This whole video was really just a long way of saying, if you could just cut out the $16 avocado toast you'd be retiring from the workforce in your early 20's. But, since you've decided that $16 avocado toast is non-negotiable, you might as well spend a couple bucks a month on a subscription to Nebula, the creator-owned streaming service where you can find all my videos ad-free, promotion-free, AND EARLY. It's a great way to support what I do, too! Use my link here to get the best deal, and check the description box for more options. go.nebula.tv/citynerd
Hey Ray! Yeah I also don't love the way retirement is framed as the goal of wealth accumulation, so I'm a bigger fan of the FINE (Financial Independence, New Endeavor) movement/framing
An aspect of FIRE rarely talked about is maintaining health to then enjoy that financial freedom. Biking and walking instead of relying on a car are incredibly beneficial for long term health, whereas studies increasingly find that sedentary behavior (e.g. driving) is one of the worst things you can do to your body
And also the mentality/ability to figure things out, and deal with setbacks. Through-hiking and riding my bike everywhere taught me a lot about life that I find hard to explain to those who have never done it.
@@deadhead3100 If you drive to get around for everything, your chance of becoming an unhealthy or just less healthy person is far higher than your chance of getting hit when walking or biking. And the health benefits from doing those things also outweigh the risks from breathing in car exhaust.
I once again am bringing up the urbanist visionary Ben Folds and his foundational text, "Rockin' The Suburbs" as heard in the award winning film, Over the Hedge: "We drive our cars every day to and from work both ways so we make just enough to pay to drive our cars to work each day; hey, hey"
I live in Queens, a very walkable part of NYC. Not too long ago, I was at a playdate with my daughter, and her friend's dad suggested we go out for lunch. We decided on a Tibetan restaurant very close to us. In fact, the restaurant is exactly a ten-minute walk from their house. This man looked me in the face and suggested we take his car there. When you mention that car owners find excuses to use their car, you weren't kidding.
I've crashed at a friend's place out of town, and because it was drizzling a little bit, they suggested driving across the street to the convenience store rather than just wearing a hood or getting an umbrella.
This video is the reason why im choosing to move to a high density city where cars aren’t needed. im 22, have a job in software lined up, and want to FIRE by the time im 40. My parents cannot comprehend that I don’t plan on buying a car, but I will be saving thousands that will directly be going into Roth/401k. Great video as always :)
absolutely insane that the prospect of not dropping a 25k+ expense on a motor vehicle and prioritizing your future wellbeing instead, is seen as odd. it's simply beyond me
It's amazing going car free. Did the same for my first 7 years in Seattle and only got a car in 2021 because I was tired of renting during the pandemic but wanted to do more outdoorsy stuff It was one of the few times in history where a new car (at 0% APR because no one was buying st the time) actually was worth more a few months after buying it (chip shortage). Ironically I could only "afford" it at that point because we were living the DINK life with good careers and we could actually afford 1.2k/month in insurance+loan+parking. That said I still drive it so infrequently I killed the battery and had to buy a battery tender An ebike is where the sweet spot is. You can do your weekly grocery run and it keeps up with vehicle traffic on city streets + let's you actually go up hills in sf or Seattle
Instead of focusing on owning a car, why don't you take a look at your overall spending ? Library book instead of buying a book. More walking or cycling. No gym membership. Clothes, concerts, expensive coffee. HBO, Netflix, NBA tickets. Cutting back could save $20, 000 over a 10-year period . Then you can spend without paying credit card interest.
At that age, city life has a lot of advantages. Years from now you might want something different. The other option is WFH in cheaper (probably rural) housing. Vanlife is another option. All 3 can be done with similar total budgets.
“The government doesn’t need to threaten me with incarceration within a 15 minute city, I’ll gladly do it myself” was the most underrated line in this whole video lol. I’m car free since 2013, and have been urban city living since then up until this year. I lost my job and had to move in with family about an hour away in the suburbs. There are no sidewalks. Everything is a 15-20 min drive away. My family is incredibly sedentary. I’m more depressed and unhealthy than I’ve ever been and am praying for the day I can find remote employment get back to the city again.
The wife and I discovered FIRE about 11 years ago and set in place a plan to retire at 50. Well, we hit our number 3 years early and we both quit our jobs. The plan is to move around the world while we are still in good health (Costa Rica now, Thailand next). FIRE really changed our lives for the better. A big part of our FIRE plan was downsizing our suburban house for a semi-urban condo and not upgrading our cars every 2-3 years. We still drove a lot but with two paid of cars it was very cheap. Great video, CityNerd!
My view of this is a bit different. I watched my parents reach an age where they could no longer drive. They lived in a car-dependent suburb, and the loss of mobility was devastating, especially for my father. I've been telling my wife our next move needs to be with this in mind. We need to be in a place where we can reach grocery stores, restaurants, a YMCA, pharmacies, doctors, and other services without having a car.
I figured out hedonic adaptation when I managed to purchase my first house in my 20's. I then started to fantasize not simply about owning a home, but owning a larger, nicer one in a nicer neighbourhood. And then it hit me that there was no end to this cycle: there would always be a larger, nicer home in a nicer area just out of reach. So obviously that wasn't any sort of path to happiness and I should stop pursuing it. Have owned two cars, both bought used with cash. Did the numbers and saw how car loans and new car depreciation were for suckers. Also lived car-free for a decade (what persuaded me to get another one was my interest in hiking and the outdoors). Have mostly lived in what are regarded as expensive cities yet not focusing on acquiring material things has given me the freedom to work a lot less than most do. Having a life that revolves around owning cars and driving them everyplace has never appealed to me.
@CityNerd you're right, yardwork sucks, but gardening doesn't so much, and helps out with one of the issues a lot of folks in lower income areas in cities have: fresh fruits and veggies. I think a lot of people also get a sense of connection to the land through gardening, and it makes trekking out to "nature" (I believe you talked about some of those difficulties in a recent video) less necessary. That might be a good top ten list sometime, best cities for urban gardeners. And no, not lawns. Green lawns are an abomination everywhere that doesn't have the humidity of Ohio.
We just did a similar evaluation and sold our house in the suburbs and moved to a high rise apartment. I have so much more free time not having to maintain a yard or drive everywhere.
When I sold my first house and went back to renting an apartment, that was the thing that hit me my first or second weekend. I immediately started thinking of what yard work I had to do that weekend, and how much time I had free to do other things, and "Wait! No yard! No yard work at all! It's all free time this weekend! All of it!"
For me doing outdoorsy stuff is very necessary to my happiness, and that’s super hard without a car. For how often I take trips that are impossible without a car (eg going hiking in the mountains), and due to my current job being inaccessible by transit, my household needs 1 car. But we are always making choices to avoid a second car because the marginal expense would be so high.
I'm in that boat too. And though I do most of what I can to keep that vehicle cost down (paid $5000 cash for older used car, drive very little), I acknowledge that I am less wealthy as a result, even if I'm in a different stratosphere than most car owners. Most people have a vice in their personal finances somewhere, the key is just to not have too many or have them be too extreme.
Me too! I'm in the mountains or desert every weekend, and love road tripping to national parks. I couldn't do this stuff without a car. In saying that, I bought a 7k car with cash and live in a small apartment in a walkable area, so that all helps cost-wise. I have done many years without cars when I've lived places in the central city with no parking, and it was indeed freeing, but I also do live to get out of the city and go hiking and camping, and would miss that greatly. Car-lite definitely works best for me - I don't need a fancy car and only use it when I need it. I still walk and take the bus or trolley a lot.
Furthermore I can sleep in my car before/after my outdoor trips which would cost me one or two nights in paid accomodation even if the outdoor location was accessible by public transport...otoh as long as said car is cheaper than the bicycle in the trunk you're doing it right ;)
A miracle has happened. My son the car addict had his car totaled and he has received a settlement. He now does not see any reason to buy a new car! Excellent!
I appreciate you making this video. Mr. Money Mustache was the one who got me to buy a bike and it changed my whole perspective on life. That was 8 years ago. I significantly reduced using my car and then sold it 2 years ago. I can't even begin to say freeing not owning a car is. No more payments, no more insurance. When I need a car I rent or ask someone for a ride. I actually hit my fire number sooner than I expected, but now I'm planning on moving out of a cheap red state because of the crazy hateful politics so my expenses are about to dramatically increase. But it is worth it. Also I agree with the not retiring part of this movement. I just want the freedom. Freedom to work on what ever I want. I get to be grad student working on exciting open source projects which I wouldn't if I was in the "proper" work force.
I’ve lived without a car in London and didn’t ever need one. In Boston I did miss having a car with its terrible public transport. Also, if you have small children, having a car and a backyard are nice to have
When I lived in Seattle, I parked my car for 2 years without paying insurance to bike and use busses as my modes of transit. If I needed a car for a large grocery haul or to go to a far suburb, I would just get a Zipcar. Saved so much money that way!
I live out bush in Western Australia and I appreciate the caveat that this specific lifestyle isn't feasible for all. We actually live in a very walkable bush town with everything we need on our doorstep. Living a (nearly) waste free life and making our home more sustainable is enough happiness for us, despite the absolutely awful few years of uncertainty we've experienced. Love your channel! 💚
I live car-free in Baltimore; it's great. There's plenty to do here as well as on the Northeast Corridor. The yard is small enough that I enjoy working on it; any larger and it would bother me. Had never planned on owning but the rent vs. own economics worked out when I moved here. It's nice that the job can go away and I don't immediately have to worry about replacing the income since the expenses are way down with not being tethered to a car payment.
Appreciate your thoughts sir. Thank you. (Aside: My wife and I took a recent train adventure during discount-weekend-pricing and it was such a welcome difference from riding in our regular wheeled-metal-coffin that we can't wait for the next "cheap" adventure. Keep inspiring us to do better CityNerd.)
I've been car-free my entire life, as I simply detest driving; I do not even have a license. I've lived only in very large cities, and cannot imagine living otherwise. That said, what I think Mr Nerd discounts somewhat about home ownership is its intersection with the desire to design and personalize your living and entertaining quarters far beyond what is possible in a rental property through structural alterations. Similarly, with respect to having yard (or just outdoor space of any variety), the value of gardening and yardwork as a genuinely relaxing and meditative pursuit in its own right should get a little more credit. But this is a matter of personal preference, and I realize many people see yard maintenance as a burden. Renting in a metropolis and owning something more rural allows for both options to be pursued
Agreed. Planting veggies in four good-sized raised beds -and weeding them regularly, is very relaxing. Plus, the taste of the tomatoes, carrots, sweet onions, etc. is an added healthy bonus.
Yeah, I know, there’s sickos out there that enjoy yard work. There’s probably also sickos out there that enjoy cleaning toilets. I don’t enjoy either. But whatever floats your boat.
I don’t understand your point about the opportunity cost of owning a house. You said the S&P 500 has outperformed housing price increases. Sure. But it’s not like the absence of a mortgage opens all that money up for investing. Figure out the true cost of ownership (mortgage, HOA, maintenance, closing costs, etc.) and compare that to rent. Since your mortgage is fixed (insurance, maintenance, etc. can go up) and rent has done nothing but skyrocket in my town over the past few years, I’ve gotten to a point where I’d be spending more money monthly if I were still renting.
@@bionj1980 well yeah, all real estate does, but that doesn’t change the fact the analysis here implied that any money spent on home ownership is money that could have been thrown into other investments, which is wrong. You always have to consider how much you’d spend on renting and consider the deltas. The actual numbers always vary, but the analysis presented here is just wrong.
These situations always depend on the individual's options. Someone who didn't buy a home 10, 20, 30 years ago is not getting the same lower mortgage as the person who has owned their home for 10 years.
There's an opportunity cost to your down payment, and if your down payment is small, you're paying PMI. There are a lot of cases where that opportunity cost is high.
Definitely a big draw of the "undervalued cities" segments is planning out where I could move for a coasting early retirement. I really would like to be able to take the time to work on creative projects with the expectation that it's okay if I fail, because my costs are low enough to quickly recover/take a part time job for a bit if needed.
The spending is outrageous here on Long Island. And everyone wants their house to be high in price then wonder why taxes get higher. Housing is a terrible investment!
Between maintenance, property taxes, and the rising cost of insurance, people really need to take a hard look at whether owning a house is right for them.
I walk or take public transportion most everywhere I go. I moved back to San Francisco during Covid. It is cheaper for me to live in this expensive city rather than commute with cheaper rent elsewhere. A vehicle is the difference maker
“Who wants to retire anyway?” You saved the best line for last. I’m in my 60s and technically retired, but I do volunteer work that I love. My spouse loves his paid job, and is planning on tapering rather than retiring.
I don't personally live this way for a variety of reasons, but you can unquestionably live a less expensive life with a small household in a walkable urban area, especially if you are car free or "car light" (single older well maintained vehicle, just one). This is true even in places like San Francisco, I have family members who live there exactly like this, with a single older well maintained car used for occasional longer trips, not daily commute. You can live especially easily this way in some of the less pricey cities like Philly, I have a car free nephew grad student there living very comfortably on a meager grad student stipend. Its tougher to live this way with school age kids, because as a general rule most urban school districts aren't excellent and private schools are very pricey. And for some very high income people state and local taxes in some states can be a problem. Of course those people aren't probably looking for a low expense way to live. But for people not in that circumstance, it is a great way to live.
I've never owned a car, much less worried about the depreciation and the insurance and all that extra stuff. All that stuff is foreign; living in New York City, the only transportation costs I think are about whether I should be getting the weekly MetroCard unlimited right away or just doing OMNY pay-per-ride until it becomes an unlimited, and the occasional gas when going on a road trip with friends. It all seems like a bunch of extra expenses, with not much difference in use of time, and any advantage of driving being very marginal.
Im 18 and would like to now own a car as well as I have in the past and I dislike it and I enjoy biking and public transport instead. I noticed you say you live in NYC, although I’d love to live in nyc I’m afraid at my age and how much I make I wouldn’t be able to do that, any other city’s you’d recommend for not owning a car?
In my experience, cities are too expensive even with a car free lifestyle. Medium density or even rural areas can be more affordable, but only if you can minimize the commute (carpool?) and other transportation expenses.
Disagree. I have family members with below median local incomes doing this right now in Denver, SF, and Philly. Most have one older car, one has no car. It's not high living, but it is definitely possible.
I have been car free since 2019 and it has made my life so much easier. I see cars as archaic now as the future I long for is frequent and useful public transit. In my Montreal suburb it is only half frequent and partially useful but I can easily make do without car ownership.
I never owned a car at all during the 20 years I lived in Seattle and Ann Arbor, MI. It wasn't always easy, but it was definitely much cheaper than driving. I live in Albuquerque now (same as you) but, unlike you, I just couldn't swing the car-free living anymore. I perhaps made a bit of a financial mistake in buying here as, even though I locked in a much-less-than-Seattle-rent-prices mortgage, I now have car expenses... but I'm still living well within my means and both purchases have yielded dividends in mental health. I don't have a wife or kids, so... caring for and maintaining a house and car kind of fill a void, in a weird way. Besides which, without a car I felt *very* isolated here and it was taking a huge toll. And taking trips I wouldn't otherwise take is sort of a goal when you're new somewhere! I wrote this for two reasons: 1) despite everything I just said, I appreciate the reminder to really do the hard math - both financial and emotional - when the used car I bought reaches the end of its life and 2) If you watched the video and the idea of living car free is overwhelming because you're not ready to do that hard math or, if in your circumstance, the math is *really* hard - it's ok. Doing the best you can with what you have now is ok.
My wife and I paired back from two cars to one about 1.5 years ago. She works about 8 miles away two days a week without viable public transportation, so we still need the one car. I mainly bike to work at this point but drive a couple days per week if I have multiple meetings around town that I can't get to by bike or the weather's terrible. No car payment at least and it's a 9-year-old car so depreciation is modest at this point. Still dreaming of that car-free living; someday!
Just a note on "expensive vacations" juxtaposed next to the cruise ship, you can get some pretty great deals on cruises. It's full room, board, meals, entertainment and travel bundled into one for 3-7+ days. Minus cost of getting to the port of course and any extras you add on. Just choose your time of season wisely and realize that excursions usually cost extra yes.
@@randalmiller1080 There's some of that, but eh. If i take a 20hr plan ride to Japan I'm stuck next to strangers in tight places and visit the biggest city in the world anyway. There's always trade offs.
Love this video. It’s certainly more challenging with kids, in the car-brained Midwest, but the wife and I are weaning ourselves off of cars. Home ownership is another matter, we’ve already made a good chunk from buying a “worst house in a good neighborhood” and doing a bunch of renovations, and it’s easier to not have to search for rentals if you have dogs. But every time I see a massive, $70k truck, I see an idiot who is wasting their money.
I need a video that targets the suburban/exurban typical person who somehow is convinced they must live out in the countryside or a forest and cannot be anywhere near a city. Is there any type of medium/small-sized city that somehow almost satisfy both? (I don't need this, I love cities... just hate how this comes up all the time it feels like and I have no response to it)
the buses in my city are free, so ive been trying to take them more whenever i can! even if it adds 20 minutes or so to my commute, its a fair trade off to the anxiety that i get while driving and the little bit of gas im saving lol
Living in LA I don't think I'll ever be able to live car free, both because "LA" can mean family still lives out in the OC or IE and it doesn't look like that's going to be easy to get to any time soon, and because of family health issues, but having only one car and an e-bike has saved us a ton of money. I agree about the "retire early" part not being a huge deal, I think it's better to have a job that pays well enough that you don't hate and gives you enough freedom to pursue your own goals is a better deal than working at a high stress, high paying job that you hate and gives you less free time. I try to proselytize family about one car ownership where possible but it doesn't look like it's had much impact, but hopefully I can at least teach my kid that riding your bike and taking the bus isn't just for poor people. I've never heard of this "FIRE" ideology but I guess I've always agreed with it anyway. I wouldn't say I'm cheap but I'm definitely frugal and don't find ways to spend money for the hell of it. Modern capitalism has perverted the idea of spending money as a requirement to live and keep up with society instead of something that gives you the freedom to do what you want. If you don't spend all your money on a new car, new phone, new clothes, etc. every chance you get when the old one works fine, you free up money for other things. But the bean counters act like all this money will sit there and people will do nothing all day hoarding money, probably because they're projecting what they do with their money.
Simplification of choices to increase happiness is an interesting concept. Yes, going car-free is one approach. I find that small town living (down to about 10,000 population) is another. It works especially well if it’s a tourist destination, as you’ll get more services per person in the off-season. You still get good coffee shops, pubs, and restaurants, but can focus on favorites and make local friends there. You won’t get swanky night clubs, but those are just more keep-up-with-the-Joneses places anyway. You can get the apartment or the yard, and still be able to bike or walk for groceries, dining, dentist, and doctor. I’ve long known that I like small towns. Now I know that their fewer choices are a benefit, rather than a downside.
I rent. Two 10 to 14 vacations, and another 10 days of single day trips costs me about 5 to 6 thousand a year. And every time I drive I drive a new car.
It was about 15 years ago in my 20s that my car broke down and I just wasn't making the money necessary to pay to fix it. Up to this point I had done everything in my power to keep my car running because it was you know... all I had in my sprawly south Florida region to get around. You NEED a car right? Right? Thankfully I was already doing freelance stuff online quite a bit, so I leaned into that more (still didn't make a lot of money, but it meant I didn't have to commute 30 mins to work). And I checked out the map and found... actually... everything I needed was actually technically in walking distance. Don't get me wrong, some people would scoff at the distances... heck at the time I did! But I had to walk and when you need groceries and the sort, walking was the only option (the delivery services of today didn't exist, some grocery stores offered it, but it was so niche at the time I wouldn't have known to attempt it). And honestly... I liked it! Sure weather impacted it, but you know, I just had to schedule my shopping around the weather. I even got myself one of those "granny baskets" on wheels to carry the groceries home when I did a big purchase. But really I got into a habit of buying what I needed and just shopping more frequently. My vegetable intake went up actually because I was buying and eating them within 2 days anyways with the frequency of my shopping. I did end up getting a car again when I reentered an office job. But I bought a little Toyota Yaris for 11K at the time brand new (I swear... they really need to bring the Yaris back). I got married and my wife found it weird how little I drove. I drove to work, that was it. Then we moved across the country (we had enough of Florida). So we're now in the northeast and I gave my Yaris to my brother back in Florida, and we got my wife a Subaru. We're now a 1 car house. My wife needs it to get to the office downtown. But I'm at home out here in the woods and I get by walking. There's a little 7-eleven with a grinder shop next door a little less than a mile from my house. There's a small new england town center a little further than that. And a grocery store a brisk bike ride from there (3-4 miles?). Honestly... it's not the distance, it's the HILL I live on that makes the bike ride to the grocery rough. But still... it's NOT bad. My wife was VERY skeptical of it. She did not believe me when I told her I would make it work when we had just 1 car. She assumed within weeks I'd be chomping at the bit to buy a 2nd car. But here we are 5 years later still a 1 car house in the woods and honestly I prefer it. This is how I get my exorcise! My brother actually moved up here to too (he's now my neighbor) and I'll be walking to the store and he'll drive by me going to the same store. Then in the store he'll go on about how he needs to hit the gym because of his gut. "I told you I was going to the store, you could have walked with me?" He'll just laugh, buy his monster energy drink, and get back in his car and drive home. Thing is... if you told 20 year old me that 40 year old me wouldn't have his own car and would walk/bicycle everywhere. I'd laugh in your face. Me? I literally grew up in a truck driver family that hauled cars! Cars were my life! Don't get me wrong a lot changed before I hit 21 (a lot of my family died and the truck driving went with it). But like I had that mentality that cars were a given. But then I got in a financial situation that forced my hand and I quickly learned... I don't need a car. I mean sure, I need a vehicle on occasion. I need to do a run to the lumber store or go to a show like I did last night. But I can rent a truck or a taxi/uber in those rare occasions and pay FAR LESS than maintaining a car/insurance/fuel. It's SO expensive. It's hundreds of dollars a month. But like... I used to smoke too. 3 packs a day! And you could tell me how much I blew on butts and I wouldn't bat an eye. It's not "that" much... so what... then I quit (for other reasons... 15 year old me said if I ever made it to 25 I'd quit... so when I woke up 28 one day I was like 'welp, I made it' and quit). After I quit... yeah, that money became obvious! Cars are different than smoking since their utility is a thing where as butts have no real utility outside of giving you cancer. But the financial point still stands. While you smoke, and while you drive everywhere, you can't imagine a world where you didn't smoke/drive. So telling me I'd save 500+ dollars a month (if not more) cutting just one of them out would have made me laugh. So I get it that it makes others laugh. But it's true guys. Even in an unwalkable suburban south Florida, or rural New England... you can actually walk! Anyways, I'm off to grab a grinder and a mtn dizzle.
Honestly Mr Money Mustache turned me off to bike commuting when I first read his article about it. I remember him being pretty dismissive of the concerns of people who live outside bike-friendly Colorado when pressed. Years later, I'm back to biking, after moving to a non-sprawling suburb that's close to my hometown. I'm working my way up to running more and more errands on a bike, as well as biking in all weather (I'm in the Midwest). It's much more approachable for me to consider going "car-lite" instead of "car-free". Btw I personally hate yard work too but my partner actually loves owning a house that he can work on and personalize, so it's not always up to the individual lol
Okay, important question that is unrelated to your video. CityNerd, you're going to want to skim past this, but don't okay? That adorable cat at the end of your video. Was he or she running around or playing just before you filmed that clip? Was something stressful going on? Did you speed up the clip for some reason? I'm asking because Kitty took 21 breaths in 15 seconds, for a respiratory rate of 84 breaths a minute. That's way too high unless the kitty was out of breath from activity or has an underlying health issue - anything over 30 bpm is concerning, and anything over 40 could be very serious. If this is something you're already aware of and are working with a vet on, feel free to ignore this comment. If Kitty was just chasing the dog or getting the zoomies, then it's probably no big deal. But, if not please get Kitty to the vet, because the sooner you figure out what's going on, the more options you have for dealing with it.
I'm sure it is. The math hardly changes in either case, as it simply boils down to spending way less than you make, so if you're spending more on kids, to reach a similar velocity, you need to make that much more. Mr. Money Mustache, cited in this video, retired at 30 BEFORE having kids, so that affects how easy it was for him.
Ever since quitting my old job, pizza delivery, which destroyed my car (that I already planned on ditching for most trips anyway once I could get a new job), I no longer own one at all and I do everything I can to avoid personal motor vehicle use now.
Moving into a walkable neighbourhood in the city and not replacing my old car when it died are some of the best decisions I've made in life. I have access to a dozen car-share vehicles nearby and drive (mostly electric) about 4 to 6 times a year. I don't miss owning a car even a tiny bit. Almost all my trips are foot and bike with transit working well for me 4 to 6 times a month. For me, buying a condo overcame my lack of discipline to contribute to gaining some wealth security. No vehicle helped.
i rent right downtown in a big city, my rent is at least $1100 below market rate (thanks rent control)... meaning i save ~$13,000 per year... right off the bat... i put that into investments meaning i can retire 5 years early (ive done the match/projections).. an extra $13k a year after tax would require a promotion at work and more stress that i dont want, so my mental health is better too.. i also take advantage of higher salaries in the big city
I have one 14 years old car and live in a bit remote low density area (5-7km of driving to the nearest grocery). My work is remote but it can change soon and when it does I want to live in 15-min walk from my office at max. But I'm going to keep my car to be able to drive out of city on weekends as I enjoy hiking and like to explore nearby nature areas with my dogs. I calculated that insuracne+gas cost is still lower then renting out the car for a trip
I think for everyone it's different. Renting can be highly volatile (pushed out of my last 3 places due to rent increases, parents pushed out of last 4 due to either rent increases or landlord reclaiming the space), and particularly uncertain for pets since so many places jack rent and/or have restrictions on pets. Small apartments also aren't great for larger dogs. I get your feelings on yard work but if you r/fucklawns, replace with native plants, and mostly focus on small plot gardening, and you enjoy it, it can be a big net plus rather than a negative. I moved into a house just barely in the burbs with good transit access and it's been a huge happiness upgrade despite increased cost. I love the Subaru I just inherited but I look for any reason to use transit. Not everyone has the luxury of choice. Being DINK makes an enormous difference in the types of choices available. There's nothing wrong with wanting different things out of one's life. I think it's just important to be mindful of the ROI on certain choices. I know despite the money savings I'd be much less happy with your lifestyle...
Once you buy a car, especially a cheap yet reliable yet fuel efficient one (say, a 10-20 year old Toyota Corolla/Matrix (or Pontiac Vibe as the mustache guy pointed out)), the added cost to use it frequently can be less than the cost of taking public transit, especially the more expensive modes (like Metrolink commuter rail in Los Angeles or BART), especially if you are going as a group (thr added cost for four people to go to the same place in a car is very tiny; on public transit it's four times as much typically). A private car also has advantages over public transit (try getting six bags of groceries home on the bus).
Thanks for pointing out that the Retire Early part of FIRE is not necessary or even should be sought always. If I had to bet, most of the people who get financially independent before they are like 50 don't actually retire permanently. Most people do like to work in some capacity, FIRE just allows you to choose without any regard to pay.
Very glad that CityNerd rejected the "retire early" part of FIRE, which I have always found very silly if it is intended as the default choice. Why would you want to retire, if you can still find work that, all things considered, you enjoy doing? Of course, it's different if the only jobs you can get are at a factory behind a conveyor belt.
It's a different definition of retirement. I plan on retiring into doing what I do now, programming, but on projects that I want to do that may never make me money.
Most people do actually need something productive to do with their days, to occupy their minds if nothing else. I am fortunate to have a job that I don't hate, so for me "retirement" will probably still involve working for short stints. It will keep me busy when I get bored and provide a little bit of money to pay the bills so everyday expenses don't eat into savings.
I recently went car-lite: i can walk to a grocery store and if i need something specific i can take the bus or metro to specialty stores. I can take busses and trains to work. Its a out a 90min commute, depending on the last bus connection being on time, but there have been times i have driven to work and it took me 3 hours. Overall, i still have a car because there are places in my area i cannot get to via transit or walking, specifically a hospital that my insurance will cover. But if my car does die (2009 Toyota) i can survive without it. Its been great going car lite. I wish i could afford to live closer to the city center, but the housing market here sucks Edit: spelling
@@Mitchell-me7bp no not LA. I live in the mid-ring suburbs of the city. Far enough for somewhat affordable rents, but not so close as to be near a Metro station. Which, from what I have heard, is a lot like living in LA lol
I respect the idea of having zero cars but with kids its simply impossible in the USA. Places that allow you to walk and simply do not have housing for families, let alone affordable housing. Non-car options like taxies/ubers do not work with kids since they don't have carseats. Bikes are really hard to make work. I get by with one minivan in my family of five but its simply not workable to eliminate it.
Depending on what infrastructure you have in your area, you can make a cargo bike or a bike trailer work really well. People in my neighborhood use Razor-style scooters (I don't know a non-brand name to identify them) to escort their kids to pre-school, which the kids love doing, and then carry their kids' extremely lightweight scooters back home after drop-off.
We were forced to the suburbs due to schools. It’s a shame, but private school just wasn’t going to make financial sense. But I do miss the city living every day
I'd love to live in a city again but I've put so much into my 2 acres and built so many gardens. I want the best of both worlds but it doesn't seem possible... I hate driving and I hate having to have a car.
You'd better believe my life changed once I got rid of my car 20 years ago. I was initially afraid that my world would shrink. Instead, I've been able to travel the world since then. Getting rid of my car opened up the entire world for me. (I live in Chicago.)
Important topic. If you want to be active when you retire than FIRE will be needed. I retired at 57. Could I mountain bike or hike the miles now that I did then, no way. Want to stay ahead...don't get divorced. Easy to say I know. Start saving for retirement before you are 30 years old. Low cost funds with an expense under 1%. Live in an area below the average cost in the Country. Buy what you need. If your basement or garages are full you are losing. Monthly service fees are a killer. Get a beater bike, they just about always get stolen if locked outside. Car share with friends or family. I mean one reliable car you all have an equal share of owning. Vehicles are a terrible investment as noted in this piece. Oh yes, cook your own food.
It’s why I gave up so much to move from Fresno, CA to Denver, CO. Instead of having to drive 30-40 minutes every day for work I have the privilege to walk to the medical campus I work at. I save so much more money being able to take transit and not using my car has forced me to save more money. Also I am so happy he mentioned hedonic adaptation. Instead of spending 1.5 - 2k a year on vacations I can spend way less of that catching local concerts and shows without worrying about travel costs. Yeah my space is smaller and I’m poorer from the move but at least right now I’m happier!
Question: Lets say you and your wifes workplaces are about 90 minutes from each other. There is no public transportation. How do you do that on one car? There is no housing near my work and minimal housing near my wifes work. Oh also we have a yard but about 60% of it is garden and chicken coup. We eat out of our yard.
This video really brings me internal struggle. I agree with what you say. I hate cars. I think they're the biggest income suck on American society. We never talk about this but they are disproportionately expensive for the working poor. I believe in most cities you have to have a car. A lot of people don't have the luxury of living near their employment. They get a job where they can and then need to get there. In my city the bus works on a hub and spoke system. While you may be only three miles from work you'd have to go into the hub then back out to where you work. What can take five minutes in the car can take 1.5 hours on the bus. I know you can in theory ride a bike but the weather is not always good for that. Either way, cars suck and make you poor. I do have a car but it's older than dirt and I hope it lasts until I turn into dirt. With regard to living in dense housing. My mind says this is the right thing to do but in practice has just driven me nuts in the past. Living this way puts me face to face with what drives me crazy about people. Most are lazy and inconsiderate. Apartments and condos with interior halls for example. Often people put their trash in the hall thinking they'll dump it tomorrow. I don't want to walk past that. Then there are those where you take your stuff to the community dumpster and then there's garbage every where because it gets full or people are too lazy to put it in properly. Most every community is okay to have dogs. I like dogs but I don't like their poop and them jumping on me. This seems to always happen. People don't pick up after them or control them. People are loud. They talk too loud and I hear them through the walls or they play music and watch TV too loud. I have kids. Sometimes they're too loud and then I feel uncomfortable or I get dirty looks for them being loud. What I ended up doing was buying a house that cost way too much but I'm walking distance to my kids school, grocery store, places I like to eat etc. I don't think there is a perfect solution. I think we can all try to consume less, drive less etc. I love your content because it causes us or lest the open minded ones to challenge their norms and give things a second thought.
Appreciate you again highlighting the great American establishment of the Cheesecake Factory. Maybe a future video on the top ten most urbanist/transit accessible Cheesecake Factory locations in the US? :P
I give up. "Having [...] car is just a wasteful extravagance." This is such a maddening take. It only works if you have an extremely narrow view of what jobs and other lifestyle choices are acceptable to you. Where some of us are actively looking for ways to reduce our VMT (in a pseudo-city that is extraordinarily hostile to anything other than driving), we're constantly subjected to this arrogant nonsense. This makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.
ehhh, if you just like renting, then cool, but erasing the value of home equity b/c of having to do occasional maintence is a bit of a stretch. Housing is almost always going to be your largest expense. You can either re-capture some of that money spent, or not.
I haven't really heard about FIRE but interestingly enough i arrived at some of the same thoughts when i learned about Max Weber's concept of the protestant work ethic in uni. To oversimplify it, Weber wrote about how Protestantism brought a change in philosophy that enabled the rise of capitalism. Basically it used to be that people only worked until they had enough to meet their needs and then stopped. If they were able to make more then they would just work less. With the rise of protestantism, hard work started to be seen as a virtue in itself and people started to aim to make an excess that could be put away or reinvested. Reading about it made it really sink in that the capitalist rat race hasn't always been a thing and it's possible to disengage from it. FIRE has some differences since it does involve saving money but at it's core it's the same thing: work as much as you need to meet your needs and then stop. (Also i should add that it's been a while since i read it and maybe i didn't represent Weber's theory well. If you're interested in it you should look into it yourself.)
There is YARD WORK and then there is PRISON YARD WORK. Some people actually "feel" empathy towards Nature and Life. For this group, living off grid in an abandoned 3rd World country, or even a suppressed 2nd World Eastern European country offers even more personal freedom and individual satisfaction in part for the semi isolation it entails.
Maybe it’s specific to my area’s housing market, but my mortgage payment is 40% less than what a house on my street rents for, and half what a 3br apartment rents for. So the opportunity cost in my calculus is a little bit different. Something to think about.
Psyched to see two of my nerdy favorite topics discussed by you. Indeed, it's life changing when you look at things this way. You sound to me at a Coast FI: you reached a level where your invested assets will continue on without you adding , to a normal traditional age retirement, and in the meantime you just have to cover your expenses, doing something you actually enjoy a lot more, and living a very happy life now. Isn't that FI? FI>FIRE. I'm persuing that path myself.
I'm surprised there isn't more crossover between urbanist TH-cam and the FIRE movement. I definitely came to the former by way of the latter, and I think both movements speak to people who appreciate efficiency. I came across the FIRE movement and Mr. Money Mustache in early 2018, and my spreadsheet projects I'm now approximately 5 years away from hitting my FIRE number, even in NYC, frequently rated one of the most expensive places to live.
A prerequisite to FIRE is also to be high income. The philosophy is nice, but its difficult to be proselytized to by people who spend more in a year than you make.
@@SomeDudeQC While the FIRE community got saturated with high earners over the last decade, initially it had far more people who earned around average income and just lived very frugal lifestyles to achieve high savings rates. FIRE is obviously inaccessible to a large fraction of the population, but its also not a strictly top 10% thing.
@@SomeDudeQC It's not a prerequisite; it just makes it a lot easier. One of the best things about MMM is that his blog has 1001 ways to spend less money.
@@aozora7 A few things can help normal people achieve at least the FI part outside of high income. One is starting early. Another is the incredible bull run the market has been on in the last fifteen years. For FIRE to be accessible to normal incomes, it needs to have rising stock prices which requires growth which requires most people stay on the hamster wheel of consumption.
@@gamelord12 I make average money and spend very little. We moved to a more affordable city and chose to live in the cheaper, more central, but more run down area. We have an old beater but mostly bike, walk and bus. We budget every cent, clip coupons and buy very little. I can save about 1k a month. At a 4% real rate of return, I can hopefully expect to retire with 600k at 65.
When you are married and have kids you have to ecomomize Cycling and walking is a lot cheaper and healthier than public transportation or using a car , allowing you to enjoy life more after the kids hopefully move out.
We definitely need a replacement for “retirement”. Many people would benefit from mid-life/-career sabbaticals that could be achieved with the same mindset, even if working on passion projects after time-for-income years.
I live in a nice walkable town in Germany and work remotely. The time it frees up has improved my life enormously. The cost savings are also quite extreme. The work life balance you get from car free living where you can walk anywhere you need to go and where work is very close or no distance at all is great.
Some Canadians spend over 3 hours a day driving to work and back. Traffic is getting worse. They could take the train but they would still have to pay for a car. The design is for big stores like Walmart or Costco located far away with poor public transportation. Some people are basically forced to drive to get around when they are not going to work.
![อิสราเอลโดนอิหร่านถล่มหนักกว่าที่คุย : [คุยผ่าโลก worldtalk]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R8gIN-MQhWw/mqdefault.jpg)
This whole video was really just a long way of saying, if you could just cut out the $16 avocado toast you'd be retiring from the workforce in your early 20's. But, since you've decided that $16 avocado toast is non-negotiable, you might as well spend a couple bucks a month on a subscription to Nebula, the creator-owned streaming service where you can find all my videos ad-free, promotion-free, AND EARLY. It's a great way to support what I do, too! Use my link here to get the best deal, and check the description box for more options. go.nebula.tv/citynerd
Hey Ray! Yeah I also don't love the way retirement is framed as the goal of wealth accumulation, so I'm a bigger fan of the FINE (Financial Independence, New Endeavor) movement/framing
@@quentinthernize6678 I call it FIFE (Financial Independence, Freedom Early)
Looooooool 😂
$16 omg! I could eat out lots but by NOT eating out and not buying expensive meat I save oodles of money.
An aspect of FIRE rarely talked about is maintaining health to then enjoy that financial freedom. Biking and walking instead of relying on a car are incredibly beneficial for long term health, whereas studies increasingly find that sedentary behavior (e.g. driving) is one of the worst things you can do to your body
Not to mention that exercising really stretches your health span minimizing any age related health expenses you may need later in life.
And also the mentality/ability to figure things out, and deal with setbacks. Through-hiking and riding my bike everywhere taught me a lot about life that I find hard to explain to those who have never done it.
Unless you get hit by a car while biking or walking, or breathe in too much pollution generated by cars.
@@deadhead3100 If you drive to get around for everything, your chance of becoming an unhealthy or just less healthy person is far higher than your chance of getting hit when walking or biking. And the health benefits from doing those things also outweigh the risks from breathing in car exhaust.
@@deadhead3100 ah yes, crashes and pollution, only risks pedestrians face
I once again am bringing up the urbanist visionary Ben Folds and his foundational text, "Rockin' The Suburbs" as heard in the award winning film, Over the Hedge: "We drive our cars every day to and from work both ways so we make just enough to pay to drive our cars to work each day; hey, hey"
I just saw Ben Folds live a few weeks ago. Didn’t realize before then how cool he was!! Writes about really interesting stuff
I live in Queens, a very walkable part of NYC. Not too long ago, I was at a playdate with my daughter, and her friend's dad suggested we go out for lunch. We decided on a Tibetan restaurant very close to us. In fact, the restaurant is exactly a ten-minute walk from their house. This man looked me in the face and suggested we take his car there. When you mention that car owners find excuses to use their car, you weren't kidding.
I've crashed at a friend's place out of town, and because it was drizzling a little bit, they suggested driving across the street to the convenience store rather than just wearing a hood or getting an umbrella.
@@gamelord12 🫠
I’m a car owner, and I’d just walk
This video is the reason why im choosing to move to a high density city where cars aren’t needed. im 22, have a job in software lined up, and want to FIRE by the time im 40. My parents cannot comprehend that I don’t plan on buying a car, but I will be saving thousands that will directly be going into Roth/401k. Great video as always :)
absolutely insane that the prospect of not dropping a 25k+ expense on a motor vehicle and prioritizing your future wellbeing instead, is seen as odd. it's simply beyond me
It's amazing going car free. Did the same for my first 7 years in Seattle and only got a car in 2021 because I was tired of renting during the pandemic but wanted to do more outdoorsy stuff
It was one of the few times in history where a new car (at 0% APR because no one was buying st the time) actually was worth more a few months after buying it (chip shortage).
Ironically I could only "afford" it at that point because we were living the DINK life with good careers and we could actually afford 1.2k/month in insurance+loan+parking.
That said I still drive it so infrequently I killed the battery and had to buy a battery tender
An ebike is where the sweet spot is. You can do your weekly grocery run and it keeps up with vehicle traffic on city streets + let's you actually go up hills in sf or Seattle
Instead of focusing on owning a car, why don't you take a look at your overall spending ?
Library book instead of buying a book.
More walking or cycling.
No gym membership.
Clothes, concerts, expensive coffee. HBO, Netflix, NBA tickets. Cutting back could save $20, 000 over a 10-year period . Then you can spend without paying credit card interest.
At that age, city life has a lot of advantages. Years from now you might want something different. The other option is WFH in cheaper (probably rural) housing. Vanlife is another option. All 3 can be done with similar total budgets.
@@cjmassino do old people just not live in Tokyo or Amsterdam or Paris?
“The government doesn’t need to threaten me with incarceration within a 15 minute city, I’ll gladly do it myself” was the most underrated line in this whole video lol. I’m car free since 2013, and have been urban city living since then up until this year. I lost my job and had to move in with family about an hour away in the suburbs. There are no sidewalks. Everything is a 15-20 min drive away. My family is incredibly sedentary. I’m more depressed and unhealthy than I’ve ever been and am praying for the day I can find remote employment get back to the city again.
The wife and I discovered FIRE about 11 years ago and set in place a plan to retire at 50. Well, we hit our number 3 years early and we both quit our jobs. The plan is to move around the world while we are still in good health (Costa Rica now, Thailand next). FIRE really changed our lives for the better. A big part of our FIRE plan was downsizing our suburban house for a semi-urban condo and not upgrading our cars every 2-3 years. We still drove a lot but with two paid of cars it was very cheap. Great video, CityNerd!
If you don’t mind me asking, what was your number?
My view of this is a bit different. I watched my parents reach an age where they could no longer drive. They lived in a car-dependent suburb, and the loss of mobility was devastating, especially for my father. I've been telling my wife our next move needs to be with this in mind. We need to be in a place where we can reach grocery stores, restaurants, a YMCA, pharmacies, doctors, and other services without having a car.
it would be great if I could afford such a place
This is something I wish cities thought about more. Many people can't drive. Building car centric cities is unfair.
@@m.rosebarlow7699we need to make cities more affordable
wait, I dont need to buy a new iPhone, renovate the kitchen and get a new SUV every 2 years? wtf
No, but if you do, you can whine about unfairness and boomers and be cool. So, there’s that.
Correct, it's every 3 years now! 😂
That has nothing to do with where you live?
@@nunyabidness3075 Yeah, the whole generation wars stuff is played out and lame
I figured out hedonic adaptation when I managed to purchase my first house in my 20's. I then started to fantasize not simply about owning a home, but owning a larger, nicer one in a nicer neighbourhood. And then it hit me that there was no end to this cycle: there would always be a larger, nicer home in a nicer area just out of reach. So obviously that wasn't any sort of path to happiness and I should stop pursuing it. Have owned two cars, both bought used with cash. Did the numbers and saw how car loans and new car depreciation were for suckers. Also lived car-free for a decade (what persuaded me to get another one was my interest in hiking and the outdoors). Have mostly lived in what are regarded as expensive cities yet not focusing on acquiring material things has given me the freedom to work a lot less than most do. Having a life that revolves around owning cars and driving them everyplace has never appealed to me.
@CityNerd you're right, yardwork sucks, but gardening doesn't so much, and helps out with one of the issues a lot of folks in lower income areas in cities have: fresh fruits and veggies. I think a lot of people also get a sense of connection to the land through gardening, and it makes trekking out to "nature" (I believe you talked about some of those difficulties in a recent video) less necessary.
That might be a good top ten list sometime, best cities for urban gardeners.
And no, not lawns. Green lawns are an abomination everywhere that doesn't have the humidity of Ohio.
I agree, yard work is pointless
We just did a similar evaluation and sold our house in the suburbs and moved to a high rise apartment. I have so much more free time not having to maintain a yard or drive everywhere.
Yard work is a terrible time and money sink. If I ever buy a house it will not have a grass yard.
When I sold my first house and went back to renting an apartment, that was the thing that hit me my first or second weekend. I immediately started thinking of what yard work I had to do that weekend, and how much time I had free to do other things, and "Wait! No yard! No yard work at all! It's all free time this weekend! All of it!"
For me doing outdoorsy stuff is very necessary to my happiness, and that’s super hard without a car. For how often I take trips that are impossible without a car (eg going hiking in the mountains), and due to my current job being inaccessible by transit, my household needs 1 car. But we are always making choices to avoid a second car because the marginal expense would be so high.
I'm in that boat too. And though I do most of what I can to keep that vehicle cost down (paid $5000 cash for older used car, drive very little), I acknowledge that I am less wealthy as a result, even if I'm in a different stratosphere than most car owners.
Most people have a vice in their personal finances somewhere, the key is just to not have too many or have them be too extreme.
Me too! I'm in the mountains or desert every weekend, and love road tripping to national parks. I couldn't do this stuff without a car. In saying that, I bought a 7k car with cash and live in a small apartment in a walkable area, so that all helps cost-wise. I have done many years without cars when I've lived places in the central city with no parking, and it was indeed freeing, but I also do live to get out of the city and go hiking and camping, and would miss that greatly. Car-lite definitely works best for me - I don't need a fancy car and only use it when I need it. I still walk and take the bus or trolley a lot.
Furthermore I can sleep in my car before/after my outdoor trips which would cost me one or two nights in paid accomodation even if the outdoor location was accessible by public transport...otoh as long as said car is cheaper than the bicycle in the trunk you're doing it right ;)
A miracle has happened. My son the car addict had his car totaled and he has received a settlement. He now does not see any reason to buy a new car! Excellent!
That feeling when City Nerd confesses to being a fellow Mustachian
I appreciate you making this video. Mr. Money Mustache was the one who got me to buy a bike and it changed my whole perspective on life. That was 8 years ago. I significantly reduced using my car and then sold it 2 years ago. I can't even begin to say freeing not owning a car is. No more payments, no more insurance. When I need a car I rent or ask someone for a ride. I actually hit my fire number sooner than I expected, but now I'm planning on moving out of a cheap red state because of the crazy hateful politics so my expenses are about to dramatically increase. But it is worth it.
Also I agree with the not retiring part of this movement. I just want the freedom. Freedom to work on what ever I want. I get to be grad student working on exciting open source projects which I wouldn't if I was in the "proper" work force.
I sold both my cars and moved out of the suburbs to an affordable walkable area, largely thanks to this channel. Never been happier. Thanks Ray!
I’ve lived without a car in London and didn’t ever need one. In Boston I did miss having a car with its terrible public transport. Also, if you have small children, having a car and a backyard are nice to have
When I lived in Seattle, I parked my car for 2 years without paying insurance to bike and use busses as my modes of transit. If I needed a car for a large grocery haul or to go to a far suburb, I would just get a Zipcar. Saved so much money that way!
I live out bush in Western Australia and I appreciate the caveat that this specific lifestyle isn't feasible for all. We actually live in a very walkable bush town with everything we need on our doorstep. Living a (nearly) waste free life and making our home more sustainable is enough happiness for us, despite the absolutely awful few years of uncertainty we've experienced. Love your channel! 💚
I live car-free in Baltimore; it's great. There's plenty to do here as well as on the Northeast Corridor. The yard is small enough that I enjoy working on it; any larger and it would bother me. Had never planned on owning but the rent vs. own economics worked out when I moved here. It's nice that the job can go away and I don't immediately have to worry about replacing the income since the expenses are way down with not being tethered to a car payment.
Appreciate your thoughts sir. Thank you.
(Aside: My wife and I took a recent train adventure during discount-weekend-pricing and it was such a welcome difference from riding in our regular wheeled-metal-coffin that we can't wait for the next "cheap" adventure. Keep inspiring us to do better CityNerd.)
Trains are so civilized
I've been car-free my entire life, as I simply detest driving; I do not even have a license. I've lived only in very large cities, and cannot imagine living otherwise. That said, what I think Mr Nerd discounts somewhat about home ownership is its intersection with the desire to design and personalize your living and entertaining quarters far beyond what is possible in a rental property through structural alterations. Similarly, with respect to having yard (or just outdoor space of any variety), the value of gardening and yardwork as a genuinely relaxing and meditative pursuit in its own right should get a little more credit. But this is a matter of personal preference, and I realize many people see yard maintenance as a burden.
Renting in a metropolis and owning something more rural allows for both options to be pursued
Agreed. Planting veggies in four good-sized raised beds -and weeding them regularly, is very relaxing. Plus, the taste of the tomatoes, carrots, sweet onions, etc. is an added healthy bonus.
Yeah, I know, there’s sickos out there that enjoy yard work. There’s probably also sickos out there that enjoy cleaning toilets. I don’t enjoy either. But whatever floats your boat.
I don’t understand your point about the opportunity cost of owning a house. You said the S&P 500 has outperformed housing price increases. Sure. But it’s not like the absence of a mortgage opens all that money up for investing. Figure out the true cost of ownership (mortgage, HOA, maintenance, closing costs, etc.) and compare that to rent. Since your mortgage is fixed (insurance, maintenance, etc. can go up) and rent has done nothing but skyrocket in my town over the past few years, I’ve gotten to a point where I’d be spending more money monthly if I were still renting.
varies a lot based on location
You also can't ignore leverage. Bank won't just lend you 400 000$ to put into index funds.
@@bionj1980 well yeah, all real estate does, but that doesn’t change the fact the analysis here implied that any money spent on home ownership is money that could have been thrown into other investments, which is wrong. You always have to consider how much you’d spend on renting and consider the deltas. The actual numbers always vary, but the analysis presented here is just wrong.
These situations always depend on the individual's options. Someone who didn't buy a home 10, 20, 30 years ago is not getting the same lower mortgage as the person who has owned their home for 10 years.
There's an opportunity cost to your down payment, and if your down payment is small, you're paying PMI. There are a lot of cases where that opportunity cost is high.
Definitely a big draw of the "undervalued cities" segments is planning out where I could move for a coasting early retirement. I really would like to be able to take the time to work on creative projects with the expectation that it's okay if I fail, because my costs are low enough to quickly recover/take a part time job for a bit if needed.
The spending is outrageous here on Long Island. And everyone wants their house to be high in price then wonder why taxes get higher. Housing is a terrible investment!
Between maintenance, property taxes, and the rising cost of insurance, people really need to take a hard look at whether owning a house is right for them.
I walk or take public transportion most everywhere I go. I moved back to San Francisco during Covid. It is cheaper for me to live in this expensive city rather than commute with cheaper rent elsewhere. A vehicle is the difference maker
“Who wants to retire anyway?” You saved the best line for last. I’m in my 60s and technically retired, but I do volunteer work that I love. My spouse loves his paid job, and is planning on tapering rather than retiring.
I used to live in the core of Toronto, I didn't need a car, that used to offset the extra cost of living there. Not any more, rents are way up.
I don't personally live this way for a variety of reasons, but you can unquestionably live a less expensive life with a small household in a walkable urban area, especially if you are car free or "car light" (single older well maintained vehicle, just one). This is true even in places like San Francisco, I have family members who live there exactly like this, with a single older well maintained car used for occasional longer trips, not daily commute. You can live especially easily this way in some of the less pricey cities like Philly, I have a car free nephew grad student there living very comfortably on a meager grad student stipend.
Its tougher to live this way with school age kids, because as a general rule most urban school districts aren't excellent and private schools are very pricey. And for some very high income people state and local taxes in some states can be a problem. Of course those people aren't probably looking for a low expense way to live.
But for people not in that circumstance, it is a great way to live.
I've never owned a car, much less worried about the depreciation and the insurance and all that extra stuff. All that stuff is foreign; living in New York City, the only transportation costs I think are about whether I should be getting the weekly MetroCard unlimited right away or just doing OMNY pay-per-ride until it becomes an unlimited, and the occasional gas when going on a road trip with friends. It all seems like a bunch of extra expenses, with not much difference in use of time, and any advantage of driving being very marginal.
And now that OMNY is weekly pay maximum by default, just go for that!
Some of us drive used paid-for cars and arent spending the 1000K a month city fetishists love to pretend we are.
Im 18 and would like to now own a car as well as I have in the past and I dislike it and I enjoy biking and public transport instead. I noticed you say you live in NYC, although I’d love to live in nyc I’m afraid at my age and how much I make I wouldn’t be able to do that, any other city’s you’d recommend for not owning a car?
In my experience, cities are too expensive even with a car free lifestyle. Medium density or even rural areas can be more affordable, but only if you can minimize the commute (carpool?) and other transportation expenses.
There's plenty of cheap cities. Also, rural areas don't have many rentals available so it drives up demand
the cheap cities aren't where the jobs in my industry are, though
Disagree. I have family members with below median local incomes doing this right now in Denver, SF, and Philly. Most have one older car, one has no car. It's not high living, but it is definitely possible.
If NYC can just build housing at the rate it needs it.... it would be very cheap place to live...
I'm on my FIRE journey now living in car dependent Columbus for now. Once I "retire" I hope to be running an affordable housing company or non-profit
I have been car free since 2019 and it has made my life so much easier. I see cars as archaic now as the future I long for is frequent and useful public transit. In my Montreal suburb it is only half frequent and partially useful but I can easily make do without car ownership.
I never owned a car at all during the 20 years I lived in Seattle and Ann Arbor, MI. It wasn't always easy, but it was definitely much cheaper than driving. I live in Albuquerque now (same as you) but, unlike you, I just couldn't swing the car-free living anymore. I perhaps made a bit of a financial mistake in buying here as, even though I locked in a much-less-than-Seattle-rent-prices mortgage, I now have car expenses... but I'm still living well within my means and both purchases have yielded dividends in mental health. I don't have a wife or kids, so... caring for and maintaining a house and car kind of fill a void, in a weird way. Besides which, without a car I felt *very* isolated here and it was taking a huge toll. And taking trips I wouldn't otherwise take is sort of a goal when you're new somewhere!
I wrote this for two reasons: 1) despite everything I just said, I appreciate the reminder to really do the hard math - both financial and emotional - when the used car I bought reaches the end of its life and 2) If you watched the video and the idea of living car free is overwhelming because you're not ready to do that hard math or, if in your circumstance, the math is *really* hard - it's ok. Doing the best you can with what you have now is ok.
My wife and I paired back from two cars to one about 1.5 years ago. She works about 8 miles away two days a week without viable public transportation, so we still need the one car. I mainly bike to work at this point but drive a couple days per week if I have multiple meetings around town that I can't get to by bike or the weather's terrible. No car payment at least and it's a 9-year-old car so depreciation is modest at this point. Still dreaming of that car-free living; someday!
Just a note on "expensive vacations" juxtaposed next to the cruise ship, you can get some pretty great deals on cruises. It's full room, board, meals, entertainment and travel bundled into one for 3-7+ days. Minus cost of getting to the port of course and any extras you add on. Just choose your time of season wisely and realize that excursions usually cost extra yes.
I don't know....Going on a cruise is like walking into Walmart and saying, “Yes, I’d like to go on vacation with all of these people.”
@@randalmiller1080 There's some of that, but eh. If i take a 20hr plan ride to Japan I'm stuck next to strangers in tight places and visit the biggest city in the world anyway. There's always trade offs.
Love that fresh new video scent!
Love this video. It’s certainly more challenging with kids, in the car-brained Midwest, but the wife and I are weaning ourselves off of cars. Home ownership is another matter, we’ve already made a good chunk from buying a “worst house in a good neighborhood” and doing a bunch of renovations, and it’s easier to not have to search for rentals if you have dogs. But every time I see a massive, $70k truck, I see an idiot who is wasting their money.
Kudos for your pronunciation of the word "primer" in context
I need a video that targets the suburban/exurban typical person who somehow is convinced they must live out in the countryside or a forest and cannot be anywhere near a city. Is there any type of medium/small-sized city that somehow almost satisfy both? (I don't need this, I love cities... just hate how this comes up all the time it feels like and I have no response to it)
Albuquerque spotted @ 00:15
the buses in my city are free, so ive been trying to take them more whenever i can! even if it adds 20 minutes or so to my commute, its a fair trade off to the anxiety that i get while driving and the little bit of gas im saving lol
Living in LA I don't think I'll ever be able to live car free, both because "LA" can mean family still lives out in the OC or IE and it doesn't look like that's going to be easy to get to any time soon, and because of family health issues, but having only one car and an e-bike has saved us a ton of money. I agree about the "retire early" part not being a huge deal, I think it's better to have a job that pays well enough that you don't hate and gives you enough freedom to pursue your own goals is a better deal than working at a high stress, high paying job that you hate and gives you less free time. I try to proselytize family about one car ownership where possible but it doesn't look like it's had much impact, but hopefully I can at least teach my kid that riding your bike and taking the bus isn't just for poor people.
I've never heard of this "FIRE" ideology but I guess I've always agreed with it anyway. I wouldn't say I'm cheap but I'm definitely frugal and don't find ways to spend money for the hell of it. Modern capitalism has perverted the idea of spending money as a requirement to live and keep up with society instead of something that gives you the freedom to do what you want. If you don't spend all your money on a new car, new phone, new clothes, etc. every chance you get when the old one works fine, you free up money for other things. But the bean counters act like all this money will sit there and people will do nothing all day hoarding money, probably because they're projecting what they do with their money.
Simplification of choices to increase happiness is an interesting concept. Yes, going car-free is one approach. I find that small town living (down to about 10,000 population) is another. It works especially well if it’s a tourist destination, as you’ll get more services per person in the off-season.
You still get good coffee shops, pubs, and restaurants, but can focus on favorites and make local friends there. You won’t get swanky night clubs, but those are just more keep-up-with-the-Joneses places anyway. You can get the apartment or the yard, and still be able to bike or walk for groceries, dining, dentist, and doctor.
I’ve long known that I like small towns. Now I know that their fewer choices are a benefit, rather than a downside.
where is my JOB, though? Not small towns.
I rent. Two 10 to 14 vacations, and another 10 days of single day trips costs me about 5 to 6 thousand a year. And every time I drive I drive a new car.
It was about 15 years ago in my 20s that my car broke down and I just wasn't making the money necessary to pay to fix it. Up to this point I had done everything in my power to keep my car running because it was you know... all I had in my sprawly south Florida region to get around. You NEED a car right? Right?
Thankfully I was already doing freelance stuff online quite a bit, so I leaned into that more (still didn't make a lot of money, but it meant I didn't have to commute 30 mins to work). And I checked out the map and found... actually... everything I needed was actually technically in walking distance. Don't get me wrong, some people would scoff at the distances... heck at the time I did! But I had to walk and when you need groceries and the sort, walking was the only option (the delivery services of today didn't exist, some grocery stores offered it, but it was so niche at the time I wouldn't have known to attempt it).
And honestly... I liked it! Sure weather impacted it, but you know, I just had to schedule my shopping around the weather. I even got myself one of those "granny baskets" on wheels to carry the groceries home when I did a big purchase. But really I got into a habit of buying what I needed and just shopping more frequently. My vegetable intake went up actually because I was buying and eating them within 2 days anyways with the frequency of my shopping.
I did end up getting a car again when I reentered an office job. But I bought a little Toyota Yaris for 11K at the time brand new (I swear... they really need to bring the Yaris back). I got married and my wife found it weird how little I drove. I drove to work, that was it. Then we moved across the country (we had enough of Florida). So we're now in the northeast and I gave my Yaris to my brother back in Florida, and we got my wife a Subaru.
We're now a 1 car house. My wife needs it to get to the office downtown.
But I'm at home out here in the woods and I get by walking. There's a little 7-eleven with a grinder shop next door a little less than a mile from my house. There's a small new england town center a little further than that. And a grocery store a brisk bike ride from there (3-4 miles?). Honestly... it's not the distance, it's the HILL I live on that makes the bike ride to the grocery rough. But still... it's NOT bad.
My wife was VERY skeptical of it. She did not believe me when I told her I would make it work when we had just 1 car. She assumed within weeks I'd be chomping at the bit to buy a 2nd car. But here we are 5 years later still a 1 car house in the woods and honestly I prefer it. This is how I get my exorcise! My brother actually moved up here to too (he's now my neighbor) and I'll be walking to the store and he'll drive by me going to the same store. Then in the store he'll go on about how he needs to hit the gym because of his gut.
"I told you I was going to the store, you could have walked with me?"
He'll just laugh, buy his monster energy drink, and get back in his car and drive home.
Thing is... if you told 20 year old me that 40 year old me wouldn't have his own car and would walk/bicycle everywhere. I'd laugh in your face. Me? I literally grew up in a truck driver family that hauled cars! Cars were my life! Don't get me wrong a lot changed before I hit 21 (a lot of my family died and the truck driving went with it). But like I had that mentality that cars were a given. But then I got in a financial situation that forced my hand and I quickly learned... I don't need a car. I mean sure, I need a vehicle on occasion. I need to do a run to the lumber store or go to a show like I did last night. But I can rent a truck or a taxi/uber in those rare occasions and pay FAR LESS than maintaining a car/insurance/fuel.
It's SO expensive. It's hundreds of dollars a month. But like... I used to smoke too. 3 packs a day! And you could tell me how much I blew on butts and I wouldn't bat an eye. It's not "that" much... so what... then I quit (for other reasons... 15 year old me said if I ever made it to 25 I'd quit... so when I woke up 28 one day I was like 'welp, I made it' and quit). After I quit... yeah, that money became obvious!
Cars are different than smoking since their utility is a thing where as butts have no real utility outside of giving you cancer. But the financial point still stands. While you smoke, and while you drive everywhere, you can't imagine a world where you didn't smoke/drive. So telling me I'd save 500+ dollars a month (if not more) cutting just one of them out would have made me laugh. So I get it that it makes others laugh.
But it's true guys. Even in an unwalkable suburban south Florida, or rural New England... you can actually walk!
Anyways, I'm off to grab a grinder and a mtn dizzle.
quality comment, thanks for sharing a window in your life, it sounds like you've got an awesome set-up!
Honestly Mr Money Mustache turned me off to bike commuting when I first read his article about it. I remember him being pretty dismissive of the concerns of people who live outside bike-friendly Colorado when pressed.
Years later, I'm back to biking, after moving to a non-sprawling suburb that's close to my hometown. I'm working my way up to running more and more errands on a bike, as well as biking in all weather (I'm in the Midwest). It's much more approachable for me to consider going "car-lite" instead of "car-free".
Btw I personally hate yard work too but my partner actually loves owning a house that he can work on and personalize, so it's not always up to the individual lol
One of your best yet. Well done my friend
Okay, important question that is unrelated to your video. CityNerd, you're going to want to skim past this, but don't okay?
That adorable cat at the end of your video. Was he or she running around or playing just before you filmed that clip? Was something stressful going on? Did you speed up the clip for some reason?
I'm asking because Kitty took 21 breaths in 15 seconds, for a respiratory rate of 84 breaths a minute. That's way too high unless the kitty was out of breath from activity or has an underlying health issue - anything over 30 bpm is concerning, and anything over 40 could be very serious. If this is something you're already aware of and are working with a vet on, feel free to ignore this comment. If Kitty was just chasing the dog or getting the zoomies, then it's probably no big deal. But, if not please get Kitty to the vet, because the sooner you figure out what's going on, the more options you have for dealing with it.
I feel you, but it just feels very hard to do with a family
I'm sure it is. The math hardly changes in either case, as it simply boils down to spending way less than you make, so if you're spending more on kids, to reach a similar velocity, you need to make that much more. Mr. Money Mustache, cited in this video, retired at 30 BEFORE having kids, so that affects how easy it was for him.
Loving all the vintage portland b roll there. :)
Ever since quitting my old job, pizza delivery, which destroyed my car (that I already planned on ditching for most trips anyway once I could get a new job), I no longer own one at all and I do everything I can to avoid personal motor vehicle use now.
Moving into a walkable neighbourhood in the city and not replacing my old car when it died are some of the best decisions I've made in life. I have access to a dozen car-share vehicles nearby and drive (mostly electric) about 4 to 6 times a year. I don't miss owning a car even a tiny bit. Almost all my trips are foot and bike with transit working well for me 4 to 6 times a month.
For me, buying a condo overcame my lack of discipline to contribute to gaining some wealth security. No vehicle helped.
i rent right downtown in a big city, my rent is at least $1100 below market rate (thanks rent control)... meaning i save ~$13,000 per year... right off the bat... i put that into investments meaning i can retire 5 years early (ive done the match/projections).. an extra $13k a year after tax would require a promotion at work and more stress that i dont want, so my mental health is better too.. i also take advantage of higher salaries in the big city
I have one 14 years old car and live in a bit remote low density area (5-7km of driving to the nearest grocery). My work is remote but it can change soon and when it does I want to live in 15-min walk from my office at max. But I'm going to keep my car to be able to drive out of city on weekends as I enjoy hiking and like to explore nearby nature areas with my dogs. I calculated that insuracne+gas cost is still lower then renting out the car for a trip
I think for everyone it's different. Renting can be highly volatile (pushed out of my last 3 places due to rent increases, parents pushed out of last 4 due to either rent increases or landlord reclaiming the space), and particularly uncertain for pets since so many places jack rent and/or have restrictions on pets. Small apartments also aren't great for larger dogs. I get your feelings on yard work but if you r/fucklawns, replace with native plants, and mostly focus on small plot gardening, and you enjoy it, it can be a big net plus rather than a negative. I moved into a house just barely in the burbs with good transit access and it's been a huge happiness upgrade despite increased cost. I love the Subaru I just inherited but I look for any reason to use transit.
Not everyone has the luxury of choice. Being DINK makes an enormous difference in the types of choices available. There's nothing wrong with wanting different things out of one's life. I think it's just important to be mindful of the ROI on certain choices. I know despite the money savings I'd be much less happy with your lifestyle...
Once you buy a car, especially a cheap yet reliable yet fuel efficient one (say, a 10-20 year old Toyota Corolla/Matrix (or Pontiac Vibe as the mustache guy pointed out)), the added cost to use it frequently can be less than the cost of taking public transit, especially the more expensive modes (like Metrolink commuter rail in Los Angeles or BART), especially if you are going as a group (thr added cost for four people to go to the same place in a car is very tiny; on public transit it's four times as much typically). A private car also has advantages over public transit (try getting six bags of groceries home on the bus).
Thanks for pointing out that the Retire Early part of FIRE is not necessary or even should be sought always. If I had to bet, most of the people who get financially independent before they are like 50 don't actually retire permanently. Most people do like to work in some capacity, FIRE just allows you to choose without any regard to pay.
Very glad that CityNerd rejected the "retire early" part of FIRE, which I have always found very silly if it is intended as the default choice. Why would you want to retire, if you can still find work that, all things considered, you enjoy doing? Of course, it's different if the only jobs you can get are at a factory behind a conveyor belt.
It's a different definition of retirement. I plan on retiring into doing what I do now, programming, but on projects that I want to do that may never make me money.
Most people do actually need something productive to do with their days, to occupy their minds if nothing else. I am fortunate to have a job that I don't hate, so for me "retirement" will probably still involve working for short stints. It will keep me busy when I get bored and provide a little bit of money to pay the bills so everyday expenses don't eat into savings.
I recently went car-lite: i can walk to a grocery store and if i need something specific i can take the bus or metro to specialty stores. I can take busses and trains to work. Its a out a 90min commute, depending on the last bus connection being on time, but there have been times i have driven to work and it took me 3 hours.
Overall, i still have a car because there are places in my area i cannot get to via transit or walking, specifically a hospital that my insurance will cover. But if my car does die (2009 Toyota) i can survive without it.
Its been great going car lite. I wish i could afford to live closer to the city center, but the housing market here sucks
Edit: spelling
Do you live in LA....this sounds like LA....haha
@@Mitchell-me7bp no not LA. I live in the mid-ring suburbs of the city. Far enough for somewhat affordable rents, but not so close as to be near a Metro station. Which, from what I have heard, is a lot like living in LA lol
incredible content as always
I respect the idea of having zero cars but with kids its simply impossible in the USA. Places that allow you to walk and simply do not have housing for families, let alone affordable housing. Non-car options like taxies/ubers do not work with kids since they don't have carseats. Bikes are really hard to make work. I get by with one minivan in my family of five but its simply not workable to eliminate it.
Downsize to an apartment. Make them play on the street !
Depending on what infrastructure you have in your area, you can make a cargo bike or a bike trailer work really well. People in my neighborhood use Razor-style scooters (I don't know a non-brand name to identify them) to escort their kids to pre-school, which the kids love doing, and then carry their kids' extremely lightweight scooters back home after drop-off.
Compounding interest is beautiful
We were forced to the suburbs due to schools. It’s a shame, but private school just wasn’t going to make financial sense. But I do miss the city living every day
Housing in cities can be pricey, especially in cities with good transportation.
soooo pricey. Especially in a city that contains high-paying jobs!
@@m.rosebarlow7699 you realize you can have a good paying job in a city and live in the suburbs or even a rural area right?
I'd love to live in a city again but I've put so much into my 2 acres and built so many gardens. I want the best of both worlds but it doesn't seem possible... I hate driving and I hate having to have a car.
I agree 100%! Also, the older I get, the less I like driving. People can be such rude drivers & it makes me nervous.
Could've fit more streetviewing cool cities I want to visit in a few more places... I heard it in my head
You'd better believe my life changed once I got rid of my car 20 years ago. I was initially afraid that my world would shrink. Instead, I've been able to travel the world since then. Getting rid of my car opened up the entire world for me. (I live in Chicago.)
Important topic.
If you want to be active when you retire than FIRE will be needed. I retired at 57. Could I mountain bike or hike the miles now that I did then, no way.
Want to stay ahead...don't get divorced. Easy to say I know.
Start saving for retirement before you are 30 years old.
Low cost funds with an expense under 1%.
Live in an area below the average cost in the Country.
Buy what you need. If your basement or garages are full you are losing.
Monthly service fees are a killer.
Get a beater bike, they just about always get stolen if locked outside.
Car share with friends or family. I mean one reliable car you all have an equal share of owning. Vehicles are a terrible investment as noted in this piece.
Oh yes, cook your own food.
It’s why I gave up so much to move from Fresno, CA to Denver, CO. Instead of having to drive 30-40 minutes every day for work I have the privilege to walk to the medical campus I work at. I save so much more money being able to take transit and not using my car has forced me to save more money. Also I am so happy he mentioned hedonic adaptation. Instead of spending 1.5 - 2k a year on vacations I can spend way less of that catching local concerts and shows without worrying about travel costs. Yeah my space is smaller and I’m poorer from the move but at least right now I’m happier!
Agreed. Grand expensive vacations are overrated.
Cheesecake Factory sightings start at 7:08 for anyone that only watches these videos to count the number of CF logos. I'm so into it.
Question: Lets say you and your wifes workplaces are about 90 minutes from each other. There is no public transportation.
How do you do that on one car? There is no housing near my work and minimal housing near my wifes work.
Oh also we have a yard but about 60% of it is garden and chicken coup. We eat out of our yard.
Yes if you have generational wealth or a really nice job
This video really brings me internal struggle. I agree with what you say. I hate cars. I think they're the biggest income suck on American society. We never talk about this but they are disproportionately expensive for the working poor. I believe in most cities you have to have a car. A lot of people don't have the luxury of living near their employment. They get a job where they can and then need to get there. In my city the bus works on a hub and spoke system. While you may be only three miles from work you'd have to go into the hub then back out to where you work. What can take five minutes in the car can take 1.5 hours on the bus. I know you can in theory ride a bike but the weather is not always good for that. Either way, cars suck and make you poor. I do have a car but it's older than dirt and I hope it lasts until I turn into dirt.
With regard to living in dense housing. My mind says this is the right thing to do but in practice has just driven me nuts in the past. Living this way puts me face to face with what drives me crazy about people. Most are lazy and inconsiderate. Apartments and condos with interior halls for example. Often people put their trash in the hall thinking they'll dump it tomorrow. I don't want to walk past that. Then there are those where you take your stuff to the community dumpster and then there's garbage every where because it gets full or people are too lazy to put it in properly. Most every community is okay to have dogs. I like dogs but I don't like their poop and them jumping on me. This seems to always happen. People don't pick up after them or control them. People are loud. They talk too loud and I hear them through the walls or they play music and watch TV too loud. I have kids. Sometimes they're too loud and then I feel uncomfortable or I get dirty looks for them being loud.
What I ended up doing was buying a house that cost way too much but I'm walking distance to my kids school, grocery store, places I like to eat etc. I don't think there is a perfect solution. I think we can all try to consume less, drive less etc. I love your content because it causes us or lest the open minded ones to challenge their norms and give things a second thought.
Mr Money Mustache is just such a good channel name
Appreciate you again highlighting the great American establishment of the Cheesecake Factory. Maybe a future video on the top ten most urbanist/transit accessible Cheesecake Factory locations in the US? :P
This poor FIRE people have the retire goal because they aren't going to pick a job they enjoy doing.
I give up. "Having [...] car is just a wasteful extravagance." This is such a maddening take. It only works if you have an extremely narrow view of what jobs and other lifestyle choices are acceptable to you. Where some of us are actively looking for ways to reduce our VMT (in a pseudo-city that is extraordinarily hostile to anything other than driving), we're constantly subjected to this arrogant nonsense. This makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.
ehhh, if you just like renting, then cool, but erasing the value of home equity b/c of having to do occasional maintence is a bit of a stretch. Housing is almost always going to be your largest expense. You can either re-capture some of that money spent, or not.
This is so timely!
Lmao the patron "City Nerd is A.I> He's not real! RUN RUUUUUN"
This video and channel are F.I.R.E.
I haven't really heard about FIRE but interestingly enough i arrived at some of the same thoughts when i learned about Max Weber's concept of the protestant work ethic in uni. To oversimplify it, Weber wrote about how Protestantism brought a change in philosophy that enabled the rise of capitalism. Basically it used to be that people only worked until they had enough to meet their needs and then stopped. If they were able to make more then they would just work less. With the rise of protestantism, hard work started to be seen as a virtue in itself and people started to aim to make an excess that could be put away or reinvested. Reading about it made it really sink in that the capitalist rat race hasn't always been a thing and it's possible to disengage from it. FIRE has some differences since it does involve saving money but at it's core it's the same thing: work as much as you need to meet your needs and then stop.
(Also i should add that it's been a while since i read it and maybe i didn't represent Weber's theory well. If you're interested in it you should look into it yourself.)
I’m curious to find out how many people are living like this with children
For real, my goal now is to pay off my current debt, then have the ability to be financially free so I began trying new cities without a car
You can live just about anywhere and have financial freedom. The whole key is to live on less than what you make.
I love personal finace and urbanism! This video is perfect
There is YARD WORK and then there is PRISON YARD WORK.
Some people actually "feel" empathy towards Nature and Life.
For this group, living off grid in an abandoned 3rd World country, or even a suppressed 2nd World Eastern European country offers even more personal freedom and individual satisfaction in part for the semi isolation it entails.
Maybe it’s specific to my area’s housing market, but my mortgage payment is 40% less than what a house on my street rents for, and half what a 3br apartment rents for. So the opportunity cost in my calculus is a little bit different. Something to think about.
NYC was a very expensive place to live, but I had opportunities there I would not have had anywhere else.
Psyched to see two of my nerdy favorite topics discussed by you. Indeed, it's life changing when you look at things this way. You sound to me at a Coast FI: you reached a level where your invested assets will continue on without you adding , to a normal traditional age retirement, and in the meantime you just have to cover your expenses, doing something you actually enjoy a lot more, and living a very happy life now. Isn't that FI? FI>FIRE. I'm persuing that path myself.
I'm surprised there isn't more crossover between urbanist TH-cam and the FIRE movement. I definitely came to the former by way of the latter, and I think both movements speak to people who appreciate efficiency. I came across the FIRE movement and Mr. Money Mustache in early 2018, and my spreadsheet projects I'm now approximately 5 years away from hitting my FIRE number, even in NYC, frequently rated one of the most expensive places to live.
A prerequisite to FIRE is also to be high income. The philosophy is nice, but its difficult to be proselytized to by people who spend more in a year than you make.
@@SomeDudeQC While the FIRE community got saturated with high earners over the last decade, initially it had far more people who earned around average income and just lived very frugal lifestyles to achieve high savings rates. FIRE is obviously inaccessible to a large fraction of the population, but its also not a strictly top 10% thing.
@@SomeDudeQC It's not a prerequisite; it just makes it a lot easier. One of the best things about MMM is that his blog has 1001 ways to spend less money.
@@aozora7 A few things can help normal people achieve at least the FI part outside of high income. One is starting early. Another is the incredible bull run the market has been on in the last fifteen years.
For FIRE to be accessible to normal incomes, it needs to have rising stock prices which requires growth which requires most people stay on the hamster wheel of consumption.
@@gamelord12 I make average money and spend very little. We moved to a more affordable city and chose to live in the cheaper, more central, but more run down area. We have an old beater but mostly bike, walk and bus. We budget every cent, clip coupons and buy very little. I can save about 1k a month. At a 4% real rate of return, I can hopefully expect to retire with 600k at 65.
When you are married and have kids you have to ecomomize Cycling and walking is a lot cheaper and healthier than public transportation or using a car , allowing you to enjoy life more after the kids hopefully move out.
Idea: Top 10 most urbanist Cheesecake Factories
We definitely need a replacement for “retirement”. Many people would benefit from mid-life/-career sabbaticals that could be achieved with the same mindset, even if working on passion projects after time-for-income years.
I live in a nice walkable town in Germany and work remotely. The time it frees up has improved my life enormously. The cost savings are also quite extreme. The work life balance you get from car free living where you can walk anywhere you need to go and where work is very close or no distance at all is great.
Some Canadians spend over 3 hours a day driving to work and back. Traffic is getting worse. They could take the train but they would still have to pay for a car. The design is for big stores like Walmart or Costco located far away with poor public transportation.
Some people are basically forced to drive to get around when they are not going to work.
@@Browne7100 Yeah I know. It is one of the reasons I moved somewhere that I would not have to do that. That kind of life is just not for me.
A home is not an investment it does not produce income like a business