabbath has nothing to do with being in a place on a given day. Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well in John chapter 4, verse 21, that those who will worship Him will not worship Him at a place or in a temple (physical location _only_ .) Paul writes to the Corinthians in 1st Corinthians chapter 6 verse 18 (and other places) that we (those who believe in Him) are the temple of the Holy Spirit (that He resides _in_ us!) In Hebrews chapter 4, the writer explains in a comparison that the rest is not about a day, but resting from our works just as God did His. In Paul's letter to the Colossians, chapter 3 verse 23, he writes that we are to do everything as unto the Lord. And many times in the Old Testament God emphasizes to the people that He wants their heart, not their service without any heart behind it! This is to worship God in Spirit and in Truth, as Jesus told the Samaritan woman in the same chapter of John from before. This is what it means to have a relationship with Him, to be submitted to Him wholly, giving Him our whole heart, mind, soul, and body just as He gave Himself for us! Every day is a Sabbath day, my friend! Every day!
As a caveat of my own, totally not against assembling somewhere on a given day to worship the Lord with other believers. It's healthy. In Hebrews 10 verses 23-25, the writer says not to forsake such a meeting! But with its proper importance. One of the larger revelations that Jesus made clear is that "church" is not a building, or a place - rather, _we_ are the church. We bring church to the building! This is so freeing.
@@TheTH-camGame- The first statement was what you thought Catholic teaching was. There was an honest caveat that explained the actual teaching. The rest of discussion argues against the first inaccurate statement, not actual Catholic teaching.
@@TheTH-camGame- The Bible is not clear that only a belief in Jesus alone is required to attain salvation. In fact, it's the opposite in many passages, throughout the entire Bible. Faith without works is not alive. (James 2) Whoever you learned the idea from has had to coral the discussion to a few out of context passages, primarily in Romans and Hebrews. Jesus Himself in Matthew warns that some people will not only believe in Him but preach and even exorcise demons in His name will be cast out into the darkness as workers of lawlessness. Clearly God is asking more than one belief and nothing else.
Setting up prayer on a schedule is simply a good practice, as we both agree. Because we are fallen, again, the word obligation helps us with it's importance. Jesus insists we persevere at prayer. If it sounds like work, that's okay. Jesus is there to help us become like Him, not stay spiritual infants forever.
Mess more like it.
Jesus never expected to be transformed into a baked wafer. He said the kingdom of God is within you. We are the true temple tgat he resides in.
Great insight once again from you three. I can relate to almost everything you shared as I continue on this chaotic journey.
Not to mention the early church met at houses during the week without a necessarily set schedule. Sunday probably wasn't the Sabbath, and the Sabbath rest is an everyday thing in which we rest from our works and trust in Jesus' work.
@TheTH-camGame they have rejected the Jewish scrolls and confused it with church fathers teachings.
@@TheTH-camGame- The early Church did not do that all. Sunday was the Sabbath.
Lord, please save us from the light within.
Where would you people think Christ presence is: in the elements, or in the believer?