Firefighters tied up on EMS runs? Sound like any small dept including mine. We operate on shitluck that everything will just “workout”. I love this video because it highlights the type of department most of us work out and why the training needs to cater towards that. I mean I just got off shift driving a ladder with my captain because we don’t have enough guys to have someone backseat, but we had three on our ambulance.
Interesting to watch. This is wildly different from what we do here in Germany. Your average HLF engine arrives with an 8+1 crew config: Truckie (operates all the machinery on the engine and secures the site) Group lead Runner 2 man attack team, ready to go with SCBA on 2 hose team 2 water supply team. The hose team can later don SCBAs they pull from a compartment on the side of the truck. Pull out the tray, unlock and fold down the carriers, remove tiedowns and you can slip right in and go. They can either join the attack or stay behind as a safety standby in case the other team runs into trouble and needs rescuing. Depending on the fire you can choose between the quick attack line on a reel which is attached to the water tank and ready to be charged or set up a regular line, feed it from the tank and meanwhile establish a water supply from a hydrant. Due to shortages, though, regular engines also might get pulled into a first responder role for a medical case. Which always is cause for great surprise (and sometimes embarrassment) if someone has called an ambulance and suddenly there us a huge truck out there with a bunch of firefighters on board. But one single FF being first due and starting to work…almost unthinkable here. Hell, if a call is projected to last longer than 30 minutes, the VFD is put on standby and starts manning their fire stations to ensure coverage.
Wausau uses at least 4 or 5 mutual aide departments. your city fathers know that fact. They will continue drag their feet on expanding your department I have made many first engine out solo , hoping for additional responders Mutual aid is a long time coming. Last structure fire we had 5 engines show up with 6 fire fighters over two hours.
All ive heard from wausau is all the fire departments being closed and merged because of budget cuts. Even volunteers walking off the job. And the city is expanding! How can there be less firefighters if shops are merging? Iam from Wis Rapids. We have multiple agencies competing for area. Wausau is stretching the stations too far apart. More fully staffed garages are need. How about training all these refugees Wausau was given. They can do thier part.
There’s a pretty simple solution to all of this, we don’t expect paramedics to be firefighters, so why are we expecting firefighters to also be paramedics? Cities need to employ these people as one or the other, it’s not that they don’t have enough bodies, it’s that they don’t have the right bodies doing the right job at the right time. Delineate the roles, if you’re a firefighter, you’re just a firefighter, if you’re a paramedic, then you’re just a paramedic. I’ve never understood why we have an ambulance service crewed by paramedics, and a fire truck crewed with paramedic/ff’s both covering the same areas.
I agree. I was a FF for one department and a medic for a seperate ambulance company. When working as a medic, we rolled out of a fire station. So when there was a medical call, and I was on the Ambulance, i went and the FFs stayed in the station. On a TC, we all went. On a fire, the engine rolled out and we stayed behind to handle medical aids. Simple. Seperate the two. Now, i get the thinking back in the day. All to often, as a FF, we needed to call for a medic when we pulled up. So they decided to just make all FFs medics. But I think they went too far. That's why we are starting to see ambulances being staffed with medics again. Slowly but surely.
All too commonly, it's that cities don't want to pay the money required to have full staffing. They can find money for ever feelgood pet project, but they can never seem to find money for enough firefighters, EMTs, medics, or cops to get the job done properly.
@@ronradmer3573 in Holland every firefighter has first aid training (just in case). But they never work on ambulances. Fire Service and Ambulance Service are two seperate organisations but their and Police actions are coordinated by a Central Command and Control Centre.
Most EMS services are through the fire department anymore. I think it should separate, if the county wants to post an ambulance company at the fire house that's cool, but stop making FF the ambulance crew.
If they have the staffing for those ambulances then its understandable, but in a lot of places they expect crews to jump between the engine and ambulance (like what is indicated in this video). If the ambulance goes out it leaves the engine with a reduced crew, sometimes only a driver. That's totally unacceptable. If the fire department doesn't run ambulance then they only need to be BLS first responder. Non-transporting ALS is a waste of money and resources.
As a former FF in Los Angeles, I think areas like this need to recruit VFF (in select neighborhoods) to be trained in basic hose handling just for exterior structure protection. Basic FF gear, no SCBA. Just lay a 2in or 2-1/2 line, sit on it and get water on the exposed side. Then let arriving FFs do the attack. I know lots of guys that would love to be on call with gear just to sit on a line and spray water. train them to bleed/flush a hydrant in advance, pull a supply hose to snatch a hydrant and charge the line when the engineer is ready. Saves so much time right there.
Lack of funding, so they don't have enough supplies, but needed to be in there. Or air bottles don't last long enough to be on air the entire time so they conserve air to use it when they are in worse areas.
Would someone who's a firefighter from a different state have to go through another course to meet that state recommended requirements? Though they are Certified
It is getting better for training acceptance as third party certifications are growing in acceptance. So there is a good possibility that changing locations will not require going through training again. But there still exists the potential where not only would a ff from a different state have to go through training again ..but in quite a few places, a ff from a different city in the same state may have to go through the training again. There are valid reasons such as learning the new departments equipment and procedures. But unfortunately, there are invalid reasons such as the new department has just always required any new person to go through ff training again, regardless of experience.
More training and understanding firebehaivor is what they need. There are many departments who would handle this situation in a better way with same number of ff We need to look more at deprtmants in Europé. They are more effective on scene and very high trained in firebehaivor. In US we do not change and development our tactics or work on scene. We do what we always have done.......
You just watched a video of someone stretch and operate a 2 1/2 by themselves, and your solution is learning to read smoke better? Every European video I’ve seen, they operate exterior. Knocking down the fire from outside helps firefighters. Changing 1800° to 800° doesn’t help the person who is 10 ft from the door. It’s called the fire service, a service based industry, and people like you are trying to change that. Is there somethings that they could have done better? Sure, there are things the FDNY can do better. The brothers did what had to be done with what they had.
I do realise that comparing the USA with The Netherlands is comparing apples with pears since in the USA every state/city can have different laws and regulations etc. In The Netherlands the Ministery of the Interior and the Ministery of Health are responsible for the laws and regulations for the Emergency Services. The Country has 25 Safety Regions, each with a Central Command Centre coordinating Fire Service, Police and Ambulance Service. Funding comes from different sources, but the Regional Fire Service is funded by the Cities/Towns in the Region. The Fire Service in The Netherlands is for 90% staffed by part time personell who need to meet the same requirements as the full time staff. Some stations may have just one engine. Other stations have specialised equipment to deploy anywhere within the region. When there's an alarm, the Command Centre has a table showing which post can get to the scene the fastest (by law, report ready to roll after 5 minutes and on scene within 15 minutes). Ready to roll means a fully staffed engine. If not, the next nearest station gets the alarm. From there on the Command Centre based on the report from the first Engine Commander on scene coordinates the deployment of other stations or specialised units.
That's not a good practice and this video just shows how lucky they where including the residents of both homes this could have been a different outcome and the people who make the big decisions need to finance the extra crews needed to safely staff engines. Keep safe.
Staffing is going to become harder and harder and damn near impossible before we know it. We have an entitled generation coming up that doesn't want to do anything unless it's amusing to them and an older generation that's rapidly depleting EMS resources constantly. Basically the workload is increasing while the desire to do the job has plunged. The biggest movement in our society today is towards socialism, which is the economic version of "someone else will do it" and that mindset is present in all other aspects of life too.
Most of all this comments are people that think they know something about the fire service that was not gas it was magnesium like a said no nothing say nothing if Europe is so good take a hike USA firefighters kick ass like this guys where them houses are still standing that's something to be said for them guys.
Mike I have work in the department since 1994. I had the opurtunity to go to Europé and work in a fire service for two years. Of course there are many different between US and Europé. What suprise me most was that they are very high trained. They do all spectra. Ex. Firebehaivor, tactics, equipment, watersupply, ventilation, by tha law they need to do four trainings each year under instructor just to be allow to work as ff. They do 150 hours of training each year as a minimum. The other thing is that we in US are many ff on scene. In Europé is standard set up in a station 5 ff. One incident commander and for ff. In a ordinary flatfire it is one station. Residence like this in the movie it should be two stations. Ten firefighters and two-three trucks.
Them guys might have been on the front page of the local paper along with the residents of the home, if it was a different story... but this time they where lucky.
All that talk from a wanna be ski instructor. If you're so "knowledgable" maybe you could join their department and enlighton them. You'd probably piss your bunkers if you had to go inside. LZFD retired.
You don't need More firefighters; you need some Competent firefighters. More accurately, you need better leaders and trainers. The USA fire disservice is a worldwide joke. No, blame it on a lack of manpower and the budget. How did I know that this fire fight would be just as bad as all the rest? 1. You deck gun that garage within the first 40 seconds of arrival using tank water. 2. You do NOT use a straight stream at close range because it puts a massive amount of water on a very small area. Notice the flames continuing. Those flames and a 5 gallon can of gasoline don't mix well. 3. 2.5" line for one person on a garage? Shows he didn't know the right tool for the job and the amount of help. Poor planning. 4. That was a three-firefighter fight. Don't make excuses. One at the hydrant, the engineer at the pump and one firefighter on the deck gun and then a booster line to mop- up. The engineer hooks up the supply line. The hydrant FFer pulls a 1-3/4" line with the help of the engineer. Ignorance and incompetence will not be eliminated with more ignorant firefighters. All you have to do is follow UL and ISFSI to the letter and you will be 95% correct and 90% better then you are now.
I have seen your poisonous commentary before. What we need is to get rid of a firefighter culture of eating their own. You wonder why the comments sections are frequently turned off? Well you have provided many self explanatory examples of why that is so. Nobody appointed you as the expert (except of course...you did). Do us all a favor and ply your vitriol elsewhere.
Short staffed or not, That was a good stop. Hard working guys.
Firefighters tied up on EMS runs? Sound like any small dept including mine. We operate on shitluck that everything will just “workout”. I love this video because it highlights the type of department most of us work out and why the training needs to cater towards that. I mean I just got off shift driving a ladder with my captain because we don’t have enough guys to have someone backseat, but we had three on our ambulance.
Interesting to watch. This is wildly different from what we do here in Germany. Your average HLF engine arrives with an 8+1 crew config:
Truckie (operates all the machinery on the engine and secures the site)
Group lead
Runner
2 man attack team, ready to go with SCBA on
2 hose team
2 water supply team.
The hose team can later don SCBAs they pull from a compartment on the side of the truck. Pull out the tray, unlock and fold down the carriers, remove tiedowns and you can slip right in and go. They can either join the attack or stay behind as a safety standby in case the other team runs into trouble and needs rescuing.
Depending on the fire you can choose between the quick attack line on a reel which is attached to the water tank and ready to be charged or set up a regular line, feed it from the tank and meanwhile establish a water supply from a hydrant.
Due to shortages, though, regular engines also might get pulled into a first responder role for a medical case. Which always is cause for great surprise (and sometimes embarrassment) if someone has called an ambulance and suddenly there us a huge truck out there with a bunch of firefighters on board. But one single FF being first due and starting to work…almost unthinkable here. Hell, if a call is projected to last longer than 30 minutes, the VFD is put on standby and starts manning their fire stations to ensure coverage.
Wausau uses at least 4 or 5 mutual aide departments. your city fathers know that fact. They will continue drag their feet on expanding your department
I have made many first engine out solo , hoping for additional responders
Mutual aid is a long time coming. Last structure fire we had 5 engines show up with 6 fire fighters over two hours.
A normal turnout for us guys in Hatley is 3 members responding.
Insufficient staff is not only dangerous but doesn't allow for proper suppression techniques.
All ive heard from wausau is all the fire departments being closed and merged because of budget cuts. Even volunteers walking off the job. And the city is expanding! How can there be less firefighters if shops are merging? Iam from Wis Rapids. We have multiple agencies competing for area. Wausau is stretching the stations too far apart. More fully staffed garages are need. How about training all these refugees Wausau was given. They can do thier part.
Keep up the good fight!!
God bless the brother chugging up that hill on full TOG. LOL. I got winded watching him
There’s a pretty simple solution to all of this, we don’t expect paramedics to be firefighters, so why are we expecting firefighters to also be paramedics? Cities need to employ these people as one or the other, it’s not that they don’t have enough bodies, it’s that they don’t have the right bodies doing the right job at the right time. Delineate the roles, if you’re a firefighter, you’re just a firefighter, if you’re a paramedic, then you’re just a paramedic. I’ve never understood why we have an ambulance service crewed by paramedics, and a fire truck crewed with paramedic/ff’s both covering the same areas.
I agree. I was a FF for one department and a medic for a seperate ambulance company. When working as a medic, we rolled out of a fire station. So when there was a medical call, and I was on the Ambulance, i went and the FFs stayed in the station. On a TC, we all went. On a fire, the engine rolled out and we stayed behind to handle medical aids. Simple. Seperate the two. Now, i get the thinking back in the day. All to often, as a FF, we needed to call for a medic when we pulled up. So they decided to just make all FFs medics. But I think they went too far. That's why we are starting to see ambulances being staffed with medics again. Slowly but surely.
All too commonly, it's that cities don't want to pay the money required to have full staffing. They can find money for ever feelgood pet project, but they can never seem to find money for enough firefighters, EMTs, medics, or cops to get the job done properly.
@@ronradmer3573 in Holland every firefighter has first aid training (just in case). But they never work on ambulances. Fire Service and Ambulance Service are two seperate organisations but their and Police actions are coordinated by a Central Command and Control Centre.
Most EMS services are through the fire department anymore. I think it should separate, if the county wants to post an ambulance company at the fire house that's cool, but stop making FF the ambulance crew.
If they have the staffing for those ambulances then its understandable, but in a lot of places they expect crews to jump between the engine and ambulance (like what is indicated in this video). If the ambulance goes out it leaves the engine with a reduced crew, sometimes only a driver. That's totally unacceptable. If the fire department doesn't run ambulance then they only need to be BLS first responder. Non-transporting ALS is a waste of money and resources.
As a former FF in Los Angeles, I think areas like this need to recruit VFF (in select neighborhoods) to be trained in basic hose handling just for exterior structure protection. Basic FF gear, no SCBA. Just lay a 2in or 2-1/2 line, sit on it and get water on the exposed side. Then let arriving FFs do the attack. I know lots of guys that would love to be on call with gear just to sit on a line and spray water. train them to bleed/flush a hydrant in advance, pull a supply hose to snatch a hydrant and charge the line when the engineer is ready. Saves so much time right there.
Why recruit from selective community's and not all community's in which a department serves
Why are there fireman walking in smoke without protection. Tired of hearing fireman die of cancer but don’t take the precautions.
Lack of funding, so they don't have enough supplies, but needed to be in there. Or air bottles don't last long enough to be on air the entire time so they conserve air to use it when they are in worse areas.
Would someone who's a firefighter from a different state have to go through another course to meet that state recommended requirements? Though they are Certified
It is getting better for training acceptance as third party certifications are growing in acceptance. So there is a good possibility that changing locations will not require going through training again.
But there still exists the potential where not only would a ff from a different state have to go through training again ..but in quite a few places, a ff from a different city in the same state may have to go through the training again.
There are valid reasons such as learning the new departments equipment and procedures. But unfortunately, there are invalid reasons such as the new department has just always required any new person to go through ff training again, regardless of experience.
More training and understanding firebehaivor is what they need. There are many departments who would handle this situation in a better way with same number of ff
We need to look more at deprtmants in Europé. They are more effective on scene and very high trained in firebehaivor. In US we do not change and development our tactics or work on scene. We do what we always have done.......
You just watched a video of someone stretch and operate a 2 1/2 by themselves, and your solution is learning to read smoke better? Every European video I’ve seen, they operate exterior. Knocking down the fire from outside helps firefighters. Changing 1800° to 800° doesn’t help the person who is 10 ft from the door. It’s called the fire service, a service based industry, and people like you are trying to change that. Is there somethings that they could have done better? Sure, there are things the FDNY can do better. The brothers did what had to be done with what they had.
Yeah the Fdny staff the rigs better.
I do realise that comparing the USA with The Netherlands is comparing apples with pears since in the USA every state/city can have different laws and regulations etc.
In The Netherlands the Ministery of the Interior and the Ministery of Health are responsible for the laws and regulations for the Emergency Services.
The Country has 25 Safety Regions, each with a Central Command Centre coordinating Fire Service, Police and Ambulance Service. Funding comes from different sources, but the Regional Fire Service is funded by the Cities/Towns in the Region.
The Fire Service in The Netherlands is for 90% staffed by part time personell who need to meet the same requirements as the full time staff.
Some stations may have just one engine. Other stations have specialised equipment to deploy anywhere within the region.
When there's an alarm, the Command Centre has a table showing which post can get to the scene the fastest (by law, report ready to roll after 5 minutes and on scene within 15 minutes).
Ready to roll means a fully staffed engine. If not, the next nearest station gets the alarm.
From there on the Command Centre based on the report from the first Engine Commander on scene coordinates the deployment of other stations or specialised units.
This seems to becoming a commonality all over the country
That's not a good practice and this video just shows how lucky they where including the residents of both homes this could have been a different outcome and the people who make the big decisions need to finance the extra crews needed to safely staff engines. Keep safe.
Staffing is going to become harder and harder and damn near impossible before we know it. We have an entitled generation coming up that doesn't want to do anything unless it's amusing to them and an older generation that's rapidly depleting EMS resources constantly. Basically the workload is increasing while the desire to do the job has plunged. The biggest movement in our society today is towards socialism, which is the economic version of "someone else will do it" and that mindset is present in all other aspects of life too.
You could have both paid and volunteer firefighters
My UCL is a fire fighter
Private ambulance solves this problem
Most of all this comments are people that think they know something about the fire service that was not gas it was magnesium like a said no nothing say nothing if Europe is so good take a hike USA firefighters kick ass like this guys where them houses are still standing that's something to be said for them guys.
Mike
I have work in the department since 1994. I had the opurtunity to go to Europé and work in a fire service for two years.
Of course there are many different between US and Europé.
What suprise me most was that they are very high trained. They do all spectra.
Ex. Firebehaivor, tactics, equipment, watersupply, ventilation, by tha law they need to do four trainings each year under instructor just to be allow to work as ff. They do 150 hours of training each year as a minimum.
The other thing is that we in US are many ff on scene. In Europé is standard set up in a station 5 ff.
One incident commander and for ff.
In a ordinary flatfire it is one station.
Residence like this in the movie it should be two stations. Ten firefighters and two-three trucks.
Mike Gallaty any chance you can try that again using some punctuation and grammar? Your comment is almost impossible to decipher.
@@Jimmythefish577 not a chance Wilson nice try
Them guys might have been on the front page of the local paper along with the residents of the home, if it was a different story... but this time they where lucky.
This is a training issue and go to use a private ambulance
All that talk from a wanna be ski instructor. If you're so "knowledgable" maybe you could join their department and enlighton them. You'd probably piss your bunkers if you had to go inside. LZFD retired.
My town fired part time guys who went in so stfu
Get part time ff we can't afford pension for guy that work till 50 years old and live to 90
You don't need More firefighters; you need some Competent firefighters. More accurately, you need better leaders and trainers. The USA fire disservice is a worldwide joke. No, blame it on a lack of manpower and the budget. How did I know that this fire fight would be just as bad as all the rest?
1. You deck gun that garage within the first 40 seconds of arrival using tank water.
2. You do NOT use a straight stream at close range because it puts a massive amount of water on a very small area. Notice the flames continuing. Those flames and a 5 gallon can of gasoline don't mix well.
3. 2.5" line for one person on a garage? Shows he didn't know the right tool for the job and the amount of help. Poor planning.
4. That was a three-firefighter fight. Don't make excuses. One at the hydrant, the engineer at the pump and one firefighter on the deck gun and then a booster line to mop- up. The engineer hooks up the supply line. The hydrant FFer pulls a 1-3/4" line with the help of the engineer.
Ignorance and incompetence will not be eliminated with more ignorant firefighters. All you have to do is follow UL and ISFSI to the letter and you will be 95% correct and 90% better then you are now.
I have seen your poisonous commentary before. What we need is to get rid of a firefighter culture of eating their own. You wonder why the comments sections are frequently turned off? Well you have provided many self explanatory examples of why that is so. Nobody appointed you as the expert (except of course...you did). Do us all a favor and ply your vitriol elsewhere.
@@RLTtizME Well said
any competent firefighter would know that's a magnesium engine block burning. you're obviously not one.
@@RLTtizME No firefighting tactics from you again. Ignorance is a sad thing R.
You are the one that is ignorant.