We need a robotic plant growing experiment on Mars: Future Agriculture Research Mars Experimentation Robot (FARMER) that can sow and reap, then Evaluate, Analyze & Test (EAT) Mars-grown produce for its potential use in Humans On Mars Extended Stay Technology Experiment And Development Stations (HOMESTEADS).
I agree they have to be able to do a massive robot project that does it all, send 3 rockets up over 5 years and have the robots start building. But let's be real the funding isn't there.
Jon Cross an alternative would be von Neumann probes that are Mars-bound; that is, self-replicating machines on Mars that would process ores in the soil and make more of themselves while laying essential infrastructure like pipelines to bring water from the polar icecaps to more temperate areas with nutrient rich soil and also construct tunnels for habitation/transportation. The first such von Neumann Mars probe would be hideously expensive but the second one would be free, and every one thereafter.
Jon Cross in the province of science fiction, hand-waving overcomes all such technical difficulties but in the real world whatever man makes, entropy breaks. So the short answer is: probably not. When somebody makes a 3-D printer that’s capable of printing out and assembling another 3-D printer I will sit up and pay attention.
A lot of crop plants (like forest trees) need symbiotic mycorrhizae-type fungi to help them draw moisture and minerals from the soil. A problem with overfertilized soil is the lack of these fungi. Probably processed feces (though important) would not suffice for growing potatoes effectively. In the experiment, the grass is a little defined addition to the substrate and could easily contain some of the fungi. Most likely a Martian farmer will need a sample from terrestrial soil as an inoculum for microorganisms in addition to processed feces and seed potatoes.
This. It's actually not a very complex process. We have experience even here on earth of re-establishment of a biome. Certain natural disasters "sterilize" the soil... or rather remove it entirely. Over time it grows. We know it takes a long time. But on a limited scale we could do it. Though the first thing is we need to spray Cyanobacter on mars to begin another oxygenation event.
In the book, Watney had Earth soil from his botany experiments which he used in addition to human waste and Martian soil. Can’t remember if the movie noted that little detail.
Good points. 70 years ago my family moved onto some infertile land in the Western Australian wheat growing region. The first step towards making the soil fertile was to establish legumes such as clover and lupins to fix nitrogen in the soil and provide soil humus which would hold moisture and feed soil bacteria. But legumes require rhizobia to survive and the soil was acidic, toxic to these bacteria. So we had to coat the clover seeds with a rhizobia mixture then coat that with powdered limestone to neutralise the acid. Within a decade pale grey infertile sandy soil had turned into dark coloured, productive agricultural soil. So 'terraforming' the Earth is possible, I participated in this successful experiment as a child. But the best conditions on Mars are much worse in every way than the worst conditions on Earth. Probably some food could be grown there on a small scale, enough to supplement the diet of a research station staff but I wouldn't hope for much more than that.
How do you explain hydroponic then? My hydroponic garden only gets water + a powered fertilizer and everything grows bigger and better. Get an education. Oh, do I have to explain to how you can make cuttings by using only a glass of water too?
@@hunggar4659 Yes most likely any attempt to settle Mars or even establish a long-term research station would have to depend on hydroponics for any fresh food. In cramped, sealed quarters this would be on a relatively small scale. Possibly they could bring fish eggs with them and raise fish in tanks to get a little fresh animal protein too.
@Lance Jagger There are eight planets if you want to be scientifically accurate. I'm the only hoarder in my family now, but I don't want to leave all my stuff for my family to have to get rid of after I die. What do you think of Elon Musk blowing up rockets and then cleaning up after. He even gave the landing site a new paint job. Apparently he was concerned about the image that he left for others to see.
@@spiralect @wdd3141 No reaction, just heat. Calcium perchlorate is an oxidiser same as potassium nitrate (the oxidiser used in gunpowder). Chemical formula is Ca(ClO4)2, 8 oxygen atoms per molecule. All you have to do is heat it up and it will start releasing oxygen. This is why compounds like these can be so dangerous. If you mix say, 70% potassium nitrate with 30% charcoal, the carbon in the charcoal acts as fuel, which when burnt obviously produces heat, this heat then causes the nitrate to breakdown and release oxygen. This increases the oxygen concentrating by some orders of magnitude compared the meagre ~20% in our atmosphere. If you've ever soaked a pack of biscuits in liquid oxygen and lit it on fire you know oxygen is usually the limiting factor in combustion on Earth. Mixing an oxidiser in with your fuel will turn it from a smouldering flame into a full on explosion. Just try to light charcoal dust on fire, it's practically impossible, but mix it with potassium nitrate and BOOM. Add a little sulfur to lower the ignition temperature and you have black powder, but you didn't hear that from me lol. So yeah same thing occurs with calcium perchlorate and sugar. The sugar acts as the fuel and the perchlorate provides the oxygen. SRBs and fireworks work in this way, creating a solid mixture of fuel and oxidiser. Liquid fuel rockets use liquid oxygen and some liquid fuel (kerosine, hydrogen, methane, etc). The benefit of solid fuel is it's more compact, much higher energy density. The downside is you have no control, it's basically a big firework.
Calcium perchlorate is not the only perchlorate mentioned in the reports. And those reports are limited in their scope. it also should be noted that every pot grower in the world knows that you don't need soil to grow plants.
@@rene5600 What are you on about?? Holland is fully correct, in fact in most places in the world the word ''holland'' is used more than ''The Netherlands''.
@@thijmendehaas1339 'Holland is a region and former province on the western coast of the Netherlands.' Because people from the Netherlands view it as incorrect 'However, some in the Netherlands, particularly those from regions outside Holland, may find it undesirable or misrepresentative to use the term for the whole country.' This person is from the Netherlands
Wonderful and informative as always! If anyone who hasn't read or watched The Martian as the opportunity, I highly recommend you do so. While I personally think the book is better, both are very well done! It's also great if you are a sci fi lover 😊
What 'The Martian' missed and this video also, is that the soil on Earth is an ecosystem mostly of microbes. Plants can take up the most nutrients, when this ecosystem is as rich as possible. To process faeces like in 'The Martian', certain bacteria are needed that free the nitrogen from the larger organic molecules in the faeces. Only then it is available for plants. Plants cannot grow directly on human faeces or urine, they would die!
I recently found out about a fungus that uses a method called radiosythesis to turn gamma radiation into energy in a roughly similar manner to photosynthesis. I'm curious if this method of obtaining energy on Mars is feasible considering how much radiation makes it onto the surface of Mars. It wouldn't be for consumption but for terraforming purposes obviously.
This sounds absolutely fascinating. Of course, we would need to ensure the fungus is contained and doesn't spread like wildfire across the planet. This natural process could open up a very lucrative and environmentally safe option of energy production!
I did not know this was a thing. My initial reaction reading your comment was that you have been reading too much science fiction but having checked, there really are such things as radiotrophic fungi that use radiosynthesis as a means extracting energy from the environment. That is jolly interesting and really rather surprising. Thank you. I'm going to learn more about this.
Aren't hydroponics better than using martian soil? You just need water (which is necessary anyway), a sponge of some kind to keep the water for some time and nutrients, which do not weight too much.
awesome. how hard would it be to ship some dried grass clippings with some food and the first mars habitat arrivals? and they can build and reuse that same soil and keep the clippings coming from the new veggies they grow. while adding in a little more unprocessed regolith along the way to make even nutritious soil.
I think the grass clipping idea wouldn't be likely to be chosen for the mission. It's very expensive to add more weight into spacecrafts, and they'd need many pounds of grass cutting to be successful with that. The journey to Mars will be over 6 months, over that time, they'll probably have accumulated enough organic matter with their processed feces and food waste that can be the start of the compost on Mars.
ever kg counts, if you can save 20kg on fertilizer and stuff, thats 20kg more tools and 3d printers and medical supplies and habitat building supplies you can bring
The Mars 2020 rover recently named "Perseverance" will collect and hold samples, for another spacecraft to possibly pick up in the future. The future spacecraft hasn't been confirmed yet, but Perseverance boutta launch soon!
@@spiralect Well, I guess that's good, but it doesn't in itself return any Martian soil. We need studies to see what will grow and ways to most easily remove harmful elements.
@@joseywales7463 There is air on Mars, it's just mostly made of Carbon Dioxide. Air is a term for a mixture of gasses in an atmosphere. It is though preferable that the Martian atmosphere consists of CO2 and not Methane (CH4) as we can then use electrolysis on the Martian air to split the CO2 into C and O2, with the C being used with plants and the O2 becoming breathable oxygen. If we then go on to stabilize the Martian climate and get a thicker atmosphere, we can then start to replace the CO2 with Oxygen (O2) and Nitrogen (N). Our own atmosphere is mostly made up of Nitrogen too, so simulating our own conditions on Mars would make it easier for us to create a colony with a breathable atmosphere and removing the need for living in modules
There was a small island off the coast of Ireland. It didn't have any soil, just rocks. The people who colonized the island took sand and seaweed, mixed them together and covered the island with about a foot of this sand and seaweed mixture. It worked great. They were able to plant crops. The only problem is, it would be expensive to send tons of seaweed, grass, or whatever to Mars to mix with the soil. It would be necessary though. They should take insects and bacteria from the soil in Antarctica and ship them to Mars first. Possibly even Lichens. Different organisms to get things started.
Fungi can remove not just salts but pathogens as well from our feces and soil, they’re great decomposers, and they also connect plants to each other so the plants can share/transmit nutrients to one another through the medium of fungi.
Growing plants on Mars will be EXTREMELY hard, the simulations are always over optimistic, and never fully model the situation i.e. radiation, 1/100th atmosphere, 1/5th gravity. Even the toxicity of perchlorates are dealt with by just dumping organic matter and rinsing with water ,which both will be on short invaluable supply. Don't get me wrong, I want this to happen, its vital - but the current administration doesn't seem committed with no sense of urgency. All our eggs are in the SpaceX basket right now, once they prove landings on the moon and get ships to Mars, then a fire will be lit under the scientific and engineering community.
I like that you have a fortnightly poll 05:19. Incidentally, according to the book "Good Omens", any music cassette, left in a car for a duration of one of your poll cycles, automatically becomes a Freddy Mercury album.
349 'Dislikes' people who didn't study science at school and didn't understand this video. 'Only Spinach struggling to perform'...everyone (apart from Popeye) hates spinach anyway, so no tears shed over that result :-) I hope someone from Earth gets to eat a 'Mars Bar' on Mars before I shuffle off this mortal coil :-)
infact they would be rather useful, wash them out (you would have to anyway as they are toxic to plants) and collect them as a salt, use them to help generate oxygen, use the calcium chloride that is formed from the decomposition of perchlorate to add calcium into the soil.
Perchlorates also are limited to a couple of cm's of the surface. But the press love a negative, and have trained much of their audience to seek it also.
The atmosphere of mars is 95% co2 which is what plants breathe. So you wouldn't necessarily have to put them inside but the temperature is what would be the problem.
No plants would survive on Mars for at least two reasons... first there's virtually no atmosphere and second most importantly the weak magnetic field of the planet causes the sun to cause extreme radiation damage to anything organic. The planet Mars had rivers and likely other life a long long time ago, but those two reasons is why today we see only dirt and rock.
@@NTJedi That's like saying no humans would survive flying at 30000ft, because there is almost no air up there. True. But .... Airplanes? You don't think explorers on Mars intend to live naked on the surface, do you?
@@ThinkSleepLeave Protective cultivation is indoors... my comment was about outdoors. Just because someone makes a comment does not make them an instant troll. Obviously you're emotionally damaged from many online trolls and incapable of a civilized discussion without jumping into calling someone a troll.
@@astrumspace And I wouldn't have understand it then. You pronounced it right for me :) This is the way it is called in the countries with German language. And as far as I know isn't that plant 'British born'. So...
Autonomous construction systems are likely to be sent to Mars before any lengthy crewed missions. Aside from building workshops and habitats, etc, they could also set up automated plant nurseries. The soil composition could be remotely monitored and adjusted to produce fertile soil for plants. The produce could be harvested, analysed, and frozen to await the arrival of the first astronaus.
For me biggest problem would be temperatures on mars... no plant would grow when it's up to +27C during day on equator and same place at night is -90C. So plants should be only in heated spaces like glasshouses... this would make in my opinion whole process extreme expensive... without releasing into mars atmosphere a lot of gases to terraform this planet it's like trying to life autonomously on north or south pole on earth whole year without supply. First company prove this is possible can try same thing on mars...
This is my thought too, mars doesnt have the magnetic field strength required to support life as we know it, it would need to be underground or insude shielded habitats.
@@tylersoto7465 "Mars has deposits of magnetite especially in the mid southern parts creating magnetic fieds 15-25 times stronger than earths magnetic field." Can you give a scientific reference (of literature) to this claim?
Please make a video on how we can get all material needed for a initial colinization into space and then to mars. That smal dome/tube garden would require material to be built.
They also know there are varying percentages of water ice mixed in with the regolith even in some places at low latitudes. Now you have water, oxygen and then hydrogen to mix with the CO2 in the atmosphere to make methane rocket fuel.
Whether they are using moon soil or mars soil I'm presuming all these growing tests are done here on Earth which realistically is not the same as actually growing on the environment of the planets.
Eh, he did say that those were simulations done here on Earth, and that the only way to actually prove if it works and the results are safe to it is to experiment directly on Mars.
@@BooksandCaffeine Mars greater distance from the Sun means that the maximum intensity (brightness) of sunlight on Mars is much less (about 44%) than that on Earth. Which opens up more questions, like is there enough light to grow plants on Mars?
@@YouPlantTube You're forgetting the attenuation affects of the Earth's armosphere. Nothing like the full illumination seen above the atmosphere is seen on the ground on Earth, while it would be on Mars at times when dust storms weren't blowing. This going to reduce the ratio between the level seen on Earth and that seen on Mars. Also, one can use mirrors to concentrate sunliight. This is simple, passive technology, cheap to build and something that would not break down.
@@mitchellmaytorena1137 Mars atmosphere (100 times thinner than Earth's as it is) has only 2.7% nitrogen, so i doubt any bacteria could extract an amount that tiny.
@@gvasilyev84 Other sources would have to be found, or it would be brought from Earth. I could come with an earlier supply mission at slower speed. Later, nitrogen could come from the atmosphere of Venus or from ammonia shipped from Titan.
We visited Grassington cave in Yorkshire UK deep down in the cave I noticed plant growth at the base of the light bulb fittings. Life seems to find a way. Thank you for the information
(2:49) Using feces as fertilizer must be done with measurement, not just for the presence of harmful bacterial, but it can also increase the concentration of heavy metals and other toxins in the soil. As previously mentioned, some elements are essential, but only in small amounts, and are toxic in larger doses.
Life finds a way. edit: speaking of radiation, isn't Martian soil slightly radioactive as well? It's had virtually no atmosphere for millennia to protect it from UV radiation, solar wind and cosmic rays.
I recall a long-ago science fiction tale about a spaceship crew marooned on a Mars-hostile-to-Terran-life planet. As the crew members died, their bodies were buried in the soil of the planet. Eventually, the last crew member succumbed to the hostile conditions and headed off to "Boot Hill" to "be with his shipmates." Quite to his surprise, he found Terrestrial plants growing among the graves; the planet merely needed some "fertilizer" to begin the "Terraforming" of the planet. (Wishful thinking for Mars, but one never knows how far the likes of Weyland-Yutani will proceed with their atmosphere processors in a "shake and bake" colony.)
I read somewhere that the poles have a magnetosphere so living there might be an option. Also not sure exactly what oxygen toxicity is but i assume venting it into the atmposhere could work. (Unless the pressure difference makes it impossible)
Or we could grow fungi in aerogel blocks. Aerogel has a low pressure compared to atmosphere so it pulls in moisture and atmospheric gas. Just inject fungi into the aerogel.
The same way you put crops to grow on mars. You bring it with your greenhouse equipment. The bacteria probably won’t survive outside, so the soil will have to be treated in the greenhouse.
Man, hope you're well aware of the CHANDRAYAAN-II by ISRO. Would love to watch a vid on the mission once it sends some useful data and information. Plz do it. A humble request from an aspiring Indian aeronautical engineer.
After about a week, the joy of leaving earth might make anyone who goes to Mars regret that they believed in the fantasy of space travel. Its going to be one of the most horrible expieriences humans have ever attempted to endure. And might very well end in death for those that try it.
DeusWrath Eternus no it’s hopeless. A pointless exercise. A fools errand. A pipe dream. A technological (and intellectual) dead end. And I will have no words to eat as if civilization somehow survived another 100 years it would still be a complete waste of effort, doomed to failure, and nobody will even attempt it. You might as well give up on this idea.
Im afraid i have to side with the nay-sayers. The complexity of conforming human beings to life in a completely hostile environment is overwhelming complicated. There hasn't even been a human birth in space yet. Nobody knows what will happen. And thats just a huge small problem. There are hundreds of others.
Processing soil into organic material would be a priority project. Combination of rinsing soil and bacterial perchlorate run a cycle. And being a batch of probiotic soil bacteria and fungi. after 3 or 4 cycles of using material for growth medium. Should be perfect fine. 😎
*+Victor Bruant* Interesting idea but let's not forget the pollination issue. If we're unable to use insect pollinators such as bees, then we rely on wind pollinators and all that implies. In other words, a glass house is not going to allow wind pollination. I'm not suggesting these are insurmountable challenges, so much as we've got a lot of issues to overcome. And the thing is, we'll keep trying to do it. My fantasy is that if we ditch the things that divide us, we could find that our desire/need to reach Mars could be what unites us. Hey, a person can hope, can't they?
I think we should look into plants that can survive in arctic volcanic environments. They seem the most likely to be able to survive on Mars. They are used to low sunlight, cold temperatures, low nutrient soil and few insects to help pollinate. We could experiment and research with plants in as close as possible re-creation environment of Mars and then evenutally send a probe to Mars with the best plant candidates and have a rover do some gardening on Mars. Imagine the implications if the plants actually managed to take root and grow. Even if they eventually die it means life on Mars is possible. God I wish I could work for NASA and do research like this.
In the short term yes. But by figuring out the soil biology, they can spur the planet to begin making its own ecology and eventually its own atmosphere! Salt nutrients will build up over time and eventually make the ground un-farmable there!
One thing to note, the NASA image that attempts to show that martian soil has the required minerals, but that same image notes that although they have been detected, they haven't all been detected in one place and in the required quantities, so you would need to source and process them from where they are available; just like we do on Earth when we need to fortify soul.
We need a robotic plant growing experiment on Mars: Future Agriculture Research Mars Experimentation Robot (FARMER) that can sow and reap, then Evaluate, Analyze & Test (EAT) Mars-grown produce for its potential use in Humans On Mars Extended Stay Technology Experiment And Development Stations (HOMESTEADS).
I agree they have to be able to do a massive robot project that does it all, send 3 rockets up over 5 years and have the robots start building. But let's be real the funding isn't there.
Damn your acronym skills are off the charts!
Jon Cross an alternative would be von Neumann probes that are Mars-bound; that is, self-replicating machines on Mars that would process ores in the soil and make more of themselves while laying essential infrastructure like pipelines to bring water from the polar icecaps to more temperate areas with nutrient rich soil and also construct tunnels for habitation/transportation. The first such von Neumann Mars probe would be hideously expensive but the second one would be free, and every one thereafter.
@@dennisvance4004 Is such a machine capable of being built. I dont see how the meticulously tedious process could be pulled off.
Jon Cross in the province of science fiction, hand-waving overcomes all such technical difficulties but in the real world whatever man makes, entropy breaks. So the short answer is: probably not. When somebody makes a 3-D printer that’s capable of printing out and assembling another 3-D printer I will sit up and pay attention.
Only spinach struggled, well I guess Popeye is staying at home then
That's an irony that Blutto would be the most likely to appreciate.
Lol
Nah, we'll just need to make a stubborn super-spinach for the Moon, Mars, and beyond
how'd the Quinoa do? lol, pronounced (keen wah) not (kwin oh-a) HaHa
Yea
A lot of crop plants (like forest trees) need symbiotic mycorrhizae-type fungi to help them draw moisture and minerals from the soil. A problem with overfertilized soil is the lack of these fungi. Probably processed feces (though important) would not suffice for growing potatoes effectively. In the experiment, the grass is a little defined addition to the substrate and could easily contain some of the fungi. Most likely a Martian farmer will need a sample from terrestrial soil as an inoculum for microorganisms in addition to processed feces and seed potatoes.
This. It's actually not a very complex process. We have experience even here on earth of re-establishment of a biome. Certain natural disasters "sterilize" the soil... or rather remove it entirely. Over time it grows. We know it takes a long time. But on a limited scale we could do it. Though the first thing is we need to spray Cyanobacter on mars to begin another oxygenation event.
In the book, Watney had Earth soil from his botany experiments which he used in addition to human waste and Martian soil. Can’t remember if the movie noted that little detail.
Good points. 70 years ago my family moved onto some infertile land in the Western Australian wheat growing region. The first step towards making the soil fertile was to establish legumes such as clover and lupins to fix nitrogen in the soil and provide soil humus which would hold moisture and feed soil bacteria. But legumes require rhizobia to survive and the soil was acidic, toxic to these bacteria. So we had to coat the clover seeds with a rhizobia mixture then coat that with powdered limestone to neutralise the acid. Within a decade pale grey infertile sandy soil had turned into dark coloured, productive agricultural soil. So 'terraforming' the Earth is possible, I participated in this successful experiment as a child. But the best conditions on Mars are much worse in every way than the worst conditions on Earth. Probably some food could be grown there on a small scale, enough to supplement the diet of a research station staff but I wouldn't hope for much more than that.
How do you explain hydroponic then? My hydroponic garden only gets water + a powered fertilizer and everything grows bigger and better. Get an education.
Oh, do I have to explain to how you can make cuttings by using only a glass of water too?
@@hunggar4659 Yes most likely any attempt to settle Mars or even establish a long-term research station would have to depend on hydroponics for any fresh food. In cramped, sealed quarters this would be on a relatively small scale. Possibly they could bring fish eggs with them and raise fish in tanks to get a little fresh animal protein too.
"The Martian" was a symbiosis between Man and Spud :P
Yes, our government is controlled by Mr. Potato Heads.
@@rjbjr 😂
@Lance Jagger And for a good reason. People shouldn't contaminate their own nests, it's not healthy and doesn't promote wellbeing.
@Lance Jagger There are eight planets if you want to be scientifically accurate.
I'm the only hoarder in my family now, but I don't want to leave all my stuff for my family to have to get rid of after I die.
What do you think of Elon Musk blowing up rockets and then cleaning up after. He even gave the landing site a new paint job. Apparently he was concerned about the image that he left for others to see.
@Lance Jagger You didn't specify where out there was?
Abundance of heavy metal?! I'm volunteering to go to mars baby! \m/ \m/
@@Gary-bz1rf well its doesnt exactly work like that if there was an anstroid made of gold and someone would mine it gold prices would plummet
@@Gary-bz1rf true but we have enogh of that on our planet no need for mining astroids, iron prices are still super low
@@Gary-bz1rf why are you talking about resources and mining, when the post clearly is about music :-/
I see.... Is there slayer or sepultura in the soil? 😎😎🤘
Lmao half of the people in this comment section just got bamboozled, its heavy metal the music
Also, Perchlorates are a great oxidizer, used in SRBs.
@Stephen Turner "Solid Rocket Booster"
A friend interested in chemistry used to tell me that if a perchlorate salt were mixed with sugar it would be like gunpowder.
what chemical reaction makes them release oxygen?
@@spiralect @wdd3141 No reaction, just heat. Calcium perchlorate is an oxidiser same as potassium nitrate (the oxidiser used in gunpowder). Chemical formula is Ca(ClO4)2, 8 oxygen atoms per molecule. All you have to do is heat it up and it will start releasing oxygen. This is why compounds like these can be so dangerous. If you mix say, 70% potassium nitrate with 30% charcoal, the carbon in the charcoal acts as fuel, which when burnt obviously produces heat, this heat then causes the nitrate to breakdown and release oxygen. This increases the oxygen concentrating by some orders of magnitude compared the meagre ~20% in our atmosphere. If you've ever soaked a pack of biscuits in liquid oxygen and lit it on fire you know oxygen is usually the limiting factor in combustion on Earth. Mixing an oxidiser in with your fuel will turn it from a smouldering flame into a full on explosion. Just try to light charcoal dust on fire, it's practically impossible, but mix it with potassium nitrate and BOOM. Add a little sulfur to lower the ignition temperature and you have black powder, but you didn't hear that from me lol. So yeah same thing occurs with calcium perchlorate and sugar. The sugar acts as the fuel and the perchlorate provides the oxygen. SRBs and fireworks work in this way, creating a solid mixture of fuel and oxidiser. Liquid fuel rockets use liquid oxygen and some liquid fuel (kerosine, hydrogen, methane, etc). The benefit of solid fuel is it's more compact, much higher energy density. The downside is you have no control, it's basically a big firework.
@@DrCranium smart ass
Calcium perchlorate is not the only perchlorate mentioned in the reports. And those reports are limited in their scope. it also should be noted that every pot grower in the world knows that you don't need soil to grow plants.
The folks in Holland use mushrooms to remove salts from reclaimed ocean soil
its the Netherlands:) thx anyhow. always the second :)
@@rene5600 Are you serious? Don't correct non-errors, that's an error itself.
Plant sunflowers and bamboo
@@rene5600 What are you on about?? Holland is fully correct, in fact in most places in the world the word ''holland'' is used more than ''The Netherlands''.
@@thijmendehaas1339 'Holland is a region and former province on the western coast of the Netherlands.' Because people from the Netherlands view it as incorrect 'However, some in the Netherlands, particularly those from regions outside Holland, may find it undesirable or misrepresentative to use the term for the whole country.' This person is from the Netherlands
Wonderful and informative as always!
If anyone who hasn't read or watched The Martian as the opportunity, I highly recommend you do so. While I personally think the book is better, both are very well done! It's also great if you are a sci fi lover 😊
@@JohnVJay
It's science fiction for a reason 😉 still a great story in my opinion. The humor is probably what sold it for me
The books simply quite a bit mroe plot.
After watching the Martian I grew a big respect for potato’s
What 'The Martian' missed and this video also, is that the soil on Earth is an ecosystem mostly of microbes. Plants can take up the most nutrients, when this ecosystem is as rich as possible. To process faeces like in 'The Martian', certain bacteria are needed that free the nitrogen from the larger organic molecules in the faeces. Only then it is available for plants. Plants cannot grow directly on human faeces or urine, they would die!
I recently found out about a fungus that uses a method called radiosythesis to turn gamma radiation into energy in a roughly similar manner to photosynthesis. I'm curious if this method of obtaining energy on Mars is feasible considering how much radiation makes it onto the surface of Mars. It wouldn't be for consumption but for terraforming purposes obviously.
This sounds absolutely fascinating. Of course, we would need to ensure the fungus is contained and doesn't spread like wildfire across the planet. This natural process could open up a very lucrative and environmentally safe option of energy production!
I like your thoughts!
I did not know this was a thing. My initial reaction reading your comment was that you have been reading too much science fiction but having checked, there really are such things as radiotrophic fungi that use radiosynthesis as a means extracting energy from the environment.
That is jolly interesting and really rather surprising. Thank you. I'm going to learn more about this.
@@joshuarosen6242 Yeah I couldn't believe it either until sci show did a segment on it a year or 2 ago.
that's cool. but did anyone use it on earth like in chernobyl?
Excelent documentary keep up the good work, Mars is the dream of this century
Aren't hydroponics better than using martian soil? You just need water (which is necessary anyway), a sponge of some kind to keep the water for some time and nutrients, which do not weight too much.
"Toxic if consumed in large quantities" - sounds like the typical American diet.
Well, that's true for everything. Even water or oxygen.
@@rauminen4167 yeah true but how many Americans actually drink water lmao jk
@@jdextlab As an American, I can confirm that we do not drink water. We survive entirely on crude oil
Ah.. the typical anti American jab.. popular among “big brains”. Such a thinker you are!
@@jeremiahcherry5283 You offended at american cultural stereotype joke? Wow what a patriotic sheep you must be, aren't you "bahh bahh"
This is very interesting. I had no idea these types of soils could be used. Thanks for the video.
Thank you for putting this information in a form that is easy to understand
You sir sounds like your smiling while talking. Good content man
He does, although we haven;t seen his mug in quite a while :)
Fascinating - I love your videos so much. Thankyou!
Thanks, that answers a few questions I had, especially in regards to the toxic levels of perchlorates in the soil. Thanks!!
Well done, a question I have asked myself more than once.
awesome. how hard would it be to ship some dried grass clippings with some food and the first mars habitat arrivals? and they can build and reuse that same soil and keep the clippings coming from the new veggies they grow. while adding in a little more unprocessed regolith along the way to make even nutritious soil.
Use bio-waste leftover from the ship from Earth. There would be a small garden on the colony ship.
I think the grass clipping idea wouldn't be likely to be chosen for the mission. It's very expensive to add more weight into spacecrafts, and they'd need many pounds of grass cutting to be successful with that. The journey to Mars will be over 6 months, over that time, they'll probably have accumulated enough organic matter with their processed feces and food waste that can be the start of the compost on Mars.
ever kg counts, if you can save 20kg on fertilizer and stuff, thats 20kg more tools and 3d printers and medical supplies and habitat building supplies you can bring
Pretty hard
@@spiralect Captain Mcdonald space pooped a farming colony, eeeeay eeeeay-Ohhh
Maybe we could just release ton of cockroaches and let they die and become compost on mars...... Wait, that maybe will not turn out well.....
@zztop3000 go check out the "Terra Formars" anime to see why....😆
@@Shadamachaeon that was my first thought, lol!
hi Z I...
'
who is a word - THEY -...
people or roachs
red planet 2000 imdb
Won't decompose without bacteria tho
Poor spinach, struggling when everyone else succeeded ☹️
We need unmanned missions to Mars to bring back as much Martian soil as possible.
The Mars 2020 rover recently named "Perseverance" will collect and hold samples, for another spacecraft to possibly pick up in the future. The future spacecraft hasn't been confirmed yet, but Perseverance boutta launch soon!
@@spiralect Well, I guess that's good, but it doesn't in itself return any Martian soil. We need studies to see what will grow and ways to most easily remove harmful elements.
We can trade Mars our women. I've heard that Mars needs them. :)
Tasha it would feel so amazing to have soil from another planet in hands
Love your vids. Big up
but you can also grow hydrophonics instead of soil.
true, but you'd have to bring all the nutrients with you
@@Cooliostuff either that or bring fertilizer
Water sound?
grow hemp it can survive in most climates and then we can go from there.
@@Cooliostuff not really.. you can make chemical fertilizers on mars theoretically.. we just don’t know how abundant nitrogen is in martian soil
Perchlorate:
- Toxic (Hypothyroidism)
+ Pulls water out of air
+ Gives out oxygen
+ Rocket Propellant
I was gonna write a tldw but i see youbgot the essentials.
No air on mars
@@joseywales7463 There is air on Mars, it's just mostly made of Carbon Dioxide. Air is a term for a mixture of gasses in an atmosphere. It is though preferable that the Martian atmosphere consists of CO2 and not Methane (CH4) as we can then use electrolysis on the Martian air to split the CO2 into C and O2, with the C being used with plants and the O2 becoming breathable oxygen. If we then go on to stabilize the Martian climate and get a thicker atmosphere, we can then start to replace the CO2 with Oxygen (O2) and Nitrogen (N). Our own atmosphere is mostly made up of Nitrogen too, so simulating our own conditions on Mars would make it easier for us to create a colony with a breathable atmosphere and removing the need for living in modules
@@Arterexius very little. Atmospheric pressure is very little. Lungs wouldn't be working.
There was a small island off the coast of Ireland. It didn't have any soil, just rocks. The people who colonized the island took sand and seaweed, mixed them together and covered the island with about a foot of this sand and seaweed mixture. It worked great. They were able to plant crops. The only problem is, it would be expensive to send tons of seaweed, grass, or whatever to Mars to mix with the soil. It would be necessary though. They should take insects and bacteria from the soil in Antarctica and ship them to Mars first. Possibly even Lichens. Different organisms to get things started.
Awesome post Astrum! I love the way you SCIENCE THE S#*T out of this!
I love your videos!! Keep them up!!
Golden Globes: "Ahh The Martian. Such a great comedy."
You would think with the car-sized experiments done on Mars a simple little greenhouse would be a priority experiment.
No Spinach? [Popeye Intensifies]
You copied my thoughts.
@Kevin McDougall Really?Wow that changes popeye entirely
Fungi can remove not just salts but pathogens as well from our feces and soil, they’re great decomposers, and they also connect plants to each other so the plants can share/transmit nutrients to one another through the medium of fungi.
1:28 Popeye will have a tough time
Short and sweet. Thank you!
Growing plants on Mars will be EXTREMELY hard, the simulations are always over optimistic, and never fully model the situation i.e. radiation, 1/100th atmosphere, 1/5th gravity. Even the toxicity of perchlorates are dealt with by just dumping organic matter and rinsing with water ,which both will be on short invaluable supply. Don't get me wrong, I want this to happen, its vital - but the current administration doesn't seem committed with no sense of urgency. All our eggs are in the SpaceX basket right now, once they prove landings on the moon and get ships to Mars, then a fire will be lit under the scientific and engineering community.
Very interesting stuff. Thanks Astrum
The use of the word fluff pleased me greatly
You must dream of being a fluffer then :) :)
I like that you have a fortnightly poll 05:19. Incidentally, according to the book "Good Omens", any music cassette, left in a car for a duration of one of your poll cycles, automatically becomes a Freddy Mercury album.
Love the footage from "The Martian" . One of my favorite SCI-FI Movies . . .
349 'Dislikes' people who didn't study science at school and didn't understand this video.
'Only Spinach struggling to perform'...everyone (apart from Popeye) hates spinach anyway, so no tears shed over that result :-)
I hope someone from Earth gets to eat a 'Mars Bar' on Mars before I shuffle off this mortal coil :-)
Love your channel! This is awesome
The narrator has a very calming voice. It goes with the backing music so well.
Given that perchlorates are water-soluble, they would seem to be the least of our problems.
infact they would be rather useful, wash them out (you would have to anyway as they are toxic to plants) and collect them as a salt, use them to help generate oxygen, use the calcium chloride that is formed from the decomposition of perchlorate to add calcium into the soil.
Perchlorates also are limited to a couple of cm's of the surface.
But the press love a negative, and have trained much of their audience to seek it also.
The atmosphere of mars is 95% co2 which is what plants breathe. So you wouldn't necessarily have to put them inside but the temperature is what would be the problem.
Apart from Mars soil, hydroponics is an obvious way to grow crops anywhere. Plus hydroponics saves a lot of water.
No plants would survive on Mars for at least two reasons... first there's virtually no atmosphere and second most importantly the weak magnetic field of the planet causes the sun to cause extreme radiation damage to anything organic. The planet Mars had rivers and likely other life a long long time ago, but those two reasons is why today we see only dirt and rock.
@@NTJedi That's like saying no humans would survive flying at 30000ft, because there is almost no air up there.
True.
But .... Airplanes?
You don't think explorers on Mars intend to live naked on the surface, do you?
@@marvinkitfox3386 My comment was for outdoors... not the easily controlled greenhouse of something indoors.
@@NTJedi Ever heard of protective cultivation? It's done on even Earth in harsh climates. Did you just comment for the sake of trolling lol?
@@ThinkSleepLeave Protective cultivation is indoors... my comment was about outdoors. Just because someone makes a comment does not make them an instant troll. Obviously you're emotionally damaged from many online trolls and incapable of a civilized discussion without jumping into calling someone a troll.
These are the kind of topics I love!
Kwin-oh-ah? It's quinoa darling, KEENWAAAAAAAA! 🤣
I get told off for pronouncing it either way, I knew as soon as I saw that word in the list that I was in trouble in the TH-cam comment section 😅
Right? He read the list and I just got stuck thinking "what the hell is kwin-no-ah?" Haha.
@@astrumspace And I wouldn't have understand it then. You pronounced it right for me :)
This is the way it is called in the countries with German language. And as far as I know isn't that plant 'British born'. So...
Plant a dandelion on Mars and in 3 weeks the entire planet will be covered.
Love you Alex.
Autonomous construction systems are likely to be sent to Mars before any lengthy crewed missions. Aside from building workshops and habitats, etc, they could also set up automated plant nurseries. The soil composition could be remotely monitored and adjusted to produce fertile soil for plants. The produce could be harvested, analysed, and frozen to await the arrival of the first astronaus.
Well, what are we waiting for? Lets give it a shot
We're waiting for overlord Elon
waiting for SN11 to land without anyone telling it to do a flip after
I study at Wageningen University and im a huge fan of scifi!
Cool to see such spacy studies being done so close to me
It’s time to build up a perchlorate tolerance, so, getcha ass to Mahhs!
For me biggest problem would be temperatures on mars... no plant would grow when it's up to +27C during day on equator and same place at night is -90C. So plants should be only in heated spaces like glasshouses... this would make in my opinion whole process extreme expensive... without releasing into mars atmosphere a lot of gases to terraform this planet it's like trying to life autonomously on north or south pole on earth whole year without supply.
First company prove this is possible can try same thing on mars...
The big problem is how you protect both people and vegetables from cosmic rays. And that is also a problem already during the travel there.
This is my thought too, mars doesnt have the magnetic field strength required to support life as we know it, it would need to be underground or insude shielded habitats.
Ákos Tárkányi you build habitats out of plastic or build underground or find underground cave-like systems on Mars. It’s difficult but not impossible.
@@NaumRusomarov Yeah, very difficult. And the travel there itself even more.
@@tylersoto7465 "Mars has deposits of magnetite especially in the mid southern parts creating magnetic fieds 15-25 times stronger than earths magnetic field." Can you give a scientific reference (of literature) to this claim?
Awesome mate! The martian is my favorite movie. Glad it can likely be done!
Having scurvy in space can be bad for you.
Humans used to have the ability create vitamin c, I'm sure we could get that back with Gene editing
@@imhonestcompassionateandcr7945 You'd still need the necessary precursor metabolites to synthesize it
Having scurvy anywhere can be bad for you
PollieBear, Whattah you, a pirate or someth'n?
@jadidweto so are other grasses, horse tail and grains.
Please make a video on how we can get all material needed for a initial colinization into space and then to mars. That smal dome/tube garden would require material to be built.
only after a video showing it can be done on earth ..and we have failed so far so bit stupid going to mars
if its perchlorate, than there's your oxygen.
They also know there are varying percentages of water ice mixed in with the regolith even in some places at low latitudes. Now you have water, oxygen and then hydrogen to mix with the CO2 in the atmosphere to make methane rocket fuel.
We will not know until we try. Maybe we should send a mini greenhouse probe to Mars.
Once again very informative... hat's off to Astrum 👌❤
Whether they are using moon soil or mars soil I'm presuming all these growing tests are done here on Earth which realistically is not the same as actually growing on the environment of the planets.
Eh, he did say that those were simulations done here on Earth, and that the only way to actually prove if it works and the results are safe to it is to experiment directly on Mars.
Sigh. Obviously, any growing of crops would take place underneath a pressure dome on either the Moon or Mars.
@@BooksandCaffeine Mars greater distance from the Sun means that the maximum intensity (brightness) of sunlight on Mars is much less (about 44%) than that on Earth. Which opens up more questions, like is there enough light to grow plants on Mars?
@@YouPlantTube You're forgetting the attenuation affects of the Earth's armosphere. Nothing like the full illumination seen above the atmosphere is seen on the ground on Earth, while it would be on Mars at times when dust storms weren't blowing.
This going to reduce the ratio between the level seen on Earth and that seen on Mars.
Also, one can use mirrors to concentrate sunliight. This is simple, passive technology, cheap to build and something that would not break down.
don't worry, spinach, it happens to all of us at some point
🙊
I'm pretty sure you could just wash the perchlorates out of the martian soil, since calcium perchlorate is soluble in water
As are 90% of the nutrients you want to keep...
Quickly getting fixed Nitrogen into the Martian soil is probably the main issue for growing plants.
Joker Ace There are bacteria that can make atmospheric nitrogen readily available to the plants. A product name Azos has them.
@@mitchellmaytorena1137 Mars atmosphere (100 times thinner than Earth's as it is) has only 2.7% nitrogen, so i doubt any bacteria could extract an amount that tiny.
@@gvasilyev84 Other sources would have to be found, or it would be brought from Earth. I could come with an earlier supply mission at slower speed. Later, nitrogen could come from the atmosphere of Venus or from ammonia shipped from Titan.
We need to bring back a few bucketfulls of martian soil and experiment with growing plants in it.
We visited Grassington cave in Yorkshire UK deep down in the cave I noticed plant growth at the base of the light bulb fittings. Life seems to find a way. Thank you for the information
(2:49) Using feces as fertilizer must be done with measurement, not just for the presence of harmful bacterial, but it can also increase the concentration of heavy metals and other toxins in the soil. As previously mentioned, some elements are essential, but only in small amounts, and are toxic in larger doses.
The Universe the playground of the imagination. Trekkies love this kind of thing.
I can't wait for videos of grass growing naturally in 50 years.
Any chance on offering your wonderful content in 4K resolution? Love the channel!
Usually I do, depends on if the source images are high enough resolution or not 😊
At least you wouldn’t have to worry about your host serving you spinach.
Life finds a way.
edit: speaking of radiation, isn't Martian soil slightly radioactive as well? It's had virtually no atmosphere for millennia to protect it from UV radiation, solar wind and cosmic rays.
ColecoKid ask optimus prime about mars next time he visit us🌎.
I recall a long-ago science fiction tale about a spaceship crew marooned on a Mars-hostile-to-Terran-life planet. As the crew members died, their bodies were buried in the soil of the planet. Eventually, the last crew member succumbed to the hostile conditions and headed off to "Boot Hill" to "be with his shipmates." Quite to his surprise, he found Terrestrial plants growing among the graves; the planet merely needed some "fertilizer" to begin the "Terraforming" of the planet. (Wishful thinking for Mars, but one never knows how far the likes of Weyland-Yutani will proceed with their atmosphere processors in a "shake and bake" colony.)
Another fascinating film. Thanks, Alex.
0:49 the guy who came up with this map is my lecturer - he's so cool
I think the lack of an atmosphere and water will prove more challenging.
Humans can't breathe the atmosphere yes but I assume we would create a pressurized habitat with oxygen. As for water not sure
I read somewhere that the poles have a magnetosphere so living there might be an option. Also not sure exactly what oxygen toxicity is but i assume venting it into the atmposhere could work. (Unless the pressure difference makes it impossible)
Fortunately it has both
No thank if I’m still alive when man goes to Mars I’m staying put.
If they (NASA, SpaceX, Weyland-Yutani etc.) start growing brussel sprouts on Mars count me out.
I'll take your spot!
Weyland-Yutani: Building Better Worlds.
Or we could grow fungi in aerogel blocks. Aerogel has a low pressure compared to atmosphere so it pulls in moisture and atmospheric gas. Just inject fungi into the aerogel.
How do you put the perchlorate eating bacteria on mars?
Make a Genesis bomb.
The same way you put crops to grow on mars. You bring it with your greenhouse equipment.
The bacteria probably won’t survive outside, so the soil will have to be treated in the greenhouse.
Create an orbiting station that incubates microbes and periodically seeds Mars with them.
The main cause of warps in all of reality it’s a joke bud even my autistic ass saw that
Im curious about the possibilities of using fungi and mushrooms. Its a great source of nutrition and easy to grow.
The way he pronounced Quinoa
😂
Eventually Humans and A.I will have the capability constructing massive Marscrapers(underground skyscraper) and or Domes.
1:10 Did you really just say "Kwinoah"? 😂
It's pronounced "Joaquin" 😅
I love it hahha
need to send a team of ten,with drilling and digging shovels, nice cameras,build safe habitat,plant seeds,see what resources are there maybe deep down
Man, hope you're well aware of the CHANDRAYAAN-II by ISRO. Would love to watch a vid on the mission once it sends some useful data and information. Plz do it.
A humble request from an aspiring Indian aeronautical engineer.
it failed? didn't it?
Thank you again.
After about a week, the joy of leaving earth might make anyone who goes to Mars regret that they believed in the fantasy of space travel. Its going to be one of the most horrible expieriences humans have ever attempted to endure. And might very well end in death for those that try it.
The whole subject is pure fantasy. Nobody will be going there. It’s a ridiculous idea, nothing more.
DeusWrath Eternus no it’s hopeless. A pointless exercise. A fools errand. A pipe dream. A technological (and intellectual) dead end. And I will have no words to eat as if civilization somehow survived another 100 years it would still be a complete waste of effort, doomed to failure, and nobody will even attempt it. You might as well give up on this idea.
DeusWrath Eternus dreaming is useless
Im afraid i have to side with the nay-sayers. The complexity of conforming human beings to life in a completely hostile environment is overwhelming complicated. There hasn't even been a human birth in space yet. Nobody knows what will happen. And thats just a huge small problem. There are hundreds of others.
Some of us love the hard stuff
In The Martian, the book, it says he sprinkled earth dirt samples on the Martian soil so the bacteria from earth would spread through the Martian soil
Thank you for this very informative video!😊🌐🌐😊
Processing soil into organic material would be a priority project. Combination of rinsing soil and bacterial perchlorate run a cycle. And being a batch of probiotic soil bacteria and fungi. after 3 or 4 cycles of using material for growth medium. Should be perfect fine. 😎
Why not send a fold-out Glass house to Mars and try it out?
Because the billions and billions of dollars would be better spent on a billion other projects
@@slaphappyduplenty2436 It doesn't have to be a big glass house, just maybe 1 cubic meter in volume and self-sufficient
@@victorbruant389there has not ever been a self sufficient biosphere ON EARTH ...so you can see the doubt for your mars idea ?
*+Victor Bruant*
Interesting idea but let's not forget the pollination issue. If we're unable to use insect pollinators such as bees, then we rely on wind pollinators and all that implies. In other words, a glass house is not going to allow wind pollination. I'm not suggesting these are insurmountable challenges, so much as we've got a lot of issues to overcome. And the thing is, we'll keep trying to do it. My fantasy is that if we ditch the things that divide us, we could find that our desire/need to reach Mars could be what unites us. Hey, a person can hope, can't they?
@@SueMead We are nearing the third decade of the 21st century, who knows what will be possible :-)
Kmno4 _ O2, plus kmno2 solved mystery in simple preparation of oxygen
The answer is yes but with fertilizer. Saved you 6 minutes.
Bruh moment
I didn't need 6 minutes to be saved. Astrum's videos are always a joy to watch :)
reductio ad absurdum
Thanks
I think we should look into plants that can survive in arctic volcanic environments. They seem the most likely to be able to survive on Mars. They are used to low sunlight, cold temperatures, low nutrient soil and few insects to help pollinate. We could experiment and research with plants in as close as possible re-creation environment of Mars and then evenutally send a probe to Mars with the best plant candidates and have a rover do some gardening on Mars. Imagine the implications if the plants actually managed to take root and grow. Even if they eventually die it means life on Mars is possible. God I wish I could work for NASA and do research like this.
Wouldn't they just use hydro or aquaponics instead?
In the short term yes. But by figuring out the soil biology, they can spur the planet to begin making its own ecology and eventually its own atmosphere! Salt nutrients will build up over time and eventually make the ground un-farmable there!
One thing to note, the NASA image that attempts to show that martian soil has the required minerals, but that same image notes that although they have been detected, they haven't all been detected in one place and in the required quantities, so you would need to source and process them from where they are available; just like we do on Earth when we need to fortify soul.