Harvest Show Interview | Nancy & Robert Wolgemuth | 04/07/2017
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2017
- It may be true that marriages are made in heaven, but they have to be lived out here on earth. Husband-and-wife authors Robert and Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth talk about the power of becoming one.
Links:
Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth
www.adornedbook.com
Robert Wolgemuth
www.robertwolgemuth.com
I could listen to their love story every day!
With my husband, i felt the same. I could hold my own. But when my husband and i started getting to know each other better and intentionally, i knew he had my heart. I knew i wanted to be his. I belonged to him. I knew the kind of woman i wanted to be. The type of man he is, made me want to be a better woman. All in Jesus
His body seems imposing physically over her. His head looks down with forehead imposing also.
Hmmmm
Mr. Wolgemuth said, "I loved being married, because I loved being a shepherd. I loved shepherding a wife." What he really means is: "I love having a subordinate spouse." That's not biblical, even when you decorate it with frilly language that makes it seem romantic. I'm a parent who shepherds my children, but they will NOT always be subordinate to me. In fact, my hope and desire is that they will grow up and become my equals! If they don't, I won't feel like a successful parent. As a church member, I try to minister to newer believers and disciple them. My hope and desire is that they will spiritually grow up to become my equals, right? A missionary in a third world country should be trying to raise up leaders to become equals, not to keep them permanently subordinate to strangers from a wealthier country. A GOOD leader uses their privilege, experience, wealth, etc. to raise up the less privileged to become tomorrow's leaders. A bad leader does NOT want to raise less privileged people up to become his equals! A bad leader wants to keep them subordinate and permanently lower in hierarchy. A bad leader is one who sees himself as a permanent shepherd and his wife as a permanent "sheep" to be controlled. Nope, nope, nope. Jesus is the Shepherd, the only one in a permanent position of authority.
The NT challenged husbands to subvert the Roman household codes (that legally placed the eldest male as the authority) by loving his wife (which was completely optional and even laughable to some in that culture). Women were encouraged to follow the law of the land, (which was submitting to their husband as legal authority), but with the disclaimer, "in the Lord". That is, God is our ultimate authority above government issued authorities, and a wife didn't have to follow her husband into sin (ex, Abigail didn't follow Nabal and was rewarded, but Sapphira DID follow Ananias into sin and paid the price!). This twist on the Roman household codes would have been pretty scandalous for many women at the time, to obey God's authority over a legal authority like a husband. In the same NT passages, slaves were also commanded to serve their government issued legal authority: their master. However, I seriously doubt Mr. Wolgemuth would insist that slavery was commanded by God for believers today! So why does he insist that Christians today obey the pagan Roman household codes, by demanding women be subordinate to their husband?
God's original design was mutuality and equality for husband and wife. Sadly, as predicted in Genesis, men will always be tempted to take advantage of their privilege and try to rule over women - either by physical force, financial force, or spiritual manipulation. Jesus was very, very explicit about toppling human hierarchy, but as soon as Jesus went up to Heaven, many of His own followers even began to wander back into hierarchy. Much of the book of Romans was written to explain why Jews are not in hierarchy over Gentiles! In Galatians, Paul confronts Peter (Cephas) about how Peter was treating the Gentile believers. If even Peter struggled with privilege, why should we be surprised that even good Christian men today struggle to give up gender hierarchy?
Have you not read in Ephesians that we submit to one another, but then there are also special roles for husbands and wives? Have you not watched their other videos? This husband is definitely not wanting to keep his wife under him. I think your interpretation of his words shows a sad experience in your life where you’ve become distrustful of even good men, which means also God our Heavenly Father. I pray that you’ll be healed by His wooing love and not be afraid to trust Him in all relationships. As Nancy says herself, she’s hardly a demure submissive woman. These are all lessons we all learn in relationships. They talk and pray over everything, and even disagree, but when a decision has to be made he takes the responsibility to make the call. Submission means that I can let go of that responsibility and trust that God will bless the outcome as we mirror what Jesus did with His Father, in “not my will, but Yours.” Every marriage will be different, but as Christians we should respect one another and work out what works for us in making decisions and in both submitting to the Lord.
@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God Funny, your first assumption is that I have no idea what complementarian theology is supposed to look like, and your next is that I must somehow be "damaged" or have a broken marriage, or "distrust" God because I don't agree with gender-based subordination. Both are completely inaccurate, and classic examples of attacking my character instead of engaging with my theology or arguments themselves. You don't reply to a single one of my very detailed theological explanations about why gender-based subordination is not biblical, but simply deflect onto a VERY incorrect assumption about my character.
First, I have a "Bible college" degree from a completely complementarian school that thoroughly trained us in theology exactly like above video. I spent 2 decades being trained repeatedly and exhaustively about the "importance" of gender-based subordination. I believed in it so much that I chose, against parental wishes, to go to a Bible college that promoted that view. Paid out of my own pocket. I probably know more about complementarian theology than you do. Why did I finally reject it? After I graduated and married, I was blessed to attend a BSF (Bible Study Fellowship) There, I learned the principles of exegesis, and when those principles are applied to the typical complementarian "clobber" verses, then it becomes impossible to insist that the Bible teaches gender-based subordination. I discovered that those who practice egalitarian Christianity are much more like Jesus than those who hoard power and authority based on gender.
Second, you assumed that I must somehow be damaged or untrusting because I have an egalitarian theology. Ha! I am happily married to a man who treats me as an equal human being, first marriage for both of us. We practiced an egalitarian marriage before we even embraced egalitarian theology, because people walking in the Holy Spirit don't demand (or expect) to have the "final say" based on gender. Why? Because (Acts 2) the Holy Spirit uses both men and women. I have a spectacular church home, too, that my husband and I chose together - in fact, the Holy Spirit individually led each of us to this church! No need for any "final say" when the Holy Spirit can communicate to both of us.
Lastly, you refer to Jesus submitting to God the Father and use that to insist that women should be permanently subordinate to men. Have you even heard of the "eternal subordination of the Son" controversy? So, fun fact, Wayne Grudem decided to distort the Trinity in order to support his claims about women being equal but subordinate, because (he claimed) Jesus is equal to God but has a permanent subordinate role. Well, in recent years even the leading complementarians have abandoned Grudem's claims, because they admit it is impossible for Jesus to be functionally subordinate yet equal in essence, therefore if Jesus has some kind of permanent "role" to be subordinate, then Jesus could not be God. Similarly, it is impossible to claim that women can be equal in essence yet permanently subordinate in role (function). Either women are NOT limited in role, or women are inferior in essence. Which one reflects the ministry of Jesus Christ? I recommend Kevin Giles book, "The Rise and Fall of the Complementarian Doctrine of the Trinity".
@@achilders758 Equally funny, you assume somehow that I was talking permanent submission of Jesus and wives (even tho I said Ephesians says we "submit to one another" and "every marriage will be different"). I did reference some verses, but that didn't meet up to your expectations of a theological debate. All of this really is not a big deal. I'm glad you're good with men and you're good with how your marriage is working out. Probably best not for us to mess with people who are happy in their circumstances, such as trying to tell us he means something other than what he says. He loves shepherding a family. That doesn't have to a negative as you've interpreted it. Whatever they call it, it's working for them and God is being glorified which is supposed to be all of our goals! I apologize if my reply to your comment assumed you'd been hurt by men. That's a common thing these days, and I rejoice to know not in your case.
Jesus was/is the Lamb of God AND the Good Shepherd. A married brother is both a husband AND, as a member of the Church, part of Jesus's bride. Peter wrote exhortations to elders to be honest, humble shepherds of God's flock while reminding them that they'd returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of their souls.
Praise God for arranging this marriage. Rather than being critical, I will pray for my brother and sister. May God use them to his glory as an example of how godly marriage is supposed to be. One of the saddest things among professed believers is a divorce rate that is on par with the unsaved!! So l will pray for and root for my brother and sister in Christ. We may never meet on this planet but by the grace of God we'll meet each other in heaven.
What a blessed godly couple! May the Lord bless your marriage and continue shining his love through reflecting the love of the Lord Jesus by submitting to His Father's will by dying on the cross. Ephesians 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body."
This is the first time I ever heard of a sheep becoming a shepherd. "ALL we LIKE SHEEP have gone astray"..... but this guy has now become a shepherd and she says that 'he has given her the freedom to disagree'. Further, he now has discernment when she 'wanders', because she does so frequently--mentally and emotionally, and he has to reign her in. Who reigns him in? He never, ever wanders, and he is always focused and on task? Sorry if I'm sounding tacky.
I don’t think he said he “reigns her in”, but instead he woos her again to become present. As far as God is concerned they are both still His sheep, and in my view of relationships we are both shepherds of one another because that is what love does - it goes after the lost or the wandering, but it can’t demand. It woos and waits.
@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God I listened again, just to be sure, and Mr. W. says that wives "wander all the time", mentally and emotionally. Huh? She went through the first 57 years of her life without someone in a husband's shepherding position to pull her back to reality? I just deleted a very, very long paragraph, and I've shortened it to say that, respectfully, the shepherd analogy has been really stretched too far, and I must disagree with you. If I were married to somebody like that who hovered over me trying to determine if I'd wandered away or not because, he says, a wife wanders "all the time", I'd go bonkers and, well, we'd be having a long discussion, just as soon as he gives me the freedom to disagree, of course. Peace.
You did hear that right. Did you get the idea that he was calling Jesus a sheep? Maybe I'm confused.
Wow, This is an example of a Godly ordained marriage and couple!
This is a love story with jesus in the center.
Going to be snarky here. Those poor foolish, wondering women. If not for a man she would out there wondering around lost and straying from God. I do have a few questions though. Does God save women in the same wsy that He saves men? Do both genders then receive the same indwelling Holy Spirit? Is that Holy Spirit just not as able to lead and guide a woman as it is well as it is able to lead and guide a man? Is the man equal with Jesus and does he therefore become her savior and she is then no longer in need of The Savior. It really sounds to me like a picture of how the Pharisees behaved towards Gods people and therefore was why Jesus had such an issue with them.