@@Lt-Leinad 7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. Where do you work if this is like employment??
Like all of Ben Shapiro's answers..... This does make me wonder if Ben probably thinks it might be moral to own slaves now, if only it wasn't for those liberals?
@@nothanks1508It wasn't even particularly hyperbole. He said somewhere between 11-13 "greats" So even being ridiculously generous at 100 years per generation, that still leaves him a couple thousand years short of the time period he's referring too.
Hurry, Ben! Talk quickly! This is why Ben Shapiro has no principles. He's not a truth-seeker. He's using post-hoc rationalization and not doing a good job of it.
@@christophercombs7561 nah, his whole view of life is derived by his radical beliefs, including his "universal truths" about history and society. Shapiro is not competent in anything other than making stupid people think he's smart
Ben made a really good response. He said that the bible is in a tricky position trying to get those immortal truths to people of that time, so the important thing is the direction. And in that the bible was indeed incredibly progressive and humanistic both for its time, and the judeo-christiam tradition had alsp been uniqurly advancing more in this direction since. As an atheist, that might be problematic from a theological position, but is still completely true.
What does the god of objective morality mean? Isn’t all morality, even a gods, subjective? It always confused me why anyone could be convinced they know the objective morality of a god, as everyone has to subjectively decide what god they make believe in. May everyone come to be disabused of all evil ☮️&❤
@@philosopher0076 people will underestimate all sorts of things. "Yeah he's just a guy who went to Oxford and speaks nicely, he also doesn't believe in abrahamic religions like every normal person in Europe" Man, he's been a public figure since when he was a kid and, as far as I remember, he just DOESN'T slip, and he's FAST and incredibly precise with his thoughts, and then he also presents them so beautifully with no effort whatsoever. No, there's nothing normal about this. There's nothing normal about being the best at interviewing world famous personages in long form in the philosophical field. I'm his age and I still cringe at myself because stuff comes out of my mouth wrong when I talk to the baker or at the post office or whatever. But yeah this is normal, Alex isn't lol
There’s no fumble at all… God permitted things in the past, but it’s hard for Ben to defend his point when Christianity is the only truth out there. Since the Hebrew Bible is part of Christian text, it’s important to recognize the distinction between the old and new covenant. Everything became different after God became flesh and dwelt amongst us. As for this debate guy, he conveniently goes up against those that aren’t actually a follower of God. It’s impossible to debate these issues unless he gets a real Christian, and I’m not talking about the professing type, the only real Christian is the one to do the will of the Father and whoever does that will surely belongs to the Lord, then God will be able to debate rather than what humans could say
@@CoolManCoolMan123 I think you misunderstood me because I don’t think Jordan Peterson is a real Christian, he just started really believing in it not too long ago, and Muslims are just as satanic as Jews, Christians are the only true followers and genuine Christians are so few that you may never meet one in your lifetime.
@@MLGB0Yz “God permitted things” is a bit of an understatement. He commanded atrocities to happen in his name simply due to other tribes worshipping another god and he was gonna be jealous if a Hebrew stated to even think about doing that. (Deuteronomy 20:10) How can a perfect god “change” his mind between the old and the New Testament? I use quotation marks because he never changed his mind on things like slavery since Jesus never condemned it. This is all assuming god even is real. If he is, he’s evil as hell and there’s no reason to worship that bullshit.
😂😂😂 That look at 0:37 that says 'Oh. I didn't know we were going to remember all the way back to what I said two sentences ago and compare it to what I said next.'
There will always be opportunists who want to misconstrue whatever they can in order to take advantage for their own selfish gain. Interestingly, two different types of people read the same Bible verses…some loved and promoted slavery while others shed their blood in Civil War to abolish it. Check your interpretations, but more importantly, check your own heart. It is not uncommon to desperately find fault with something in the Bible so that you think you can get yourself off the hook from the light that it contains and the coming judgement on the wickedness of this world
Quran 2:85 Is it that you believe in part of the Scripture, and disbelieve in part? What is the reward for those among you who do that but humiliation in this life? And on the Day of Resurrection, they will be assigned to the most severe torment. God is not unaware of what you do.
@Deeloyal This small short thoroughly disproved the widespread argument that objective morality exists and it is in the Bible or other holy books. That's it. Objective morality doesn't exist and we define morality ourselves just as we, or our ancestors, wrote the holy books and invented all gods within them
@@jamieclarke2694 Moral relativism is a grade school attempt stemming from a Hedonistic mindset to remove any restraint in order to indulge in whatever, whenever. Weakened perspectives such as this is what is allowing, for example, Twisted pedophiles to rationalize their wickedness, “minor attracted person” But why not condone it? In your world it seems that anything goes because it’s all relative, right? And they call religious people scary.
@@davidevans3223 what are you on? Freedom isn't tied to the Bible, the concept of equal freedom comes from the Age of Enlightenment, and both the ideology and the age is famous for going against Christianity, our current democratic political system is developed in Brittain, and it became the democracy we know today by rebelling against the person who claims to have power on a religious basis (the king/queen of Brittain is technically the leader of the Anglican church), and democracy as a concept actually came from ancient Athena, (today the it's a part of Greece), when the non Aristocrats, the working class "demos" grew in power, and their votes had more political power, this is why it's called democracy. This happened 500 years before Christianity, and the new testament. Tl;dr religion had many good (and bad) achievements for the European civilization, but freedom and democracy isn't one, and we can see a pattern that freedom as we know today came to existence by going AGAINST Christianity.
What would have been better is if Ben would have answered with, “I’m not sure, I have not studied biblical “slavery”. Instead you have both Ben and the interviewer looking like dim whits.
By saying “he wasn’t permitting me, he was permitting my great (great x10) grandfather”, you are talking about a different person, but not a different god, nor a different bible. You are implying that thousands of years ago, either god was wrong about morality (and he changed his mind later), or he still believes slavery is ok. Even if you think god “changed his mind”, or the Bible was wrong, how can you trust any word coming from that book then? Who determines what’s true or false, rather than what you want it to be?
When they do this, they're effectively acknowledging that He doesn't exist at all and that the Bible was written by men using their morals of the day. This really bugs me when theists say that morals didn't exist before God gave them to us. I treat other people well because it's the right thing to do, and not because I fear an almighty deity.
There is actually more than two cases (let me know if I forgot one): A - God knows slavery is wrong 1 - but is Ok with it 2 - but couldn't change humans mind 3 - but wanted humans to figure it out B - God didn't know slavery is wrong 1 - but doesn't want to update the texts 2 - but is not able to update the texts 3 - but wants humans to ignore the texts Which means that God is either: - Evil - Weak and/or limited - Useless And in all cases, God is an entity that keeps contradicting itself.
When I read the Bible, I didn't find a part permitting slavery, only a part that put harsher and stricter rules around it. The "relativism" isn't as we usually consider it as, the dependency on opinions, but on the alternative. I'd rather be a slave for the Ancient Israelites under those rules than without such rules.
@@johnchambers9836I'm certain that there were laws for slaves in America. For instance a slave owner could not kidnap a slave from another plantation. That's theft. So by dudes logic it's fine. Lmao
My favorite part is when Alex tells Ben that crediting Judeo-Christian values for things like the Enlightenment and Social Justice movements seems like giving yourself credit for "fixing" atrocities you started. And the funny thing is none of these people ever use the Islamic Golden Age as an example of religion resulting in greater enlightenment. Why is that?
Well in some ways, Christianity at most fixed their atrocities. Islam went the other way, in that they were at the forefront of the scientific movement, but they’ve sadly spent the last few centuries essentially doing away with most of it (although, it should be stated their contributions still have helped the western scientific world).
@@fizz03 Will never understand why Americans and Europeans single out Islam as a proof of religion being dangerous when these good Christians tried to enslave, subjugate, or exploit the entire world that didn't look like them, feeling their faith entitled them to it. Christianity is 600 years older than Islam and what started to "fix" Christianity was ironically the influx of scientific and cultural insight ushered in by Islamic scholars and artists in Asia and Africa. Europe ain't special guys. Almost annihilated an entire hemisphere for resources and said their God vindicated it and then took people from another continent and made them their property. Glass houses, guys. You and I are not special.
Well, it's not that hard to examine a culture / people group like "The Church", i.e. Christians, for their breadth of contributions to the world, from the worse to the better. IF you are being intellectually honest. Otherwise, you will be prone to discount tacts and truth in favor of a false narrative that Christianity had only done bad things. HINT: It's not binary, Christians have committed evils AND done great things for humanity. ( If asked, pretty sure Christian apologists would acknowledge the Islamic Golden Age, but these kinds of debates are not about Islam. It's rather unfair, if not disingenuous, to criticize Christians for engaging in Atheist-Theist debates and not mentioning Islam's Golden Age. Isn't that obvious? )
@darkness8488 Donald Trump has more power than all the atheists in history combined even without a presidency. To say Ben is irrelevant is burying your head in the sand. He influences people to take political action. To suggest he can be dismissed is stupid considering he is extremely intelligent and his arguments appeal to millions. I am an theist, staunchly critical of religion's role in society and I would say its a desperate need to address everything ben shapiro says.
@@JBHACKSAW TRump has more power? His inbreds didn’t show up the last 3 times he “Called them to action over his unfair indictments” all the MAGA’s have don’t since Jan 6 is pay his legal bills!😂😂😂😂 As for Shit Stain Shitpiro dude gets real fucking quiet when he is up against some with a functioning brain 🧠 stem! Look up Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s interview with Shitpiro that DRAWF got shut down big time like the fucking BETA he is!
Cherry picking isn't a legitimate accusation. It'd be like saying "in the story you like and base your moral system on someone in it acts immoral!" Check mate? This is nonsense
@FlawlessP401 no, thats not whats happening here. the cherry picking is at play when you say, my morality is superior to yours because it comes from this book of morals from my god and u point to moral promotions but ignore promotions that imply an opposite morality. Like "turn the other cheek" but also, "an eye for an eye" Or "love your neighbor as u love yourself" but also, "take your slaves from the people around you". If u have to ignore obvious contradictions to ur claim, ur cherrypicking.
@@michael1345 1. I never said ANYone "willing put themselves into the position of a slave." 2. But, In the bible, people DID put themselves willingly as slaves, it was a form of indentured servitude. Deuteronomy 15:16-17 3. Answer my question. I asked why is ANY form of slavery immoral. Pick whatever form of slavery throughout human history is "unjustifiable" or immoral and then answer; Says WHO? Name your source.
@rolysantos in what scenario is it justified, also providing a source for something based on morals is near impossible provide me with a reputable source that say slavery IS morally justified
@@rolysantossays the human nature, we're born with some moral values, like not killing, not harming others. even when slavery was common around the world, im pretty sure people did see it as immoral, but it was either so profitable that it couldn't be ignored or abolished, or it was a part of society that if someone refused to partake in it, they would be ridiculed and mocked. and there is also the question of POWs, so it was kinda necessary in pre-modern warfare, but it was still immoral. all it had tk take was someone putting themselves in the slave's shoes and they would feel empathy, our ancestors were not robots you know, they have the same moral compass and feeling we do now. at least that's what i think
The reality is that Ben doesn't know if his ancestors were Jews or not. The genealogies were lost for most of the Jews during the first century. He also doesn't have the knowledge that he should have of the Old Testament and the reason for the structure of slavery and it's laws in the nation of Israel. It isn't a question of morality. It was a question of survival. Jews sold themselves into slavery to other Jews when they got into financial trouble. They were not forced into it. It was voluntary. There was no welfare system in place.
@@FlawlessP401u poor thing. This must be really hard for u. Feel free to help ur boy out, why would god permit an immoral act? Why does it matter what people thought at the time?😂 didn't god give all kinds of commandments to stop doing things they were doing? I hate what religion does to one's ability to reason. So glad I got out of it so I'm allowed to think now..
@@shannonkey9926if you were not thinking because of religion, I seriously doubt you are thinking now. Religion does not impede your ability to reason, that is based on your own personal laziness to examine the world with your mind. Don’t blame religion for your complacency
@@DatbiolaguyReligion can impede rational thought if you are indoctrinated into it and taught by people that you trust that the rational thinkers are wrong. Fear and trust play a huge role there. Fear of burning in hell, and trust of the people that raise you. People under conditions like these can be coerced out of trusting even their own rational thinking. Religion is a hell of a drug, and it can fuck people up in all kinds of ways.
@@killcount4750 And by doing so, it proves that he isn't using objective morality here, which is the point that Alex wants him to make. You can't make a case for objective morality when you only use it sometimes.
Anything too blatantly unacceptable from the Old Testament is cancelled out by the New Testament no explanation needed, but the underpinning principles of the religion are in the Old Testament so they have to keep it intact, my head would explode if it has to contain this cognitive dissonance and more
@@zzzzzz69 the entire premise of Christianity is a moral relativist position. The new testament overwrites the old, because God changes his mind whenever he wants.
Back when i listened to him 7 or so years ago he would openly say that religious discussions are the hardest for him because you can intrinsically believe a belief system but have a gripe with the baggage. It's like saying you believe in the freedom of the US but have to gripe with the fact it was built on slavery - on this basis you cannot defend representative democracy
That is because slavery is normal working relationship in the old times. It is much difference than the 1800s American black slavery. Pls note all slavery in the old testament is voluntary. Not forced. And they got paid upfront for their labor for a few years. 🙏
@@Jocky8807 Not true. This only applied to the servitude of Israelis to other Israelis. Completely different rules were in place for foreigners. Leviticus 25:44 states that slaves and their children will be property forever.
@@Raptor302 Leviticus 25:44-46 NIV [44] “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. [45] You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. [46] You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. => you "can" make them servant for life. This old time servant that works for your father Can now work for the you. => whether or not he/she want to work for life, it is the slave choice. Deuteronomy 15:16-17 NIV [16] But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, [17] then take an awl and push it through his earlobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life. Do the same for your female servant. Add note: old servant working for you is a burden. They (he and family) eat and not as strong. Imagine your worker age 70, and wants to works for life to you. How much cost you have to bear. I meant if your employee age 70 and say want to work for life to American employer. Would the company accept it? In the old testament law, this is the worker choice. And the employer has to comply for appreciation of his lifelong. And has to do the same for female slaves. Which was considered worthless at that time as most labor required strangth.
And in spite of all the sincerely held religious beliefs of the evangelical bible-belueving Christians who defended slavery vigorously to the point of going to war to make sure they could continue to own other human beings.
That the awareness and knowledge of the moral law is found in varying degrees in different cultures is not an argument for moral relativism, but for the imperfection of human knowledge and awareness.
Give these Christian theocracy proponents full political power today.... inquisitions, moral police, witch burnings, book bans, science persecution and stone age laws will immediately return. Look at the Islamic theocracies....it is one of the most important facts....that the separation of state and church needs to be protected, preserved and defended.... ....or else anyone not like them is doomed.
There will always be opportunists who want to misconstrue whatever they can in order to take advantage for their own selfish gain. Interestingly, two different types of people read the same Bible verses…some loved and promoted slavery while others shed their blood in Civil War to abolish it. Check your interpretations, but more importantly, check your own heart. It is not uncommon to desperately find fault with something in the Bible so that you think you can get yourself off the hook from the light that it contains and the coming judgement on the wickedness of this world
@@tegathemenace This generation loves moral relativism… same old Hedonistic techniques to dull the god-given conscience to embrace and indulge perversion. Oh wait…. Who can define perversion? There’s no wrong or right in the creeds of Atheism
It became outdated during the first century when they rejected their messiah, their King, Jesus Christ. They handed Jesus over to Pilate for crucifixion. As Jesus predicted the Roman army came, destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, and scattered the Jews. They were finished except for a small remnant of them that believed that Jesus was the messiah, that he rose on the third day, that Jesus is king of kings , LORD of LORDs. Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
The answer was basically that at the time, everyone had slaves, and rather than ban the practice outright, and probably people rejecting the religion, instead it was liberalizing, and easing the effects of a practice that already existed, and was ubiquitous.
come on boys. Biblical texts are not condoning slavery, taking things out of context is a great great great great fun game, isn't it? Barbaras who was set free, a murderer in the place of Jesus means murder is permitted? No. Quit twisting the word.
If you ever need to wonder if Ben would own slaves if it was socially acceptable, this clip proves it. His defence for why God allowed it back then was “the people who had a voice didn’t mind it back then.” Like if Ben was transported back to the Civil War, he’d be on the side of the slave owners and probably buying a slave or two himself.
If it was socially acceptable there qould be no issue you would too ...its not quite the flex you think that is...there is plenty yo attact Ben on but that's reaching
Ben believes in ABSOLUTE morality and sees "god" as the author of morality. If he is being honest with his religious beliefs, why then should he conform to society standard, to the point of justifying god's immoral support for slavery? Isn't that moral relativism as opposed to absolute morality he claims to stand for?
@@easydoggy theres plenty of things i do that arent socially acceptable and plenty of things there are that i dont do. Dont assume everyones an npc because you are.
Depends, I mean, some masters treated their slaves decently or even well, and it was seen as mercy as they would not be killed by their conqueror, but if they slaughtered the boys and women who have had sex, and only left the girls for themselves, and (likely) used them however they pleased (as Moses instructed his soldiers), they were probably seen as monsters who would have mistreated their civillian captives. And those born under slavery may have just acknowledged it as a fact of life, as they did not know being free, or as a great injustice they couldn't do anything about.
@mr.cauliflower3536 being born a slave is quite rare in human history, American chattel slavery was uniquely cruel in that regard. A lot of slavery through human history was basically debt repayment. Yes, in war, children would be made slaves, and sometimes debt could pass to a child and that child would become a slave, but typically speaking, it's cruel even by biblical standards for an infant to be a slave just because their parents were.
@@SJNaka101 but it's not cruel if they can't define the word cruel right? Cus you require words to understand cruelty? Idk lmao I still can't believe someone took the slave masters side in fuckin 2024. GOD DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO WHAT YOU WANT ANYMORE
The way Ben defends this point is frightening. No reasonable person would defend slavery. Religious brainwashing makes people do and think terrible things.
I consider my self a reasonable Christian and will defend slavery even now,even from a Christian perspective as i would say everyone in jail right now is a slave of the state. God punished His people the Jews by making them all slaves for a time as well as punished those around the Jews by having them slaves for a time.God owns all and created all and sustains all thus He can and should run the show. thanks
You're comparing biblical slavery with western slavery? You realize those who went into slavery back then was a form of a job right? The working conditions were rough for those who abused the system but it was a means to provide for their family. God's word gives us a glimpse into that. In fact, slaves were considered a part of the family unit and wealthy people had to pay taxes for each one. The slaves held an importance in a family's reputation so they had to be treated well. It would be like a modern day maid. Nothing like the slavery we learned from in the WEST. Learn about historical facts to gain a greater understanding. There will always be abuse in any system. Even the work force now, even our own government and military.
@@joman388most brainwashed people (such as yourself and as I used to be) do consider themselves reasonable and not brainwashed. Its not easy admitting your parents, gaurdians or loved ones might be wrong about certain things and might not know everything about life. Its not easy, but it is possible. I know cause I was able to admit it after many years of brain washing and fighting the truth.
@@ElloSheerio Your comments prove my point perfectly. Sounds like you cannot accept (or refuse to accept) the immoral parts of the bible. You bring up "western" slavery vs Biblical slavery....this shows you have very little knowledge of slavery in general. You probably just choose what you want to believe, to keep your mind intact. You should be ashamed of yourself for your defense of this subject. You sugarcoat slavery (people as property) like it's a vocation. You seem indoctrinated.....maybe you'd defended that too. Indoctrination is mental slavery.
Atheist always get excited with these shorts, speak or taking the Bible literally... Ben is pretty annoying but here he's right, nowhere in the Bible god commands to take and keep slaves forever... He allowed Jewish people back then, Hence the great great great great parents thing....
Yes, and if you put him in a setting where people have time to respond normally and think for a second he tends to break down, because he's a fallacy peddler.
God was working with what he had at the time. The culture started somewhere and he met them where they were at. Humans and their understanding of morality have evolved to where we are now with the help of the truths He has revealed to prophets since then. He can only work with imperfect human beings and with the knowledge and willingness they have at the time. He gives them knowledge little by little, building on the things they know and slowly helping them (and now us) perfect ourselves, whittle ourselves into better people. There’s some really cool stuff that has come out about how when Jesus came, he was a radical in his treatment of women, for example. He took the Jews where they were at and taught them principles to guide them toward being better. Check out Lynne Hilton Wilson’s Emancipation of Women book or lecture, it’s pretty eye-opening. There is also so much most of us in our modern situation don’t know all these years later about their civil system and situation and the structure of their society and the way people were actually treated and the labels we see meaning something today vs what they meant in their society back then. We have to be careful of presentism and really do some deep dives into the history of the past to get answers. Critics of the Bible can judge ancient history by today’s standards but that won’t get them very far because life was very, very different back then.
@@mekajinn7523 it does, but “biblical” slavery is not what we know as slavery. It was indentured servitude. In my original comment I mentioned these things. HaShem laid out specific laws when it came to “slavery”, one such law is that absolutely no harm was to come to the slave by the master.
@@mboxerman2 So do you think that slavery as described in the bible would be moral if enacted today? Is it suddenly moral because it only takes most of their rights away, instead of all of them?
The core principles of many religions are logically and morally sound, just the extra fluff falls apart under scrutiny. Those core principles (similar to the 10 commandments) were very important as a guiding force to tame our animalistic instincts take us out of savagery. Any historian wouldn’t deny that.
@@tonalambiguity3345 Probably and many people see it that way, but that isn’t according to the bible. Those rules came just directly from God. They aren’t all completely understandable as being self evident.
Well honestly he only really implodes on the religious topic bc it's inherently illogical (idk why he even debates it) he's pretty sound on his political debates, it's a shame that religion can blind otherwise rational people.
@@dain6492nothing about Ben is logical. He talks fast and “debates” those that are not prepared for debate. There is a reason he declines most actual debate prepared individuals and other such professional philosophers.
@letusdebatenow na I'm a daily wire subscriber and listen to his daily podcast. I don't agree with everything he says but he's pretty on point most of the time.
Are u talking about slavery? Slavery in the bible is not really slavery that we think of. It’s more like indentured servanthood. Israelites sold themselves into slavery if they needed to pay off debt or were too poor to live on their own. Another Israelite would usually be their “master”. But the bible says to treat the slave as a simple worker. They are to treat them with respect and give them food, clothes, and shelter. There is one situation where the Israelites were at war and disobeyed God and left some of the gentiles so they took them in as slaves basically so they didn’t rebel against them in the future. There was also a law given down by God for gentiles to own Israelites in certain situations and they were to treat them with respect as well. Slavery wasn’t abolished completely during this time period but God doesn’t always work on our timing and his timing is usually gradually. He is all knowing so he would know the future to come and it was Christians that came to realize that slavery needed to be abolished forever. It also wasn’t like it was back in the day for the Israelites. God made us in his image and is fully against the slavery we talk about today. The slavery God laid down had regulations within moral law. Anything outside of that is against God.
Seriously, justifying the ethics of Christianity while asserting God and his following as the unquestionable supreme moral standard... with the goddamn Bible as the canon material, it's so wretched and embarrassing, Hitler surely believed he was a good guy too
Every once in awhile Bens opinion differs from mine or is incorrect,that doesnt make the rest of what Ben says incorrect as most of what He says is very correct. thanks
@@JustinG1057 Torah. Not the bible. The entire old testament is just the Torah which is what Ben was completely brainwashed into believing. He believes he's a chosen one and everyone else is here to serve.
@@AvatarNeo "Remember when you were making out with your first girlfriend, and you came right as she touched your leg? It was me, Barry." I just went along with your joke. :(
Oh that was so beautiful to watch! It was like one of those mathematical proofs by contradiction where you do this complex setup, things that don't seem to have much to do with each other, and then you pull the rug and suddenly it clicks and you have the contradiction you were looking for
That wasn’t the point , it just shows how stupid you are but still how eager you are to make an idiotic “sarcastic” remark. It’s not moral relativism and Ben explains it right afterwards and has explained it in many debates . Famously Jordan Peterson explained it to a group of thousands of atheists - If you were in a time where pedophilia(consetual) was commonly accepted practise and you were the ruler , would you just pass a law giving death sentences to everyone involved in pedophilia (slavery) or would you try to plant seeds of thought, mitigating the harm in short term but extinguishing the practise in long term ?
@@sirjoesphjoestar8361 yes, there’s no rule or commandment explicitly ordering people to engage in slavery , but actually mitigating the inhumanity in the practises of slavery, which are seeds of thoughts that builder up to make people realise to abolish slavery. Even if you believe that god isnt real , this fact is undeniable. And no one(as far as I know) said a religious book is objective morality , god is objective morality abd his 10 commandments are the foundation to build on realising objective moral codes,ethics and practices.
@@dd-ph9fv You obviously didnt watch it, then. His wife is a doctor, if you didn't know (he broadcasts it frequently enough) - maybe she can prescribe you with something to cope harder.
There will always be opportunists who want to misconstrue whatever they can in order to take advantage for their own selfish gain. Interestingly, two different types of people read the same Bible verses…some loved and promoted slavery while others shed their blood in Civil War to abolish it. Check your interpretations, but more importantly, check your own heart. It is not uncommon to desperately find fault with something in the Bible so that you think you can get yourself off the hook from the light that it contains and the coming judgement on the wickedness of this world
@@whitewings2363they just wear it as a sign of respect for god. you’re just being hateful, this isn’t a criticism of any sort of truth claim. you’re just insulting tradition and symbolism. that’s hate for a culture. it isn’t okay. criticizing religion is important but criticizing harmless cultural aspects is really disgusting, i don’t care how much of a troglodyte ben shapiro is.
@the98themperoroftheholybri33 Hell, Islam has far more in common with Christianity than does Judism. For all that it is a barbaric religion. >Judiasm Jesus was a deciever and a false prophet who practiced black magic and is being punished for eternity by being boild alive in feces. Nothing of his life is true and he was an evil man. They also killed Christ as he was condemned in a council of Rabbi prior to his Crucifiction Islam Jesus was born a virgin and healed the sick, he was a prophet of the Lord and ascended to heaven to sit by the side of the Lord God. He will return at the End times to gather thr faithful. Which one seems more in line with the Christian worldview?
@@abhi5504 Is Islam the continuation of Christianity? No. Of course not. If Judism ceased to exist it would be the continuation. Look where Jews think Jesus endsd up, it is not pleasant. He resides in a lake of boiling feces. Compare that to Islam where he is a Prophet of the Lord God, born a virgin, healed the sick and will return before the End Times. You have been lied to by them. Judeo-Christian values are like Vegan-Carnivore. They are mutually exclusive.
@abhi5504 Jesus refuted the importance of certain cultural practices such as circumcisions and the sacrificial goat. You're another person ignorant of the importance of Jesus and his mother Mary, Mary is the new Ark and Jesus is the Prophet come forth.
When Ben says "He's not permitting me... he's permitting my great x grandfather" - I'm confused because there aren't any disclaimers such as this book is valid only till 1899 or whatever. If god permits something to your greatxgrandfather, then 'he' permits you because of the absence of time markers in the Bible. Or they have to agree that they're reading an outdated/ irrelevant book.
You defend it every time you tell a lie. You do it every time you look at a woman with lust. You do it every time you steal. My Sin wasn't as bad as hitlers sin was. So on and so on. You defend immorality every time you see it and do nothing.
If owning people is immoral then Alex has a lot to answer for, in his ownership of Ben here.
Owning people is immoral under atheism?
Sheeshhhhhhh
Superb joke, I hope you didn't steal it lol
Slavery in the bible is closer to employment or adoption than slavery
@@Lt-Leinad 7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again.
Where do you work if this is like employment??
Ben is more persuasive when he debates more intelligent people. When Ben debates people who make new meanings to common words, it seems pointless.
Not necessary. He does a lot better against people who not as skilled in communication and parsing through ideas nearly as quickly as he.
@@Windrake101 the original commentator here had it right. Absolutely no need for you to butt in.
#1 Comment right here!
Literally
Ben won this conversation far and away.
Ben. The word you were looking for is 'ancestor'.
He was stalling for time, and still failed to come up with anything rational.
That wouldn't be fun, will it?
That wouldn't be fun, will it?
Using a single word would make it harder for him to maintain his self-imposed quota of spewing a thousand words per minute.
Grandcestor.
Alex is a hypocrite, talking about immorality of owning people, while blatantly owning Ben.
Top level comment
😂
😂
Almost got me lmao
😂😂😂😂 that took me by surprise!!!
That answer was great, great, great, great, great, great bullshit.
Hahaha hahaha can you imagine if Alex said that? 😂
All theists arguments are.
What a monkey gymnastics of words!
Lol
Like all of Ben Shapiro's answers.....
This does make me wonder if Ben probably thinks it might be moral to own slaves now, if only it wasn't for those liberals?
Bro Alex, of the ownership of human beings is immoral, then why did you own Ben in the debate? Who is the moral relativist now?
😂😂😂
Dude 😂😂😂. Hope Alex isn't going to be nailed on the cross for that.
Savage!!! 🤣😂😅
Clever!
what a wonderful way to compliment him
If Ben had said 3 more “greats”… then I would have gone “hmm, he’s got a point…”
Usually happens when people start talking before they know what the end of they're sentence will be. They're just stalling for more time
Just need someone to add 808 drumline kick, snare, baseline & you got a "great" remix
Lol. Good one
@@AshleyReneeAzale usually the case, but i think here he was just using it as hyperbole
@@nothanks1508It wasn't even particularly hyperbole. He said somewhere between 11-13 "greats" So even being ridiculously generous at 100 years per generation, that still leaves him a couple thousand years short of the time period he's referring too.
The blinking was the visual representation of Ben doing mental backflips.
Who's the moral relatavist now Ben, f*cking aquaman?!?
I was reading it in that voice
Wait, what voice? Where's it from?)
@@elhant4994 rhetorical or genuine question?
@@nathanaelgazzard7989 Genuine, I have no idea what aquaman has to do with any of it and where is it quote from.
@@elhant4994 look up "Hbomberguy Aquaman"
Ben can't handle people who are not fazed by his fast pace of talking bullshit
Hurry, Ben! Talk quickly! This is why Ben Shapiro has no principles. He's not a truth-seeker. He's using post-hoc rationalization and not doing a good job of it.
The idea of freedom never existed before the bible fact
On religion hes easily cornered but hus stance on other topics can and frequently are objectively correct
@@christophercombs7561 nah, his whole view of life is derived by his radical beliefs, including his "universal truths" about history and society. Shapiro is not competent in anything other than making stupid people think he's smart
Ben made a really good response.
He said that the bible is in a tricky position trying to get those immortal truths to people of that time, so the important thing is the direction.
And in that the bible was indeed incredibly progressive and humanistic both for its time, and the judeo-christiam tradition had alsp been uniqurly advancing more in this direction since.
As an atheist, that might be problematic from a theological position, but is still completely true.
It always confused me why the God of objective morality had to conform to humanity’s subjective morality.
God's the ultimate authority - except when he isnt
What does the god of objective morality mean? Isn’t all morality, even a gods, subjective? It always confused me why anyone could be convinced they know the objective morality of a god, as everyone has to subjectively decide what god they make believe in.
May everyone come to be disabused of all evil
☮️&❤
exactly fuckin right
Clearly God's morality is not objective. Killing is bad, but sending a flood to wipe out everything from existence except for 1 boat is good????
@@donparker4521 That's the Euthyphro dilemma for you.
I've never seen shapiro sit in silence so long. His brain was probably grinding gears.
What a legend Alex is
What 😂
The guys a fucking clown. All his arguments against religion are the same ones 8/9 year olds come up with, just repackaged.
멋있어😊
A " legend " ? Seriously? He's simply a normally intelligent, thinking person who has a nice English accent. Relax. " Legend " Please.
@@philosopher0076😮
@@philosopher0076 people will underestimate all sorts of things. "Yeah he's just a guy who went to Oxford and speaks nicely, he also doesn't believe in abrahamic religions like every normal person in Europe"
Man, he's been a public figure since when he was a kid and, as far as I remember, he just DOESN'T slip, and he's FAST and incredibly precise with his thoughts, and then he also presents them so beautifully with no effort whatsoever.
No, there's nothing normal about this.
There's nothing normal about being the best at interviewing world famous personages in long form in the philosophical field.
I'm his age and I still cringe at myself because stuff comes out of my mouth wrong when I talk to the baker or at the post office or whatever. But yeah this is normal, Alex isn't lol
“Oh fuck, better say great a lot so I can come up with some bullshit.”
He explained it perfectly they cut the clip off, go watch the whole thing not a 10 second clip
@@Farbs he got owned just like it was explained in the Hebrew Bible 😂
Lmao😂
@@Farbsthen explain it here since it was done “perfectly” 😂😂 cause he def looking iffy right here
Shapiro is a weasel-voiced coward borne of privilege.
Ben shapiro fumbles when a real intellectual debates him.
There’s no fumble at all… God permitted things in the past, but it’s hard for Ben to defend his point when Christianity is the only truth out there. Since the Hebrew Bible is part of Christian text, it’s important to recognize the distinction between the old and new covenant. Everything became different after God became flesh and dwelt amongst us. As for this debate guy, he conveniently goes up against those that aren’t actually a follower of God. It’s impossible to debate these issues unless he gets a real Christian, and I’m not talking about the professing type, the only real Christian is the one to do the will of the Father and whoever does that will surely belongs to the Lord, then God will be able to debate rather than what humans could say
@@MLGB0Yz he's debated like more people such as Jordan Peterson, popular British Christians, and even some muslims and he won.
@@CoolManCoolMan123 I think you misunderstood me because I don’t think Jordan Peterson is a real Christian, he just started really believing in it not too long ago, and Muslims are just as satanic as Jews, Christians are the only true followers and genuine Christians are so few that you may never meet one in your lifetime.
But he's Jewish not Christian isn't he? Also Alex has debated Christians and usually has a stronger argument than them. @@MLGB0Yz
@@MLGB0Yz “God permitted things” is a bit of an understatement. He commanded atrocities to happen in his name simply due to other tribes worshipping another god and he was gonna be jealous if a Hebrew stated to even think about doing that. (Deuteronomy 20:10)
How can a perfect god “change” his mind between the old and the New Testament?
I use quotation marks because he never changed his mind on things like slavery since Jesus never condemned it.
This is all assuming god even is real. If he is, he’s evil as hell and there’s no reason to worship that bullshit.
😂😂😂 That look at 0:37 that says 'Oh. I didn't know we were going to remember all the way back to what I said two sentences ago and compare it to what I said next.'
So Ben can pick and chose which bits of the Hebrew bible to obey. Which means the rest of us can safely ignore all of it.
There will always be opportunists who want to misconstrue whatever they can in order to take advantage for their own selfish gain.
Interestingly, two different types of people read the same Bible verses…some loved and promoted slavery while others shed their blood in Civil War to abolish it.
Check your interpretations, but more importantly, check your own heart.
It is not uncommon to desperately find fault with something in the Bible so that you think you can get yourself off the hook from the light that it contains and the coming judgement on the wickedness of this world
No we have to do it - we''re not the chosen ones.
Quran 2:85
Is it that you believe in part of the Scripture, and disbelieve in part? What is the reward for those among you who do that but humiliation in this life? And on the Day of Resurrection, they will be assigned to the most severe torment. God is not unaware of what you do.
@Deeloyal This small short thoroughly disproved the widespread argument that objective morality exists and it is in the Bible or other holy books.
That's it. Objective morality doesn't exist and we define morality ourselves just as we, or our ancestors, wrote the holy books and invented all gods within them
@@jamieclarke2694 Moral relativism is a grade school attempt stemming from a Hedonistic mindset to remove any restraint in order to indulge in whatever, whenever.
Weakened perspectives such as this is what is allowing, for example, Twisted pedophiles to rationalize their wickedness, “minor attracted person”
But why not condone it? In your world it seems that anything goes because it’s all relative, right?
And they call religious people scary.
Nailed him on that one
The idea of freedom never existed before the bible fact
As in democracy real
@@davidevans3223 what are you on? Freedom isn't tied to the Bible, the concept of equal freedom comes from the Age of Enlightenment, and both the ideology and the age is famous for going against Christianity, our current democratic political system is developed in Brittain, and it became the democracy we know today by rebelling against the person who claims to have power on a religious basis (the king/queen of Brittain is technically the leader of the Anglican church), and democracy as a concept actually came from ancient Athena, (today the it's a part of Greece), when the non Aristocrats, the working class "demos" grew in power, and their votes had more political power, this is why it's called democracy. This happened 500 years before Christianity, and the new testament.
Tl;dr religion had many good (and bad) achievements for the European civilization, but freedom and democracy isn't one, and we can see a pattern that freedom as we know today came to existence by going AGAINST Christianity.
@joemaxwell6826and India.
@@davidevans3223oh here we go, Christians giving Christianity credit for things it didn't invent.
If only Ben had been allowed to add a few more "great, great, great, great" he perhaps could have thought of a better answer.
What would have been better is if Ben would have answered with, “I’m not sure, I have not studied biblical “slavery”. Instead you have both Ben and the interviewer looking like dim whits.
By saying “he wasn’t permitting me, he was permitting my great (great x10) grandfather”, you are talking about a different person, but not a different god, nor a different bible. You are implying that thousands of years ago, either god was wrong about morality (and he changed his mind later), or he still believes slavery is ok.
Even if you think god “changed his mind”, or the Bible was wrong, how can you trust any word coming from that book then? Who determines what’s true or false, rather than what you want it to be?
He seems to be suggestiing modern day humans should not be using this Scripture for moral guidance because it's no longer relevant to anyone
When they do this, they're effectively acknowledging that He doesn't exist at all and that the Bible was written by men using their morals of the day.
This really bugs me when theists say that morals didn't exist before God gave them to us.
I treat other people well because it's the right thing to do, and not because I fear an almighty deity.
There is actually more than two cases (let me know if I forgot one):
A - God knows slavery is wrong
1 - but is Ok with it
2 - but couldn't change humans mind
3 - but wanted humans to figure it out
B - God didn't know slavery is wrong
1 - but doesn't want to update the texts
2 - but is not able to update the texts
3 - but wants humans to ignore the texts
Which means that God is either:
- Evil
- Weak and/or limited
- Useless
And in all cases, God is an entity that keeps contradicting itself.
Ben Shapiro likes to change his answers and pretend he didn't.
Sometimes he'll even pretend after he's answered "that's not what I said"
pretend he doesnt belong to a dead religion
Two testaments. Old and New. He gave man choice. Id say you chose wrong. Not to late tho.
Literally just clipping Alex's witty remark it doesn't even paint him as having the upper hand without cutting the video when it does
I love when he does the 2x speed info dump like when you ask Chat gpt a question it can’t answer 😂
Ben Shapiro sweating when he has to debate someone older than 22 is too good man
He’s not even that much older than 22!
I hate him (Alex). The magnificent, young bastard.
What do you mean? He debates people older than students all the time.
@@TPRM1not that much older than 1.124 x 10^21
"oh shit, this guy graduated"
True-except that Alex could own idiots like Ben when he was 17.
Slavery is now considered immoral, but yet they still read the book that permitted it in the first place😂
They don't just read it. They adhere to it. But only when it fits what they now believed to be right.
When I read the Bible, I didn't find a part permitting slavery, only a part that put harsher and stricter rules around it.
The "relativism" isn't as we usually consider it as, the dependency on opinions, but on the alternative. I'd rather be a slave for the Ancient Israelites under those rules than without such rules.
@onlyelias7299 ah so slavery is fine if the slave owners have some vague rules?
@@onlyelias7299leviticus 25 44-46
@@johnchambers9836I'm certain that there were laws for slaves in America. For instance a slave owner could not kidnap a slave from another plantation. That's theft.
So by dudes logic it's fine. Lmao
My favorite part is when Alex tells Ben that crediting Judeo-Christian values for things like the Enlightenment and Social Justice movements seems like giving yourself credit for "fixing" atrocities you started.
And the funny thing is none of these people ever use the Islamic Golden Age as an example of religion resulting in greater enlightenment. Why is that?
Because Islamic Golden Age is based on cultural stealing.
Well in some ways, Christianity at most fixed their atrocities. Islam went the other way, in that they were at the forefront of the scientific movement, but they’ve sadly spent the last few centuries essentially doing away with most of it (although, it should be stated their contributions still have helped the western scientific world).
@@fizz03 Will never understand why Americans and Europeans single out Islam as a proof of religion being dangerous when these good Christians tried to enslave, subjugate, or exploit the entire world that didn't look like them, feeling their faith entitled them to it.
Christianity is 600 years older than Islam and what started to "fix" Christianity was ironically the influx of scientific and cultural insight ushered in by Islamic scholars and artists in Asia and Africa.
Europe ain't special guys. Almost annihilated an entire hemisphere for resources and said their God vindicated it and then took people from another continent and made them their property.
Glass houses, guys. You and I are not special.
Well, it's not that hard to examine a culture / people group like "The Church", i.e. Christians, for their breadth of contributions to the world, from the worse to the better. IF you are being intellectually honest. Otherwise, you will be prone to discount tacts and truth in favor of a false narrative that Christianity had only done bad things. HINT: It's not binary, Christians have committed evils AND done great things for humanity. ( If asked, pretty sure Christian apologists would acknowledge the Islamic Golden Age, but these kinds of debates are not about Islam. It's rather unfair, if not disingenuous, to criticize Christians for engaging in Atheist-Theist debates and not mentioning Islam's Golden Age. Isn't that obvious? )
Still....they are all abrahamic religions.
I've never seen Ben panic so much from a simple question 😂
😂😂😂
He always sounds like this, though
Many times. Basically, whenever he's challenged on anything.
@@meina0614 the way he pauses and tries to think of a way to dodge the question is priceless
Did he panic? Maybe the dude did get him with that question, but the clip cut out before we could get a complete thought from Ben🤔
Ben’s voice says ‘I’m fucked, his IQ is over 100’
Tbf, we didn't get to see Ben's response. It conveniently cuts out. I'm sure both made solid points.
@@aaronoconnor2638 Tbf, he probably made the case for moral nihilism so as to level the playing field and cover his religion`s ass.
More like, "I'm fucked, his IQ is over 80!"
@@aaronoconnor2638Go watch the video. Shorts aren’t exactly a full-length debate.
@@aaronoconnor2638Do you think that there are solid points to defend slavery as a moral behaviour at any time in history?
Not fair, Ben wasn’t debating a 29 year old minecraft streamer about who gets to be in Boy Scouts
people who think ben is relevant or smart probably only watched his stupid rebuttals on equality
Shitpiro!
Dude gets real fucking quiet when he not in a room full of inexperienced 19yo huh?🤔
He was debating a 24 year old here and lost. Kudos to Alex
@darkness8488 Donald Trump has more power than all the atheists in history combined even without a presidency. To say Ben is irrelevant is burying your head in the sand. He influences people to take political action. To suggest he can be dismissed is stupid considering he is extremely intelligent and his arguments appeal to millions. I am an theist, staunchly critical of religion's role in society and I would say its a desperate need to address everything ben shapiro says.
@@JBHACKSAW TRump has more power? His inbreds didn’t show up the last 3 times he “Called them to action over his unfair indictments” all the MAGA’s have don’t since Jan 6 is pay his legal bills!😂😂😂😂
As for Shit Stain Shitpiro dude gets real fucking quiet when he is up against some with a functioning brain 🧠 stem! Look up Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s interview with Shitpiro that DRAWF got shut down big time like the fucking BETA he is!
ben shapiro crumbles when he's not arguing college students lmao
Look how easily Shapiro crumbles when he debates someone who isn’t a college freshman
Didn't crumble this clip was edited to not let him respond 😂
@@canonator176tech7watch the full interview buddy or keep crying for poor Ben.
@@jacobsmith8914 I did watch the whole interview buddy so you would know I'm right if you could get Cosmic Skeptics dick out of your mouth
@@canonator176tech7 he was saying it was accepted back then & at the same time he saying morality is objective, like this's straight bullshit
@@KingDarkHQ good to know you didn't watch the whole interview either
I always love when these conservative grifters have to debate someone with a brain instead of beating up on college kids.
I don't think Ben Shapiro is a grifter, though. I think he is actually sincere in what he says.
@@mackenzieusher8025Sincere but wrong lol
@@charlottemacmaster3221 Oh yes, agreed
@@mackenzieusher8025A Jew that’s ok with white superiority
To be fair Alex is not long out of college himself.
Thought we got our morals from god? Or are we cherry picking again mr theist?
Cherry picking isn't a legitimate accusation.
It'd be like saying "in the story you like and base your moral system on someone in it acts immoral!" Check mate?
This is nonsense
@@FlawlessP401you had a stroke while writing that
@@FlawlessP401 except they are talking about the specific laws given by god. Not one specific human action.
@@FlawlessP401 God isn't just "someone" in the Bible.
@FlawlessP401 no, thats not whats happening here. the cherry picking is at play when you say, my morality is superior to yours because it comes from this book of morals from my god and u point to moral promotions but ignore promotions that imply an opposite morality.
Like "turn the other cheek" but also, "an eye for an eye"
Or "love your neighbor as u love yourself" but also, "take your slaves from the people around you". If u have to ignore obvious contradictions to ur claim, ur cherrypicking.
Ben discussing immortality while he has no issues with the war crimes committed against the Palestinians.
Immorality*
Palestine probably shouldn't have started a war, then.
@@axldave9940 they didn’t.
They are occupied.
@@Hakeem357
They're occupied with losing the war they started, sure.
@@Hakeem357
Occupied with losing the war they started, sure.
It's so good to see Ben Shapiro disconcerted and unable to "destroy" a man making a valid and irrefutable point.
It is _not_ irrefutable. I have written a comment refuting it myself. It's actually a really bad question and completely disingenuous.
@@nono7105how so?
@@nono7105That, sir, is because you're what we call in the industry, a LIAR.
@@IanD-ut4dy No, I'm not. I have refuted it on this very video. Go look for my comment.
@@nono7105 How exactly do you expect us to look for your comment? We are unable to access a user's commenting history on a TH-cam short.
The mental gymnastics by Shapiro to justify the unjustifable must be exhausting.I know I am tired of it
So why is ANY slavery immoral michael, whether as it was in the bible, or at any point in human history.
Says who?
@@rolysantos First, give one example of a person or people WILLINGLY putting themselves into the position of a slave. Good luck and name your source.
@@michael1345
1. I never said ANYone "willing put themselves into the position of a slave."
2. But, In the bible, people DID put themselves willingly as slaves, it was a form of indentured servitude.
Deuteronomy 15:16-17
3. Answer my question.
I asked why is ANY form of slavery immoral.
Pick whatever form of slavery throughout human history is "unjustifiable" or immoral and then answer;
Says WHO?
Name your source.
@rolysantos in what scenario is it justified, also providing a source for something based on morals is near impossible provide me with a reputable source that say slavery IS morally justified
@@rolysantossays the human nature, we're born with some moral values, like not killing, not harming others. even when slavery was common around the world, im pretty sure people did see it as immoral, but it was either so profitable that it couldn't be ignored or abolished, or it was a part of society that if someone refused to partake in it, they would be ridiculed and mocked. and there is also the question of POWs, so it was kinda necessary in pre-modern warfare, but it was still immoral. all it had tk take was someone putting themselves in the slave's shoes and they would feel empathy, our ancestors were not robots you know, they have the same moral compass and feeling we do now. at least that's what i think
GOT HIM! TALKING REALLY FAST AND USING BIG WORDS DOESN'T MAKE U SMART OR A GOOD PERSON!
When you debate someone who’s not just a collage kid 😂
....😮
it's college my guy
@@nickmacpherson6898 well that’s even worse. If he can’t even win a debate with a collage student, imagine an actual academic. He’s a coward.
College honestly just makes you less intelligent most times.
@@Darkness96302 in other words, getting an education makes you more stupid. 😂
He should have just said 'great, great, great . . .' until the interview was over.
Underrated comment
after 5000 greats..
*looks at his watch
"Great!"
😂😂👌🏻
The reality is that Ben doesn't know if his ancestors were Jews or not. The genealogies were lost for most of the Jews during the first century.
He also doesn't have the knowledge that he should have of the Old Testament and the reason for the structure of slavery and it's laws in the nation of Israel.
It isn't a question of morality. It was a question of survival. Jews sold themselves into slavery to other Jews when they got into financial trouble. They were not forced into it. It was voluntary. There was no welfare system in place.
Facts don’t care about your feelings Ben.
Lmao I wanted Alex to say it to his face so bad
@@somnathghoshal103he did I think
wild swing and miss, inappropriate
Keep projecting more maybe one day the fact will care about your feelings child
@@adeptusfantasticus 350 pound mom's basement fanboï spotted.
Yeah, moral relativism depending on time frame doesn't make a lot of sense when you're dealing with an allegedly benevolent, all-knowing creature
He absolutely owned Ben. I love that guy. He's just a reflected calm and collected person. He has no need to proove himself, just making his points.
Lmao you obviously didn't watch the whole thing if you think this is legit.
@@FlawlessP401 keep coping.
@@FlawlessP401u poor thing. This must be really hard for u. Feel free to help ur boy out, why would god permit an immoral act? Why does it matter what people thought at the time?😂 didn't god give all kinds of commandments to stop doing things they were doing?
I hate what religion does to one's ability to reason. So glad I got out of it so I'm allowed to think now..
@@shannonkey9926if you were not thinking because of religion, I seriously doubt you are thinking now.
Religion does not impede your ability to reason, that is based on your own personal laziness to examine the world with your mind. Don’t blame religion for your complacency
@@DatbiolaguyReligion can impede rational thought if you are indoctrinated into it and taught by people that you trust that the rational thinkers are wrong. Fear and trust play a huge role there. Fear of burning in hell, and trust of the people that raise you. People under conditions like these can be coerced out of trusting even their own rational thinking.
Religion is a hell of a drug, and it can fuck people up in all kinds of ways.
Ben needs to be careful who he sits across from because this guy just reduced Ben to a stuttering mess.
God i wish i could reduce ben shapiro to a stuttering mess
He literally answered the question
@@killcount4750 And by doing so, it proves that he isn't using objective morality here, which is the point that Alex wants him to make. You can't make a case for objective morality when you only use it sometimes.
@@YuVen3487
How can you get objective morality from a religion as it requires subjective belief for it to be considered at true.
@@lewis72Yea it’s incoherent logic. I don’t know how we just blindly accept such a lack of critical thinking as adults.
From the same people that swear the Bible is their moral guidebook and insist that “God never changes”
Anything too blatantly unacceptable from the Old Testament is cancelled out by the New Testament no explanation needed, but the underpinning principles of the religion are in the Old Testament so they have to keep it intact, my head would explode if it has to contain this cognitive dissonance and more
@@zzzzzz69 the entire premise of Christianity is a moral relativist position. The new testament overwrites the old, because God changes his mind whenever he wants.
God never changing refers to his nature, not his commands.
@@littleboots9800 wow
God never changes but times always change,that is the difference as well as God owns everything as well as sustains everything. thanks
Ironically, "who's the moral relativist here" owns Shapiro.
Ben can only debate students fresh outta high school 😂
The truth is there are smart high school students who could beat Shapiro in debate if they were prepared and he didn't control the mic
I’m sure there are.
@ToneDC1 me?
Back when i listened to him 7 or so years ago he would openly say that religious discussions are the hardest for him because you can intrinsically believe a belief system but have a gripe with the baggage. It's like saying you believe in the freedom of the US but have to gripe with the fact it was built on slavery - on this basis you cannot defend representative democracy
Yup. Him and Charlie Kirk
What Judeo-Christian traditions made slavery immoral? The Bible never condemned slavery and it was abolished in spite of it.
none, its people not really the bible verses all the way through or willfully being ignorant and mis quoting it.
That is because slavery is normal working relationship in the old times.
It is much difference than the 1800s American black slavery.
Pls note all slavery in the old testament is voluntary. Not forced. And they got paid upfront for their labor for a few years. 🙏
@@Jocky8807 Not true. This only applied to the servitude of Israelis to other Israelis. Completely different rules were in place for foreigners. Leviticus 25:44 states that slaves and their children will be property forever.
@@Raptor302
Leviticus 25:44-46 NIV
[44] “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. [45] You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. [46] You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
=> you "can" make them servant for life. This old time servant that works for your father Can now work for the you.
=> whether or not he/she want to work for life, it is the slave choice.
Deuteronomy 15:16-17 NIV
[16] But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, [17] then take an awl and push it through his earlobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life. Do the same for your female servant.
Add note: old servant working for you is a burden. They (he and family) eat and not as strong. Imagine your worker age 70, and wants to works for life to you. How much cost you have to bear.
I meant if your employee age 70 and say want to work for life to American employer. Would the company accept it? In the old testament law, this is the worker choice. And the employer has to comply for appreciation of his lifelong.
And has to do the same for female slaves. Which was considered worthless at that time as most labor required strangth.
And in spite of all the sincerely held religious beliefs of the evangelical bible-belueving Christians who defended slavery vigorously to the point of going to war to make sure they could continue to own other human beings.
Ben talks fast and even he can't keep up with the bullshit that comes out of his mouth.
That the awareness and knowledge of the moral law is found in varying degrees in different cultures is not an argument for moral relativism, but for the imperfection of human knowledge and awareness.
In the words of Hitchens “back when they thought they could get away with it.”
Give these Christian theocracy proponents full political power today.... inquisitions, moral police, witch burnings, book bans, science persecution and stone age laws will immediately return.
Look at the Islamic theocracies....it is one of the most important facts....that the separation of state and church needs to be protected, preserved and defended....
....or else anyone not like them is doomed.
There will always be opportunists who want to misconstrue whatever they can in order to take advantage for their own selfish gain.
Interestingly, two different types of people read the same Bible verses…some loved and promoted slavery while others shed their blood in Civil War to abolish it.
Check your interpretations, but more importantly, check your own heart.
It is not uncommon to desperately find fault with something in the Bible so that you think you can get yourself off the hook from the light that it contains and the coming judgement on the wickedness of this world
@@Deeloyal Your interpretation is by definition subjective
@@tegathemenace This generation loves moral relativism… same old Hedonistic techniques to dull the god-given conscience to embrace and indulge perversion. Oh wait…. Who can define perversion? There’s no wrong or right in the creeds of Atheism
Said the guy who died from throat cancer.
why don't they apply the same logic to homosexuality?
Great point.
Who is they?
@@rennyskiathitis8178 christians, jews, muslims, etc.
Ben is pro gay marriage
That's gay dude.
Hilarious that he gets Ben Shapiro to admit his own religion is outdated.
It’s not, Ben had a bad answer that isn’t representative of what’s described in the Torah.
Ben isn’t Christian
@@Upsidedownmangt No capitalist is.
It became outdated during the first century when they rejected their messiah, their King, Jesus Christ.
They handed Jesus over to Pilate for crucifixion. As Jesus predicted the Roman army came, destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, and scattered the Jews.
They were finished except for a small remnant of them that believed that Jesus was the messiah, that he rose on the third day, that Jesus is king of kings , LORD of LORDs.
Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Bep isn't smart enough for this conversation
I would love to hear Ben's answer. It kind of cut off before he had a chance to respond to the moral relativist accusation.
Go watch the full video then. He never answers it.
I wouldn't.
The answer was basically that at the time, everyone had slaves, and rather than ban the practice outright, and probably people rejecting the religion, instead it was liberalizing, and easing the effects of a practice that already existed, and was ubiquitous.
😂
@@rodneythundercockso “it is wrong but less wrong than other practices then contemporary” which is textbook relativism.
'If I keep saying great, maybe he'll forget what he asked.'
Also I don’t think it’s that many greats if his ancestors did have slaves
Hahaha
@@Jay-lit
Three thousand years, thirty years for a generation, that's about a hundred "greats" (as indicators of generations.)
come on boys. Biblical texts are not condoning slavery, taking things out of context is a great great great great fun game, isn't it?
Barbaras who was set free, a murderer in the place of Jesus means murder is permitted? No. Quit twisting the word.
"if I end the clip before Shapiro responds, they'll all think I pwned teh conservatards"
If you ever need to wonder if Ben would own slaves if it was socially acceptable, this clip proves it. His defence for why God allowed it back then was “the people who had a voice didn’t mind it back then.” Like if Ben was transported back to the Civil War, he’d be on the side of the slave owners and probably buying a slave or two himself.
If it was socially acceptable there qould be no issue you would too ...its not quite the flex you think that is...there is plenty yo attact Ben on but that's reaching
Ben believes in ABSOLUTE morality and sees "god" as the author of morality. If he is being honest with his religious beliefs, why then should he conform to society standard, to the point of justifying god's immoral support for slavery? Isn't that moral relativism as opposed to absolute morality he claims to stand for?
@@easydoggythe word "flex" has been banned for 5 years by the Society For Improvement of the English Language. Carry on.
@@easydoggy theres plenty of things i do that arent socially acceptable and plenty of things there are that i dont do. Dont assume everyones an npc because you are.
this has "hold on hold on, hold on hold on, hold on hold on" energy
His initials, BS, isn't a coincidence.
Never thought of that 😂
COHENcidence
😂
@@stadiumarcadium2351motivated
Na, I'm pretty sure it is 😂
The hypocrisy is astounding. Pick and choose what stays and what goes. But make sure to follow the Bible! SMH.
There are more slaves in the world today than any time in American history. Yet you give no shits about them. That's hypocrisy.
just like this clip, the maker of which picked and chose what to keep and what to leave out and cut off to make it look like Ben didn’t have answers
And by Ben's logic it was not considered immoral amongst the Nazis to... Well... Ben's moral relativity gets exposed pretty quickly.
Wasnt considered immoral? What about the fucking perspective OF THE SLAVES?
Depends, I mean, some masters treated their slaves decently or even well, and it was seen as mercy as they would not be killed by their conqueror, but if they slaughtered the boys and women who have had sex, and only left the girls for themselves, and (likely) used them however they pleased (as Moses instructed his soldiers), they were probably seen as monsters who would have mistreated their civillian captives. And those born under slavery may have just acknowledged it as a fact of life, as they did not know being free, or as a great injustice they couldn't do anything about.
@@mr.cauliflower3536 so because they didn't know they were humans they didn't qualify as humans. Got it
because they hadn't considered it immoral, it wasn't immoral from their perspective@@roznai
@mr.cauliflower3536 being born a slave is quite rare in human history, American chattel slavery was uniquely cruel in that regard. A lot of slavery through human history was basically debt repayment. Yes, in war, children would be made slaves, and sometimes debt could pass to a child and that child would become a slave, but typically speaking, it's cruel even by biblical standards for an infant to be a slave just because their parents were.
@@SJNaka101 but it's not cruel if they can't define the word cruel right? Cus you require words to understand cruelty? Idk lmao I still can't believe someone took the slave masters side in fuckin 2024. GOD DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO WHAT YOU WANT ANYMORE
The way Ben defends this point is frightening. No reasonable person would defend slavery. Religious brainwashing makes people do and think terrible things.
I consider my self a reasonable Christian and will defend slavery even now,even from a Christian perspective as i would say everyone in jail right now is a slave of the state. God punished His people the Jews by making them all slaves for a time as well as punished those around the Jews by having them slaves for a time.God owns all and created all and sustains all thus He can and should run the show. thanks
You're comparing biblical slavery with western slavery? You realize those who went into slavery back then was a form of a job right? The working conditions were rough for those who abused the system but it was a means to provide for their family. God's word gives us a glimpse into that. In fact, slaves were considered a part of the family unit and wealthy people had to pay taxes for each one. The slaves held an importance in a family's reputation so they had to be treated well. It would be like a modern day maid. Nothing like the slavery we learned from in the WEST. Learn about historical facts to gain a greater understanding. There will always be abuse in any system. Even the work force now, even our own government and military.
@@joman388most brainwashed people (such as yourself and as I used to be) do consider themselves reasonable and not brainwashed. Its not easy admitting your parents, gaurdians or loved ones might be wrong about certain things and might not know everything about life. Its not easy, but it is possible. I know cause I was able to admit it after many years of brain washing and fighting the truth.
@@ElloSheerio Your comments prove my point perfectly. Sounds like you cannot accept (or refuse to accept) the immoral parts of the bible. You bring up "western" slavery vs Biblical slavery....this shows you have very little knowledge of slavery in general. You probably just choose what you want to believe, to keep your mind intact. You should be ashamed of yourself for your defense of this subject. You sugarcoat slavery (people as property) like it's a vocation. You seem indoctrinated.....maybe you'd defended that too. Indoctrination is mental slavery.
@@grasshopper9488 you actually need to do more in deoth study on the history of Biblical slavery my friend.
I'm not from U.K. but I'll use their terminology. Brilliant, Alex was simply brilliant.
Indeed he was indubitably and utterly astounding
How is that UK terminology?
@shoutatthesky, well, he's speaking the English language it's not French terminology is it, dum dum 😂😂😂
"oh no! intelligence! my only weakness!" -ben shapiro, bursting into flames
Atheist always get excited with these shorts, speak or taking the Bible literally...
Ben is pretty annoying but here he's right, nowhere in the Bible god commands to take and keep slaves forever...
He allowed Jewish people back then,
Hence the great great great great parents thing....
This was amazing
Is this a Holocaust joke? How prude
@@AnimationWizard what the heck are you on bozo
@@Monkest joking lmao
Not an 18 year old college student Ben...tough huh?
Ben :if I speak faster maybe I'll win
Funny how you have problem with this but not with cutting out any response from Ben.
@@martinsoukup562he’s a clown puppet
And squeakier 😅
Yes, and if you put him in a setting where people have time to respond normally and think for a second he tends to break down, because he's a fallacy peddler.
@@martinsoukup562that’s how the gotcha crowd works
It's not often that Ben is wrong, but it appears he is wrong here. As a Christian, this is also raising questions for me
Ben is wrong
He is wrong quite often.
God was working with what he had at the time. The culture started somewhere and he met them where they were at. Humans and their understanding of morality have evolved to where we are now with the help of the truths He has revealed to prophets since then. He can only work with imperfect human beings and with the knowledge and willingness they have at the time. He gives them knowledge little by little, building on the things they know and slowly helping them (and now us) perfect ourselves, whittle ourselves into better people.
There’s some really cool stuff that has come out about how when Jesus came, he was a radical in his treatment of women, for example. He took the Jews where they were at and taught them principles to guide them toward being better. Check out Lynne Hilton Wilson’s Emancipation of Women book or lecture, it’s pretty eye-opening.
There is also so much most of us in our modern situation don’t know all these years later about their civil system and situation and the structure of their society and the way people were actually treated and the labels we see meaning something today vs what they meant in their society back then. We have to be careful of presentism and really do some deep dives into the history of the past to get answers. Critics of the Bible can judge ancient history by today’s standards but that won’t get them very far because life was very, very different back then.
Owning people is wrong. But in this case, Alex did it perfectly.
This comment needs more likes😂
@@uncreatedlogosfor real😂😂
My man Alex just took a big dump on him 😂
Ben trying to word vomit his way out of hearing the gotcha was too damn good lul
There's a reason being called a fast talker is an insult.
There was no gotcha here. The interviewer, like Ben, has no clue what biblical slavery was. And by all of the comments neither do any of you.
@@mboxerman2 Doesn't the bible tell us about biblical slavery?
@@mekajinn7523 it does, but “biblical” slavery is not what we know as slavery. It was indentured servitude. In my original comment I mentioned these things. HaShem laid out specific laws when it came to “slavery”, one such law is that absolutely no harm was to come to the slave by the master.
@@mboxerman2 So do you think that slavery as described in the bible would be moral if enacted today? Is it suddenly moral because it only takes most of their rights away, instead of all of them?
Religion meets its deadly enemy. Logic.
Logic isn’t its best friend, I know because I believe.
Not any religion, only Judaism and Islam
The core principles of many religions are logically and morally sound, just the extra fluff falls apart under scrutiny. Those core principles (similar to the 10 commandments) were very important as a guiding force to tame our animalistic instincts take us out of savagery. Any historian wouldn’t deny that.
@@tonalambiguity3345 Probably and many people see it that way, but that isn’t according to the bible. Those rules came just directly from God. They aren’t all completely understandable as being self evident.
@Masterdeath16and Christianity
Show me where in the bible god says “oh but by the year 1900 or so slavery won’t be cool anymore”.
Very solid argument by Alex against the supposed moral superiority in religions.
I don't know a single moral atheist, the ones I know are resentful selfish jerks, but I haven't met all of them.
@@dutube99you described most Christians I know
Ben imploding like usual..
Well honestly he only really implodes on the religious topic bc it's inherently illogical (idk why he even debates it) he's pretty sound on his political debates, it's a shame that religion can blind otherwise rational people.
@@dain6492nothing about Ben is logical. He talks fast and “debates” those that are not prepared for debate. There is a reason he declines most actual debate prepared individuals and other such professional philosophers.
@@dain6492 "he's pretty sound" 😂 his arguments are either sound or not.
@@dain6492you probably just listen to Little clips of him talking about trans people in sports and think wow what an amazing argument 😂
@letusdebatenow na I'm a daily wire subscriber and listen to his daily podcast. I don't agree with everything he says but he's pretty on point most of the time.
"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool." -- Voltaire
Voltaire was an asshole
and no one knows Voltaire
I do.
*tips fedora*
Love that
Is there a place online to watch the full conversation?
If we get our morality from God, then why is what was considered moral then no longer considered moral now? It's a simple enough question.
New Testament read it
@@shogo359 Simple question. Answer it.
Are u talking about slavery? Slavery in the bible is not really slavery that we think of. It’s more like indentured servanthood. Israelites sold themselves into slavery if they needed to pay off debt or were too poor to live on their own. Another Israelite would usually be their “master”. But the bible says to treat the slave as a simple worker. They are to treat them with respect and give them food, clothes, and shelter. There is one situation where the Israelites were at war and disobeyed God and left some of the gentiles so they took them in as slaves basically so they didn’t rebel against them in the future. There was also a law given down by God for gentiles to own Israelites in certain situations and they were to treat them with respect as well. Slavery wasn’t abolished completely during this time period but God doesn’t always work on our timing and his timing is usually gradually. He is all knowing so he would know the future to come and it was Christians that came to realize that slavery needed to be abolished forever. It also wasn’t like it was back in the day for the Israelites. God made us in his image and is fully against the slavery we talk about today. The slavery God laid down had regulations within moral law. Anything outside of that is against God.
@@BigCatchMemesI think you should read your bible a bit more carefully.
@@BigCatchMemes If God knows the future then everything is set and thus there is no free will.
Ben, that was embarrassing. Do you feel no shame?
Seriously, justifying the ethics of Christianity while asserting God and his following as the unquestionable supreme moral standard... with the goddamn Bible as the canon material, it's so wretched and embarrassing, Hitler surely believed he was a good guy too
Shame has left t building, as Ben exits.
he would have stopped after his arguments got dunked on by aquaman if was capable of that feeling.
Every once in awhile Bens opinion differs from mine or is incorrect,that doesnt make the rest of what Ben says incorrect as most of what He says is very correct. thanks
@@joman388lol most of what he says is BS from everything I've heard from him so far.
Ben simply cannot hold up an argument against someone who is actually educated 😅
It’s was either slavery or genocide. Slavery was at one time, was the most moral choice.
Yeah but he’s using that to prove Ben is a hypocrite not that it wasn’t considered immoral then
Slippery Shapiro. Can't get out of the corner he backed himself into.
Remember : Facts don't care about your feelings.
Yes, and nobody cares about Ben’s feelings on the bible
@@JustinG1057 Torah. Not the bible. The entire old testament is just the Torah which is what Ben was completely brainwashed into believing. He believes he's a chosen one and everyone else is here to serve.
@@Connection-Lost He talks about the Bible all the time when he grifts as someone who leads Christians, but I see your point.
isn't he jew? why defend Christianity?
It was me Barry, I'm the moral relativist.
The call was coming from inside the house.
Remember when you were reading scripture, and you sinned right as you flipped the page?
@@SimmiusDeltane I beg your pardon
@@AvatarNeo "Remember when you were making out with your first girlfriend, and you came right as she touched your leg? It was me, Barry."
I just went along with your joke. :(
@@SimmiusDeltane Ah, took me a second
Oh that was so beautiful to watch! It was like one of those mathematical proofs by contradiction where you do this complex setup, things that don't seem to have much to do with each other, and then you pull the rug and suddenly it clicks and you have the contradiction you were looking for
It’s so awkward when reasonable people using logic talk to religious folks.
religious doesnt equal unreasonable lol.
Alex simply made a great point
This is a huge problem for the dogmatic religions with everything written down and claim it's the word of God.
But atheists can't fashion a moral code at all. Atheism leads to might makes right.
Christians abolished slavery in the West, atheists did not do that.
@@Noah-xn5th Religious beliefs are based on LACK of evidence. Unreasonable, by definition.
Shapiro debating someone who actually prepared for a debate and not just random students?
"maybe if i say great enough times, he'll forget what he asked me and i wont have to answer" 😬😬😬
Just giving himself some time to think
@@Oakenlix didn't do him much good did it 😅
“If I can talk really fast, they might think I’m intelligent and truthful.”
"Well then what are you for?!" -Stephen Fry
A brilliant quote from a brilliant debate...
Ben's face honestly looks like he's never considered this before lmfao. Astounding.
Being religious just ruins Bens whole "facts and logic" schtick.
Which is why he's constantly being a hypocrite. He'll forever struggle to argue facts over feelings whilst always whining about his feelings.
If I repeat 'great' enough times, then hopefully everyone will forget I cannot answer the question.😅
“It wasnt bad then, so the values of my holy book are still valid”
That wasn’t the point , it just shows how stupid you are but still how eager you are to make an idiotic “sarcastic” remark.
It’s not moral relativism and Ben explains it right afterwards and has explained it in many debates . Famously Jordan Peterson explained it to a group of thousands of atheists -
If you were in a time where pedophilia(consetual) was commonly accepted practise and you were the ruler , would you just pass a law giving death sentences to everyone involved in pedophilia (slavery) or would you try to plant seeds of thought, mitigating the harm in short term but extinguishing the practise in long term ?
@@pratikharwal is that analogy still applicable to an omnipotent god and supposedly timeless writing?
@@sirjoesphjoestar8361 yes, there’s no rule or commandment explicitly ordering people to engage in slavery , but actually mitigating the inhumanity in the practises of slavery, which are seeds of thoughts that builder up to make people realise to abolish slavery. Even if you believe that god isnt real , this fact is undeniable.
And no one(as far as I know) said a religious book is objective morality , god is objective morality abd his 10 commandments are the foundation to build on realising objective moral codes,ethics and practices.
I love how you demolished Ben Shapiro in this debate. It fills me with joy.
But he didn't 😂
@@dd-ph9fv You obviously didnt watch it, then. His wife is a doctor, if you didn't know (he broadcasts it frequently enough) - maybe she can prescribe you with something to cope harder.
@@dd-ph9fv Actually, yes, he did.
There will always be opportunists who want to misconstrue whatever they can in order to take advantage for their own selfish gain.
Interestingly, two different types of people read the same Bible verses…some loved and promoted slavery while others shed their blood in Civil War to abolish it.
Check your interpretations, but more importantly, check your own heart.
It is not uncommon to desperately find fault with something in the Bible so that you think you can get yourself off the hook from the light that it contains and the coming judgement on the wickedness of this world
Never trust a man in a funny hat for moral guidance.
@jacobperez6426 look for its origins, and then tell me it's not ridiculous.
@@jacobperez6426lmao.
@@whitewings2363they just wear it as a sign of respect for god. you’re just being hateful, this isn’t a criticism of any sort of truth claim. you’re just insulting tradition and symbolism. that’s hate for a culture. it isn’t okay.
criticizing religion is important but criticizing harmless cultural aspects is really disgusting, i don’t care how much of a troglodyte ben shapiro is.
Anti-Semite
Ben when he is not debating 18yo freshman teens: ☠️
Fast talkin' high trousers is no defence against education and logic.
This is what happens when Ben Shapiro has to debate some one that is at his level instead of college freshmen.
At his level? Nooooo. Alex O'Connor is waaaaaaay beyond Shapiro's level. It was embarrassingly evident for everyone to see.
@@IanD-ut4dy I meant that Shapiro was finally debating someone that is AT LEAST at his level. Not some ill prepared college freshman.
Damn I haven’t seen Ben that dumbfounded in a long time
He usually chooses a sympathetic interlocutor when he discusses religion, and we can see why.
It’s literally cut before his reply, FOX News style. Wtf are you talking about? It doesn’t even show his face after
There is no such thing as Judeo-Christian morals. Christianity is the direct refutation of Judism.
Glad I found someone who said this, I absolutely agree, and more people should be aware of this
@the98themperoroftheholybri33 Hell, Islam has far more in common with Christianity than does Judism. For all that it is a barbaric religion.
>Judiasm
Jesus was a deciever and a false prophet who practiced black magic and is being punished for eternity by being boild alive in feces. Nothing of his life is true and he was an evil man. They also killed Christ as he was condemned in a council of Rabbi prior to his Crucifiction
Islam
Jesus was born a virgin and healed the sick, he was a prophet of the Lord and ascended to heaven to sit by the side of the Lord God. He will return at the End times to gather thr faithful.
Which one seems more in line with the Christian worldview?
christianity is the continuation of judaism. unless you're telling me jesus refuted the existence of moses, abraham or the entire old testament
@@abhi5504 Is Islam the continuation of Christianity? No. Of course not.
If Judism ceased to exist it would be the continuation. Look where Jews think Jesus endsd up, it is not pleasant. He resides in a lake of boiling feces.
Compare that to Islam where he is a Prophet of the Lord God, born a virgin, healed the sick and will return before the End Times.
You have been lied to by them. Judeo-Christian values are like Vegan-Carnivore. They are mutually exclusive.
@abhi5504 Jesus refuted the importance of certain cultural practices such as circumcisions and the sacrificial goat.
You're another person ignorant of the importance of Jesus and his mother Mary, Mary is the new Ark and Jesus is the Prophet come forth.
When Ben says "He's not permitting me... he's permitting my great x grandfather" - I'm confused because there aren't any disclaimers such as this book is valid only till 1899 or whatever. If god permits something to your greatxgrandfather, then 'he' permits you because of the absence of time markers in the Bible. Or they have to agree that they're reading an outdated/ irrelevant book.
Bingo
Even really smart people can't defend indefensible bullshit.
And people who arent really smart, like ben shapiro, definitely cant lmao
@godless1014 like you wouldn’t have your own slaves if you could back in the day 😂
@@dragonmartijngood thing you're on board with being pro homosexuality then!
You defend it every time you tell a lie. You do it every time you look at a woman with lust. You do it every time you steal. My Sin wasn't as bad as hitlers sin was. So on and so on. You defend immorality every time you see it and do nothing.
@@dragonmartijnso your point is? That it’s ok to have slaves as long as everyone else is doing it….or that the Bible truly is a load of crap?
Imagine Hitchens debating Shapiro ? That would have been gold.
Like a pit bull against a chihuahua