"Because when did an aircraft carrier catch fire in real life?" I started laughing before you even started throwing up the shots of the Franklin/ Oriskany/ Enterprise/ Forrestal/ etc. All of those got beat into our heads from boot camp onward as examples.
Richard M, how was that McCain’s fault? A Phantom shot a Skyhawk that may have been McCain’s plane. Then the old ordnance caught fire. Was McCain supposed to get out of the cockpit and piss out the fires before the unstable bombs went off?
Dang! I finally get featured in a Jingles video after 6 years and it's one of my most embarrassing performances of the week! NOooooooo! I was in the Georgia on the opposing team :(
Fire is how you kill BB's in anything not another BB. It's just how the game is. No torpedoes aren't an option. If you are hit by ship launched torps it's not that the ship torping you is good it's that your brain is underpowered.
Above tier VIII I basically moved away from BBs (this was already when I had Montana, Yamato, Kurfurst) once the british BBs and the ships like Worcestor came out. After that why play battleships? You can't move in or else you're burned down under 2 minutes, all the while plagued with terrible RNG on CAs just sitting there, or with competent players that do well enough to keep hidden when you aim at them.
Wargaming logic.... Players: This destroyer is a bit OP in regards to "A" and "B". Wargaming: Thanks for the feed back, we will nerf "C" and "D" to fix that.
Bro, it was a hell of a joke! So yes, I cried tears too and laughed! But those tears were also genuine because AA is also a fuckin' joke and a half with a side order of fries and its 3 fries short of a happy meal.
@@lukum55 It is, as the carrier, if determined, will not only get their strike home, but, unless terribly unlucky or stupid with plane management, also have a fresh squadron of some description at the ready immediately after having the last of their planes swatted by the def AA. These planes can then zoom in in the knowledge that the consumable is on cooldown. The CV rework is an utter failure, with WG just not willing to admit their mistake.
Ned Ryerson Amen! I actually liked the RTS style CV play. I made it up to USS Essex before the rework then saw the "improvement" and sold every single cv I had. Its still a clusterf*ck in my opinion
I think the 'what is going on' with Wargaming is they are trying to cater to the Russian player base who apparently have a completely different way of playing the game from the EU and possibly NA servers and for the past couple years have been screaming at Wargaming on how there is an anti-soviet bias in the game becuse for their meta, the russian ships really aren't that great. And honestly the Russians spend more money on this game than I think we do so.....
Nope, WG just took easy route: making models and skins and pushing them to “surprise mechanics" or similar stuff; not making fun, interesting and balance game.
to be fair, that carrier on their team should of been capb of running down the klebar, but i think from what i seen in the video he went for BBs majority of the time
I don't think Wargaming know what Wargaming 2019 is doing, I'm totaly at a loss but just playing the game and being entertained by their antics and cunning plans, Some interesting observations Amiral Arriere Gingeles
In the Kii's defence - sure, he knew he was spotted by a destroyer. But he also knew that destroyer was a Kleber, which 'can't' stealth-torp anymore, so why should he worry about torpedoes~?
Pfft, I know right? That’s far from conclusive. They all could have been flukes. I mean it’s not like they are filled with gasoline, bombs, rockets, and aircraft (often carrying the prior mentioned items in thin aluminum skin) I can’t see any possible reason for such a thing to happen. It’s like saying that. An 800 ft ocean liner could hit an iceberg and sink. Absolutely preposterous.
Hell, he could have just posted photos of the Oriskany, Forrestal, Enterprise, and Admiral Kuznetsov, And those are just the ones that had major fires during "peacetime" (not actually being shot at by the enemy) since WWII. Go home War Gaming, you've had too much vodka again.`
@@seafodder6129 I mean, all you need is a very small spill and the deck temp to climb above 114° f. Hapens to be the vapor point of high octane fuel and the point where a small spark can ignite said vapor.
3:50 and now with the AA rework even the "AA cruiser" are no match for most of the base AA of BBs, the only difference being that BBs tend to lose a lot of AA capability at the end of the match because HE spamming and AA cruiser tend to implode instanly by "broadside"/"overmatch from the front" padelling
To be fair though there is that lovely overpen mechanic that let's so many cruiser players sail around broadside without a care in the world and the BB's just can't punish it until RNGesus says "OK, you can kill it now it's set 3 fires on you, blown off most of your AA and forced you to burn through 2 heals to keep what little HP you have left" 😂 Not disagreeing with you btw. Just pointing out that frustrating crap is a 2 way street in WoWs 😉
@@MoA-Reload... You descrived me playing Yamato. When you overpen proadsiding cruiser 20 on one game, you start questoning IS there any point of playing whole game anymore.
I actually stopped shooting broadside cruisers in Yammy, I wait for them to attempt to angle against me. This generally gives you enough "armor" that you won't overpen.
Jingles, thank you so much for pointing out in a single video so many problems created by WG themselves recently.... When i see that replay (and shout out to that Kleber captain, amazing game!), I really wonder why I still play the game.... But I know exactly why I don't bother anymore and dont try to grind to high tiers! Like in wot, best tiers are between 4 and 7 now. Thanks to all WG changes!!
Jingles I'm gonna try to be informative. I realize this will spark the ire of many but CV's are NOT "functionally immune to fire" they have very different fire mechanics. First off they have a .8 fire resist chance at base, for all tiers. At tier4 this is pretty normal but by tierX most ships have .5 resist. Resist is like golf, the lower the better. In effect it means a TierX CV is about 1/3 more likely to catch fire than any other TierX ship in the entire game without any other additional skills at play. CV's take more fire damage per second. All other ships in the game take .3% fire damage per second. CV's take 1% damage per second, in exchange they have dramatically reduced fire durations of 5 seconds compared to BB's at 60sec, CL/DD at 30sec. This means CV's take 5% total damage from a fire, where as a CL or DD would take 9% (assuming it burns for full duration). Also of note CV's have no repairs and 100% of fire damage can be repaired by other ships. This also means any sort of anti-fire skills like the India Yankee flag or similar (that reduce fire duration) will generally have minimal impact for a CV but will have a hugely magnified impact for every other ship type because they are based on modifying fire durations. So while yes CV's have very short fire durations, they also take triple fire damage during those short fires AND their means to mitigate fire damage are basically nothing. They are also more likely to catch on fire than nearly any other ship tier starting at Tier6 and it only gets worse as they go higher. The big reason for all this difference in fire for CV's is that CV's still retain the "can't launch planes while on fire" thing from the RTS era. So the realities of a normal duration perma fire would basically just shut down the CV for a minute or until the automated damage control could save them. In most cases it would mean once a CV is getting hit by HE they are just functionally shut out of the game and might aswell just go afk. So they reduced fire duration, increased fire damage to compensate, and kept fire damage slightly lower than other ships because they don't have repair parties, can't manually damage control fires, and with the changes to fire duration cannot build against fire damage like other ships could (and arguably its weak on other ships as is). The only problem with "CV durability" is TierX CV's armored decks, they are entirely too thick from a gameplay perspective. Is thicker deck armor than any other ship, it will shatter basically most HE in the game, will not be overmatched by basically anything since it will always be impacted by AP at serious angles too. This means in effect the TierX CV's are entirely too durable for what they are due to game mechanics. They are nearly immune to CV rockets except fires. They are nearly immune to HE DB's except fires. They are nearly immune to AP at range unless broadside. They are nearly immune to all HE shells outside of fires. You'll note that Hindy was basically shattering most if not all of their HE shots on the armored deck. Yet couldn't pen with its AP realistically. In effect that Midways he better armor setup than most BB's in the game. Almost purely because of the armored deck. Even if its not real world compliant they need to slash TierX armored decks thickness dramatically. Let it shatter DD HE and CV Rockets. Let it get some pens/damage from CA HE and HE DB's. Let BB HE straight up anal it.
To be fair the fire thing doesn't matter because their damage con lasts a minute. That's three times longer than any other ship in the game. And cv are rarely spotted for long enough to actually punish that minute long damage con. Then even once the damage con is up, the cv takes a quarter as much damage from a fire as a bb would. Sure they are more likely to catch fire, they have no heals, and the fires hurt a lot faster. But they are still the most fire resistant class as a whole.
Ive been in the same situation as the Hindenburg but in my Henri IV and I couldnt do shit with MBR and every thing else, I had to actually speed boost around him to get his broadside and blapp that with AP. CVs are so retard proof its hilarious.
I say keep the way the aircraft work, but set the ships themselves back to the "if they're burning, let them burn" era. The more CVs littering the ocean floor, the better.
I haven't played WoWS for over 2 or 3 years now but I am still watching Jingles. It always amazes me how one person can have such knowledge about this game. Seriously...
I guess you could say the Kléber was klébbed into the pits of nerfed hell, from which many are still trying to escape. okay I'll see myself out. thanks & good night!
There is some hidden utility in these kinds of destroyers, and that's in the tanking potential. These things are so quick and hard to hit, that you end up taking a lot of fire. Because every single shot that's fired at you is a shot that isn't aimed at your teammates, that drastically increases your chances of winning.
As a CV player (pls don't kill me now), I totally agree that they are pretty OP in the current meta. Their damage potential is huge, they can hit anything and hurt it badly, all the while having pretty good chances of survival (thx automatic repair party that reloads faster than light). I wonder how WG could balance them with the current gameplay because believe me, same tier and higher tier AA do hurt airplanes. So much so that if I want to have planes at the end of the battle AND help my team vs the most dangerous targets, I have to use slingshot, purposefully waste one charge of my squadron. Just if you wonder, second charge will conduct the attack while last gets shredded to pieces, no matter what. I don't have any tier X CV, I can't speak about them. But get a tier VI CV in a tier VIII fight... Boy, you'd better know bloody well what you're doing if you want to do anything... However, despite these drawbacks, it is clear that a top tier CV commanded by a semi competent player will utterly dominate the match. That has to change, because it ain't to much fun for the guys on the receiving end... The question is how to balance them ? Increase AA damage or reduce planes HP ? Then CVs'll get irrelevant as you'll lose all your planes reserves after 2 or 3 outings with each squadron type, even more than with the old system. Balance the damage they inflict ? Maybe, but when you look at it, a single bomb or torpedo doesn't deal that much damage (except AP bombs landing on your citadel). Take their accuracy into account and the maneuvers that the target can take, in fine, you wouldn't deal much damage (all that at the cost of a lot of planes). Do you have any ideas ? And don't you dare to tell me rEmoVe cV: they are a part of the game as much as any other ship, have historical significance and are also a balancing factor against certain ships !
The problem WG faced is that CV’s ended naval gun combat in real life. How do you balance that. In theory a CV should not even be on the map in the first place but if engaged by almost any surface combatant is basically a pretty immediate kill. The worst decision they ever made was including them in the first place. Having done so they cannot remove them and will now have to live with the fact they will never properly balance them either the CV will feel impotent or godlike as on one hand it can see almost anything and strike almost anywhere whereas the alternative is to extend plane reloads etc and make the gameplay for the CV player really dull.
One change that might help would be to increase the time between an attack (for example dropping torps) and the attack actually hitting. Torps would have longer safe area after being dropped and bombs would have a longer fall time. Idk if that would work for rockets but perhaps those could replaced with interceptors/fighters that could damage enemy planes rather than ships
Maybe don't touch the planes at all, bring back manual control of the ship from above(or in some other way to make players more focused on survivability and not 100% on offense) , and make its survivability non-existent in close combat and especially BB shells. Most players anyway just hug the corner and spam planes, just make them easier to kill in close quarters combat in the end of the game ffs. The one problem with the old system was the skill gap, a noob in CV would be almost useless, a unicum would be a war god. And because MM does not take into account player skill/exp/WR%/something similar and you have 1 or 2 CVs per match, that skill gap made ALL the difference , the bigger the skill gap was between opposing CV players, the more lopsided the match was. Now, they could have balanced the gap between skill floor and skill ceiling in the context of old gameplay BUT, they didn't saw that as a solution to all their problems. They wanted to address one other thing with a same rework, and that was a very small CV player base which they thought was a style of gameplay issue and i would argue it was more of a "I 5 match a week CV player have no incentive to play CV anymore, cause 1/3 of the time I end up against the super unicum in OP CV (read: saipan with T9 planes, top. kek.) who i have to watch for the next 10 minutes as he completely diminishes my influence on the game and wins it for his team by him self". I was a free to play CV player with almost 80% WR in randoms, and still couldn't do shit against unicums in saipans lol. So they made a rework going balls deep and "scouting" with their faces as Jingles says and made a glorious piece of turd that no one knows what to do now with. I would also argue that the old system in its core was excellent, definitely needed tweaking, but the fun was there for the sufficient number of players to get 1-2 CVs almost every game. But they just had to fuck things up completely... Sry if my english wasn't good.
Either back to hard cap limit on the number of planes in the hanger(except that would basically hobble CV's badly and result on deplaned CV's sailing to their death forgetting their ship is still worth points) or dramatically increase the turn around time for strikes or provide unlimited DFAA and invulnerable AA mounts. I'd really like to see them change DFAA to apply a "suppressed" effect to the CV player to make it much harder to strike through similar to the effect of being suppressed in Post Scriptum. Suggested it quite a few times on the forums, dev streams and community manager streams since CV rework was first in public test but not a hint of anything like that so meh, guess spreadsheet says otherwise 😂
@@grahambrown3519 You may have a point about the inclusion of CVs in the game but then again, as you say yourself, now that they are here, we have to find a way to balance them. And they may be ! Old CVs were indeed godlike in unicum hands. However, I have vivid memories of planes literally dropping down from the sky when you focused them. It may have been random but you had more a sense of accomplishment and involvement as you do know...
It´s more of a Tashkent than a Khabarovsk, because Khaba has to put up with a max range of 13.5km, Tashkent can reach 15.2km which is much closer to Klebers 16.3km. Additionally, Kleber has a stock range of 13.6km which is better than a full range build Khaba.
The CV immune to fire thing is a part of my main gripes with the CV revoke, they utterly removed the CV vs CV interaction, no real fighters, CV's repair party is godlike so no point in losing half your aircraft to land 1 strike, other then dropping fighters over friendly DD's there is no interaction between opposing CV's.
It's not impossible to hit these buggers, but sadly you have to deal with the nerfed AP. Swapping to HE is usually a losing proposition too, unless you're British.
i never understood why aircraft carriers couldn't be designed so they're highly resistant to enemy aircraft but rather vulnerable to surface ship fire. if your carrier player is dumb enough to get caught by surface ships then the carrier deserves to take damage, or it's the end of the game now and carrier survival really doesn't matter.
This reminds me of one of Jingles Kamikaze videos where he says. “ Knowing you’re about to be fucked and being able to do anything about it are two very different things.”
LoL, when Jingles said "Because when did an aircraft carrier catch fire in real life?" the first thing that sprung to mind were first and second Japanese carrier divisions xDD
Father used to say, " if you are a turd and you have money, then that what you are a polished turd", thank you Jingles for reminding me of the English humour my Father had, two thumbs up
Alex tsui as a Massachusetts player who loves his ship, seeing that filled me with a mix of rage and shame. Rage that a Neptune got so close without dying, and shame that the Massachusetts player allowed it to happen.
“You’re basically just polishing a turd”? Wow! I at least thought Jingles would say that about the Kreml! Not the Kléber! Ohhhhh boy. Someone get the Physics & Realism guy on the phone! And then after that, call 06Wallst!
One of the funniest ships in wows, it’s tricky but extremely tense and fun to play Kléber, I love that ship (such as Le Terrible, Tashkent, Mogador even if mogador lack a bit of firepower imo)... the only one I dislike is the Khaba. Bcoz it remains too slow compared to Kléber and players have not such hard time hitting Khaba these days. But Kléber is definitely a must have, it’s so cool to carry games in this thing. ❤️ GG btw, very well played 👌
No, No, No! Jingles is ex-Royal Navy. The entire purpose of the Royal Navy is to sink the French Navy on a regular basis - that has been our policy for the last 600 years, why change!
@@dakkenblah1450 I think that is what is called a bonus! But no the policy objective is always to sink the French navy, even when technically they are our allies
When Jingles said "WG nerfed the health of Kremlin's already terrible AA..." I hope tha was sarcasm as well - Kremlin has the BEST AA VALUES IN THE GAME! Longest long range aura, most DPM on that aura of ANY ship, most flak bursts, and COMPARABLE Mid and short range AA to Montana, making its AA INSANELY BETTER THAN EVEN MONTANA!
I am currently grinding FXP just as fast as I can manage to hopefully pick the soon(tm) to be introduced tier X IJN DD.. you know, the one with a base 37 knot speed, twin 5 tube torp launchers, option to take TRB instead of smoke, and much improved duel purpose 127's with a 4 second refire delay. (Ya know, kinds of a Super Yugumo!) but yea driving DD's these days is rough.. But I have learned.. drive BB's like cruisers, cruisers like DD's, and DD's like BB's and you'll be fine.. totally historically accurate!
Now it's the Kléberovsk. I think the main issue with stealth DD play and their weakness to Radar and Sonar is the lack of any Fog of War mechanic. Sonar can quite well identify a vessel (at least nowadays), but even the most modern systems sometimes have trouble determining the distance. Radar is quite bad at identifying what exactly is there, and early systems had trouble seeing stuff in front of islands. A step-by-step identification (enemy, type, class) like in RTW would help immensely on the realism and balance of visibility in this game.
I did double take to when I saw the Hindenburg health bar disappear. "Oh no the Hindenburg has been sunk. Just the CVs now." Nope just a replay glitch as Jingles said
On the topic of aircraft carriers in WOWS not burning, I remember you talking about British carriers needing heavily armored decks to survive German bombings in an earlier video. Do you know if that reduced the chances of a fire catching on those carriers with armored decks or did it not really make much of a difference?
At least the Kleber still has those fast torpedoes with fantastic angles & main battery reload to distinguish it from the Russians. Sort of. Khaba can't ambush worth a damn.
19:50 Whats the matter with that torpedo strike? I don't play carriers, why did it stray so much? I see this sometimes myself, evidently there is some mechanic involved.
Didn't give the planes time to settle into the attack run and/or turned during the run. Sometimes you do it deliberately for the same reason you switch your torpedo launchers from narrow to wide spread
yeah with the hinden and midway IN the old RTS carriers one of them would have died and my money would have been on the midway dieing because YOU COULDNT launch planes while your deck was on fire thank you WeeGee for fucking things up
Playing the french navy the manly way instead the stereotype french way, reminds me of Eddie Izzard's skit on the american view of the french because Gen. Lafayette.
But Jingles from a naval history stand point didn’t the introduction of aircraft and carriers spell the end of traditional big gun warships anyway? Much like the advance of firearms technology with rifled barrels and mini ball bullets ended the long standing (no pun intended )Napoleon style of army’s lining up to take shots at each other?
Dennis Ivan - this is more or less the case. The thing a Battleship is almost perfect for is covering troops for an amphibious landing. The tonnage of ordinance on target from an Iowa class just can’t be matched. Replacing it with a combination of aircraft and missiles works but it’s stupendously expensive. Plus we’re developing GPS guided “smart shells” for the 5in guns. The same principle could substantially increase the range and accuracy of big naval rifles. I think we should have 2. Modern, nuclear powered battleships with enough C&C equipment to lead its own battle group. I’d put 1 on each coast, attached to it’s own dedicated reserve station. That way they exist in a constant state of semi activation. Cuts costs but the ship never really sleeps, which is when the majority of deterioration happens. Plus you get a group of sailors training and maintaining the ship year round. Just my 2 cents.
@@dennisivan85 we have trouble crewing the ships we do have and modern warships are heavily automated, so the crew requirements of an Oliver Perry class frigate is two thirds that of a Ticonderoga class aegis cruiser. Smaller ships are ironically more manpower intensive than big boys these days
Wargaming's design document on any French light vehicle. 1) Obvious. 2) Fast. 2a) So fast it becomes hard to hit and breaks the game. 3) Annoying to kill even when hit. 4) HE to spam everything with. The Kleber is just a French wheelie from World of Tanks given seafaring form.
"zipping around at ridiculous speed and shooting everyone" wait, I thought that is how Destroyers were played.... OMG this new "Meta" is how I have always played Destroyers, its fun to zip around the enemy shooting torps at them. 😁😁😁
One thing that has always puzzled me has been why detection by aircraft isn't greater than by ship. Aside from simple game mechanics, it would seem that detection by aircraft that can see far greater "should" be farther than detection by surface ship.
>Plays Yueyang Enemy Daring, Z52, Hakuryo, Moskva and Des Moines decide to visit the very same cap youre trying to secure for your team Now I play Montana from 18km away.
actually Jingles, the Kleber can get down to a detection range of 7.76 kilometers with both CE and CSM1 And no, I refuse to go to the salt mines because I still play the Kleber like it should be played
"...Scouting with his face instead of his eyes..."
Best thing I've heard all day
Me too, but for me it's only 5.30 in the morning. ^^
Haha yeah, jingles do not ever change 😂
Reminds me of some very ugly gnome def tanks in World of Warcraft.
@@takruparrot9438 I wonder who that might be sonny lol
So it's Scott sterling
"zipping around at ridiculous speed and shooting everyone" sounds like a lot like a T-50-2 before physics were introduced into WoT ^^
Water doesnt have hills ...
That thing was insanely fun, even after physics got introduced. Too bad it got removed.
@@nauticalvideos2506 They re-added it and gifted it to everyone... But it is just not the same levels of fun anymore.
@@Muck006 no but it has waves 😂😂😂
Ahh good times.
I don’t play world of warships
I don’t play world of tanks
So why do I watch these videos
Because jingles commentary is just that good
Same here, I did play those games a lot but they (wg) have a way of ruining a good game and make it a terribly balanced mess tbh.
Same
I would play them but I cannot due to computer problems. Jingles commentary is almost as good as playing the game itself.
Same. I watches tons of his videos before starting to play.
I mostly play warthunder. But jingles makes me laugh.
"Because when did an aircraft carrier catch fire in real life?"
I started laughing before you even started throwing up the shots of the Franklin/ Oriskany/ Enterprise/ Forrestal/ etc. All of those got beat into our heads from boot camp onward as examples.
Oh, the Forrestal fire. Or as some call it, "John McCain's handiwork".
@@richardm3023 just stop. Take your fake news bullshit somewhere else, troll.
Richard M, how was that McCain’s fault? A Phantom shot a Skyhawk that may have been McCain’s plane. Then the old ordnance caught fire. Was McCain supposed to get out of the cockpit and piss out the fires before the unstable bombs went off?
I think it might have been invented by the same guy who decided that ships are easilly spotted from the surface than the air.
Don't forget the Taiho!
Dang! I finally get featured in a Jingles video after 6 years and it's one of my most embarrassing performances of the week! NOooooooo! I was in the Georgia on the opposing team :(
*slaps aircraft carrier*
"This baby can hold so many fires"
Oh. Yay. Another max range HE spammer. Gee, Wargaming, this is exactly what we all wanted...
The entire game should just be called World of HE Spam at this point.
Fire is how you kill BB's in anything not another BB. It's just how the game is. No torpedoes aren't an option. If you are hit by ship launched torps it's not that the ship torping you is good it's that your brain is underpowered.
Just wait for the Kolbert with it's 4x2 127mm ultra rapid fire cannons xD
@@Ushio01 Meanwhile, if you die to fires in a BB, it means you were trying to do your job.
Above tier VIII I basically moved away from BBs (this was already when I had Montana, Yamato, Kurfurst) once the british BBs and the ships like Worcestor came out. After that why play battleships? You can't move in or else you're burned down under 2 minutes, all the while plagued with terrible RNG on CAs just sitting there, or with competent players that do well enough to keep hidden when you aim at them.
Looks like I've got to get myself a ..
..Midway. Obviously
Don't do it, go for Haku ;)
Wargaming logic....
Players: This destroyer is a bit OP in regards to "A" and "B".
Wargaming: Thanks for the feed back, we will nerf "C" and "D" to fix that.
When jingles made the joke of defensive AA i was in tears.
Unfortunately def AA itself is the real joke >.
Bro, it was a hell of a joke! So yes, I cried tears too and laughed! But those tears were also genuine because AA is also a fuckin' joke and a half with a side order of fries and its 3 fries short of a happy meal.
"the laugh is fake. only the tears are real"
@@lukum55 It is, as the carrier, if determined, will not only get their strike home, but, unless terribly unlucky or stupid with plane management, also have a fresh squadron of some description at the ready immediately after having the last of their planes swatted by the def AA. These planes can then zoom in in the knowledge that the consumable is on cooldown. The CV rework is an utter failure, with WG just not willing to admit their mistake.
Ned Ryerson
Amen!
I actually liked the RTS style CV play. I made it up to USS Essex before the rework then saw the "improvement" and sold every single cv I had. Its still a clusterf*ck in my opinion
When you think about it, 100% of the carriers in the current Russian fleet have been put out of action by fires.
I think the 'what is going on' with Wargaming is they are trying to cater to the Russian player base who apparently have a completely different way of playing the game from the EU and possibly NA servers and for the past couple years have been screaming at Wargaming on how there is an anti-soviet bias in the game becuse for their meta, the russian ships really aren't that great.
And honestly the Russians spend more money on this game than I think we do so.....
huh that made me very curious as to what the russian meta is
Anything to break the horrible stealth/HE meta is a good thing.
Nope, WG just took easy route: making models and skins and pushing them to “surprise mechanics" or similar stuff; not making fun, interesting and balance game.
The simple solution would be to balance the ships the way that makes Ivan happy and only do it on the Russian server.
I guess reality has a Russian bias too, considering their shit navy
16 km range HE spammer and they wonder why BBs camp and shoot HE themself.🤦♂️
to be fair, that carrier on their team should of been capb of running down the klebar, but i think from what i seen in the video he went for BBs majority of the time
The only balance WG cares about it the balance of their bank account.
Next thing we know, you'll be saying that our fathers were hamsters and our mothers smelled of elderberries.
Now go to the saltmines or he'll taunt you the second time.
don't forget the army boots
What are you doing in England?
I don't think Wargaming know what Wargaming 2019 is doing, I'm totaly at a loss but just playing the game and being entertained by their antics and cunning plans, Some interesting observations Amiral Arriere Gingeles
In the Kii's defence - sure, he knew he was spotted by a destroyer. But he also knew that destroyer was a Kleber, which 'can't' stealth-torp anymore, so why should he worry about torpedoes~?
"When did an aircraft carrier ever catch fire?"
**shows like five or six examples**
Pfft, I know right? That’s far from conclusive. They all could have been flukes. I mean it’s not like they are filled with gasoline, bombs, rockets, and aircraft (often carrying the prior mentioned items in thin aluminum skin) I can’t see any possible reason for such a thing to happen.
It’s like saying that. An 800 ft ocean liner could hit an iceberg and sink. Absolutely preposterous.
Hell, he could have just posted photos of the Oriskany, Forrestal, Enterprise, and Admiral Kuznetsov, And those are just the ones that had major fires during "peacetime" (not actually being shot at by the enemy) since WWII. Go home War Gaming, you've had too much vodka again.`
@@seafodder6129 not enough i would say lol
I mean, you've got 5 examples from just the Battle of Midway alone.
@@seafodder6129 I mean, all you need is a very small spill and the deck temp to climb above 114° f. Hapens to be the vapor point of high octane fuel and the point where a small spark can ignite said vapor.
Kleber scouts by setting enemy ships on fire and making their detection range bloom when they fire their guns. :P
3:50 and now with the AA rework even the "AA cruiser" are no match for most of the base AA of BBs, the only difference being that BBs tend to lose a lot of AA capability at the end of the match because HE spamming and AA cruiser tend to implode instanly by "broadside"/"overmatch from the front" padelling
To be fair though there is that lovely overpen mechanic that let's so many cruiser players sail around broadside without a care in the world and the BB's just can't punish it until RNGesus says "OK, you can kill it now it's set 3 fires on you, blown off most of your AA and forced you to burn through 2 heals to keep what little HP you have left" 😂
Not disagreeing with you btw. Just pointing out that frustrating crap is a 2 way street in WoWs 😉
@@MoA-Reload... You descrived me playing Yamato. When you overpen proadsiding cruiser 20 on one game, you start questoning IS there any point of playing whole game anymore.
I actually stopped shooting broadside cruisers in Yammy, I wait for them to attempt to angle against me. This generally gives you enough "armor" that you won't overpen.
"zipping around at ridiculous speed" just like the 'veeled wehicle' EBR in WOT
Jingles: "Because when did an aircraft carrier catch fire in real life?" *cough* Taiho *cough*
*cough* Yorktown, Enterprise, Midway, Forrestal *cough* 😆😊
Jingles, thank you so much for pointing out in a single video so many problems created by WG themselves recently.... When i see that replay (and shout out to that Kleber captain, amazing game!), I really wonder why I still play the game.... But I know exactly why I don't bother anymore and dont try to grind to high tiers! Like in wot, best tiers are between 4 and 7 now. Thanks to all WG changes!!
So, Jingles, what you mean to say, is this French Destroyer is like a certain set of French Wheeled Light Tanks?
Wargaming really needs to get their shit together when it comes to carrier interactions.
You really only had to stop at "together".
I miss the old Kraken Clip...
Screw you, TH-cam copyright system, claiming 20 minute long videos for 3 seconds of footage/audio.
every day i play WoWs less and less and every Jingles video I watch makes me realize that was a good decision
Yeah I already stopped but I still enjoy his WoW videos
Lol, you lost me at that moment of "when has a carrier ever caught fire" and spammed historical photographs of floating bbq's. Made my day XD
Jingles I'm gonna try to be informative. I realize this will spark the ire of many but CV's are NOT "functionally immune to fire" they have very different fire mechanics.
First off they have a .8 fire resist chance at base, for all tiers. At tier4 this is pretty normal but by tierX most ships have .5 resist. Resist is like golf, the lower the better. In effect it means a TierX CV is about 1/3 more likely to catch fire than any other TierX ship in the entire game without any other additional skills at play.
CV's take more fire damage per second. All other ships in the game take .3% fire damage per second. CV's take 1% damage per second, in exchange they have dramatically reduced fire durations of 5 seconds compared to BB's at 60sec, CL/DD at 30sec. This means CV's take 5% total damage from a fire, where as a CL or DD would take 9% (assuming it burns for full duration).
Also of note CV's have no repairs and 100% of fire damage can be repaired by other ships. This also means any sort of anti-fire skills like the India Yankee flag or similar (that reduce fire duration) will generally have minimal impact for a CV but will have a hugely magnified impact for every other ship type because they are based on modifying fire durations.
So while yes CV's have very short fire durations, they also take triple fire damage during those short fires AND their means to mitigate fire damage are basically nothing. They are also more likely to catch on fire than nearly any other ship tier starting at Tier6 and it only gets worse as they go higher. The big reason for all this difference in fire for CV's is that CV's still retain the "can't launch planes while on fire" thing from the RTS era. So the realities of a normal duration perma fire would basically just shut down the CV for a minute or until the automated damage control could save them. In most cases it would mean once a CV is getting hit by HE they are just functionally shut out of the game and might aswell just go afk. So they reduced fire duration, increased fire damage to compensate, and kept fire damage slightly lower than other ships because they don't have repair parties, can't manually damage control fires, and with the changes to fire duration cannot build against fire damage like other ships could (and arguably its weak on other ships as is).
The only problem with "CV durability" is TierX CV's armored decks, they are entirely too thick from a gameplay perspective. Is thicker deck armor than any other ship, it will shatter basically most HE in the game, will not be overmatched by basically anything since it will always be impacted by AP at serious angles too. This means in effect the TierX CV's are entirely too durable for what they are due to game mechanics. They are nearly immune to CV rockets except fires. They are nearly immune to HE DB's except fires. They are nearly immune to AP at range unless broadside. They are nearly immune to all HE shells outside of fires.
You'll note that Hindy was basically shattering most if not all of their HE shots on the armored deck. Yet couldn't pen with its AP realistically. In effect that Midways he better armor setup than most BB's in the game. Almost purely because of the armored deck. Even if its not real world compliant they need to slash TierX armored decks thickness dramatically. Let it shatter DD HE and CV Rockets. Let it get some pens/damage from CA HE and HE DB's. Let BB HE straight up anal it.
To be fair the fire thing doesn't matter because their damage con lasts a minute. That's three times longer than any other ship in the game. And cv are rarely spotted for long enough to actually punish that minute long damage con. Then even once the damage con is up, the cv takes a quarter as much damage from a fire as a bb would. Sure they are more likely to catch fire, they have no heals, and the fires hurt a lot faster. But they are still the most fire resistant class as a whole.
Ive been in the same situation as the Hindenburg but in my Henri IV and I couldnt do shit with MBR and every thing else, I had to actually speed boost around him to get his broadside and blapp that with AP. CVs are so retard proof its hilarious.
I say keep the way the aircraft work, but set the ships themselves back to the "if they're burning, let them burn" era. The more CVs littering the ocean floor, the better.
I haven't played WoWS for over 2 or 3 years now but I am still watching Jingles.
It always amazes me how one person can have such knowledge about this game. Seriously...
This kind of scouting is called AGGRESSIVE SCOUTING lol
Recon by fire? Lol
I guess you could say the Kléber was klébbed into the pits of nerfed hell, from which many are still trying to escape.
okay I'll see myself out. thanks & good night!
14:28 Akisuki : "Did you get something wrong again, hooman ?
that....erm....doesnt sound like a cat
Kleber nerfs are justified. It's counter is basically the CV, even at that one would struggle to hit it. Don't forget that super fast torps too.
There is some hidden utility in these kinds of destroyers, and that's in the tanking potential. These things are so quick and hard to hit, that you end up taking a lot of fire. Because every single shot that's fired at you is a shot that isn't aimed at your teammates, that drastically increases your chances of winning.
Ok.
Thank Glod it's none of my potato games.
As a CV player (pls don't kill me now), I totally agree that they are pretty OP in the current meta. Their damage potential is huge, they can hit anything and hurt it badly, all the while having pretty good chances of survival (thx automatic repair party that reloads faster than light).
I wonder how WG could balance them with the current gameplay because believe me, same tier and higher tier AA do hurt airplanes. So much so that if I want to have planes at the end of the battle AND help my team vs the most dangerous targets, I have to use slingshot, purposefully waste one charge of my squadron. Just if you wonder, second charge will conduct the attack while last gets shredded to pieces, no matter what. I don't have any tier X CV, I can't speak about them. But get a tier VI CV in a tier VIII fight... Boy, you'd better know bloody well what you're doing if you want to do anything...
However, despite these drawbacks, it is clear that a top tier CV commanded by a semi competent player will utterly dominate the match. That has to change, because it ain't to much fun for the guys on the receiving end... The question is how to balance them ? Increase AA damage or reduce planes HP ? Then CVs'll get irrelevant as you'll lose all your planes reserves after 2 or 3 outings with each squadron type, even more than with the old system. Balance the damage they inflict ? Maybe, but when you look at it, a single bomb or torpedo doesn't deal that much damage (except AP bombs landing on your citadel). Take their accuracy into account and the maneuvers that the target can take, in fine, you wouldn't deal much damage (all that at the cost of a lot of planes).
Do you have any ideas ? And don't you dare to tell me rEmoVe cV: they are a part of the game as much as any other ship, have historical significance and are also a balancing factor against certain ships !
The problem WG faced is that CV’s ended naval gun combat in real life. How do you balance that. In theory a CV should not even be on the map in the first place but if engaged by almost any surface combatant is basically a pretty immediate kill. The worst decision they ever made was including them in the first place. Having done so they cannot remove them and will now have to live with the fact they will never properly balance them either the CV will feel impotent or godlike as on one hand it can see almost anything and strike almost anywhere whereas the alternative is to extend plane reloads etc and make the gameplay for the CV player really dull.
One change that might help would be to increase the time between an attack (for example dropping torps) and the attack actually hitting. Torps would have longer safe area after being dropped and bombs would have a longer fall time. Idk if that would work for rockets but perhaps those could replaced with interceptors/fighters that could damage enemy planes rather than ships
Maybe don't touch the planes at all, bring back manual control of the ship from above(or in some other way to make players more focused on survivability and not 100% on offense) , and make its survivability non-existent in close combat and especially BB shells.
Most players anyway just hug the corner and spam planes, just make them easier to kill in close quarters combat in the end of the game ffs. The one problem with the old system was the skill gap, a noob in CV would be almost useless, a unicum would be a war god. And because MM does not take into account player skill/exp/WR%/something similar and you have 1 or 2 CVs per match, that skill gap made ALL the difference , the bigger the skill gap was between opposing CV players, the more lopsided the match was. Now, they could have balanced the gap between skill floor and skill ceiling in the context of old gameplay BUT, they didn't saw that as a solution to all their problems. They wanted to address one other thing with a same rework, and that was a very small CV player base which they thought was a style of gameplay issue and i would argue it was more of a "I 5 match a week CV player have no incentive to play CV anymore, cause 1/3 of the time I end up against the super unicum in OP CV (read: saipan with T9 planes, top. kek.) who i have to watch for the next 10 minutes as he completely diminishes my influence on the game and wins it for his team by him self". I was a free to play CV player with almost 80% WR in randoms, and still couldn't do shit against unicums in saipans lol. So they made a rework going balls deep and "scouting" with their faces as Jingles says and made a glorious piece of turd that no one knows what to do now with. I would also argue that the old system in its core was excellent, definitely needed tweaking, but the fun was there for the sufficient number of players to get 1-2 CVs almost every game. But they just had to fuck things up completely... Sry if my english wasn't good.
Either back to hard cap limit on the number of planes in the hanger(except that would basically hobble CV's badly and result on deplaned CV's sailing to their death forgetting their ship is still worth points) or dramatically increase the turn around time for strikes or provide unlimited DFAA and invulnerable AA mounts.
I'd really like to see them change DFAA to apply a "suppressed" effect to the CV player to make it much harder to strike through similar to the effect of being suppressed in Post Scriptum. Suggested it quite a few times on the forums, dev streams and community manager streams since CV rework was first in public test but not a hint of anything like that so meh, guess spreadsheet says otherwise 😂
@@grahambrown3519 You may have a point about the inclusion of CVs in the game but then again, as you say yourself, now that they are here, we have to find a way to balance them. And they may be ! Old CVs were indeed godlike in unicum hands. However, I have vivid memories of planes literally dropping down from the sky when you focused them. It may have been random but you had more a sense of accomplishment and involvement as you do know...
Well done Chris... good thing you found 2 noob BBs and 2 noob DDs. I won't count the Groz as he didn't have a chance.
It´s more of a Tashkent than a Khabarovsk, because Khaba has to put up with a max range of 13.5km, Tashkent can reach 15.2km which is much closer to Klebers 16.3km. Additionally, Kleber has a stock range of 13.6km which is better than a full range build Khaba.
The CV immune to fire thing is a part of my main gripes with the CV revoke, they utterly removed the CV vs CV interaction, no real fighters, CV's repair party is godlike so no point in losing half your aircraft to land 1 strike, other then dropping fighters over friendly DD's there is no interaction between opposing CV's.
"nerfed into Oblivion"
*proceeds to do 120k to battleships with zero counterplay aside from carriers*
It's not impossible to hit these buggers, but sadly you have to deal with the nerfed AP. Swapping to HE is usually a losing proposition too, unless you're British.
6:22 the Freddy got 2 floods. Don't change, Jingles.
i never understood why aircraft carriers couldn't be designed so they're highly resistant to enemy aircraft but rather vulnerable to surface ship fire. if your carrier player is dumb enough to get caught by surface ships then the carrier deserves to take damage, or it's the end of the game now and carrier survival really doesn't matter.
This reminds me of one of Jingles Kamikaze videos where he says. “ Knowing you’re about to be fucked and being able to do anything about it are two very different things.”
LoL, when Jingles said "Because when did an aircraft carrier catch fire in real life?" the first thing that sprung to mind were first and second Japanese carrier divisions xDD
19:22 my great uncle was on USS Forrestal when she burned, he was only a deck below where it reached (that image looks closest to it)
Last time I was this early I hadn't thought of a joke about how early i was...
Damn that's good
Akshually Jingles, the Kremlin has a base AA rating of 100
Father used to say, " if you are a turd and you have money, then that what you are a polished turd", thank you Jingles for reminding me of the English humour my Father had, two thumbs up
Fun fact: In the 8th minute, a Neptune destroyed a Massachusetts by burning.
What it means is that it's secondaries set it on fire and killed it, wow
Alex tsui as a Massachusetts player who loves his ship, seeing that filled me with a mix of rage and shame. Rage that a Neptune got so close without dying, and shame that the Massachusetts player allowed it to happen.
@@Masterchiefkf3 so true, it should have been the opposite
“You’re basically just polishing a turd”? Wow! I at least thought Jingles would say that about the Kreml! Not the Kléber! Ohhhhh boy. Someone get the Physics & Realism guy on the phone! And then after that, call 06Wallst!
Great video on friendship.
No auto-correct, I meant friendships.
For the love of--
i feel like there is an over abundance of destroyer videos. oh well i still enjoy them
One of the funniest ships in wows, it’s tricky but extremely tense and fun to play Kléber, I love that ship (such as Le Terrible, Tashkent, Mogador even if mogador lack a bit of firepower imo)... the only one I dislike is the Khaba.
Bcoz it remains too slow compared to Kléber and players have not such hard time hitting Khaba these days.
But Kléber is definitely a must have, it’s so cool to carry games in this thing. ❤️
GG btw, very well played 👌
*French ship video*
Bonjour here
Monsieur Jingles. You are ze bold one
The replay bug messed with my brain. My jaw dropped when I thought he got deleted 😂
cracks me up good editing jingles
Ah yes, we all know carriers never caught fire, that's why we don't worry about lighting matches in gasoline stations
Something tells me that you really, really really want to join the French navy........
Happy Brexxit Jingles :D
No, No, No! Jingles is ex-Royal Navy. The entire purpose of the Royal Navy is to sink the French Navy on a regular basis - that has been our policy for the last 600 years, why change!
@@justinstephenson9360 Or, as Drachinifel would put it: using the French Navy as an expanded RN fleet reserve.
I thought sinking the Spanish navy was what the Royal Navy was for
@@dakkenblah1450 I think that is what is called a bonus!
But no the policy objective is always to sink the French navy, even when technically they are our allies
@@justinstephenson9360 True, even when they are your ally in a war you just have to sink some French ships
When Jingles said "WG nerfed the health of Kremlin's already terrible AA..." I hope tha was sarcasm as well - Kremlin has the BEST AA VALUES IN THE GAME! Longest long range aura, most DPM on that aura of ANY ship, most flak bursts, and COMPARABLE Mid and short range AA to Montana, making its AA INSANELY BETTER THAN EVEN MONTANA!
I am currently grinding FXP just as fast as I can manage to hopefully pick the soon(tm) to be introduced tier X IJN DD.. you know, the one with a base 37 knot speed, twin 5 tube torp launchers, option to take TRB instead of smoke, and much improved duel purpose 127's with a 4 second refire delay. (Ya know, kinds of a Super Yugumo!) but yea driving DD's these days is rough.. But I have learned.. drive BB's like cruisers, cruisers like DD's, and DD's like BB's and you'll be fine.. totally historically accurate!
Now it's the Kléberovsk. I think the main issue with stealth DD play and their weakness to Radar and Sonar is the lack of any Fog of War mechanic. Sonar can quite well identify a vessel (at least nowadays), but even the most modern systems sometimes have trouble determining the distance. Radar is quite bad at identifying what exactly is there, and early systems had trouble seeing stuff in front of islands. A step-by-step identification (enemy, type, class) like in RTW would help immensely on the realism and balance of visibility in this game.
So I guess in the new meta wargaming wants DDs to stop capping and leave that to the inevitable submarines?
I did double take to when I saw the Hindenburg health bar disappear.
"Oh no the Hindenburg has been sunk. Just the CVs now."
Nope just a replay glitch as Jingles said
Don't forget the Khab also came out during the stealth firing period of the game, so it could shoot you from so far away that you couldn't see it
On the topic of aircraft carriers in WOWS not burning, I remember you talking about British carriers needing heavily armored decks to survive German bombings in an earlier video. Do you know if that reduced the chances of a fire catching on those carriers with armored decks or did it not really make much of a difference?
Me: Do you like playing cruisers or destroyers?
Kleber player: Yes
What is selfish about a ship that draws enemy fire for like 10 minutes straight? It's the team that fails to capitalize
It's called "reconnaissance by fire"
I'd say Kleberski is the only DD who should really enjoy playing on the map "Ocean"
Aka aggressive recon
You can do it in a kaba too. Any thing that can do 42 knots or better and has more than 15km on the guns will do pretty well in the role
At least the Kleber still has those fast torpedoes with fantastic angles & main battery reload to distinguish it from the Russians. Sort of. Khaba can't ambush worth a damn.
19:50 Whats the matter with that torpedo strike? I don't play carriers, why did it stray so much? I see this sometimes myself, evidently there is some mechanic involved.
Didn't give the planes time to settle into the attack run and/or turned during the run. Sometimes you do it deliberately for the same reason you switch your torpedo launchers from narrow to wide spread
yeah with the hinden and midway IN the old RTS carriers one of them would have died and my money would have been on the midway dieing because YOU COULDNT launch planes while your deck was on fire thank you WeeGee for fucking things up
Playing the french navy the manly way instead the stereotype french way, reminds me of Eddie Izzard's skit on the american view of the french because Gen. Lafayette.
Jingle's he's doing recon by fire.....😂😂😂
They've made an EBR 105 that can float !
The laughter 👊🤣. I wanna play it. Looks fun. Any tips to start with what ship ?
Thanks Jingles.
seems like Wargaming is taking the Taffy 3 approach to CVs vs. Surface Ships
To be fair, Chris is also a bloody good shot.
So its a wheeled scout for the sea?
But Jingles from a naval history stand point didn’t the introduction of aircraft and carriers spell the end of traditional big gun warships anyway? Much like the advance of firearms technology with rifled barrels and mini ball bullets ended the long standing (no pun intended )Napoleon style of army’s lining up to take shots at each other?
Dennis Ivan - this is more or less the case. The thing a Battleship is almost perfect for is covering troops for an amphibious landing. The tonnage of ordinance on target from an Iowa class just can’t be matched. Replacing it with a combination of aircraft and missiles works but it’s stupendously expensive. Plus we’re developing GPS guided “smart shells” for the 5in guns. The same principle could substantially increase the range and accuracy of big naval rifles.
I think we should have 2. Modern, nuclear powered battleships with enough C&C equipment to lead its own battle group. I’d put 1 on each coast, attached to it’s own dedicated reserve station. That way they exist in a constant state of semi activation. Cuts costs but the ship never really sleeps, which is when the majority of deterioration happens. Plus you get a group of sailors training and maintaining the ship year round.
Just my 2 cents.
@@dennisivan85 the problem there is a small ship like that is uncomfortable at sea and has limited range.
simple can be good though.
@@dennisivan85 we have trouble crewing the ships we do have and modern warships are heavily automated, so the crew requirements of an Oliver Perry class frigate is two thirds that of a Ticonderoga class aegis cruiser. Smaller ships are ironically more manpower intensive than big boys these days
Wargaming's design document on any French light vehicle.
1) Obvious.
2) Fast.
2a) So fast it becomes hard to hit and breaks the game.
3) Annoying to kill even when hit.
4) HE to spam everything with.
The Kleber is just a French wheelie from World of Tanks given seafaring form.
"zipping around at ridiculous speed and shooting everyone" wait, I thought that is how Destroyers were played.... OMG this new "Meta" is how I have always played Destroyers, its fun to zip around the enemy shooting torps at them. 😁😁😁
One thing that has always puzzled me has been why detection by aircraft isn't greater than by ship. Aside from simple game mechanics, it would seem that detection by aircraft that can see far greater "should" be farther than detection by surface ship.
Because then everyone would be perma spotted from the jump
Yep, would break the game completely and dds wouldn't leave the spawn.
You're absolutely right about the CV issue! Best thing they can do at this point is remove them from the game and let us play ships!!!
Kleber, like the Horrorgumo and Khaba, isn't a destroyer. It's a light cruiser in the DD tree that does a better job as a CL than actual CL's.
19:18 The end of WWI, or the start of Jingles trolling WG, we will never know :-)
i think you ment WW ll cause if i remember right carriers were not really a thing in WWl
@@jordanrea2311 WWII ended in 1918? The only joke was about the timestamp and Jingles humour.
I'm surprised that you have not done a review of the British heavy cruiser line or the British destroyer.
>Plays Yueyang
Enemy Daring, Z52, Hakuryo, Moskva and Des Moines decide to visit the very same cap youre trying to secure for your team
Now I play Montana from 18km away.
Kleber is now the EBR of Warships
There is still a lot of french about Kleber, it still moves 4 times faster while going backwards and running away.
the Le Terrible has the same issue, can be seen from space but its fast as hell and very hard to pin down
well khabarovsk has smoke right? how is it the same with kleber that has no smoke and bad concealment?
I see the wine and baguettes are back.
Somebody get Claus. They've turned a ship into a *Veeled Wehicle*...
Hey Jingles, haven’t seen other mentioned it but there seems to be a hollow hiss going on in your mic. May want to check it out.
I think they’re learning from the Blitz version, in which DDs are king and no one is scared of the Yamato
To quote The Mandalorian, "This is the way."
actually Jingles, the Kleber can get down to a detection range of 7.76 kilometers with both CE and CSM1
And no, I refuse to go to the salt mines because I still play the Kleber like it should be played
+1 for the extreme sarcasm at 19:15!