Popoff and Pardo are at it again cogitating and discussing the state of hard rock/heavy metal at the end of the 70s. Another fine episode with Martin and Pete and the most prominent action to me affecting at least the US general public's mood for music during those times was the start-up of MTV which is seemed everybody watched and the shifting of rap music and its beats/rhythms from the more club/underground to a wider audience. Perhaps this is a bit later than the period P&P are discussing but those events certainly seemed to have an impact in north central Florida at the time. Thanks for the show, gents. There ya go!
I remember 1980 was a banner year for my musical journey, turning from rock to heavy when releases like Heaven and hell from Dio fronted Black Sabbath and Iron maiden debut then later I added Judas Priest, British steel....after being hit with a barrage of 80 synth music, my faith in rock music was restored ...
Foghat is a hard rockin' blues-based that embraced some pop and new wave elements. Some people don't like this era, but it's where I came in as ten-year-old kid, and I loved it.
High school class of 79 here. Saw the infamous Sabbath/VH tour, Bon Scott's last MSG show opening for Nugent, Angel open for Rush, etc. However I also saw Talking Heads, the Tubes, Blondie, the Ramones, etc. as well as both Tormato tours, Queen, Styx...... Great content, thanks!
This topic reminded of a talk a had years ago. It's weird how metal/hard rock fans from the 80's felt let down when grunge, alternative took over by 92-95. They still complain about that. But those very same fans did the same 10 years before when they were young in 82-85: they dished out prog rock, punk, new wave and other 70's stuff in favor of heavy metal. Some 70's bands (Judas, Thin Lizzy, Budgie, even Kiss) had to dumb down their sound by 81 onwards in order to be heard by metal fans.
As a 18 year old metal head in 1979, I was super stoked with amazing live albums by UFO, Queen and Priest. And killer studio albums by Riot, Blackfoot, Scorpions, Motörhead (2 albums), Samson, Ac/dc ( at their peak). Not to forget the spark brought by Van Halen. 1978 was even a better year with tons of great studio and live albums. Granted, the big hard rock bands of the seventies were fading, but there were loads of fresh hungry bands being formed from the ashes. And then in 1980 we had the explosion of NWOBHM. Honestly, I don’t think Ronnie had anything to do with this. Metal came back with a vengeance and with a big fat middle finger to New Wave pop.
AC/DC - Powerage and Highway to Hell Angel Witch April Wine - Harder...Faster Def Leppard - On Through the Night Gillan - Mr. Universe Iron Maiden Judas Priest - Hell Bent for Leather and British Steel Motorhead - Overkill and Bomber Rose Tattoo Rush - Hemispheres and Permanent Waves Scorpions - Lovedrive and Animal Magnetism Thin Lizzy - Black Rose: A Rock Legend Triumph - Just a Game UFO - Obsession Van Halen II & Women and Children First Whitesnake - Lovehunter This is a very pared down list, otherwise I could've gone on forever. And I left off some classic live albums too.
Generally, the 1980s was my least favourite era of all the bands I loved.During this period, I started getting all the back catalogues of all the bands I loved, used of course from Star Records at $1 a pop, which I still own to this day. (thanks Bob Bryden from Christmas band who was the store manager at the time in Hamilton Ontario. As their wasn't a lot happening on the heavy side to which Bob even commented to me that there wasn't much to do but buy the back catalogues of the heavy bands. Of course their were exceptions. Rush,Triumph,April Wine, Pat Travers to name a few. Great episode Martin and Pete.
I think SEE is an excellent live album. I own the original SEE single disc and then bought the later remastered and expanded version of SEE with more songs and a DVD concert disc from a different performance. Actually all BOC live LPs and DVD are excellent, which is not surprising given how strong BOC as a live concert act.
My theory is these two years there was a noticeable lull in the hard rock world. As a junior/senior in high school hard rocker, it was harder to find out where the hard rock was coming from. This is, imho, when new wave and lighter fare hit hard and turned the masses forever away from hard rock/metal because it took work to find it. Im STILL amazed with todays streaming that heavy music hasnt made a big comeback but the masses have given up on the fun of music discovery. They are perfectly happy getting “classic rock” and whoever won the last Americas Got Talent tv show.
As long as Priest released Stained Class and Killing Machine in 78 and Scorps release Lovedrive in 79 and motorhead did Overkill and Bomber it wasn't dead, by no means. And throw Strangers in the night , live and dangerous. I was 15 in 78 and those were my heyday of hard rock/heavy metal
For arguing against rock having a commercial nosedive at this period, it should be noted that 78-79 was when Bat Out Of Hell was shifting serious units worldwide.
Interesting show even though I don't consider myself a fan of heavy metal. However I do like some hard rock. I'm sure the line is very blurred, but what is the difference between hard rock and heavy metal? Is it speed? Is it vocal delivery style? Did later developments such as thrash metal mean that some 1970s bands, categorised as heavy metal at the time, were later categorised as hard rock? I love Led Zeppelin and Rush but don't consider any of their output to be heavy metal. However, they are both bands I worked backwards to from the 1980s and beyond. I don't even consider Dio era Rainbow to be heavy metal, although "Light In The Black" arguably gets close. Progressive hard rock would seem a more apt genre in my opinion.
The emergence of extreme metal means that some categorisations have gradually shifted over the decades. Bands we called heavy metal at the time are now called hard rock. I grew up in the Eighties and I distinctly remember the likes of AC/DC, Van Halen, Blue Oyster Cult and even Bon Jovi (!) being routinely described in the media as 'heavy metal'. I think you are right and the rise of thrash metal, then death metal and black metal, has retrospectively made these bands seem very tame indeed. However the old categorisation still lingers when people talk about 'glam metal' for example. So in theory 'glam metal' Poison are heavier than 'hard rock' Rainbow, except not.
@@jimmycampbell78 Bon Jovi were heavy metal in the 80's, listen to their first two albums, it's pure heavy metal (or glam metal, or hair metal whatever term you like), it's definitely heavier than BOC, AC DC, VH and many other hard rock bands of that time.
@@tjsststsjsjyksjgksjysjs7633 Sure that was the point I was making but I stress those other bands like AC/DC were also called heavy metal at the time. Bon Jovi are a band right on that line of hard rock or metal, particularly on those first two albums you mention. Def Leppard are another example. But I don't think people would drop them in a conversation as 'metal' now, metalhead purists certainly wouldn't. Contemporary bands to them such as Slayer, Mercyful Fate and Judas Priest are still acceptable.
Everything went more commercial sounding in the late 70's/early 80's if they were signed to a major label. It happened to Hard Rock, Metal, Punk, Prog etc. This is one of the main reasons independent labels starting popping up at this time. The major labels decided the time of experimentation and artistry for the sake of artistry was over and they wanted more money. It's really no different than the film industry at that time, remember this same period was the beginning of the 'blockbuster'. All of this has just gotten worse over decades which is why you hear and see such formulaic music and movies everywhere now in the mainstream.
Maybe video by these up and coming bands got people watching MTV and kind of had an abandoning effect of the older sect as they took longer to jump on the video format in an opinion.
I know I was quite young but ‘78 and ‘79 were exciting in the UK. Motörhead released a seminal album. Priest released metal albums. Whitesnake, AC/DC and Thin Lizzy were flying the hard rock flag. Whatever you want is heavier and a return to form for Status Quo. Yes not as heavy as the early albums. But Purple had got lighter and less rock orientated albums. Not to mention the birth of the new wave of Heavy Metal. Budgie were still heavy. Girl school were making their first releases. Tigers of pang tang were releasing their first single in 1979. A year of transition maybe but it didn’t go away just started to gestate into something new.
Maiden was playing shows and releasing demos before 1980, and The Misfits Static age was recorded in 1978 but not released until later. This is a dumb topic because so much was either happening (Priest, Scorpions) or brewing underground and about to be released that it makes no sense that everything went soft and then heavy because of Ronnie.
Great show guys! Love the concept and topic and great points from both Pete and Martin! Wish Ronnie would come back would love to see him im too young sadly to ever have had the opportunity. Always have the music thats the important thing! Have a rockin weekend all!
Now that i watched the video...I can't quite remember if anyone brought up Mr. Universe from 1979. I don't think I recall seeing it. That's pretty rocking. And I just so happened to pause it to watch this video.
Definitely with Pete on this one, at least from a UK perspective. Gillan, Whitesnake and Motorhead were hugely important transitional bands that helped establish the commercial potential of the NWOBHM. Judas Priest was pretty much defining the HM genre at this time. AC/DC, Thin Lizzy, UFO and Rush were all ascending towards their greatest poularity, and the first three at least sat very easily alongside punk and new wave. Most of us were not so parochial as to limit ourselves to one type of music. To be honest, Ronnie and Sabbath were a bit of a side show, greeted with a certain amount of skepticism. They were not the exciting cutting edge any more, so Ronnie didn't so much hide HM as HM left him in a corner. It wasn't until he put together his own band, and Geezer and Tony lost a lot of credibility with the stories coming out about Live Evil, that Ronnie really established his presence at the head of the genre.
I don't know how succesful exactly were Scorpions in the mid to late 1970s, but they already had a heavy metal sound in several tracks that could have possibly influence several nwobhm bands
@@METALSCAVENGER78 The profile of Scorpions in the UK increased when Michael Schenker rejoined the band for Lovedrive, because he brought a lot if UFO fans to the band, so I think it was Michael that was the important ingredient in the mix.
Need to seperate what was happening in the U.S and Canada, with what was happening in the UK in 78/79. As a 15/year old we were seeing UK based bands UFO , Priest, Gillan, Motorhead, Whitesnake, AC/DC also pretty much UK based , plus Scorpions tour ,we were reading a hearing of this underground movement of Saxon, Rainbow,Samson!, Angelwitch, Maiden. So we saw 79/80 as the start of a boom in heavy bands not as a down time for heavy music and a wave that probably took a year or so to hit across the Atlantic.
Interesting discussion. I think it is merely coincidental that music was in a transitional period during RJDs downtime between Rainbow and Sabbath. Hard rock and HM didn't disappear, as was shown by the numerous examples given, but it did change to a then more modern style. I would also add to the hard rock list April Wine First Glance and Harder Faster, REO Nine Lives (their heaviest album 1979), Pat Travers Heat in The Street, Foreigner Head Games, Axe debut album (1979), Axis It's A Circus World. Would like to see an album ranking of Axe, a very overlooked band. Thanks.
Which BÖC Live Album are you talking about? "Some Enchanted Evening" came out around that time, but I always thought that this was kinda beloved. The next one I can think of was a couple of years later, in 1982, which is "Extraterrestrial Live" (my personal favorite Live Album of theirs).
Martin! Blue Oyster Cult’s crappy live album?! “That no one particularly likes”?! Some Enchanted Evening is their biggest selling album (platinum plus) and is beloved. Legendary versions of Astronomy and ETI (both with extended solo sections); the definitive version of RU Ready 2 Rock (with the great key section); and what is probably their best of the covers they’ve done, Kick Out The Jams; and Godzilla is also fierce. Plus, if you want a full show, there is the expanded reissue as well as Some Enchanted Other Evening. Objectively speaking, a big album for them. Subjectively speaking for me, their best live album as compared to the somewhat bloated On Your Feet or too slick ETL, (on which Albert Bouchard is mostly absent).
Have to agree with Martin on this one. SEE seemed like a single disc throwaway released too soon after On Your Knees. I bought it new and played it maybe 5-6 times since then. I mean,two covers on a single album?
@@ledzeplover58 I like OYFOOYK a whole lot more. But ETI, RU Ready and Astronomy are almost definitive versions for me personally. I do think he says things sometimes just to wind up folk.
2 covers yes, but On Your Feet also had 2 covers, and I’ll take their bass poppin version of We Gotta Get Out Of This Place (released as a single BTW) over the superfluous I Ain’t Got You. Also, Eric’s vocals are tremendous on this album. And we are introduced to the patented outro of Reaper (which they took from Gil Blanco County from their Stalk Forest days).
Some of Martin's comments suggest an interesting topic... band managers. Idk what direction to take that conversation in... who had the biggest impact on a bands success? Who ruined a band? Did some managers have several big bands at the same time, and did that impact the quality of the management?
IMO Dio had his own brand of HR&HM..one of those artists that is instantly recognizable. I think it would have been interesting to see Dio's direction if he never hooked up with Ritchie.....
Pere I love ya I really do. A lot of the bands you mentioned were laughable. Nothing heavy at all in Journey or Pat Travers. Styx, really . There are bands that actually are heavy that you left out like Accept.
The title clearly states hard rock & metal...plenty of hard rock on those albums by Journey, PT, and Styx. OK, so I left off Accept, but the point was not to name every single heavy or hard-rocking band from 1979. The point was that lots of bands were still releasing albums in this style.
@seaoftranquilityprog Well than we just have a difference of opinion of what hard rock is. I don't consider any of those bands even on a large curve remotely hard rock. But that's why there is debate. What fun would it be if we all thought the same.
I would say you both are right, and wrong....as some lights faded, it allowed others to begin to really shine with a new wave of heaviness. My favorite example of this was the Black Sabbath transition. This was most evident during the Never Say Die tour, where Sabs were slowing down due to drugs and infighting, putting out a weak album and slogging it out again on tour. Tired, frustrated and falling apart creatively, as well as physically, they bring Van Halen out on tour with them. Van Halen is young, fresh and ready to take on the world, and each night, they destroy their headlining heroes. Out paced, out performing on waves of energy that clobbers the Sabbath machine, Sabbath break up and Van Halen rises. Who does Ozzy finally seek out to bring him to a level of which he was witness to, just before the fall? An Eddie-like guitar virtuoso, Randy Rhoads, who will entice that new generation of guitar wizardry appreciation, and catapult Ozzy into that Van Halen arena again. Ronnie, in turn, returns to Sabbath now, to fuse both older and newer fans, into a rebirth of the might of Sabbath. They are both pulled from the ashes, and armed with multiple generations of fans, with Ronnie in the center of it. Honorable mention to all the NWOBHM bands who saw the opening made by these dinosaurs stumble, and broke out such monsters at that same time (1978/79) with Maiden, Saxon, Motorhead, etc...p.s. love the show, keep the conversation going!!!
In regards to your Friday at the Funhouse show12/19/24, I noticed there are somewhat of a regional opinion on choice of bands Martin the Canadian picked all these bands that I’ve never listened to or heard of .Bands like Coney Hatch, or April Wine. Peter seem to pick more of the bands from the US playlist, some of the classic rockers. I’ve noticed that a lot of people from Midwest somewhat regional taste Midwest bands like REO or Cheap Trick . People from East Coast, and West Coast have a tendency to have a little more hard edge to their musical taste. definitely big difference between the US and Canada as far as bands that were popular back in the 70s and 80s. that might be an interesting topic to do a show on.
The live albums from UFO, Judas Priest, & Thin Lizzy can't be discounted. Yes, there are the "greatest hits" being played but the live tracks are definitely heavier than any of the studio versions.
and if Pete reads these comments, I have a show idea.....take the bands discussed on SoT and their most popular songs....the ones that you hear on the radio, the ones they play as encores in concert. Now divide them into 3 categories....#1: The ones you have loved from the beginning and still love no matter how overplayed. You turn it up if it comes on the radio and sing along in concert #2: Songs you used to love, but have largely been ruined by oversaturation. You change the radio station and no longer want them in the setlist #3: Songs that are popular that you always hated...because they were just too much of a sellout for airplay...true fans would never put these songs among the artist's best, but casual fans demand them. My examples: Category #1: Carry On Wayward Son, 25 or 6 to 4, Still of the Night, Peace of Mind, Don't Tell Me You Love Me, War Pigs, Who Are You, early Van Halen, etc Category #2: (classics ruined by classic rock radio)....Limelight, Spirit of Radio, More Than A Feeling, Smoke on the Water, Paranoid/Iron Man, Don't Fear the Reaper, Bohemian Rhapsody, Rock You Like A Hurricane, Won't Get Fooled Again, Baba O'Reilly, all Foreigner, Heart, Journey, AC/DC, Judas Priest, Styx songs played on the radio. Category #3: Jump, Start Me Up, Rainbow In The Dark, Enter Sandman, You've Got Another Thing Coming, Here I Go Again, Hit Me With Your Best Shot, Owner of a Lonely Heart, Stone Cold, Hysteria era Def Leppard, etc.
Deep Purple and Ozzy fronted Black Sabbath were the first to show us how it was done. Dio fronted Rainbow 1975-1978 perfected it. The NWOBHM bands then develop it, Ronnie joins Black Sabbath and perfects the NWOBHM sound. Ronnie James Dio perfected things. In the mid 90’s he tried to perfect industrial music too….but it was a swing and a miss on that occasion. But hey, not every rocket hits the moon.
You could argue that the old guard where handing over the heavy metal baton to the new bands emerging as the eighties dawned, and in just a few short years it became even heavier with the emergence of thrash.
Maybe video by these up and coming bands got people watching MTV and kind of had an abandoning effect of the older sect as they took longer to jump on the video format in an opinion. I wonder why Legs Diamond gets pretty much ignored during these times ? They had some good output then. Thin Lizzy was still kickin ass too but America had lost interest for some reason. Off topic a bit, you ever think about doing an episode on Swan Song Records output ? Maggie Bell, Bad Company, Detective,Dave Edmunds, The Pretty Things, Zep of course and so on......
This is actually a moot point in that the case is made for both sides depending on which band is picked.The same point could be made for the beginning of the decade as to which bands got heavier by say,'73, as opposed to which got lighter and more commercial.
I have a question was Martin at the Skinny Puppy show where Ain't Dead Yet was filmed I swear I saw a young Martin in the audience. It was filmed in Toronto. This dude in the audience just looking all intense more like he's a critic. I also asked myself while watching who is that hot guy?
Yep sitting around with my buds listening to Long Live Rock and Roll - 18 years old and worried that disco was going take over and other crappola . Thanks for taking me back….
Motörhead saved ‘78-80 for punk, hard rock, and heavy metal. Def Lep also? Ramones, Kiss, ZZ Top, Rolling Stones all get poppier. Edit: Van Halen, Ted Nugent, and Maiden also helped with heaviness in this time frame…but if you sing Icecream man on an album, you get minus fifteen points on the heavy scale.
Rocking all over the world was the first ”bad” Status Quo album, in my opinion also not a Quo boogie album, not when you compare it to all albums from Ma Kelly to Blue for you, some years later they released Just Supposin & Never too Late, there were the boogie back
One that Martin forgot to mention: Alice Cooper's From The Inside (1978) is his least rocking album, full of lush piano arrangements and shmaltzy ballads performed by Elton John's backing band. I actually like the album for what it is, but it really doesn't rock.
Depends on what you consider Metal. I don't consider the 80's hair bands to be Metal, the record industry and mainstream did though. Metal never died out, it thrived in the underground like it always has and continues to do.
"People don't like particuylary Some Enchanted evenings"? On what planet MArtin? It is their best selling album, double platinum following some research...
Don't care. It's got seven songs and two of them are covers. One is a crap song and even "Kick Out the jams" showed itself as more boring than any BOC original.
Pull up some early 70s footage of Lucifer's friend with John Lawton on vocal . Then pull up some early scorpions footage from around lonesome crow . Put those two singers together and you practically have Ronnie James Dio . 🙋
Basically go through the Sweet Evil album - it's sorta as heavy as an Aerosmith album, and sounds a helluva lot like one. But that's the only album, i.e. for heaviness in any concentration.
Heavy metal, punka nd new wave are all cool with me. i don't see why there can't be room for all of it. Why can't artists just be themselves? Of course if one naturally wants to change styles, let 'em, but why this push to sound like one particular thing that's popular. That's always been weird to me. We like artists and bands for what they are, not because they sound like something else. This isn't so much a comment on the episode or the statements made there, just a general observation. I mean really, who gives a crap what's considered "cool"? I agree with Pete that hemispheres sounds like Rush's heaviest album. The opening of the Hemispheres suite alone is probably heavier than anything else in their discography. But I also wasn't around at the time, and don't really know what people generally thought of these albums. I'm discovering and loving them after the fact, which probably makes a difference in how I feel about things.
AC/DC, Van Halen, and Judas Priest put out killer records in 78-79!
Dio helped hard rock and metal get more of a platform through great singing and high quality music. He was more of an inspiration than a direction.
Popoff and Pardo are at it again cogitating and discussing the state of hard rock/heavy metal at the end of the 70s. Another fine episode with Martin and Pete and the most prominent action to me affecting at least the US general public's mood for music during those times was the start-up of MTV which is seemed everybody watched and the shifting of rap music and its beats/rhythms from the more club/underground to a wider audience. Perhaps this is a bit later than the period P&P are discussing but those events certainly seemed to have an impact in north central Florida at the time. Thanks for the show, gents. There ya go!
I remember 1980 was a banner year for my musical journey, turning from rock to heavy when releases like Heaven and hell from Dio fronted Black Sabbath and Iron maiden debut then later I added Judas Priest, British steel....after being hit with a barrage of 80 synth music, my faith in rock music was restored ...
Great story
Foghat is a hard rockin' blues-based that embraced some pop and new wave elements. Some people don't like this era, but it's where I came in as ten-year-old kid, and I loved it.
Girls to chat and boys to bounce was good, loved Wide Boy
High school class of 79 here. Saw the infamous Sabbath/VH tour, Bon Scott's last MSG show opening for Nugent, Angel open for Rush, etc. However I also saw Talking Heads, the Tubes, Blondie, the Ramones, etc. as well as both Tormato tours, Queen, Styx...... Great content, thanks!
I don't know if I agree with Pete that Hemispheres by Rush is their heaviest album, I think Caress of Steel might have something to say about that.
The Necromancer is spectacular.
During 1978-9 in Australia the popular heavy band was not ACDC it was the Angels with the "Face to Face" and "No Exit" albums.
Yes! Sweet! Still listen to those!
This topic reminded of a talk a had years ago. It's weird how metal/hard rock fans from the 80's felt let down when grunge, alternative took over by 92-95. They still complain about that. But those very same fans did the same 10 years before when they were young in 82-85: they dished out prog rock, punk, new wave and other 70's stuff in favor of heavy metal. Some 70's bands (Judas, Thin Lizzy, Budgie, even Kiss) had to dumb down their sound by 81 onwards in order to be heard by metal fans.
Good point! musical genres are the same as fashion hugely popular for a time falls out of favour for a few years then comes back with a vengeance.
Every generation wants there own statement
Brilliant episode. Informative, pacey and entertaining!
As a 18 year old metal head in 1979, I was super stoked with amazing live albums by UFO, Queen and Priest. And killer studio albums by Riot, Blackfoot, Scorpions, Motörhead (2 albums), Samson, Ac/dc ( at their peak). Not to forget the spark brought by Van Halen. 1978 was even a better year with tons of great studio and live albums. Granted, the big hard rock bands of the seventies were fading, but there were loads of fresh hungry bands being formed from the ashes. And then in 1980 we had the explosion of NWOBHM. Honestly, I don’t think Ronnie had anything to do with this. Metal came back with a vengeance and with a big fat middle finger to New Wave pop.
AC/DC - Powerage and Highway to Hell
Angel Witch
April Wine - Harder...Faster
Def Leppard - On Through the Night
Gillan - Mr. Universe
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest - Hell Bent for Leather and British Steel
Motorhead - Overkill and Bomber
Rose Tattoo
Rush - Hemispheres and Permanent Waves
Scorpions - Lovedrive and Animal Magnetism
Thin Lizzy - Black Rose: A Rock Legend
Triumph - Just a Game
UFO - Obsession
Van Halen II & Women and Children First
Whitesnake - Lovehunter
This is a very pared down list, otherwise I could've gone on forever. And I left off some classic live albums too.
Another band that is going in Martin's direction is Kiss : Dynasty showed a poppy-disco direction
Generally, the 1980s was my least favourite era of all the bands I loved.During this period, I started getting all the back catalogues of all the bands I loved, used of course from Star Records at $1 a pop, which I still own to this day. (thanks Bob Bryden from Christmas band who was the store manager at the time in Hamilton Ontario. As their wasn't a lot happening on the heavy side to which Bob even commented to me that there wasn't much to do but buy the back catalogues of the heavy bands. Of course their were exceptions. Rush,Triumph,April Wine, Pat Travers to name a few. Great episode Martin and Pete.
BOC's Some Enchanted Evening is quite heavy and their bestselling album
I think SEE is an excellent live album. I own the original SEE single disc and then bought the later remastered and expanded version of SEE with more songs and a DVD concert disc from a different performance. Actually all BOC live LPs and DVD are excellent, which is not surprising given how strong BOC as a live concert act.
@@robertzm I remember being majorly disappointed with SEE,feeling like it was a single throwaway,coming too soon after On Your Knees (a masterpiece).
My theory is these two years there was a noticeable lull in the hard rock world. As a junior/senior in high school hard rocker, it was harder to find out where the hard rock was coming from. This is, imho, when new wave and lighter fare hit hard and turned the masses forever away from hard rock/metal because it took work to find it. Im STILL amazed with todays streaming that heavy music hasnt made a big comeback but the masses have given up on the fun of music discovery. They are perfectly happy getting “classic rock” and whoever won the last Americas Got Talent tv show.
Australian hard rock was healthy 78/79 with AC/DC Rose Tattoo and The Angels ( Angel City)
Jethro Tull’s Bursting Out was pretty heavy too. Also a cool obscurity called Legends- Fröm the Fjörds was released in 1979.
This is also the beginning of Hardcore: Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains, Black Flag, Teen Idles, Minor Threat
And independent labels and scenes. Same for Metal, the good stuff was in the underground on independent labels.
Great arguments on both sides. Terrific show.
As long as Priest released Stained Class and Killing Machine in 78 and Scorps release Lovedrive in 79 and motorhead did Overkill and Bomber it wasn't dead, by no means. And throw Strangers in the night , live and dangerous. I was 15 in 78 and those were my heyday of hard rock/heavy metal
For arguing against rock having a commercial nosedive at this period, it should be noted that 78-79 was when Bat Out Of Hell was shifting serious units worldwide.
Thank you Pete and Martin for another fun funhouse episode. Missed this episode because of a major internet outage in our neighborhood.
Love to see an episode with You and Martin discussing if you could only have 1 album by a band with 10+ albums
Best. Episode. Ever.
Interesting show even though I don't consider myself a fan of heavy metal. However I do like some hard rock. I'm sure the line is very blurred, but what is the difference between hard rock and heavy metal? Is it speed? Is it vocal delivery style? Did later developments such as thrash metal mean that some 1970s bands, categorised as heavy metal at the time, were later categorised as hard rock? I love Led Zeppelin and Rush but don't consider any of their output to be heavy metal. However, they are both bands I worked backwards to from the 1980s and beyond. I don't even consider Dio era Rainbow to be heavy metal, although "Light In The Black" arguably gets close. Progressive hard rock would seem a more apt genre in my opinion.
The emergence of extreme metal means that some categorisations have gradually shifted over the decades. Bands we called heavy metal at the time are now called hard rock. I grew up in the Eighties and I distinctly remember the likes of AC/DC, Van Halen, Blue Oyster Cult and even Bon Jovi (!) being routinely described in the media as 'heavy metal'. I think you are right and the rise of thrash metal, then death metal and black metal, has retrospectively made these bands seem very tame indeed.
However the old categorisation still lingers when people talk about 'glam metal' for example. So in theory 'glam metal' Poison are heavier than 'hard rock' Rainbow, except not.
@@jimmycampbell78 Bon Jovi were heavy metal in the 80's, listen to their first two albums, it's pure heavy metal (or glam metal, or hair metal whatever term you like), it's definitely heavier than BOC, AC DC, VH and many other hard rock bands of that time.
@@tjsststsjsjyksjgksjysjs7633 Sure that was the point I was making but I stress those other bands like AC/DC were also called heavy metal at the time. Bon Jovi are a band right on that line of hard rock or metal, particularly on those first two albums you mention. Def Leppard are another example.
But I don't think people would drop them in a conversation as 'metal' now, metalhead purists certainly wouldn't. Contemporary bands to them such as Slayer, Mercyful Fate and Judas Priest are still acceptable.
Great discussion!
Everything went more commercial sounding in the late 70's/early 80's if they were signed to a major label. It happened to Hard Rock, Metal, Punk, Prog etc. This is one of the main reasons independent labels starting popping up at this time. The major labels decided the time of experimentation and artistry for the sake of artistry was over and they wanted more money. It's really no different than the film industry at that time, remember this same period was the beginning of the 'blockbuster'. All of this has just gotten worse over decades which is why you hear and see such formulaic music and movies everywhere now in the mainstream.
The Spinal Tap years. I was full-blown Rush and purchasing their back catalogue in 79-80.
I totally agree with the exception of Iron Maiden’s first album. It came out April 14, 1980 and Heaven & Hell came out April 25, 1980.
I have that Sweet album (OTR), what a great cover!
I finally fixed my stupid account password, love you guys , Appreciate the work, thanks
Wow, I wasn’t aware Dio had such a big impact on punk bands.
luv the topic guys!!
Looking forward to the new Rainbow 🌈. Can't believe you conciderd Vince Neil as a singer.??????? Just lucky to be in a band.
MTV.. is a factor too.
Maybe video by these up and coming bands got people watching MTV and kind of had an abandoning effect of the older sect as they took longer to jump on the video format in an opinion.
Fun episode. Missed you guys for a couple weeks. Always look forward to Friday at Fun house.
have seen him twice...Ronnie stands alone on top !!!
This round goes to...Mr. Pardo
I know I was quite young but ‘78 and ‘79 were exciting in the UK.
Motörhead released a seminal album. Priest released metal albums.
Whitesnake, AC/DC and Thin Lizzy were flying the hard rock flag. Whatever you want is heavier and a return to form for Status Quo. Yes not as heavy as the early albums. But Purple had got lighter and less rock orientated albums.
Not to mention the birth of the new wave of Heavy Metal.
Budgie were still heavy.
Girl school were making their first releases.
Tigers of pang tang were releasing their first single in 1979.
A year of transition maybe but it didn’t go away just started to gestate into something new.
Maiden was playing shows and releasing demos before 1980, and The Misfits Static age was recorded in 1978 but not released until later. This is a dumb topic because so much was either happening (Priest, Scorpions) or brewing underground and about to be released that it makes no sense that everything went soft and then heavy because of Ronnie.
Very true
This was a great one. You guys are the best. I’m going to have to side with Pete.
Great show guys! Love the concept and topic and great points from both Pete and Martin! Wish Ronnie would come back would love to see him im too young sadly to ever have had the opportunity. Always have the music thats the important thing! Have a rockin weekend all!
Now that i watched the video...I can't quite remember if anyone brought up Mr. Universe from 1979. I don't think I recall seeing it. That's pretty rocking. And I just so happened to pause it to watch this video.
I did...both the Gillan Japan album and Mr Universe.
Frank Marino and the Mahogany Rush one of my absolut favorit band from that period super heavy
Great to see PT get a mention
Definitely with Pete on this one, at least from a UK perspective. Gillan, Whitesnake and Motorhead were hugely important transitional bands that helped establish the commercial potential of the NWOBHM. Judas Priest was pretty much defining the HM genre at this time. AC/DC, Thin Lizzy, UFO and Rush were all ascending towards their greatest poularity, and the first three at least sat very easily alongside punk and new wave. Most of us were not so parochial as to limit ourselves to one type of music. To be honest, Ronnie and Sabbath were a bit of a side show, greeted with a certain amount of skepticism. They were not the exciting cutting edge any more, so Ronnie didn't so much hide HM as HM left him in a corner. It wasn't until he put together his own band, and Geezer and Tony lost a lot of credibility with the stories coming out about Live Evil, that Ronnie really established his presence at the head of the genre.
I don't know how succesful exactly were Scorpions in the mid to late 1970s, but they already had a heavy metal sound in several tracks that could have possibly influence several nwobhm bands
@@METALSCAVENGER78 The profile of Scorpions in the UK increased when Michael Schenker rejoined the band for Lovedrive, because he brought a lot if UFO fans to the band, so I think it was Michael that was the important ingredient in the mix.
Need to seperate what was happening in the U.S and Canada, with what was happening in the UK in 78/79. As a 15/year old we were seeing UK based bands UFO , Priest, Gillan, Motorhead, Whitesnake, AC/DC also pretty much UK based , plus Scorpions tour ,we were reading a hearing of this underground movement of Saxon, Rainbow,Samson!, Angelwitch, Maiden. So we saw 79/80 as the start of a boom in heavy bands not as a down time for heavy music and a wave that probably took a year or so to hit across the Atlantic.
Gamma 1. 1979. Davey Pattison. One of my all time favorites, if not THE
Interesting discussion. I think it is merely coincidental that music was in a transitional period during RJDs downtime between Rainbow and Sabbath. Hard rock and HM didn't disappear, as was shown by the numerous examples given, but it did change to a then more modern style. I would also add to the hard rock list April Wine First Glance and Harder Faster, REO Nine Lives (their heaviest album 1979), Pat Travers Heat in The Street, Foreigner Head Games, Axe debut album (1979), Axis It's A Circus World. Would like to see an album ranking of Axe, a very overlooked band. Thanks.
Which BÖC Live Album are you talking about? "Some Enchanted Evening" came out around that time, but I always thought that this was kinda beloved. The next one I can think of was a couple of years later, in 1982, which is "Extraterrestrial Live" (my personal favorite Live Album of theirs).
Extraterrestrial Live is such an awesome album! Just played it yesterday!! 🤘🏼
@@crusheverything4449 I've bought that big box last year, and I kinda got stuck on that for a while. 👍
@@crusheverything4449 isn't that from 1982 ?
@@keithleeuwen877- Yeah, it’s from ‘82 - why do you ask?
@@crusheverything4449 because they were talking about 77,78,79 and
i thought that ETL came out later but wasn't sure, Thanks :)
Martin! Blue Oyster Cult’s crappy live album?! “That no one particularly likes”?! Some Enchanted Evening is their biggest selling album (platinum plus) and is beloved. Legendary versions of Astronomy and ETI (both with extended solo sections); the definitive version of RU Ready 2 Rock (with the great key section); and what is probably their best of the covers they’ve done, Kick Out The Jams; and Godzilla is also fierce. Plus, if you want a full show, there is the expanded reissue as well as Some Enchanted Other Evening. Objectively speaking, a big album for them. Subjectively speaking for me, their best live album as compared to the somewhat bloated On Your Feet or too slick ETL, (on which Albert Bouchard is mostly absent).
No idea why Pete doesn’t challenge Martin with his throw away comments. I think he throws out comments to get a reaction.
@@chrismoyse3529I take everything MP says with grain of salt. He's a fire starter for sure. Our opinions are just as valid as his.
Have to agree with Martin on this one. SEE seemed like a single disc throwaway released too soon after On Your Knees. I bought it new and played it maybe 5-6 times since then. I mean,two covers on a single album?
@@ledzeplover58 I like OYFOOYK a whole lot more. But ETI, RU Ready and Astronomy are almost definitive versions for me personally. I do think he says things sometimes just to wind up folk.
2 covers yes, but On Your Feet also had 2 covers, and I’ll take their bass poppin version of We Gotta Get Out Of This Place (released as a single BTW) over the superfluous I Ain’t Got You. Also, Eric’s vocals are tremendous on this album. And we are introduced to the patented outro of Reaper (which they took from Gil Blanco County from their Stalk Forest days).
Some of Martin's comments suggest an interesting topic... band managers.
Idk what direction to take that conversation in... who had the biggest impact on a bands success? Who ruined a band? Did some managers have several big bands at the same time, and did that impact the quality of the management?
IMO Dio had his own brand of HR&HM..one of those artists that is instantly recognizable. I think it would have been interesting to see Dio's direction if he never hooked up with Ritchie.....
Ronnie DOES have the power of Heavy Metal, lol! Fun chat. Thank, guys!
Pere I love ya I really do. A lot of the bands you mentioned were laughable. Nothing heavy at all in Journey or Pat Travers. Styx, really . There are bands that actually are heavy that you left out like Accept.
The title clearly states hard rock & metal...plenty of hard rock on those albums by Journey, PT, and Styx. OK, so I left off Accept, but the point was not to name every single heavy or hard-rocking band from 1979. The point was that lots of bands were still releasing albums in this style.
@seaoftranquilityprog Well than we just have a difference of opinion of what hard rock is. I don't consider any of those bands even on a large curve remotely hard rock. But that's why there is debate. What fun would it be if we all thought the same.
He did hide it . Holy diver hit me like no other when i heard it . i have a story, i remember the first time hearing it .
How about Accept. Their debut album came out not 1978 but 1979. Dont forget them
Brilliant episode, one of the most imaginative I think you've ever conceived.
I would say you both are right, and wrong....as some lights faded, it allowed others to begin to really shine with a new wave of heaviness. My favorite example of this was the Black Sabbath transition. This was most evident during the Never Say Die tour, where Sabs were slowing down due to drugs and infighting, putting out a weak album and slogging it out again on tour. Tired, frustrated and falling apart creatively, as well as physically, they bring Van Halen out on tour with them. Van Halen is young, fresh and ready to take on the world, and each night, they destroy their headlining heroes. Out paced, out performing on waves of energy that clobbers the Sabbath machine, Sabbath break up and Van Halen rises. Who does Ozzy finally seek out to bring him to a level of which he was witness to, just before the fall? An Eddie-like guitar virtuoso, Randy Rhoads, who will entice that new generation of guitar wizardry appreciation, and catapult Ozzy into that Van Halen arena again. Ronnie, in turn, returns to Sabbath now, to fuse both older and newer fans, into a rebirth of the might of Sabbath. They are both pulled from the ashes, and armed with multiple generations of fans, with Ronnie in the center of it. Honorable mention to all the NWOBHM bands who saw the opening made by these dinosaurs stumble, and broke out such monsters at that same time (1978/79) with Maiden, Saxon, Motorhead, etc...p.s. love the show, keep the conversation going!!!
Wow Pete,s on a roll rock and roll 👍
'78/'79... did Ronnie give priest a spare key to this box?? ;-)-( with Motorhead making a copy w/out asking..
Great discussion. I thought of Judas Priest and Motörhead straight away as an argument against this.
1978 Van Halen
Ouch.
That period of time was crucial for all things metal.
In regards to your Friday at the Funhouse show12/19/24, I noticed there are somewhat of a regional opinion on choice of bands Martin the Canadian picked all these bands that I’ve never listened to or heard of .Bands like Coney Hatch, or April Wine. Peter seem to pick more of the bands from the US playlist, some of the classic rockers. I’ve noticed that a lot of people from Midwest somewhat regional taste Midwest bands like REO or Cheap Trick . People from East Coast, and West Coast have a tendency to have a little more hard edge to their musical taste. definitely big difference between the US and Canada as far as bands that were popular back in the 70s and 80s. that might be an interesting topic to do a show on.
It's funny... several of the bands that Pete uses to support his side of the debate really only held out until the very early 80s, then went softer
Some Enchanted Evening is NOT a crappy live album
Seven songs, two covers - hell yeah, it is.
@@MartinPopoff I get the pt, but it went platinum in the US. Everyone I knew had that album.
The live albums from UFO, Judas Priest, & Thin Lizzy can't be discounted. Yes, there are the "greatest hits" being played but the live tracks are definitely heavier than any of the studio versions.
Good show gentlemen, lots of good choices.
Even Paul McCartney who isn’t heavy or metal has his most mellow album in 78 with London Town
really explain time period very well.
and if Pete reads these comments, I have a show idea.....take the bands discussed on SoT and their most popular songs....the ones that you hear on the radio, the ones they play as encores in concert. Now divide them into 3 categories....#1: The ones you have loved from the beginning and still love no matter how overplayed. You turn it up if it comes on the radio and sing along in concert #2: Songs you used to love, but have largely been ruined by oversaturation. You change the radio station and no longer want them in the setlist #3: Songs that are popular that you always hated...because they were just too much of a sellout for airplay...true fans would never put these songs among the artist's best, but casual fans demand them. My examples: Category #1: Carry On Wayward Son, 25 or 6 to 4, Still of the Night, Peace of Mind, Don't Tell Me You Love Me, War Pigs, Who Are You, early Van Halen, etc Category #2: (classics ruined by classic rock radio)....Limelight, Spirit of Radio, More Than A Feeling, Smoke on the Water, Paranoid/Iron Man, Don't Fear the Reaper, Bohemian Rhapsody, Rock You Like A Hurricane, Won't Get Fooled Again, Baba O'Reilly, all Foreigner, Heart, Journey, AC/DC, Judas Priest, Styx songs played on the radio. Category #3: Jump, Start Me Up, Rainbow In The Dark, Enter Sandman, You've Got Another Thing Coming, Here I Go Again, Hit Me With Your Best Shot, Owner of a Lonely Heart, Stone Cold, Hysteria era Def Leppard, etc.
Deep Purple and Ozzy fronted Black Sabbath were the first to show us how it was done. Dio fronted Rainbow 1975-1978 perfected it. The NWOBHM bands then develop it, Ronnie joins Black Sabbath and perfects the NWOBHM sound. Ronnie James Dio perfected things. In the mid 90’s he tried to perfect industrial music too….but it was a swing and a miss on that occasion. But hey, not every rocket hits the moon.
You could argue that the old guard where handing over the heavy metal baton to the new bands emerging as the eighties dawned, and in just a few short years it became even heavier with the emergence of thrash.
Maybe video by these up and coming bands got people watching MTV and kind of had an abandoning effect of the older sect as they took longer to jump on the video format in an opinion. I wonder why Legs Diamond gets pretty much ignored during these times ? They had some good output then. Thin Lizzy was still kickin ass too but America had lost interest for some reason. Off topic a bit, you ever think about doing an episode on Swan Song Records output ? Maggie Bell, Bad Company, Detective,Dave Edmunds, The Pretty Things, Zep of course and so on......
This is actually a moot point in that the case is made for both sides depending on which band is picked.The same point could be made for the beginning of the decade as to which bands got heavier by say,'73, as opposed to which got lighter and more commercial.
I have a question was Martin at the Skinny Puppy show where Ain't Dead Yet was filmed I swear I saw a young Martin in the audience. It was filmed in Toronto. This dude in the audience just looking all intense more like he's a critic. I also asked myself while watching who is that hot guy?
Ha ha, sorry man. I've not ever seen that band.
Yep sitting around with my buds listening to Long Live Rock and Roll - 18 years old and worried that disco was going take over and other crappola .
Thanks for taking me back….
Riot, Y&T (yesterday & Today) & Van Halen also got heavier (or atleast didn't wimp out)
What if they had "Woodstock" style concert with all sorts of different classic rock bands in the snow? Would you go to that?
At my age? Probably not.
Starz Collisium Rock is pretty heavy
All the traditional bands like zeppelin, heep, nazareth were on a more comercial journey in 1979, but under the surface the NWOBHM was growing
Motörhead saved ‘78-80 for punk, hard rock, and heavy metal.
Def Lep also?
Ramones, Kiss, ZZ Top, Rolling Stones all get poppier.
Edit: Van Halen, Ted Nugent, and Maiden also helped with heaviness in this time frame…but if you sing Icecream man on an album, you get minus fifteen points on the heavy scale.
Rocking all over the world was the first ”bad” Status Quo album, in my opinion also not a Quo boogie album, not when you compare it to all albums from Ma Kelly to Blue for you, some years later they released Just Supposin & Never too Late, there were the boogie back
For years I never included it in the good ones, but I love Quo so much, it snuck in recently.
In the palace of the virgin lies the chalice of the soul and it's likely you might find the answer there
Late 70s, UK & European bands get heavier, US bands mostly go pop/lighter !
What about you FO and scorpions the shanker Brothers
i was listening to a lot of heavy shit in 1979.
Lol 🤣🤣 Martin saying that Foghat "shrunk the boogie".
Stone Blue still in my rotation!
@@basher5107love Stone Blue my favorite from Foghat
One that Martin forgot to mention: Alice Cooper's From The Inside (1978) is his least rocking album, full of lush piano arrangements and shmaltzy ballads performed by Elton John's backing band. I actually like the album for what it is, but it really doesn't rock.
STATE US QUO 😠😠😠🤣🤣🤣a superb show gentlemen.
Can it be blamed on the record industry itself? They killed metal (tried)
No it's the internet that killed it, and greedy mafia ticket co.
Depends on what you consider Metal. I don't consider the 80's hair bands to be Metal, the record industry and mainstream did though. Metal never died out, it thrived in the underground like it always has and continues to do.
No
"People don't like particuylary Some Enchanted evenings"? On what planet MArtin? It is their best selling album, double platinum following some research...
Don't care. It's got seven songs and two of them are covers. One is a crap song and even "Kick Out the jams" showed itself as more boring than any BOC original.
Is everything Martin owns signed lol
Come on, Starz Coliseum Rock of 1978 is a great classic album. And Godz debut album slays!
Pull up some early 70s footage of Lucifer's friend with John Lawton on vocal . Then pull up some early scorpions footage from around lonesome crow . Put those two singers together and you practically have Ronnie James Dio . 🙋
Derringer. Heavy?? Mmm
Rick was definitely pretty hard rocking early on.
@@seaoftranquilityprog must have missed that
Basically go through the Sweet Evil album - it's sorta as heavy as an Aerosmith album, and sounds a helluva lot like one. But that's the only album, i.e. for heaviness in any concentration.
@@MartinPopoff just have. I can possibly see why he wasn’t that commercially successful. Struggling for a tune throughout
the weird thing about music is starz attention shoppers was horrible at the time but now i think its great
Same. There are great power pop songs hidden on there along with some ass kickers.
Heavy metal, punka nd new wave are all cool with me. i don't see why there can't be room for all of it. Why can't artists just be themselves? Of course if one naturally wants to change styles, let 'em, but why this push to sound like one particular thing that's popular. That's always been weird to me. We like artists and bands for what they are, not because they sound like something else. This isn't so much a comment on the episode or the statements made there, just a general observation. I mean really, who gives a crap what's considered "cool"?
I agree with Pete that hemispheres sounds like Rush's heaviest album. The opening of the Hemispheres suite alone is probably heavier than anything else in their discography.
But I also wasn't around at the time, and don't really know what people generally thought of these albums. I'm discovering and loving them after the fact, which probably makes a difference in how I feel about things.