If you enjoyed this video then please check out Rees at th-cam.com/users/ctrlaltrees and give him a sub You can watch a behind the scenes video of the making of this episode at th-cam.com/video/R5d11vmfbYE/w-d-xo.html There's a playlist of any items Rees has covered in more detail here th-cam.com/play/PLLJ-Nv_tKpJlQHsXVQh4wLRxSU4_jH_Js.html And of course...remember your Monster Joysticks at monsterjoysticks.com/RMC If you enjoy what I do then become an Official Cave Dweller at patreon.com/rmcretro Neil - RMC
Thanks so much for having me on Neil, I’ve created a playlist of everything here including a behind-the-scenes of the day’s filming: th-cam.com/play/PLLJ-Nv_tKpJlQHsXVQh4wLRxSU4_jH_Js.html - it was a real honour to be asked to be the first Show & Tell in the new cave, such an amazing space and I know people are going to love it when they can finally visit! 😁
I have an old Atari Pong C-100, still in the box and in perfect condition. Both box and console. In an interesting story, my parents bought the particular console as a gift for my grandpa around 1974. But my grandpa wasn’t interested and the console sat, in its box, with all original paperwork and even the birthday card my parents gave my grandpa, until about 2017 when I noticed it in my grandma’s closet and said “Do you know what that is??” She just let me have it, and as a kid who grew up obsessed with video games in the 80’s and 90’s, it’s something I really value.
@@fonkbadonk5370 From what I’ve been able to find, there were so many of the C-100 Pong console, that even in good condition in its original box, it’s not worth as much as I thought. But you’re right, it’s something with a family connection that I hold on to more for sentimental reasons. Growing up, neither my parents or grandparents ever seemed interested at all in video games, while I loved them. So the fact that something like that was a gift from my parents to my grandparents is fascinating to me.
@@cgimovieman Consider the possibility that at the time they were gifting it, many people might not even have known what "video games" were (as a category), nor had a fixed opinion of them. I guess they might have heard of Pong from the then-current craze, and the ability to give this totally new thing as a gift people could hook up to their own TV would have been totally novel. In a funny way though, it feels a little like a "what do you give the person who has everything" gift. Heck, it beats socks, ties and aftershave! :)
Interesting Atari Video music anecdote, WVOA a radio station in Syracuse NY, used an Atari Video music as their picture. They were what is know as a "franken FM" station. Channel 6 in the us happened to overlap into the bottom end of the FM band, so some low power stations would elect to market themselves as an FM station on 87.7mhz, but we're actually broadcasting a TV signal. Because they were required to transmit some kind of picture, they up until it's shutdown a few months ago, used an Atari Video music. If you search WVOA shutdown on here you can see it's last few minutes in service.
Back in 1973 I started working at Rediffusion in Norwich as an apprentice TV engineer. I was sent up to Nottingham to Rediffusion's main training centre and stayed in a hotel along with one of the others on the same training course. The hotel bar had one of the Pong machines which, if I remember correctly, cost something like 5p or 10p for a game. Because both of us playing it became equally as good as each other we could stretch a single game out for 20-30 minutes or even longer. During this we both mastered the ability to set the game up to keep the ball moving between two stationary bats (like the "Solitaire" game described in the video) - this was extremely useful when we had to get refills at the bar without actually stopping the game!
I live in New Jersey and had the 5200..I will always remember the commercial when the kid pressed the pause button to answer the phone. a pause button..I was blown away
As an Atari nut I loved this video. For a 4-player game on the 2600 have a go on Warlords, it's a great multiplayer game and as two paddles connect to a single joystick port you only need the standard two ports on a 2600/VCS or even 2800.
As a kid in the 70s, Pong was a wonder of the future! There was plenty to do in the 70s, just not in the computer/tv sense. Anything like Pong was amazing : )
What an amazing episode guys! Interesting to see old "inventions" come back later in Atari's history. Like the "telephone keypad" of the 5200 controller, which reappeared with the Jaguar. And this really interesting 2800 controller made a comeback (concept wise) with the classic controller of the actual Atari VCS (combined joystick and paddle)! Wow, this 5200 trakball looks amazing! Why does it have two sets of numpads and fire buttons, as obviously only one person can play? According the insane size of the 5200... I would guess that the PS5 is a strong competitor! 😁
I can off the top of my head think of only two games that had 4 player onscreen action at the same time. Video Olympics and Warlords. Then again there weren't that many paddle games released.
Warlords is a 4 player game, the original paddles came as a set of two with one input. Should try plugging all 4 of those fancy 2800 paddles with Warlords loaded.
An absolutely gorgeous collection! Quite enjoyed the tour. We all know Atari made a lot of baffling decisions in their corporate history but I don't know what they were thinking with the 5200 joysticks. They had a great system overall that was totally let down by that. If they even had something like a toggle button for the self-centering, it would have made such an incredibly difference.
They were probably thinking "analog can do more than digital!", which is true enough, but "drift" is included in that "more", so if you don't incorporate compensatory measures...
It was partly the era, ie throw a lot of new different things at the wall and see what sticks . Everyone was trying to stand out from the crowd And in Ataris defense, analog sticks, many non self centering, were common on computers in the USA in the late 70s through the 80s- pc, apple2, Tandy/radio shack trs and cocos, etc Also I suspect Atari was trying to appeal to the computer user crowd or try to appear upscale to consumers
IMO, Atari could have had a hit if the 5200 had used Atari 8 bit computer game carts from the start, while including the disk drive sio port for later upgrade to disk or cassette games Oh, that was the xegs 5 YEARS LATER!?
What a coincidence! A great supplement show (or vice versa) is GTV's latest episode on the History of Atari in Japan. I recommend anyone interested in the 2800 to go and check that episode out right after this one. Its great to see the Retro Man Cave return to normal programming again! Cheers!
I quite enjoyed that episode. Thanks chaps for that one! I follow both of you separately but seeing you together I can see something there, if Rees would relax a bit :) Rees is your way into the Atari world Neil! Would love to see you two do more episodes together. I worked for a short time with Atari during the Atari Lynx and Jaguar days, grew up with Pong and the 2600. The 5200 is my brown jewel and it is a MASSIVE statement of a console. I also have the trackball for it which is pure joy to use. I miss those days...
The four ports on the 2800 might well be because the original 2600 supported 4 player games with the paddle controllers. The paddle controllers in the box when you bought it, were a pair, sprouting from a single joystick lead. So if you bought a second pair, that would plug into port 2 and you could play... I suppose Warlords, with 4 players. There may have been more 4-player paddle games, I dunno. But since the paddles on the 2800 came mounted on a stick and took up one port each, you'd need some way of adaptorising all of this up. I presume that's how they did it, wiring the relevant pins to the relevant internal hardware, so they'd be completely compatible at a hardware level. I think the paddles' fire button was wired to joystick-right on the port, obviously you couldn't have a joystick and paddles plugged into the same port at once on the original 2600. So the "Paddle / Joystick" button on the machine's front panel presumably takes care of that, and remaps the pins concerned. Possibly it does this through AND gates, and perhaps maps the analogue pot through an analogue switch IC. A multi-flipflop IC stores the status of the push buttons with their LEDs. That'll be what all that small microchips are on the board, normally a 2600 just has 3 big chips, the CPU, the TIA, and RIOT, and perhaps a few little bits and pieces. To incorporate these extra features on the 2800 would require a few extra, but pretty cheap , ICs. Although using push buttons rather than switches for things like difficulty might be a bit confusing, it could be useful in some games, like Activision's Ghostbusters, where P2 difficulty drops ghost bait, for example. Or Space Shuttle where every button has some confusing purpose. In Star Raiders the same, except that came with a special keypad included that did the same functions, setting shields on and off, galaxy map etc. Actually 2600 Star Raiders was pretty good. Possibly the best game on the Atari 8-bits, certainly the best launch game. The 2600 version wasn't badly cut down, the galaxy map was smaller but not much was missing. The keypad was wired the same as the "basic programming" one, and also as the Sesame Street keypad, so any could replace any. To look at it was in the middle of both, size-wise it was in between, aesthetically it had rubber touch buttons rather than the clicky "basic programming" one. It came with an overlay for Star Raiders and others were planned but I dunno if any were ever made. "basic programming" (*not* BASIC programming!) is a wasted opportunity. No extra RAM on the cart so you're limited to the 2600's built-in 128 bytes and some of that was needed for it's internal functions. Very little printing to the screen cos again, RAM shortage. You could almost write a program that would move a dot left and right, but run out of space and only manage left. Fantastic! Somebody should create a decent BASIC for it with extra RAM. Actually a few companies did. And failed. Never mind! The resulting devices, including membrane keyboards of their own, are super-rare now. Usually came with about 2K RAM so almost as pathetic as "basic programming" but not quite. Like a ZX81 with colour graphics but no text!
Way back then, my dad bought an Atari 5200. I remember him sitting and playing centipede after he got home from work. He was almost addicted to that game. ha. I was in my bedroom on my VIC-20. Those were the days.
I'm betting that on that Japanese 2800, that 'Joystick/Paddle' switch on the console actually switches around how the ports work, in order to 1) allow 4 player paddle games to be played (hence the 4 ports), since the original paddle controllers were connected to a VCS/2600 as a pair to a single controller port, and also maybe 2) do something to stop pressing left (or right?) on the joystick from being read as a paddle fire button since they shared a common pin.
Wonderful video! Thank you so much for the photosensitive seizure Warning, it's tremendously appreciated. Still fantastic information and engaging discussion between you and your Guest even with audio only. BTW I came to here from a shout out from Ashens. I can't wait to ,binge' all your videos!
Maybes it looks great in person but on this video it was giving me a headache. Assuming that is something to do with the scan rate and flicker coming from the TV's screen that the camera is picking up on.
I had the Atari 800 which I kept and took with me to college in 1986. When it got damaged while doing a paper, I purchased a 130 XE to finish. I loved both including the latter. However, by then, I had used a Mac running Quark XPress at the college newspaper and that gave me a glimpse of the future.All the features we have on MS Word today were there and more. I purchased my own Mac Centris in 1993 and loved it. I never purchased an Atari after the 130. Thinking of the computer still gives me good memories. I had made a game which I submitted for copyright. Id love to have it tried on one of these shows. God bless.
Excellent episode. Very enjoyable indeed. I like the Roberts RM20 radio too, it would look nice next to the Rambler and the RFM3 that I have on my shelf.
Some interesting facts missing from your discussion of the Atari 5200 console: The controllers in addition to be doing very poorly designed with no self-centering , they also where poorly manufactured and tended to break way to easily. Nowdays it very hard to find a pair of the controllers still in perfect working order. Another interesting fact and “defect” of the original model of the Atari 5200 was the way they design the power supply and RF converter. In the 1st gen model of the 5200, power supply connects to the RF converter box and then then power goes into a shared cable that connects to the console that also serves as the RF output path. Thus in one direction is DC current and the other is an RF signal to the TV with some sort of circuit within the RF box that blocks the DC from going into the TV’s antenna jack. This created the potential problem where the RF converter box goes back and you can’t simply just replace it with. Generic model since the power supply must also connect to it too thus forcing you to locate an Atari 5200 model if one is available or making your own mod of a generic model to add a power input jack. Atari was not the first to choose this design as a Pong console clone from the 70’s was the first game console to adopt this weird way of providing power but it was pretty dumb. I think the likely reason they thought this was a good idea was that it allowed the power cable and RF box to be hidden behind the TV with only one cable coming out to the console. This would allow you to more easily bring the console closer to your couch/chair or where you where sitting on the floor/rug. Fortunately Atari realized the potential issues with this and made a 2nd gen version of the 5200 with a standard DC power jack in back and a standard RF box. Another interesting thing about the 5200 was that Atari didn’t invest a lot of resources into making good games for the system and neither did a lot of third parties. This was partly due to the 2600 being very popular still when the 5200 came out and they didn’t want to spend too much money on 5200 games at the expense of 2600 games that could vastly outsell any 5200 games. While 5200 did initially sell well, the lack of games support helped kill it along with the video game crash of 1982. One final nail in the 5200’s coffin was the fact that out of the box it did not support playing 2600 games (an issue they corrected with the successor 7800) through they did eventually come out with a accessory to allow 2600 game to be played on the 5200 but it was too little too late.
I remember seeing the ABAQ / ATW-800 (Atari Transputer Workstation) at a trade show back in 1989 or 1990, it was rendering a flight through a most impressive 3D fractal landscape in real-time. They were also showing the Atari Portfolio in the same booth, which was the first palmtop MS-DOS PC. It would be nice if you could show us those one day.
Yep, Devo had Atari music box visualizing in the background of "The day my baby gave me a surprise". Briefly. Although their visualization had a bit more color, somehow, I think.
Great video! My first gaming system was a Sears Tele-games branded Pong IV, the pinnacle of gaming at the time :). I loved your quick Tenacious D reference as well, classic.
Great episode, thanks guys! The Sparrow part was the most interesting to me, seeing that prototype board, but the Japanese 2800 was also great. Hope to see some more episodes with the both of you, it works out pretty well! Cheers!
Yes, Wico made both stand-alone digital sticks for the 5200 like the battop and an interface box that allows simultaneous use of the 5200 stick for the number and function buttons, and a 9 pin digital stick
Loving those comparative measurements with the 5200. I’m going to start using ‘an XBox and an Atari Lynx wide’ as a unit of measure 😂 Great video! I so badly want one of those music video systems!
I had never heard of the Atari music visualizer thing. That's definitely some serious 70s hi-fi system look for sure. The 5200's major issue was it's lack of backwards compatibility for sure.
You can play 4 player paddle games like Warlords. The paddles came in pairs with two on each port on normal 2600s Super Breakout was the original 5200 pack in game. That was more suited to the controllers
I'm pretty sure Warlords for the 2600 supported four players. I think there were break-out cables that turned each port into two, though very few games actually supported them, obviously.
Something that bears discussion with the Atari Video Music is the video music program built in to the Atari Jaguar CD. Just put a music CD in your Jag CD and see what it can do! It's neat that Atari brought that forward to the Jaguar.
I loved my 5200, when the joysticks were working. I probably bought 20 joysticks over the 5 years I had it. The trackball was excellent. If they had built a joystick as good as the trackball, the 5200 could've been a huge success. I wish I still had it now that there are fixes for the problems.
Your capacity test was very interesting! Now I'm going to check how much food can hold my vintage computers. First attempt: My IBM RS/6000 Model 250 in pizza box format can't hold a pizza actually, but several Twix bars and a sausage.
Were there 4 joystick ports to support games that used 4 paddles, like Warlords? Originally, the paddles used one connection for two paddle devices, so they would have needed 4 ports to support 4 of the joysticks that also serve as a single paddle.
I might be too late for the challenge, but I think the Pioneer LaserActive is a great contender for being bigger than the 5200. Great video, as always.
Loved this episode. I'm an Atari kid from the early 80s here in Australia, starting with a 2600 and then going straight to a 1040STFM. I love the shorter size of the 260ST, so much space saved by putting the PSU and floppy on the outside. So cool to see that Sparrow board. Do we know if any Panther boards were made (the cancelled 32bit console before the Jaguar)?
I had a Grandstand pong clone. Black and white only, 4 games(tennis, football, squash and solo squash). The game sounds came out of a speaker in the console not the TV. The controllers were removable from the console unit so you didn't have to be up close to the screen.
1 second ago I remember the commercial for the Atari 5200 back in the day. Outside of better graphics than the 2600, I think it’s claim to fame was that the game could be paused? In the commercial the teen paused the game and picked up a phone call or something, which was something I hadn’t seen up to that point.
A great episode from the cave for me, having a collection of 3 1040 STf, 3 520 STe, a Falcon, 2 Amiga 500 and a Spectrum 48k. Plus a bunch of PCs. Sadly I`m too much of an introvert to do videos about them..
There were original 2600 4-player games. Notably Warlords and Video Olympics. I don’t know if there were any 4-player joystick games, or just paddle games. Two paddles plugged into one port.
There would not be enough pins available to support two digital joysticks and fire button on the same d9 plug. The hardware could not support multiplexing them. The paddle is analog and so only required one pin. There were 2 analog pins per each plug.
I almost think that exact 5200 could of had been in my posession years ago. Because of his comments about the box smelling damp. I found it in a thrift, complete with box, booklets, 3 controllers and an extra flex circuit for the controller. I think it only had PacMan. That smell I couldnt get out of the box, I sat it in the sun, kept it out in open air, nothing worked (today I would use vinegar). Even a roomate commented on its smell, when it was sitting out. I ended up selling it on ebay, forgetting to note that to the buyer, they mentioned it... and didn't get a good or bad review. Looks like they resold it later, and now Im seeing it on your show. Same with my old ColecoVision that I shipped directly to that collector in Australia... just WILD 🙃 Edit: nevermind, the one I sold was the 4 port version. The back lid wasnt textured.
The Atari 5200 was my first gaming console and it was far superior to the 2600, but the video game crash and less demand caused a lack of games and developers abandoning it. My Dad took me to a department store and bought every remaining game they had when they were discontinuing games for the 5200. The one major downside was the controllers would break easily. I would move on to Sega, Nintendo, and computers but there is a special retro place in my heart for the 5200.
Good video of two of the powerhouses of retro technology. Not sure what tech was in the 7800 over the 5200, but the games do look better than the earlier machine?
You showed pictures of it but didn't explain it. What does the Pong "Battery Eliminator" do? I'm guessing it's maybe a mains connector for something that usually runs on battery in the standard boxed system?
i absolutely want to get an Atari ST (im in the United States though so NTSC systems are rather hard to come by) even a little more so than an Amiga for my collection (mainly for its MSDOS compatible Floppy disk drive for easier file transfers)
Not yet, we had the soft launch day which went well and then more Covid restrictions because of Omicron, we’re just about to release the dates and ticket system for public days
I remember pong and lots of variations of it on an orange console that came with 2 separate control knobs and I think a shooting game that didn't seem to work properly. Anyone know what I'm on about???
If you enjoyed this video then please check out Rees at th-cam.com/users/ctrlaltrees and give him a sub
You can watch a behind the scenes video of the making of this episode at th-cam.com/video/R5d11vmfbYE/w-d-xo.html
There's a playlist of any items Rees has covered in more detail here th-cam.com/play/PLLJ-Nv_tKpJlQHsXVQh4wLRxSU4_jH_Js.html
And of course...remember your Monster Joysticks at monsterjoysticks.com/RMC
If you enjoy what I do then become an Official Cave Dweller at patreon.com/rmcretro
Neil - RMC
Thanks so much for having me on Neil, I’ve created a playlist of everything here including a behind-the-scenes of the day’s filming: th-cam.com/play/PLLJ-Nv_tKpJlQHsXVQh4wLRxSU4_jH_Js.html - it was a real honour to be asked to be the first Show & Tell in the new cave, such an amazing space and I know people are going to love it when they can finally visit! 😁
I have an old Atari Pong C-100, still in the box and in perfect condition. Both box and console. In an interesting story, my parents bought the particular console as a gift for my grandpa around 1974. But my grandpa wasn’t interested and the console sat, in its box, with all original paperwork and even the birthday card my parents gave my grandpa, until about 2017 when I noticed it in my grandma’s closet and said “Do you know what that is??” She just let me have it, and as a kid who grew up obsessed with video games in the 80’s and 90’s, it’s something I really value.
I'd imagine that, aside from the immense sentimental value for you in particular, a mint C-100 must be fairly sought after and well priced as well!
@@fonkbadonk5370 From what I’ve been able to find, there were so many of the C-100 Pong console, that even in good condition in its original box, it’s not worth as much as I thought. But you’re right, it’s something with a family connection that I hold on to more for sentimental reasons. Growing up, neither my parents or grandparents ever seemed interested at all in video games, while I loved them. So the fact that something like that was a gift from my parents to my grandparents is fascinating to me.
@@cgimovieman Consider the possibility that at the time they were gifting it, many people might not even have known what "video games" were (as a category), nor had a fixed opinion of them. I guess they might have heard of Pong from the then-current craze, and the ability to give this totally new thing as a gift people could hook up to their own TV would have been totally novel. In a funny way though, it feels a little like a "what do you give the person who has everything" gift. Heck, it beats socks, ties and aftershave! :)
Interesting Atari Video music anecdote, WVOA a radio station in Syracuse NY, used an Atari Video music as their picture. They were what is know as a "franken FM" station. Channel 6 in the us happened to overlap into the bottom end of the FM band, so some low power stations would elect to market themselves as an FM station on 87.7mhz, but we're actually broadcasting a TV signal. Because they were required to transmit some kind of picture, they up until it's shutdown a few months ago, used an Atari Video music. If you search WVOA shutdown on here you can see it's last few minutes in service.
Oh wow, that's a really cool story. Thanks for sharing!
Back in 1973 I started working at Rediffusion in Norwich as an apprentice TV engineer. I was sent up to Nottingham to Rediffusion's main training centre and stayed in a hotel along with one of the others on the same training course. The hotel bar had one of the Pong machines which, if I remember correctly, cost something like 5p or 10p for a game. Because both of us playing it became equally as good as each other we could stretch a single game out for 20-30 minutes or even longer. During this we both mastered the ability to set the game up to keep the ball moving between two stationary bats (like the "Solitaire" game described in the video) - this was extremely useful when we had to get refills at the bar without actually stopping the game!
I live in New Jersey and had the 5200..I will always remember the commercial when the kid pressed the pause button to answer the phone. a pause button..I was blown away
That greatest game of Pong in the world must have been very Tenacious.
This is not....
the greatest game in the wo - horld...
no!
this is just a tribute
:-D
I can't ever get enough Atari! These early products really were the start of something special. 😍
Haha thanks Bob 😁
As an Atari nut I loved this video.
For a 4-player game on the 2600 have a go on Warlords, it's a great multiplayer game and as two paddles connect to a single joystick port you only need the standard two ports on a 2600/VCS or even 2800.
love RMC. seems like the videos get better and better and they were pretty great to begin with
Great to see a collaboration between two of my favourite channels. Excellent stuff.
Great to finally see Rees in the cave, and another show and tell!!
As a kid in the 70s, Pong was a wonder of the future! There was plenty to do in the 70s, just not in the computer/tv sense. Anything like Pong was amazing : )
In a way, Atari did make 4-player Breakout. It's called Warlords.
Great video - Always liked the design of the early ST's
What an amazing episode guys! Interesting to see old "inventions" come back later in Atari's history. Like the "telephone keypad" of the 5200 controller, which reappeared with the Jaguar. And this really interesting 2800 controller made a comeback (concept wise) with the classic controller of the actual Atari VCS (combined joystick and paddle)!
Wow, this 5200 trakball looks amazing! Why does it have two sets of numpads and fire buttons, as obviously only one person can play?
According the insane size of the 5200... I would guess that the PS5 is a strong competitor! 😁
The four ports on the 2800 must be to enable four paddles to play 4 player "warlords" amongst others as the 2600 paddles plugged 2 into each port
I can off the top of my head think of only two games that had 4 player onscreen action at the same time. Video Olympics and Warlords. Then again there weren't that many paddle games released.
The 2600 paddles have two paddles for one port. All 2600's support four paddles because of this.
Warlords is a 4 player game, the original paddles came as a set of two with one input. Should try plugging all 4 of those fancy 2800 paddles with Warlords loaded.
An absolutely gorgeous collection! Quite enjoyed the tour.
We all know Atari made a lot of baffling decisions in their corporate history but I don't know what they were thinking with the 5200 joysticks. They had a great system overall that was totally let down by that. If they even had something like a toggle button for the self-centering, it would have made such an incredibly difference.
They were probably thinking "analog can do more than digital!", which is true enough, but "drift" is included in that "more", so if you don't incorporate compensatory measures...
It was partly the era, ie throw a lot of new different things at the wall and see what sticks . Everyone was trying to stand out from the crowd
And in Ataris defense, analog sticks, many non self centering, were common on computers in the USA in the late 70s through the 80s- pc, apple2, Tandy/radio shack trs and cocos, etc
Also I suspect Atari was trying to appeal to the computer user crowd or try to appear upscale to consumers
IMO, Atari could have had a hit if the 5200 had used Atari 8 bit computer game carts from the start, while including the disk drive sio port for later upgrade to disk or cassette games
Oh, that was the xegs 5 YEARS LATER!?
Legend says that the muffin and the Mars bar are still in that 5200 to this day . . .
I took them home with me, Neil still hasn't figured it out
What a coincidence! A great supplement show (or vice versa) is GTV's latest episode on the History of Atari in Japan. I recommend anyone interested in the 2800 to go and check that episode out right after this one.
Its great to see the Retro Man Cave return to normal programming again! Cheers!
I quite enjoyed that episode. Thanks chaps for that one! I follow both of you separately but seeing you together I can see something there, if Rees would relax a bit :) Rees is your way into the Atari world Neil! Would love to see you two do more episodes together. I worked for a short time with Atari during the Atari Lynx and Jaguar days, grew up with Pong and the 2600. The 5200 is my brown jewel and it is a MASSIVE statement of a console. I also have the trackball for it which is pure joy to use. I miss those days...
The four ports on the 2800 might well be because the original 2600 supported 4 player games with the paddle controllers. The paddle controllers in the box when you bought it, were a pair, sprouting from a single joystick lead. So if you bought a second pair, that would plug into port 2 and you could play... I suppose Warlords, with 4 players. There may have been more 4-player paddle games, I dunno.
But since the paddles on the 2800 came mounted on a stick and took up one port each, you'd need some way of adaptorising all of this up. I presume that's how they did it, wiring the relevant pins to the relevant internal hardware, so they'd be completely compatible at a hardware level. I think the paddles' fire button was wired to joystick-right on the port, obviously you couldn't have a joystick and paddles plugged into the same port at once on the original 2600. So the "Paddle / Joystick" button on the machine's front panel presumably takes care of that, and remaps the pins concerned.
Possibly it does this through AND gates, and perhaps maps the analogue pot through an analogue switch IC. A multi-flipflop IC stores the status of the push buttons with their LEDs. That'll be what all that small microchips are on the board, normally a 2600 just has 3 big chips, the CPU, the TIA, and RIOT, and perhaps a few little bits and pieces. To incorporate these extra features on the 2800 would require a few extra, but pretty cheap , ICs.
Although using push buttons rather than switches for things like difficulty might be a bit confusing, it could be useful in some games, like Activision's Ghostbusters, where P2 difficulty drops ghost bait, for example. Or Space Shuttle where every button has some confusing purpose. In Star Raiders the same, except that came with a special keypad included that did the same functions, setting shields on and off, galaxy map etc.
Actually 2600 Star Raiders was pretty good. Possibly the best game on the Atari 8-bits, certainly the best launch game. The 2600 version wasn't badly cut down, the galaxy map was smaller but not much was missing. The keypad was wired the same as the "basic programming" one, and also as the Sesame Street keypad, so any could replace any. To look at it was in the middle of both, size-wise it was in between, aesthetically it had rubber touch buttons rather than the clicky "basic programming" one. It came with an overlay for Star Raiders and others were planned but I dunno if any were ever made.
"basic programming" (*not* BASIC programming!) is a wasted opportunity. No extra RAM on the cart so you're limited to the 2600's built-in 128 bytes and some of that was needed for it's internal functions. Very little printing to the screen cos again, RAM shortage. You could almost write a program that would move a dot left and right, but run out of space and only manage left. Fantastic! Somebody should create a decent BASIC for it with extra RAM. Actually a few companies did. And failed. Never mind! The resulting devices, including membrane keyboards of their own, are super-rare now. Usually came with about 2K RAM so almost as pathetic as "basic programming" but not quite. Like a ZX81 with colour graphics but no text!
Way back then, my dad bought an Atari 5200. I remember him sitting and playing centipede after he got home from work. He was almost addicted to that game. ha. I was in my bedroom on my VIC-20. Those were the days.
I'm betting that on that Japanese 2800, that 'Joystick/Paddle' switch on the console actually switches around how the ports work, in order to 1) allow 4 player paddle games to be played (hence the 4 ports), since the original paddle controllers were connected to a VCS/2600 as a pair to a single controller port, and also maybe 2) do something to stop pressing left (or right?) on the joystick from being read as a paddle fire button since they shared a common pin.
That was my assumption when they said it was four ports, too.
The Sony Playstation 2 used the same case design as the Atari Falcon030 MicroBox. Its patents description mentions Atari.
Wonderful video! Thank you so much for the photosensitive seizure Warning, it's tremendously appreciated. Still fantastic information and engaging discussion between you and your Guest even with audio only. BTW I came to here from a shout out from Ashens. I can't wait to ,binge' all your videos!
01:49 I hope techmoan is taking note of this.....
Some awesome Atari history there. Great seeing CTRL+ALT+REES at RMC, and also seeing the Cave being put to great use with a neat exhibition like this!
Wow, that music visualizer is one of the coolest things I've ever seen on this channel! Had never heard of it.
Techmoan did a great video on it where he describes it as "The Migraine Machine" - a very appropriate nickname 😆
Maybes it looks great in person but on this video it was giving me a headache. Assuming that is something to do with the scan rate and flicker coming from the TV's screen that the camera is picking up on.
A fine return to form. Enjoyed it a lot.
I had the Atari 800 which I kept and took with me to college in 1986. When it got damaged while doing a paper, I purchased a 130 XE to finish. I loved both including the latter. However, by then, I had used a Mac running Quark XPress at the college newspaper and that gave me a glimpse of the future.All the features we have on MS Word today were there and more. I purchased my own Mac Centris in 1993 and loved it. I never purchased an Atari after the 130. Thinking of the computer still gives me good memories. I had made a game which I submitted for copyright. Id love to have it tried on one of these shows. God bless.
I loved the music visualiser on the 3DO, I used it all the time when I was a teenager 😂 This Atari machine is awesome!
Excellent episode. Very enjoyable indeed. I like the Roberts RM20 radio too, it would look nice next to the Rambler and the RFM3 that I have on my shelf.
Some interesting facts missing from your discussion of the Atari 5200 console: The controllers in addition to be doing very poorly designed with no self-centering , they also where poorly manufactured and tended to break way to easily. Nowdays it very hard to find a pair of the controllers still in perfect working order. Another interesting fact and “defect” of the original model of the Atari 5200 was the way they design the power supply and RF converter. In the 1st gen model of the 5200, power supply connects to the RF converter box and then then power goes into a shared cable that connects to the console that also serves as the RF output path. Thus in one direction is DC current and the other is an RF signal to the TV with some sort of circuit within the RF box that blocks the DC from going into the TV’s antenna jack. This created the potential problem where the RF converter box goes back and you can’t simply just replace it with. Generic model since the power supply must also connect to it too thus forcing you to locate an Atari 5200 model if one is available or making your own mod of a generic model to add a power input jack. Atari was not the first to choose this design as a Pong console clone from the 70’s was the first game console to adopt this weird way of providing power but it was pretty dumb. I think the likely reason they thought this was a good idea was that it allowed the power cable and RF box to be hidden behind the TV with only one cable coming out to the console. This would allow you to more easily bring the console closer to your couch/chair or where you where sitting on the floor/rug. Fortunately Atari realized the potential issues with this and made a 2nd gen version of the 5200 with a standard DC power jack in back and a standard RF box.
Another interesting thing about the 5200 was that Atari didn’t invest a lot of resources into making good games for the system and neither did a lot of third parties. This was partly due to the 2600 being very popular still when the 5200 came out and they didn’t want to spend too much money on 5200 games at the expense of 2600 games that could vastly outsell any 5200 games. While 5200 did initially sell well, the lack of games support helped kill it along with the video game crash of 1982.
One final nail in the 5200’s coffin was the fact that out of the box it did not support playing 2600 games (an issue they corrected with the successor 7800) through they did eventually come out with a accessory to allow 2600 game to be played on the 5200 but it was too little too late.
I remember seeing the ABAQ / ATW-800 (Atari Transputer Workstation) at a trade show back in 1989 or 1990, it was rendering a flight through a most impressive 3D fractal landscape in real-time. They were also showing the Atari Portfolio in the same booth, which was the first palmtop MS-DOS PC. It would be nice if you could show us those one day.
Yep, Devo had Atari music box visualizing in the background of "The day my baby gave me a surprise". Briefly.
Although their visualization had a bit more color, somehow, I think.
watched this video a few times, love Rees dedication to the Atari machines
Love RMC
Nice. The best Atari that not many have heard of is the 520 STE+. That is an STE with Intel 286 and built in HDD in a mostly normal STE case.
Would love one for the collection!
Great video! My first gaming system was a Sears Tele-games branded Pong IV, the pinnacle of gaming at the time :). I loved your quick Tenacious D reference as well, classic.
Atari 400 has 4 joystick ports the same as the 800
One version of the CD-I is about the same size as the 5200. The one that has the controller plugs in the BACK.
Amazing seeing that proto pacman ! That is the content I subscribed for !
Fascinating episode loved it
Great episode, thanks guys! The Sparrow part was the most interesting to me, seeing that prototype board, but the Japanese 2800 was also great. Hope to see some more episodes with the both of you, it works out pretty well! Cheers!
Yes, Wico made both stand-alone digital sticks for the 5200 like the battop and an interface box that allows simultaneous use of the 5200 stick for the number and function buttons, and a 9 pin digital stick
Really entertaining and informative video. Love that Atari video music system!
Loving those comparative measurements with the 5200. I’m going to start using ‘an XBox and an Atari Lynx wide’ as a unit of measure 😂
Great video! I so badly want one of those music video systems!
I had never heard of the Atari music visualizer thing. That's definitely some serious 70s hi-fi system look for sure.
The 5200's major issue was it's lack of backwards compatibility for sure.
There is a rare 2600 converter someone featured on TH-cam
Wow, love vids like this. Seeing the history, unique hardware, etc. Great job.
That rendition of Peter Gunn on the 2800/2600 pretty awesome
I got my 5200 joysticks to work only once and I used them to play Pole Position and Centipede. Honesty, they were actually fun to use in those games.
You can play 4 player paddle games like Warlords. The paddles came in pairs with two on each port on normal 2600s
Super Breakout was the original 5200 pack in game. That was more suited to the controllers
Warlords is super fun, too. Definitely in the Top 10 Best Atari 2600 game list.
That say bye bye moment is a classic 👍🏼😁
Atari Falcon 030 was my dream machine in my youth. They go for thousands on fleaBay in good condition now. Madness!
I'm pretty sure Warlords for the 2600 supported four players. I think there were break-out cables that turned each port into two, though very few games actually supported them, obviously.
The manual shows that Warlords uses paddle controllers so it would only require two controller ports for four players.
Mind boggling that Atari didn't rush out a digital joystick for the 5200 knowing how upset people were. Huge, disappointing fail.
Something that bears discussion with the Atari Video Music is the video music program built in to the Atari Jaguar CD. Just put a music CD in your Jag CD and see what it can do! It's neat that Atari brought that forward to the Jaguar.
I loved my 5200, when the joysticks were working. I probably bought 20 joysticks over the 5 years I had it. The trackball was excellent. If they had built a joystick as good as the trackball, the 5200 could've been a huge success. I wish I still had it now that there are fixes for the problems.
Your capacity test was very interesting! Now I'm going to check how much food can hold my vintage computers. First attempt: My IBM RS/6000 Model 250 in pizza box format can't hold a pizza actually, but several Twix bars and a sausage.
Hmmm, the design of the packages of the pong stood the test of time very well
Were there 4 joystick ports to support games that used 4 paddles, like Warlords? Originally, the paddles used one connection for two paddle devices, so they would have needed 4 ports to support 4 of the joysticks that also serve as a single paddle.
Lovely stuff chaps! Cosy and informative!
If you combine vintage 1977 tech with 2022 commodity computers, can you party like it's 1999?
I might be too late for the challenge, but I think the Pioneer LaserActive is a great contender for being bigger than the 5200.
Great video, as always.
OMG, I loved this episode so much!!!!
Loved this episode. I'm an Atari kid from the early 80s here in Australia, starting with a 2600 and then going straight to a 1040STFM. I love the shorter size of the 260ST, so much space saved by putting the PSU and floppy on the outside. So cool to see that Sparrow board. Do we know if any Panther boards were made (the cancelled 32bit console before the Jaguar)?
I had a Grandstand pong clone. Black and white only, 4 games(tennis, football, squash and solo squash). The game sounds came out of a speaker in the console not the TV. The controllers were removable from the console unit so you didn't have to be up close to the screen.
39:00 Bil Herd tells a few stories from Commodore where they stripped old boards for chips.
Great video! I do have to chuckle that a 1 of 5 motherboard is wrapped in bubble wrap though lol 😅
Only owned a 2600 growing up but darn are those classic atari sounds coming off the 2800 nostalgia inducing.
Woodgrain... hmmm LGR would approve
Music Visualiser... Techmoan would approve too 😁😁
1 second ago
I remember the commercial for the Atari 5200 back in the day. Outside of better graphics than the 2600, I think it’s claim to fame was that the game could be paused? In the commercial the teen paused the game and picked up a phone call or something, which was something I hadn’t seen up to that point.
A great episode from the cave for me, having a collection of 3 1040 STf, 3 520 STe, a Falcon, 2 Amiga 500 and a Spectrum 48k. Plus a bunch of PCs. Sadly I`m too much of an introvert to do videos about them..
"Warlords" was supposed to support 4 players, right? But I think you could plug 2 paddles into 1 port, so you still wouldn't need 4 ports.
Correct ;-)
Two paddles are wired to the same plug. So with two sets you can have 4 players.
They atari 2800 was sold un Argentina too. I have one.. still working 😁
There were original 2600 4-player games. Notably Warlords and Video Olympics. I don’t know if there were any 4-player joystick games, or just paddle games. Two paddles plugged into one port.
I'd forgotten that Video Olympics could have 4 players; that'd be a fun one, too. (It's a collection of Pong variants for anyone not familiar.)
There would not be enough pins available to support two digital joysticks and fire button on the same d9 plug. The hardware could not support multiplexing them. The paddle is analog and so only required one pin. There were 2 analog pins per each plug.
That 260ST would still look good being released today.
I almost think that exact 5200 could of had been in my posession years ago. Because of his comments about the box smelling damp.
I found it in a thrift, complete with box, booklets, 3 controllers and an extra flex circuit for the controller. I think it only had PacMan.
That smell I couldnt get out of the box, I sat it in the sun, kept it out in open air, nothing worked (today I would use vinegar). Even a roomate commented on its smell, when it was sitting out.
I ended up selling it on ebay, forgetting to note that to the buyer, they mentioned it... and didn't get a good or bad review.
Looks like they resold it later, and now Im seeing it on your show. Same with my old ColecoVision that I shipped directly to that collector in Australia... just WILD 🙃
Edit: nevermind, the one I sold was the 4 port version. The back lid wasnt textured.
Nice music picks for the visualizer. Junglist massive!
The Atari 5200 was my first gaming console and it was far superior to the 2600, but the video game crash and less demand caused a lack of games and developers abandoning it. My Dad took me to a department store and bought every remaining game they had when they were discontinuing games for the 5200. The one major downside was the controllers would break easily. I would move on to Sega, Nintendo, and computers but there is a special retro place in my heart for the 5200.
How about combining that music visualizer with a gen-lock and a nice demo.. Extra evil points if you do it with an Amiga!
How dare you even suggest such an unholy alliance 😅
@@ctrlaltrees I know.. I'm a sick and twisted individual..
Shout out to Rees's "Work event" jab. Neil refusing to comment made this land even better! 😘
Great job! I think maybe the XEGS with keyboard attached has a bigger footprint than does the 5200, but I doubt it's heavier.
Isn't warlords 4 player with 4 paddles?
🎼This is not the greatest Pong™️ in the world no!
This is just a tribute.
D-lightful.
I've never seen a 5200 in person, I was thinking, "it's not that big..." Then you put an Xbox and LYNX on top!
The 4 ports on the 2800 were only so that you could play 4 player paddle games like Warlords or Video Olympics with the combo paddle-joysticks.
Can confirm I've watched the display off of DVD player's 'bouncing logo' screen saver, waiting for the perfect bounce.
Such a cool collection
Good video of two of the powerhouses of retro technology. Not sure what tech was in the 7800 over the 5200, but the games do look better than the earlier machine?
You showed pictures of it but didn't explain it. What does the Pong "Battery Eliminator" do? I'm guessing it's maybe a mains connector for something that usually runs on battery in the standard boxed system?
I want an Atari Video Music core for my MiSTer !!
No that would be cool!
Sure there is makings of a RMC Tetris style game there somewhere...which console fits inside which?
Kudos for the Tenacious D reference. This is not the greatest comment in the world, no this is just a tribute. 😁
i absolutely want to get an Atari ST (im in the United States though so NTSC systems are rather hard to come by) even a little more so than an Amiga for my collection (mainly for its MSDOS compatible Floppy disk drive for easier file transfers)
Is this place open now? How many visitors have you had?
Not yet, we had the soft launch day which went well and then more Covid restrictions because of Omicron, we’re just about to release the dates and ticket system for public days
I remember pong and lots of variations of it on an orange console that came with 2 separate control knobs and I think a shooting game that didn't seem to work properly. Anyone know what I'm on about???
Console bigger than a 5200? The Magnavox Odyssey 2 should meet the requirements.
Odyssey 2 is 13 x 13.25 x 4.25 (inches). 5200 is 15 x 13 x 4.25. So, it's close, but not bigger.