Yes, determinism is absolute!, and and no, there is no moral absolute, but that in no way means that sociopaths don't need to be locked up for the safety of non-sociopaths. (ie: the ReReichlicans and their ilk, and violent crazies of every type)
I am a hard determinist, but we need to be careful about how we describe this to people. I agree that determinism removes the idea of moral responsibility, but the belief in moral responsibility is one of the inputs that goes into the deterministic machine. Beliefs, ideas, fear of punishment, desires, all feed into that machine.
This is exactly what Compatibilists are doing - fooling the public too avoid possible negative effects on society. For them ends justify the means. Truth is not important anymore. We might as well pretend that God exists, since believing in God might also be beneficial for the society.
@@colacoca my comment was made 2 years ago bud... but I still disagree. We influence the deterministic outcome of other's actions. Some of those influences are from our ideas changing their ideas.
@@MrJamesC Consciousness is not a "hard problem." Consciousness is the result of an intricate array of sensory inputs in the body that trigger electrochemical processes which produce "feelings" of everything, including feelings of thoughts and feelings of existence. But it's all just feelings (we are chemical machines). Not only do I not have free will, "I" don't even exist. Everything, including myself, is a social construct.
The only problem with the prison thing though is that having a nice prison cell with luxuries reduces the deterrence of doing a crime, so it could increase the number of crimes (at least by first offenders) as they know the punishment won't be that bad. So it seems you have to balance it correctly to maximize the effectiveness it brings to society.
Jerry showed the stats on that and it appears to be the other way around. 1 in 5 reoffend given nice conditions, almost 4 in 5 reoffend given crappy conditions. (20% recidivism in Norway compared to 77% recidivism in the US)
@@MrJamesC You said they aren't just fairy tales. So they are fairy tales plus something else. I believe the low resolution thinking is accepting preposterous ideas without any evidence. It's pretty silly.
He makes a rather basic point, that we are controlled by the laws of physics. It may be difficult for large segments of the population to imbibe that concept yet it is nevertheless obvious at this point in time. However he moves on from that simple point and shoehorns in his personal ideology as if it naturally follows from his simple premise, that we have no 'free will'.
It does follow from his premise. Trying to hurt and punish those who "make bad choices" is unsuitable because they had no choice but to make that choice. What makes sense is to treat that person for what is causing them to be harmful, not just hit them every time they do something they are doomed to do.
Intro ends at 2:15
We have a criminal justice system because there is a difference between moral responsibility and social responsibility.
thank you for posting...fascinating!
Thanks 👍🏼
Yes, determinism is absolute!, and and no, there is no moral absolute, but that in no way means that sociopaths don't need to be locked up for the safety of non-sociopaths. (ie: the ReReichlicans and their ilk, and violent crazies of every type)
I am a hard determinist, but we need to be careful about how we describe this to people. I agree that determinism removes the idea of moral responsibility, but the belief in moral responsibility is one of the inputs that goes into the deterministic machine. Beliefs, ideas, fear of punishment, desires, all feed into that machine.
This is exactly what Compatibilists are doing - fooling the public too avoid possible negative effects on society. For them ends justify the means. Truth is not important anymore. We might as well pretend that God exists, since believing in God might also be beneficial for the society.
@@Shaewaros You can't even explain consciousness but are so arrogant to say you're telling the truth 😂😂
@@colacoca my comment was made 2 years ago bud... but I still disagree. We influence the deterministic outcome of other's actions. Some of those influences are from our ideas changing their ideas.
@@colacoca you don't get determinism.
@@MrJamesC Consciousness is not a "hard problem." Consciousness is the result of an intricate array of sensory inputs in the body that trigger electrochemical processes which produce "feelings" of everything, including feelings of thoughts and feelings of existence. But it's all just feelings (we are chemical machines). Not only do I not have free will, "I" don't even exist. Everything, including myself, is a social construct.
The only problem with the prison thing though is that having a nice prison cell with luxuries reduces the deterrence of doing a crime, so it could increase the number of crimes (at least by first offenders) as they know the punishment won't be that bad.
So it seems you have to balance it correctly to maximize the effectiveness it brings to society.
Jerry showed the stats on that and it appears to be the other way around. 1 in 5 reoffend given nice conditions, almost 4 in 5 reoffend given crappy conditions. (20% recidivism in Norway compared to 77% recidivism in the US)
Free will is a religious term and therefore a fairy tale.
Religious stories aren't just "fairy tales" - that's just superficial, low resolution thinking
@@MrJamesC They're both
@@MrJamesC You said they aren't just fairy tales. So they are fairy tales plus something else. I believe the low resolution thinking is accepting preposterous ideas without any evidence. It's pretty silly.
He makes a rather basic point, that we are controlled by the laws of physics. It may be difficult for large segments of the population to imbibe that concept yet it is nevertheless obvious at this point in time. However he moves on from that simple point and shoehorns in his personal ideology as if it naturally follows from his simple premise, that we have no 'free will'.
Read a bit more about determinism and how it related to free will. Check Galen Strawson's and Sam Harris' views on free will.
It does follow from his premise. Trying to hurt and punish those who "make bad choices" is unsuitable because they had no choice but to make that choice. What makes sense is to treat that person for what is causing them to be harmful, not just hit them every time they do something they are doomed to do.
@@ManSpidernaternice so I can go and steal now since I can tell myself I was doomed to do it anyways