ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- William McLellin was an early leader in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and also became an early apostate and critic of Church leadership. One might expect him to have also been a severe critic of the Book of Mormon, but the documents he left behind reveal quite a different story.
FOOTNOTES (Sorry that links aren't clickable yet. We will unlock that TH-cam feature soon.)
- The full letter (transcript) from McLellin to Cobb can be found here, in “William E. McLellan’s Testimony of the Book of Mormon,” by Larry C. Porter (BYU Studies): tinyurl.com/4kv...
- “‘The Testimony of Men’ William E. McLellin and the Book of Mormon Witnesses,” by Mitchell K. Schaefer (BYU Studies): tinyurl.com/y8u...
- Biography of William McLellin via Joseph Smith Papers: tinyurl.com/5f...
- “The Ensign of Liberty, of the Church of Christ,” Jan. 1848 (containing an account of McLellin’s history in the Church): tinyurl.com/4w...
- “Book of Mormon Evidence: William E. McLellin,” via Evidence Central: tinyurl.com/bdr...
- “Why Did William E. McLellin Call the Book of Mormon the ‘Apple of My Eye’?” via Book of Mormon Central: tinyurl.com/3uc...
Suggested Reading:
- “The Journals of William E. McLellin 1831-1836,” edited by Jan Shipps and John W. Welch.
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I'm not LDS but am a giant history nerd, especially American pioneer history, so of course a lot of LDS history is very interesting to me. Looking forward to more LDS church history videos!
It’s a breath of fresh air reading this after all the anti things
I love William McClellin's testimony of the Book of Mormon. His response to James Cobb is one of my all-time favorite stories, and he preserves some of the best testimonies from the three and eight witnesses.
“you might just as well fight against the Rocky Mountains” - powerful! Thanks for a great video! ❤
Thanks for continuing the series here! I’m excited for all that is to come!
So he believed church leadership was straying from the teachings of the Book of Mormon, and yet you hail that as a win for the Mormon church? Do we know which teachings McLellan was criticizing?
I don't know any of this at all.
Glad this is a new channel. I was sad the way SU was going when they had that women’s feminist episode.
Love your videos! But I wish you'd lose the voices and just let the narrator read the quotes. As for McLellan, sounds like he just had problems getting along with people. One question, though. When McLellan died, or since then, did the church leave him excommunicated, or was his temple work subsequently done? I know the church tends to be very compassionate, and in this case I'm pretty sure the church probably did do his work.
I have enjoyed the stylometry things you guys have done for the Book of Mormon. Maybe you could do a similar one for Doctrine and Covenants, because stylometry is basically a doctrinal theme taught in section 67. The Lord basically challenged the more skeptical apostles to fabricate revelations to see if they could mimic Joseph’s prophetic voice of being Jesus’ mouthpiece. William McLellin allegedly accepted the challenge to contrive scripture and failed despite being a school teacher.
Excited for the new channel, but this title is WAY to click-baity. I would prefer if the titles were more concrete.
Thanks for the great video.
I'm really excited for your new channel. I'm a big fan. Keep up the good work.
Supporter from Philippines❤
Thank you so much for your videos, these efforts to share the gospel online are a God sent!
Too bad these early saints didn’t have access to the internet.
Hello algorithm! 👋
"The people who left the church, but never denounced the Book of Mormon, always fascinated me." In that case you would find me zero fascinating.
Sweet
Now we just need a cool intro video like we had for Faiths and Beliefs
I love the Book of Mormon, but found steadier ground and a stronger spirit in The Church of Jesus Christ based in Monongahela than in the LDS Church. I'm still grateful for the foundation i received growing up, and I still encourage friends struggling in the LDS Church to doubt their doubts first
I grew up very close to the Monogahela church. It's a very cool piece of history, and we love our Restorationist brothers.
Not a cult!
good job
Great video. William McLellin is such a wild character. It is very bizarre to me how he asked the sheriff in Richmond Missouri for permission to fight Joseph Smith while Joseph was in prison. The sheriff originally agreed as long as they took off Joseph’s handcuffs. Joseph Smith even agreed to fight him, but then McLellin chickened out because he wanted to have a club and the sheriff wouldn’t let him do that because it wouldn’t be a fair fight. A part of me would have liked to see that fight between the prophet and former apostle, but maybe it was for the best Joseph didn’t beat up excommunicated members
Wow I have never heard this story. Sound about right, though haha. I wouldn't want to fight Joseph Smith, either.
The people who left the church, but never denounced the Book of Mormon, always fascinated me. They couldn't stand church leadership or being a part of a struggling church, but even they, despite their bitterness, could never confidently say that the Book of Mormon was fake.
@@mattprater8828
Have you never read the whole passage...?
Sec 84
88 And whoso receiveth you, there I will be also, for I will go before your face. I will be on your right hand and on your left, and my Spirit shall be in your hearts, and mine angels round about you, to bear you up. 89 Whoso receiveth you receiveth me;....
If the church was under complete condemnation why would Jesus tell them "who receiveth you receiveth me"?
Our Father in Heaven had a plan for all of it. I think they are the most important witnesses.
Some saw polygamy, including affairs with teenagers and married women, to be abhorrent and evidence that the leadership had gone astray and left the teachings of the Book of Mormon. We weren't there, but don't all scriptures have examples of men called of God who then falter?
@@michaelcolby8927 King David retained his roles as leader and prophet of Israel after he had committed murder and adultery.
I just jumped over from your announcement of your new Keystone site. I'm excited that you are still sharing your insights and testimonies.
Thank you for being here!
This true historical story of James Cobb can be seen as a reflection of many people today who oppose the Church. It begins with dissatisfaction toward the Church leaders, followed by efforts to find errors in the Church’s scriptures, prophets, and doctrines, claiming them to be false. However, the experiences and records of William McLellin, with his reasoning and logic, stand as a witness to the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.
This is not a criticism of this video but a thought as a Latter Day Saint.-since the BofM is unique to our faith we tend to think how powerful it is when people leave the church but still retain a belief in the Book of Mormon . However, to many of these early apostates this is the equivalent of people who believe the Bible but change which church they go to. It makes sense that many of these converts received a divine witness of the BofM just like they feel about the Bible and they become upset over some new doctrine of the church or their leaders and therefore leave. Like many Christian’s they retain their religious beliefs and go elsewhere. Right now there are a growing number of people who have a strong witness of the Book of Mormon and Joseph smith but deny anything after. Give it enough time and we will see more Book of Mormon believing church’s that are not part of the official church. The only thing that will stop this is the timing of the 2nd coming.
You are correct, just look at the many branches that started from the beginning who believed the Book of Mormon but not Brigham Young.
I disagree. The main Brighamite LDS Church was only able to purchase the Kirtland Temple earlier this year because the RLDS Community of Christ is rapidly shrinking and have almost no tithe payers under age 50. There are several other splinter groups but they are maintaining members at best. I don't see any new Restoration churches being created or growing. Most people who leave the LDS church don't end up in any other church.
This video touched my heart. Much like General Conference you don’t use flash and spunk to declare the truth. You let the truth speak for itself. Thank you for this.
Something to remember is that after the death of Joseph Smith, the church split into multiple factions--most of which supported Brigham Young and the pilgrimage towards Salt Lake. All of these sects believed and still believe in the Book of Mormon. We see that William McLellin was very opposed to the LDS faith and still wanted to support the Book of Mormon by joining the multiple sects that stemmed from the original faith. However, it's very important to note that even a man who believed in the Book of Mormon and was a member of the Quorum of the 12, did not believe in the leaders, which should cast light on the authority of the church itself.
Most importantly, though, was his ex-communication and disfellowship from the church, which is something contradictory to the Bible. Only God can ex-communicate someone from His Kingdom. Yes, you can lose your office based on your actions, but man cannot blot out someone's name from the Book of Life. That is one of the many reasons I cannot view mormons as Christians.
God didn't stop his revelations and gave us only the Bible, he also gave us The Book Of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants,
The Book of Enoch (Fragments) and other scriptures that we don't have yet. If you refuse to receive more, it's really up to
individual, the Lord will not force if this is all your heart and mind willing to accept.
Great video! It's so surprising to see an apostle of the Lord come and go so many times. It made me laugh a little. It's not technically funny but I still couldn't help it. It's so different back then from today in a way. We can't imagine our apostles apostatizing like half the quorum did back then.
The funny part is that during that time it was common to have these experiences. Its not only Mormons
Following after your announcement from Saints Unscripted. Looking forward to more videos!!!
Hey David
Well of course RYAN is here before the launch...
@@keystonelds I am everywhere. 😂
@@keystoneldsfor a smart guy you really r indoctrinated to believe this made up religion by someone who admired Muhammad's creation.
Step son…..🤣….I’m sure there was a lot of them
I did many quests to learn about this new channel's objective, and I'm glad to know that it still is in agreement with the gospel. Congratulations and more success!
Doing our best out here!
@@keystonelds the fruits of your labor are sweet ❣️
How would he have answered the anachronisms in the Book of Mormon?
If you believe in the omniscience of God, so called anachronisms in His revelations are not at all troubling.
Chelonia!!!
Your 1000th subscriber here 😊 glad to see this channel instantly monotizable
Very interesting video! The theme is simple: The BOM can be a true ancient record AND the church leveraging its teachings can be like all other human institutions (with their lips they do honor me, but their hearts are far from me).
Three examples of this video: McLellin, Page, David Whitmer. The BOM is the "keystone of religion" that sadly got minimalized to be the "keystone of JS's religion" embedded in the brand of this channel. Thanks in part to the ambitions and editorial contributions of OC and SR and others. With all such editorial licenses, the TRUE ancient record is still embedded within. And where did JS get such innovative content. Ay! There is the rub.
Personally, I would like vey much to see the unadulterated first text. Which I am certain JS protected very carefully. When he buried the "Manuscript" at the Nauvoo house and talked about it like a Bane, I honestly believe that was his reference to the "institution building" and the philosophies of men that followed. Emma likely hid these important papers under her dress crossing the frozen Mississippi. And likely, the main sinod (Brigham) house them under lock and key. The key data point was the interview with David Whitmer by the Brigham sinod regarding the purchase of the "printer's manuscript" where David was defending it was the "original" - they considered the 90-year old senile, but he was revealing the secret "blood oath agreement" to never reveal the truth of the first text. Cosmic humor to apply the Mahan oath's to something so sacred.
So much Forensic evidence, re BoM, at this point a testimony is technically redundant; however, vastly more powerful.
We have less than perfect leaders of the church today. My testimonies are of the Restoration, not the, less than truthful, leaders.
very cool
Even angels can be Satan, 2 COR 1:14 The devil makes himself look like an angel of light, but I am not surprised, even Satan disguises himself as an angel. One may want to be careful when dealing with angels.
Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father visited Joseph smith themselves
Huh. I thought I was gonna learn something. Sad =/
This was a superb video and I'm now more well informed! Thank you!
Sempre excelente vídeos! / always excellent videos!
It seems like he found the truth in the end.
He had problem with the leadership. So...the book was never denounced, but the leadership was? So Mormon churches/organizations/leaders is what he had problems with?
Yeah. That sounds WAY better.
He also said he never heard of any priesthood restoration, Peter James or John.
Nice
Really like the video without the comic asides.
Awesome video
Thank you so much Sir for your new channel and its excellent presentations defending the truth claims of the Savior’s gospel. Looking forward to your other videos and content.
Very interesting video! Congrats and best wishes on your new channel! I look forward to what’s in store.
I have to disagree on one thing. He didn't become disillusioned. When he left the church he became "illusioned." His illusion was that he stopped believing the truth.
No exmos here yet, this place is pure.
Lol 😂
For now 😢
@@lonyaofnevada I took a look at the comments now, they arrived, saying everything I imagined they would say 😢
Subscribed. Excited for this new channel.
The Church doesn't X-Communicate anymore. They simply remove the name from records.
If his testimony of the BoM is well received, what are we to make of his concerns with Church leadership?
Nothing
That people are people?
You are the reason I left the church. You've pointed out hundreds of problems with the churchs history without any real answers.
Sorry to hear that, Mike. You've come to different conclusions regarding these questions than I have, but I wish you the best and hope you are able to find another church family where you feel more comfortable.
Mike don’t be ridiculous.
JK I'm still a faithful follower of the church. Everything is true.
@@ItsMeMikeD1988 The church is a total lie.
How can a book be declared to be pure and sacred, which has been changed about 3,800 times since its original version. The early versions of the Book of Mormon contained no mention of the Mayas or Jesus preaching in Mesoamerica. It only described Jesus preaching in the Great Lakes region of North America., Smith only added what was initially a brief mention of the Mayas after Frederick Catherwood published a book about his exploration of the Yucatan Peninsula. The full version of the Nephite Thing took about 50 years of changes to the Book of Mormon.
Joseph Smith mentioned the Mayans in the Book of Mormon????
😂
@@gbengoosewuru4139The culture of the mayans is the basis for the Nephites.
@@goldstinger325 provide a quote or reference an official statement from the LDS church and then I'll believe you.
I'll Wait.
I've only had the newer copies of the Book of Mormon, and have heard speculation about the events taking place in South America. The more I've pondered over it, though, I've come to the belief that the events do happen in the Great Lakes area. That'd be quite the trek for Mormon and Moroni otherwise, all while under constant fear of the Lamanites.
??