The person who built his brand around rationalizing lack of general strength uses a potential deadlift-specialist whose most (and only one shown) impressive department is the deadlift to sell his brand.
Why did anyone ever take Jeff seriously? His expertise was always in injury prevention, but he worked for professional baseball teams. Baseball players are usually less athletic than most gym bros.
@@joalvarado8506 well, I never took him seriously, and at the time I made that video I truly thought that people like Alan Roberts would feel the same way. Look how that turned out 😂
I'm glad more "lean" people are suggesting this these days. I've been preaching it forever (and have always advised not pushing it to the level I have, as I willingly sacrificed some fitness for more absolute strength). If it takes non fatties for the message to finally sink in, then I'm here for it anyway.
We pretty much all figure it out through experience. The dishonest of us go on drugs and continue to lie about it or pretend we're strong by hyperspecializing. The honest ones admit that weight and some fat gain is inevitable and ideal in the long run(if you're initially built like Jack Skellington)
I'm sure that natural proclivities also play a role in the path we all end up taking as well. But I don't think there's any question at this point that being ATHLEAN ain't the way to maximal fitness 😂
@@EnkiriElite I think Nick Symmonds is a good example of a natural and pretty successful runner who figured out that he can't sustain that at 35+ at the same competitive level that he was when he was younger, so he's now dabbling in powerlifting(eh, a start). Even Kneesovertoesguy is doing a bit more weight training and planning to eat more to add muscle where his tendon strength is. Neither of them are even close to ATHLEAN so that's pretty telling. And I think hyperspecialization is only bad when the person(s) dont stay in their lane, which people don't anymore due to social media IMO. Too many powerlifters, for example, flat out lie about their lack of general conditioning caused by their sport.
Finally someone coming up with a sensible approach to the one-million dollar question. I'll go check on AthleanX's channel to see if I see any associate links for the 'special' equipment I need to purchase. Thanks 😉
It really just depends on what constitutes strong. I would say it's going to be quite difficult to be shredded, vascular, and be squatting 700+, benching 450+, and deadlifting 800+ naturally. The trap size and neck size are always a dead giveaway.
Agreed for sure man. I was thinking kind of like "strong for the every man." So well above average strength for gen. pop. while staying pretty lean is probably achievable for majority of people. If you're talking getting locally/regionally competitive in PL and staying super lean then less people will be able to do that. And then if you're talking strength that would nationally competitive or elite while being lean, then very very few people will be able to do that. But I think most people (outside of serious lifters) would consider "above average" to be strong, and I think most people can achieve that strength level + leanness with the right work ethic.
Bald Omni Man is working on the bench one lol 330 swiss bar pause larsen press at 185 but he’s over 6 feet so him being 185 makes him lean and he’s not fully strength peaked yet
Great video. I’m someone who fell prey to leanness obsession thanks to content creators like Athlean-X. Lost several years of potential progress, but you live and you learn. Incredible NH impression, thought I clicked the wrong channel for a sec.
You had me with the funny NH impression & Skeletor comment. 😂 My opinion falls somewhere in the middle as “maingaining” or lean bulking worked incredibly well for me personally for a variety of reasons while staying between 8-12% BF for most of my long training career (& lifetime natty). However, I also believe bulking and cutting can be very effective too depending on the person & their unique goals & lifestyle (with the caveat being that the bulk & cut are not extreme & stay within reasonable & healthy boundaries).
I think it also depends on how we define it all too! You called what you have done maingaining....but fluctuating between 8-12% body fat while also gaining muscle (meaning there could actually be significant gains in body fat in an absolute sense during that time but the percentage doesn't increase all that much) could actually lead to pretty large increases in scale weight! Basically one man's "bulk" might be another man's "maingain." But i think the most relevant point here that I was trying to get at that is that Jesse I think hasn't really really gained any weight at all? He is currently 155lbs and I believe they said he was 155lbs 3-4 years ago also. That is simply suboptimal for most people and is going to hamper the long term product.
"Maingaining" isn't the same as "lean bulking". A bulk means you are eating at a calorie surplus, "lean bulking" just means it's a relatively small surplus. "Maingaining" would mean you are eating at maintenance, not at a surplus.
@@redhawkmillenium Doucette’s intended definition of maingaining is either a small surplus, a short term large surplus, or maintenance. The point is that you would avoid the need to cut if you aren’t overshooting how much or long you need to be on a surplus which to me makes more sense. I know a big surplus gives you more energy but the opposite of that would mean less energy on a cut
@@KurokamiNajimi It means whatever he wants it to mean while still acting like there's no reason to "lean bulk". It's useless, inconsistent advice that often ends up pushing people toward restricting calories to the detriment of their training.
@@redhawkmillenium No it means what I just said. If you pay attention to pretty much any channel they’ll see things that sound contradictory or not entirely accurate if you aren’t smart enough to read between the lines. Anyone who actually thinks you can without a surplus forever especially when you’re already approaching your genetic limit for leanness isn’t gonna get far even after they start bulking
Same bodytype here (mechanically gifted to pull off the floor) Very relatable video to those of us who once struggled to make it to an intermediate level on other lifts without going up on the scale. My experience: I've been gaining weight very gradually for the last 3 years and my overall strength and muscularity has improved substantially. I went from 160 lbs (2019) to 180 lbs (now in 2022). On average I've put on around 6.5 pounds of bodyweight per year. I no longer have the visible lower abs, but instead I have a more resilient, better-suited armor to handle the increasing demands of training. Something that was very difficult to do when I was 'lean obsessed' around 10-12% bodyfat. Goal: I'll keep going up in weight to around 188-190 lbs (sometime in 2024). That mark will put an end to my multi-year 'lean' bulking phase. I'll keep you guys posted 🦵💪🚀
People get so deluded with what's considered strong by social media. Many lifters just want to get stronger and be stronger than the average person, but alot of lifters get pulled into comparing their lifts to elite numbers, which is a recipe for failure. The reality is, if you can bench even just 185, squat 225, and deadlift 315+, you are stronger than the average male. Nothing wrong with striving for more that that, but the only time I've seen a 315 squat considered "weak" is on the internet.
@@martynas5757 exactly, if you don't care about reaching elite numbers, there's nothing wrong with being happy with how strong you are, but still continuing to improve.
@@anabolicamaranth7140 thats another thing, I'm personally striving for getting as strong as I can WITH beautiful form. I'd rather be able to squat 405 with beautiful form, ass to grass, as upright as I can be vs. a say, 600 pound squat thats ugly and questionably high. I also consider a beautiful 405 more impressive than an ugly 600, but thats just me
Jeff got my 2 first years of training straight up fucked up by what he said. "You can build muscle in a deficit" yea... you can. But give me more context, I was a total newb, 63kg @181cm height. My weight didnt move up in 2 years, I was a veiny skinny weiner. Fml.
Ooof that's a tough one man. I agree it is not a *technically incorrect* statement...but at a minimum it should come with several asterisks if you're going to say it
thanks enkiri, I’m shredded asl now. and have developed an eating disorder trying to stay 9% body fat . and freak out after a meal if I see a small blur over my abs. totally relatable video
People really don't understand the dangers of being obsessed with leanness, vascularity, and abs showing 24/7 until they've been there for a while naturally. I fully blame drug fueled bodybuilding and partially calisthenics assholes for this pervasive issue.
You're not wrong man! It messes with your outlook once you can see that your body doesn't want it anymore and you start trying desperately to hang onto it. You can see the effects it has taken on jeff at this point, his eyes are always sunken for example....and I'll be honest, I don't think he's doing it fully naturally either and it's STILLS taking a toll on him.
@@yoeyyoey8937 somebody made the fantastic point of posing the question in reverse....staying perpetually lean to what end? So he can deliberately keep himself smaller and weaker than he has to be? Just for the sake of having abdominal definition? This doesn't really make sense either.
@@EnkiriElite exactly lol he is just implying that you should sacrifice fitness and health for apparent leanness. Which reveals what he thinks or assumes his audience is actually interested in, and which ofc he’ll have no problem enabling
@@EnkiriElite I dont think any sane person would think Jeff is the least bit natural. He's too old and frankly not knowledgeable enough to be at the stage he is at his age especially(sans biceps). He has that death face AND his skin looks like it lacks buoyancy. He likely avoids carbs and drinks as little water as possible before shoots, along with his few compounds to stay that low without feeling the big S-dal. Sad seeing as that's his channel's gimmick and he's pretty much the biggest fitness social media person.
Great video Alec, actually reponding to the claims and not just insulting Jeff like some others do. The claim you can't be BIG, lean, strong and natural would be more accurate. Not to take anything away from Jessie but he is not very big at all.
Agreed, adding that "big" qualifier is another tough monkey wrench to navigate! It would make the process as a whole take longer, and it would me the maingain idea being espoused by Jeff here essentially an impossible route to take.
Yeah, I'd agree, you can get stronger overtime without necessarily putting on a ton of additional bodyweight, it's just that it would take a while longer. My best squat at 155lbs was 315lbs for a few sets of 5 or so, while my bench was somewhere like 225lbs for 5. When I bulked up to 185lbs, I got a 5x10 for 365lbs squat, a 315 close grip bench, and a 395lbs for 10 DL. It all depends on your goals of course, and part of the reason I bulked up was because I plateaued hard, and wanted results as soon as I could. Being too lean could also be an issue with impacting performance, and long-term strength progression, but this is easily solved at just staying at a healthy 12-15% bodyfat.
This is why I prefer defecit deads/ good mornings over deadlifts, going through the full range of motion for better aesthetic and higher maintenance calories
@@OMAR-vk9pi If you get strong through a more complete range of motion you will have better development and be able to eat more calories without getting fat
Alec ripping Athlean-X apart is also a great start to the weekend Edit: Just finished the video, and just wanted to say that you really hit on a lot of good points on this video man, especially about Jesse being impressive on the DL is not really transferable to a more general concept of strength, and how this plays into the "strong, lean and natty" statement. Anyways, you really showed in this vid that you have more knowledge than the vast majority of youtube fitness.
I’ve always had a pretty low bfp for my entire life. I’d be surprised if I ever got above 12% but honestly would guess it’s lower, more like 10% at any given time. I’ve also been able to gain a decent amount of muscle and a high amount of strength. But your point still stands. That’s not in an insanely low, body builder level, of body fat and I’ve slowly gained pounds over the years, being the muscle I’ve put on. So main gaining works but you will gain weight at least in muscle. Personal prs 455 squat, 365 bench, 520 deadlift at 163 body weight.
Skinny people (like me!) are always called Skeletor. Always struck me as weird because Skeletor is totally jacked. Same build as He-Man. (Great points, too. I loved the video.)
@@fichshreds2661 Thanks, man! I don't mean that I'm skinny NOW (although I've still got a thin bone structure). I just mean that back when I was, that was a super common nickname. Seems like most skinny people I know were called it, too.
9:06 this is a phenomenal point if you listen to your body as you train, it'll tell you how much to eat. I swear if you listen close enough it'll tell you what to eat.
I find the better approach is just to get 2% stronger at every single movement and lift every week and to not worry about what it does to your body. Seems to work for everyone who actually sticks with it.
First off, there is nothing unhealthy about being 20% body fat! Second, Jessie was introduced as Jeff's hard-gainer sidekick. It is cruel to use his leanness as a model for the general population. It's almost the same as fake natties giving false expectations to the unenhanced. Finally, somehow Jeff & Greg don't seem to understand bulking simply means two protein shakes added to a maintenance diet.
Dude, this is a really fair point as well. You are completely right that given the context of how Jeff has played Jesse as a part of the channel that it makes these current claims even more insincere.
TBF, Jesse always seems like Jeff's whipping boy in some way in the few vids I've had the misfortune of watching. I don't know what their actual relationship is like, but it wouldn't surprise me if Jesse is just an incredibly useful business asset to Jeff. Jesse probably needs someone to help his weight gain problem and it sure as hell isn't gonna be ATHLEAN. I know a good amount of the people Greg is targeting when he says "maingain", so I cant blame anything he expouses about that other than the intentionally controversial way he phrases it. Too many casual lifters honestly believe that a bulk is 800+ calories and Greg has gone on record(not enough times) saying that he considers "maingaining" to be about 300+ calories(basically your same idea of 2 protein shakes without high calorie milk).
@@111kino i recommend you check out Revival Fitness he documents just how wrong your assessment is. Greg's videos on "maingaining" are extremely inconsistent.
@@Abraham_Kist-Okazaki I watched him for a few years. I know just how inconsistent he is, and that's mostly based on how defensive he's being(IE. controversial) at any given moment. I don't know about his nowadays stance, but he's shifted so much into drama and clout farming territory that I feel bad for anyone who takes him sorta seriously anymore.
Fat doesn’t move weight muscle does. While gaining fat does make you gain strength in the short term there is also a point of diminishing returns. I gained 35 lbs and my lifts didn’t improve that much…
@@EnkiriElite no you did not. I’m just stating for some of the comments bellow. I’ve met guys who were 300 lbs and were so weak they couldn’t even bench 200 lbs. that was my point.
We've all been there man. I'm happy to hear that my content has motivated you to keep pushing! Best of luck staying clear of those dark times in the future.
AX's entire premise is to be a channel by hardgainers, for the hardgainer target market. They're not TRYING to look as lean & lanky as they do, they just look like that & trying to gain strength & muscle. Hence "let the gains begin". None of AX's content applies to easygainer stocky types who just look at a barbell & gain muscle but also just look at a donut & gain visceral fat.
I’m guessing Jessie can’t rep 225 on bench after years of training . Heaven forbid he lose visibility of two abs in order to build basic foundational strength on anything other than deadlift.
Yeah I don't know why athlean-x's training philosophy is so hyper-focused on leanness. In his video he says you could gain body mass (including some fat) and get stronger in absolute terms, but to what end. My counter-question to him would be, you can stay at sub-10% bodyfat and get strong slowly, but to what end? What is the amazing benefit of being super-lean? It seems like a pretty pointless hassle to me. You can gain size and strength quicker by bulking up a bit. Not trying to maintain a super-low bodyfat also means you have more freedom in terms of diet, you can actually enjoy your food instead of having to stick to a super-strict diet regime. Moderate levels of body fat, even going up to 20%, are perfectly healthy. Many lifters also report feeling more energetic and having a better mood overall when above 10% bodyfat.
@@axoltl1 exactly to everything you said. It kinda reminds me of how kinobody over emphasizes leanness, but at least he gears his whole brand towards “aesthetics” a bit moreso than actual athletic performance, so I kinda get it. Jeff’s whole thing is “train like an athlete” while preaching to people to stay shredded and not look like an athlete. It just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
Jeff Cavaliere has experience in physical therapy. Injury prevention is definitely useful, but his time with the sport of professional baseball always makes me wonder what “athletes” he’s really trained. Baseball players are usually less athletic than most gym bros. No wonder his knowledge is skewed in the wrong direction.
@@axoltl1 this is such a great synopsis dude. You are absolutely right that flipping that question right back onto Jeff speaks volumes in and of itself. The state he advocates for aa a chronic means of being is simply suboptimal...it's just not congruent with human physiology.
I would like to see Jessie up his body fat a bit and improve his strength numbers. It would be pretty cool to see “if it works “. If it works , Jeff is wrong and if it doesn’t work then we were wrong.
I don't think Jeff is saying it won't help him build strength. According to Jeff being strong is not as important as being lean so in his eyes even if it 'worked', for him would be pointless. That's the issue with Jeff he talks about training like an athlete all the time but for some reason regards actual strength as being secondary to being lean.
@@krishnagodale3200 makes sense but isn’t it weird how athletes are in the 10%-20% of body fat and Jeff is in single digits body fat and portrays as being an athlete and looking like one. Kinda weird huh
Let's see Jesse's ohp. That's the lift that will show the merit of Jeff's programming. Can you get Jesse's OHP to 125. With Jesse's long ass arms, that would impress me.
The saying isn’t lean and strong and natural, it’s PICK TWO - lean - massive - drug free This is true but only when you define lean as very lean year round, and massive as like 220+
I really really don't like athlean x I used to. But the whole fake weights debacle that was it for me if one of his videos even accidentally plays on my phone while I'm doing dishes I'm like fuck no. I decided not to be natural because I have a mild physical disability so absolute strength is good for my quality of life. But I like the way you and Alex and even natural hypertrophy think about things, you can get what you want if you put the work in I fully believe that. I think it's funny that Jesse has got to be hands down way stronger than Athlean x by now. Maybe the argument would hold up better if he said you can't be shredded brutally strong and natural
I'm 5'8, 190lbs and can deadlift 600lbs for a few reps. But, I know full well it's cause I'm "built for it", I got really long arms, short torso, long legs. It's easily my best lift, with BP my worst. Squat is meh, though I've currently got a few injuries that hinder real progress with that. My best OHP is 180lbs for a single, and I doubt I could still do that now, as I was grinding that lift regularly, tweaked my forearms a bit, and backed off the heavy presses for a bit...... Then I ended up switching to Kettlebell training almost exclusively. But I can still pull 600lbs for reps! I got 3 last time I tried (back in January).
@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 idk my BF tbh, I'd say under 20% cause I can ab outlines and serrataus, aswell some bicep veinage. My BP was 245 max, 200 for five. Haven't tried it in awhile though, never liked it too much tbh.
@@a_fuckin_spacemarine7514 Preach. I think that's the value in deficits for people like us because it takes away that natural advantage and lets you get a stimulus not just to ego. As for bench, I just do dumbbells because of freer range of motion. Doesn't seem to matter the weights on barbells, my shoulders just start feeling it the most when I do enough reps and it honestly doesn't feel worth it. Zercher squats have been more comfortable for me than back squats(and back squat ATG felt better than parallel) so I suggest finding weird variations that works for you rather than trying to beat to death traditional stuff that don't feel right no matter what you do.
@@aymerickravelet233 I'm actually currently doing exclusively calisthenics, due to an injury I got from kettlebell training. Eventually I plan to throw in some weighted pullups and pushups.
I think you can’t be as strong as you potentially could if you get single digit body fat. Insofar as the word strong relates to a general standard of strength I think most peaked out natties could get lean and strong in a general sense. But if they were to get extremely lean they almost definitely can’t lift as much as they would at 15-20% body fat.
alec i noticed in some previous videos that you use the freelap timing system for your sprints. where did you go to get that? i've been looking in to buying that
I enjoy bulking and I found a bit of fat aesthetic. My strength has shot up too. I don't care about being lean at all, I just want to be big and strong.
15/20% looks amazing to me especially if you have lots of muscle. Being super lean makes you look small as a natty imo. Unless it’s summer or something being 15/20 seems perfect for looking not fat but big in clothes and feeling good;)
@@loosecannon6142 if your in clothes and having muscled then 20% is highest I would go so I agree but I do not think anything wrong w bring it for a while.
exactly everything is subjective, Im 33 and can kick my 24 year old ass, even though I was training everyday in boxing running 3 miles 4 times a week. the barbell really has changed my health for the better. But I wont be winning any powerlifting meets anytime soon lol.
Hey Alec, I have a question for you. How strong do you think someone with awful genetics can get , let’s say on the big three, ohp, and weighted pull ups? I don’t think I have awful genetics but I would like your opinion on the hypothetical potential of someone who trains consistently hard for 5-10 years.
How much does our hypothetical friend weigh before weight training and how tall is he? Frame size is going to be a huge factor. That said, regardless of the specifics here my answer is always going to be "higher than he thinks." That is, if he *actually* knuckles down and does the work for 10 years CONSISTENTLY while adhering to proper diet and recovery protocols then he will go a lot farther than he thought he was going to go. The problem is actually in getting people to do the work consistently for a decade, especially if they come into it thinking they have "bad genetics." That usually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, but the primary culprit there is mindset, not genetics, imo.
@@EnkiriElite Dude, I really love your answers. You da best! You're probably completely right about the mindset. I was gonna ask for some standards anyway, but honestly, fuck it man. I was watching Pete Rubish and Clarence Kennedy talk about how the reason some people get really strong and other people don't is genetics. What I failed to realise at the time was that these guys are extremely exceptional, so probably a 4-plate squat single or triple or something is weak as shit to them. Anyway, thanks for replying bro, you're doing God's work. Keep it up!
how does this apply to weoghted calisthenics where beginners could make alot of progress by gaining some weight but will see a loss in performance in the short term?
Calisthenics people can stay pretty light and lean because they're more concerned with body control but the best ones(not on drugs) tend to not be twigs because you quickly start dabbling in weighted exercises and that can become brutal on the joints and lower back without padding(and you can only push but so much if you're intentionally undereating).
Shorter distance to travel due to more overall mass in the requisite areas and more cushion to push against when you bottom out. JM Blakely explained it pretty well with his JM press. Basically, more forearm meat gives padding at the bottom of a bench press to push from. Similar with chest circumference, it reduces the ROM necessary to bottom out. It literally becomes an entirely different lift based on body tissue. Similar to people with long arms vs short arms.
@@Demon-Psychiatrist he's so bitter about people responding to his content that he flags it all so that he will get the ad revenue for it 😂 gtfoh dude. Last thing I was going to do was let the money go to his channel. I saved a back up copy of the video with all of his clips cut out in case I needed to upload that one instead. This one still might get flagged tbh
I haven’t watched one in quite a while now. He does still have decent info to share at times on certain topics, but there’s too much “other” stuff that’s fluff, clickbait, or nonsense that I got fed up & couldn’t watch anymore unless I had a good reason to.
Haha na, his title was facetious. He is actually arguing that you CAN achieve all 3 of those things! Which I think is great to be honest. I just don't necessarily like the way he is advocating going about achieving it...which is essentially just "maingaining" (shocker).
The person who built his brand around rationalizing lack of general strength uses a potential deadlift-specialist whose most (and only one shown) impressive department is the deadlift to sell his brand.
That is basically the long and short of it lol
And Jesse doesnt even use Jeff's programs
Why did anyone ever take Jeff seriously? His expertise was always in injury prevention, but he worked for professional baseball teams. Baseball players are usually less athletic than most gym bros.
Yall jus haters bruh
@@joalvarado8506 well, I never took him seriously, and at the time I made that video I truly thought that people like Alan Roberts would feel the same way. Look how that turned out 😂
I love Enkiri's energy! Always smiling/laughing/energetic but also consistently respectful and articulate. We all should aspire to be like him!
Hey man, thanks a lot for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
Jesse has eaten in surplus phases, trained intelligently with real progressive overload, and now is evidence against the Athlean bodyfat range.
I'm glad more "lean" people are suggesting this these days. I've been preaching it forever (and have always advised not pushing it to the level I have, as I willingly sacrificed some fitness for more absolute strength). If it takes non fatties for the message to finally sink in, then I'm here for it anyway.
You're results speak the truth
We pretty much all figure it out through experience. The dishonest of us go on drugs and continue to lie about it or pretend we're strong by hyperspecializing. The honest ones admit that weight and some fat gain is inevitable and ideal in the long run(if you're initially built like Jack Skellington)
I'm sure that natural proclivities also play a role in the path we all end up taking as well. But I don't think there's any question at this point that being ATHLEAN ain't the way to maximal fitness 😂
@@EnkiriElite I think Nick Symmonds is a good example of a natural and pretty successful runner who figured out that he can't sustain that at 35+ at the same competitive level that he was when he was younger, so he's now dabbling in powerlifting(eh, a start). Even Kneesovertoesguy is doing a bit more weight training and planning to eat more to add muscle where his tendon strength is. Neither of them are even close to ATHLEAN so that's pretty telling.
And I think hyperspecialization is only bad when the person(s) dont stay in their lane, which people don't anymore due to social media IMO. Too many powerlifters, for example, flat out lie about their lack of general conditioning caused by their sport.
I disagree Alec! You can be lean, strong and natty, you just need to use Jeff’s special 45 plate 😈
I still need to get me some of them special 45s bro!
Finally someone coming up with a sensible approach to the one-million dollar question. I'll go check on AthleanX's channel to see if I see any associate links for the 'special' equipment I need to purchase. Thanks 😉
Silvester Stallone might have some
It really just depends on what constitutes strong. I would say it's going to be quite difficult to be shredded, vascular, and be squatting 700+, benching 450+, and deadlifting 800+ naturally. The trap size and neck size are always a dead giveaway.
Agreed for sure man. I was thinking kind of like "strong for the every man." So well above average strength for gen. pop. while staying pretty lean is probably achievable for majority of people.
If you're talking getting locally/regionally competitive in PL and staying super lean then less people will be able to do that.
And then if you're talking strength that would nationally competitive or elite while being lean, then very very few people will be able to do that.
But I think most people (outside of serious lifters) would consider "above average" to be strong, and I think most people can achieve that strength level + leanness with the right work ethic.
Bald Omni Man is working on the bench one lol 330 swiss bar pause larsen press at 185 but he’s over 6 feet so him being 185 makes him lean and he’s not fully strength peaked yet
@@KurokamiNajimi Not disagreeing with what you said but BOM is 5'11"
@@krishnagodale3200 isn’t he 5'10"
Great video. I’m someone who fell prey to leanness obsession thanks to content creators like Athlean-X. Lost several years of potential progress, but you live and you learn.
Incredible NH impression, thought I clicked the wrong channel for a sec.
Glad to hear you have been able to dig your way out of the training rut man! And thanks for the props regarding the NH impression haha.
He said it… it all started with me falling for that Joe Momma Joke on my live Q&A.
Mike Israetel is next
@@ElloYuchub We have to create an HQ for base of operations for future 'activities' 😂
@@ElloYuchub Did somebody request him to do it, or did he say it of his own accord?
@@tan-yildiz discord server or instagram group or a subreddit?
@@axoltl1 nothing of that sort has happened but we'll get him too
You had me with the funny NH impression & Skeletor comment. 😂
My opinion falls somewhere in the middle as “maingaining” or lean bulking worked incredibly well for me personally for a variety of reasons while staying between 8-12% BF for most of my long training career (& lifetime natty). However, I also believe bulking and cutting can be very effective too depending on the person & their unique goals & lifestyle (with the caveat being that the bulk & cut are not extreme & stay within reasonable & healthy boundaries).
I think it also depends on how we define it all too! You called what you have done maingaining....but fluctuating between 8-12% body fat while also gaining muscle (meaning there could actually be significant gains in body fat in an absolute sense during that time but the percentage doesn't increase all that much) could actually lead to pretty large increases in scale weight! Basically one man's "bulk" might be another man's "maingain."
But i think the most relevant point here that I was trying to get at that is that Jesse I think hasn't really really gained any weight at all? He is currently 155lbs and I believe they said he was 155lbs 3-4 years ago also. That is simply suboptimal for most people and is going to hamper the long term product.
"Maingaining" isn't the same as "lean bulking". A bulk means you are eating at a calorie surplus, "lean bulking" just means it's a relatively small surplus. "Maingaining" would mean you are eating at maintenance, not at a surplus.
@@redhawkmillenium Doucette’s intended definition of maingaining is either a small surplus, a short term large surplus, or maintenance. The point is that you would avoid the need to cut if you aren’t overshooting how much or long you need to be on a surplus which to me makes more sense. I know a big surplus gives you more energy but the opposite of that would mean less energy on a cut
@@KurokamiNajimi It means whatever he wants it to mean while still acting like there's no reason to "lean bulk". It's useless, inconsistent advice that often ends up pushing people toward restricting calories to the detriment of their training.
@@redhawkmillenium No it means what I just said. If you pay attention to pretty much any channel they’ll see things that sound contradictory or not entirely accurate if you aren’t smart enough to read between the lines. Anyone who actually thinks you can without a surplus forever especially when you’re already approaching your genetic limit for leanness isn’t gonna get far even after they start bulking
Same bodytype here (mechanically gifted to pull off the floor) Very relatable video to those of us who once struggled to make it to an intermediate level on other lifts without going up on the scale.
My experience: I've been gaining weight very gradually for the last 3 years and my overall strength and muscularity has improved substantially. I went from 160 lbs (2019) to 180 lbs (now in 2022). On average I've put on around 6.5 pounds of bodyweight per year. I no longer have the visible lower abs, but instead I have a more resilient, better-suited armor to handle the increasing demands of training. Something that was very difficult to do when I was 'lean obsessed' around 10-12% bodyfat.
Goal: I'll keep going up in weight to around 188-190 lbs (sometime in 2024). That mark will put an end to my multi-year 'lean' bulking phase. I'll keep you guys posted 🦵💪🚀
People get so deluded with what's considered strong by social media. Many lifters just want to get stronger and be stronger than the average person, but alot of lifters get pulled into comparing their lifts to elite numbers, which is a recipe for failure. The reality is, if you can bench even just 185, squat 225, and deadlift 315+, you are stronger than the average male. Nothing wrong with striving for more that that, but the only time I've seen a 315 squat considered "weak" is on the internet.
Depends how you look at it, for elite these number might mean nothing while for average dude its impressive.
@@martynas5757 exactly, if you don't care about reaching elite numbers, there's nothing wrong with being happy with how strong you are, but still continuing to improve.
That’s what I was just telling one of my IG friends who is a black dude and squats well over 400 for reps with beautiful form.
@@anabolicamaranth7140 thats another thing, I'm personally striving for getting as strong as I can WITH beautiful form. I'd rather be able to squat 405 with beautiful form, ass to grass, as upright as I can be vs. a say, 600 pound squat thats ugly and questionably high. I also consider a beautiful 405 more impressive than an ugly 600, but thats just me
@@shaloon64 You can tell a lot about someone by the way they conduct themselves in the gym.
Jeff got my 2 first years of training straight up fucked up by what he said. "You can build muscle in a deficit" yea... you can. But give me more context, I was a total newb, 63kg @181cm height. My weight didnt move up in 2 years, I was a veiny skinny weiner. Fml.
Ooof that's a tough one man. I agree it is not a *technically incorrect* statement...but at a minimum it should come with several asterisks if you're going to say it
thanks enkiri, I’m shredded asl now. and have developed an eating disorder trying to stay 9% body fat . and freak out after a meal if I see a small blur over my abs. totally relatable video
People really don't understand the dangers of being obsessed with leanness, vascularity, and abs showing 24/7 until they've been there for a while naturally. I fully blame drug fueled bodybuilding and partially calisthenics assholes for this pervasive issue.
You're not wrong man! It messes with your outlook once you can see that your body doesn't want it anymore and you start trying desperately to hang onto it. You can see the effects it has taken on jeff at this point, his eyes are always sunken for example....and I'll be honest, I don't think he's doing it fully naturally either and it's STILLS taking a toll on him.
“Sure Jesse could lift more if he gained a little bit of fat…but TO WHAT END??!”
@@yoeyyoey8937 somebody made the fantastic point of posing the question in reverse....staying perpetually lean to what end? So he can deliberately keep himself smaller and weaker than he has to be? Just for the sake of having abdominal definition? This doesn't really make sense either.
@@EnkiriElite exactly lol he is just implying that you should sacrifice fitness and health for apparent leanness. Which reveals what he thinks or assumes his audience is actually interested in, and which ofc he’ll have no problem enabling
@@EnkiriElite I dont think any sane person would think Jeff is the least bit natural. He's too old and frankly not knowledgeable enough to be at the stage he is at his age especially(sans biceps).
He has that death face AND his skin looks like it lacks buoyancy. He likely avoids carbs and drinks as little water as possible before shoots, along with his few compounds to stay that low without feeling the big S-dal. Sad seeing as that's his channel's gimmick and he's pretty much the biggest fitness social media person.
HE SAID IT
No it is not the question what you personally define "strong", it is actually what you personally define as "natural".
With the TRT clowns now being an overabundance, this made me laugh out loud.
Still the best fitness channel. Nice.
Well thank you sir!
Great video Alec, actually reponding to the claims and not just insulting Jeff like some others do.
The claim you can't be BIG, lean, strong and natural would be more accurate. Not to take anything away from Jessie but he is not very big at all.
Agreed, adding that "big" qualifier is another tough monkey wrench to navigate! It would make the process as a whole take longer, and it would me the maingain idea being espoused by Jeff here essentially an impossible route to take.
YES FINALLY WE'VE DONE IT HE SAID IT
I literally said the same thing about Jesse as soon as I saw the original video.
Great job breaking it down.
Yeah, I'd agree, you can get stronger overtime without necessarily putting on a ton of additional bodyweight, it's just that it would take a while longer. My best squat at 155lbs was 315lbs for a few sets of 5 or so, while my bench was somewhere like 225lbs for 5. When I bulked up to 185lbs, I got a 5x10 for 365lbs squat, a 315 close grip bench, and a 395lbs for 10 DL. It all depends on your goals of course, and part of the reason I bulked up was because I plateaued hard, and wanted results as soon as I could. Being too lean could also be an issue with impacting performance, and long-term strength progression, but this is easily solved at just staying at a healthy 12-15% bodyfat.
Why make progress slower than you have to though?
we did it we got almost everyone to say ello yuchub
Ello Youchube!
This is why I prefer defecit deads/ good mornings over deadlifts, going through the full range of motion for better aesthetic and higher maintenance calories
Huh??? 😂😂
@@OMAR-vk9pi If you get strong through a more complete range of motion you will have better development and be able to eat more calories without getting fat
Alec ripping Athlean-X apart is also a great start to the weekend
Edit: Just finished the video, and just wanted to say that you really hit on a lot of good points on this video man, especially about Jesse being impressive on the DL is not really transferable to a more general concept of strength, and how this plays into the "strong, lean and natty" statement.
Anyways, you really showed in this vid that you have more knowledge than the vast majority of youtube fitness.
Glad you enjoyed the video bro! Have a great weekend.
Can't wait for Ello Yuchub to upload "Alec Enkiri saying Ello Yuchub Buhcuy Olle for 1 hour"
Just give me a few minutes lol
I’ve always had a pretty low bfp for my entire life. I’d be surprised if I ever got above 12% but honestly would guess it’s lower, more like 10% at any given time. I’ve also been able to gain a decent amount of muscle and a high amount of strength. But your point still stands. That’s not in an insanely low, body builder level, of body fat and I’ve slowly gained pounds over the years, being the muscle I’ve put on. So main gaining works but you will gain weight at least in muscle. Personal prs 455 squat, 365 bench, 520 deadlift at 163 body weight.
Skinny people (like me!) are always called Skeletor. Always struck me as weird because Skeletor is totally jacked. Same build as He-Man.
(Great points, too. I loved the video.)
exactly my thoughts dude. Skeletor is HUGE, only his face is skinny lmao
also, i don't think you're skinny bro 👍
Maybe skeletor is very skinny and only shows himself to others when he is around good lightining and with a pump so he looks huge?
@@fichshreds2661 Thanks, man! I don't mean that I'm skinny NOW (although I've still got a thin bone structure). I just mean that back when I was, that was a super common nickname. Seems like most skinny people I know were called it, too.
@@lucasgraeff5391 Yep, that sounds like something a skinny dude would do. I think you've solved it.
If alec says leave some love in the comments, you better do it. Great stuff as always man
You da real MVP bro
9:06 this is a phenomenal point
if you listen to your body as you train, it'll tell you how much to eat. I swear if you listen close enough it'll tell you what to eat.
My body always wants Fruity Pebbles by the box and Hennessy by the bottle. idk if this is the way
@@freakied0550haha may have to ignore sugar and junk cravings
Yeah man, appetite has a way of modifying itself according to circumstance (at least for some of us but apparently not for Dennis here 😂).
Any Athlean X response is going to be good.
Hope you enjoyed!
“Skeletors” 😂
I never imagined Enkiri starting a video with "Hello Yuchub". I didn't know what I was missing!
lean, big and natural - u can only pick 2
U should add in a bodybuilding movement for your chest, with a bit more chest development u would look dieseled
Wow even you have joined the club
Great video as always.
I find the better approach is just to get 2% stronger at every single movement and lift every week and to not worry about what it does to your body.
Seems to work for everyone who actually sticks with it.
First off, there is nothing unhealthy about being 20% body fat!
Second, Jessie was introduced as Jeff's hard-gainer sidekick. It is cruel to use his leanness as a model for the general population. It's almost the same as fake natties giving false expectations to the unenhanced.
Finally, somehow Jeff & Greg don't seem to understand bulking simply means two protein shakes added to a maintenance diet.
Dude, this is a really fair point as well. You are completely right that given the context of how Jeff has played Jesse as a part of the channel that it makes these current claims even more insincere.
TBF, Jesse always seems like Jeff's whipping boy in some way in the few vids I've had the misfortune of watching. I don't know what their actual relationship is like, but it wouldn't surprise me if Jesse is just an incredibly useful business asset to Jeff. Jesse probably needs someone to help his weight gain problem and it sure as hell isn't gonna be ATHLEAN.
I know a good amount of the people Greg is targeting when he says "maingain", so I cant blame anything he expouses about that other than the intentionally controversial way he phrases it. Too many casual lifters honestly believe that a bulk is 800+ calories and Greg has gone on record(not enough times) saying that he considers "maingaining" to be about 300+ calories(basically your same idea of 2 protein shakes without high calorie milk).
@@111kino i recommend you check out Revival Fitness he documents just how wrong your assessment is. Greg's videos on "maingaining" are extremely inconsistent.
@@Abraham_Kist-Okazaki I watched him for a few years. I know just how inconsistent he is, and that's mostly based on how defensive he's being(IE. controversial) at any given moment. I don't know about his nowadays stance, but he's shifted so much into drama and clout farming territory that I feel bad for anyone who takes him sorta seriously anymore.
Just hit a 235 lb OHP. Couldn’t even do 220 last week.
Good shit man!
I don't get how some people can rocket their weight up so fast
@@Abbot_ obviously is wasn’t due to tissue gains. Maybe he modified is technique, or neurological adaptations over a short period of time
He said it, We got Bald Omni-man, Alex and now Alec. @Croissant. @Ello Yuchub.
Who next? Jeff cavalier? Larry wheels
Fat doesn’t move weight muscle does. While gaining fat does make you gain strength in the short term there is also a point of diminishing returns. I gained 35 lbs and my lifts didn’t improve that much…
It helps your leverages…
Did I say that fat moves weight?
@@EnkiriElite no you did not. I’m just stating for some of the comments bellow. I’ve met guys who were 300 lbs and were so weak they couldn’t even bench 200 lbs. that was my point.
AX/Jeff looks like Dennis from it’s always sunny when he goes on a crash diet which causes him to faint later on
I have to say bro you definitely motivated me in dark times to train I love you bro
We've all been there man. I'm happy to hear that my content has motivated you to keep pushing! Best of luck staying clear of those dark times in the future.
Solid analysis as usual.
AX's entire premise is to be a channel by hardgainers, for the hardgainer target market. They're not TRYING to look as lean & lanky as they do, they just look like that & trying to gain strength & muscle. Hence "let the gains begin".
None of AX's content applies to easygainer stocky types who just look at a barbell & gain muscle but also just look at a donut & gain visceral fat.
That was a terrible impression of NH but points for trying.
Well, no one can Ello EauChube like NH, but very close.
Geoffrey Verity Schofield did a pretty solid one
5 views, 7 likes, 7 comments.... the community is behind you :D
I’m guessing Jessie can’t rep 225 on bench after years of training . Heaven forbid he lose visibility of two abs in order to build basic foundational strength on anything other than deadlift.
Yeah I don't know why athlean-x's training philosophy is so hyper-focused on leanness. In his video he says you could gain body mass (including some fat) and get stronger in absolute terms, but to what end. My counter-question to him would be, you can stay at sub-10% bodyfat and get strong slowly, but to what end? What is the amazing benefit of being super-lean? It seems like a pretty pointless hassle to me. You can gain size and strength quicker by bulking up a bit. Not trying to maintain a super-low bodyfat also means you have more freedom in terms of diet, you can actually enjoy your food instead of having to stick to a super-strict diet regime. Moderate levels of body fat, even going up to 20%, are perfectly healthy. Many lifters also report feeling more energetic and having a better mood overall when above 10% bodyfat.
@@axoltl1 exactly to everything you said. It kinda reminds me of how kinobody over emphasizes leanness, but at least he gears his whole brand towards “aesthetics” a bit moreso than actual athletic performance, so I kinda get it. Jeff’s whole thing is “train like an athlete” while preaching to people to stay shredded and not look like an athlete. It just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
Jeff Cavaliere has experience in physical therapy. Injury prevention is definitely useful, but his time with the sport of professional baseball always makes me wonder what “athletes” he’s really trained. Baseball players are usually less athletic than most gym bros. No wonder his knowledge is skewed in the wrong direction.
@@axoltl1 this is such a great synopsis dude. You are absolutely right that flipping that question right back onto Jeff speaks volumes in and of itself. The state he advocates for aa a chronic means of being is simply suboptimal...it's just not congruent with human physiology.
NH got roasted for no reason 😂😂😂😂
I would like to see Jessie up his body fat a bit and improve his strength numbers. It would be pretty cool to see “if it works “. If it works , Jeff is wrong and if it doesn’t work then we were wrong.
I don't think Jeff is saying it won't help him build strength. According to Jeff being strong is not as important as being lean so in his eyes even if it 'worked', for him would be pointless. That's the issue with Jeff he talks about training like an athlete all the time but for some reason regards actual strength as being secondary to being lean.
@@krishnagodale3200 makes sense but isn’t it weird how athletes are in the 10%-20% of body fat and Jeff is in single digits body fat and portrays as being an athlete and looking like one. Kinda weird huh
@@dannybautista8817 I blame Ronaldo
I completely agree i was 140 12% bdf in 4 years i got 205 23% bdf, got pretty strong cant wait to cut
I smashed the like button since I haven't forgotten about fake weights!
😂 never forget
Let's see Jesse's ohp. That's the lift that will show the merit of Jeff's programming. Can you get Jesse's OHP to 125. With Jesse's long ass arms, that would impress me.
Great video man!
Thanks dude!
The saying isn’t lean and strong and natural, it’s
PICK TWO
- lean
- massive
- drug free
This is true but only when you define lean as very lean year round, and massive as like 220+
Charlie Kelly’s looking diced these days😄
I really really don't like athlean x I used to. But the whole fake weights debacle that was it for me if one of his videos even accidentally plays on my phone while I'm doing dishes I'm like fuck no. I decided not to be natural because I have a mild physical disability so absolute strength is good for my quality of life. But I like the way you and Alex and even natural hypertrophy think about things, you can get what you want if you put the work in I fully believe that. I think it's funny that Jesse has got to be hands down way stronger than Athlean x by now. Maybe the argument would hold up better if he said you can't be shredded brutally strong and natural
Too lean doesn’t look good especially if you’re natty
Anthropometrically*
I think all Noble Natties should now start their videos this way 😄 like a secret handshake
I knew you'd make this video.
I'm 5'8, 190lbs and can deadlift 600lbs for a few reps. But, I know full well it's cause I'm "built for it", I got really long arms, short torso, long legs. It's easily my best lift, with BP my worst. Squat is meh, though I've currently got a few injuries that hinder real progress with that. My best OHP is 180lbs for a single, and I doubt I could still do that now, as I was grinding that lift regularly, tweaked my forearms a bit, and backed off the heavy presses for a bit...... Then I ended up switching to Kettlebell training almost exclusively. But I can still pull 600lbs for reps! I got 3 last time I tried (back in January).
@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 idk my BF tbh, I'd say under 20% cause I can ab outlines and serrataus, aswell some bicep veinage. My BP was 245 max, 200 for five. Haven't tried it in awhile though, never liked it too much tbh.
@@a_fuckin_spacemarine7514 Preach. I think that's the value in deficits for people like us because it takes away that natural advantage and lets you get a stimulus not just to ego.
As for bench, I just do dumbbells because of freer range of motion. Doesn't seem to matter the weights on barbells, my shoulders just start feeling it the most when I do enough reps and it honestly doesn't feel worth it.
Zercher squats have been more comfortable for me than back squats(and back squat ATG felt better than parallel) so I suggest finding weird variations that works for you rather than trying to beat to death traditional stuff that don't feel right no matter what you do.
pls do weighted calisthenics you have a good potential even in pressing movements
@@aymerickravelet233 I'm actually currently doing exclusively calisthenics, due to an injury I got from kettlebell training. Eventually I plan to throw in some weighted pullups and pushups.
@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 yea, DB press always worked better for me
I think you can’t be as strong as you potentially could if you get single digit body fat. Insofar as the word strong relates to a general standard of strength I think most peaked out natties could get lean and strong in a general sense. But if they were to get extremely lean they almost definitely can’t lift as much as they would at 15-20% body fat.
Yes I haven't forgotten about the fake weights. Auto-like. Has he apologized for that yet?
Lol no, there will be no apology in our lifetimes.
alec i noticed in some previous videos that you use the freelap timing system for your sprints. where did you go to get that? i've been looking in to buying that
If I remember right I bought it from simplifaster.com/
Ello Utube
Hybrid athuleete enjoyer checking in 👋
I'm a strength ath-uh-leet guise
I enjoy bulking and I found a bit of fat aesthetic. My strength has shot up too. I don't care about being lean at all, I just want to be big and strong.
15/20% looks amazing to me especially if you have lots of muscle. Being super lean makes you look small as a natty imo. Unless it’s summer or something being 15/20 seems perfect for looking not fat but big in clothes and feeling good;)
@@psilocybinenthusiast3695 20% is waay too high. You wont have any decent definition in your arms, shoulders or pecs
@@loosecannon6142 if your in clothes and having muscled then 20% is highest I would go so I agree but I do not think anything wrong w bring it for a while.
exactly everything is subjective, Im 33 and can kick my 24 year old ass, even though I was training everyday in boxing running 3 miles 4 times a week. the barbell really has changed my health for the better. But I wont be winning any powerlifting meets anytime soon lol.
Hey Alec, I have a question for you. How strong do you think someone with awful genetics can get , let’s say on the big three, ohp, and weighted pull ups? I don’t think I have awful genetics but I would like your opinion on the hypothetical potential of someone who trains consistently hard for 5-10 years.
How much does our hypothetical friend weigh before weight training and how tall is he? Frame size is going to be a huge factor. That said, regardless of the specifics here my answer is always going to be "higher than he thinks." That is, if he *actually* knuckles down and does the work for 10 years CONSISTENTLY while adhering to proper diet and recovery protocols then he will go a lot farther than he thought he was going to go. The problem is actually in getting people to do the work consistently for a decade, especially if they come into it thinking they have "bad genetics." That usually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, but the primary culprit there is mindset, not genetics, imo.
@@EnkiriElite Dude, I really love your answers. You da best! You're probably completely right about the mindset. I was gonna ask for some standards anyway, but honestly, fuck it man. I was watching Pete Rubish and Clarence Kennedy talk about how the reason some people get really strong and other people don't is genetics. What I failed to realise at the time was that these guys are extremely exceptional, so probably a 4-plate squat single or triple or something is weak as shit to them. Anyway, thanks for replying bro, you're doing God's work. Keep it up!
Impressive deadlift sure but how many years has Jesse been training and he is weighing in at 155lbs??? He’s at least 6’0 so he’s not short
They said he's been going for about 5 years now
how does this apply to weoghted calisthenics where beginners could make alot of progress by gaining some weight but will see a loss in performance in the short term?
Calisthenics people can stay pretty light and lean because they're more concerned with body control but the best ones(not on drugs) tend to not be twigs because you quickly start dabbling in weighted exercises and that can become brutal on the joints and lower back without padding(and you can only push but so much if you're intentionally undereating).
Is chest a weak point for you? (No offense)
OMG NO WAY
I think it's anthropometricly 🤔
Why is pressing the most correlated to bodyweight?
Shorter distance to travel due to more overall mass in the requisite areas and more cushion to push against when you bottom out. JM Blakely explained it pretty well with his JM press. Basically, more forearm meat gives padding at the bottom of a bench press to push from. Similar with chest circumference, it reduces the ROM necessary to bottom out. It literally becomes an entirely different lift based on body tissue. Similar to people with long arms vs short arms.
Alan Roberts is going to make a video titled "Athlean X is right, the hater agrees."
Hahaha I don't think that man has enough grasp left on reality at this point to make that video.
Was that a natural heterotrophy into?
Nvm u just confirmed it
the more I look at jeff he really doesn’t look lean he looks anorexic
you are in to G4P With jason blaha?
ello yuchub NH sir would be impressed
But I can be slav
Is Jeff being natural still a debate ?
For many people I believe it would be, yes.
Algorythm comment dont mind me :)
Jesse is too skinny. He should try to put on 10 lbs and see how he looks/feels.
When did Jeff and Jessie turn into Alvin and the Chipmunks?
Since jeff started flagging every single bit of his content. Lame
@@EnkiriElite I love that TH-cam sticks up for the little guy*heavy sarcasm*
@@Demon-Psychiatrist he's so bitter about people responding to his content that he flags it all so that he will get the ad revenue for it 😂 gtfoh dude. Last thing I was going to do was let the money go to his channel. I saved a back up copy of the video with all of his clips cut out in case I needed to upload that one instead. This one still might get flagged tbh
Ello
11:25 😂 100% true
spending too many days in the gym? kali muscle says that if you don't have abs you should sleep in the gym hehe
People still watch Athlean X vids?
None of these subscribers I hope
I haven’t watched one in quite a while now. He does still have decent info to share at times on certain topics, but there’s too much “other” stuff that’s fluff, clickbait, or nonsense that I got fed up & couldn’t watch anymore unless I had a good reason to.
His views are dropping. 300-400k views at an average for a channel with 12 million subs
He’s pretty much ran out of ideas atp
What’s a deadlifters build long legs and long arms?
Long arms, short torso, short shins, not sure about femurs. Probably short femurs too so your hips would be closer. Big hands if you’d count that too
@@Kyle111 well I got long arms and a short torso
@@OMAR-vk9pi then you'll probably do well!
@@OMAR-vk9pi nice
Plot twist:
Dbol and tren
Hahaha something like that.
Wait he really said that? What a dummy. What would he know about strength or being natural?
Haha na, his title was facetious. He is actually arguing that you CAN achieve all 3 of those things! Which I think is great to be honest. I just don't necessarily like the way he is advocating going about achieving it...which is essentially just "maingaining" (shocker).
@@EnkiriElite oh OK. I didn't watch. I think you can stay normal people lean while bulking but definitely not athlean x lean.
@@atlaspowershrugged 💯 I mention that distinction at the end!
ATHLEAN-X ahahaha
Nice intro. lol
Whats the real name of natural hypertrophy
Mike Oxlong
The intro
Lol