@@MeanHereAT are you talking about the reply above you or the comment, if you are talking about the comment the Mig 29 and Su 27 flight models are in top 3 worst flight models in top tier, thats a universally recognized fact look at any YT channel. it is horrible
It’s going to be better in rb, high speed energy retention is so much better that can even compete with something like f15 which greatly improves it’s survivability in rb furball environment.
The FM of the new mirage is highly advantageous in BVR fights. You maintain that Mach 1+ energy far better than before which gives the MICA much more energy to catch enemies.
Remember guys, only American mains get good flight models, we can't have the poor cry baby American mains losing dogfights : ( (i play almost all nations in air, the F-15 and F-16 are a ufo, i have both)
yeah i main Russia and Germany, just reached the Italian F-16, it really is a ufo compared to the migs, rate fights better, while still being much stronger in the one circle and slow speed, but russian bias lmfao
Do you think doing a bug report with the graph you show on first part can be a good idea ? Maybe Gaijin will change their mind and give the Mirage a more accurate FM.
if it's overperforming, it shall be cooked! That's my opinion on the matter, i'm glad Ride still has the patience to do his bugreports, i am honestly tired of UFO Mig23s in sim.
He didn't. He didn't test F8E for sustained turn rate with combat flaps down instead of up. And the F8 is weird insofar that the wing tilts and the manual basically states that the combat flaps/wing tilt make the plane easier to fly but is ambiguous whether or not it improves sustained turn rate.
@@yeetusdeletus8489 Current MiG-23ML/MLD flight models are just straight better than the Mirage F1C. Only thing you can do is make aggressive (muh one circle) opening and get behind them in the first turn...and hope they just flounder. I think you can see pretty common MiG-23ML type players in my F5E video. I would probably use the same kind of idea against them. F1C is going to be really strong this patch from the looks of things though.
F5E probably should still lose but it's probably close in first two turns. But M2K should be able to win with energy retention and power to weight ratio. Also if/when ITR gets changed...we might just be back and better than ever.
Gaijin will keep nerfing non US flight models, probably sense they make the most money for them in terms of Air gameplay. the russian jets suffered, and now they're coming for the french.
@@SashaVhd It's more realistic than the current live server version as far as I can tell. But I'm waiting for the patch because my luck is that they will change it 10 minutes after I drop a new video on it.
@squishface80085 but it's a nerf cuz the goal of the delta wing is to perform at low and supersonic speeds ( performing worse at high speeds until supersonic) or am I wrong
Even we don't know...but in this case...bad. But FM is different and changes make it better in some ways...worse in others. Also if ITR (monkey pull turn rate) is fixed and the energy retention stays the same...it might be the best flight model in War Thunder.
and I just got used to loving this! :( Can't have crap in warthunder. Edit: I am LOVING this mig-23 change, and I say this as a mig-23MF player, I'm just sad it wasn't made this way years ago when it was dominating air RB.
@@ferrous3262 You're kidding right? The mig23MF/MLD/ML is in a WONDER spot right now! When I take it out I get tons of aces and ATLEAST 2 kills pergame. it's the fastest plane at it's BR with 2 of the best radar missiles at it's BR (no the sparrows are not better, because of how slow and easy to dodge they are, you can't dodge a r24 in a headon) and when you go into 'T-pose' mode you sustain STUPID amounts of energy, which ends up being enough to dogfight a FRIKING f16! which is just DUMB, yeah I've 1v1'd f16s and won, and they were good players too, their only mistake was not running away, which is absurd, that the f16 should have to do that. Historically the mig23s dogfight capability was about on par with a phantom, but a little worse probably. The mig23 will STILL be good after this update, you just won't be able to win 1v3s like you can right now.
@@ferrous3262 I played the mig23MF right after sending that comment and I got atleast 2 kills in every game I played (I only played 4 games cause I had to leave) And I had fun in it, so it's definitely not a suffer bus. you know what IS a suffer bus? The F4C, the F4J, the f104S ASA, thoooose are suffer bus's.
I like how gajin only makes american planes the best dogfighters, and then nerfs every other gen 4. Even now, the F-15A and F-16A beat every other gen 4 in a 1v1, and pretty easily. The amount of hand holding for USA is insane. (They suck at dogfighting so they need their flight models to always be significantly better than their enemies to win dogfighr)
Gaijin try not to fuck up a flight model for no reason challenge (Impossible) Mig-29, Su-27, now Mirage 2000
Now we need f-16, f-15, gripen and we're golden
*Hates on realism and glazes op fm's*😂
@@MeanHereAT wdym
@@MeanHereAT are you talking about the reply above you or the comment, if you are talking about the comment the Mig 29 and Su 27 flight models are in top 3 worst flight models in top tier, thats a universally recognized fact look at any YT channel. it is horrible
Nah just trolling
Meanwhile, Eagle Dynamics eviscerated theirs not to be outdone by Gaijin.
Gaijin took my child outback, shot it in the head, and then made me bury it.
Rider, i hope your pillow's sides are both cold.
From mirage 2000 midrage 2000, truly a tragedy.
i just want my baby mig29 to fly well :(
It’s being worked on for a bug report, hopefully soon
Where can i find that big report?@@teivabaudoin2666
@@teivabaudoin2666 For real? I hope it does something
@@francoarca2122 so do I
Su-27 :(
chat can we lobotomize RideR2
very good demonstration of the fm changes, definitely feels more balanced from just looking at it.
Mirage blood is on your hands.
How dare you decimate your own child
It’s going to be better in rb, high speed energy retention is so much better that can even compete with something like f15 which greatly improves it’s survivability in rb furball environment.
The FM of the new mirage is highly advantageous in BVR fights. You maintain that Mach 1+ energy far better than before which gives the MICA much more energy to catch enemies.
Remember guys, only American mains get good flight models, we can't have the poor cry baby American mains losing dogfights : ( (i play almost all nations in air, the F-15 and F-16 are a ufo, i have both)
yeah i main Russia and Germany, just reached the Italian F-16, it really is a ufo compared to the migs, rate fights better, while still being much stronger in the one circle and slow speed, but russian bias lmfao
@@enzohumeau8864 The F-16 is supposed to rate better than most if not all 4th gens wdym?
@@MeanHereAT yeah but its winning in a one circle where the migs are just better
@@MeanHereAT it's a ratefight god, but still wins the one circle vs the MiGs and SUs
Literally haven't mention one circle
its also getting more instantaneus pull so we will see how it ends
Geez, can't catch a break... Firstly the M2000 in DCS won't turn more than 5 g's, now the war thunder one gets bricked...
Goooooooooooooood
And the monkeys paw curled...
RB instructor on M2K is cooked...
Gaijin has introduced 6th Gen stealth tech from Wish.
Flight model is still RAW
Do you think doing a bug report with the graph you show on first part can be a good idea ? Maybe Gaijin will change their mind and give the Mirage a more accurate FM.
if it's overperforming, it shall be cooked! That's my opinion on the matter, i'm glad Ride still has the patience to do his bugreports, i am honestly tired of UFO Mig23s in sim.
NOOOOOOO
I feel like the fact that Rider got caught fabricating sources has something to do with why people dislike him...
He didn't.
He didn't test F8E for sustained turn rate with combat flaps down instead of up. And the F8 is weird insofar that the wing tilts and the manual basically states that the combat flaps/wing tilt make the plane easier to fly but is ambiguous whether or not it improves sustained turn rate.
now thats on live, what do you think of the FM
I haven't really played it enough yet.
It's definitely worse than the old coming model as far as what it can do in-game.
@@squishface80085 you sure its "definitely " worse? im kinda enjoying it right now but i do have yet to get into a proper low speed fight yet
Does the M2K-C have vertical scan ACM?
It has like 3 different ACM modes now. 1 of them is a vertical scan but it's more below the nose than above it.
so, people who paid to win are now salty?
Good. Gooooood.
You've done this.... As a M2k-5f Main, it's OVER.
One more thing, How on earth do I beat a MiG-23 in the Mirage F1CT in sim 1v1's
Wait for the next patch and then just Magic 2 his ass.
@@squishface80085 Yeah that's how I usually tend to win (If I get nose on / radar lock), but in a guns only setting I'm fuckin helpless
@@yeetusdeletus8489
Current MiG-23ML/MLD flight models are just straight better than the Mirage F1C. Only thing you can do is make aggressive (muh one circle) opening and get behind them in the first turn...and hope they just flounder.
I think you can see pretty common MiG-23ML type players in my F5E video. I would probably use the same kind of idea against them.
F1C is going to be really strong this patch from the looks of things though.
What about the MiG-29 and Su-27?
There are no changes to the FM on dev server. So they will remain overcooked.
@@squishface80085 Да чтоб тебя! Как же они задрали! Чтоб их из Евросоюза выгнали!
@@squishface80085 Sad. Very sad.
Hows it compare to a well fought F-5E?
F5E probably should still lose but it's probably close in first two turns. But M2K should be able to win with energy retention and power to weight ratio.
Also if/when ITR gets changed...we might just be back and better than ever.
finallyyyyy
Gaijin will keep nerfing non US flight models, probably sense they make the most money for them in terms of Air gameplay. the russian jets suffered, and now they're coming for the french.
You caused this
3:00
Can someone bug report so they make it realistic (the mK2
It's already been changed twice since this video.
@@squishface80085 realistically?
@@SashaVhd
It's more realistic than the current live server version as far as I can tell. But I'm waiting for the patch because my luck is that they will change it 10 minutes after I drop a new video on it.
@@squishface80085 u got the gaijin malediction
@squishface80085 but it's a nerf cuz the goal of the delta wing is to perform at low and supersonic speeds ( performing worse at high speeds until supersonic) or am I wrong
As a millennial boomer, is the FM being cooked good or bad?
Even we don't know...but in this case...bad.
But FM is different and changes make it better in some ways...worse in others.
Also if ITR (monkey pull turn rate) is fixed and the energy retention stays the same...it might be the best flight model in War Thunder.
@@squishface80085 is there a bug report up for the ITR already?
@@stormjet814 Yes its already been reported and one of the tech mods already basically said that it is going through.
its all your fault D;
No
and I just got used to loving this! :(
Can't have crap in warthunder.
Edit: I am LOVING this mig-23 change, and I say this as a mig-23MF player, I'm just sad it wasn't made this way years ago when it was dominating air RB.
why you would be happy over the mig23 getting nerfed its already in struggle bus territory
@@ferrous3262 You're kidding right? The mig23MF/MLD/ML is in a WONDER spot right now! When I take it out I get tons of aces and ATLEAST 2 kills pergame. it's the fastest plane at it's BR with 2 of the best radar missiles at it's BR (no the sparrows are not better, because of how slow and easy to dodge they are, you can't dodge a r24 in a headon) and when you go into 'T-pose' mode you sustain STUPID amounts of energy, which ends up being enough to dogfight a FRIKING f16! which is just DUMB, yeah I've 1v1'd f16s and won, and they were good players too, their only mistake was not running away, which is absurd, that the f16 should have to do that.
Historically the mig23s dogfight capability was about on par with a phantom, but a little worse probably. The mig23 will STILL be good after this update, you just won't be able to win 1v3s like you can right now.
@@cookiecracker2 historically late 23s were able to somewhat dogfight F-16s and 29s if given R-73s
@@iansysoev9462 but isn't that just because they were able to get a off-boresight lock?? like no way they were able to get the nose on.
@@ferrous3262 I played the mig23MF right after sending that comment and I got atleast 2 kills in every game I played (I only played 4 games cause I had to leave) And I had fun in it, so it's definitely not a suffer bus. you know what IS a suffer bus? The F4C, the F4J, the f104S ASA, thoooose are suffer bus's.
You got what u asked for smh
And that’s good, the plane is still way too good to sit at 11.7
I actually didn't.
It retains too much energy, doesn't gain it back quickly, and its initial turn is too low...so its still very much inaccurate.
I like how gajin only makes american planes the best dogfighters, and then nerfs every other gen 4. Even now, the F-15A and F-16A beat every other gen 4 in a 1v1, and pretty easily. The amount of hand holding for USA is insane. (They suck at dogfighting so they need their flight models to always be significantly better than their enemies to win dogfighr)
still lose tho (L bozo)
Gripen has existed for the past 6 months.
Current Mirage 2000 flight model and Magic 2 also exists.
@squishface80085 the F-16A beats the gripen. (In an RB dogfight at least) the F-15A does as well.
@@squishface80085 I never lose to gripens in the f16a
@squishface80085 they nerfed the gripen, it no longer beats the f15a or f16a in a dogfight.