The W3EDP design is a well regarded antenna. So what about it’s mini (1/4 size) version? A real “slap it up and get on the air antenna.” Connect with my channel by subscribing and commenting.
Well explained Tim, interesting how fashion goes around and comes around, even with antennas. Good to learn the background of this and thanks for making the video. I really enjoy your work on TH-cam. 👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for another good video! FYI the 102' flat top antenna was around for a while before Louis Varney G5RV liked its 20 meter gain and went about figuring out the twin lead matching network to bring its impedance low enough to feed his rig using coax. He also found out it worked on 80m making it a dual band antenna. Both changes helped its popularity and hams named this innovation after him. Through the years the twin lead has been shortened from his original design making it more manageable and able to work on more bands, but the original 102 ft flat top keeps going... Yes, the twin lead on these modified versions of the W3EDP would also act as a matching section as well as part of the radiator, just as it does on its brothers, the Zepp, and the J-Pole. Its people like G5RV, W3EDP... and those like you, who dare to tinker and try things who come up with these innovations. Marconi used several of Tesla's patents to be the first to talk across the pond. Innovation is usually built on the shoulders of those who came before. We all benefit from it. Keep spreading the good word! 73 mike
The 1/4-sized Mini is my favorite for backpacking. With a 17' wire attached to the tuner ground lug and simply draped across the ground, it can tune down to 80m, though of course it is not very efficient there. I've also had good results with a 1/2 size arranged as an inverted V, when time to put it up and weight limits allow. These modern versions of the W3EDP work far better than one might expect at first glance. Thanks for the video.
Thank you for posting this video. What caught my eye was the similarity of the 'Jr' 40-10m version of this antenna to the Chameleon MPAS 2.0 back packable antenna in the vertical config. There you have a (from bottom -> up) a 1' ground spike (support and grounding), a 500watt 5:1 (I believe) unun, then a ~ 21' vertical brass-aluminum vertical pole. Very similar to your 'Jr' config. (minus the ladder line). The MPAS has a wide swr parabolic dip starting at ~ 3 @ 40m, dropping to ~1.5 @ 20m, then rising up to ~3+ at 10m. I've made RBN contacts with Japan, Samoa, NZ, Canary Islands, Uraguay, Alaska & the continental USA. I've had ssb qso's with some of them too. QTH is west coast of Canada. So, it works! 🙂
I have experimented with all 3 sizes. I found that I had better results tuning the JR version on 40 meters with a 9:1 Unun. I have put it up for POTA operations in trees as a Sloper and an "L". Also run the mini and JR as a vertical with my 12 meter Spiderpole. Thanks for the video. It gave me more antennas for my POTA arsenal. 73 , N1XXU.
Thank you Tim, Nearly forgot about this one. I run a kind of version of it, where the radiator is 155.ft, counterpoise (3 separate wires) are around 34". It can do 160 but, not it's best band. also my antenna tuner is at the feedpoint on the antenna.
I need to get a 4:1 unun. I made a version using 17' of 300 ohm ladder and 67 wire, but I only had a 4:1 balun that I connected to my auto atu. Set up like your sketch, ladder line vertical, and wire at about 25'. Keep up the good work.
Hi Tim, thanks for this video. I run a W3EDP as a horizontal LW fed with 17 ft of 450 ohm ladder line and a 1:1 unun. I use a wide range manual ATU so can get away without the 4:1. I use an 84 ft wire length as per the original and believe the feeder does perform as a counterpoise and impedance transformer. Mine works well from 80M to 10M with a definite end effect on 10M down to Africa. The 67ft you picture isn't a W3EDP - it's a half wave Zepp antenna for 40M which was popular in the 1930s until a certain G6CJ debunked it in the Radcom of the day. Back then the antenna was fed straight from the PA coil in the transmitter and the method of feed either made the antenna work or not due to equal and opposite RF current. That was because the amateurs of the day were trying to get a balanced antenna out of an inherently unbalanced one. We don't do that any more and so the W3EDP and its relations, the end fed Zepp and J antenna do work well. 73 and keep up the good work. Lawrence G4GZG.
I still think the best way to assess antenna performance is to put out a cw call on the band of choice, then check the reverse beacon network to see how well you were heard, in a contest everyone is 5&9!
Will a 4 to 1 balun work instead of a 4 to 1 unun? I usually use 15 to 20 feet of RG8 coax from the balun coming on into my Palstar AT1500CV manual roller inductor antenna tuner on my 130 feet 10-80 meter doublet so would that arrangement also work with the W3EDP 84 feet multiband vertical? Very 73 De Cliff, KU4GW.
Hey Cliff. The Balun can work although the unun is designed to transform an unbalanced to unbalanced load such as this or any other random wire antenna
I just rewatched the video, maybe you have since your comment. When Tim is transmitting the radio signal strength meter becomes an SWR meter where you can see the SWR is about 1.5 : 1. Pretty good I would say. 73 Ps. I only knew to look again because I have the same radio - Yaesu FT-891
But why not just use a end fed antenna? No tuning needed, still a compromise, i still use a resonant antenna for portable. But i do not climb mountains haha
A BALUN is used to match the impedance of a balanced load to an unbalanced feed line - such as dipole to coax. An UNUN matches the impedance of an unbalanced load to an unbalanced feed line - such as a long wire to coax.
The only problem with using Germany instead of Golf, is it sounds like a J, of course this assumes people in other countries do not call Germany what we call it and might not know how to spell it. I do wonder sometimes if any contacts have ever written down a J instead of a G and we just never know.
Go portable, do not take an antenna with you. Connect your tuner to what ever pole you find sticking out of the ground, throw out a ground radial, tune up and go. You would be surprised what works!
If I may sir, I believe 100 after the 5x9 meant 100 watts. I've also asked HAM on another youtube video about such numerics after the 5 by 9 and I was told it pertains to the power output. 100, 5 or 6 hundred, some even say kilo meaning 1 kilowatt. I hope this helps.
![[ไฮไลต์] แบดมินตันชาย SHI Yu Qi (จีน) vs วิว กุลวุฒิ (ไทย) รอบ 8 คน | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f7z7taforOM/mqdefault.jpg)
Well explained Tim, interesting how fashion goes around and comes around, even with antennas. Good to learn the background of this and thanks for making the video. I really enjoy your work on TH-cam. 👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you my friend!
Extremely interesting video! Thanks Tim.
Thanks!!
Intriguing! This is something I need try out with my 4:1. I've got some extra 450 Ohm line too. Thanks for sharing!
Go for it Mike!
Thanks for another good video! FYI the 102' flat top antenna was around for a while before Louis Varney G5RV liked its 20 meter gain and went about figuring out the twin lead matching network to bring its impedance low enough to feed his rig using coax. He also found out it worked on 80m making it a dual band antenna. Both changes helped its popularity and hams named this innovation after him. Through the years the twin lead has been shortened from his original design making it more manageable and able to work on more bands, but the original 102 ft flat top keeps going...
Yes, the twin lead on these modified versions of the W3EDP would also act as a matching section as well as part of the radiator, just as it does on its brothers, the Zepp, and the J-Pole.
Its people like G5RV, W3EDP... and those like you, who dare to tinker and try things who come up with these innovations. Marconi used several of Tesla's patents to be the first to talk across the pond. Innovation is usually built on the shoulders of those who came before. We all benefit from it.
Keep spreading the good word! 73 mike
Thank you Mike it’s great fun to tinker 73
The 1/4-sized Mini is my favorite for backpacking. With a 17' wire attached to the tuner ground lug and simply draped across the ground, it can tune down to 80m, though of course it is not very efficient there. I've also had good results with a 1/2 size arranged as an inverted V, when time to put it up and weight limits allow. These modern versions of the W3EDP work far better than one might expect at first glance. Thanks for the video.
Very good example Rob thank you for sharing
Thanks Tim, definitely building these for testing @ POTA activations.
Nice one!
Interesting aerial. Wish I had your knowledge! ☘️👍
Ah thanks Donal
Thank you for posting this video. What caught my eye was the similarity of the 'Jr' 40-10m version of this antenna to the Chameleon MPAS 2.0 back packable antenna in the vertical config. There you have a (from bottom -> up) a 1' ground spike (support and grounding), a 500watt 5:1 (I believe) unun, then a ~ 21' vertical brass-aluminum vertical pole. Very similar to your 'Jr' config. (minus the ladder line).
The MPAS has a wide swr parabolic dip starting at ~ 3 @ 40m, dropping to ~1.5 @ 20m, then rising up to ~3+ at 10m. I've made RBN contacts with Japan, Samoa, NZ, Canary Islands, Uraguay, Alaska & the continental USA. I've had ssb qso's with some of them too. QTH is west coast of Canada.
So, it works! 🙂
Nice comparison!
I have experimented with all 3 sizes. I found that I had better results tuning the JR version on 40 meters with a 9:1 Unun. I have put it up for POTA operations in trees as a Sloper and an "L". Also run the mini and JR as a vertical with my 12 meter Spiderpole. Thanks for the video. It gave me more antennas for my POTA arsenal. 73 , N1XXU.
Great examples!
Definite pipe line into the US east coast that day. The best antenna is the one you have up in the air.
Totally agree
I've seen a similar design from Kevin the old radio guy. It's on my radar to build. Nice video Tim.
Thanks Peter!
Another great video!
Thank you! 73
Thank you Tim, Nearly forgot about this one. I run a kind of version of it, where the radiator is 155.ft, counterpoise (3 separate wires) are around 34". It can do 160 but, not it's best band. also my antenna tuner is at the feedpoint on the antenna.
Tuner at feedpoint is on my to do list
I need to get a 4:1 unun. I made a version using 17' of 300 ohm ladder and 67 wire, but I only had a 4:1 balun that I connected to my auto atu. Set up like your sketch, ladder line vertical, and wire at about 25'. Keep up the good work.
Keep going Jes its great fun!
Hi Tim, thanks for this video. I run a W3EDP as a horizontal LW fed with 17 ft of 450 ohm ladder line and a 1:1 unun. I use a wide range manual ATU so can get away without the 4:1. I use an 84 ft wire length as per the original and believe the feeder does perform as a counterpoise and impedance transformer. Mine works well from 80M to 10M with a definite end effect on 10M down to Africa. The 67ft you picture isn't a W3EDP - it's a half wave Zepp antenna for 40M which was popular in the 1930s until a certain G6CJ debunked it in the Radcom of the day. Back then the antenna was fed straight from the PA coil in the transmitter and the method of feed either made the antenna work or not due to equal and opposite RF current. That was because the amateurs of the day were trying to get a balanced antenna out of an inherently unbalanced one. We don't do that any more and so the W3EDP and its relations, the end fed Zepp and J antenna do work well. 73 and keep up the good work. Lawrence G4GZG.
Great information Lawrence thank you
I just built the Mini, the Junior and the Full size. Looking forward to trying them out this weekend for Field Day.
Do let me know how you got on with these
@@timg5tm941 The Junior worked the best all around.
Build this antenna today, first contact was on 10m with WB0RLJ who was in KFF-4011 in Nebraska. Distance was 7169 km ( 4481 miles).
Fabulous!!
will have to give it a POTA try..thanks
Great!
Ha, you got K3LR !! Yeah, that’s a power station. Nice review of the design. Every example is an education.
Yes he’s a very big gun!!
I need some ladder line NOW! Since all stores are closed for Easter I need to find a fellow ham…
Ah ha!
Make some with just some wire and some home made spacers.
Nice video, could be useful in UK parks where there isn’t loads of space for radials
Good point Dave
good for a low visibility antenna
I agree Chris
I still think the best way to assess antenna performance is to put out a cw call on the band of choice, then check the reverse beacon network to see how well you were heard, in a contest everyone is 5&9!
May I ask, why is it everyone is a 5 by 9 even though not everyone isn't.
@@franciscolopez3229 if everyone is given 5 & 9 there are less logging errors that lead to a drop in points.
@@MrRadiorobot Roger that sir. Thank you and all the best. 73s
Tim, hello. Do you have HOA’s in England? Here in the States we consider them to be evil!
Will a 4 to 1 balun work instead of a 4 to 1 unun? I usually use 15 to 20 feet of RG8 coax from the balun coming on into my Palstar AT1500CV manual roller inductor antenna tuner on my 130 feet 10-80 meter doublet so would that arrangement also work with the W3EDP 84 feet multiband vertical? Very 73 De Cliff, KU4GW.
Hey Cliff. The Balun can work although the unun is designed to transform an unbalanced to unbalanced load such as this or any other random wire antenna
It would be interesting to compare this with a "random" wire and a 9:1. Logic would tell me this is resonant (ish) and should perform better.
I think it’ll be close 👍
Missing was the swr. This gives some indication of the effects at least in my mind.
Was it under 5:1?
I just rewatched the video, maybe you have since your comment. When Tim is transmitting the radio signal strength meter becomes an SWR meter where you can see the SWR is about 1.5 : 1. Pretty good I would say. 73 Ps. I only knew to look again because I have the same radio - Yaesu FT-891
@@tdumnxy that’s very good although suspicious for all bands.
But why not just use a end fed antenna? No tuning needed, still a compromise, i still use a resonant antenna for portable. But i do not climb mountains haha
Interesting . Have very restricted space for antenna in my tiny garden. But what is an unon ? Related to a balun ?
A BALUN is used to match the impedance of a balanced load to an unbalanced feed line - such as dipole to coax. An UNUN matches the impedance of an unbalanced load to an unbalanced feed line - such as a long wire to coax.
Is the ladder line the same for each antenna 450ohms?
Yes 👍
Thanks Tim would of been better if you tried other bands not just 10mtrs.
Keep up the good work tinkering 73.
Yep I had limited time and only 10 and 17 were open in europe at the time
The only problem with using Germany instead of Golf, is it sounds like a J, of course this assumes people in other countries do not call Germany what we call it and might not know how to spell it. I do wonder sometimes if any contacts have ever written down a J instead of a G and we just never know.
Go portable, do not take an antenna with you. Connect your tuner to what ever pole you find sticking out of the ground, throw out a ground radial, tune up and go. You would be surprised what works!
you were saying "5-9 100" is 100 the code for England?
If I may sir, I believe 100 after the 5x9 meant 100 watts. I've also asked HAM on another youtube video about such numerics after the 5 by 9 and I was told it pertains to the power output. 100, 5 or 6 hundred, some even say kilo meaning 1 kilowatt. I hope this helps.
Hi Pat for that contest you gave your power so in my case 100 (watts)
J-pole-ish...
Indeed
Exactly what I need for my limited roof ! 73 de LZ2SEP .
Great!
Very interesting, might try one of these. Thanks Tim de m0jqq
It’s a bit goofy Robin but it seems to work