Hey Jake. Glad you enjoyed it mate. Sometimes I use only 2 saw blades if the horn strips are thinner, but it works a treat and is much easier than using a wood saw with big teeth as they are too agressive and snag on the wood all the time, making a rough cut. Hacksaw blades are much finer and smoother.
Yes I will. On Saturday I ordered a piece of yew from Italy for exactly that purpose. I have never made a self yew bow before so I will be showing you how I get on! I have no idea whether I shall succeed or not so I am interested to get started and see how I do. :)
I bought this batch from Richard Head Longbows but they are also sold by Fairbow, Barebow Archery and DIY Archery. All are based in England however. For Ireland take a look at Flybow. They sell large pieces of horn plate in their arrow building supplies section. They are quite thick though (3 -4mm).
Hi, Nick. I still contend the horn used on medieval arrows was mostly from local oxen and not water buffalo. I wrapped my shafts tightly with heavy string when I glued in the horn. A lot of string. I think it worked better then a spring clamp.
Perfectly made video, easy to follow and learn from. I am planning on making my first horn inserted nocks soon and this has helped me a lot. Thankyou :-)
Thank you my friend. I hope to bring out several new videos in the next few months as I need to make myself some more kit including a medieval arrow bag and hopefully a new yew bow!
Cheers Steve. I've finished most of the filming for the new vid. Just a few more shots to finalise when I get time in the evenings this week after work, then I begin the epic task of editing it all together so it makes sense! Hopefully it shall be live within 2 weeks.
Hi. Yes I completely agree. Buffalo horn is simply the modern alernative. Medieval fletchers would of course have used domestic cow horn. Glad to hear the string worked.
Aha, thanks Nick, makes my job easier mate! In the past I have just carefully lind up the tip with the band saw and made many guess and check cuts, I have a steady hand so it works, but takes alot of effort and uses unnecessary power. Loook forward to try this out!
3 hacksaw blades is clever! I was using a tile saw blade for the hacksaw that was the right thickness but it was way harder to keep it all straight and avoid deviations as it was basically a round file. Thanks!
Well I am really impressed with the quality, the Camera I mainly use my is a Aiptek HD and the quality is crap compared to your camera, your camera quality seem very clear and crisp and shows the small details (like the holes in the wall) pretty sharp too but I guess lighting helps too lol. thanks for your comment
We can't be 100% certain as no medieval arrows survive, but the Tudor arrows from the Mary Rose all had horn slots (thought the horn itself had long since decayed) and those were munition grade arrows so my opinion would be yes. No doubt they had apprentices and a long-practised routine for shaping, cutting and glueing these inserts in record time.
I tried using impact adhesive to glue in horn strips but it didn't dry very well and stayed fairly soft. Instead, epoxy with a little less hardener and a bit more resin works extremely well to make sure it's more flexible.
Another great vdeo Nick! Thanks for that, the three band saw blades is a neat idea, will be a much easier job than my method! Look forward to the future steps! Hope you are well mate, -Jake
As long as you aren't using the arrows for record-status flight shoots with organisations such as the EWBS then you can make the horn inserts whatever size you like, or choose not to have them at all.
I understand why you think that but if you cut the slot for the horn to the correct thickness then the shaft won't split when inserting the horn. You then cut the string nock so the string goes at 90 degrees to both the horn and the grain, which is stronger than it going at 90 degrees to the horn but in line with the grain as the string touches both horn AND wood.
Thanks for video nick! Can you do a video on making the binding of the arrow? I find that to be quite difficult. Especially because everytime after a couple of shoots the thread starts to loosen and comes off…. A video about that would be terrific
Thank you for the request Rupert. Next time I need some new arrows I will try to remember to film the binding process for you. If the binding is always coming loose I would first check to make sure your arrows are not too stiff for your bow, as they should not rub so hard against the bow to wear through the thread, no matter how you bind them. You can also paint varnish over the thread to make it more durable.
Hello, nice video! Which saw do you use? I like the idea of just taping three sawblades together but I think that doesn`t work with every saw at hand...
Hi great video and very clear. But looking at the time needed for each horn insert and considering fletchers were required to produce hundreds of shafts a week. Do you think the munition grade arrows have had these?
Does the horn have to be two inches or can it be 1 and a half inches because on a website they sell them 3 inches long and 1 inch wide I was wondering because you could make 4 pieces of each 1
I wish I were a professional bowyer but I don't make bows for sale yet. You could try eBay for second hand bows or else look at the Primitive Archer forum.
Hi, thanks for your videos, they are just great! I was wondering if it's possible to make a horn insert also to thinner shafts, such as 11/32 or 5/16? The insert is quite thick after all, so my fear would be that for example 5/16 shaft would just split upon sawing...
what poundage bow do you shoot thows logs out of?? lol which do you think is better??? and which was found (historically) I'm curious as why you put you horn in with the grain. If the majority of the force is going to be taken by the horn then the horn would be pushed into the soft part of the wood and it would lead to splitting (but the string its self is across the grain so the string would be supported by the grain). In contrast with having the horn across the grain, the grain would support the horn a lot better. But the string its self would be with the grain so it would have to be just supported by the horn. Thinking about it i would have thought the second way would be stronger. But I'm no expert!
Hello Joe. I shoot these arrows from bows ranging from 100 - 130lbs. I understand your point regarding the orientation of the horn to the grain. Unfortunately I have no scientific answer for you. This is the way I was taught and I believe the Mary Rose arrows had a similar orientation. I have never had a horn insert push deeper into the wood I must say.
Hi Joe, The reason that the horn is oriented in this fashion is to reduce the likelihood of splitting the arrow on the loose. As the arrow is fired it must bend around the bow to retain a straight trajectory to target, a phenomenon known as "the archers paradox". If the horn was oriented across the grain as you suggested, when the arrow flexed around the bow there is a greater chance of the shaft snapping at a grain run-out. With the horn oriented parallel with the grain as Nick does in the video the grain lines are perpendicular to the axis of bending creating less chance of splitting. As for strength, it is the shear strength of the larger glue bond on the flat surface of horn that provides strength to the nock, rather than the bearing strength at the end of the horn pushing against the timber shaft. Hope that helps.
have you ever shot a horn bow! id love to meet you! i am doing a bone insert in an arrow shaft right now. couldn't a generous amount of sinew stop the arrow from splitting in the nock too?
Good morning. I've shot a composite bow of wood, horn and leather, yes. I seem to remember it was great fun and very fast! I hope your new arrow with the bone insert flies fast and true. Best wishes, Nick.
bigbowbrum thats awesome ! ive really enjoyed your channel over the years. i think you were one of the first few bow channels i subscribed to on youtube.keep the videos coming man! thankk you for sharing your diy tricks as well!
Thanks for making this, I watched it a while back and helped with my research for a story (one of the characters makes arrows with the horn nock etc. so it's good to know how it works). I have a question about your arrows themselves though. Do you make them out of ash, for example? I'm trying to find a good wood [and diameter] to shoot with that won't snap so easily. I've used some 11/32" wood dowels and they fly well but I'd like to hear your thoughts on that with sharp arrows
Hi Derek. Great to hear that my video helped you with your research. For light target arrows I use cedar. For 'war' arrows I use poplar, as that seems to have been common. If I need the strongest arrows for use in public demos against replica armour I use ash or even better birch, as both are very dense and strong. Dowel can be a good cheap substitute that works well, but the quality can't always be assured. The diameter used will suit the bow's power. Less than 45lbs I would generally use 5/16". Up to 70lbs 11/32" or 23/64". From there to 110lbs 3/8" and then for the heaviest bows a 1/2" at the head tapered to 3/8" at the nock.
I'm gonna try to make my own arrows. Do you think it would be worth it to make a full nock out of a piece of antler or ivory instead of a self nock with the bone insert?
Yes, that would definitely be worthwhile. Solid nocks like you describe are often used and will be stronger than having an insert. I wish you well with it.
hi nick, i saw you at the last medieval festival at hurstmonceux. i was wondering if you have any idea of how norman and saxon bows would have looked. would they have looked like the mary rose bows or not? it is not very clear what they look like in the bayeux tapestry
No mate, I'm afraid I don't have any experience of those early bows. My guess would be that they were shorter and thinner in depth but other than that I have no idea.
The arrows were all different but the average length was 32.5 inches from the shoulder of the head to the base of the nock. The diameter at the head was 1/2 inch and 3/8 inch at the nock.
Try Highland Horn (Google) they supply a few of the places that sell the horn plates you are looking for. He's just down the road from me . Phone him and ask very friendly chap..
Good to know you English are keeping alive the tradition of medieval archery!
Hey Jake. Glad you enjoyed it mate. Sometimes I use only 2 saw blades if the horn strips are thinner, but it works a treat and is much easier than using a wood saw with big teeth as they are too agressive and snag on the wood all the time, making a rough cut. Hacksaw blades are much finer and smoother.
Yes I will. On Saturday I ordered a piece of yew from Italy for exactly that purpose. I have never made a self yew bow before so I will be showing you how I get on! I have no idea whether I shall succeed or not so I am interested to get started and see how I do. :)
I bought this batch from Richard Head Longbows but they are also sold by Fairbow, Barebow Archery and DIY Archery. All are based in England however. For Ireland take a look at Flybow. They sell large pieces of horn plate in their arrow building supplies section. They are quite thick though (3 -4mm).
Hi, Nick. I still contend the horn used on medieval arrows was mostly from local oxen and not water buffalo. I wrapped my shafts tightly with heavy string when I glued in the horn. A lot of string. I think it worked better then a spring clamp.
Perfectly made video, easy to follow and learn from. I am planning on making my first horn inserted nocks soon and this has helped me a lot. Thankyou :-)
Thank you my friend. I hope to bring out several new videos in the next few months as I need to make myself some more kit including a medieval arrow bag and hopefully a new yew bow!
Cheers Steve. I've finished most of the filming for the new vid. Just a few more shots to finalise when I get time in the evenings this week after work, then I begin the epic task of editing it all together so it makes sense! Hopefully it shall be live within 2 weeks.
Hi. Yes I completely agree. Buffalo horn is simply the modern alernative. Medieval fletchers would of course have used domestic cow horn. Glad to hear the string worked.
Aha, thanks Nick, makes my job easier mate! In the past I have just carefully lind up the tip with the band saw and made many guess and check cuts, I have a steady hand so it works, but takes alot of effort and uses unnecessary power. Loook forward to try this out!
3 hacksaw blades is clever!
I was using a tile saw blade for the hacksaw that was the right thickness but it was way harder to keep it all straight and avoid deviations as it was basically a round file.
Thanks!
Thanks Aron. I too have used a tile cutter blade and do quite like that method.
Yes mate. It's only a standard digital stills camera, not a camcorder, but the video facility is in HD and wide screen which makes all the difference.
Well I am really impressed with the quality, the Camera I mainly use my is a Aiptek HD and the quality is crap compared to your camera, your camera quality seem very clear and crisp and shows the small details (like the holes in the wall) pretty sharp too but I guess lighting helps too lol. thanks for your comment
We can't be 100% certain as no medieval arrows survive, but the Tudor arrows from the Mary Rose all had horn slots (thought the horn itself had long since decayed) and those were munition grade arrows so my opinion would be yes. No doubt they had apprentices and a long-practised routine for shaping, cutting and glueing these inserts in record time.
I liked your t-short so I went to Fairbow to buy one. I got the Live by the sword, die by the arrow one.
Great video BBB!
Thanks for uploading, I was always wondering what the ways were on this...
I tried using impact adhesive to glue in horn strips but it didn't dry very well and stayed fairly soft. Instead, epoxy with a little less hardener and a bit more resin works extremely well to make sure it's more flexible.
Another great vdeo Nick! Thanks for that, the three band saw blades is a neat idea, will be a much easier job than my method! Look forward to the future steps! Hope you are well mate,
-Jake
As long as you aren't using the arrows for record-status flight shoots with organisations such as the EWBS then you can make the horn inserts whatever size you like, or choose not to have them at all.
Hey Nick, indeed nice shirt! I just came home from Magén! :) nice movie too, I was just thinking about not having seen any new movies! Cheers
I understand why you think that but if you cut the slot for the horn to the correct thickness then the shaft won't split when inserting the horn. You then cut the string nock so the string goes at 90 degrees to both the horn and the grain, which is stronger than it going at 90 degrees to the horn but in line with the grain as the string touches both horn AND wood.
Thanks for video nick! Can you do a video on making the binding of the arrow? I find that to be quite difficult. Especially because everytime after a couple of shoots the thread starts to loosen and comes off…. A video about that would be terrific
Thank you for the request Rupert. Next time I need some new arrows I will try to remember to film the binding process for you. If the binding is always coming loose I would first check to make sure your arrows are not too stiff for your bow, as they should not rub so hard against the bow to wear through the thread, no matter how you bind them. You can also paint varnish over the thread to make it more durable.
Cheers Vincent. I promised Magen I would wear his shirt in one of my videos one day! More videos coming soon.
Agreed, in fact I believe Fairbow now sell a jig so I may look into this later.
Thank you! Yes, shooting heavy bows does do wonders for my shoulder development! :)
I have never used hard wood as an insert but I would imagine it does help in exactly the same way.
I'm going to be making some soon. Also, do you know where I could get a second-hand warbow or could you possibly make me one?
Hello, nice video! Which saw do you use? I like the idea of just taping three sawblades together but I think that doesn`t work with every saw at hand...
Hello Hendrik. A saw designed to cut ceramic wall and floor tiles also works well.
Hi great video and very clear. But looking at the time needed for each horn insert and considering fletchers were required to produce hundreds of shafts a week. Do you think the munition grade arrows have had these?
i like to use a copper strip for an insert. looks nice too
Very creative in inventive, nice clear video are you using a new camera? this camera is pretty sharp!!!
I will send you a list of all the suppliers I either use or am aware of.
Profesionální práce díky.
Does the horn have to be two inches or can it be 1 and a half inches because on a website they sell them 3 inches long and 1 inch wide I was wondering because you could make 4 pieces of each 1
why with the grain. i would think the stronger way of reinforcement is 90 degrees against the grain being the smaller chance of spliting the shaft
three hacksaw blades... brilliant.
I saw a video about a hard wood insert. Dose that do the same?
I wish I were a professional bowyer but I don't make bows for sale yet. You could try eBay for second hand bows or else look at the Primitive Archer forum.
Where do u get the horn i live in the us and i was about to buy 12 when i found out it was $20 for shiping and 7 just fot the stack
Hi, thanks for your videos, they are just great! I was wondering if it's possible to make a horn insert also to thinner shafts, such as 11/32 or 5/16? The insert is quite thick after all, so my fear would be that for example 5/16 shaft would just split upon sawing...
Hello Johanna. It may be possible if you can sand the horn down to a very thin strip and use a fine saw blade, but I've never tried it myself.
bigbowbrum Thanks for your reply, maybe I'll try it at some point :)
Nice video! btw you look huge man, gotta be strong shooting heavy bows.
what poundage bow do you shoot thows logs out of?? lol
which do you think is better??? and which was found (historically)
I'm curious as why you put you horn in with the grain. If the majority of the force is going to be taken by the horn then the horn would be pushed into the soft part of the wood and it would lead to splitting (but the string its self is across the grain so the string would be supported by the grain). In contrast with having the horn across the grain, the grain would support the horn a lot better. But the string its self would be with the grain so it would have to be just supported by the horn.
Thinking about it i would have thought the second way would be stronger. But I'm no expert!
Hello Joe. I shoot these arrows from bows ranging from 100 - 130lbs. I understand your point regarding the orientation of the horn to the grain. Unfortunately I have no scientific answer for you. This is the way I was taught and I believe the Mary Rose arrows had a similar orientation. I have never had a horn insert push deeper into the wood I must say.
Hi Joe,
The reason that the horn is oriented in this fashion is to reduce the likelihood of splitting the arrow on the loose. As the arrow is fired it must bend around the bow to retain a straight trajectory to target, a phenomenon known as "the archers paradox". If the horn was oriented across the grain as you suggested, when the arrow flexed around the bow there is a greater chance of the shaft snapping at a grain run-out. With the horn oriented parallel with the grain as Nick does in the video the grain lines are perpendicular to the axis of bending creating less chance of splitting.
As for strength, it is the shear strength of the larger glue bond on the flat surface of horn that provides strength to the nock, rather than the bearing strength at the end of the horn pushing against the timber shaft.
Hope that helps.
have you ever shot a horn bow! id love to meet you! i am doing a bone insert in an arrow shaft right now. couldn't a generous amount of sinew stop the arrow from splitting in the nock too?
Good morning. I've shot a composite bow of wood, horn and leather, yes. I seem to remember it was great fun and very fast! I hope your new arrow with the bone insert flies fast and true. Best wishes, Nick.
bigbowbrum thats awesome ! ive really enjoyed your channel over the years. i think you were one of the first few bow channels i subscribed to on youtube.keep the videos coming man! thankk you for sharing your diy tricks as well!
By the way good to see you again!
Thanks for making this, I watched it a while back and helped with my research for a story (one of the characters makes arrows with the horn nock etc. so it's good to know how it works). I have a question about your arrows themselves though. Do you make them out of ash, for example? I'm trying to find a good wood [and diameter] to shoot with that won't snap so easily. I've used some 11/32" wood dowels and they fly well but I'd like to hear your thoughts on that with sharp arrows
Hi Derek. Great to hear that my video helped you with your research. For light target arrows I use cedar. For 'war' arrows I use poplar, as that seems to have been common. If I need the strongest arrows for use in public demos against replica armour I use ash or even better birch, as both are very dense and strong. Dowel can be a good cheap substitute that works well, but the quality can't always be assured. The diameter used will suit the bow's power. Less than 45lbs I would generally use 5/16". Up to 70lbs 11/32" or 23/64". From there to 110lbs 3/8" and then for the heaviest bows a 1/2" at the head tapered to 3/8" at the nock.
@@bigbowbrum Awesome, thanks for the specifics, man! :D
very good brother
Dobra robota ! Great job ! :)
Is impact a suitable glue for arrowheads as well as the horn nocks?
Jack Tanner I haven't tried it Jack but I don't see why not.
I'm gonna try to make my own arrows. Do you think it would be worth it to make a full nock out of a piece of antler or ivory instead of a self nock with the bone insert?
Yes, that would definitely be worthwhile. Solid nocks like you describe are often used and will be stronger than having an insert. I wish you well with it.
hi nick, i saw you at the last medieval festival at hurstmonceux. i was wondering if you have any idea of how norman and saxon bows would have looked. would they have looked like the mary rose bows or not? it is not very clear what they look like in the bayeux tapestry
No mate, I'm afraid I don't have any experience of those early bows. My guess would be that they were shorter and thinner in depth but other than that I have no idea.
ok thanks
really like it :)
have to try that
Do you have the exact dimensions of arrows found in mery rose?
The arrows were all different but the average length was 32.5 inches from the shoulder of the head to the base of the nock. The diameter at the head was 1/2 inch and 3/8 inch at the nock.
bigbowbrum thanks
This is a good video but I can't help thinking that if you made yourself a jig then the job would be as neat, faster and more easily replicable.
Thank you, you are very kind! :)
nice work¡¡¡¡
I live in the US, where can I get horn inserts?
pet stores sale horns..good place to get them.
Try Highland Horn (Google) they supply a few of the places that sell the horn plates you are looking for.
He's just down the road from me .
Phone him and ask very friendly chap..
2 inces is 5 meters no or jes
Hi Benjamin, 2 inches is 5 cm.
as soon as we do not have to use our own horns, I am fine with any other type of horn ;)
Thank you
It's all about context
Ha, ha. It doesn't always look that good mate! :)
You forgot to say how stinking the horn is!!! Beware all its horrible. Great video
Fairbow!!
nice shirt, but don't you have to chop off the head?
None at all. Some guys I know use lino.
Ha, ha. Yes it does smell pretty bad!
Is there any reason you can't be a cheapskate, and use, say, plastic or something instead?