Excellent! I needed this. As a fake book player, I’ve played a lot of standards for years with zero understanding. You are a gap filler! This is jazz gold. Thanks!!
Excellent teacher. You actually explain things rather than reading out what you've been told or read and place into its appropriate context. You also show humility in admitting that you aren't 100% sure why the standard notation has evolved as it has. I find music theory is often over complex to describe what is simply relationships and combinations of intervals of notes. We need music theory to communicate ideas in the same way that we use language to communicate objects, feelings, events and so on and language is often more complex than it needs to be.
🙏 Thanks for the great comment. Yeah, from what I understand English can be a difficult language to learn and we certainly do things that maybe over complicate things!
I didn't need this lesson but watched nonetheless because I enjoy the presentation of your content. So, thank you EDIT: you taught me something even though I already fully understand all the 7 chords! The reasoning for why, makes perfect sense and I believe you're absolutely correct
Internet surely got everything for everyone! I was just looking into this yesterday and there you are! Fresh video about the topic. I think it’s too late, algorithm got us all figured out. For better or worse.. lol
This is music theory done in an entertaining way with practical applications built right in. Definitely the best music theory channel on TH-cam. Keep it up! You’re going places.
You nailed it with the Cmaj7 and Cm7 examples. However it can be helpful to remember that "maj" only ever applies to the 7, and "m" only ever applies to the 3rd. Notationally, the "default" 7 is the dominant, so when you want the major 7 you specify with "maj", because "7" by itself means dominant 7. Similarly the "default" third is major, so when you want minor you specify with "m". That's why a C minor with a major 7 is written as "CmM7" or "Cm(maj7)" or similar: you are specifying that you want the "non-default" 3rd and 7. As a rule, you can just remember that the dominant 7 is also the "default" chord, being both major and a dominant 7. That's how I think of it anyway. Finally, the default 5th is the regular 5th, and dim moves it down, aug moves it up. edit: The diminished 7 is easy to remember too because it only appears in the fully diminished 7 chord. This makes sense too, because if the 5th wasn't diminished, you'd just call it a 6th chord, because the diminished 7 is the 6th: It's A in the key of C for example.
funny how i keep getting questions and you literally keep answering them real time during the video xdd you seem so intelligent but nice. Thank you for making these ❤ (was questioning why not name major just C7 xdd)
Ha! Hopefully I didn't leave any other questions on the table! I've had a few interesting comments from people with other thoughts/arguments for why major 7 chords aren't just called 7 chords.
been learning music theory with the help of the internet and youtube and lately your videos. And after breaking my head while thinking about this I explained that naming convention to myself with the same reasoning. While it is confusing to people learning it, once you think this through it is actually to avoid confusion and makes sense. To give you yet another name, in german we name the V7 chord Dominantseptakkord. :)
New subscriber here Michael. If I had the knowledge and the talent, this is EXACTLY the kind of music-related content that I'd produce . . . thanks for relieving me of that arduous task! 😉
@@michaelkeithson I'll bet it's lovely. I'm a bit of an Anglophile myself, but I avoid the big cities. Anyhow, Happy New Year from sunny southern California!
Hey man, thanks for the comment. I have done a separate video about diminished chords and I do cover some scale theory in there too I think: th-cam.com/video/VPZjtoJemuY/w-d-xo.html
Great content as usual. Thanks for the hard work. When I first studied music back in the mid to late 1960s, I was taught that it was called a dominant 7th because it was used more often. That made sense to me at the time because a lot of musicians were playing country music. However, once I ventured out into rock, etc. I seen this was not the case. Your explanation makes more sense.
Hey Mark, thanks for the comment. I do believe that prior to more modern music styles the dom7 was significantly more commonly used than any other 7. Maybe that's where they got the name 'Dominant' - which came first?! I don't know
You can also use C13 or C9 chords, which belong to the dominant seventh family. If they were major seventh chords, they would be notated as Cmaj9 or Cmaj13. Music theory can be confusing, but it all makes sense when you realize that every piece is connected like a puzzle. Great video as always 😊
I highly encourage you to build an online music theory curriculum, I and countless others will buy it instantly. Amazing content, music theory demystified.
Thoroughly explained, and fun along the way as usual. Thanks! (I'm not sure I can promise to never use 'CM7'. It's just so nice and small. I see the problem, though: CM7 Cm7... too easy to misread.) Your theory on why we don't call it flat 7 and the maj7 just 7 is the best I've heard. It's like the 'least bad option' for naming those. "It's not rocket surgery" 😆
a lot of tabs etc have CM7 as c minor 7 so using maj is a lot better imo, havent seen anyone do Cmin7 either so CM is still c minor. I know its the capitalization technically changes it but doesnt help when others dont know that
I believe the convention for "7" chord to indicate a dominate chord goes back 100's of years to figured bass notation. It wasn't rare to have chords built from 4 stacked thirds, but in general, the only time you'd literally see the number "7" written above the bass in the notation, was over the 5th scale degree. Other 4 note chords would be represented with other figures, such as 6/5 over the 4th scale degree, which would indicate a minor-7 or half-diminished-7 chord on the 2nd scale degree in major/minor scales respectively. Furthermore, in minor scales the #3 was generally implied when a "7" was written - which in my mind only further strengthens the idea that a "7" chord came to be associated with a dominate voicing regardless of the current key.
Thanks for the comment Andrew! My complete ignorance of classical music and its history is showing through! Thanks for your contribution to the conversation! Very interesting 👍
@@michaelkeithson I'm not that well versed in classical music myself. I came to this understanding after going down a rabbit hole trying to answer the question "'How did people think about harmony before modern ways of thinking?" One fascinating thing that I stumbled into was the tradition of partimenti, a way of teaching music. In that tradition there's a set of rules for how to voice notes of the scale in various scenarios, aka "Rule of the Octave". Through those rules I got a lot of insight into how they thought about harmony. Perhaps not so coincidentally, Jean-Philippe Rameau, who is often credited with invention of how we think about chords today, was supposedly inspired by the "Rule of the Octave".
This is a great followup! For dominant 7 chords I've been thinking about it like "how do I make the G chord pull even harder to C" only difference is the b7 of the mixolydian mode. Same for C how do I make it absolutely sure it's in F, add the Bb to the V chord
Love your content. It really helps me solidify my learning. Question about your C diminished scale. I’ve never heard of diminished scales before so I googled them. I think you made a mistake by playing Db instead of the correct D when you quickly ran through your C diminished scale….. or I’m not understanding something which I hope you can explain. Just wondering. And thanks again for another great video. Love the humour as well.
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying the videos 👍. There are two versions of a diminished scale, the whole/half (which alternates whole steps and half steps) and the half/whole (alternating half steps and whole steps. In my example I was using the C half/whole diminished. Any diminished 7 chord exists in two different diminished scales. Hope that's helpful and not more confusing!
Using the symbols 7, dom7 and m7 would work without inducing any confusion. I suspect the reason why we denote the dominant-7 as 7 without any additional specifier is because they appear much more often than other types of seventh-chords.
Good suggestion. That could work - always calling it dom/dominant 7. I guess depending on what type of music you play depends on the frequency of 7ths. In Jazz, I don't think the dom7 is any more frequent than any other 7. Someone else suggested that we call dom7 '7' is because, historically, in classical music is was typically the only/most common 7th that was ever used. Loving all these suggestions! Thanks for the comment 👍
I've always thought that 7s were named like that because in western classical music, they cared about 7 chords much more than maj7 chords, since in most of that music 7 chords serve an important fuction while maj7s are more of just an odd little extention. If I could choose what they were called in the modern day, I think it would make more sense to write down major 7 chords with a simple 7 and have the other time of 7 chord written as dom7 (short for dominant 7)
You may be right! I have next to no knowledge of western classical music so it could well be an oversight due to my ignorance! Thanks for your comment!
Me coming from a classical theory background, I find it difficult to understand how jazz can add a seventh to the tonic when it is the leading tone. To me that seventh is a suspension that resolves up to the tonic. Thanks Michael
Great video. You can say the same argument about Bb9. Does it a Bb with a nine, or is it a B with a flat nine? I think it is a matter of an historic notation , rather than an analytical explanation why the dominant chord won’t be noted as a b7 chord. Thanks again !
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. It's not quite the same, there is standard/conventional/'correct' way to spell chords with altered extensions. The altered extension always comes after the unaltered chord tones. So a Bb9 means and Bb7 chord with a 9: Bb(R) D(3) F(5) Ab(7) C(9) If you wanted a b9 instead you would write Bb7b9: Bb(R) D(3) F(5) Ab (7) Cb (b9).
The reason that makes sense to me to why we call them 7/maj7 is that is removes the need to analyze the containing key to find out what the notes are. C7 is always the same notes, regardless of what the prevailing key is. If 7 indicated the 7th scale degree it would be ambiguous what note that is unless each chord on the lead sheet came with a diatonic key to refer to.
Consider how we would write out a secondary dominant to the 4 chord for example. It couldn’t be C7 anymore in the tonic key, but it is C7 in the subdominant key!
Hey Andreas! Thanks for the comment! Maybe I'm not understanding correctly but I don't think any analysis is required whichever 7 you're playing. They always contain the same notes regardless of the key. Whenever we see chord tones written such as 6, 9, 11, 13 - they're always the same interval from the root, they're always referenced from a major scale context. The 13 of a C is always an A regardless of whether the chord is a Cmaj13 or C13.
@@michaelkeithson that’s true with our current system. I was speaking to the question I often see which is “why do we need to specify maj7/7 I already know what notes are in a C seventh degree chord”, but that ignores key.
8:35 DON’T say that a “5” chord is the same thing as a “7” chord! That absurdly confusing, not just because dominant 7 chords occur in all sorts of contexts now other than on the dominant, but more importantly because a lot of people, particularly guitarists, use “5” after a chord name to indicate that it consists of JUST the root and the fifth without a third, making it what is also known as a power chord, and neither major nor minor except via contextual implication.
Very clear and helpful, Fanx! One 'usage' that bugs me, though... Consider: In the key of C Major. We're playing diatonic chords from the C Major scale.. so C, G, Em, etc.. Then there'll be a tune that uses a C7 and people will call that chord 'the dominant' or 'dominant 7th'. Now, I can understand that nomenclature if we were in the key of F Major... the 'dominant' of F Major is C ... hence, C7 would be a 'dominant 7th' in that case... but how can that chord be called a 'dominant' (or 'dominant 7th') in C Major? Is it simply a 'lazy'(?), inaccurate usage of the word 'dominant'? ...or is it that someone sees a '7' in the chord symbol and hence, just calls it a 'dominant'..?
Hey Ciaran, did you see my recent video about chord numbers? Does that answer some of your questions are were you thinking of something more specific? There is definitely more I could talk about when it comes to extensions though!
@michaelkeithson I was thinking more so if I was writing a tune when/where/how to use these extensions, for example am I subbing out the 7 for the extended chord? Just their general application really.Apologies if that's too basic a question. Thanks for all your hard work!
@@ciaranmcgeough Ah ok. It's difficult to say because some of it will be subjective and some will be stylistic. In music styles such as jazz, rnb, soul, gospel, funk most chords will feature extensions whereas is something like Country or Folk wouldn't typically use extensions and may well sound out of place in those environments. Within the styles that do use lots of extensions you'll typically, most often see/hear these extensions on the specific chord types: Maj7 chords = maj9 m7 = 11 7 = 13
@@michaelkeithson ah ok I see that makes sense thanks for the clarification! If you have more topics on extensions It would be cool to hear your thoughts in future videos for sure!
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this. It really depends a lot on what style of music you're playing. Sevenths are used on nearly every chord in a jazz context but used rarely in other styles. So it's a balanced between your own style and being appropriate for the setting. They're a tool to add a certain extra colour to your chords so it depends on if that extra colour is required in the environment you're working. Hope that helps!
"Dominant" 7 chords are very common in jazz, even when they are not acting out a V-I cadence. The most common chord type will typically evolve to get the simplest label - the G7 in this case. The less common Major 7th chords then require the distinction "maj" (or whatever - actually in US published music, the CM7 is more common, despite your issue with CM7 vs Cm7).
@@michaelkeithson That's a major (no pun intended) problem with music theory in that there are too many instances of non-standard practice, so you have to teach 3-4 different ways of doing or showing the same thing. I rarely see a triangle to show major 7th chords, for example, but I know that in some areas and in some music styles, it's fairly common. "Maj" and "min" are fine, but they tend to lose out to brevity if you are the one writing stuff out with quill and ink :)
@@michaelkeithson That's a major (no pun intended) problem with music theory in that there are too many instances of non-standard practice, so you have to teach 3-4 different ways of doing or showing the same thing. I rarely see a triangle to show major 7th chords, for example, but I know that in some areas and in some music styles, it's fairly common. "Maj" and "min" are fine, but they tend to lose out to brevity if you are the one writing stuff out with quill and ink :)
@@nannyg666 Yeah, definitely. Every lesson seems to involve having to say "but you might also see it written/called this..." Unfortunately the whole of music polluted with such a variety (and plenty of mistakes in my opinion) of spellings and interpretations because of the way that 'modern music' is learned and taught. What can you do?!
You mention that minor major 7 is diatonic to the melodic and harmonic minor scale. I have always tough that the melodic and harmonic scale is not diatonic scales. I think of a diatonic scale as a 7 note scale with 5 whole steps and 2 half steps where the semi tones are placed as far apart as possible. So how can a minor major 7 chord be diatonic to the melodic minor scale, or anything else? Please correct me if am wrong, as I am only here to learn. Don’t want to come across as picky, just got very curious 😊 Great content by the way. Always something new and interesting to learn. Thank you!
Thanks Hans! You may well be right and may well have used the word 'diatonic' incorrectly. I understood the word to have become a synonym for 'belonging to a key' and that's how I was intending to use it to make my point that m(maj7) chords exist natively within those minor keys. I'll forever be more careful with how I use the word and will make sure I understand it properly! Thanks for keeping me in check
what are your thoughts on isomorphic keyboards? It seems like a potential boon for keyboardists, yet it is rarely seen. Whenever I see a piano player showing chords with upper extensions it seems like a lot of effort to locate where the notes are. With isomorphism, guitarists typically think in shapes, and often don't learn how to read at all. All you do is locate the root, build a shape regardless of key, allocate your fingers and off you go. It seems like being able to do with with greater polyphony and range would be a hoot.
Thanks for the question, although I have disappointing answer. I have no thoughts on isomorphic keyboards, I've never played one and haven't ever really thought about them so I can't really contribute to the conversation. I'd be happy to explore one if I ever got the chance to but it's not something I've ever given any time to. Sorry 😬
@@michaelkeithson your response was not unexpected. The other response I had in mind was "go away, now". With a hex pattern you have more than a few options for arrangement of intervals. The potential is for lack of better term, bonkers.
15:33 is very confusing to a young learner, especially with your graphic. C fully diminished is simply a series of minor 3rds stacked. C, Eb, Gb (NOT F#) and Bbb (not A). I get that a well-trained piano player might "think" F# and A to be more conventional with this less common chord, but to a theory student, this makes no sense. Stick with stacked minor 3rds.
Summary from the THIRD of every 7th chord: Remember the "Third" is either a Major or Minor above the Root.... DEPENDING on the Quality of Triad. C7 = Root + Diminished Triad CMa7= Root + Minor Triad Cmi7= Root + Major Triad CmiMa7= Root + Augmented Triad Cmi7b5= Root + Minor Triad C diminished 7 = Root + Dim Triad
It really would make much more sense for “7” after the name of a major chord to indicate the addition of a MAJOR 7 to that chord, as it’s the kind of seventh that naturally occurs in the major scale, and for the inclusion of a MINOR 7 in a major chord to be the one that needs specifying, either by “dom7” or “major/minor seven” (perhaps abbreviated as “Mm7”) I’m not actually advocating for a change, btw. It just is what it is now. But if you could go back in time and fix the history of the development of music terminology to result in something more sensible, this would be a good place to start. I think another reason it has ended up the way it is (in addition to the ones you speculated about) is simply that these chord symbols have emerged, or at least become commonplace, entirely within the world of twentieth century popular music, which (whether you’re talking about twenties jazz or eighties rock, and everything in between) is all fundamentally rooted in the blues, where major chords with minor sevenths added to them are basically the default kind of chord, occurring on any and every degree of the scale. Major seven chords, by contrast, are pretty much completely alien to the blues. You can see how, in that context, it makes sense for the major seven to be the one that needs specifying.
Thanks for the comment and contribution to the conversation. Yes, I think some of this is rooted in centuries old classical music where a dom7 was the only frequently used 7 chord.
can you teach us how to write our own chord progressions, i know all these fancy chords now but am limited what to do, i know almost all the chords now even weird voicings i'm just kinda dumb about making chord progressions.. no more 2-5-1 pls omg lolol. i need to know like how ppl liike hanz zimmer do their chord progressions. more stuff like that
Not really. The 'correct' convention of a naming is that when you have an altered extension it always comes after the unaltered chord tones. So an Eb9 means Eb(R) G(3) Bb(5) Db(7) F(9) - If you wanted a b9 instead you would write Eb7b9, Eb(R) G(3) Bb(5) Db (7) Fb (b9).
Yes, I'll agree to that pesky CM7 symbol. I tell the kiddies we gotta say Dominant7 or Major7, and then describe how that tritone throws its weight around. Also the triangles and -minus signs. "Mr. M, since we start with C so much, why didn't they call it A?" ... Thank you for accommodating us Yanks. I rekin' we had to rename the wheel, pounds, inches, miles, and half-steps. I come here for the chill vibe and humor as much as for the vernacular!
I'm not qualified to say if this is the "best" musical education there is, but it's my favorite (besides my middle school drum teacher, but calling drumming music? Ehh...)
query, good sir, every time I use the 5 chord on the guitar as a dom7, it sounds like absolute rubbish. Even if I just play a dom7 by itself, it sounds wretched on a guitar. Is that a "me" thing...cause I think the dom7 on a piano is gorgeous.
That's a difficult one to answer. It does sound a bit like a 'you' problem. Maybe it's the voicing you're using or maybe it's the style of music you're playing. In certain styles a 7 chord will stick out like a sore thumb and in some styles the absence of a 7th is frowned upon. Sorry I can't be more helpful!
Could’ve easily solved by making an actual notation for dominant tbh. Cdom7 for example, so every major chord with a minor seventh is notated this way. Would’ve made it much easier for beginners, if C7 or C9 consisted a major 7th, rather than a minor 7th. Now is too late though..
Easier? No. In any standard major or minor key, there are seven 7th chords. Two of those 7 are major 7th (in a major key, the 1 and 4 chords); the remaining 5 are ALL variations of flat 7 - three minor 7 chords, one dominant 7 chord, and one half-diminished 7. So it makes perfect sense to have "7th" mean the normal, common flat 7 and only ad the "maj" modifier to the two exceptions to the usual rule. Additionally, outside a handful of genres (mainly jazz or jazz-influenced), the dominant 7th is far more often used than major 7ths. In short, the convention is a good one.
@ yeah I know there are more minor 7th in the conventional modes, since there are only two half steps in the keys, but what I meant was the agreement to call non-seventh major keys with the root notes. Also, major chords with added notes are still using this naming. C add(2), C add(9), etc. There is only one dominant chord in major modes, but it adds unnecessary complexity. If we had just called it dom7, dom9, etc, you’d still know that min7 is a flat7, so nothing changes except for dominant V chords.
Loving the conversation here. I think you both make good points. I'm pretty happy with the convention but mostly because I learned it years ago and I know what the deal is but I do see confusion arise mostly because all the other chord numbers we see and use (6, 9, 11, 13) are major scale tones - not flattened. So people assume that adding a 7th should follow the same path! Or maybe we've got it wrong and we should be thinking about it as Mixolydian scale tones?!?
13:56 I would disagree. The maj is telling you that it's a major triad AND a major 7th. To be anything else would require a very different label. Similarly, the min label is telling you that it's a minor triad AND and minor 7th. Both labels can then be interpreted the same way. No need to to do mental gymnastics here.
Interesting! I'd never thought of it like that. I guess my interpretation came because typically with a major triad it's typically written with just one element: 'C'. So adding a major 7 adds two extra elements to chord symbol. And Minor triads are typically written with two elements: 'Cm'. So adding a 7 only adds one extra element.
@@michaelkeithson Fair point regarding "C" implying C Major, but I think that's just another case of the most common thing getting the simplest or most streamlined abbreviation.
I wonder who and why introduced all these different ways to name a chord. It is so confusing. I thought music was an universal languages and I discovered it's full of dialects.
this is the go to channel for showing people theory you are really building something great here thank you so much
🙏 Thanks Isaiah! I really appreciate the generous comment.
@@michaelkeithsonI couldn’t agree more. Really enjoying these videos.
@@jkennan ☺ Thanks, that's nice to hear!
On top of that, the editing is so slick. Such a dedicated professional. A delight, every time. Thanks again
🙏 Thank you, I appreciate the kind words. Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Excellent! I needed this. As a fake book player, I’ve played a lot of standards for years with zero understanding. You are a gap filler! This is jazz gold. Thanks!!
👍 Glad it was useful
I am a novice guitarist and this video is of great help. I can visualise and adapt the content to align the scale to the fretboard. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful 👍
Excellent teacher. You actually explain things rather than reading out what you've been told or read and place into its appropriate context.
You also show humility in admitting that you aren't 100% sure why the standard notation has evolved as it has.
I find music theory is often over complex to describe what is simply relationships and combinations of intervals of notes.
We need music theory to communicate ideas in the same way that we use language to communicate objects, feelings, events and so on and language is often more complex than it needs to be.
🙏 Thanks for the great comment. Yeah, from what I understand English can be a difficult language to learn and we certainly do things that maybe over complicate things!
Very well and patiently explained! I've been forever confused by these details. Thank you.
Glad it was useful 👍
U are you by far the best teacher to understand theory and the simplicity of showing to understand. AWESOME
Ah, thanks Stanley 🙏 Really appreciate the kind words and encouragement ☺️
You are a Master. Everything I have seen in your channel clarifies my understanding, each and every time. Tks.
🙏 Thanks for the nice comment. Glad the videos are useful for you 👍
I didn't need this lesson but watched nonetheless because I enjoy the presentation of your content. So, thank you
EDIT: you taught me something even though I already fully understand all the 7 chords! The reasoning for why, makes perfect sense and I believe you're absolutely correct
MK, your explanations are so mind opening. Even if I don’t want to understand, your understanding says “no you must understand ”😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂 Thanks for the kind comment man, glad you’re enjoying the content!
Thoroughly !!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, Michael. Excellent.
Internet surely got everything for everyone! I was just looking into this yesterday and there you are! Fresh video about the topic.
I think it’s too late, algorithm got us all figured out. For better or worse.. lol
Ha! 😂 Hopefully this helped with some of your questions!
This is music theory done in an entertaining way with practical applications built right in. Definitely the best music theory channel on TH-cam. Keep it up! You’re going places.
🙏 Thanks Ryan! I really appreciate the generous comment. Glad you're enjoying the videos 👍🎹
this is probably a video i will re-watch many times. this is a very good vid
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it 👍
You nailed it with the Cmaj7 and Cm7 examples. However it can be helpful to remember that "maj" only ever applies to the 7, and "m" only ever applies to the 3rd. Notationally, the "default" 7 is the dominant, so when you want the major 7 you specify with "maj", because "7" by itself means dominant 7. Similarly the "default" third is major, so when you want minor you specify with "m". That's why a C minor with a major 7 is written as "CmM7" or "Cm(maj7)" or similar: you are specifying that you want the "non-default" 3rd and 7. As a rule, you can just remember that the dominant 7 is also the "default" chord, being both major and a dominant 7. That's how I think of it anyway. Finally, the default 5th is the regular 5th, and dim moves it down, aug moves it up.
edit: The diminished 7 is easy to remember too because it only appears in the fully diminished 7 chord. This makes sense too, because if the 5th wasn't diminished, you'd just call it a 6th chord, because the diminished 7 is the 6th: It's A in the key of C for example.
Cheers for the comment. Appreciate the contribution to the conversation 👍
Thank you, Michael. Great explanation.
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Very nice and elegant (if I may say so) explanation. Thank you so much!
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funny how i keep getting questions and you literally keep answering them real time during the video xdd you seem so intelligent but nice. Thank you for making these ❤ (was questioning why not name major just C7 xdd)
Ha! Hopefully I didn't leave any other questions on the table!
I've had a few interesting comments from people with other thoughts/arguments for why major 7 chords aren't just called 7 chords.
Fantastic channel. A joy to watch. I am a guitarist but seeing this stuff on the piano is really enlightening.
🙏🙏 Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it and found it useful!
Cmaj7 - the 3 and 7 are both major; Dm7 - the 3 and 7 are both minor; G7 - the 3 is major but the 7 is minor ... right?
Spot on! 👍🎵
been learning music theory with the help of the internet and youtube and lately your videos. And after breaking my head while thinking about this I explained that naming convention to myself with the same reasoning. While it is confusing to people learning it, once you think this through it is actually to avoid confusion and makes sense.
To give you yet another name, in german we name the V7 chord Dominantseptakkord. :)
Thanks for your comment! Dominantseptakkord has a nice ring to it! Although a bit of a mouthful!
Nice, also what i needed, just in time, your channel is great man, have a good one!
🙏 Thanks! Always here to provide just what you need, just when you need it! 😉
Thanks for sharing! The diminished double flat 7 was new to me.
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New subscriber here Michael. If I had the knowledge and the talent, this is EXACTLY the kind of music-related content that I'd produce . . . thanks for relieving me of that arduous task! 😉
Thanks Patrick!! Glad you’re in tune with what I’m doing. Thanks for the support 🙏
@@michaelkeithson Out of curiosity, where in the world are you located?
@@patrickfitzgerald2861 I live in a little village in the East Midlands, UK.
@@michaelkeithson I'll bet it's lovely. I'm a bit of an Anglophile myself, but I avoid the big cities. Anyhow, Happy New Year from sunny southern California!
@@patrickfitzgerald2861 It is very nice but I'm also a big fan of SoCal!
At last it makes sense to me. Thankyou!
the first time I understood this topic! thanks for this amazing content !!
Ah, perfect! Glad it was helpful. Thanks for the comment 👍
The most inscrutable thing about learning music theory is the language. So many terms that stumble over each other.
Hey Ben! Yeah, but I guess most languages have their idiosyncracies and complexities, I know English sure does!
This was such a good lesson, thank you🙏🏽
Yeah I loved this channel when music theory, keep making more videos and more basic stuff but in depth
You should do a video on diminished scales!
Hey man, thanks for the comment. I have done a separate video about diminished chords and I do cover some scale theory in there too I think: th-cam.com/video/VPZjtoJemuY/w-d-xo.html
Great content as usual. Thanks for the hard work. When I first studied music back in the mid to late 1960s, I was taught that it was called a dominant 7th because it was used more often. That made sense to me at the time because a lot of musicians were playing country music. However, once I ventured out into rock, etc. I seen this was not the case. Your explanation makes more sense.
Hey Mark, thanks for the comment.
I do believe that prior to more modern music styles the dom7 was significantly more commonly used than any other 7. Maybe that's where they got the name 'Dominant' - which came first?! I don't know
You can also use C13 or C9 chords, which belong to the dominant seventh family. If they were major seventh chords, they would be notated as Cmaj9 or Cmaj13. Music theory can be confusing, but it all makes sense when you realize that every piece is connected like a puzzle. Great video as always 😊
Thank you for the brilliant video, keep it up! Subscribed
🙏 Thanks for the kind comment and the sub, much appreciated!
thank you!
You are very great. Thank you
☺️☺️🙏
Great video , nice and clear, thanks!
Outstanding!
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I highly encourage you to build an online music theory curriculum, I and countless others will buy it instantly.
Amazing content, music theory demystified.
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying the content.
That's the goal for 2025, to release a some courses. Thanks for the encouragement!
Love your style
Thanks! 🙏
Thoroughly explained, and fun along the way as usual. Thanks! (I'm not sure I can promise to never use 'CM7'. It's just so nice and small. I see the problem, though: CM7 Cm7... too easy to misread.) Your theory on why we don't call it flat 7 and the maj7 just 7 is the best I've heard. It's like the 'least bad option' for naming those. "It's not rocket surgery" 😆
a lot of tabs etc have CM7 as c minor 7 so using maj is a lot better imo, havent seen anyone do Cmin7 either so CM is still c minor. I know its the capitalization technically changes it but doesnt help when others dont know that
Ha! Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it 👍
I believe the convention for "7" chord to indicate a dominate chord goes back 100's of years to figured bass notation. It wasn't rare to have chords built from 4 stacked thirds, but in general, the only time you'd literally see the number "7" written above the bass in the notation, was over the 5th scale degree. Other 4 note chords would be represented with other figures, such as 6/5 over the 4th scale degree, which would indicate a minor-7 or half-diminished-7 chord on the 2nd scale degree in major/minor scales respectively. Furthermore, in minor scales the #3 was generally implied when a "7" was written - which in my mind only further strengthens the idea that a "7" chord came to be associated with a dominate voicing regardless of the current key.
Thanks for the comment Andrew! My complete ignorance of classical music and its history is showing through! Thanks for your contribution to the conversation! Very interesting 👍
@@michaelkeithson I'm not that well versed in classical music myself. I came to this understanding after going down a rabbit hole trying to answer the question "'How did people think about harmony before modern ways of thinking?" One fascinating thing that I stumbled into was the tradition of partimenti, a way of teaching music. In that tradition there's a set of rules for how to voice notes of the scale in various scenarios, aka "Rule of the Octave". Through those rules I got a lot of insight into how they thought about harmony. Perhaps not so coincidentally, Jean-Philippe Rameau, who is often credited with invention of how we think about chords today, was supposedly inspired by the "Rule of the Octave".
@@andrewmccann3379 Oooh! Sounds interesting! Maybe I should explore a little! Thanks for sharing Andrew 👍
This is a great followup!
For dominant 7 chords I've been thinking about it like "how do I make the G chord pull even harder to C" only difference is the b7 of the mixolydian mode. Same for C how do I make it absolutely sure it's in F, add the Bb to the V chord
Nice! Thanks for the comment 👍
Love your content. It really helps me solidify my learning.
Question about your C diminished scale. I’ve never heard of diminished scales before so I googled them. I think you made a mistake by playing Db instead of the correct D when you quickly ran through your C diminished scale….. or I’m not understanding something which I hope you can explain. Just wondering. And thanks again for another great video. Love the humour as well.
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying the videos 👍.
There are two versions of a diminished scale, the whole/half (which alternates whole steps and half steps) and the half/whole (alternating half steps and whole steps. In my example I was using the C half/whole diminished. Any diminished 7 chord exists in two different diminished scales.
Hope that's helpful and not more confusing!
@@michaelkeithsonWow, I did not know that. Very interesting, and many thanks.
Babe wake u michael keithson just dropped 😍😍
🤣😂☺️
Eb7+, Eb7-. Boom. outstanding explanation as usual, btw.
Thanks Rodrigo!
But the '+' means something else in chord symbols, so that wouldn't work 😔
@@michaelkeithson , you're right. 😩
Merci.
ROCKET SURGERY, one of my favorites
😜
Using the symbols 7, dom7 and m7 would work without inducing any confusion. I suspect the reason why we denote the dominant-7 as 7 without any additional specifier is because they appear much more often than other types of seventh-chords.
Good suggestion. That could work - always calling it dom/dominant 7.
I guess depending on what type of music you play depends on the frequency of 7ths. In Jazz, I don't think the dom7 is any more frequent than any other 7.
Someone else suggested that we call dom7 '7' is because, historically, in classical music is was typically the only/most common 7th that was ever used.
Loving all these suggestions! Thanks for the comment 👍
I've always thought that 7s were named like that because in western classical music, they cared about 7 chords much more than maj7 chords, since in most of that music 7 chords serve an important fuction while maj7s are more of just an odd little extention. If I could choose what they were called in the modern day, I think it would make more sense to write down major 7 chords with a simple 7 and have the other time of 7 chord written as dom7 (short for dominant 7)
You may be right! I have next to no knowledge of western classical music so it could well be an oversight due to my ignorance! Thanks for your comment!
Me coming from a classical theory background, I find it difficult to understand how jazz can add a seventh to the tonic when it is the leading tone. To me that seventh is a suspension that resolves up to the tonic. Thanks Michael
Jazz is all about "unresolved" dissonances. Dissonances are essentially not dissonance at all, but "color".
Great video. You can say the same argument about Bb9. Does it a Bb with a nine, or is it a B with a flat nine? I think it is a matter of an historic notation , rather than an analytical explanation why the dominant chord won’t be noted as a b7 chord. Thanks again !
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
It's not quite the same, there is standard/conventional/'correct' way to spell chords with altered extensions. The altered extension always comes after the unaltered chord tones.
So a Bb9 means and Bb7 chord with a 9: Bb(R) D(3) F(5) Ab(7) C(9)
If you wanted a b9 instead you would write Bb7b9: Bb(R) D(3) F(5) Ab (7) Cb (b9).
Hey Michael can you do a video on sixth chords and their best uses
Thanks for the suggestion. Good shout 👍
The reason that makes sense to me to why we call them 7/maj7 is that is removes the need to analyze the containing key to find out what the notes are. C7 is always the same notes, regardless of what the prevailing key is. If 7 indicated the 7th scale degree it would be ambiguous what note that is unless each chord on the lead sheet came with a diatonic key to refer to.
Consider how we would write out a secondary dominant to the 4 chord for example. It couldn’t be C7 anymore in the tonic key, but it is C7 in the subdominant key!
Hey Andreas! Thanks for the comment!
Maybe I'm not understanding correctly but I don't think any analysis is required whichever 7 you're playing. They always contain the same notes regardless of the key. Whenever we see chord tones written such as 6, 9, 11, 13 - they're always the same interval from the root, they're always referenced from a major scale context. The 13 of a C is always an A regardless of whether the chord is a Cmaj13 or C13.
@@michaelkeithson that’s true with our current system. I was speaking to the question I often see which is “why do we need to specify maj7/7 I already know what notes are in a C seventh degree chord”, but that ignores key.
Nice.
8:35 DON’T say that a “5” chord is the same thing as a “7” chord! That absurdly confusing, not just because dominant 7 chords occur in all sorts of contexts now other than on the dominant, but more importantly because a lot of people, particularly guitarists, use “5” after a chord name to indicate that it consists of JUST the root and the fifth without a third, making it what is also known as a power chord, and neither major nor minor except via contextual implication.
Very clear and helpful, Fanx!
One 'usage' that bugs me, though... Consider: In the key of C Major. We're playing diatonic chords from the C Major scale.. so C, G, Em, etc.. Then there'll be a tune that uses a C7 and people will call that chord 'the dominant' or 'dominant 7th'.
Now, I can understand that nomenclature if we were in the key of F Major... the 'dominant' of F Major is C ... hence, C7 would be a 'dominant 7th' in that case... but how can that chord be called a 'dominant' (or 'dominant 7th') in C Major? Is it simply a 'lazy'(?), inaccurate usage of the word 'dominant'? ...or is it that someone sees a '7' in the chord symbol and hence, just calls it a 'dominant'..?
Can you do clip explain about upper structure triad and how jazz pianist use this to build a chord
Mischief managed. :) Our system would be less ambiguous if we always wrote "scale degree plus modifier," such as Em7Maj (instead of writing EmMaj7).
Now we've just got to convince everyone to start doing it! 😂
Hey man great content as always any chance we could get a video explaining the upper extension 9,11,13 ect?
Hey Ciaran, did you see my recent video about chord numbers? Does that answer some of your questions are were you thinking of something more specific? There is definitely more I could talk about when it comes to extensions though!
@michaelkeithson I was thinking more so if I was writing a tune when/where/how to use these extensions, for example am I subbing out the 7 for the extended chord? Just their general application really.Apologies if that's too basic a question. Thanks for all your hard work!
@@ciaranmcgeough Ah ok. It's difficult to say because some of it will be subjective and some will be stylistic. In music styles such as jazz, rnb, soul, gospel, funk most chords will feature extensions whereas is something like Country or Folk wouldn't typically use extensions and may well sound out of place in those environments.
Within the styles that do use lots of extensions you'll typically, most often see/hear these extensions on the specific chord types:
Maj7 chords = maj9
m7 = 11
7 = 13
@@michaelkeithson ah ok I see that makes sense thanks for the clarification! If you have more topics on extensions It would be cool to hear your thoughts in future videos for sure!
Thank you. I want to ask when you apply 7 chord and when to play triad chord. Thanks
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this. It really depends a lot on what style of music you're playing. Sevenths are used on nearly every chord in a jazz context but used rarely in other styles. So it's a balanced between your own style and being appropriate for the setting. They're a tool to add a certain extra colour to your chords so it depends on if that extra colour is required in the environment you're working.
Hope that helps!
@ thanks.
It's not rocket surgery!
😜
"Dominant" 7 chords are very common in jazz, even when they are not acting out a V-I cadence. The most common chord type will typically evolve to get the simplest label - the G7 in this case. The less common Major 7th chords then require the distinction "maj" (or whatever - actually in US published music, the CM7 is more common, despite your issue with CM7 vs Cm7).
I wasn't aware that the US use CM7. Not very common over and don't see it often used on TH-cam either.
@@michaelkeithson That's a major (no pun intended) problem with music theory in that there are too many instances of non-standard practice, so you have to teach 3-4 different ways of doing or showing the same thing. I rarely see a triangle to show major 7th chords, for example, but I know that in some areas and in some music styles, it's fairly common. "Maj" and "min" are fine, but they tend to lose out to brevity if you are the one writing stuff out with quill and ink :)
@@michaelkeithson That's a major (no pun intended) problem with music theory in that there are too many instances of non-standard practice, so you have to teach 3-4 different ways of doing or showing the same thing. I rarely see a triangle to show major 7th chords, for example, but I know that in some areas and in some music styles, it's fairly common. "Maj" and "min" are fine, but they tend to lose out to brevity if you are the one writing stuff out with quill and ink :)
@@nannyg666 Yeah, definitely. Every lesson seems to involve having to say "but you might also see it written/called this..."
Unfortunately the whole of music polluted with such a variety (and plenty of mistakes in my opinion) of spellings and interpretations because of the way that 'modern music' is learned and taught. What can you do?!
You mention that minor major 7 is diatonic to the melodic and harmonic minor scale. I have always tough that the melodic and harmonic scale is not diatonic scales. I think of a diatonic scale as a 7 note scale with 5 whole steps and 2 half steps where the semi tones are placed as far apart as possible. So how can a minor major 7 chord be diatonic to the melodic minor scale, or anything else?
Please correct me if am wrong, as I am only here to learn. Don’t want to come across as picky, just got very curious 😊
Great content by the way. Always something new and interesting to learn. Thank you!
Thanks Hans! You may well be right and may well have used the word 'diatonic' incorrectly. I understood the word to have become a synonym for 'belonging to a key' and that's how I was intending to use it to make my point that m(maj7) chords exist natively within those minor keys.
I'll forever be more careful with how I use the word and will make sure I understand it properly! Thanks for keeping me in check
what are your thoughts on isomorphic keyboards? It seems like a potential boon for keyboardists, yet it is rarely seen. Whenever I see a piano player showing chords with upper extensions it seems like a lot of effort to locate where the notes are. With isomorphism, guitarists typically think in shapes, and often don't learn how to read at all. All you do is locate the root, build a shape regardless of key, allocate your fingers and off you go. It seems like being able to do with with greater polyphony and range would be a hoot.
Thanks for the question, although I have disappointing answer. I have no thoughts on isomorphic keyboards, I've never played one and haven't ever really thought about them so I can't really contribute to the conversation. I'd be happy to explore one if I ever got the chance to but it's not something I've ever given any time to. Sorry 😬
@@michaelkeithson your response was not unexpected. The other response I had in mind was "go away, now". With a hex pattern you have more than a few options for arrangement of intervals. The potential is for lack of better term, bonkers.
If we consistently wrote all the flats and sharps as prefixes, like bE, then there would be no confusion between bEb7 and bE7!
or Cm7 and Cmb7
Good call, now we just have to get everyone on the same page 😬
15:33 is very confusing to a young learner, especially with your graphic. C fully diminished is simply a series of minor 3rds stacked. C, Eb, Gb (NOT F#) and Bbb (not A). I get that a well-trained piano player might "think" F# and A to be more conventional with this less common chord, but to a theory student, this makes no sense. Stick with stacked minor 3rds.
Summary from the THIRD of every 7th chord: Remember the "Third" is either a Major or Minor above the Root.... DEPENDING on the Quality of Triad.
C7 = Root + Diminished Triad
CMa7= Root + Minor Triad
Cmi7= Root + Major Triad
CmiMa7= Root + Augmented Triad
Cmi7b5= Root + Minor Triad
C diminished 7 = Root + Dim Triad
Interesting way to think about 7ths! Not heard anyone talk about them like this. Thanks for the contribution! 👍
It really would make much more sense for “7” after the name of a major chord to indicate the addition of a MAJOR 7 to that chord, as it’s the kind of seventh that naturally occurs in the major scale, and for the inclusion of a MINOR 7 in a major chord to be the one that needs specifying, either by “dom7” or “major/minor seven” (perhaps abbreviated as “Mm7”)
I’m not actually advocating for a change, btw. It just is what it is now. But if you could go back in time and fix the history of the development of music terminology to result in something more sensible, this would be a good place to start.
I think another reason it has ended up the way it is (in addition to the ones you speculated about) is simply that these chord symbols have emerged, or at least become commonplace, entirely within the world of twentieth century popular music, which (whether you’re talking about twenties jazz or eighties rock, and everything in between) is all fundamentally rooted in the blues, where major chords with minor sevenths added to them are basically the default kind of chord, occurring on any and every degree of the scale. Major seven chords, by contrast, are pretty much completely alien to the blues. You can see how, in that context, it makes sense for the major seven to be the one that needs specifying.
Thanks for the comment and contribution to the conversation. Yes, I think some of this is rooted in centuries old classical music where a dom7 was the only frequently used 7 chord.
It could be written as the flat symbol is after the 7 like C7b or maybe Cmaj m7. Just saying, I don't read music so don't blame me for this.. 😅
Could someone please create a music terminology for us engineers? 🙏
can you teach us how to write our own chord progressions, i know all these fancy chords now but am limited what to do, i know almost all the chords now even weird voicings i'm just kinda dumb about making chord progressions.. no more 2-5-1 pls omg lolol. i need to know like how ppl liike hanz zimmer do their chord progressions. more stuff like that
Wouldn’t you run into the same problem with an Eb9?
Not really. The 'correct' convention of a naming is that when you have an altered extension it always comes after the unaltered chord tones.
So an Eb9 means Eb(R) G(3) Bb(5) Db(7) F(9) - If you wanted a b9 instead you would write Eb7b9, Eb(R) G(3) Bb(5) Db (7) Fb (b9).
Yes, I'll agree to that pesky CM7 symbol.
I tell the kiddies we gotta say Dominant7 or Major7, and then describe how that tritone throws its weight around. Also the triangles and -minus signs. "Mr. M, since we start with C so much, why didn't they call it A?" ...
Thank you for accommodating us Yanks. I rekin' we had to rename the wheel, pounds, inches, miles, and half-steps. I come here for the chill vibe and humor as much as for the vernacular!
Ha! Thanks. Cheers for the comment 👍
I'm not qualified to say if this is the "best" musical education there is, but it's my favorite (besides my middle school drum teacher, but calling drumming music? Ehh...)
☺️ Thanks Justen. Really appreciate you're generous comment 🙏 A very happy new year to you!
Maj and Min 7ths, 9ths, and 13ths. Dream chords. Where beauty lies. This needs more investigation.
Don’t forget 11ths
@@AtomizedSound - Indeed!
query, good sir, every time I use the 5 chord on the guitar as a dom7, it sounds like absolute rubbish. Even if I just play a dom7 by itself, it sounds wretched on a guitar. Is that a "me" thing...cause I think the dom7 on a piano is gorgeous.
That's a difficult one to answer. It does sound a bit like a 'you' problem. Maybe it's the voicing you're using or maybe it's the style of music you're playing. In certain styles a 7 chord will stick out like a sore thumb and in some styles the absence of a 7th is frowned upon.
Sorry I can't be more helpful!
…”It’s not rocket surgery” 🤣
😜
I'm in seventh heaven! OK I'll get me coat. :)
Oh dear 😅
Its not Rocket Surgery 🤣🤣
😜
Could’ve easily solved by making an actual notation for dominant tbh. Cdom7 for example, so every major chord with a minor seventh is notated this way. Would’ve made it much easier for beginners, if C7 or C9 consisted a major 7th, rather than a minor 7th. Now is too late though..
Easier? No. In any standard major or minor key, there are seven 7th chords. Two of those 7 are major 7th (in a major key, the 1 and 4 chords); the remaining 5 are ALL variations of flat 7 - three minor 7 chords, one dominant 7 chord, and one half-diminished 7. So it makes perfect sense to have "7th" mean the normal, common flat 7 and only ad the "maj" modifier to the two exceptions to the usual rule.
Additionally, outside a handful of genres (mainly jazz or jazz-influenced), the dominant 7th is far more often used than major 7ths. In short, the convention is a good one.
@ yeah I know there are more minor 7th in the conventional modes, since there are only two half steps in the keys, but what I meant was the agreement to call non-seventh major keys with the root notes.
Also, major chords with added notes are still using this naming. C add(2), C add(9), etc.
There is only one dominant chord in major modes, but it adds unnecessary complexity. If we had just called it dom7, dom9, etc, you’d still know that min7 is a flat7, so nothing changes except for dominant V chords.
Loving the conversation here. I think you both make good points. I'm pretty happy with the convention but mostly because I learned it years ago and I know what the deal is but I do see confusion arise mostly because all the other chord numbers we see and use (6, 9, 11, 13) are major scale tones - not flattened. So people assume that adding a 7th should follow the same path!
Or maybe we've got it wrong and we should be thinking about it as Mixolydian scale tones?!?
13:56 I would disagree. The maj is telling you that it's a major triad AND a major 7th. To be anything else would require a very different label. Similarly, the min label is telling you that it's a minor triad AND and minor 7th. Both labels can then be interpreted the same way. No need to to do mental gymnastics here.
Interesting! I'd never thought of it like that. I guess my interpretation came because typically with a major triad it's typically written with just one element: 'C'. So adding a major 7 adds two extra elements to chord symbol. And Minor triads are typically written with two elements: 'Cm'. So adding a 7 only adds one extra element.
@@michaelkeithson Fair point regarding "C" implying C Major, but I think that's just another case of the most common thing getting the simplest or most streamlined abbreviation.
the flaw lies in the position of the adjective. as well as you say B-flat you should say 7-flat and not flat-7.
B flat seven flat - that's a mouthful! Makes sense though! Cheers for the comment 👍
I wonder who and why introduced all these different ways to name a chord. It is so confusing.
I thought music was an universal languages and I discovered it's full of dialects.
Yeah, definitely can be confusing. But I guess like any language, you can learn to understand and speak it without knowing how to write it!
o7
It's brain science