This makes things reallly open up in my understanding...Calvinism and Lordship Salvation caused me to doubt everything ...im so glad I now understand the Grace of Almighty God!
Can you imagine what Christ must think when 5 point Calvinist/Lordship teachers boldly proclaim that Jesus only died for the sins of the elect? It must break His heart! He wants everyone saved, and made it possible if they only will believe it. On the Cross Jesus "TOOK AWAY the sin of the WORLD!" John 1:29. Now when we witness to people, we can look them straight in the eye and say "Jesus loves you and He died for YOU to pay the death penalty you deserve for your sin." Reformed Calvinists can't say that to ANYONE. They have no certainty that they or anyone else for that matter is elect! The truth Zane presents in this message is a powerful motivation for me to get out and tell everyone who will listen, such wonderful news!
Thank you and pray for me that I will be more bold and witnessing to the Lost and more disciplined to walk in the spirit... thank you and praise God who paid it all
@@dreiher2 , exactly. I have recognized the same, miserable thing. I have been mired in Calvinism for years. I bought into it because I was convinced, despondent, though it made me, that it was true. These wonderful, free grace teachings are setting me free. Thank you.
Love his teachings, can anyone expound on the book of life part? When and how does a believer get their name written into the book? The reason I had learned for why unbelievers go to Hell is for rejecting God, and God respects their desires of not wanting him. He doesn't force himself on anybody
@Gary's Guitar Tips Believing in Jesus isn't all that is required to be saved. The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience. Jesus’ repeated warnings to the religious hypocrites of His day as proof that simply agreeing to spiritual facts does not save a person. There must be a heart change. Jesus emphasized the high cost of discipleship: “Whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27), and “Those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples” (verse 33). In the same passage, Jesus speaks of counting the cost; elsewhere, He stresses total commitment: “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62). In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says that eternal life is a narrow path found by “only a few” (Matthew 7:14); in contrast, some seek to broaden the path so that anyone who has a profession of faith can enter. Jesus says that “every good tree bears good fruit” (verse 17); in contrast, some say that a tree can still be good and bear nothing but bad fruit. Jesus says that many who say “Lord, Lord” will not enter the kingdom (verses 21-23); in contrast, some teach that saying “Lord, Lord” is good enough. Paul and James taught that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then they will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life 2 Corinthians 5:17 Galatians 5:22-23 James 2:14-26
Propitiation in 1 John 2:2 is very clear. The sins of mankind have been propitiated by Christ on the cross. The sins of the human race have been judged but not forgiven. When a person receives Christ their sins are forgiven. When a person rejects Christ even though their sins were judged their sins remain unforgiven. Even though their sins are unforgiven that is not the basis of their condemnation. Rejection of Christ is. Rejection of Christ means you must stand on your own human good in the presence of God. Human good can never propitiate God otherwise there would be no need for the cross. Excellent video!
Further, how can revelation 20:12 be true if Hodges is right here when it says the books were opened and they were judged according to their works (great white throne)? How can the unsaved be judged by their sins if they were paid for? They aren't paid for unless you accept the payment.
@@allenbrininstool7558 This is the great white throne judgement. If they are being judged by their works, that includes bad works, which are also called "sins".
@@faith_alone None of their works 'good' or 'bad' - will justify them before a holy God "wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him..." (Rom 3:20 YLT) “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Rom 4:3 One must believe to be saved - it's always been that way. One thing the speaker did not bring up is that there is an eternal sin - and no one quickened (Eph 2:1 kjv) and made alive will be condemned for it. John 3:18 kjv He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Back in the 80's, I use to take the same view as Hodges. I called it unlimited remissionism. one thing that started to concern me was nobody else held the view, except my pastor. Sometime after I came across Hodges' "Gospel Under Siege" and Wilkin came to my church to speak on assurance, I asked him about this view. He didn't agree with it but said someone as DTS held it. But years later, I see Wilkin holds this view. Hodges seems to see all references in Scripture to the remission of sins as fellowship-forgiveness. I find that view difficult. I came to the conclusion that Christ's death was an unlimited propitiation for sin, but remission of of sin (release from penalty) is through faith. If one is released from the penalty, then they are justified and born again. Otherwise, what benefit is it to be released from the penalty of sin if you are still experiencing what sin resulted in, which is separation from God? Whatever one may believe about propitiation and remission, one still has to believe in Christ to be saved.
Zane and I and other GES folks believe there are 2 senses of forgiveness. One is the one that happens the second we are born again. The second is what happens every time a born again person confesses sin. It is important to realize that we are talking about no sin being taken away for OT believers until Christ died, and all sin being taken away now. OT saints were never REALLY forgiven. The sin was only covered (atoned) for until Christ came and paid for it. Also, very important, is the fact that it is technically incorrect to tell an unsaved person that they need to believe in Jesus for forgiveness of sin for all time. The Bible, on the contrary, teaches that the moment they sin after being born again, they no longer have forgiveness of sin until they confess that sin. Early in the book of Acts, we see a time period between when Paul was born again, and the time he was Baptised and received forgiveness of sins. Now, there is no longer a time period between the two. We get them simultaneously. The book of Acts is the exception to what happens today.
The Romans road ends in a Cul de Sac. I no longer use it mainly for this reason. Our problem is not trying to get God to forgive our Sin. That problem has been fully dealt with. Our problem is that we are dead. If a person is killed by a bullet, and you remove the bullet, they still have a problem. Right?
I understand there is a difference between being released from eternal consequences of sin and temporal release, being fellowship forgiveness. I know what you are saying about Paul's experience. An interesting analogy with one killed with a bullet. I guess it depends on what one wants to include with propitiation or with Justification and regeneration. Even though we believe Christ's death was a propitiation for all sin for all people, one is not saved until they believe in Christ for it (salvation). For me, the question is whether remission of sins (not fellowship forgiveness) is the immediate result of propitiation or received by faith, in which one is justified and born again. It just seems that if one is released from consequences of sin, they should be justified and regenerated--since the consequences of sin is seperation from God and death. If Peter was sent to tell Cornelius words by which he would be saved (Acts 11), and he tells him that all the prophets witness that whoever believes in Christ receives remission of sins (Acts 10), then it seems remission of sins is salvation.
I guess what I'm saying, is that remission is not just removing the bullet, but the consequences of the bullet. For what is the point of removing a bullet from a dead person? Of course, analogys are often imperfect things.
The whole point is that while you are giving the saving message to a lost person in front of you, you can tell them that Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for the sin of everyone for all time, because He really did. The "Bullet" has been dealt with -- taken out. However, they are still DEAD. Their sin does not condemn them to hell, just like their good works won't qualify them for heaven. They just need to believe in Jesus for everlasting life. He took the death penalty we all deserved. I don't know about you, but this is what I spend 99% of my time doing in evangelism. Even people in Bible Believing churches believe the lie that your works have to continue until you die, or else your faith was temporary, not able to get you everlasting life at the final judgment, and if you don't persevere until death in faith and good works, you are not really born again. I spend a lot of my time evangelizing evangelicals. They think faith, that is, being persuaded in your mind of the truth of Christ's promise is not enough. They say "faith without works is dead," the same way that Catholics, and Jehovah's witnesses claim. James is not saying faith without works is NONFAITH, he is saying that it does no earthly good. It is useless to save people from the temporal salvation (not salvation from hell to heaven) being spoken of so much in James and other places in the Bible. They think you must have works to prove you are really born again.Jesus never taught that. I am pretty sure we agree on that point.
This guy is so wrong to say that Christ paid for the sins of every single person when in John 17 Jesus wouldn't even pray for the world he said he does not pray for the world but only for those given to him by the father. if He wouldn't even pray for them, then how's he going to die for them? Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world in the sense of every elect person in the whole world. You have to consider everything that scripture says not just a few verses out of context.
I look at it as God is the one being propitiated by the cross, we are reconciled by the cross. God could not look upon man because of sin but still had a purpose for him so Christ propitiated God by taking His wrath and thus allowing fellowship.
Everyone is dead in their sins even after he died on the cross, as 1 Corinthians 15:17, it is his work after his resurrection that counts. He was raised for our justification (a process of sanctification by the Holy Spirit, and obedience unto death), as Romans 4:25, agreed with you 1 Peter 1:2. Our works cannot save us, as Christ's grace is required, and that depends on our works.
If all mankind's Sins are taken away (John 1:29), and God is no longer counting sins against mankind (1 Cor. 5:19), and if Christ is the propitiation for all maknkind's sins for believers in the same way as unbelievers (1 John 2:2), then how can our sins be the reason we are spiritually dead (i.e. separated from God)? Right before Jesus died on the cross, he stated, "It is finished." His death and resurrection were necessary to show that He was the Christ. The payment for sin was already made. You seemed to have ignored Rom. 4:5. That says that only those who refuse to work (both before and after the moment of believing His saving promise) can be born again. Works have absolutely nothing to do with salvation or assurance of being born again. There are several different meanings of the word "Saved" or "Salvation" in the Bible, depending upon the context. There is justification salvation, which is a one point in time being born again. Then there is Sanctification salvation, which may or may not happen because it is based not upon God, but upon us growing in the Lord. Some born again people have no fruit or outward evidence, so in that sense they are not "Saved" in the sense of Sanctification salvation. However, their behavior has no bearing whatsoever on whether they are born again or not. That kind of looking at works to either not lose everlasting life, or to try and prove to yourself and others that you have it, is called Lordship Salvation, and that message can save nobody because whoever believes that cannot have 100% Assurance of Salvation (Once Saved Always Saved."
dreiher2 many thanks for your reply, please read my argument against it. John 1:29, "which taketh away the sin of the world", is only a headline not doctrine. 2 Corinthians 5:19 is talk about reconciliation, not doctrine. 1 John 2:2 "he is the propitiation for our sins", again a headline concealing a combination of effects prophecies in OT, split then by redemption on the cross, purchasing the church of God and starting the NT, and forgiveness or atonement when the faithful die. I say we are justified by the grace of God, but not by God alone. Scripture tells to seek for justification by the grace of Christ. This is double justification, a two-fold declaration, by God for faith in Christ, and in the end by Christ for the life of faith of trust and obedience. Jesus' death and resurrection show more than his Christship. We are baptised into both his death and resurrection. As Romans 4:25 Jesus "was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification". The pivotal verse of Christianity, as after the cross we are still dead in our sins. Romans 4:5 showed that Abraham's faith was counted by God for righteousness, so our faith in Christ is counted by God for righteousness. However as with Abraham in 4:12 we must "also walk in the steps of faith", and from that faith "perform" as 4:21. God justifies for faith in Christ, which is being born again or raised with Christ, and faith is to trust and obey. Righteous works, as opposed to ceremonial works, have nothing to do with being born again, but are essential to salvation. We are saved by grace, by God's free gift for faith in Christ as Ephesians 2:8, and by the grace of Christ for our righteous works as Ephesians 2:10 and Titus 3:7. You mention sanctification salvation, that is what we are born again into, as 1 Peter 1:2. Being born again is not Salvation but the way to it. My study shows eternal security requires works, easily understood if not achieved, as 2 Peter 1:1-11. That is why we have to mortifying the deeds of the flesh, not just believe Jesus died to send the ungodly to heaven, but to send those that prove they are godly.
I am sorry but you make no sense whatsoever. You are not looking at the Bible but something else and are reading things into the text that are not there. Please go through the 27 lesson Hermeneutics course I am posting at th-cam.com/play/PLr_4OdbakXn5aig9BO6TukjVZyyR4WVj7.html
dreiher2 if you look at the Holy Bible KJV as I do totam scripturam, that is all of scripture, then you will rely less on grace than faith. The just shall live by faith, justified by faith in Christ, for by grace are ye saved through faith. What is grace, it is mercy for something, a free gift from God for faith, and from Christ for a godly life. Faith is the key to grace, the law of faith. Sir, the whole Reformation went astray on this point, they were so wanting to escape the RCC they misused scripture and the whole emphasis on grace for faith, instead of grace from faith has lead you and much of Christianity to error. Double justification was argued by Reformers and Augustine, as it is clearly recorded in scripture, but you override it by grace for believing that Jesus sacrificed himself so that we need do nothing, yet scripture tells us otherwise. Sir, I am sorry to say the premise of grace is taken in the wrong way, as the bargain is grace for faith, when faith (complete trust and the duty to fulfil that trust) does not exist neither does grace. As you know I have a long way to go to make you change, so be it, but the more independent students read the Holy Bible the harder you will find it to preach grace before faith. Salvation or not depends on this, and to get it wrong would be a crime against humanity. The reason I adopted totam scripturam was a failsafe way I thought up to make all scripture equal, and add together verses to find the one faith taught by the apostles. I have no conflict with Paul and James, or Paul and Jesus because I add them to each other. Look again at the possibility that justification in Romans 4:25, means the process told in 1 Peter 1:2, belief to sanctification to obedience to atonement by the grace of Jesus Christ, and you will find a structure of faith that is easy for people to understand about eternal security. A comforting passage being 2 Peter 1:1-11, as it builds a framework that matches other passages like Galatians 5:13-25, and Romans 13:8-10. Granted this is a harder 'sell' than grace alone but people want eternal security, as did Luther, and security means Christianity a faith of good works.
@@simonskinner1450 In Romans 4:4-5 the context is not the Law of Moses, but Abraham, 430 years before the Law. Paul says, "Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who DOES NOT WORK, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness." That justification brings everlasting life that cannot be forfeited. James then talks about the discipleship that should follow this. You bring confusion by mixing them together.
In other words and unbeliever can live a more lovely and caring life than the believer, but yet because the unbeliever does not have eternal life within him will go to hell
Man is justified, man is saved 𝐛𝐲 𝐟𝐚𝐢𝐭𝐡 in the one who paid (propitiated) the penalty of sin. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Those who had no faith in God's propitiatory sacrifice will be judged for the things they did rely on, their own efforts (Revelation 20:13).... Their imperfect 'works' will be found inadequate in justifying them before a perfect and Holy God.
The sad thing is that many reformed/lordship people believe in faith that works, and assurance based upon those works and have never simply believed upon Jesus. Many Lordship folks will be at the Great White Throne. They are not condemned "already" because they don't have a faith that works, but because they NEVER really had "faith" alone as you and I believe in. Some Lordship folks are born again, perhaps as children, before they get confused by people later on. Thank God for that.
Dr. David Allen did a workshop on "The extent of the atonement" based upon his massive book on the same topic. It is quite an eye-opener. th-cam.com/video/9Wr9hbyCJKA/w-d-xo.html
Having started to listen to Dr.David Allen he seems ignorant of the view of Zane.Hodges here expressed. Allen said "in regard to the application of the atonement alll orthodox Christian's MUST believe that the atonement of Christ is only applied to those who believe"..Zane Hodges case is that the atonement applys to all regardless of faith. Very different
dreiher2, Zane Hodges teaches that Propitiation is applied to all even if they don't accept it. Yet, in Rom. 3:24 Paul says, "Whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, . . . Doesn't this teach that propitiation only counts if we accept it by faith?
I think he’s saying that by definition propitiation expunges the legal ramifications of sin. In other words propitiation means the legal case against us has been pardoned because it has been paid for by Christ. And thus accepting or not accepting is irrelevant. The opening illustration is helpful: if a condemned man sentenced to death is pardoned by the state, the state will not carry out the sentence regardless of the wishes (acceptance) of the condemned man. The legal case against the condemned man no longer exists.
@Gregory Latta Luke 24:47 And REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS will be preached in His name to 👉ALL NATIONS 👈Starting in Jerusalem. Jesus said: Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. When did Peter start the church? Acts 2 is the day of pentecost. How did Peter say the Jews as well as the Gentiles are to be saved? Acts 2:37-39 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children AND FOR ALL WHO ARE FAR OFF meaning (gentiles) for all whom the Lord our God will call.” Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord. Note Peter said the same thing as Jesus We are to repent of sin for the forgiveness of sins, without forgiveness their is no Salvation. Peter again makes it understood that this includes Gentiles. Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted REPENTANCE THAT LEADS TO LIFE.” Repentance leads to eternal life. Paul too preached repentance. Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance but now COMMANDETH ALL PEOPLE EVERY WHERE TO REPENT. Paul's teaching in Acts is also for Gentiles. Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they MUST TURN TO GOD IN REPENTANCE AND HAVE FAITH in our Lord Jesus. Paul recounts his conversion with Jesus, Acts 26:18-20 To open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ 19“So then, Kingopen their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ 19“So then, King First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should REPENT AND TURN TO GOD and DEMONSTRATE THEIR REPENTANCE BY THEIR DEEDS. Paul says Repent and believe and show your repentance by your deeds or how you live. 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 Yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because YOUR SORROW LED YOU TO REPENTANCE. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 GODLY SORROW BRINGS brings 👉REPENTANCE THAT LEADS TO SALVATION 👈and leaves no regret, but WORLDLY SORROW BRINGS DEATH.
@@2Chronicles714_ Repentance simply means to turn to Jesus. Godly sorrow leads to repentance means feeling sad that you have sinned should cause you to turn to Jesus which is clearly the only way.
Why does the bible actually say he was a ransom for many it doesn't use the word all but it uses the word in many can someone explain this please acknowledge my comment
In neither Mark 10:45 nor in Matt 20:28 was Jesus talking about any subset of people in the context. Many=All unless you can prove otherwise from the context. Chapter and verse please, of descriptions of people that Jesus did not die to pay the penalty of sin for. How could anybody be regenerated by simple intellectual persuasion (belief) if He did not pay the death penalty we all deserved, and that we could not pay, only the God-Man could ever pay? We can't "pay" for our sin in hell, only Jesus could "pay" for sinbecause we are not God. Only Jesus as God could pay the penalty for sin.
This guy says that you only go to hell because you are dead, not because of your sins. But the Bible says that you only die because of sin. So this guy is just playing word games.
I think you misunderstand. See th-cam.com/video/Iz4vwgyhw3A/w-d-xo.html Why is the "Book of Life" not called "Book of forgiveness from sins?" The issue is life, not sin. Lewis Sperry Chafer said, "Because of what Jesus accomplished on the Cross, men no longer have a 'Sin' problem. They have a 'Son' problem." Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of the entire world. The issue is not for people who are not born again to try and get God to forgive them. The solution is to come to Jesus to get Everlasting Life.
@@dreiher2 It's not called the book of forgiveness of sins because in order to be living, their sins already got forgiven when they initially got saved. That is in the past. From that point on, they are simply living. They don't need forgiveness again.
You obviously didn't hear or understand what he said or the clear teaching of Scriptures! He said you don't go to hell because of or to pay for your sin/sins. But because you don't have Eternal life. The reason people don't have or never receive Eternal life is because they have never believed in Jesus for it!
If this is true, how can there be a greater damnation? How can there be different levels of punishment if everyone has had their sins remitted? Also, if there are different levels of punishment, then what you're saying is pointless because apparently it do anything. Theological navel-gazing
Rodney Rose it seems to me that God is never enough for Salvation, God of course never paid for our sins, but Jesus did. As Romans 3:25 God set forth Jesus to sanctify himself, qualify to be our high priest, and judge us by our works. God by his grace justifies those that have faith in Christ Jesus, the just shall live by faith, so a life of complete trust and obedience in Christ will earn his approval and mercy. Jesus paid for our sins when he purchased the church of God, he is the redeemer and now our Lord and judge.
@@jerrymann20 , sir, I say this with no disrespect for you as a creature made in the image of God, but you don't know your keester from a sinkhole. We all start out in that bankrupt condition. I hope you will study the messages this magnificent teacher has left us.
I think we need to make the mental separation between sin and works... this is where I’ve been stuck in understanding Christ’s work on the cross and resurrection and how someone actually here saved and what it means. Being free from their sin is part of salvation, in a sense, but isn’t complete until you have eternal life. So if I understand Hodges correctly, all men’s sins have been removed, but it isn’t enough for forgiveness of sins to send us to heaven. We need the second part: eternal life.
People are condemned because they die as an repented sinner regardless of whether they believe in Jesus. Jesus makes that clear to the religious hypocrites of His day that belief alone will not justify. Jesus's final command for us to preach to the world, Luke 24:47 And REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS will be preached in his name to all nations starting in Jerusalem.
@Gregory Latta Is not disbelief a sin? Repent means change your mind about your sinfulled life ALL SINS,INCLUDING UNBELIEF,false gods,witchcraft,self righteousness etc. Hebrews 6:1-2 So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God.2You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
I have a problem with no one you goes to hell because of their sin well there is one sin that can send you to hell and that's called the sin of unbelief so the only thing that could send you to hell is the sin it's called a sin it's called the sin of unbelief show is Hodges correct or is he a liar let's see what the Bible says the Bible says that the only sin that wasn't paid for was the sin of unbelief right because if the sin of unbelief was paid for then that would cover you to where you could then have everlasting life Jesus offers everlasting life but you have to believe or should I say trust
Where in the Bible does it say people will be cast into the lake of fire because of the sin of unbelief? Where does the Bible teach the the sin of unbelief was not paid for? Jesus took away all the sin of the world (John 1:29, 3:1-16, 1 John 2:2), not all sins except unbelief. Belief is not something we can decide to do. We are either convinced of Jesus' promise of everlasting life, on the basis of His death and resurrection, or we are not convinced. Trust normally implies something beyond intellectual persuasion or being convinced. Unbelievers can decide to be open to the evidence, or to be closed to the evidence. The actual moment of persuasion is really a passive thing, not active like "Trust" usually is.
@@dreiher2John 3-15 how do you explain that I really hope your not saying people who don't believe on the lord are saved cause that's all over the bible that's just universalism
his entire doctrine of judicial payment via universal propitiation is corrupt! Debunked right here! *[[Rom **3:25**/KJVLite]]* Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
God justifies by faith in Christ, and Christ justifies by our works. Read Revelation 21:7 & 8 and you will sin as the deciding factor. You cannot be saved by faith alone by God alone. Faith is to trust and obey.
Hi, Simon :) Rev 21:7 is about rewards. Victorious believers will be given many experiences and rewards in eternity, among which is the privilege of ruling with Christ (Rev 2:26-27; 3:21). There is no hybrid gospel that incorporates BOTH grace and works. Romans 11:6 Teaches salvation cannot be by Grace and Works. Salvation is either free-grace or works-based. If Grace depends on our cooperation then it is no longer Grace (Unmerited favour). Galatians 2:16 tell us that NO flesh will be justified by works. The scriptures tell us over and over that we are already declared righteous by his BLOOD alone (Romans 5:9; Hebrews 9:22; 2 Co 5:21). Think salvation in terms of a father’s relationship with his son. That biological relationship can never be undone. The son is always a child of his father. In the same way, once we believe in Jesus for everlasting life, we become adopted as children of God (John 1:12, Gal 4:4-7). That relationship with God can never be undone. Everlasting life is a permanent gift (Ephesians 2:8-9). :)
Justificado there is a hybrid text for both grace and works, Ephesians 2:8-10. "For by grace are ye saved through faith", and that is faith in Christ and to completely trust and obey him. The gift of grace from God is for your faith, not ceremonial works, as Abraham in Romans 4. Then in Ephesians 10 that faith in Christ is shown as we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Faith is trust and obedience. Same in Titus 3:1-7, works of righteousness (good works) though necessary as Titus 2:14, we are justified by the grace of Christ for eternal life. Even Jude 21, looking to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. God justifies the ungodly for their faith, and Jesus Christ justifies the godly for their works. Remember we are baptised (pledged) to God the Father and Jesus the Son.
Simon, Oh I see where you're coming from. Basically youre just mixing Salvation with Discipleship :l Always remember the basic principle of Bible interpretation: Unclear passages should be understood in light of clear ones and not the other way around. Lordship Salvation violates this principle in two ways: 1) It bases its understanding of the Gospel on unclear passages of Scripture; 2) It overthrows the correct interpretation of clear passages by understanding them in light of faulty interpretations of the unclear passages. For example, John 6:39 clearly teaches that you cant lose your salvation. So doesnt matter what any other verse says, it cannot contradic this simple truth John 6:39 teaches. I will show you 7 simple and basic distinctions between SALVATION and DISCIPLESHIP: 1----Christ’s invitation to salvation is, “Come unto me” (Matthew 11:28); His call to discipleship is, “Come after Me” (Matthew 16:24). 2----Salvation is about the Cross of Christ (Matthew 16:21); discipleship is about your own cross (Matthew 16:22-24). 3----At salvation, you receive a gift, eternal life (John 4:10 and Romans 6:23); in discipleship, you give a gift, your body (Romans 12:1). 4----The salvation decision (putting faith in Christ for eternal life) must be made only once (John 5:24, 6:37-40, 10:27-28); the discipleship decision (commitment to obey Christ) must be made again and again (Luke 9:23). 5----Salvation is a sure thing (Romans 8:1, 8-11, 28-30, 33-39); discipleship is always in danger of failing (Luke 14:25-35). 6----Salvation is about grace (Ephesians 2:5-9); discipleship is about works (Revelation 22:12). 7----Eternal life is the result of salvation in Christ (John 3:16); eternal rewards are the result of successful discipleship (Matthew 16:27). CONCLUSION - It is very important to understand the difference between believing on Christ for salvation and following Him in discipleship. These concepts are certainly connected, but the book of John makes it clear that they are not the same. Believers will fail to live a holy life unless they understand discipleship, and they will lack assurance of their salvation if they confuse salvation with discipleship. A Christian who thinks he can lose his salvation, or has a miserable life because he realizes how much he is flawed or has an arrogant life because he thinks there is something good he can do to be or stay saved. I've been in your situation so I know how hard is for men to understand Grace. God's grace is so counterintuitive and everything we do in our life is just based on conditions. You do this for me and I'll do that for you. Or if you don't do this for me, I won't do that for you. And God's grace works in a completely different direction. :)
Justificado many thanks for your clear reply. I see where we differ, and my view is independent based on KJV, and thankfully we both give scriptural evidence for our views. To me what you call discipleship I would call sanctification and regeneration, and you call salvation I see as justification by the grace of God for faith in Christ Jesus. By intuition I think the definition of both faith and belief here are critical. The just shall live faith, therefore faith is how you live, as Romans 4 reveals the trust and obedience to God by Abraham. Also as John 6:39-40 "believeth on him", is to hear and obey and continues believing. Romans is "the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth, following the instructions therein. Salvation is by grace (mercy), but where does it say by the grace of God alone. I cite scripture that requires the grace or mercy of Christ for eternal life. I suggest that "God's grace is counter-intuitive" for Salvation is because scripture tells us Christ Jesus alone is our judge as John 5:22. Sensible people know that Christianity is a faith of good works, and need to know what they are defined as. Luther was obsessed with eternal security, yet if he followed 2 Peter 1:1-11 as I do, instead of the sound-bites from scripture he looked for to minimalise Christian works and put all salvation to the works of Jesus, then many would not have been mislead.
I thank you for your kind and gracious reply. 2 Peter 1:1-11: Again, is about your position in heaven. All born-again Christians will enter the kingdom of Christ, but only those who develop the Christian character described in this chapter will have a special kind of entrance. For so, says Peter, an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly. Romans 4 shows that Salvation, God’s Righteousness by Faith Alone in Christ Alone Existed in the OT. Abraham was certain about what God had promised and understood that his eternal destiny was secure as a result of believing God’s promise about the coming Savior. Romans 4 is a basic chapter about eternal salvation. John 5:22 - The words “all judgment” include all eschatological judgments, the judgment of believers for rewards, (the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10), and the judgment of unbelievers, the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15). That is a beautiful and motivating verse. John 6:39-40 has nothing to do with keep believing, this is foreign to that verse. Christ saves people the very moment they believe. You will only confuse that if you fail to understand that It is not eternal faith that appropriates salvation; it is Faith that appropriates Eternal Salvation. The Bible Is Crystal Clear About it: 'If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.' (2 Timothy 2:13) Eternal life cannot be lost because it depends on Christ’s faithfulness, but rewards can be lost because they depend on the believers’ faithfulness (2 Tim 2:12; Heb 10:35; Rev 2:26). As I said before, I see that Youre confusing: -Eternal Position VS Temporal Experience -Being a Christian VS Living as a Christian -Regeneration (the new birth) VS Santification (living through your new birth; you cant undo your new birth) -Failing to see that Works will determine rewards but not salvation Jesus is no longer the Saviour if we fail to rightly divide these basic truths, cause if works can save then Christ died in vain (Gal 2:21). Dont work for your redemption, work for your Redeemer. The Gospel is Good News!! NOT ''good possibility''! :)
This is erroneous teaching; for Jesus Christ Himself said in Luke 24:46-47... "Thus it is written, and thus it is necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, "and that Repentance and Remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations..... 2Cort 7:10 says "for godly sorrow produces Repentance leading to Salvation..... The scriptures speaks for itself. How can anyone preach anything else. Besides, evidence itself prove that without repentance, a person will continue to be a slave to sin. It's convenient to pick and choose scriptures to suit a desired doctrine, but it's very dangerous.
this was dead on. GOD bless Dr Hodges soul. I look forward to meeting you in the presence of our LORD Jesus
This makes things reallly open up in my understanding...Calvinism and Lordship Salvation caused me to doubt everything ...im so glad I now understand the Grace of Almighty God!
Can you imagine what Christ must think when 5 point Calvinist/Lordship teachers boldly proclaim that Jesus only died for the sins of the elect? It must break His heart! He wants everyone saved, and made it possible if they only will believe it. On the Cross Jesus "TOOK AWAY the sin of the WORLD!" John 1:29. Now when we witness to people, we can look them straight in the eye and say "Jesus loves you and He died for YOU to pay the death penalty you deserve for your sin." Reformed Calvinists can't say that to ANYONE. They have no certainty that they or anyone else for that matter is elect! The truth Zane presents in this message is a powerful motivation for me to get out and tell everyone who will listen, such wonderful news!
Thank you and pray for me that I will be more bold and witnessing to the Lost and more disciplined to walk in the spirit... thank you and praise God who paid it all
@@dreiher2 , exactly. I have recognized the same, miserable thing. I have been mired in Calvinism for years. I bought into it because I was convinced, despondent, though it made me, that it was true. These wonderful, free grace teachings are setting me free. Thank you.
@@dreiher2 this is not the gospel, a convoluted mess. Oh my !
Love his teachings, can anyone expound on the book of life part? When and how does a believer get their name written into the book? The reason I had learned for why unbelievers go to Hell is for rejecting God, and God respects their desires of not wanting him. He doesn't force himself on anybody
A simple refutation:
"If ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die IN YOUR SINS."
He said exactly that.
@@garyleemusic No, he said the payment is applied to all, and people only go to hell because they "lack eternal life"
@@faith_alone and how does one escape Hell? By receiving eternal life. How do you get eternal life? By believing in Jesus.
He also answers this question in the q and a period.
@Gary's Guitar Tips Believing in Jesus isn't all that is required to be saved.
The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience.
Jesus’ repeated warnings to the religious hypocrites of His day as proof that simply agreeing to spiritual facts does not save a person. There must be a heart change. Jesus emphasized the high cost of discipleship: “Whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27), and “Those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples” (verse 33). In the same passage, Jesus speaks of counting the cost;
elsewhere, He stresses total commitment: “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62).
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says that eternal life is a narrow path found by “only a few” (Matthew 7:14); in contrast, some seek to broaden the path so that anyone who has a profession of faith can enter. Jesus says that “every good tree bears good fruit” (verse 17); in contrast, some say that a tree can still be good and bear nothing but bad fruit. Jesus says
that many who say “Lord, Lord” will not enter the kingdom (verses 21-23); in contrast, some teach that saying “Lord, Lord” is good enough.
Paul and James
taught that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then they will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life
2 Corinthians 5:17
Galatians 5:22-23
James 2:14-26
I think its good to point out its not just free grace people that find that point inadequate its synergists in general
Propitiation in 1 John 2:2 is very clear. The sins of mankind have been propitiated by Christ on the cross. The sins of the human race have been judged but not forgiven. When a person receives Christ their sins are forgiven.
When a person rejects Christ even though their sins were judged their sins remain unforgiven. Even though their sins are unforgiven that is not the basis of their condemnation. Rejection of Christ is.
Rejection of Christ means you must stand on your own human good in the presence of God. Human good can never propitiate God otherwise there would be no need for the cross. Excellent video!
Almost! There is no receiving Christ; only believing Him for eternal life.
I dont think your wording is good. I'd say our sins have been paid for, but that payment is only effectual if we accept it.
Would love to hear his sermon on “election” to salvation AND perdition….considering the free will of man.
Wow! Such an intense powerful sermon. I must share this with others. Thank you for the blessing.☝️🙏☝️🕊️💯🤎
Awesome sermon
Further, how can revelation 20:12 be true if Hodges is right here when it says the books were opened and they were judged according to their works (great white throne)? How can the unsaved be judged by their sins if they were paid for? They aren't paid for unless you accept the payment.
He said they are judged for their works, no one is judged for their sins
@@allenbrininstool7558 This is the great white throne judgement. If they are being judged by their works, that includes bad works, which are also called "sins".
@@faith_alone None of their works 'good' or 'bad' - will justify them before a holy God
"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him..." (Rom 3:20 YLT)
“Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Rom 4:3
One must believe to be saved - it's always been that way.
One thing the speaker did not bring up is that there is an eternal sin - and no one quickened (Eph 2:1 kjv) and made alive will be condemned for it.
John 3:18 kjv
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Back in the 80's, I use to take the same view as Hodges. I called it unlimited remissionism. one thing that started to concern me was nobody else held the view, except my pastor. Sometime after I came across Hodges' "Gospel Under Siege" and Wilkin came to my church to speak on assurance, I asked him about this view. He didn't agree with it but said someone as DTS held it. But years later, I see Wilkin holds this view. Hodges seems to see all references in Scripture to the remission of sins as fellowship-forgiveness. I find that view difficult. I came to the conclusion that Christ's death was an unlimited propitiation for sin, but remission of of sin (release from penalty) is through faith. If one is released from the penalty, then they are justified and born again. Otherwise, what benefit is it to be released from the penalty of sin if you are still experiencing what sin resulted in, which is separation from God? Whatever one may believe about propitiation and remission, one still has to believe in Christ to be saved.
Zane and I and other GES folks believe there are 2 senses of forgiveness. One is the one that happens the second we are born again. The second is what happens every time a born again person confesses sin. It is important to realize that we are talking about no sin being taken away for OT believers until Christ died, and all sin being taken away now. OT saints were never REALLY forgiven. The sin was only covered (atoned) for until Christ came and paid for it. Also, very important, is the fact that it is technically incorrect to tell an unsaved person that they need to believe in Jesus for forgiveness of sin for all time. The Bible, on the contrary, teaches that the moment they sin after being born again, they no longer have forgiveness of sin until they confess that sin. Early in the book of Acts, we see a time period between when Paul was born again, and the time he was Baptised and received forgiveness of sins. Now, there is no longer a time period between the two. We get them simultaneously. The book of Acts is the exception to what happens today.
The Romans road ends in a Cul de Sac. I no longer use it mainly for this reason. Our problem is not trying to get God to forgive our Sin. That problem has been fully dealt with. Our problem is that we are dead. If a person is killed by a bullet, and you remove the bullet, they still have a problem. Right?
I understand there is a difference between being released from eternal consequences of sin and temporal release, being fellowship forgiveness.
I know what you are saying about Paul's experience.
An interesting analogy with one killed with a bullet.
I guess it depends on what one wants to include with propitiation or with Justification and regeneration.
Even though we believe Christ's death was a propitiation for all sin for all people, one is not saved until they believe in Christ for it (salvation).
For me, the question is whether remission of sins (not fellowship forgiveness) is the immediate result of propitiation or received by faith, in which one is justified and born again.
It just seems that if one is released from consequences of sin, they should be justified and regenerated--since the consequences of sin is seperation from God and death.
If Peter was sent to tell Cornelius words by which he would be saved (Acts 11), and he tells him that all the prophets witness that whoever believes in Christ receives remission of sins (Acts 10), then it seems remission of sins is salvation.
I guess what I'm saying, is that remission is not just removing the bullet, but the consequences of the bullet.
For what is the point of removing a bullet from a dead person? Of course, analogys are often imperfect things.
The whole point is that while you are giving the saving message to a lost person in front of you, you can tell them that Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for the sin of everyone for all time, because He really did. The "Bullet" has been dealt with -- taken out. However, they are still DEAD. Their sin does not condemn them to hell, just like their good works won't qualify them for heaven. They just need to believe in Jesus for everlasting life. He took the death penalty we all deserved. I don't know about you, but this is what I spend 99% of my time doing in evangelism. Even people in Bible Believing churches believe the lie that your works have to continue until you die, or else your faith was temporary, not able to get you everlasting life at the final judgment, and if you don't persevere until death in faith and good works, you are not really born again. I spend a lot of my time evangelizing evangelicals. They think faith, that is, being persuaded in your mind of the truth of Christ's promise is not enough. They say "faith without works is dead," the same way that Catholics, and Jehovah's witnesses claim. James is not saying faith without works is NONFAITH, he is saying that it does no earthly good. It is useless to save people from the temporal salvation (not salvation from hell to heaven) being spoken of so much in James and other places in the Bible. They think you must have works to prove you are really born again.Jesus never taught that. I am pretty sure we agree on that point.
Great sermon! ❤
What happens to someone they didn’t hear the gospel and then they died in the car crash what happens to them?
This guy is so wrong to say that Christ paid for the sins of every single person when in John 17 Jesus wouldn't even pray for the world he said he does not pray for the world but only for those given to him by the father. if He wouldn't even pray for them, then how's he going to die for them? Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world in the sense of every elect person in the whole world. You have to consider everything that scripture says not just a few verses out of context.
I did not like his answer to the first very important question.
“I don’t know”?
What?
I answer for you:
before the foundation of the world
I look at it as God is the one being propitiated by the cross, we are reconciled by the cross. God could not look upon man because of sin but still had a purpose for him so Christ propitiated God by taking His wrath and thus allowing fellowship.
Everyone is dead in their sins even after he died on the cross, as 1 Corinthians 15:17, it is his work after his resurrection that counts. He was raised for our justification (a process of sanctification by the Holy Spirit, and obedience unto death), as Romans 4:25, agreed with you 1 Peter 1:2. Our works cannot save us, as Christ's grace is required, and that depends on our works.
If all mankind's Sins are taken away (John 1:29), and God is no longer counting sins against mankind (1 Cor. 5:19), and if Christ is the propitiation for all maknkind's sins for believers in the same way as unbelievers (1 John 2:2), then how can our sins be the reason we are spiritually dead (i.e. separated from God)? Right before Jesus died on the cross, he stated, "It is finished." His death and resurrection were necessary to show that He was the Christ. The payment for sin was already made. You seemed to have ignored Rom. 4:5. That says that only those who refuse to work (both before and after the moment of believing His saving promise) can be born again. Works have absolutely nothing to do with salvation or assurance of being born again. There are several different meanings of the word "Saved" or "Salvation" in the Bible, depending upon the context. There is justification salvation, which is a one point in time being born again. Then there is Sanctification salvation, which may or may not happen because it is based not upon God, but upon us growing in the Lord. Some born again people have no fruit or outward evidence, so in that sense they are not "Saved" in the sense of Sanctification salvation. However, their behavior has no bearing whatsoever on whether they are born again or not. That kind of looking at works to either not lose everlasting life, or to try and prove to yourself and others that you have it, is called Lordship Salvation, and that message can save nobody because whoever believes that cannot have 100% Assurance of Salvation (Once Saved Always Saved."
dreiher2 many thanks for your reply, please read my argument against it.
John 1:29, "which taketh away the sin of the world", is only a headline not doctrine. 2 Corinthians 5:19 is talk about reconciliation, not doctrine. 1 John 2:2 "he is the propitiation for our sins", again a headline concealing a combination of effects prophecies in OT, split then by redemption on the cross, purchasing the church of God and starting the NT, and forgiveness or atonement when the faithful die.
I say we are justified by the grace of God, but not by God alone. Scripture tells to seek for justification by the grace of Christ. This is double justification, a two-fold declaration, by God for faith in Christ, and in the end by Christ for the life of faith of trust and obedience.
Jesus' death and resurrection show more than his Christship. We are baptised into both his death and resurrection. As Romans 4:25 Jesus "was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification". The pivotal verse of Christianity, as after the cross we are still dead in our sins.
Romans 4:5 showed that Abraham's faith was counted by God for righteousness, so our faith in Christ is counted by God for righteousness. However as with Abraham in 4:12 we must "also walk in the steps of faith", and from that faith "perform" as 4:21.
God justifies for faith in Christ, which is being born again or raised with Christ, and faith is to trust and obey.
Righteous works, as opposed to ceremonial works, have nothing to do with being born again, but are essential to salvation. We are saved by grace, by God's free gift for faith in Christ as Ephesians 2:8, and by the grace of Christ for our righteous works as Ephesians 2:10 and Titus 3:7.
You mention sanctification salvation, that is what we are born again into, as 1 Peter 1:2. Being born again is not Salvation but the way to it.
My study shows eternal security requires works, easily understood if not achieved, as 2 Peter 1:1-11. That is why we have to mortifying the deeds of the flesh, not just believe Jesus died to send the ungodly to heaven, but to send those that prove they are godly.
I am sorry but you make no sense whatsoever. You are not looking at the Bible but something else and are reading things into the text that are not there. Please go through the 27 lesson Hermeneutics course I am posting at th-cam.com/play/PLr_4OdbakXn5aig9BO6TukjVZyyR4WVj7.html
dreiher2 if you look at the Holy Bible KJV as I do totam scripturam, that is all of scripture, then you will rely less on grace than faith. The just shall live by faith, justified by faith in Christ, for by grace are ye saved through faith.
What is grace, it is mercy for something, a free gift from God for faith, and from Christ for a godly life. Faith is the key to grace, the law of faith.
Sir, the whole Reformation went astray on this point, they were so wanting to escape the RCC they misused scripture and the whole emphasis on grace for faith, instead of grace from faith has lead you and much of Christianity to error. Double justification was argued by Reformers and Augustine, as it is clearly recorded in scripture, but you override it by grace for believing that Jesus sacrificed himself so that we need do nothing, yet scripture tells us otherwise.
Sir, I am sorry to say the premise of grace is taken in the wrong way, as the bargain is grace for faith, when faith (complete trust and the duty to fulfil that trust) does not exist neither does grace. As you know I have a long way to go to make you change, so be it, but the more independent students read the Holy Bible the harder you will find it to preach grace before faith. Salvation or not depends on this, and to get it wrong would be a crime against humanity.
The reason I adopted totam scripturam was a failsafe way I thought up to make all scripture equal, and add together verses to find the one faith taught by the apostles. I have no conflict with Paul and James, or Paul and Jesus because I add them to each other.
Look again at the possibility that justification in Romans 4:25, means the process told in 1 Peter 1:2, belief to sanctification to obedience to atonement by the grace of Jesus Christ, and you will find a structure of faith that is easy for people to understand about eternal security. A comforting passage being 2 Peter 1:1-11, as it builds a framework that matches other passages like Galatians 5:13-25, and Romans 13:8-10.
Granted this is a harder 'sell' than grace alone but people want eternal security, as did Luther, and security means Christianity a faith of good works.
@@simonskinner1450 In Romans 4:4-5 the context is not the Law of Moses, but Abraham, 430 years before the Law. Paul says, "Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who DOES NOT WORK, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness." That justification brings everlasting life that cannot be forfeited.
James then talks about the discipleship that should follow this. You bring confusion by mixing them together.
In other words and unbeliever can live a more lovely and caring life than the believer, but yet because the unbeliever does not have eternal life within him will go to hell
Which makes a mockery out of grace.
I don’t have any problems with this. This man is telling the truth because he’s reading it from the Bible.
He's twisting scripture to mean what he wants it to mean
Beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!! share please!
Man is justified, man is saved 𝐛𝐲 𝐟𝐚𝐢𝐭𝐡 in the one who paid (propitiated) the penalty of sin.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Those who had no faith in God's propitiatory sacrifice will be judged for the things they did rely on, their own efforts (Revelation 20:13).... Their imperfect 'works' will be found inadequate in justifying them before a perfect and Holy God.
The sad thing is that many reformed/lordship people believe in faith that works, and assurance based upon those works and have never simply believed upon Jesus. Many Lordship folks will be at the Great White Throne. They are not condemned "already" because they don't have a faith that works, but because they NEVER really had "faith" alone as you and I believe in. Some Lordship folks are born again, perhaps as children, before they get confused by people later on. Thank God for that.
Dr. David Allen did a workshop on "The extent of the atonement" based upon his massive book on the same topic. It is quite an eye-opener. th-cam.com/video/9Wr9hbyCJKA/w-d-xo.html
Having started to listen to Dr.David Allen he seems ignorant of the view of Zane.Hodges here expressed. Allen said "in regard to the application of the atonement alll orthodox Christian's MUST believe that the atonement of Christ is only applied to those who believe"..Zane Hodges case is that the atonement applys to all regardless of faith.
Very different
dreiher2, Zane Hodges teaches that Propitiation is applied to all even if they don't accept it. Yet, in Rom. 3:24 Paul says, "Whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, . . . Doesn't this teach that propitiation only counts if we accept it by faith?
I think he’s saying that by definition propitiation expunges the legal ramifications of sin. In other words propitiation means the legal case against us has been pardoned because it has been paid for by Christ. And thus accepting or not accepting is irrelevant.
The opening illustration is helpful: if a condemned man sentenced to death is pardoned by the state, the state will not carry out the sentence regardless of the wishes (acceptance) of the condemned man. The legal case against the condemned man no longer exists.
Strange that Hodges doesn't mention repentance of sin, the only way to have sins forgiven and salvation
@@2Chronicles714_ Prove that with scripture.
@Gregory Latta
Luke 24:47
And REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS will be preached in His name to 👉ALL NATIONS 👈Starting in Jerusalem.
Jesus said:
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
When did Peter start the church?
Acts 2 is the day of pentecost.
How did Peter say the Jews as well as the Gentiles are to be saved?
Acts 2:37-39
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
Peter replied, “REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children AND FOR ALL WHO ARE FAR OFF meaning (gentiles) for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.
Note Peter said the same thing as Jesus We are to repent of sin for the forgiveness of sins, without forgiveness their is no Salvation.
Peter again makes it understood that this includes Gentiles.
Acts 11:18
When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted REPENTANCE THAT LEADS TO LIFE.” Repentance leads to eternal life.
Paul too preached repentance.
Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance but now COMMANDETH ALL PEOPLE EVERY WHERE TO REPENT.
Paul's teaching in Acts is also for Gentiles.
Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they MUST TURN TO GOD IN REPENTANCE AND HAVE FAITH in our Lord Jesus.
Paul recounts his conversion with Jesus,
Acts 26:18-20
To open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
19“So then, Kingopen their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
19“So then, King
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should REPENT AND TURN TO GOD and DEMONSTRATE THEIR REPENTANCE BY THEIR DEEDS. Paul says Repent and believe and show your repentance by your deeds or how you live.
2 Corinthians 7:9-10
Yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because YOUR SORROW LED YOU TO REPENTANCE. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 GODLY SORROW BRINGS brings
👉REPENTANCE THAT LEADS TO
SALVATION 👈and leaves no regret, but WORLDLY SORROW BRINGS DEATH.
@@2Chronicles714_ Repentance simply means to turn to Jesus. Godly sorrow leads to repentance means feeling sad that you have sinned should cause you to turn to Jesus which is clearly the only way.
Why does the bible actually say he was a ransom for many it doesn't use the word all but it uses the word in many can someone explain this please acknowledge my comment
In neither Mark 10:45 nor in Matt 20:28 was Jesus talking about any subset of people in the context. Many=All unless you can prove otherwise from the context. Chapter and verse please, of descriptions of people that Jesus did not die to pay the penalty of sin for. How could anybody be regenerated by simple intellectual persuasion (belief) if He did not pay the death penalty we all deserved, and that we could not pay, only the God-Man could ever pay? We can't "pay" for our sin in hell, only Jesus could "pay" for sinbecause we are not God. Only Jesus as God could pay the penalty for sin.
This guy says that you only go to hell because you are dead, not because of your sins. But the Bible says that you only die because of sin. So this guy is just playing word games.
I think you misunderstand. See th-cam.com/video/Iz4vwgyhw3A/w-d-xo.html Why is the "Book of Life" not called "Book of forgiveness from sins?" The issue is life, not sin. Lewis Sperry Chafer said, "Because of what Jesus accomplished on the Cross, men no longer have a 'Sin' problem. They have a 'Son' problem." Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of the entire world. The issue is not for people who are not born again to try and get God to forgive them. The solution is to come to Jesus to get Everlasting Life.
@@dreiher2 It's not called the book of forgiveness of sins because in order to be living, their sins already got forgiven when they initially got saved. That is in the past. From that point on, they are simply living. They don't need forgiveness again.
You obviously didn't hear or understand what he said or the clear teaching of Scriptures!
He said you don't go to hell because of or to pay for your sin/sins. But because you don't have Eternal life. The reason people don't have or never receive Eternal life is because they have never believed in Jesus for it!
If this is true, how can there be a greater damnation? How can there be different levels of punishment if everyone has had their sins remitted?
Also, if there are different levels of punishment, then what you're saying is pointless because apparently it do anything. Theological navel-gazing
Is this Springfield Illinois? I wouldn't knowingly subscribe to anything Christian coming out of Illinois.
Faith by works all day. Eternal security...is the gospel
What the heck is this guy saying!? Seems like a ball of confusion. Whatever!
I thought my sins were paid for i guest god whatsnt enough
Rodney Rose it seems to me that God is never enough for Salvation, God of course never paid for our sins, but Jesus did. As Romans 3:25 God set forth Jesus to sanctify himself, qualify to be our high priest, and judge us by our works. God by his grace justifies those that have faith in Christ Jesus, the just shall live by faith, so a life of complete trust and obedience in Christ will earn his approval and mercy.
Jesus paid for our sins when he purchased the church of God, he is the redeemer and now our Lord and judge.
Simon Skinner JESUS IS GOD!
I agree brother, this man it " attempting" to preach God's word but he doesn't understand grace
@@jerrymann20 , sir, I say this with no disrespect for you as a creature made in the image of God, but you don't know your keester from a sinkhole. We all start out in that bankrupt condition. I hope you will study the messages this magnificent teacher has left us.
I think we need to make the mental separation between sin and works... this is where I’ve been stuck in understanding Christ’s work on the cross and resurrection and how someone actually here saved and what it means. Being free from their sin is part of salvation, in a sense, but isn’t complete until you have eternal life. So if I understand Hodges correctly, all men’s sins have been removed, but it isn’t enough for forgiveness of sins to send us to heaven. We need the second part: eternal life.
People are condemned because they die as an repented sinner regardless of whether they believe in Jesus.
Jesus makes that clear to the religious hypocrites of His day that belief alone will not justify.
Jesus's final command for us to preach to the world,
Luke 24:47
And REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS will be preached in his name to all nations starting in Jerusalem.
Repentance of disbelief not sins. That is part of sanctification not salvation.
@Gregory Latta
Is not disbelief a sin?
Repent means change your mind about your sinfulled life ALL SINS,INCLUDING UNBELIEF,false gods,witchcraft,self righteousness etc.
Hebrews 6:1-2
So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God.2You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
I have a problem with no one you goes to hell because of their sin well there is one sin that can send you to hell and that's called the sin of unbelief so the only thing that could send you to hell is the sin it's called a sin it's called the sin of unbelief show is Hodges correct or is he a liar let's see what the Bible says the Bible says that the only sin that wasn't paid for was the sin of unbelief right because if the sin of unbelief was paid for then that would cover you to where you could then have everlasting life Jesus offers everlasting life but you have to believe or should I say trust
Where in the Bible does it say people will be cast into the lake of fire because of the sin of unbelief? Where does the Bible teach the the sin of unbelief was not paid for? Jesus took away all the sin of the world (John 1:29, 3:1-16, 1 John 2:2), not all sins except unbelief. Belief is not something we can decide to do. We are either convinced of Jesus' promise of everlasting life, on the basis of His death and resurrection, or we are not convinced. Trust normally implies something beyond intellectual persuasion or being convinced. Unbelievers can decide to be open to the evidence, or to be closed to the evidence. The actual moment of persuasion is really a passive thing, not active like "Trust"
usually is.
Only those who die in rebellion as unrepentant sinners will go to hell whether they claim to believe or not.
@@dreiher2John 3-15 how do you explain that I really hope your not saying people who don't believe on the lord are saved cause that's all over the bible that's just universalism
his entire doctrine of judicial payment via universal propitiation is corrupt! Debunked right here!
*[[Rom **3:25**/KJVLite]]* Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
I don't know what you are talking about.
Go away! You speak nonsense!
God justifies by faith in Christ, and Christ justifies by our works. Read Revelation 21:7 & 8 and you will sin as the deciding factor. You cannot be saved by faith alone by God alone. Faith is to trust and obey.
Hi, Simon :)
Rev 21:7 is about rewards. Victorious believers will be given many experiences and rewards in eternity, among which is the privilege of ruling with Christ (Rev 2:26-27; 3:21).
There is no hybrid gospel that incorporates BOTH grace and works. Romans 11:6 Teaches salvation cannot be by Grace and Works. Salvation is either free-grace or works-based. If Grace depends on our cooperation then it is no longer Grace (Unmerited favour).
Galatians 2:16 tell us that NO flesh will be justified by works.
The scriptures tell us over and over that we are already declared righteous by his BLOOD alone (Romans 5:9; Hebrews 9:22; 2 Co 5:21).
Think salvation in terms of a father’s relationship with his son. That biological relationship can never be undone. The son is always a child of his father. In the same way, once we believe in Jesus for everlasting life, we become adopted as children of God (John 1:12, Gal 4:4-7). That relationship with God can never be undone. Everlasting life is a permanent gift (Ephesians 2:8-9).
:)
Justificado there is a hybrid text for both grace and works, Ephesians 2:8-10. "For by grace are ye saved through faith", and that is faith in Christ and to completely trust and obey him. The gift of grace from God is for your faith, not ceremonial works, as Abraham in Romans 4. Then in Ephesians 10 that faith in Christ is shown as we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Faith is trust and obedience.
Same in Titus 3:1-7, works of righteousness (good works) though necessary as Titus 2:14, we are justified by the grace of Christ for eternal life. Even Jude 21, looking to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
God justifies the ungodly for their faith, and Jesus Christ justifies the godly for their works. Remember we are baptised (pledged) to God the Father and Jesus the Son.
Simon,
Oh I see where you're coming from. Basically youre just mixing Salvation with Discipleship :l
Always remember the basic principle of Bible interpretation: Unclear passages should be understood in light of clear ones and not the other way around.
Lordship Salvation violates this principle in two ways:
1) It bases its understanding of the Gospel on unclear passages of Scripture;
2) It overthrows the correct interpretation of clear passages by understanding them in light of faulty interpretations of the unclear passages.
For example, John 6:39 clearly teaches that you cant lose your salvation. So doesnt matter what any other verse says, it cannot contradic this simple truth John 6:39 teaches.
I will show you 7 simple and basic distinctions between SALVATION and DISCIPLESHIP:
1----Christ’s invitation to salvation is, “Come unto me” (Matthew 11:28); His call to discipleship is, “Come after Me” (Matthew 16:24).
2----Salvation is about the Cross of Christ (Matthew 16:21); discipleship is about your own cross (Matthew 16:22-24).
3----At salvation, you receive a gift, eternal life (John 4:10 and Romans 6:23); in discipleship, you give a gift, your body (Romans 12:1).
4----The salvation decision (putting faith in Christ for eternal life) must be made only once (John 5:24, 6:37-40, 10:27-28); the discipleship decision (commitment to obey Christ) must be made again and again (Luke 9:23).
5----Salvation is a sure thing (Romans 8:1, 8-11, 28-30, 33-39); discipleship is always in danger of failing (Luke 14:25-35).
6----Salvation is about grace (Ephesians 2:5-9); discipleship is about works (Revelation 22:12).
7----Eternal life is the result of salvation in Christ (John 3:16); eternal rewards are the result of successful discipleship (Matthew 16:27).
CONCLUSION - It is very important to understand the difference between believing on Christ for salvation and following Him in discipleship. These concepts are certainly connected, but the book of John makes it clear that they are not the same. Believers will fail to live a holy life unless they understand discipleship, and they will lack assurance of their salvation if they confuse salvation with discipleship. A Christian who thinks he can lose his salvation, or has a miserable life because he realizes how much he is flawed or has an arrogant life because he thinks there is something good he can do to be or stay saved.
I've been in your situation so I know how hard is for men to understand Grace. God's grace is so counterintuitive and everything we do in our life is just based on conditions. You do this for me and I'll do that for you. Or if you don't do this for me, I won't do that for you. And God's grace works in a completely different direction.
:)
Justificado many thanks for your clear reply. I see where we differ, and my view is independent based on KJV, and thankfully we both give scriptural evidence for our views. To me what you call discipleship I would call sanctification and regeneration, and you call salvation I see as justification by the grace of God for faith in Christ Jesus.
By intuition I think the definition of both faith and belief here are critical. The just shall live faith, therefore faith is how you live, as Romans 4 reveals the trust and obedience to God by Abraham. Also as John 6:39-40 "believeth on him", is to hear and obey and continues believing.
Romans is "the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth, following the instructions therein.
Salvation is by grace (mercy), but where does it say by the grace of God alone. I cite scripture that requires the grace or mercy of Christ for eternal life.
I suggest that "God's grace is counter-intuitive" for Salvation is because scripture tells us Christ Jesus alone is our judge as John 5:22. Sensible people know that Christianity is a faith of good works, and need to know what they are defined as.
Luther was obsessed with eternal security, yet if he followed 2 Peter 1:1-11 as I do, instead of the sound-bites from scripture he looked for to minimalise Christian works and put all salvation to the works of Jesus, then many would not have been mislead.
I thank you for your kind and gracious reply.
2 Peter 1:1-11: Again, is about your position in heaven. All born-again Christians will enter the kingdom of Christ, but only those who develop the Christian character described in this chapter will have a special kind of entrance. For so, says Peter, an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly.
Romans 4 shows that Salvation, God’s Righteousness by Faith Alone in Christ Alone Existed in the OT. Abraham was certain about what God had promised and understood that his eternal destiny was secure as a result of believing God’s promise about the coming Savior. Romans 4 is a basic chapter about eternal salvation.
John 5:22 - The words “all judgment” include all eschatological judgments, the judgment of believers for rewards, (the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10), and the judgment of unbelievers, the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15). That is a beautiful and motivating verse.
John 6:39-40 has nothing to do with keep believing, this is foreign to that verse. Christ saves people the very moment they believe. You will only confuse that if you fail to understand that It is not eternal faith that appropriates salvation; it is Faith that appropriates Eternal Salvation.
The Bible Is Crystal Clear About it:
'If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.' (2 Timothy 2:13)
Eternal life cannot be lost because it depends on Christ’s faithfulness, but rewards can be lost because they depend on the believers’ faithfulness (2 Tim 2:12; Heb 10:35; Rev 2:26).
As I said before, I see that Youre confusing:
-Eternal Position VS Temporal Experience
-Being a Christian VS Living as a Christian
-Regeneration (the new birth) VS Santification (living through your new birth; you cant undo your new birth)
-Failing to see that Works will determine rewards but not salvation
Jesus is no longer the Saviour if we fail to rightly divide these basic truths, cause if works can save then Christ died in vain (Gal 2:21).
Dont work for your redemption, work for your Redeemer. The Gospel is Good News!! NOT ''good possibility''!
:)
This is faith by works. God said faith justifies the heathen. This is a false gospel
I believe you may be correct!
This is faith by works. God said faith justifies the heathen. This is a false gospel
Your contradicting YOURSELF!
Did you even watch the whole video he is free grace evidently you did not
This is erroneous teaching; for Jesus Christ Himself said in Luke 24:46-47... "Thus it is written, and thus it is necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, "and that Repentance and Remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations..... 2Cort 7:10 says "for godly sorrow produces Repentance leading to Salvation..... The scriptures speaks for itself. How can anyone preach anything else. Besides, evidence itself prove that without repentance, a person will continue to be a slave to sin. It's convenient to pick and choose scriptures to suit a desired doctrine, but it's very dangerous.