A Point About Trammel Points: Sheet Metal Hack
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
- Trammel points have their place in the shop. I'm not going to actually use them for what is normally their intended purpose, but I WILL give a description of a job they can be used for in a pinch. The whole point of the video is to show how to make multiple marks on multiple pieces of duct halves without using a folding rule, circumference rule or tape measure. It's all for speed and efficiency of movement in the process of laying out multiple pieces of duct halves.
For their intended purpose, trammel points are unbeatable. That function is laying out radius fittings of any size, but especially they shine in the large radius department. You know the ones....the ones that the standard dividers won't stretch out far enough to create the arc. Another layout they are perfect for is for the fabrication of round chimney caps.
Today, two home made trammels are shown then a much shorter version is shown for a different intended purpose and that is repetitive motions of a specific measurement while laying out multiple sections of duct of the same dimension.
Enjoy....
Tractorman you taught me to use an inside read rule when i worked for you years ago. I still do it today and the youngsters look at me like i am crazy
Hey man !! A ghost from the past. Last time I talked to you was in Lowe's about 4 years, 2 months, 9 hours and 13 minutes ago....LOL Just kidding. Not about the Lowe's part though. I understand you have breakfast with my Much Older Brother up there at the AWFUL House on occasion !! Is he in there giving the waitresses trouble ?? Asking for a friend..... LOL
Two for one hacks in this video. Great way to sharpen a point. I do have the Malco tramel collecting dust in my toolbox ever since the company I work for have a plasma table purchased 20 years ago. Passed on to me when my dad retired. Thxs for the vids!
Man, there ain't a day in the shop that the belt sander isn't used for something or other David. I use it to thin down a new to me ax, reshape flat screwdrivers, remove mill scale from small metal parts for welding projects....the list goes on and on. I even trim the ends of hammer and ax handles after installing new ones. I don't use the trammel points hardly at all anymore either....but its not because of my cnc plasma table. (I don't have one) LOL
Another learning adventure. Never knew about the folding rule, I got my dads downstairs. I gotta find it and see now. He was a carpenter.
Never know Bob without taking a looksee !! LOL. I bet its an outside read.....
My friend, most of the times it is the small hand tools used in a big project that ensure the big tools makes big jobs successful, in this case the scribes and tapes are overseen sometimes by looking at the bigger picture but when a video like this one came along and focus on the accurate an importance of the small support tools, excellent video and I will definitely one day like to see your scribes, thanks for sharing
Yes Jan, kinda like the unimportant chess pieces....can't play the game successfully without the pawns. LOL Seriously though you hit the nail perfectly on the head with that comment my friend.
Very interesting Wendell, but then again , they always are. Great job, thank you,
Thanks Mike. It was just a quick little one to tie into the scribe video. For guys that do a lot of repetitive lay out of straight duct, the little wooden thingamabob with pop rivits is really quick !!
Another 44 Adventure for this first night of March! How Nice! I’d love seeing The 44 Scribe Adventure so get to it for your 44 fans, eh? Somewhere in my shop on some shelf or corner I have an old Starrett catalog and so many tools with amazing prices, I mean very cheap for high quality by today’s standards. Back when American made tools were praised worldwide. I was able to talk with some of the old tool makers back when I was a young dude, pattern makers and tool and dye guys retired. In the 70s I knew an old fella name Koser who worked for Hubley Toys. At his sale was a full sized bull dog in cast iron that had been one of a pair special ordered by a store in NYC. A bidder asked the auctioneer how he knew it was truly a Hubley made cast iron piece, as they often just had numbers on the bottom of toys and other cast iron pieces. Well Mr. Koser stood up and said, I know for sure because I made them at Hubley! That bidder turned red and sat down. Hubley was here in Lancaster Pa. many years. Another customer I’d restored many of their antiques for was a Hubley family member and had this wonderful collection of toy molds in show cases, some of which were brass. Oh yes, Mr Koser also said that he personally destroyed the bull dog molds he’d made after the two were cast for the business, which they displayed on either side of their entrance. Being solid cast iron and about 20” tall if I recall, they were quite heavy, not good for a charm bracelet I recon. Thanks for this 44Vid my Friend Wendell and for remembering old Mr. Koser who was a master craftsman and pattern maker. This here is DaveyJO wishing 44Ranch many blessings and CupsOJO, which I’ll be tippin inna morning!
Such a neat story about old Mr Koser my friend. I still have a few Hubley toys from when I was a kid many years ago !! Mostly cast aluminum tractors as a matter of fact. Glad to have shook a memory or two loose from the cobwebs DaveyJO !! Those bull dogs would be neat to have in the front yard wouldn't they... I too will be sippin a bitta JO right along with ya buddy !!
@@tractorman4461 Morning tips fer ser!
I would love to see your video on scribes you've got! As a guy who's only been doing this for a year, a lot of the stuff you may not think is very interesting or notable definitely is to me. You've got a lot of great wisdom and insight
Well Brandon, that is a nice group of words you put together and I thank you for that. Its nice to see some of the younger generation like yourself showing enthusiasm for such a rewarding field. I'm primarily a service tech and have no formal training in sheet metal fabrication except for one semester in Tech School. They didn't even have a Pittsburgh machine or an 8' brake and ductwork was never in discussion.
Very interesting buddy great job explaining the tools and how to use them take care have a great night
Hopefully your deep snow is just about gone up there Tom. Our little bit is gone now and it was 76*F (24*C) today !! Take care and enjoy the evening my friend.
Very cool video. I always get great ideas from videos like this. I don't remember why but, when I worked with the Boilermakers in the shop, most of them used outside rules. When I worked with the tin-knockers it was inside rules. My go to rule is an inside rule and it's getting so worn on the outside that you can't read any numbers. Carried that one a lot of years in my back pocket. 👍👍👍
I've went through quite a few of them myself. Sometimes the brass joints get loosened and there goes the accuracy.....BOOM...they are gone, death warrant signed, sealed and delivered to the trash can !! LOL. I have a few missing most of the numbers on the backside too. (-:
Years ago, I carried a Lufkin "Plumbers Folding Rule" for calculating the length for 45° offsets. Measure the offset between the two pipes (center to center) that needs to be connected with 45's with the regular side of the rule (black numbers), place your thumb on the number and turn the rule over. This is the length required for using 45's (red numbers). Of course, you had to deduct for the fitting allowance. Unfortunately, they only made them with the regular (black numbers) on the outside. You could of course just multiply the offset by 1.414 to get the proper number but that was before pocket calculators.
You beat me to it !! As I read your first two lines I was already planning to toss in the 'offset x 1.41' trick. LOL Retired fitter here. Mostly refrigeration piping, gas piping and boiler piping though. As a service fitter though, most of the time I was troubleshooting and doing hvac system and DDC controls start-ups. Good comment buddy.
Another great video. Being an ex aircraft mechanic I was used to modifying and making my own tools, so I am always glad to watch some one making their own tools. I have used the old drill and belt sander trick for all kinds of points on all kinds of tools.
Of course I want to see your scribe video.
I use that trick to make a quick pin punch for this or that. Many other things too Rick. Lot's of shop tricks up our collective sleeves I bet. The cool thing about a belt sander is it has a tendency to not heat up the metal too quickly...and that's good !!
Huh! I never knew there was a difference in folding rules.
I would like to see the scribe video. I am always amazed at how little I know about things. Just a view from the other side can make all the difference.
I like using marking gauges for repetitive marks. The first one I got was pretty sad so I didn't use it much. As usual once I bought one 10 more showed up. A few of them are really nice. I can set the beam to match the dimension on a steel rule and Bob's my brother. 😁😎
The one I don't have yet is a panel marking gauge. It has a much longer beam and a wide fence to keep the line parallel to the edge. Not something I do a lot.
I do have a fence. I just need to make a beam for it. Rosewood sticks a couple feet long are getting hard to find.
Now I find that difficult to believe that I actually showed YOU something you didn't know about an old tool !! LOL. You'd maybe like my 48'' circumference rule I bet. In line with each of the 1/8'' increment markings there is straight across the steel rule from those markings is the circumference of a circle with that diameter. Now that I think about it, I have to check and see if its on the 1/4 or 1/8 marks. But you get the drift.
This was a great video, as always. Videos like this provide necessary nuance to shop work that you really can’t get from anywhere except experience, or from other guys sharing.
I would love to see your video on the scribes, as I have invested in various types for my shop and am curious about your uses for them.👍
Most of my uses for scribes revolve around sheet metal or welding projects. There are a lot of uses servicing both residential and commercial heating and a/c systems as well. I will now have to find the old video in the SD archives or just make another one....which may be easier in the long run. Thanks Christopher for the interest.
I like the idea of being able to make a few tools you use every day....You lose it and no problem....You just make another one...you have a good selection of them trammel points....well done oh...and bring on the scribes...could be interesting and the bulb may just come on and what if I need one of those....I could make it.....CHEERS
Hahahahaha....ok Gator, will do just because you requested so politely. If I can just now find the unedited video to edit. LOL. We have made a lot of small useful items over the years for various purposes.
Wendell,I have a trammel point like your sliding key stock unit made by Malco. I think I bought it at an auction in a bucket of tools for $5. AL B.
Auctions are a great way to pick up stuff cheap. However, last summer I was sleeping on the job and let a stack of (50) 24x 96 x 26 gauge sheet metal slip by for $4 a sheet !! That was almost like stealing it. I cleaned up on other stuff though. Like a box of 50 capacitors for $2. All new stock. New 1/2 and 3/4 belt drive and direct drive motors in the box for $4 each. I love auctions !! Not every one goes like that though. Ya gotta be careful.
Looked at it again....all good....CHEERS
Hahahahaha....like a moth to a flame, right Gator ?? LOL
would love to see an essential tinners tool kit video!
You know Wayne I started that one time just to round out the tail end of a shop day and quickly realized the discussion was gonna be waaaay too long. I carry a Kennedy large box with the trays that fold out two to a side. So it gets quite heavy. I used to literally dump it upside down once a year right in the middle of the workbench and clean it out. But I may get around to do it for you one of these days. I don't need everything in there any more, and the duplicates have been long removed for the most part. Thanks buddy for watching.
@@tractorman4461 ScoutCrafter has mishmosh Mondays where he puts together short topics into a magazine format.
Your toolbox would be a good base to work from.
Drawer by drawer or topic by topic with just one as a tailgunner on a video ending up making a series of videos.
@@OldSneelock Hmmm...sounds pretty neat. I seem to lack most of the creativity needed to plan much of anything. LOL. My workload change from morning to afternoon many days. I am getting it more under control to a certain extent now that I don't do a whole LOT of work for others.
@@tractorman4461 When I was working it was even more helpful.
I often worked 12 hour days and did a 3 hour round trip commute every work day. My project time was limited to say the least.
Putting out one video a month was about the best I could do. The work was done in 10 minute to half hour increments.
I treated the videos like the work instructions I was creating. That's where the file folder deal came from.
I needed to be able to edit work instructions so the photos and text had to be quickly retrievable.
I just started putting the TH-cam videos into a folder on my computer at home the same way.
On the weekend I could string them together and post them.
If I was in the shop building all day it would be harder to do the downloads so I set up the laptop to just put the chip in and download the data.
It ain't easy being us. Is it.
@@OldSneelock Your commute sounds almost like mine for many years. But doing HVAC service, I'd start at a different location every day....unless I was on a construction project. Most times my trip would be and hour to and hour and ten minutes. Bad days would be longer. The good thing was i had a company truck, so all the cost was borne by the company. I just had to have it serviced on my own time. But that's a small price to pay for a free rolling toolbox !! And yes, the project time at home WAS a premium...but then I had the energy to work much longer and much later after dark than now. Hahahaha...the last point....no, it ain't easy at all is it !! LOL
great learning video thanks
I am glad to see you enjoyed it. Just some old home made tools to make layout a bit easier.
Yeah my first stick ruler I bought was accidentally a outside read one. I didn't know until I went to use it. What a bummer.
I tried one once and it's the yellow one I was holding. It is at least 35 or more years old and good as new. I don't even like it for laying out wood projects !! LOL I just can't part with it because I bought it NEW !!
👍👍😎👍👍 Thanks for the tips
Heck yeah Joel… No problem. Enjoy the videos…..!!
Hey! I would like to see that scribe video!
Hey Matt....Good morning my friend. I'll dig it out of the archives. Might take a bit of an effort because I've still not got a good way to record what's on them. LOL I have essentially a library where a disgruntled librarian dumped over all the book shelves. Yessir, can't find Waldo !!
@@tractorman4461 😂👌
@@tractorman4461 As a former engineer I tend to follow the old ways I was taught.
Just like a file cabinet with hanging folders and manila folders jammed inside from 40 years ago I have major folders and subfolders on my hard drive. Each project starts with a major folder. Millers Falls 120B for example. Then in that folder is a sub folder with teardown, cleanup, paint, assembly etc. folder headings, I have blank project folder with those subfolders in it ready to go. All I do is copy the blank folder and name the copy. As I take video I dump them into the laptop and sometimes I don't get back to them for a year or more. They are still there and can be found with a keyword search in the file manager.
I use a PC clone android with MS operation system. Don't know if it is similar on a MAC.
Saves me a lot of time.
Lydia used her secretarial filing knowledge to set up my file cabinets at UTC in 1981. I was complemented as being the most organized Maintenance Manager they ever had.
Since the guy before me used the one file drawer in his desk to hide his bottle and snacks it wasn't a high bar to get over.
The entire library of Operating and Maintenance Manuals for a 106,000 sq. ft. shop with three extrusion presses, two remelt furnaces, and anodize shop and a fabrication shop was filed by the pile in one end of the office. I spent my spare time, what little there was, reading the manuals on the equipment.
They were amazed at how much I knew about extrusion presses without ever having worked on one before.
I never let my boss know. I did have all the people working for me go through the manuals too. It saved a lot of OH SH*T phone calls at 3:00.am.
@@OldSneelock That's an impressive set up you described at UTC. I could never get it together that good. Paperwork is my enemy!! Or so it seems anyway. And I'm sure the Mac has similar filing capabilities, but that, my friend, is beyond my pay grade to figure out !! You were fortunate to have been a 'teachable' student to your learn your wife's lessons easily. I however, seem to have a mental block that requires endless repetition to hammer home the slightest change. Heck I still can't even place text on the screen to correct a mis-spoken word in a video. LOL No joke !!
Feels like um back in skool !! lol
Wellllll...all I can say is, I DO like apples.... jus' sayin'...LOL
Yes sir more basic shop tools please, maybe something will motivate more people to get busy and invent something like a better mouse trap, just maybe. Lol
Hahahaha....hey Troy, can you spell 'ball bearing mouse trap' in just six letters ?? T-O-M-C-A-T.
@@tractorman4461 Oh that is rich. Bet that comes out every once in a while from here on. 😁😎
@@OldSneelock Hahahahaha...got ya on that one huh. (-:
I'd watch that video! Please go ahead & edit it sir.
You know Marty, it never fails to surprise me how much interest there seems to be in just about anything associated with the trades and their tools. I never mind showing them either. Now all I gotta do is FIND the video in the SD card file. LOL Might be easier to make a new video.... Thanks again buddy for showing an interest !!
i would like to see ant SCRIBE VIDEO'S that you have. thank you
Well its not a super-duper video, but I DO have a variety of ways to scratc a line on a piece of metal Ed. Thanks for showing interest in a slowly disappearing field.