Rheingold: BIG YES! This was the first on-stage opera for my 7yr old son, and he just loved it. Despite it was in German that he does not understand, he could follow it. You could follow the words in Hungarian (and English!) on a built-in translator pad as a compartment to your chair; but even he could not read! So I just showed the translator to my phone, had an app to read out loud the text it sees, and he had earplugs from the phone to tell him the libretto. We did not disturb anybody in the opera house. And it worked SO-SO well! He loved the story, but also the music. Actually, we heard the music first in my car. We arrived before the end of the Rheingold, but he was so much interested that we had to wait the end of the music in the car (+ 10 minutes). After having seen the opera, we gave it another hearing in the car, for my surprise, he could just recognize the music, and while we were hearing it, he just told me exactly what is going on, who does what and who tells what at the instant. It was a great-great experience. 160 minutes at once: it was not an issue for him. He was so much into it that he also wanted to come with me to Siegfried together as his second opera. :)
Interesting list! Years ago, I had a friend ask me what I thought a good starter opera was, even though I explained I didn't really have all that much experience with opera myself at that stage. I remember her saying "I'd really like to get into opera a little bit, but I just don't know where to begin. There's so much!" I then suggested "Carmen" (when it was your first suggestion, this all came back to me and I had a big smile on my face.) She asked "Why "Carmen"?", and I said, "Because you already know the music more than you think you do." I then loaned her my recording - Solti on Decca - and she confirmed later that this was exactly her experience - she was amazed at all the principle tunes she knew - she was so enthused and pleased! She LOVED it. It wasn't the intimidating ordeal she was anticipating, and it made for a pleasurable first experience. Simply put, she realized listening to opera wasn't particularly "hard". I also suggested, "A good thing to do is to start listening to the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts when you have the time - it doesn't matter so much if you don't really know what they're singing about - just listen to it like you'd listen to anything - it's broadcast on Saturday afternoons, and you can listen while doing things around the house - and that will get the idiom in your ears and into your subconscious. Then whenever you hear something you like, seek it out and listen with both ears." A few years later - I was asking HER for recommendations! She took to it like a duck to water, just by letting the music in. People have a tendency to think they need to have more knowledge going in than they really do - not just with opera, but any classical music - they get a little browbeaten and intimidated - all self-inflicted. People are shy of listening to something cold - they don't trust their own ears because they feel at sea. The trick is not to care that you're at sea. "What if I don't like it??" Answer: "Turn it off! You will not die!!" Like your t-shirt says - "Keep on listening" - eventually the music will seep into your head and listening will get easier and more automatic. I'm in love with this channel and have been gorging myself on it for several days now. Great discussion, as usual.
100% agree! Carmen is *the ideal* first opera. I recently took my flatmate and a friend of his from South Africa, neither of whom have any background with classical music or opera, to see Carmen in Vienna and they both loved it and were humming the tunes for days.
These 10 operas are sooooo accessible. My first live opera at age 12 was Jenufa (in English). That started a lifelong affair with the genre. Evidently a budding conductor arrived in a state of ecstasy at Mahler’s office with the score of Tristan. Mahler took the Tristan score and handed him the score of Carmen, telling him to learn Bizet’s opera first! Strauss, at the first orchestral rehearsal in Dresden , described Salome as “a scherzo with a fatality”.
No screaming here. I think Salome is one of the trashiest things ever written - trashy characters (straight off the Jerry Springer show) and trashy (magnificent) music. I guess that's why I LOVE it so much. It's great! "Dialogues" - final scene is utterly devastating. I sang in 2 productions as a chorus member. It left most of us in tears at every performance, and also at most rehearsals.
Excellent list. I have been going to the opera for about 60 years and think these are well chosen. A very good friend of mine vowed never to see an opera. I finally got him to see Peter Grimes and he came out saying "what a story!" He also loved the interludes. Became a fan after that.
Why not encourage him to attend a Gilbert & Sullivan performance? Newcomers to opera can feel at ease because of the tuneful, melodious scores. Also, English-speakers can relate to these operas easily.
My first opera in an opera house was Rigoletto. It worked marvelously. I was so much amused by Monterone! Oh, it was so much my favourite part! And Rigoletto's monolouges, all of them - it helped me so much while being a victim of school bullying. I was something like 10 yrs then. The rest is history.
I'm a piano crazy by nature and only just starting at this point of my life to explore opera, and some of the first I ever listened to all the way through are here, with Porgy and Bess, Jenufa, and Das Rheingold. Absolute slam dunk choices, everyone. I sat in my office space at work weeping to Jenufa, what a miraculous piece.
Carmen is a perfect opera for beginners. It's packed with gorgeous, dramatic/lyrical melodies.. It's also one of the few operas with a very good story and interesting characters. My favorite Carmen is Von Karajan's with Leontyne Price, Franco Corelli and the Vienna Philharmonic. Pryce's smoky-voiced Carmen is a sexy, manipulative, ruthlesss vixen, Corelli sings with his usual passion and his Don Jose utterly adores Carmen. The other soloists and chorus are great and Von Karajan's conducting is glorious from start to finish.
This selection of Operas has been a chore to slog through but I am glad I am doing it. I have now listened/watched 5 of the selections. I had to break down Peter Grimes into the 3 Acts in order to finish it. The only vocals that stuck in my head was their constant singing of his name, "Peter Grimes"..... Not sure I enjoyed the story since not much to enjoy about child abuse but I was interested enough to watch the whole thing. Next up on the misery train was Dialogues of the Carmelites and the mass murder of a covenant of nuns. I did watch this in one sitting, and since dumb me did not pick up that this was the French Revolution, I kept waiting to find out what the nuns would do was so bad that they would be executed only to learn they did nothing but were casualties of the excess of the Church hierarchy that turned the revolutionists against the Church. Again, the story kept me watching and the Orchestration was great but I fell no great need to hear the songs/Arias again. The most successful of the Operas for me was the last one I watched, The Bartered Bride. I watched a version that was staged like it was the 50's and I found the whole presentation delightful. There were song stand out performances and songs but not sure I will listen to a recording. However, if given a chance to see any of the 5 so far live, I think I would pick either Carmen or The Bartered Bride.
This is cool. I like to watch operas with acting and (if in a foreign language), subtitles. To me, hearing a recording without seeing the opera acted and without subtitles would be like me going to a restaurant and ordering a meal and, instead of eating the meal, the waiter explains the ingredients and how they are prepared and I’m paying for an explanation instead of food. My dad used to listen to operas, one of them bring Carmen. He’d walk around the house, waving a knife around (to get into the mood of the music) and smile. I knew it was his deviant fun so it didn’t bother me.
Great selections! Two of my favorites are included (Carmelites and Peter Grimes), and Das Rheingold is an inspired choice. My introduction to opera was from Met radio broadcasts in in 1950s. I didn't go deeply until I started watching dvds. The subtitles helped, and I enjoy the theatrical aspects as well as the music. And there are some singers nowadays who can actually act, and who are attractive, too. For some beginners, this might be a way into opera.
I consider myself a beginner. Two years ago I decided to listen 50 operas in blue ray. From several sources and recommendations I wrote a list of near 100, and started to buy what was available. I think the intersection between your list and mine is no more than 3 or 4 operas. I have bought almost 40 and listened about 35. I will add your recommendations to my list. Thank you for the list and the explanations.
I was initially surprised that you picked Peter Grimes but once I listened to your explanation it made a lot of sense. I was fortunate to have seen Peter Grimes with Jon Vickers in the title role. It was a phenomenal experience both theatrically and musically.
I have to agree that these are interesting. My first opera experiences were TV broadcasts on Sunday afternoon in the 1950's. Salome, Don Giovanni and Love of Three Kings. Got me interested, though Salome was a bit much for a 9 year old. So, I think that anything that grabs interest is important.
I would love to see a list of sadistic Operas to take first time non-opera goers to in order to turn them off to going to Opera forever. I took an Austrian friend to a schleppy performance of Parsifal at the Vienna State Opera once. He wanted to go. He said "I hope no one ever does this me again" after the performance.
Shocked!!!! Just Shocked you didn’t include….. just kidding. A very well thought out list. And I love that Porgy and Bess made the list. It just gushes out beautiful melodies nonstop from beginning to end… it’s a great selection for “listening” without having to see it. Salome is another excellent example of a “listen-able” opera without having to see it. The music is fire!!!
A really great list! I particularly liked your inclusion of Das Rheingold. I wish Wagner had kept Loge as on on stage character. He kept things moving and added just enough humor to offset Wotan (who Anna Russell deemed a horrible bore). As to the rest of the list: Right on!
A very well-done and original list! And I think that including "Das Rheingold" is brilliant. FYI, The Ride of the Valkyries is not my favorite Wagner, it's not my favorite music of the Ring, it's not my favorite music of "Die Walkuere", it's not even my favorite part of Act 3!
My mother was not at all a classical music listener, and she only went with me to one opera in her life, and it was Salome. (in a semi-staged performance with the Boston Symphony). Anyway, I wasn’t quite sure what she was making of it as her first experience of opera. Then, at the the dramatic climax of the work, then they carry in the head of John the Baptist on a platter, she leaned over to me and whispered, “I thought at least it would be on a bed of lettuce…”
Afterwards, she said (about the dance of the seven veils), “She had no business stripping.” Yeah, it was Hildegard Behrens. 😂 But she was deeply impressed by the mass of orchestral sound. As I’m sure you know Symphony Hall is a torture chamber… but at least the acoustics are incomparable
Dear Mr Hurwitz! I would like to ask you to consider to make a talk about all Janáček's operas in the order you think are the best. It would also be interesting to know if you believe that the operas all are equally good. Best wishes Fred.
Oh God, I bought that version of Salome on video without even knowing what that opera was about, the kissing scene was one the most grotesque scenes I've ever seen. You are totally correct on saying it is creepy. Great list!
I got into it with Terry Teachout, who was the WSJ drama critic, about the relevance of Wagner. We were in college together, played piano duets, debated the meaning of life. I don't remember how the discussion started on Facebook, but I said Wagner was still very relevant to culture. He said, That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! (or something to that effect). I said, Look at the Marvel movies. You'd never have most of those without Wagner. He didn't concede. But then he died, so Wotan had obviously had quite enough of him, gave a wave of his hand, and sent Brunnhilde to clean up the mess.
CARMELITES may be my favorite opera. A video of John Dexter's beautiful, stark production for the Met is, I believe, available on demand on its website.
Dave's lists are always good... excellent that is. Bought the Poulenc one recently and liked it much. The operas on this list are so diverse and will stretch anyone. My own love goes for Salome. It's based on a play by Oscar Wilde after all.
Great choices Dave! Love that you picked some more obscure (but equally worthy) operas like Gianni Schicchi and not just Tosca, Butterfly or Boheme (even though the latter was my introduction to opera and I'm not complaining).
I'd say the Flying Dutchman is also fairly fast in Wagnerian terms and not too self-indulgent, decent entrance to Wagner. But I think I started with Rheingold.
For me, opera sure was an acquired taste. I always recommend starting by finding a plot that interests you. This is a great list. I saw your previous video about Jenufa and now I’m in love!
This list is almost identical to one I was asked for by a curious friend some years ago. Very glad to hear my opinion backed by a competent authority. Couldn't agree more about Rheingold especially! All those little songlets that pop up and disappear poof, like that. They're undeniable. And as for Rigoletto, there is probably no better portal for the neophyte to such august operatic set pieces as mistaken identity, disguises, listening at keyholes, unworldly damsels being misused, ugly scoundrels getting their comeuppance, and more!
My almost 5 year old daughter is completely hooked to the Rheingold. For a year now. And it's not just the music. the action is more important to her, I guess
I decided to make a list of these 10 and I am going to slowly work on them over time. I have made the decision to watch each one first and then listen to the ones I liked again in recording format. I actually saw the 1984 Carmen movie with Placido Domingo at a movie theater in London and that is/was my only opera experience. I decided to start with the Strauss. I watched on youtube the "BOLOGNA, 2010" which was recorded live from the Teatro Comunale di Bologna. I picked that version because it had English subtitles and my TV could stream it in 4k and Dolby Atmos. No fake blood or head but there was nudity and Jochanaan was played by a Black man covered in what looked like white chaulk which was interesting. Now I am familiar with the piece, I will listen to a recording so I can focus more on the music. Not sure which one I will try next but I am going to wait a few days before moving on.
The Bartered Bride: my dad - who was fond of words and their use and deliberate misuse - always called THIS "The Battered Bride", and means that Smetana's work would probably NOT have been a comedy - unless it was set in a fish shop...
I’m entirely in agreement with you on the point of DVD recordings of full opera productions. Almost invariably, I’d rather just listen to a CD set. Until now I’ve been wondering if I’m the sole constituent of a minority. As regards your choices: what beats a first listening to Peter Grimes? Oh, it’s sooooooo much fun!! I love it every time I hear it, but my first was truly incredible. I just love Britten as an opera composer. Funny, you’ve selected just about all the works I showed my father when I was trying to get him into classical music. Noise is his thing in music, and there’s plenty of it in these magnificent operas. I use the word “noise” with incredible affection. I love Suor Angelica. I know it’s the “worst” in its trilogy, but the music is just…so…gorgeous! The aria Senza Mamma is one of the great arias that nobody talks about. I don’t blame you at all for not liking children’s choruses in operas. They really can be irritating, not least because they are often colorless and out-of-tune. Rigoletto was the first opera I saw live. As I walked out of the theater, I couldn’t believe what I had just heard. I couldn’t believe music, especially vocal music, could sound like that. Oh, and the string accompaniment in “Si, Vendetta!” is just about the most amazing thing, or so I think while I’m listening to it, every time. I hope your list gets plenty of people into opera, Dave! It’s a great list! I love that it isn’t conventional. By the way, I had no idea that Schubert people are so explosive! Ha ha! Sorry for all the run-ins you’ve had with classical crazies over the years.
I never understood opera (as a total orchestral music addict since elementary school) and found it too long, boring, or pretentious. THEN I saw a couple of in-person performances of the Vienna State Opera doing Aida and Tosca. Wow! Looking forward to going through this list, and to playing more opera up in Anchorage this season. Thanks!! (Also, Salome is the first opera I was exposed to in college music history that blew my mind open. Not an uncommon experience I'm sure.)
Totally agree that Das Rheingold is the best introduction to Wagner. I imprinted on Solti ( very cinematic). I also remember how disappointed I was , at first, with Walkure. It moved so slowly and where were the giants, Loge, Thor ?😮
I had the same experience and I thought it was just me. I remember thinking what a bore Siegmund was and... well, he is. 😄 I still have a soft spot for Rheingold, but nowadays Walküre is my favourite of all operas.
David, so right about reading the libretto before you listen, or at least AS you listen (if you can do that.... ) The BIG problem is that nowadays the CD companies don't bother including the text in its original language or translation(s). Those beautiful old LP sets with their gorgeous legible booklets are a thing of the past. There was a while when Decca and DG and EMI provided links to downloadable versions, but those seem also to have disappeared.... Great list by the way. There is NOTHING funnier than Gianni Schicchi! And Rigoletto (my first serious opera experience) was THE opera which made me want to work in the art form for ever.
That is an issue for me. In CD and LP booklets the libretto is in small print. It's bad for the eyes and your sight can be ruined. Also, for people whose master language is English, it would help if they could read along with a line-by-line translation of the libretto.
I posted on another Beginners video about finding Sibelius’ Pelleas and Melisande to be one of the first classical pieces to hook me. Then I went to learn more about the Pelleas and Melisande craze in the late nineteenth-early twentieth century. There’s Fauré and Schoenberg chiming in. Then Debussy writes the opera for it. This one is not an opera for beginners. Trust me.
Another great review. Spent half the weekend listening to or re-listening to these. I'm about as young as you are Dave, and have been an obsessive collector of music, mostly rock, since my early youth and really didn't get into classical music until about 20 years ago. Which sounds like a long time but I really didn't realize how much of a beginner I was until I started watching these videos. Just out of curiosity, I wonder if most of your other viewers consider themselves to be beginners and how old they were when they started on the bottomless pit that is classical music.
I heard Das Rheingold as my first Wagner opera. Fore it was boring in first listening especially in the Nibelungen scene. But after listening to many recordings and focusing on the music, it was just marvelous. I still haven't heard the complete ring cycle though because I have no time.
A thoughtful, useful list! I wonder if you'll say more about how immediately alienating classical singing can sound to beginners. I am a devoted opera fan, but remember having to get used to the timbre of operatic declamation when I started out. Along with the organ and harpsichord (an instrument I only barely tolerate), classical voice presents timbral barriers to musical enjoyment. I wonder if technique adapted to the microphone (which, as someone had it, "made singers of us all") might sometimes be welcome in some repertoire. For example, I think Handel's Hercules would sound marvelously if expressed with the detail and intimacy only the microphone allows.
Great list Dave! There’s a lot of variety here, while also leaving a lot of masterpieces to be discovered (no Mozart or Rossini!). When my wife and I were first dating, her first introductions to opera were Eugene Onegin and Turandot - this met with mixed success, though she still loves Onegin to this day. For me, Das Rheingold was my intro to Wagner and it kicked off my lifelong love of the composer. It might be Wagner’s least pretentious opera - not saying much! But I can’t say Parsifal would have had the same effect…
My first Wagner opera was The Flying Dutchman; I wish it had been Das Rheingold. Rheingold's a complete story by itself, feels the most like mythology, and explores Wagner's thematic conflict of love vs power/greed with less problems that came with Wagner being his own librettist.
Dear Dave,, greetings from Germany, near Cologne. Jacques Offenbach was born in Cologne and not far away is Bonn (Beethoven) and Siegburg (Engelbert Humperdinck) - In 2013 the BBC published a magazine "50 Great Works to build your classical Music CD Library", to my surprise it included Hänsel and Gretel, Peter Grimes was one of the operas you also mentioned. No criticism from my side but a differentiation, maybe this has to do because you are highly competent. No comment on the operas you've enumerated, they are all great. Perhaps my differentiation is based on the word beginners, this is a bit ambiguous. Do you mean somebody who finally shows a bit of interest in operas or is it someone who is atttached to classical music already but not so much on operas. I doubt if some of these operas are good for beginners. I have done a lot of research, always ask people from the audience "How did your interest in operas start.?" No doubt, German culture plays an important role. You are right, Carmen and Rigoletto are often mentioned, but basically on the list are "Die Zauberflöte", "Die Entführung aus dem Serail," Hänsel und Gretel (often watched by school classes though it is no opera for children), Beethoven's Fidelio and Der Freischütz Weber), Aida. Der Freischütz is often taught in our schools, the main reason is that the Ouverture includes a lot of motifs that can easily be identified by beginners. Interesting for you, we had some Bayreuth experts on TV and they said the easiest approach to Wagner is "Der Fliegende Holländer." Two years ago I saw a Flying Dutchman performance and afterwards I met two women, they told me: "Never again Wagner for us". And one of them was even informed and said "And this is the opera experts recommend for beginners?" - I was stunned. In 2002 I myself was on stage, "Rhinegold" in Cologne. I was a Niblung and was kicked by Alberich when i collected pieces of gold. By the way, the conductor was the great Kent Nagano. As first opera for Beginners I always recommend Lortzing's Zar und Zimmermann, with the catchy Clog dance. You can watch this on You Tube. I have no favourite opera but a favourite aria: "Einsam in trüben Tagen" by Elsa in Lohengrin. Next opera for me to watch is Tannhäuser in Essen on October, 16. The arrival of the guests at the Wartburg is one of Wagner's best pieces of music. - wish you all the best -
I have no doubt that German culture makes a different, but the biggest difference is simply that your audience would never be offered many of the operas on my list--here or anywhere else. My approach is not to second guess what a "beginner" is or wants, but simply to offer a range of possibilities and let them listen and choose. I think the results would surprise you very much. I knew almost all of later Wagner before I saw Dutchman, for example, and I thought it was one of the most musically empty and annoying pieces I'd ever heard. Later I came to like it better, but as a first opera, I know I would have hated it. Anyway, thank you for your thoughts.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Dear Dave, I have completely understood your concept. Maybe European Culture would have better suited. It's interesting that Britten's "The Turn Of The Screw" is often performed here, Händel's "Rinaldo" has become very popular. But we have something special like "Die 3 Groschenoper". Wagner is really something special, my friends adore Parzifal, however, it says nothing to me. I hope you can visit Bach's house of birth and Museum at Eisenach. - wish you all the best -
What should one do if they have no experience with classical music whatsoever? There is so much terminology -- so much music is for dances I've never seen -- I find it hard to know where to start at all. How can I recognize when a piece of music is an aria (besides the title)? Or an allemande? I feel like I'm reading a foreign language -- like Italian or something!
Listen and learn. There is no other way, and it's a very enjoyable process. Just be fearless and pick it up as you go along. That's what all of us did.
Well done. Although I am not an opera newbie, I will take your recommendations seriously. Some of your excellent choices are a bit "heavy". What about the fun factor? Which operas are the most fun to experience?
Having worked in opera houses for the last 40 years, you might not be surprised to hear that I never (EVER!) need to see/hear CARMEN again, but I understand its inclusion in this list. The rest of the operas are all FANTASTIC, and are great choices for exploring this weird and amazing art form. And I have to second your recommendation that if you can’t stand the voice of one of the principals, or simply can’t get into the music or story…..by all means turn it off and move on!
100% agree on the topic on the deceitful nature of the filmed stage production medium. Poor halfway between watching an actual production live and watching a film d'opéra, of which there are good or bad, depending on the work, the care and the genius of the film director.
That is an intersting talk, I must say. And it is, because my steady is (through me) a classic beginner. Always she was crazy with theatre of all kinds, but opera, she thought, would be too heavy for her. Nevertheless, she is curious in all matters of art, so I made some classic experiments with her on the field of opera. And these have been, with very few exceptions not yet tried out, what you suggest. Peter Grimes - did not work well, but it was an awful performance with Kaufmann and a european-trash-staging (the fishermen are workers, Grimes pulls a boat across a highway aso) Salome - needs to be tried out yet (but Bartóks "Bluebeard" worked) Porgy - worked quite well (from the DVD) Carmelites - worked (from the DVD with Nagano conducting), but not at the first time; the duet and the finale worked, and afterwards she wanted to listen to the whole thing again Gianni (first from the Glyndebourne-DVD, then live) - worked very well Bride - needs to be tried out yet Wagner - doesn't work, she finds his music just "so unsympathetic as the man was" Jenufa - worked very well as all Janacek we have tried out (Vixen, Makropulos; partly DVD, partly live); she said, this are operas she can perfectly deal, because they are more theatre than opera. But the best, as you probably can imagine, have been Carmen and Rigoletto (always live). These two she wants to see and listen rather often. Congratulations to your list - you see, it works not just in theory.
Thank you so, so much Dave, for this wonderful series, and this particular subject. Thank you for your choices, which made my heart fill; how my heart would fill once more if this were a list of the 10 greatest operas full stop - for beginners or not! (What a joy for me personally to see no Mozart, no bel canto operas, no Baroque operas, only one Verdi opera and only one Puccini opera - and, the last being something from "Il Trittico"!) My smile grew with each one you mentioned - all of them should be the standard repertoire in my view. But more importantly, thank you as much as anything for your reasoning, for explaining to us your thoughts; I fell that they are not just a guide for how to approach opera, but having dwelt on your talk for a few hours now, I feel that they are a guide for what all of us, experienced listeners or not, should be valuing in an opera - the originality of plot, the structure, the excising of artificial conventions for the sake of clarity. I for one beamed at your explanation of "Salome", which has long been my choice for the greatest opera ever; it is as you say, a tone poem. I think it is Strauss's finest tone poem, and therefore structurally it is the greatest opera ever, and therefore the greatest opera ever. But not only is "Salome" a masterpiece, it is so wonderfully accessible; how Strauss takes the listener by the hand from the First Scene, makes clear to the listener his material, clearly differentiates each character, and gives them a musical arc as nuanced as their dramatic arc (and different from it) - and all able to be heard in real time! Surely, personal opinion aside, one of the greatest ever. OK, sorry for the outpouring - I just had to express my gratitude somehow!
If I'm honest, I don't give a fudge about the story in an opera. It's all about the music - whether it has me dancing about the living room or sobbing in the kitchen while I pour another vodka. Thanks Dave.
Hey Bent, your comment had me laughing as I too am that gal who dances in the living room. Drinks double vodka mixed with chocolate milk along with a huge dollop of ice cream. Dependent on level of difficulty (think simplest as possible) I carry a brush as my faux microphone while staring in the mirror, I lip sync with all the hand gestures, the overly wide mouth, so dramatic. I missed my calling. Now with Peter Grimes in the background, the vodka has travelled from the kitchen to a spot on the couch beside me. Enjoy the operas, however quirky.
An interesting and unusual list. I'd only like to add my own feeling that it's preferable these days to get acquainted with these works on recording first, something I might not have said 20-30 years ago. It's not going to help the newbie to go to hear Carmen expecting Bizet's story only to find the director has decided it would be much better to make it about the cryptocurrency exchange market or that the Kostelnicka should kill both Jenufa and the baby and snag Laca for herself because it's traditional on the planet Baxia where the opera now has been set. Opera is first and foremost a musical form based on human feelings, journeys and emotions--even when the characters are gods and mermaids--and a good absorbed listen with libretto and/or score close by for reference does wonders. You can enjoy and laugh with Puccini over Gianni Schicchi without puzzling over why the characters could possibly get a hand amputated and be exiled because the director has decided it should be set in 1950s Italy--or the rust belt or midtown Manhattan--instead of the 13th century Florence the creators imagined.
Interesting that after repeated admonitions, people still insist on doing what you specifically asked them not to do, like a bunch of recalcitrant children.
I think if people write a comment, it's because they had a nice experience of listening to some piece that may not be on the list, but it´s stuck in their memory...and want to inspire some random person and expect that maybe someone else may feel something similar experience and possibly the piece will be played more often, because the composers deserve it. G. Schwarz shared year ago some article about his opinion of forgotten American composers. ....but probably don't expect that it's necessarily better than any other piece said previously. Even if they are just beginners. It's about giving inspiration, not about "social media clicks" for most people.
Interesting that there's no Mozart, and I would quite agree with that for beginners. There's nothing like 3 hours of Marriage of Figaro to make the novice fall asleep and never return. Sure, Mozart is great/incomparable/genius/perfection etc etc, but those operas are damn long and confusing.
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Rheingold: BIG YES!
This was the first on-stage opera for my 7yr old son, and he just loved it. Despite it was in German that he does not understand, he could follow it. You could follow the words in Hungarian (and English!) on a built-in translator pad as a compartment to your chair; but even he could not read! So I just showed the translator to my phone, had an app to read out loud the text it sees, and he had earplugs from the phone to tell him the libretto. We did not disturb anybody in the opera house. And it worked SO-SO well!
He loved the story, but also the music. Actually, we heard the music first in my car. We arrived before the end of the Rheingold, but he was so much interested that we had to wait the end of the music in the car (+ 10 minutes).
After having seen the opera, we gave it another hearing in the car, for my surprise, he could just recognize the music, and while we were hearing it, he just told me exactly what is going on, who does what and who tells what at the instant. It was a great-great experience.
160 minutes at once: it was not an issue for him.
He was so much into it that he also wanted to come with me to Siegfried together as his second opera. :)
Interesting list! Years ago, I had a friend ask me what I thought a good starter opera was, even though I explained I didn't really have all that much experience with opera myself at that stage. I remember her saying "I'd really like to get into opera a little bit, but I just don't know where to begin. There's so much!" I then suggested "Carmen" (when it was your first suggestion, this all came back to me and I had a big smile on my face.) She asked "Why "Carmen"?", and I said, "Because you already know the music more than you think you do." I then loaned her my recording - Solti on Decca - and she confirmed later that this was exactly her experience - she was amazed at all the principle tunes she knew - she was so enthused and pleased! She LOVED it. It wasn't the intimidating ordeal she was anticipating, and it made for a pleasurable first experience. Simply put, she realized listening to opera wasn't particularly "hard". I also suggested, "A good thing to do is to start listening to the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts when you have the time - it doesn't matter so much if you don't really know what they're singing about - just listen to it like you'd listen to anything - it's broadcast on Saturday afternoons, and you can listen while doing things around the house - and that will get the idiom in your ears and into your subconscious. Then whenever you hear something you like, seek it out and listen with both ears." A few years later - I was asking HER for recommendations! She took to it like a duck to water, just by letting the music in. People have a tendency to think they need to have more knowledge going in than they really do - not just with opera, but any classical music - they get a little browbeaten and intimidated - all self-inflicted. People are shy of listening to something cold - they don't trust their own ears because they feel at sea. The trick is not to care that you're at sea. "What if I don't like it??" Answer: "Turn it off! You will not die!!" Like your t-shirt says - "Keep on listening" - eventually the music will seep into your head and listening will get easier and more automatic. I'm in love with this channel and have been gorging myself on it for several days now. Great discussion, as usual.
Thank you for this splendid comment! You've summed it all up so well.
I started as a teenager with Verdi's Nabucco. Nothing better on stage than those slaves singing their heart out.
100% agree! Carmen is *the ideal* first opera. I recently took my flatmate and a friend of his from South Africa, neither of whom have any background with classical music or opera, to see Carmen in Vienna and they both loved it and were humming the tunes for days.
These 10 operas are sooooo accessible. My first live opera at age 12 was Jenufa (in English). That started a lifelong affair with the genre. Evidently a budding conductor arrived in a state of ecstasy at Mahler’s office with the score of Tristan. Mahler took the Tristan score and handed him the score of Carmen, telling him to learn Bizet’s opera first! Strauss, at the first orchestral rehearsal in Dresden , described Salome as “a scherzo with a fatality”.
No screaming here. I think Salome is one of the trashiest things ever written - trashy characters (straight off the Jerry Springer show) and trashy (magnificent) music. I guess that's why I LOVE it so much. It's great!
"Dialogues" - final scene is utterly devastating. I sang in 2 productions as a chorus member. It left most of us in tears at every performance, and also at most rehearsals.
Excellent list. I have been going to the opera for about 60 years and think these are well chosen. A very good friend of mine vowed never to see an opera. I finally got him to see Peter Grimes and he came out saying "what a story!" He also loved the interludes. Became a fan after that.
Why not encourage him to attend a Gilbert & Sullivan performance? Newcomers to opera can feel at ease because of the tuneful, melodious scores. Also, English-speakers can relate to these operas easily.
Totally respect and agree with your description of Jenufa. i was blessed to see a live performance by The New Zealand Opera and it was fabulous!
My first opera in an opera house was Rigoletto. It worked marvelously. I was so much amused by Monterone! Oh, it was so much my favourite part! And Rigoletto's monolouges, all of them - it helped me so much while being a victim of school bullying. I was something like 10 yrs then. The rest is history.
Gianni Schicchi is such a fun piece, you WILL laugh, and who doesn't love doing that?
I'm a piano crazy by nature and only just starting at this point of my life to explore opera, and some of the first I ever listened to all the way through are here, with Porgy and Bess, Jenufa, and Das Rheingold. Absolute slam dunk choices, everyone. I sat in my office space at work weeping to Jenufa, what a miraculous piece.
Carmen is a perfect opera for beginners. It's packed with gorgeous, dramatic/lyrical melodies.. It's also one of the few operas with a very good story and interesting characters. My favorite Carmen is Von Karajan's with Leontyne Price, Franco Corelli and the Vienna Philharmonic. Pryce's smoky-voiced Carmen is a sexy, manipulative, ruthlesss vixen, Corelli sings with his usual passion and his Don Jose utterly adores Carmen. The other soloists and chorus are great and Von Karajan's conducting is glorious from start to finish.
This selection of Operas has been a chore to slog through but I am glad I am doing it. I have now listened/watched 5 of the selections. I had to break down Peter Grimes into the 3 Acts in order to finish it. The only vocals that stuck in my head was their constant singing of his name, "Peter Grimes"..... Not sure I enjoyed the story since not much to enjoy about child abuse but I was interested enough to watch the whole thing. Next up on the misery train was Dialogues of the Carmelites and the mass murder of a covenant of nuns. I did watch this in one sitting, and since dumb me did not pick up that this was the French Revolution, I kept waiting to find out what the nuns would do was so bad that they would be executed only to learn they did nothing but were casualties of the excess of the Church hierarchy that turned the revolutionists against the Church. Again, the story kept me watching and the Orchestration was great but I fell no great need to hear the songs/Arias again. The most successful of the Operas for me was the last one I watched, The Bartered Bride. I watched a version that was staged like it was the 50's and I found the whole presentation delightful. There were song stand out performances and songs but not sure I will listen to a recording. However, if given a chance to see any of the 5 so far live, I think I would pick either Carmen or The Bartered Bride.
This is cool. I like to watch operas with acting and (if in a foreign language), subtitles. To me, hearing a recording without seeing the opera acted and without subtitles would be like me going to a restaurant and ordering a meal and, instead of eating the meal, the waiter explains the ingredients and how they are prepared and I’m paying for an explanation instead of food. My dad used to listen to operas, one of them bring Carmen. He’d walk around the house, waving a knife around (to get into the mood of the music) and smile. I knew it was his deviant fun so it didn’t bother me.
Great selections! Two of my favorites are included (Carmelites and Peter Grimes), and Das Rheingold is an inspired choice. My introduction to opera was from Met radio broadcasts in in 1950s. I didn't go deeply until I started watching dvds. The subtitles helped, and I enjoy the theatrical aspects as well as the music. And there are some singers nowadays who can actually act, and who are attractive, too. For some beginners, this might be a way into opera.
I consider myself a beginner. Two years ago I decided to listen 50 operas in blue ray. From several sources and recommendations I wrote a list of near 100, and started to buy what was available. I think the intersection between your list and mine is no more than 3 or 4 operas. I have bought almost 40 and listened about 35. I will add your recommendations to my list. Thank you for the list and the explanations.
I was initially surprised that you picked Peter Grimes but once I listened to your explanation it made a lot of sense. I was fortunate to have seen Peter Grimes with Jon Vickers in the title role. It was a phenomenal experience both theatrically and musically.
I have to agree that these are interesting. My first opera experiences were TV broadcasts on Sunday afternoon in the 1950's. Salome, Don Giovanni and Love of Three Kings. Got me interested, though Salome was a bit much for a 9 year old. So, I think that anything that grabs interest is important.
I would love to see a list of sadistic Operas to take first time non-opera goers to in order to turn them off to going to Opera forever. I took an Austrian friend to a schleppy performance of Parsifal at the Vienna State Opera once. He wanted to go. He said "I hope no one ever does this me again" after the performance.
I have several friends who also felt that way after seeing Parsifal. I don't blame them a bit.
Shocked!!!! Just Shocked you didn’t include….. just kidding. A very well thought out list. And I love that Porgy and Bess made the list. It just gushes out beautiful melodies nonstop from beginning to end… it’s a great selection for “listening” without having to see it. Salome is another excellent example of a “listen-able” opera without having to see it. The music is fire!!!
Bizet died before he knew that Carmen would be a success. Except that he did.
I think your list is perfection.
A really great list! I particularly liked your inclusion of Das Rheingold. I wish Wagner had kept Loge as on on stage character. He kept things moving and added just enough humor to offset Wotan (who Anna Russell deemed a horrible bore). As to the rest of the list: Right on!
A very well-done and original list! And I think that including "Das Rheingold" is brilliant. FYI,
The Ride of the Valkyries is not my favorite Wagner, it's not my favorite music of the Ring, it's not my favorite music of "Die Walkuere", it's not even my favorite part of Act 3!
Bravo Dave- you are a brave man! Yes [we] opera people are completely nuts, and love it! Thank you!
My mother was not at all a classical music listener, and she only went with me to one opera in her life, and it was Salome. (in a semi-staged performance with the Boston Symphony). Anyway, I wasn’t quite sure what she was making of it as her first experience of opera. Then, at the the dramatic climax of the work, then they carry in the head of John the Baptist on a platter, she leaned over to me and whispered, “I thought at least it would be on a bed of lettuce…”
That's a great line. I always though a Jello mold would be interesting.
Afterwards, she said (about the dance of the seven veils), “She had no business stripping.” Yeah, it was Hildegard Behrens. 😂 But she was deeply impressed by the mass of orchestral sound. As I’m sure you know Symphony Hall is a torture chamber… but at least the acoustics are incomparable
Dear Mr Hurwitz!
I would like to ask you to consider to make a talk about all Janáček's operas in the order you think are the best. It would also be interesting to know if you believe that the operas all are equally good.
Best wishes Fred.
My introduction was Aarre Merikanto's Juha. It's a powerful opera and most importantly, sung in my native language which helped.
Oh God, I bought that version of Salome on video without even knowing what that opera was about, the kissing scene was one the most grotesque scenes I've ever seen. You are totally correct on saying it is creepy. Great list!
I got into it with Terry Teachout, who was the WSJ drama critic, about the relevance of Wagner. We were in college together, played piano duets, debated the meaning of life. I don't remember how the discussion started on Facebook, but I said Wagner was still very relevant to culture. He said, That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! (or something to that effect). I said, Look at the Marvel movies. You'd never have most of those without Wagner. He didn't concede. But then he died, so Wotan had obviously had quite enough of him, gave a wave of his hand, and sent Brunnhilde to clean up the mess.
CARMELITES may be my favorite opera. A video of John Dexter's beautiful, stark production for the Met is, I believe, available on demand on its website.
Dave's lists are always good... excellent that is. Bought the Poulenc one recently and liked it much. The operas on this list are so diverse and will stretch anyone. My own love goes for Salome. It's based on a play by Oscar Wilde after all.
Great choices Dave! Love that you picked some more obscure (but equally worthy) operas like Gianni Schicchi and not just Tosca, Butterfly or Boheme (even though the latter was my introduction to opera and I'm not complaining).
I'd say the Flying Dutchman is also fairly fast in Wagnerian terms and not too self-indulgent, decent entrance to Wagner. But I think I started with Rheingold.
Engaging, charming and educational as always ❤
For me, opera sure was an acquired taste. I always recommend starting by finding a plot that interests you. This is a great list. I saw your previous video about Jenufa and now I’m in love!
This list is almost identical to one I was asked for by a curious friend some years ago. Very glad to hear my opinion backed by a competent authority. Couldn't agree more about Rheingold especially! All those little songlets that pop up and disappear poof, like that. They're undeniable. And as for Rigoletto, there is probably no better portal for the neophyte to such august operatic set pieces as mistaken identity, disguises, listening at keyholes, unworldly damsels being misused, ugly scoundrels getting their comeuppance, and more!
Wonderful video!
See right away they're all compelling stories (exc Rheingold, which is at least compact)
My almost 5 year old daughter is completely hooked to the Rheingold. For a year now. And it's not just the music. the action is more important to her, I guess
I decided to make a list of these 10 and I am going to slowly work on them over time. I have made the decision to watch each one first and then listen to the ones I liked again in recording format. I actually saw the 1984 Carmen movie with Placido Domingo at a movie theater in London and that is/was my only opera experience. I decided to start with the Strauss. I watched on youtube the "BOLOGNA, 2010" which was recorded live from the Teatro Comunale di Bologna. I picked that version because it had English subtitles and my TV could stream it in 4k and Dolby Atmos. No fake blood or head but there was nudity and Jochanaan was played by a Black man covered in what looked like white chaulk which was interesting. Now I am familiar with the piece, I will listen to a recording so I can focus more on the music. Not sure which one I will try next but I am going to wait a few days before moving on.
The Bartered Bride: my dad - who was fond of words and their use and deliberate misuse - always called THIS "The Battered Bride", and means that Smetana's work would probably NOT have been a comedy - unless it was set in a fish shop...
That's Janacek's Jenufa.
I’m entirely in agreement with you on the point of DVD recordings of full opera productions. Almost invariably, I’d rather just listen to a CD set. Until now I’ve been wondering if I’m the sole constituent of a minority.
As regards your choices: what beats a first listening to Peter Grimes? Oh, it’s sooooooo much fun!! I love it every time I hear it, but my first was truly incredible. I just love Britten as an opera composer.
Funny, you’ve selected just about all the works I showed my father when I was trying to get him into classical music. Noise is his thing in music, and there’s plenty of it in these magnificent operas. I use the word “noise” with incredible affection.
I love Suor Angelica. I know it’s the “worst” in its trilogy, but the music is just…so…gorgeous! The aria Senza Mamma is one of the great arias that nobody talks about.
I don’t blame you at all for not liking children’s choruses in operas. They really can be irritating, not least because they are often colorless and out-of-tune.
Rigoletto was the first opera I saw live. As I walked out of the theater, I couldn’t believe what I had just heard. I couldn’t believe music, especially vocal music, could sound like that. Oh, and the string accompaniment in “Si, Vendetta!” is just about the most amazing thing, or so I think while I’m listening to it, every time.
I hope your list gets plenty of people into opera, Dave! It’s a great list! I love that it isn’t conventional.
By the way, I had no idea that Schubert people are so explosive! Ha ha! Sorry for all the run-ins you’ve had with classical crazies over the years.
I never understood opera (as a total orchestral music addict since elementary school) and found it too long, boring, or pretentious. THEN I saw a couple of in-person performances of the Vienna State Opera doing Aida and Tosca. Wow!
Looking forward to going through this list, and to playing more opera up in Anchorage this season. Thanks!!
(Also, Salome is the first opera I was exposed to in college music history that blew my mind open. Not an uncommon experience I'm sure.)
Totally agree that Das Rheingold is the best introduction to Wagner. I imprinted on Solti ( very cinematic). I also remember how disappointed I was , at first, with Walkure. It moved so slowly and where were the giants, Loge, Thor ?😮
I had the same experience and I thought it was just me. I remember thinking what a bore Siegmund was and... well, he is. 😄 I still have a soft spot for Rheingold, but nowadays Walküre is my favourite of all operas.
David, so right about reading the libretto before you listen, or at least AS you listen (if you can do that.... ) The BIG problem is that nowadays the CD companies don't bother including the text in its original language or translation(s). Those beautiful old LP sets with their gorgeous legible booklets are a thing of the past. There was a while when Decca and DG and EMI provided links to downloadable versions, but those seem also to have disappeared.... Great list by the way. There is NOTHING funnier than Gianni Schicchi! And Rigoletto (my first serious opera experience) was THE opera which made me want to work in the art form for ever.
That is an issue for me. In CD and LP booklets the libretto is in small print. It's bad for the eyes and your sight can be ruined.
Also, for people whose master language is English, it would help if they could read along with a line-by-line translation of the libretto.
Absolutely excellent list.
Glad you think so!
I posted on another Beginners video about finding Sibelius’ Pelleas and Melisande to be one of the first classical pieces to hook me. Then I went to learn more about the Pelleas and Melisande craze in the late nineteenth-early twentieth century. There’s Fauré and Schoenberg chiming in. Then Debussy writes the opera for it.
This one is not an opera for beginners. Trust me.
Another great review. Spent half the weekend listening to or re-listening to these. I'm about as young as you are Dave, and have been an obsessive collector of music, mostly rock, since my early youth and really didn't get into classical music until about 20 years ago. Which sounds like a long time but I really didn't realize how much of a beginner I was until I started watching these videos.
Just out of curiosity, I wonder if most of your other viewers consider themselves to be beginners and how old they were when they started on the bottomless pit that is classical music.
I heard Das Rheingold as my first Wagner opera. Fore it was boring in first listening especially in the Nibelungen scene. But after listening to many recordings and focusing on the music, it was just marvelous. I still haven't heard the complete ring cycle though because I have no time.
A thoughtful, useful list! I wonder if you'll say more about how immediately alienating classical singing can sound to beginners. I am a devoted opera fan, but remember having to get used to the timbre of operatic declamation when I started out. Along with the organ and harpsichord (an instrument I only barely tolerate), classical voice presents timbral barriers to musical enjoyment. I wonder if technique adapted to the microphone (which, as someone had it, "made singers of us all") might sometimes be welcome in some repertoire. For example, I think Handel's Hercules would sound marvelously if expressed with the detail and intimacy only the microphone allows.
Great list Dave! There’s a lot of variety here, while also leaving a lot of masterpieces to be discovered (no Mozart or Rossini!).
When my wife and I were first dating, her first introductions to opera were Eugene Onegin and Turandot - this met with mixed success, though she still loves Onegin to this day.
For me, Das Rheingold was my intro to Wagner and it kicked off my lifelong love of the composer. It might be Wagner’s least pretentious opera - not saying much! But I can’t say Parsifal would have had the same effect…
My first Wagner opera was The Flying Dutchman; I wish it had been Das Rheingold. Rheingold's a complete story by itself, feels the most like mythology, and explores Wagner's thematic conflict of love vs power/greed with less problems that came with Wagner being his own librettist.
Dear Dave,, greetings from Germany, near Cologne. Jacques Offenbach was born in Cologne and not far away is Bonn (Beethoven) and Siegburg (Engelbert Humperdinck) - In 2013 the BBC published a magazine "50 Great Works to build your classical Music CD Library", to my surprise it included Hänsel and Gretel, Peter Grimes was one of the operas you also mentioned.
No criticism from my side but a differentiation, maybe this has to do because you are highly competent.
No comment on the operas you've enumerated, they are all great.
Perhaps my differentiation is based on the word beginners, this is a bit ambiguous. Do you mean somebody who finally shows a bit of interest in operas or is it someone who is atttached to classical music already but not so much on operas. I doubt if some of these operas are good for beginners.
I have done a lot of research, always ask people from the audience "How did your interest in operas start.?" No doubt, German culture plays an important role.
You are right, Carmen and Rigoletto are often mentioned, but basically on the list are "Die Zauberflöte", "Die Entführung aus dem Serail," Hänsel und Gretel (often watched by school classes though it is no opera for children), Beethoven's Fidelio and Der Freischütz Weber), Aida.
Der Freischütz is often taught in our schools, the main reason is that the Ouverture includes a lot of motifs that can easily be identified by beginners.
Interesting for you, we had some Bayreuth experts on TV and they said the easiest approach to Wagner is "Der Fliegende Holländer."
Two years ago I saw a Flying Dutchman performance and afterwards I met two women, they told me: "Never again Wagner for us". And one of them was even informed and said "And this is the opera experts recommend for beginners?" - I was stunned.
In 2002 I myself was on stage, "Rhinegold" in Cologne. I was a Niblung and was kicked by Alberich when i collected pieces of gold. By the way, the conductor was the great Kent Nagano.
As first opera for Beginners I always recommend Lortzing's Zar und Zimmermann, with the catchy Clog dance. You can watch this on You Tube.
I have no favourite opera but a favourite aria: "Einsam in trüben Tagen" by Elsa in Lohengrin.
Next opera for me to watch is Tannhäuser in Essen on October, 16. The arrival of the guests at the Wartburg is one of Wagner's best pieces of music. - wish you all the best -
I have no doubt that German culture makes a different, but the biggest difference is simply that your audience would never be offered many of the operas on my list--here or anywhere else. My approach is not to second guess what a "beginner" is or wants, but simply to offer a range of possibilities and let them listen and choose. I think the results would surprise you very much. I knew almost all of later Wagner before I saw Dutchman, for example, and I thought it was one of the most musically empty and annoying pieces I'd ever heard. Later I came to like it better, but as a first opera, I know I would have hated it. Anyway, thank you for your thoughts.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Dear Dave, I have completely understood your concept. Maybe European Culture would have better suited. It's interesting that Britten's "The Turn Of The Screw" is often
performed here, Händel's "Rinaldo" has become very popular. But we have something special like "Die 3 Groschenoper".
Wagner is really something special, my friends adore Parzifal, however, it says nothing to me.
I hope you can visit Bach's house of birth and Museum at Eisenach. - wish you all the best -
I’ve got into opera recently mainly Mozart & Verdi. I’m still having problems with Wagner as it always gives me a headache after half an hour or so.
Join the club!
What should one do if they have no experience with classical music whatsoever? There is so much terminology -- so much music is for dances I've never seen -- I find it hard to know where to start at all. How can I recognize when a piece of music is an aria (besides the title)? Or an allemande? I feel like I'm reading a foreign language -- like Italian or something!
Listen and learn. There is no other way, and it's a very enjoyable process. Just be fearless and pick it up as you go along. That's what all of us did.
Well done. Although I am not an opera newbie, I will take your recommendations seriously. Some of your excellent choices are a bit "heavy". What about the fun factor? Which operas are the most fun to experience?
These are.
Having worked in opera houses for the last 40 years, you might not be surprised to hear that I never (EVER!) need to see/hear CARMEN again, but I understand its inclusion in this list. The rest of the operas are all FANTASTIC, and are great choices for exploring this weird and amazing art form. And I have to second your recommendation that if you can’t stand the voice of one of the principals, or simply can’t get into the music or story…..by all means turn it off and move on!
100% agree on the topic on the deceitful nature of the filmed stage production medium. Poor halfway between watching an actual production live and watching a film d'opéra, of which there are good or bad, depending on the work, the care and the genius of the film director.
I'm surprised Gianni Schicchi made it over Tosca and La Boheme
Good.
So will we get an Ideal List of Janacek operas? 🙂
No. There aren't enough recordings to choose from for most of them.
That is an intersting talk, I must say. And it is, because my steady is (through me) a classic beginner. Always she was crazy with theatre of all kinds, but opera, she thought, would be too heavy for her. Nevertheless, she is curious in all matters of art, so I made some classic experiments with her on the field of opera. And these have been, with very few exceptions not yet tried out, what you suggest.
Peter Grimes - did not work well, but it was an awful performance with Kaufmann and a european-trash-staging (the fishermen are workers, Grimes pulls a boat across a highway aso)
Salome - needs to be tried out yet (but Bartóks "Bluebeard" worked)
Porgy - worked quite well (from the DVD)
Carmelites - worked (from the DVD with Nagano conducting), but not at the first time; the duet and the finale worked, and afterwards she wanted to listen to the whole thing again
Gianni (first from the Glyndebourne-DVD, then live) - worked very well
Bride - needs to be tried out yet
Wagner - doesn't work, she finds his music just "so unsympathetic as the man was"
Jenufa - worked very well as all Janacek we have tried out (Vixen, Makropulos; partly DVD, partly live); she said, this are operas she can perfectly deal, because they are more theatre than opera.
But the best, as you probably can imagine, have been Carmen and Rigoletto (always live). These two she wants to see and listen rather often.
Congratulations to your list - you see, it works not just in theory.
Thank you. That's great to know.
I hope they don't skip Carmen.
Thank you so, so much Dave, for this wonderful series, and this particular subject. Thank you for your choices, which made my heart fill; how my heart would fill once more if this were a list of the 10 greatest operas full stop - for beginners or not! (What a joy for me personally to see no Mozart, no bel canto operas, no Baroque operas, only one Verdi opera and only one Puccini opera - and, the last being something from "Il Trittico"!) My smile grew with each one you mentioned - all of them should be the standard repertoire in my view.
But more importantly, thank you as much as anything for your reasoning, for explaining to us your thoughts; I fell that they are not just a guide for how to approach opera, but having dwelt on your talk for a few hours now, I feel that they are a guide for what all of us, experienced listeners or not, should be valuing in an opera - the originality of plot, the structure, the excising of artificial conventions for the sake of clarity. I for one beamed at your explanation of "Salome", which has long been my choice for the greatest opera ever; it is as you say, a tone poem. I think it is Strauss's finest tone poem, and therefore structurally it is the greatest opera ever, and therefore the greatest opera ever. But not only is "Salome" a masterpiece, it is so wonderfully accessible; how Strauss takes the listener by the hand from the First Scene, makes clear to the listener his material, clearly differentiates each character, and gives them a musical arc as nuanced as their dramatic arc (and different from it) - and all able to be heard in real time! Surely, personal opinion aside, one of the greatest ever.
OK, sorry for the outpouring - I just had to express my gratitude somehow!
Wow! Thank you.
Please adopt me
If I'm honest, I don't give a fudge about the story in an opera. It's all about the music - whether it has me dancing about the living room or sobbing in the kitchen while I pour another vodka. Thanks Dave.
Hey Bent, your comment had me laughing as I too am that gal who dances in the living room. Drinks double vodka mixed with chocolate milk along with a huge dollop of ice cream. Dependent on level of difficulty (think simplest as possible) I carry a brush as my faux microphone while staring in the mirror, I lip sync with all the hand gestures, the overly wide mouth, so dramatic. I missed my calling.
Now with Peter Grimes in the background, the vodka has travelled from the kitchen to a spot on the couch beside me. Enjoy the operas, however quirky.
@@ninamusic1123 😆
An interesting and unusual list. I'd only like to add my own feeling that it's preferable these days to get acquainted with these works on recording first, something I might not have said 20-30 years ago. It's not going to help the newbie to go to hear Carmen expecting Bizet's story only to find the director has decided it would be much better to make it about the cryptocurrency exchange market or that the Kostelnicka should kill both Jenufa and the baby and snag Laca for herself because it's traditional on the planet Baxia where the opera now has been set.
Opera is first and foremost a musical form based on human feelings, journeys and emotions--even when the characters are gods and mermaids--and a good absorbed listen with libretto and/or score close by for reference does wonders. You can enjoy and laugh with Puccini over Gianni Schicchi without puzzling over why the characters could possibly get a hand amputated and be exiled because the director has decided it should be set in 1950s Italy--or the rust belt or midtown Manhattan--instead of the 13th century Florence the creators imagined.
Very good points!
Interesting that after repeated admonitions, people still insist on doing what you specifically asked them not to do, like a bunch of recalcitrant children.
Sigh...
I think if people write a comment, it's because they had a nice experience of listening to some piece that may not be on the list, but it´s stuck in their memory...and want to inspire some random person and expect that maybe someone else may feel something similar experience and possibly the piece will be played more often, because the composers deserve it. G. Schwarz shared year ago some article about his opinion of forgotten American composers.
....but probably don't expect that it's necessarily better than any other piece said previously.
Even if they are just beginners.
It's about giving inspiration, not about "social media clicks" for most people.
Interesting that there's no Mozart, and I would quite agree with that for beginners. There's nothing like 3 hours of Marriage of Figaro to make the novice fall asleep and never return. Sure, Mozart is great/incomparable/genius/perfection etc etc, but those operas are damn long and confusing.
For me, going to a Mozart opera is like having salad for lunch. I don't mind it now and then but it often leaves me slightly unsatisfied.