Let's be honest here we didn't see the end of the fighting between Mael and Meliodas Also, we didn't see Mael in his full power even though most fans of the series wanted to see it happen and I was one of them.But in the end, the writer decided to give all the glory to Escanor and made Mael a coward
We didn't see the end of the fight between Meliodas and Mael because Mael ran, which is sad. I wanted to see Mael's full power too, but considering his lack of confidence in it, I really wonder how impressive it would be.
@@thatguywithapencil Who said that he is not sure of his strength, if you hint at chapter 317 when he told Escanor that he does not think he can fight the demon king this happened because the writer wanted to give all the glory to Escanor because he is one of the main characters, so he made Mael look like a coward and I really hated what the writer did to him
@@alidahab9893 Because in the end it's just a matter of opinion on who is stronger.Even though I see more meliodas wanking then mael which isn't fair when meliodas powers were more explored then maels (we didn't even se mael near noon or noon form).But hey it's fun to speculate about it.Have a nice day
Maybe Mael was in his late afternoon state when his powers were decreasing by every minute, so that's why probably Mael retreated against Prime Meliodas
It is a possibility, a pure 50/50. I lean towards the idea that it was morning, as they equaled out around noon, because they are considered equals at their peaks, but no one would know that unless they actually fought at their peaks.
@@lukelokesh8681 You can't because it wasn't stated that they were equal at noon.The whole holy war arc dosen't make sense what stoped mael from obliterating the demon clan with his noon form or what stoped meliodas from obliterating the godess clan with his op hakai power.Mael and Meliodas were stated to be equal who was stronger betwen them it's up to debate both sides have good points and both sides have "special" people that attack other people opinion on their favorite character.Have a nice day
@@dinisjazz hmm you're right but meliodas unlocked his hakai magic power in the 4th war not the previous one where he and mael were said to be equals. Tho I think One Mael is stronger than AM Meliodas but not against Destroyer magic meliodas. It won't make sense that the SD had a warrior who's stronger than her at high noon, using her own power(tho I have a separate theory of Maels usage and power from sunshine than Escanor's)
@@lukelokesh8681 The one mode lasts one minute so what kind of threat would mael be to the supreme diety,it's possible that mael in the one mode posseses power that rivals the supreme diety but it dosen't last long.I've seen people theorize that sunshine affects escanor and mael diffrently.Mael is the og wielder of sunshine can use it to it's maximum and it dosen't affect him negatively like it does to escanor.Escanor isn't made to handle sunshine,sunshine for him was in fact a burden a sicknes that slowly ate away at his body until he died.Mael is already buffed so he dosen't get such a physical boost then escanor who's a scrawny human.Can you explain me the mechanics of mel op hakai power is it connected to his demon king form with those arm tentacles, can he use it in a fight immediatly like zeldris omnious nebula, how could he delete his power in the aftermath of demon king zeldris fight did he get the power as a result of the purgatory training arc or was he born with it ? Have a nice day
Escanor's the One Ultimate is a dying human (humans having the shortest lifespans of all species in the series) using his lifeforce to make it last as long as it did, but Mael's the One Ultimate isn't killing him because the grace is in a compatible body and angels have the longest lifespan so theoretically if Mael used his lifeforce to fuel the One Ultimate like Escanor did, he could potentially pull a win.
@@thatguywithapencil plus prime melodies power lvl is at 147,479 the leader of the ark a is lucidly power lvl is 200,000 to 210,000 which is stronger than melodies meal is at 365,000 not including the one
The initial Assault Mode Meliodas power level is not accurate to his true strength. He is stronger than Zeldris, as admitted by Zeldris himself and shown to us. Zeldris managed to bully a late morning Escanor, Merlin, and Magaret Body Ludociel, with at least Ludociel having a higher power level 201,000. Then, for the Original Demon gap in power, Zeldris does way better against Mael than the Original Demon did, managed to hold off against King who was about to one shot the Original Demon, and Meliodas is still stronger. Then you have the time these two actually fought and Mael ran from Meliodas. The 142,000 is outdated.
mate, I think you forgot that mael holded back while fighting zeldris. Mael was even able to damage zeldris using magical attacks, do you even imagine how strong mael would be when compared to zeldris ?? Zeldris would get one shotted if mael wanted to do so.
@@thatguywithapencil as far as i know, it wasn't outdated, i believe meliodas can control his power level while in assault mode, being that his power whilst fighting escanor was actually 142,000. He mainly lost do to his cockiness and not expecting the one, which im pretty sure is 232,000. Also when escanor used the one ultimate his power was around 730,000 im pretty sure. Whilst meliodas assault mode full power is at around 720,000. So taking those stats and putting that onto mael assuming he has everything escanor has but stronger i believe there is a high chance meliodas would survive but struggle against mael the one. But if he used the one ultimate (assuming he has one) i believe he would beat meliodas in a one on one battle
No, it wasn’t an oof. At least I don’t think it was. Meliodas is still older, he was the same age as Elizabeth and Mael is younger than both of them. I think Mael is older than Zel though.
Revenge counter is just giving the amount of damage that he recieved to them, he prob had hate on the commandments when he use it againts them so thats why estarossa stoped him
If even the Goddess and the Demon king feared Meliodas what makes people think a single Archangel was a problem for meliodas? He never went 100% on anyone if he would he would win 100%
@@Nevetyo That's true, which makes me wonder what direction the series would have gone if Meliodas released his True Magic against the Demon King and Supreme Deityin his initial battle with them.
@@thatguywithapencil yes but its still the one. Its like if merlin called meliodas's assault mode "assault mode" but he called it like "super demon mode" it'd still be assault mode.
I would say that yes, when not close to noon Mael would easily lose to Meliodas. When noon is approaching, let's say 30 mins before noon, Mael would start to be at a level when Meliodas can't just easily pound him to scrap. When like 5 mins before noon, Mael would have the upper hand since Mael can use sunshine to it's full potential unlike escanor. Also we saw in Meli vs Escanor fight at the begining, Escanor didn't stand a chance but when very close to moon Escanor's body was strong enough that instead of lostvayne cutting through his body, the blade just barely pierced his body and got stuck. It's such a shame the writers didn't show Mael at full power. I would be interested to think what you would think about this now since after the release of this video we saw afternoon Mael OHKO the original demon (being comprised of chandler and cusack, whose power levels were 172k and 168k respectively if i recall correctly).
I would disagree that Mael could ever beat a serious, considering if Mael was about that action that much, he would have, in character, invaded the Demon Realm and slaughtered Meli and not ran.
@@thatguywithapencil literally surpeme diety is the only one that would slap meliodas during 3k years ago then again meliodas had the "destroyer magic he can use since he always had it" full counter is just a substitute magic. Mael literally was shook and if u pay attention mael sunshine was increasing against bellion. yet meliodas negged the sunshine and wasn't even using assault mode. not only that meliodas wasn't even trying against zeldris and estarossa while mael did struggle with a weaken zeldris with no commandment and was weaken after fighting "The one escanor big factor", merlin and marg ludo
@@thatguywithapencil and then u got the statment of all 4 arch angels feared meliodas. and the statement from the side story of the troll queen(jelamet) saying all the 4 races wouldn't stand a chance against the demon race if meliodas haven't betray the clan
Okay so, The One Mael should be stronger than The One escanor, and he may be on the level of The One Ultimate escanor (note, Even TOU escanor isn't on the level of the DK, as the DK was fighting multiple sins before then and extremely tired). I believe that The One mael should be able to beat assault mode meliodas (prime) but not destroyer meliodas, since his destroyer power should cancel out any attack from mael and TOU escanor doesn't seem to be stronger than him.
@@thatguywithapencil yes there is, because mael has his own goddess power ontop of the one, instead of the one escanor who only had the one's power. And besides ludociel said mael was meliodas's equal so obviously he should beat him at his peak power.
@@ProjektTaku when did ludociel said that mael was melios equal?.... On top of that you need to keep a note on your mind that ludociel is stronger than mael...mael surpasses ludociel near noon... And also in prime meliodas vs prime mael fight... Mael ran away or avoided the fight...because he knew what the result will always be when it comes to facing meliodas head to head...you may say mael ran because of his kind nature... Thats frikkin bull shit... You may ask why....mael was the one who killed the original gowthers gf... If he was that much kind...why he would slay a harmless demon girl? Go and ask your mael why did he ran...is it due to fear? Or he was so kind that he Didn't want to kill melio and ran away...
@@subakiyuga1873 literally every time he mentions mael he mentions him as meliodas's equal or rival, and ludociel never stated that mael only surpassed him at near noon, although that would still not be the peak of his power, only that he couldn't compare during the day, plus it could've been the afternoon, really that whole fight was super vague.
Ngl I feel fucking chad king scale above mael sunshine. the surpeme diety praise king and ban and didn't give a shit about mael other than him being the strongest arch angels which that title doesn't mean shit to be honest in the overrall story
@@thatguywithapencil If mael was stronger he would of kill meliodas and then clap elizabeth cheeks and boom tristan would of been a full goddess instead of a hybrid . sooo mael is not stronger than meliodas end of conclusion
When did he run could someone possibly link me the manga that they fought in ? Also I feel like ludiceal or however you spell his name when he called for help it was more directed towards help me fight meliodas so we can also get to Elizabeth why one v one it when you can have 3 people fight him and possibly stop Elizabeth. Also flash stepping in front of someone doesn’t mean they are faster being distracted or not seeing someone coming can cause someone to flash step in front of someone. Also When mael “died” it also threw the balance off causing the goddess clan to sacrifice their solid forms to seal the demons. See a lot wasn’t mentioned or even takin into consideration I feel, it’s a neat video but also doesn’t feel very accurate. I wanna add one more thing if you look at the brief fight between Meliodas and mael their magic aura was Ying and Yang which leads them to be equal.
imgur.com/a/fIyqVY1 Right in there Mael is repelled in his own realm. That still means Ludociel was not confident in getting past Meliodas himself when Meliodas was only in Demon Mark. If he was comparable or stronger, he wouldn't have asked fro help. And when you flash step in front of Ludociel, the guy whose whole thing is speed, and perception blitz him, when he has already reacted to behind blitzes from lower weaker Demons, I think its very important. Ludociel can sense magic. If he was comparable to Meliodas, who wouldn't have been blitzed. And realize, the only reason Mael mattered was because he was a fighter on the goddess' side. He himself admits it could have been him, his brother, Elizabeth, or Meliodas. Mael isn't Meliodas' equal, he's just another warrior. He's not special. And sorry, it doesn't seem like anything you said proved my video inaccurate. And if they were truly equal, Mael would not have ran.
But I honestly want to see more Taizai vs Naruto type battles or just Taizai vs other random anime's also, or you can do videos talking about certain Taizai characters vs the Akatsuki but do whatever
I have some ideas. Itachi vs Gowther is one that's definitely happening. BOS Ban versus Hidan is another. May slap Madara against somebody, because somehow as a massive Madara fan I haven't even considered a fight for him in Taizai. I'll take any ideas you have too.
I have a question you know how prime meliodas is like 350-368k and can beat mael or something how did escanor's one mode destroy meliodas if meliodas was in assault mode
Meliodas was suppressed and not as his full power in his fight against Escanor. Merlin notes that Meliodas is growing back into his prime self's power even after the loss the Escanor, which shows that Meliodas was not even at Max strength.
@@sandersGG he would still lose against Escanor in that battle. The One Escanor was still much much stronger. His feats against Demon King are too good.
OKAY time to end this agrument Mael is in love with elizabeth right?. why not JuST kill Meliodas and then clap elizabeth cheeks in the goddess realm boom ez tristan would be full goddess.(mael got that judgment techinque which can kill a demon but other races will just feel agony of pain, man got greatest sun omega ark) ez meli dead OR...... they got plenty of them even when meliodas betray his clan and he is Literally in stigma bruh JUST BRING all 4 arch angel and killed the mfer. but nope they would all fucking die if they try that cause it was stated all 4 of them feared that man with him just using demon mark.
@@ProjektTaku U failed to understand the fact meliodas never went out all out on his enemies due to being cocky and he always heavily supressed himsefl and the fact meliodas during the entire holy war the goddess as a whole needed help from other races and still was losing due to the fact of meliodas .
7:44 Assault Mode Meliodas only defeated Escanor there because at that time Escanor was young and unable to control his power. The real The One Escanor is much stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory). He should also be stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas (after purgatory), but not that much. And The One Ultimate Escanor is definitely much stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas (after purgatory) and around the level of True Magic Form Meliodas.
The reason I doubt that is all the times that Meliodas implied to have humbled Escanor after their initial fight, shown by Escanor's own admission, Zeldris, who is standing right in front of the modern One, and should know about his brother's real strength believes that meliodas would win if he took him seriously, and Escanor's lack of rebuffing of Zeldris' statement, when he's in his most proud state of the day. If Escanor could win, he would have said so. And the reason I think AM Post Purg Mel is more comparable to the OU Escanor and True Magic being greater, is because a DM Mel was already swinging even with a prime Demon King with a resolve rebuff. Give him the Assault mode amp, and he's likely doing just as well as Escanor,but didn't want to in fear of destroying Zel's body. And True Magic is stated and or implied multiple times to be in a whole different tier than Assault Mode.
@@thatguywithapencil for the battle against young Escanor there is really not much to say. At that time Escanor couldn't control his power, he probably couldn't even do a simple Cruel Sun or anything. Meliodas defeating him doesn't mean much. Later when Escanor mastered his power we saw how powerful and fast he really is. Assault Mode Meliodas would have lost in their second battle in any case (even if he was holding back or wasn't regained his prime power). The One Escanor is equal to Demon King, and we know that Assault Mode Meliodas before purgatory is nowhere near Demon King. Base Meliodas after purgatory is much stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas before purgatory, and that Base Meliodas is also nowhere near Demon King. Even DM Meliodas after purgatory is still much weaker than Demon King. So The One Escanor would have one shoted prime Assault Mode Meliodas before purgatory in any case. Let's also not forget that Escanor fought with no intention to kill, which also shows his power and control of it. Zeldris's statement doesn't really mean anything, since he had no idea how strong The One Escanor is. At that moment The One Escanor didn't really show his power to Zeldris, so Zeldris only knew about Escanor's showed power against Estarossa. At that moment, Zeldris simply believed that there is no mortal on Meliodas's level, especially not a human, his statement at that moment is normal, but it doesn't really mean anything. Also, even after the battle, Zeldris still couldn't really see full power of The One, because Escanor was only at Full Power against the Demon King. In any case, Zeldris's statement is useless. Also, the fact that Escanor didn't answered to that also doesn't really matter. There were other cases like that. There were also cases when he said he can win, even tho he knew that he can't, like against Original Demon when he was at his weakest. And about DM Meliodas, he fought against prime Demon King yeah, but he couldn't really do anything. Even with the help of Ban, King and others, they together still couldn't do anything against Demon King. While The One Escanor alone was equal to him, and The One Ultimate Escanor completely overpowered him. DM Meliodas has feats similar to base Escanor, but that is it. DM Meliodas is just much much weaker than The One Escanor and Demon King. Assault Mode is a big boost and with it he is probably close to The One Escanor and Demon King, or at max about equal. True Magic Form is much stronger than Assault Mode, just like how The One Ultimate is much stronger than The One. And with those 2 forms both Meliodas and Escanor have either feats or statements to be above prime Demon King. I won't talk about True Magic Form Meliodas vs The One Ultimate Escanor here because I did it in that other big comment on other video. But overall the scaling should be like this: True Magic Form Meliodas>=The One Ultimate Escanor>The One Escanor>=Assault Mode Meliodas (after purgatory)>Base Escanor=DM Meliodas(after purgatory)>Base Meliodas(after purgatory)>Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory).
@drew22w DK literally admitted that The One Escanor is equal to him, and The One Ultimate is obviously much stronger than The One. Just because they worked together at the end doesn't mean that they had to (they joined Escanor because it was his last fight, so they wanted to do it together as friends). Also, Meliodas had to sacrifice his whole True Magic Form to destroy the commandments, and The One Ultimate Escanor was destroying prime Demon King along with the commandments in a real fight. Meliodas and Escanor are around the same level in their strongest forms. Tmf Meliodas=The One Ultimate Escanor>Demon King=Supreme Deity=The One Escanor>Assault Mode Meliodas (post purgatory)>Base Escanor>Demon Mark Meliodas (post purgatory)>Base Meliodas (post purgatory). But in any case, Escanor is much more impressive character overall. After all, he is a human with one Grace, while Meliodas is a demon God with op body and so many advantages, not to mention his purgatory power boosts. Even like that Escanor was mainly always stronger and the overall difference between them is not big, I personally believe that at their prime at full power they are about equal. But then again, imagine Escanor with a better body or purgatory boosts, not to mention both..
This is actually wrong. Escanor was actually STRONGER then because his body was younger and completely undamaged by sunshine at that point. The only reason The One knocked out Meliodas is because he wasnt fighting seriously the second fight and didnt even have his memories for that fight
@SmartAss4123 that is very wrong. Escanor was yound, inexperienced and couldn't control his power when Meliodas defeated him. It doesn't matter that his body was healthy if he couldn't control his power and had no experience. Also, about the second fight, Meliodas was definitely serious (Zeldris statement means nothing because he wasn't there and didn't know how strong Escanor really is). Meliodas used one of his strongest attacks, but couldn't damage Escanor. Then Escanor blitzed him with his attack, even if Meliodas wasn't serious, he wouldn't allow Escanor to blitz and knock him out. Think a little. Another obvious proof... Base Meliodas (after purgatory) is much much stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory). Base Escanor (in the Demon King fight) has feats to be about as strong or stronger than Base/Demon Mark Meliodas (after purgatory). And The One Escanor was equal to Demon King. Overall, even Ban and King far surpassed Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory) and Mael level , not to mention Escanor, especially The One Escanor. Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory) couldn't beat The One Escanor in that fight no matter what. Only True Magic Form Meliodas (after purgatory) can beat The One Escanor (Tmf Meliodas vs The One Ultimate Escanor is debatable). In any case, I don't want to be rude, but I think your general and scaling knowledge is bad. And unfortunately, underrating Escanor and don't understanding his feats and character became normal in the community. I won't reply anymore, have a good day.
Majority saying that demons would beat the goddess. Mel over Mael. Makes sense, the main protagonist of this show is a demon. Also the goddess and archangels were severely nerfed underrated.
Prime meldiodas has a powerlevel of 142,000 right? When he fights escanor in assault mode thats what hawk says. Mael not even at noon 1 shot the original demon who should have a combined power level of 150,000 + 163,000
It mainly depends on which form of meliodas is prime I’d say true magic melly at the ending of the series is prime meliodas but some people wagered and have some accurate suggestions as to king of liones melly being the his peak form as for me i say end of the 7DS anime melly is his peak form not. Commmandment of love melly
I believe prime meliodas in assault mode had a combat class of 500,000 or 600,000 which is equal to the demon king and the supreme deity or slightly above depends on which combat class you think he had I believe that meal had the same combat class for only a minute
@@thatguywithapencil I would only say they lost so bad because Elizabeth was mostly a non factor because her magic would be mostly useless against her mother and would do nothing to the demon king and the dk and sd could take blows for each other even though I don't think they would need to in that battle
I’m gonna assume that prime base meli was at around 150k. Then at assault mode he was at like 300k. But he did get wiped out by the DK and SD only in demon mark form so who knows. Maybe he didn’t want to use his asssualt mode oit of fear of becoming evil again
@@Nathan24634 I find it funny that with all The hype surrounding meli scaling him against the arch angels that we haven’t ever seen him fight any of them😂. Besides that one time his aura clashed with maels then Maël ran away smh
It was a side story written and illustrated by Nakaba, and in canon Meliodas and Mael fought. This is the depiction of it, so it’s canon. For when it could appear? Likely when the fight against Estarossa finishes.
No it won’t. This side story was a flashback of Bellion’s from Prisoners of the Sky manga (The movie which had already released). For some stupid and unknown reason, they cut this scene of Mael vs Meliodas out, in addition to other important and wanted parts of that story. Then A1 wonders why the movie failed -.- and left, giving SDS to studio Deen, as we all know, was the stupidest fucking decision and the worst choice to a studio with a reputation for making shitty anime. If A1 did the movie right, you would’ve seen Mael vs Meliodas, good animation from season 3, and a larger audience for the anime.
Hey that guy with a pencil, I am going to quote this that, meliodas was going to win the battle against Mael, if Mael didn't actually retreat. Also adding up some mathematical discoveries that I've spent my time on meliodas power level in his prime was 270,000 and males was 210,000. Also if you kind of think about their stats. Meliodas can defeat him in speed strength and magical ability so it makes sense that Mael retreat. That's just my opinion, you make good vids though. 👍
I'm late to the party, but those power levels must be way higher than that. If Ludociel while possessing Margaret was at 201,000 - meaning his true body was likely higher - Meliodas and Mael must be well above that, especially at their peaks.
@@MidorimaI love these conversations and I have my own opinion on this I believe that the archangels while inhabitants of another body have access to half their power so ludo would have a combat class of 402k in his real body and this makes sense if you think the og demon baseline has a combat class of I believe 341k
imgur.com/a/fIyqVY1 Fifth to last page. "Repelled an archangel" Repel definition www.google.com/search?q=repel&oq=repel+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i433i512j0i512j0i433i512j0i10i512j0i512l5.3123j1j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Aka, Mael ran.
@@thatguywithapencil i just checked and it never says mael ran , just repelled since his darkness didnt go away near mael and we dont even see that happen, they fight and separate thats it
@@ProjektTakuI mean yeah even if you think noon/the one mael is equal to assault mode meliodas that lasts for a minute and we know based on escanor that the one mode is a drastic power boost and is removed from everything else they have to offer in terms of power
Just a few comments, regarding this: -You're taking the fight in the Fairy King's Forest out of context entirely. Yes, Ludociel was very cautious and didn't want to fight Meliodas in that moment, but that ignores the full picture. We just saw how Ludociel, Sariel and Tarmiel got man-handled by the Indura, whom weren't even trying. Following this, Prime Elizabeth intervenes and uses her full power to hold them off and the fight becomes a stalemate. Very quickly, the threat of Elizabeth losing control of these demons is realised and it's why Ludociel was cautious about fighting Meliodas, who is standing right next to Elizabeth. Any conflict, probably would've broken Elizabeth's spell and freed the Indura, whom would've turned around and killed everyone or been a very considerable and dangerous threat. That's why he recruited Sariel and Tarmiel, because it was his best chance to get past Meliodas and to the Indura, who he was eager to kill. He didn't want to fight Meliodas individually in that moment, because it would've been disasterous, he would've freed the Indura and they all would've been in serious danger of being killed. If you placed DM Mel and Ludociel in an empty room, Mel wouldn't really stand a chance, it's just that in this context, the threat of Indura are much more considerable, than Meliodas. -Noon Mael would stomp even Assault Meliodas, and I'm not sure where you're getting the narrative that he wouldn't. Mael told us, whom Gowther agreed, that his power was comparable to Prime Mel, Prime Eliz and Ludociel. We were also told that Ludociel, and by extension Eliz/Mel that there was no hope for anyone to even dare to match Mael's power when it got very close to noon, or noon itself. The Demon Clan didn't lose hope and still believed they could've won the war when Meliodas betrayed them, killed two commandments and added his own (sure nerfed, but still powerful) power to the Goddesses, yet when the Goddess Clan lost Mael, they became suicidal quite quickly and ended the war, by that narrative, Mael's was more important, because he was more powerful. Hell, the demons told Elizabeth to hand Mel over, so they could kill him, which basically implies once again, his defection was less impactful than Mael's death, because he was weaker. I think when it comes to Mael/Mel, Mael has the upper hand and wins very close to noon, whereas Meliodas would win when it was midnight, or past noon, like in the side story where Mael retreated. Also, you saw Meliodas can just full counter Mael's arsenal, which seems pretty presumptuous when we don't know how Mael's power could work against full counter. Just by existing, he was able to shut down Zeldris Ominous Nebula and bypass the Demon King's magical immunity on Zeldris, with the latter power being superior to Full Counter, so it's a definite possibility that Mael can just bypass it. I've got more ideas, but I'll be writing an essay even more.. LOL, what do you think?
Okay, I like your ideas, but I disagree. For the Fairy King's Forest situation, I don't think Ludociel was concerned about distracting Elizabeth and freeing the Indura. He's yelling at her, threatening her to stop, if anything if he had gotten what he wanted, she would have stopped her attack and they all would have had to fight the Indura anyway. He even gets ready to fight the Indura from right behind Elizabeth before Meliodas pops up anyway, so I don't think he really cares about that and that being the basis of his reasoning for calling for help. Another thing, Meliodas blitzes in front of Ludociel while in Demon Mark. Ludociel, he who does the blitzing, gets blitzed by Meliodas. And, if Ludociel really would slap up a Demon Mark Meliodas, he wouldn't have gotten blitzed, called for help, and been sweating at the sight of him. I'm not saying Ludociel wouldn't put up a good fight, but considering we know Meliodas is superior to Zeldris, and Zeldris is at LEAST relative to the Original Demon, who is a rival to Ludociel, it wouldn't be too shocking that Meliodas would be stronger. The reason I believe Noon Mael would not absolutely murderstomp a serious Meliodas is because all of the statements of equality between the two. They're constantly referenced as equals of importance and rivals rather than Mael being a dominant party, even Mael admits it. And remember, Ludociel says he himself was no match for Mael near noon, but not anyone. Specifically himself, and considering he gets blitzed by just a plain Demon Mark, no Commandment Meliodas, it wouldn't be hard to see that Mael and Meliodas are both beyond Ludociel. And even when Mael mentions that he, his brother, Elizabeth, and Meliodas are all equals, an image of Demon Mark Meliodas appears, not even Assault Mode. In regards of importance, I still think the edge goes to Meliodas because he was simply that strong. As Estarossa states, the Goddess Clan didn't fight the Demon Clan because of Meliodas, and that includes Mael. Meliodas is the entire reason the Holy War even happened, because he was the great balancer. If any other Demon betrayed, likely even Zeldris, it would have meant nothing because they weren't as strong as Meliodas. No one was. And, even going with Mael's statement, he implies that he was interchangeable. If Elizabeth or Ludociel died, it would have had the same effect, because its a matter of importance rather than pure strength. And the main issue is we have no idea when the side story takes place. It's a fifty fifty shot of it being morning or afternoon, and the main reason I lean towards it actually being morning is because that fight is the reason Meliodas was so feared by the Goddess Clan in the first place. When at a total disadvantage, he scared away their strongest Archangel. It wouldn't have the same relevance if Meliodas scared the strongest Archangel when they were weak. The reason I do not think Full Counter or Meliodas would be affected by Mael's Grace and be negated is because Meliodas' darkness, as stated by Mael himself, stands equal to Mael's Grace. The main reason Zeldris even got negated, is because due to his lack of Commandment and insane fatigue, he lacked the power to stand up to Mael until he unlocked his furious drive. You can even see Meliodas' sword survives the battle with Mael, unlike Zeldris'. The main reason I give so little credence to Noon Mael being this crazy strong monster who solos everything but the Supreme Deity and the Demon King, is because he never shows up. He's featless. He's an idea. And we know the One is not actually invincible, we've seen that it experiences pain, can get one shot, can get cut up, and even just outright bleed. And pretty much every single "The One" we have seen loses to their respective serious Assault Mode Meliodas, from young Escanor, by his own admittance late aged Escanor, and by scaling Final Shine Escanor. For Mael, we can't really estimate his maximum strength because we never saw it, and little to nothing in the series implies he would dominate his rivals like Elizabeth and Meliodas, who both have proven stronger than Ludociel one way or another, just like Ludociel states Mael would. At best I can give Mael an equal at noon, but inferior at all other times. Also, don't be afraid to write an essay! I'll read it, keep giving your ideas.
@@thatguywithapencil Thanks for replying! Very well then haha: -The problem with saying ''well they would have had to fight the Indura anyway'' if Elizabeth's spell got cancelled out kind of ignores how she spent all her energy and most, if not all her magic on that tug of war. If the Indura were freed, Elizabeth was probably out of it and who else would've stopped them? We just saw the archangels get overwhelemed effortlessly, and this was before the Indura got even stronger in reaction to Elizabeth's light. Gloxinia and Drole don't stand a chance and neither does Meliodas. You could infer that he MIGHT be able to stand up to one of the Indura, and that to me is a stretch, but he'd be killed easily against two. If Assault Mode = Prime Elizabeth, then DM Mel doesn't stand a chance. If these empowered Indura were freed, the battle would've been extremely dangerous and messy, and there's a chance that some of them would've been killed. They were clearly a very serious threat, since Ludociel was freaking out hardcore before Elizabeth came in and he's a pretty chill dude who doesn't care unless it's serious. -''Meliodas blitzed Ludociel''. No? How can you say this when Ludociel wasn't paying any attention to Meliodas? He was staring at Elizabeth and the Indura, not even fighting and was even just standing there not doing or saying anything for a part of it. It's an incredible reach that this Mel, and even AM Mel in my opinion, could blitz Ludociel, someone stated to be his equal when he also has a grace from the Supreme Deity that greatly enhances his speed, especially in a context where Ludociel was more than off-guard. That's a huge reach, now if you compared actual battle feats in speed, I'm down, but this, nada. -I don't know where you got the idea that Zeldris is relative to the Original Demon. It was made perfectly clear by Zeldris himself, that he was inferior to Cusack, someone with a PL of 160-180k. We don't know the PL of the original demon, but it's definitely superior to Cusack's PL and could be the combined PL of the masters, being 341,000. No WAY, is Zeldris relative to this. You can bring the fight with Mael, but there was no indication that Zeldris trained or got stronger before this battle, plus, Mael in this fight was pretty casual, holding himself back to not kill Zeldris and wanting peace instead of conflict, and it was only when Mael got caught off-guard at Zeldris being incredibly desperate that he was overwhelmed for a brief moment. We saw Mael one-shot the Original Demon, who hypothetically is 341k and Zeldris tells us he's inferior to Cusack, at half of that PL. For Zeldris, his raw strength is far inferior to the other top Goddesses and Demons, but his original magic along with the Demon King's protection are such ''hax'' abilities, it gives him the ability to fight as an equal. Take even daddy's protection away, and he gets stomped pretty damn hard. (Elaborating on this since I saw you think Zeldris could defeat top tier Goddesses in your other video, when IMO, he can't hurt them at all, but neither can they, save Mael). -Ludociel was rivaling the Original Demon whilst in an astral body that was slowly fading away, weakening him, along with being unable to move from his position due to needing to protect Merlin. He was unable to use his grace to its full power and I have no doubt it would've allowed him to overwhelm the Original Demon, whose attacks Ludociel could've just ''flashed'' away if he was allowed to and not burdened by Merlin. -I see a flaw in your thinking here. Mael cannot be the dominant party because of equality statements, but Meliodas can be? If Meliodas can match Noon Mael, that just infers he stomps Mael at his base. That's quite hypocritical, don't you think? And if Noon Mael isn't that much more powerful than Base Mael, it doesn't add up with Ludociel's statements, so that isn't an option. The problem with the whole equality narrative comes from how they cannot be perfect individuals, because Mael's PL is always changing. If Mael equals Meliodas at noon, then there is no balance of power, and the demons just stomp 23 hours and 59 minutes of the day. I watched your Goddess VS Demon clan video, and I already know you're thinking the demons are stronger and if the only option the Goddesses had was a 60 second form to fight Meliodas, then the balance of power is so hugely favoured for the demons and the story breaks into itself as to why the demons didn't just crush the Goddesses. If we go for the other side of the coin, where Mael stomps Mel at noon, it's the same issue, but its a less of a problem because its a form that only encompasses like 0.1% of the day and is incredibly predictable, to the point that demons like Mel just wouldn't go near Mael when it came close to noon and only fight him after it. -The whole statement being drawn with a DM Mel is because of the context of the statement itself. It was referring to Gowther choosing Mael at the time when Meliodas was with stigma, shown by his clothes and DM, since he didn't have AM anymore when he defected. If this isn't enough, we also have Meliodas saying he met Elizabeth on the battlefield when leading the ten commandments, with the drawing being him in his Assault Mode, and later on, he tells us he underestimated her in battle and ended up in a world of pain for it. Connecting the dotes, this means Elizabeth met AM Mel on the battlefield, they had a brief fight, he didn't take her seriously and he ended up regretting it, which is supported even more by the statement of Prime Eliz = AM Mel. If Elizabeth achieved this and Noon Mael is far above her, then Meliodas doesn't stand a chance no matter what form he is in. -As for the side story, why would Mael retreat if it was morning? He'd be getting stronger over time and it would mean he'd have the advantage of reinforcements being sent. It would've been easy to just wait for noon and then have someone like Elizabeth tag team Meliodas. Logically, there's more reasoning to think it was post-noon, where Mael would be getting weaker and weaker. -Mael's statement implying he's inter-changeable supports the narrative of Base Mael = Elizabeth/Ludociel, whom equal AM Mel, meaning Noon Mael > Prime Mel. -Escanor's use of the grace isn't really reflective of Mael, since Escanor's PL comes from the grace alone, whereas Mael has an entire PL of an archangel on top of it (201k+), so saying Mel one-shotting Escanor is supportive of AM Mel = Noon Mael, is the same as me saying Escanor one-shotting AM Mel, means Noon Mael > AM Mel. -Mael was said by Sariel to have been the strongest of the four archangels, even when graceless, so the statement of comparability must be from when Mael was at his base, as it alligns with Ludociel's statement. Plus, logically, if Elizabeth is the second strongest Goddess, equal to Noon Mael, making her far above Base Mael, why did the Supreme Deity not just give her daughter the sun grace? It makes no sense to not do that, it would've allowed Elizabeth to stomp AM Mel and win the Holy War. It's just, saying Noon Mael = AM Mel, makes the Supreme Deity look like a moron, the author look like a moron, the demon race look like morons and contradicts the fifty statements we have suggesting the idea that Noon Mael is stronger than Mel. Long enough for ya? :D
Yes! Finally! A worthy essay! Our discussion will be legendary! 1. I was just referencing your point about Ludociel not attempting to solo Meliodas because of the repercussions of possibly distracting Elizabeth. He was distracting Elizabeth a lot with no fear, so that was just me disagreeing with your point. 2. Ludociel can sense magic. And Meliodas in Demon Mark would radiate loads of magic. We can see that Ludociel doesn't really need to pay attention to react to his opponents, as in 206 Derieri comes up behind him while he's dealing with Monspeet and Ludociel doesn't even look her way before dodging, because he can sense magic. And you're right, Ludociel's Grace does give him insane speed, but that speed has been surpassed. It's been surpassed by multiple people, from Indura Derieri, to Meliodas, to Zeldris, to even Mael. And well, for actual battle feats pertaining to speed Prime Meliodas scales above the Original Demon, whose relative to Ludociel, scales up from Ominous Nebula Zeldris who surpasses Flash, scales to if not above "The One" Escanor, who surpasses Zeldris and Ludociel. Meliodas would be faster than all of them. 3. Zeldris goes head to head with Full Wings King with Chastiefol, through pure strength alone since he can't use Ominous Nebula on an inorganic creature, taking some damage when the Original Demon got his shield pierced and was coughing blood. He slaps around a late morning Escanor, Ludociel, and Merlin all with Ominous Nebula alone, and forces Cusack and Chandler to defend themselves from it. He fights off against Mael. He destroys the Sighing Sage, something Mael and Ludociel couldn't do. He defeats Fleeting Hermit with Ominous Nebula. While I will admit, Zeldris is at his best with his father's amps, that doesn't devalue his strength as a warrior with them and his feats that put him above a lot of other characters. While Zeldris states that Cusack and Chandler are stronger than him, everything he does proves the exact opposite. I understand he has a low power level, but the power level, just like the statement, is contradicted repeatedly enough that I end up ignoring them. I understand if you don't though. 4. I agree that Ludociel in his prime would have done better against the Original Demon, but I still believe he would end up being overwhelmed by the OD's constant power amps. 5. I am a bit confused, but that may just be me being unable to interpret your point. The balance of power comes from the idea that at a time, Mael does equal Meliodas and Meliodas is usually passive when it comes to attacking his foes. He toys around. This is repeated multiple times, stated by Zeldris, seen by Meliodas vs Escanor, and even stated Meliodas himself against Elizabeth. That's the whole reason Mael managed to even escape the first time, because Meliodas let him live. Why didn't the Demons just crush the Goddesses if the power disparity was so large? Because the goddesses could always retreat back to their realm, and even Meliodas had no real answer against the Supreme Deity, a being the Demon King would be required to fight. Also, until Meliodas betrayed, there really was no Holy War, so the crushing of one side or the other wasn't a necessity. And once again, there being such a vast power disparity between the two clans isn't something that does not go unmentioned by the series. Meliodas has to nerf the Demons before he leaves by killing two Commandments and betraying, and the goddesses need to team up with all the other major races in the verse to even stand a chance. 6. Meliodas does not lose Assault Mode when he leaves the Demon Clan. He just refrains from using it, for whatever reason. Likely because he does not need it. Meliodas' commandment is not a prerequisite for AM, as we see him access it multiple times without his Commandment. And for Meliodas' statement of Elizabeth putting him in world of pain, it was simply because he underestimated her, just like he underestimates all his opponents because he is a the strongest. And "being put into a world of pain" does not mean Meliodas lost that fight, it means he was caught lacking and needed to step his game up. The battle is at best is indecisive since we have so little information on it. And in the images that Mael conjures when referencing his shared equality between himself, Meliodas, Ludociel and Elizabeth, he is specifically drawn in Demon Mark, rather than Assault Mode, which actually matches up with the narrative since it was Demon Mark Meliodas that Mael and Ludociel fought, not Assault Mode, which would actually put Elizabeth above Ludociel and Mael, which isn't too shocking since she could restrain two Indura at once when Ludociel was getting slapped. 7. I don't think so, because why would everyone fear Meliodas as unrivaled if he did not fight the strongest at his strongest? If he fought a weakening Mael, there would be not worries about Meliodas amongst the Goddess Clan, but Meliodas was the key to the start of Holy War because he was as strong as the strongest at his strongest. And if Mael was weakening, why would he even bother trying to fight Meliodas? Mael's not dumb, he pulls out when he knows he can't win, and will admit it. Once again, I'm not saying its impossible that it was afternoon, but considering Mael's attitude his initial surprising lack of fear, it seems just as likely that it would be morning, Meliodas would toy with him until the One, be forced to get serious, and Mael would run once he realized he lost all chance of winning, and the fear of Meliodas would spread like a plague. 8. No, I disagree. The statement of Mael likely supports he is interchangeable with the others when in his normal Sun empowered state, but not the One, just as Meliodas is not in Assault mode, as that is the only power he knows relative to the others. He never fought Meliodas at night. 9. Mael's power level only reaches above 201,000 when fueled by Four Commandments. Base Mael is much weaker than that. And I agree with you, I think the One Mael and Prime Assault Mode Meliodas are rivals, not a direct curbstomp like AM Meliodas to Escanor. 10. He is the strongest of the Four Archangels when they are all Graceless, and that is why he is able to manhandle the Commandments. Even Ludociel admits that he is normally stronger than Mael until late morning. 11. Where are these statements that Noon Mael is stronger than AM Meliodas? I best, I'm getting equals. We never see Noon Mael, so we have no idea of his power. He doesn't even have any real statements. I get and respect your interpretation, but I don't think it lines up with what the narrative presents us. And yes, it makes everyone look stupid, but to be fair, a lot of things in Seven Deadly Sins, especially power scaling wise, are pretty dumb. However, we must work with the dumb. Yes, it was just long enough! Great work, nice points, though I still happen to disagree with a lot of them. You articulate yourself well. Thanks for your initial comment and response!
@@thatguywithapencil 2- Right, Ludociel can sense magic but he isn't concerned or worried about Meliodas presence until he's basically stopping him from killing the bigger threat, being the Indura. I mean, he literally stood in front of Meliodas at the Stigma Headquaters and pronounced the supposed genocide of the demon race, which includes Meliodas obviously. So he doesn't really care for Meliodas nor is he scared. In fact, he's that disconcerned about Meliodas strength that he was happy to go to Camelot where he's supposedly absorbing five commandments and was confident in his ability to kill him. The only time he even ''sweats'' or is worried against Meliodas is when, once again, a bigger threat is right next to him, being the Indura. 2.5 - Just separating this, but just saying Meliodas scales above other characters isn't good enough IMO. Can you reference a particular manga moment, fight, or scene that tells the audience that Meliodas is at XYZ level of speed, and Ludociel is at XYZ level of speed, inferring that one is superior to the other? Maybe because Meliodas isn't a character I care majorly for, but I don't remember a scene that clearly outlines that Meliodas > Ludociel in speed. Can you show me? 3- Zeldris isn't fighting on equal terms with Chastiefol, the spirit spear has the upper hand, although it's not too extreme. Also, you're implying Zeldris could fight toe to toe with a full powered King, which isn't true when he's barely holding his own against a King who can't use more than one form and is losing magic at a rapid rate. Furthermore, Zeldris didn't destroy the spirit spear, whereas the Original Demon was able to, and with regards to the Sighing Sage, Zeldris destroyed it because of his father's power, not by his own strength. His own strength isn't on the same level as the other top tier fighters, its just ON and God are powerful and compliment each other so well, that he's able to fight on the same level and even beyond. Look at Mael, he's able to bypass these abilities and even when holding back, he's overwhelming Zeldris, and his strength is comparable to Ludociel/Elizabeth, who sadly, can't bypass his magical immunity, the thing that saves him the most. 4- Original Demon has no speed feats on the same level as Ludociel, who had to stand still in one spot as a body guard for Merlin, so he wasn't able to use his grace at all, which is vastly about enhancing his speed, which obviously can't be used if he is forced to stay in one spot to act as defence since the OD was tunnelling Merlin. I do think the OD's power amps could be effective, but they're insignificant if Ludociel can just dodge them, and he certainly could since he has speed feats, and the pony has none. 5- So the power balance only ever existed because Meliodas didn't just try, is what you're saying? LOL, sorry, but that's funny to me and is quite silly. We were told numerous times that neither clan was able to destroy each other, which resulted in a temporary ''peace treaty'' between both races when they absolutely hated each other. You reference the Supreme Deity being the only thing stopping Meliodas, which is incorrect, because we were told Elizabeth, Mael and Ludociel (you can debate Ludociel, but not Eliz/Mael) were on the same level as him, and that's shown when Meliodad admits Elizabeth basically stomped him when he didn't fight with his full strength. The Goddesses would've won the holy war if Gowther didn't reinstate the power balance, that was certain because Meliodas broke the balance to begin with. 6- It's funny, because this is one of those points that we're both right on. Meliodas tells us, multiple times, that he's no longer as powerful as he was when leading the ten commandments (e.g AM). He tells Merlin this, as well as Elizabeth, and it's shown by how he was killed by the 10C's, when his full power AM mode would stomp on all of them. But then, the author reveals like 100 chapters later that he used AM and one-shots noon Escanor and he had it all along, which is a ret-con and breaks all consistency. So canonically, you're right to say Meliodas had AM all along, or he didn't. It's just an example, of how the author retconned so many plot points consistently, over and over. 6.5 - Eh, the imagery drawn contradicts itself. It's DM Mel when Mael makes his statement, but then it's AM Mel when the author shows us how Elizabeth and Mel met and fought. So which is it? You could infer that this means Elizabeth is above Mael and Ludociel, and whilst I do think that could be the case for Base Mael/Ludociel, it's very clear Noon Mael is above Elizabeth, who equals AM Mel, so once again, it infers Noon Mael > AM Mel. Maybe all along, it was Elizabeth who was the true equal to Meliodas and Mael wasn't, which tickles my Elizabeth bias, but it's not what the story tells us directly. Either way, Meliodas has an equal, and it's Elizabeth/Mael definitely. 7- Meliodas is only unrivalled in his own clan, against the Goddesses, we were told multiple times that there were warriors capable of fighting him as an equal, or giving him a good challenge. I don't see how anything changes this when it was made clear that this was the case. Meliodas was feared because of his ruthless nature, just like how the demons feared Elizabeth and Mael for slaughtering them with no hesitation. It's not really implied, at least for Elizabeth, that she was scared of Meliodas, or for the AA's. 7.5 -Honestly, the whole side story is lacking SO much information. What time was it when they fought? Why did Mael retreat? Was it out of fear, was it because it was late noon? Was it because Ludociel wanted him back for afternoon tea? Who knows, and that's the problem with it. 9- How is Base Mael below 201k when you've just said he's interchangeable with Ludociel out of his noon form? And Ludociel is far above 201k, since that PL was him nerfed. 10- Huh? Ludociel's statement implies they were on a comparable level, and then it gets close to noon and he has no chance, which supports what Mael said. 11- Mael states that himself, Elizabeth and Ludociel were equal to Meliodas. You can say this is DM Mel, but that doesn't add up with Elizabeth basically stomping AM Mel who didn't take her seriously, and she's said to be equal to Ludociel/Mael, so it HAS to be AM Mel this statement is about. We then have Ludociel saying, that it's only when it gets close to noon that he has no chance of being on par with his brother, which suggests when you connect these statements together, that Noon Mael stands above everyone else. It's funny because people pull the ''well they're called equals, so you take their strongest forms'' card, but then it doesn't apply to the other side of the coin, about Elizabeth/Ludociel being equal to Meliodas, who are then confirmed to be weaker than Noon Mael, which once again infers Noon Mael > AM Meliodas. You have statements, with a little bit of connecting the dotes supporting Noon Mael > Meliodas, and none suggesting Noon Mael = Meliodas. This also supports the whole side story with Mael retreating after noon, since he would get weaker and weaker, and there's no benefit to fighting a harder battle when you could just retreat and try again with more favourable circumstances.
Let's be honest here we didn't see the end of the fighting between Mael and Meliodas Also, we didn't see Mael in his full power even though most fans of the series wanted to see it happen and I was one of them.But in the end, the writer decided to give all the glory to Escanor and made Mael a coward
We didn't see the end of the fight between Meliodas and Mael because Mael ran, which is sad. I wanted to see Mael's full power too, but considering his lack of confidence in it, I really wonder how impressive it would be.
@@thatguywithapencil Who said that he is not sure of his strength, if you hint at chapter 317 when he told Escanor that he does not think he can fight the demon king this happened because the writer wanted to give all the glory to Escanor because he is one of the main characters, so he made Mael look like a coward and I really hated what the writer did to him
@CUDawg For Reals Mael is the overrated one How is that
@@alidahab9893 Because in the end it's just a matter of opinion on who is stronger.Even though I see more meliodas wanking then mael which isn't fair when meliodas powers were more explored then maels (we didn't even se mael near noon or noon form).But hey it's fun to speculate about it.Have a nice day
@@dinisjazz I also wish you a nice day my buddy
Maybe Mael was in his late afternoon state when his powers were decreasing by every minute, so that's why probably Mael retreated against Prime Meliodas
It is a possibility, a pure 50/50. I lean towards the idea that it was morning, as they equaled out around noon, because they are considered equals at their peaks, but no one would know that unless they actually fought at their peaks.
@@thatguywithapencil can i get the scan or chapter which says they equaled only at Noon?
@@lukelokesh8681 You can't because it wasn't stated that they were equal at noon.The whole holy war arc dosen't make sense what stoped mael from obliterating the demon clan with his noon form or what stoped meliodas from obliterating the godess clan with his op hakai power.Mael and Meliodas were stated to be equal who was stronger betwen them it's up to debate both sides have good points and both sides have "special" people that attack other people opinion on their favorite character.Have a nice day
@@dinisjazz hmm you're right but meliodas unlocked his hakai magic power in the 4th war not the previous one where he and mael were said to be equals. Tho I think One Mael is stronger than AM Meliodas but not against Destroyer magic meliodas. It won't make sense that the SD had a warrior who's stronger than her at high noon, using her own power(tho I have a separate theory of Maels usage and power from sunshine than Escanor's)
@@lukelokesh8681 The one mode lasts one minute so what kind of threat would mael be to the supreme diety,it's possible that mael in the one mode posseses power that rivals the supreme diety but it dosen't last long.I've seen people theorize that sunshine affects escanor and mael diffrently.Mael is the og wielder of sunshine can use it to it's maximum and it dosen't affect him negatively like it does to escanor.Escanor isn't made to handle sunshine,sunshine for him was in fact a burden a sicknes that slowly ate away at his body until he died.Mael is already buffed so he dosen't get such a physical boost then escanor who's a scrawny human.Can you explain me the mechanics of mel op hakai power is it connected to his demon king form with those arm tentacles, can he use it in a fight immediatly like zeldris omnious nebula, how could he delete his power in the aftermath of demon king zeldris fight did he get the power as a result of the purgatory training arc or was he born with it ? Have a nice day
So many ppl try to debunk meliodas vs mael saying oh this isn't cannon it was just a promotional manga for the movie
They realize this fight is why the Archangels fear Meliodas right?
Brilliant analysis very underatted channel
Thank you!
Meliodas won five minutes into the video lmao
It'd be a good fight.
underrated needs more attention and great video also
Thank you!
Escanor's the One Ultimate is a dying human (humans having the shortest lifespans of all species in the series) using his lifeforce to make it last as long as it did, but Mael's the One Ultimate isn't killing him because the grace is in a compatible body and angels have the longest lifespan so theoretically if Mael used his lifeforce to fuel the One Ultimate like Escanor did, he could potentially pull a win.
True!
@@thatguywithapencil plus prime melodies power lvl is at 147,479 the leader of the ark a is lucidly power lvl is 200,000 to 210,000 which is stronger than melodies meal is at 365,000 not including the one
@@thatguywithapencil so there melodies loses its talks about it in the show
@@thatguywithapencil plus there both kids
@@thatguywithapencil so we can put an end to this plus in the show if u have a lower power lvl u loseing
but didn't mael slap the original demon who should have a power level of at least 341 000 while using the ability crisis
The initial Assault Mode Meliodas power level is not accurate to his true strength. He is stronger than Zeldris, as admitted by Zeldris himself and shown to us. Zeldris managed to bully a late morning Escanor, Merlin, and Magaret Body Ludociel, with at least Ludociel having a higher power level 201,000. Then, for the Original Demon gap in power, Zeldris does way better against Mael than the Original Demon did, managed to hold off against King who was about to one shot the Original Demon, and Meliodas is still stronger. Then you have the time these two actually fought and Mael ran from Meliodas. The 142,000 is outdated.
@NOREAN PIPES that was a meliodas holding him self
mate, I think you forgot that mael holded back while fighting zeldris.
Mael was even able to damage zeldris using magical attacks, do you even imagine how strong mael would be when compared to zeldris ??
Zeldris would get one shotted if mael wanted to do so.
@@thatguywithapencil as far as i know, it wasn't outdated, i believe meliodas can control his power level while in assault mode, being that his power whilst fighting escanor was actually 142,000. He mainly lost do to his cockiness and not expecting the one, which im pretty sure is 232,000. Also when escanor used the one ultimate his power was around 730,000 im pretty sure. Whilst meliodas assault mode full power is at around 720,000. So taking those stats and putting that onto mael assuming he has everything escanor has but stronger i believe there is a high chance meliodas would survive but struggle against mael the one. But if he used the one ultimate (assuming he has one) i believe he would beat meliodas in a one on one battle
@@thatguywithapencil Mael also held back.
After watching this video right now saying mael was a kid when meliodas was an adult oof (since mael is still older than meliodas)
No, it wasn’t an oof. At least I don’t think it was. Meliodas is still older, he was the same age as Elizabeth and Mael is younger than both of them. I think Mael is older than Zel though.
@@thatguywithapencil mael is 3500
How does this prime meliodas use his Revenge counter ? While having the love commandment?
He just takes damage and doesn't get angry I suppose. Luckily enough the Counters don't really rely on emotion.
Revenge counter is just giving the amount of damage that he recieved to them, he prob had hate on the commandments when he use it againts them so thats why estarossa stoped him
Even then I wonder if commandments will work on being with greater power than them.
So basically, if if the archangels get cornered by all the top demons they would get obliterated
Oh yeah. If Meliodas, Zeldris, Chandler, and Cusack pulled up on the Archangels, it wouldn't be fair. It'd be a cool fight, but the Demons would win.
@@thatguywithapencil Mainly because of Meliodas lol
@@justtoolit6051 no, Zeldris, Chandles and Cusack are stronger than those other archangels
@@justtoolit6051 Ludociel can't even go near at Zeldris with his Ominous Nebula
@@jebong0929 Meliodas is far more OP than everyone you just mentioned. Chandler, Cusack and Zeldris are not stronger than Mael but Meliodas is.
If even the Goddess and the Demon king feared Meliodas what makes people think a single Archangel was a problem for meliodas? He never went 100% on anyone if he would he would win 100%
The only character confirmed to stand above Meliodas are the Demon King and Supreme Deity, which is crazy to think about.
@@thatguywithapencil not really they both Feared Meliodas Strongest ability called Destruction which he never used he could kill any of them haha
@@Nevetyo That's true, which makes me wonder what direction the series would have gone if Meliodas released his True Magic against the Demon King and Supreme Deityin his initial battle with them.
@@thatguywithapencil would have ended the whole anime story right there haha
sorry to saying but Mael doesnt have the one form
yes he does. There's nothing suggesting mael doesn't have it, and ludociel even states that his power peaks at noon.
He should have it.
He should have one, its likely just that Ludo and Mael never identified it as "the One".
@@thatguywithapencil yes but its still the one.
Its like if merlin called meliodas's assault mode "assault mode" but he called it like "super demon mode" it'd still be assault mode.
Who is more powerfull meliodas prime or current?
Current. Post-Purgatory base Meliodas slaps old Prime Meliodas.
Love your vids
Thank you man!
@@thatguywithapencil np
Where in the manga does meliodas fight mael?
Bonus chapter 279.5.
@@thatguywithapencil can you give me a link
I think that the Naruto video will be a good change of pace for the channel
Then you know what time it is!
I would say that yes, when not close to noon Mael would easily lose to Meliodas. When noon is approaching, let's say 30 mins before noon, Mael would start to be at a level when Meliodas can't just easily pound him to scrap. When like 5 mins before noon, Mael would have the upper hand since Mael can use sunshine to it's full potential unlike escanor. Also we saw in Meli vs Escanor fight at the begining, Escanor didn't stand a chance but when very close to moon Escanor's body was strong enough that instead of lostvayne cutting through his body, the blade just barely pierced his body and got stuck. It's such a shame the writers didn't show Mael at full power. I would be interested to think what you would think about this now since after the release of this video we saw afternoon Mael OHKO the original demon (being comprised of chandler and cusack, whose power levels were 172k and 168k respectively if i recall correctly).
I would disagree that Mael could ever beat a serious, considering if Mael was about that action that much, he would have, in character, invaded the Demon Realm and slaughtered Meli and not ran.
@@thatguywithapencil literally surpeme diety is the only one that would slap meliodas during 3k years ago then again meliodas had the "destroyer magic he can use since he always had it" full counter is just a substitute magic. Mael literally was shook and if u pay attention mael sunshine was increasing against bellion. yet meliodas negged the sunshine and wasn't even using assault mode. not only that meliodas wasn't even trying against zeldris and estarossa while mael did struggle with a weaken zeldris with no commandment and was weaken after fighting "The one escanor big factor", merlin and marg ludo
@@thatguywithapencil and then u got the statment of all 4 arch angels feared meliodas. and the statement from the side story of the troll queen(jelamet) saying all the 4 races wouldn't stand a chance against the demon race if meliodas haven't betray the clan
Id like to see the father and son duo pls
You got it!
I honestly want to see the Demon king vs prime Meliodas video first
And that you shall get it in about two weeks. People are asking for the duo v duo, and Prime Meliodas versus his father will be a quick video.
@@thatguywithapencil aight thanks man
its base demon king, i dont think prime meliodas is stronger than the demon king
@@hrudaypatil564 never said that lol, I just wanted to see the video
Okay so, The One Mael should be stronger than The One escanor, and he may be on the level of The One Ultimate escanor (note, Even TOU escanor isn't on the level of the DK, as the DK was fighting multiple sins before then and extremely tired).
I believe that The One mael should be able to beat assault mode meliodas (prime) but not destroyer meliodas, since his destroyer power should cancel out any attack from mael and TOU escanor doesn't seem to be stronger than him.
Nah, no real evidence to prove any of that outside of head canon.
@@thatguywithapencil yes there is, because mael has his own goddess power ontop of the one, instead of the one escanor who only had the one's power.
And besides ludociel said mael was meliodas's equal so obviously he should beat him at his peak power.
@@ProjektTaku when did ludociel said that mael was melios equal?.... On top of that you need to keep a note on your mind that ludociel is stronger than mael...mael surpasses ludociel near noon... And also in prime meliodas vs prime mael fight... Mael ran away or avoided the fight...because he knew what the result will always be when it comes to facing meliodas head to head...you may say mael ran because of his kind nature... Thats frikkin bull shit... You may ask why....mael was the one who killed the original gowthers gf... If he was that much kind...why he would slay a harmless demon girl? Go and ask your mael why did he ran...is it due to fear? Or he was so kind that he Didn't want to kill melio and ran away...
@@subakiyuga1873 literally every time he mentions mael he mentions him as meliodas's equal or rival, and ludociel never stated that mael only surpassed him at near noon, although that would still not be the peak of his power, only that he couldn't compare during the day, plus it could've been the afternoon, really that whole fight was super vague.
Ngl I feel fucking chad king scale above mael sunshine. the surpeme diety praise king and ban and didn't give a shit about mael other than him being the strongest arch angels which that title doesn't mean shit to be honest in the overrall story
He definitely does. Easily. He damaged the Prime Demon King. Mael didn't even try.
@@thatguywithapencil If mael was stronger he would of kill meliodas and then clap elizabeth cheeks and boom tristan would of been a full goddess instead of a hybrid . sooo mael is not stronger than meliodas end of conclusion
@@thatguywithapencil It was post noon.
When did he run could someone possibly link me the manga that they fought in ? Also I feel like ludiceal or however you spell his name when he called for help it was more directed towards help me fight meliodas so we can also get to Elizabeth why one v one it when you can have 3 people fight him and possibly stop Elizabeth. Also flash stepping in front of someone doesn’t mean they are faster being distracted or not seeing someone coming can cause someone to flash step in front of someone. Also When mael “died” it also threw the balance off causing the goddess clan to sacrifice their solid forms to seal the demons. See a lot wasn’t mentioned or even takin into consideration I feel, it’s a neat video but also doesn’t feel very accurate. I wanna add one more thing if you look at the brief fight between Meliodas and mael their magic aura was Ying and Yang which leads them to be equal.
imgur.com/a/fIyqVY1
Right in there Mael is repelled in his own realm.
That still means Ludociel was not confident in getting past Meliodas himself when Meliodas was only in Demon Mark. If he was comparable or stronger, he wouldn't have asked fro help. And when you flash step in front of Ludociel, the guy whose whole thing is speed, and perception blitz him, when he has already reacted to behind blitzes from lower weaker Demons, I think its very important. Ludociel can sense magic. If he was comparable to Meliodas, who wouldn't have been blitzed. And realize, the only reason Mael mattered was because he was a fighter on the goddess' side. He himself admits it could have been him, his brother, Elizabeth, or Meliodas. Mael isn't Meliodas' equal, he's just another warrior. He's not special. And sorry, it doesn't seem like anything you said proved my video inaccurate. And if they were truly equal, Mael would not have ran.
@@thatguywithapencil exactly nakaba has already make it clear meliodas was a different breed
@@thatguywithapencil Ludociel says to take down all the commandemants including meliodas not just meliodas and he is fighting 2 young induras
But I honestly want to see more Taizai vs Naruto type battles or just Taizai vs other random anime's also, or you can do videos talking about certain Taizai characters vs the Akatsuki but do whatever
I have some ideas. Itachi vs Gowther is one that's definitely happening. BOS Ban versus Hidan is another. May slap Madara against somebody, because somehow as a massive Madara fan I haven't even considered a fight for him in Taizai. I'll take any ideas you have too.
@@thatguywithapencilAssault mode Meliodas , or Escanor vs Madara, and oh yah the Itachi vs Gowther fight sounds fantastic
I have a question you know how prime meliodas is like 350-368k and can beat mael or something how did escanor's one mode destroy meliodas if meliodas was in assault mode
Meliodas was suppressed and not as his full power in his fight against Escanor. Merlin notes that Meliodas is growing back into his prime self's power even after the loss the Escanor, which shows that Meliodas was not even at Max strength.
@@thatguywithapencil Thanks
it also can be implied that he was still holding back with zeldris statement about him toying with escanor after he entered the one
@@sandersGG he would still lose against Escanor in that battle. The One Escanor was still much much stronger. His feats against Demon King are too good.
@@thatguywithapencil ye u cant supress ur skin to be softer here, he was still one shotted
Where can I read this manga. I read all of the seven deadly sins and never seen this.
Look up Mael vs Meliodas on Reddit. Should be one of the first links.
OKAY time to end this agrument Mael is in love with elizabeth right?. why not JuST kill Meliodas and then clap elizabeth cheeks in the goddess realm boom ez tristan would be full goddess.(mael got that judgment techinque which can kill a demon but other races will just feel agony of pain, man got greatest sun omega ark) ez meli dead OR...... they got plenty of them even when meliodas betray his clan and he is Literally in stigma bruh JUST BRING all 4 arch angel and killed the mfer. but nope they would all fucking die if they try that cause it was stated all 4 of them feared that man with him just using demon mark.
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!
No. Mael is atleast equal to prime Ten commandments meliodas.
@@ProjektTaku nope
@@ProjektTaku U failed to understand the fact meliodas never went out all out on his enemies due to being cocky and he always heavily supressed himsefl and the fact meliodas during the entire holy war the goddess as a whole needed help from other races and still was losing due to the fact of meliodas .
U also failed to understand it took only the demon king and surpeme diety to kill a meliodas that wasn't even using All of his powers
7:44 Assault Mode Meliodas only defeated Escanor there because at that time Escanor was young and unable to control his power. The real The One Escanor is much stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory). He should also be stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas (after purgatory), but not that much. And The One Ultimate Escanor is definitely much stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas (after purgatory) and around the level of True Magic Form Meliodas.
The reason I doubt that is all the times that Meliodas implied to have humbled Escanor after their initial fight, shown by Escanor's own admission, Zeldris, who is standing right in front of the modern One, and should know about his brother's real strength believes that meliodas would win if he took him seriously, and Escanor's lack of rebuffing of Zeldris' statement, when he's in his most proud state of the day. If Escanor could win, he would have said so. And the reason I think AM Post Purg Mel is more comparable to the OU Escanor and True Magic being greater, is because a DM Mel was already swinging even with a prime Demon King with a resolve rebuff. Give him the Assault mode amp, and he's likely doing just as well as Escanor,but didn't want to in fear of destroying Zel's body. And True Magic is stated and or implied multiple times to be in a whole different tier than Assault Mode.
@@thatguywithapencil for the battle against young Escanor there is really not much to say. At that time Escanor couldn't control his power, he probably couldn't even do a simple Cruel Sun or anything. Meliodas defeating him doesn't mean much. Later when Escanor mastered his power we saw how powerful and fast he really is. Assault Mode Meliodas would have lost in their second battle in any case (even if he was holding back or wasn't regained his prime power). The One Escanor is equal to Demon King, and we know that Assault Mode Meliodas before purgatory is nowhere near Demon King. Base Meliodas after purgatory is much stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas before purgatory, and that Base Meliodas is also nowhere near Demon King. Even DM Meliodas after purgatory is still much weaker than Demon King. So The One Escanor would have one shoted prime Assault Mode Meliodas before purgatory in any case. Let's also not forget that Escanor fought with no intention to kill, which also shows his power and control of it.
Zeldris's statement doesn't really mean anything, since he had no idea how strong The One Escanor is. At that moment The One Escanor didn't really show his power to Zeldris, so Zeldris only knew about Escanor's showed power against Estarossa. At that moment, Zeldris simply believed that there is no mortal on Meliodas's level, especially not a human, his statement at that moment is normal, but it doesn't really mean anything. Also, even after the battle, Zeldris still couldn't really see full power of The One, because Escanor was only at Full Power against the Demon King. In any case, Zeldris's statement is useless. Also, the fact that Escanor didn't answered to that also doesn't really matter. There were other cases like that. There were also cases when he said he can win, even tho he knew that he can't, like against Original Demon when he was at his weakest. And about DM Meliodas, he fought against prime Demon King yeah, but he couldn't really do anything. Even with the help of Ban, King and others, they together still couldn't do anything against Demon King. While The One Escanor alone was equal to him, and The One Ultimate Escanor completely overpowered him. DM Meliodas has feats similar to base Escanor, but that is it. DM Meliodas is just much much weaker than The One Escanor and Demon King. Assault Mode is a big boost and with it he is probably close to The One Escanor and Demon King, or at max about equal. True Magic Form is much stronger than Assault Mode, just like how The One Ultimate is much stronger than The One. And with those 2 forms both Meliodas and Escanor have either feats or statements to be above prime Demon King. I won't talk about True Magic Form Meliodas vs The One Ultimate Escanor here because I did it in that other big comment on other video. But overall the scaling should be like this: True Magic Form Meliodas>=The One Ultimate Escanor>The One Escanor>=Assault Mode Meliodas (after purgatory)>Base Escanor=DM Meliodas(after purgatory)>Base Meliodas(after purgatory)>Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory).
@drew22w DK literally admitted that The One Escanor is equal to him, and The One Ultimate is obviously much stronger than The One. Just because they worked together at the end doesn't mean that they had to (they joined Escanor because it was his last fight, so they wanted to do it together as friends).
Also, Meliodas had to sacrifice his whole True Magic Form to destroy the commandments, and The One Ultimate Escanor was destroying prime Demon King along with the commandments in a real fight. Meliodas and Escanor are around the same level in their strongest forms.
Tmf Meliodas=The One Ultimate Escanor>Demon King=Supreme Deity=The One Escanor>Assault Mode Meliodas (post purgatory)>Base Escanor>Demon Mark Meliodas (post purgatory)>Base Meliodas (post purgatory).
But in any case, Escanor is much more impressive character overall. After all, he is a human with one Grace, while Meliodas is a demon God with op body and so many advantages, not to mention his purgatory power boosts. Even like that Escanor was mainly always stronger and the overall difference between them is not big, I personally believe that at their prime at full power they are about equal. But then again, imagine Escanor with a better body or purgatory boosts, not to mention both..
This is actually wrong. Escanor was actually STRONGER then because his body was younger and completely undamaged by sunshine at that point.
The only reason The One knocked out Meliodas is because he wasnt fighting seriously the second fight and didnt even have his memories for that fight
@SmartAss4123 that is very wrong. Escanor was yound, inexperienced and couldn't control his power when Meliodas defeated him. It doesn't matter that his body was healthy if he couldn't control his power and had no experience.
Also, about the second fight, Meliodas was definitely serious (Zeldris statement means nothing because he wasn't there and didn't know how strong Escanor really is). Meliodas used one of his strongest attacks, but couldn't damage Escanor. Then Escanor blitzed him with his attack, even if Meliodas wasn't serious, he wouldn't allow Escanor to blitz and knock him out. Think a little.
Another obvious proof...
Base Meliodas (after purgatory) is much much stronger than Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory). Base Escanor (in the Demon King fight) has feats to be about as strong or stronger than Base/Demon Mark Meliodas (after purgatory). And The One Escanor was equal to Demon King.
Overall, even Ban and King far surpassed Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory) and Mael level , not to mention Escanor, especially The One Escanor.
Assault Mode Meliodas (before purgatory) couldn't beat The One Escanor in that fight no matter what. Only True Magic Form Meliodas (after purgatory) can beat The One Escanor (Tmf Meliodas vs The One Ultimate Escanor is debatable).
In any case, I don't want to be rude, but I think your general and scaling knowledge is bad. And unfortunately, underrating Escanor and don't understanding his feats and character became normal in the community. I won't reply anymore, have a good day.
Love your vids dude keep them going👍
I got you bro!
Majority saying that demons would beat the goddess. Mel over Mael. Makes sense, the main protagonist of this show is a demon. Also the goddess and archangels were severely nerfed underrated.
Prime meldiodas has a powerlevel of 142,000 right? When he fights escanor in assault mode thats what hawk says. Mael not even at noon 1 shot the original demon who should have a combined power level of 150,000 + 163,000
No, his power kept rising after that, and in prime assault mode, his power level was over three hundred thousand
It mainly depends on which form of meliodas is prime I’d say true magic melly at the ending of the series is prime meliodas but some people wagered and have some accurate suggestions as to king of liones melly being the his peak form as for me i say end of the 7DS anime melly is his peak form not. Commmandment of love melly
Prime meliodas Power level IS 485.000 and prime mael Power level IS 485.000 and prime meliodas ( assault mode ) Power level IS 540.000
prime meliodas would bully mael lmao. an injured zeldris blitzed post noon mael. mael caught zeldris off guard in camelot
Many a person would think otherwise.
@Sahibzada Hasanain ominous nebula
I believe prime meliodas in assault mode had a combat class of 500,000 or 600,000 which is equal to the demon king and the supreme deity or slightly above depends on which combat class you think he had I believe that meal had the same combat class for only a minute
I wouldn't say Mel was that strong, he got wiped by the SD and DK in a battle with them.
@@thatguywithapencil I would only say they lost so bad because Elizabeth was mostly a non factor because her magic would be mostly useless against her mother and would do nothing to the demon king and the dk and sd could take blows for each other even though I don't think they would need to in that battle
I’m gonna assume that prime base meli was at around 150k. Then at assault mode he was at like 300k. But he did get wiped out by the DK and SD only in demon mark form so who knows. Maybe he didn’t want to use his asssualt mode oit of fear of becoming evil again
@@jraqz1739 ok that seems reasonable
@@Nathan24634 I find it funny that with all
The hype surrounding meli scaling him against the arch angels that we haven’t ever seen him fight any of them😂. Besides that one time his aura clashed with maels then Maël ran away smh
To this day it's some how people think Mael can win
Can anyone tell meliodas prime power level
it was that he had a power level of 368,000
I honestly couldn't tell you.
@@thatguywithapencil then plzz can u till
Never was that said by any official source material
Yes, it was 360 thousand, his power from himself was 300 000 and his commandment was 60 000
@@ziggz0 What chapter in the manga? Unless you want to tell me you got it from a "power level comparison" video.
Meliodas is more powerful than mael as he doesn't require his beserk state whilst at his prime
BIG FACTS!
Is this gonna be in the anime?
I don’t know. I hope it gets animated, but considering it’s a side story that isn’t that long, I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t.
@@thatguywithapencil is it canon
@@thatguywithapencil and if it was to be animated when do u think it would happen
It was a side story written and illustrated by Nakaba, and in canon Meliodas and Mael fought. This is the depiction of it, so it’s canon.
For when it could appear? Likely when the fight against Estarossa finishes.
No it won’t. This side story was a flashback of Bellion’s from Prisoners of the Sky manga (The movie which had already released). For some stupid and unknown reason, they cut this scene of Mael vs Meliodas out, in addition to other important and wanted parts of that story. Then A1 wonders why the movie failed -.- and left, giving SDS to studio Deen, as we all know, was the stupidest fucking decision and the worst choice to a studio with a reputation for making shitty anime.
If A1 did the movie right, you would’ve seen Mael vs Meliodas, good animation from season 3, and a larger audience for the anime.
Hey that guy with a pencil, I am going to quote this that, meliodas was going to win the battle against Mael, if Mael didn't actually retreat. Also adding up some mathematical discoveries that I've spent my time on meliodas power level in his prime was 270,000 and males was 210,000. Also if you kind of think about their stats. Meliodas can defeat him in speed strength and magical ability so it makes sense that Mael retreat.
That's just my opinion, you make good vids though.
👍
Makes sense, thank you!
I'm late to the party, but those power levels must be way higher than that.
If Ludociel while possessing Margaret was at 201,000 - meaning his true body was likely higher - Meliodas and Mael must be well above that, especially at their peaks.
@@MidorimaI love these conversations and I have my own opinion on this I believe that the archangels while inhabitants of another body have access to half their power so ludo would have a combat class of 402k in his real body and this makes sense if you think the og demon baseline has a combat class of I believe 341k
What’s the background music?
Darkness of the Unknown from Kingdom Hearts 2 pitched up!
srfu bro give me the source that mael fled or run from melodas , mael would oen shot meliodas in his chosen one
it’s in the manga
Where was it stated that mael ran ???
imgur.com/a/fIyqVY1
Fifth to last page. "Repelled an archangel"
Repel definition
www.google.com/search?q=repel&oq=repel+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i433i512j0i512j0i433i512j0i10i512j0i512l5.3123j1j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Aka, Mael ran.
@@thatguywithapencil i just checked and it never says mael ran , just repelled since his darkness didnt go away near mael and we dont even see that happen, they fight and separate thats it
thats not even close to being true mael is the highest goddes accept for the supreme deity
And Meliodas is the highest demon except for the Demon King. What exactly is your point?
Meliodas would clap mael
THANK YOU!
With destroyer power? Sure.
Without it? No.
@@ProjektTakuI mean yeah even if you think noon/the one mael is equal to assault mode meliodas that lasts for a minute and we know based on escanor that the one mode is a drastic power boost and is removed from everything else they have to offer in terms of power
i think mael equal in strength
Just a few comments, regarding this:
-You're taking the fight in the Fairy King's Forest out of context entirely. Yes, Ludociel was very cautious and didn't want to fight Meliodas in that moment, but that ignores the full picture. We just saw how Ludociel, Sariel and Tarmiel got man-handled by the Indura, whom weren't even trying. Following this, Prime Elizabeth intervenes and uses her full power to hold them off and the fight becomes a stalemate. Very quickly, the threat of Elizabeth losing control of these demons is realised and it's why Ludociel was cautious about fighting Meliodas, who is standing right next to Elizabeth. Any conflict, probably would've broken Elizabeth's spell and freed the Indura, whom would've turned around and killed everyone or been a very considerable and dangerous threat. That's why he recruited Sariel and Tarmiel, because it was his best chance to get past Meliodas and to the Indura, who he was eager to kill. He didn't want to fight Meliodas individually in that moment, because it would've been disasterous, he would've freed the Indura and they all would've been in serious danger of being killed. If you placed DM Mel and Ludociel in an empty room, Mel wouldn't really stand a chance, it's just that in this context, the threat of Indura are much more considerable, than Meliodas.
-Noon Mael would stomp even Assault Meliodas, and I'm not sure where you're getting the narrative that he wouldn't. Mael told us, whom Gowther agreed, that his power was comparable to Prime Mel, Prime Eliz and Ludociel. We were also told that Ludociel, and by extension Eliz/Mel that there was no hope for anyone to even dare to match Mael's power when it got very close to noon, or noon itself. The Demon Clan didn't lose hope and still believed they could've won the war when Meliodas betrayed them, killed two commandments and added his own (sure nerfed, but still powerful) power to the Goddesses, yet when the Goddess Clan lost Mael, they became suicidal quite quickly and ended the war, by that narrative, Mael's was more important, because he was more powerful. Hell, the demons told Elizabeth to hand Mel over, so they could kill him, which basically implies once again, his defection was less impactful than Mael's death, because he was weaker. I think when it comes to Mael/Mel, Mael has the upper hand and wins very close to noon, whereas Meliodas would win when it was midnight, or past noon, like in the side story where Mael retreated. Also, you saw Meliodas can just full counter Mael's arsenal, which seems pretty presumptuous when we don't know how Mael's power could work against full counter. Just by existing, he was able to shut down Zeldris Ominous Nebula and bypass the Demon King's magical immunity on Zeldris, with the latter power being superior to Full Counter, so it's a definite possibility that Mael can just bypass it.
I've got more ideas, but I'll be writing an essay even more.. LOL, what do you think?
Okay, I like your ideas, but I disagree.
For the Fairy King's Forest situation, I don't think Ludociel was concerned about distracting Elizabeth and freeing the Indura. He's yelling at her, threatening her to stop, if anything if he had gotten what he wanted, she would have stopped her attack and they all would have had to fight the Indura anyway. He even gets ready to fight the Indura from right behind Elizabeth before Meliodas pops up anyway, so I don't think he really cares about that and that being the basis of his reasoning for calling for help. Another thing, Meliodas blitzes in front of Ludociel while in Demon Mark. Ludociel, he who does the blitzing, gets blitzed by Meliodas. And, if Ludociel really would slap up a Demon Mark Meliodas, he wouldn't have gotten blitzed, called for help, and been sweating at the sight of him. I'm not saying Ludociel wouldn't put up a good fight, but considering we know Meliodas is superior to Zeldris, and Zeldris is at LEAST relative to the Original Demon, who is a rival to Ludociel, it wouldn't be too shocking that Meliodas would be stronger.
The reason I believe Noon Mael would not absolutely murderstomp a serious Meliodas is because all of the statements of equality between the two. They're constantly referenced as equals of importance and rivals rather than Mael being a dominant party, even Mael admits it. And remember, Ludociel says he himself was no match for Mael near noon, but not anyone. Specifically himself, and considering he gets blitzed by just a plain Demon Mark, no Commandment Meliodas, it wouldn't be hard to see that Mael and Meliodas are both beyond Ludociel. And even when Mael mentions that he, his brother, Elizabeth, and Meliodas are all equals, an image of Demon Mark Meliodas appears, not even Assault Mode.
In regards of importance, I still think the edge goes to Meliodas because he was simply that strong. As Estarossa states, the Goddess Clan didn't fight the Demon Clan because of Meliodas, and that includes Mael. Meliodas is the entire reason the Holy War even happened, because he was the great balancer. If any other Demon betrayed, likely even Zeldris, it would have meant nothing because they weren't as strong as Meliodas. No one was. And, even going with Mael's statement, he implies that he was interchangeable. If Elizabeth or Ludociel died, it would have had the same effect, because its a matter of importance rather than pure strength. And the main issue is we have no idea when the side story takes place. It's a fifty fifty shot of it being morning or afternoon, and the main reason I lean towards it actually being morning is because that fight is the reason Meliodas was so feared by the Goddess Clan in the first place. When at a total disadvantage, he scared away their strongest Archangel. It wouldn't have the same relevance if Meliodas scared the strongest Archangel when they were weak. The reason I do not think Full Counter or Meliodas would be affected by Mael's Grace and be negated is because Meliodas' darkness, as stated by Mael himself, stands equal to Mael's Grace. The main reason Zeldris even got negated, is because due to his lack of Commandment and insane fatigue, he lacked the power to stand up to Mael until he unlocked his furious drive. You can even see Meliodas' sword survives the battle with Mael, unlike Zeldris'.
The main reason I give so little credence to Noon Mael being this crazy strong monster who solos everything but the Supreme Deity and the Demon King, is because he never shows up. He's featless. He's an idea. And we know the One is not actually invincible, we've seen that it experiences pain, can get one shot, can get cut up, and even just outright bleed. And pretty much every single "The One" we have seen loses to their respective serious Assault Mode Meliodas, from young Escanor, by his own admittance late aged Escanor, and by scaling Final Shine Escanor. For Mael, we can't really estimate his maximum strength because we never saw it, and little to nothing in the series implies he would dominate his rivals like Elizabeth and Meliodas, who both have proven stronger than Ludociel one way or another, just like Ludociel states Mael would. At best I can give Mael an equal at noon, but inferior at all other times.
Also, don't be afraid to write an essay! I'll read it, keep giving your ideas.
@@thatguywithapencil Thanks for replying! Very well then haha:
-The problem with saying ''well they would have had to fight the Indura anyway'' if Elizabeth's spell got cancelled out kind of ignores how she spent all her energy and most, if not all her magic on that tug of war. If the Indura were freed, Elizabeth was probably out of it and who else would've stopped them? We just saw the archangels get overwhelemed effortlessly, and this was before the Indura got even stronger in reaction to Elizabeth's light. Gloxinia and Drole don't stand a chance and neither does Meliodas. You could infer that he MIGHT be able to stand up to one of the Indura, and that to me is a stretch, but he'd be killed easily against two. If Assault Mode = Prime Elizabeth, then DM Mel doesn't stand a chance. If these empowered Indura were freed, the battle would've been extremely dangerous and messy, and there's a chance that some of them would've been killed. They were clearly a very serious threat, since Ludociel was freaking out hardcore before Elizabeth came in and he's a pretty chill dude who doesn't care unless it's serious.
-''Meliodas blitzed Ludociel''. No? How can you say this when Ludociel wasn't paying any attention to Meliodas? He was staring at Elizabeth and the Indura, not even fighting and was even just standing there not doing or saying anything for a part of it. It's an incredible reach that this Mel, and even AM Mel in my opinion, could blitz Ludociel, someone stated to be his equal when he also has a grace from the Supreme Deity that greatly enhances his speed, especially in a context where Ludociel was more than off-guard. That's a huge reach, now if you compared actual battle feats in speed, I'm down, but this, nada.
-I don't know where you got the idea that Zeldris is relative to the Original Demon. It was made perfectly clear by Zeldris himself, that he was inferior to Cusack, someone with a PL of 160-180k. We don't know the PL of the original demon, but it's definitely superior to Cusack's PL and could be the combined PL of the masters, being 341,000. No WAY, is Zeldris relative to this. You can bring the fight with Mael, but there was no indication that Zeldris trained or got stronger before this battle, plus, Mael in this fight was pretty casual, holding himself back to not kill Zeldris and wanting peace instead of conflict, and it was only when Mael got caught off-guard at Zeldris being incredibly desperate that he was overwhelmed for a brief moment. We saw Mael one-shot the Original Demon, who hypothetically is 341k and Zeldris tells us he's inferior to Cusack, at half of that PL. For Zeldris, his raw strength is far inferior to the other top Goddesses and Demons, but his original magic along with the Demon King's protection are such ''hax'' abilities, it gives him the ability to fight as an equal. Take even daddy's protection away, and he gets stomped pretty damn hard. (Elaborating on this since I saw you think Zeldris could defeat top tier Goddesses in your other video, when IMO, he can't hurt them at all, but neither can they, save Mael).
-Ludociel was rivaling the Original Demon whilst in an astral body that was slowly fading away, weakening him, along with being unable to move from his position due to needing to protect Merlin. He was unable to use his grace to its full power and I have no doubt it would've allowed him to overwhelm the Original Demon, whose attacks Ludociel could've just ''flashed'' away if he was allowed to and not burdened by Merlin.
-I see a flaw in your thinking here. Mael cannot be the dominant party because of equality statements, but Meliodas can be? If Meliodas can match Noon Mael, that just infers he stomps Mael at his base. That's quite hypocritical, don't you think? And if Noon Mael isn't that much more powerful than Base Mael, it doesn't add up with Ludociel's statements, so that isn't an option. The problem with the whole equality narrative comes from how they cannot be perfect individuals, because Mael's PL is always changing. If Mael equals Meliodas at noon, then there is no balance of power, and the demons just stomp 23 hours and 59 minutes of the day. I watched your Goddess VS Demon clan video, and I already know you're thinking the demons are stronger and if the only option the Goddesses had was a 60 second form to fight Meliodas, then the balance of power is so hugely favoured for the demons and the story breaks into itself as to why the demons didn't just crush the Goddesses. If we go for the other side of the coin, where Mael stomps Mel at noon, it's the same issue, but its a less of a problem because its a form that only encompasses like 0.1% of the day and is incredibly predictable, to the point that demons like Mel just wouldn't go near Mael when it came close to noon and only fight him after it.
-The whole statement being drawn with a DM Mel is because of the context of the statement itself. It was referring to Gowther choosing Mael at the time when Meliodas was with stigma, shown by his clothes and DM, since he didn't have AM anymore when he defected. If this isn't enough, we also have Meliodas saying he met Elizabeth on the battlefield when leading the ten commandments, with the drawing being him in his Assault Mode, and later on, he tells us he underestimated her in battle and ended up in a world of pain for it. Connecting the dotes, this means Elizabeth met AM Mel on the battlefield, they had a brief fight, he didn't take her seriously and he ended up regretting it, which is supported even more by the statement of Prime Eliz = AM Mel. If Elizabeth achieved this and Noon Mael is far above her, then Meliodas doesn't stand a chance no matter what form he is in.
-As for the side story, why would Mael retreat if it was morning? He'd be getting stronger over time and it would mean he'd have the advantage of reinforcements being sent. It would've been easy to just wait for noon and then have someone like Elizabeth tag team Meliodas. Logically, there's more reasoning to think it was post-noon, where Mael would be getting weaker and weaker.
-Mael's statement implying he's inter-changeable supports the narrative of Base Mael = Elizabeth/Ludociel, whom equal AM Mel, meaning Noon Mael > Prime Mel.
-Escanor's use of the grace isn't really reflective of Mael, since Escanor's PL comes from the grace alone, whereas Mael has an entire PL of an archangel on top of it (201k+), so saying Mel one-shotting Escanor is supportive of AM Mel = Noon Mael, is the same as me saying Escanor one-shotting AM Mel, means Noon Mael > AM Mel.
-Mael was said by Sariel to have been the strongest of the four archangels, even when graceless, so the statement of comparability must be from when Mael was at his base, as it alligns with Ludociel's statement. Plus, logically, if Elizabeth is the second strongest Goddess, equal to Noon Mael, making her far above Base Mael, why did the Supreme Deity not just give her daughter the sun grace? It makes no sense to not do that, it would've allowed Elizabeth to stomp AM Mel and win the Holy War.
It's just, saying Noon Mael = AM Mel, makes the Supreme Deity look like a moron, the author look like a moron, the demon race look like morons and contradicts the fifty statements we have suggesting the idea that Noon Mael is stronger than Mel.
Long enough for ya? :D
Yes! Finally! A worthy essay! Our discussion will be legendary!
1. I was just referencing your point about Ludociel not attempting to solo Meliodas because of the repercussions of possibly distracting Elizabeth. He was distracting Elizabeth a lot with no fear, so that was just me disagreeing with your point.
2. Ludociel can sense magic. And Meliodas in Demon Mark would radiate loads of magic. We can see that Ludociel doesn't really need to pay attention to react to his opponents, as in 206 Derieri comes up behind him while he's dealing with Monspeet and Ludociel doesn't even look her way before dodging, because he can sense magic. And you're right, Ludociel's Grace does give him insane speed, but that speed has been surpassed. It's been surpassed by multiple people, from Indura Derieri, to Meliodas, to Zeldris, to even Mael. And well, for actual battle feats pertaining to speed Prime Meliodas scales above the Original Demon, whose relative to Ludociel, scales up from Ominous Nebula Zeldris who surpasses Flash, scales to if not above "The One" Escanor, who surpasses Zeldris and Ludociel. Meliodas would be faster than all of them.
3. Zeldris goes head to head with Full Wings King with Chastiefol, through pure strength alone since he can't use Ominous Nebula on an inorganic creature, taking some damage when the Original Demon got his shield pierced and was coughing blood. He slaps around a late morning Escanor, Ludociel, and Merlin all with Ominous Nebula alone, and forces Cusack and Chandler to defend themselves from it. He fights off against Mael. He destroys the Sighing Sage, something Mael and Ludociel couldn't do. He defeats Fleeting Hermit with Ominous Nebula. While I will admit, Zeldris is at his best with his father's amps, that doesn't devalue his strength as a warrior with them and his feats that put him above a lot of other characters. While Zeldris states that Cusack and Chandler are stronger than him, everything he does proves the exact opposite. I understand he has a low power level, but the power level, just like the statement, is contradicted repeatedly enough that I end up ignoring them. I understand if you don't though.
4. I agree that Ludociel in his prime would have done better against the Original Demon, but I still believe he would end up being overwhelmed by the OD's constant power amps.
5. I am a bit confused, but that may just be me being unable to interpret your point. The balance of power comes from the idea that at a time, Mael does equal Meliodas and Meliodas is usually passive when it comes to attacking his foes. He toys around. This is repeated multiple times, stated by Zeldris, seen by Meliodas vs Escanor, and even stated Meliodas himself against Elizabeth. That's the whole reason Mael managed to even escape the first time, because Meliodas let him live. Why didn't the Demons just crush the Goddesses if the power disparity was so large? Because the goddesses could always retreat back to their realm, and even Meliodas had no real answer against the Supreme Deity, a being the Demon King would be required to fight. Also, until Meliodas betrayed, there really was no Holy War, so the crushing of one side or the other wasn't a necessity. And once again, there being such a vast power disparity between the two clans isn't something that does not go unmentioned by the series. Meliodas has to nerf the Demons before he leaves by killing two Commandments and betraying, and the goddesses need to team up with all the other major races in the verse to even stand a chance.
6. Meliodas does not lose Assault Mode when he leaves the Demon Clan. He just refrains from using it, for whatever reason. Likely because he does not need it. Meliodas' commandment is not a prerequisite for AM, as we see him access it multiple times without his Commandment. And for Meliodas' statement of Elizabeth putting him in world of pain, it was simply because he underestimated her, just like he underestimates all his opponents because he is a the strongest. And "being put into a world of pain" does not mean Meliodas lost that fight, it means he was caught lacking and needed to step his game up. The battle is at best is indecisive since we have so little information on it. And in the images that Mael conjures when referencing his shared equality between himself, Meliodas, Ludociel and Elizabeth, he is specifically drawn in Demon Mark, rather than Assault Mode, which actually matches up with the narrative since it was Demon Mark Meliodas that Mael and Ludociel fought, not Assault Mode, which would actually put Elizabeth above Ludociel and Mael, which isn't too shocking since she could restrain two Indura at once when Ludociel was getting slapped.
7. I don't think so, because why would everyone fear Meliodas as unrivaled if he did not fight the strongest at his strongest? If he fought a weakening Mael, there would be not worries about Meliodas amongst the Goddess Clan, but Meliodas was the key to the start of Holy War because he was as strong as the strongest at his strongest. And if Mael was weakening, why would he even bother trying to fight Meliodas? Mael's not dumb, he pulls out when he knows he can't win, and will admit it. Once again, I'm not saying its impossible that it was afternoon, but considering Mael's attitude his initial surprising lack of fear, it seems just as likely that it would be morning, Meliodas would toy with him until the One, be forced to get serious, and Mael would run once he realized he lost all chance of winning, and the fear of Meliodas would spread like a plague.
8. No, I disagree. The statement of Mael likely supports he is interchangeable with the others when in his normal Sun empowered state, but not the One, just as Meliodas is not in Assault mode, as that is the only power he knows relative to the others. He never fought Meliodas at night.
9. Mael's power level only reaches above 201,000 when fueled by Four Commandments. Base Mael is much weaker than that. And I agree with you, I think the One Mael and Prime Assault Mode Meliodas are rivals, not a direct curbstomp like AM Meliodas to Escanor.
10. He is the strongest of the Four Archangels when they are all Graceless, and that is why he is able to manhandle the Commandments. Even Ludociel admits that he is normally stronger than Mael until late morning.
11. Where are these statements that Noon Mael is stronger than AM Meliodas? I best, I'm getting equals. We never see Noon Mael, so we have no idea of his power. He doesn't even have any real statements. I get and respect your interpretation, but I don't think it lines up with what the narrative presents us. And yes, it makes everyone look stupid, but to be fair, a lot of things in Seven Deadly Sins, especially power scaling wise, are pretty dumb. However, we must work with the dumb.
Yes, it was just long enough! Great work, nice points, though I still happen to disagree with a lot of them. You articulate yourself well. Thanks for your initial comment and response!
@@thatguywithapencil
2- Right, Ludociel can sense magic but he isn't concerned or worried about Meliodas presence until he's basically stopping him from killing the bigger threat, being the Indura. I mean, he literally stood in front of Meliodas at the Stigma Headquaters and pronounced the supposed genocide of the demon race, which includes Meliodas obviously. So he doesn't really care for Meliodas nor is he scared. In fact, he's that disconcerned about Meliodas strength that he was happy to go to Camelot where he's supposedly absorbing five commandments and was confident in his ability to kill him. The only time he even ''sweats'' or is worried against Meliodas is when, once again, a bigger threat is right next to him, being the Indura.
2.5 - Just separating this, but just saying Meliodas scales above other characters isn't good enough IMO. Can you reference a particular manga moment, fight, or scene that tells the audience that Meliodas is at XYZ level of speed, and Ludociel is at XYZ level of speed, inferring that one is superior to the other? Maybe because Meliodas isn't a character I care majorly for, but I don't remember a scene that clearly outlines that Meliodas > Ludociel in speed. Can you show me?
3- Zeldris isn't fighting on equal terms with Chastiefol, the spirit spear has the upper hand, although it's not too extreme. Also, you're implying Zeldris could fight toe to toe with a full powered King, which isn't true when he's barely holding his own against a King who can't use more than one form and is losing magic at a rapid rate. Furthermore, Zeldris didn't destroy the spirit spear, whereas the Original Demon was able to, and with regards to the Sighing Sage, Zeldris destroyed it because of his father's power, not by his own strength. His own strength isn't on the same level as the other top tier fighters, its just ON and God are powerful and compliment each other so well, that he's able to fight on the same level and even beyond. Look at Mael, he's able to bypass these abilities and even when holding back, he's overwhelming Zeldris, and his strength is comparable to Ludociel/Elizabeth, who sadly, can't bypass his magical immunity, the thing that saves him the most.
4- Original Demon has no speed feats on the same level as Ludociel, who had to stand still in one spot as a body guard for Merlin, so he wasn't able to use his grace at all, which is vastly about enhancing his speed, which obviously can't be used if he is forced to stay in one spot to act as defence since the OD was tunnelling Merlin. I do think the OD's power amps could be effective, but they're insignificant if Ludociel can just dodge them, and he certainly could since he has speed feats, and the pony has none.
5- So the power balance only ever existed because Meliodas didn't just try, is what you're saying? LOL, sorry, but that's funny to me and is quite silly. We were told numerous times that neither clan was able to destroy each other, which resulted in a temporary ''peace treaty'' between both races when they absolutely hated each other. You reference the Supreme Deity being the only thing stopping Meliodas, which is incorrect, because we were told Elizabeth, Mael and Ludociel (you can debate Ludociel, but not Eliz/Mael) were on the same level as him, and that's shown when Meliodad admits Elizabeth basically stomped him when he didn't fight with his full strength. The Goddesses would've won the holy war if Gowther didn't reinstate the power balance, that was certain because Meliodas broke the balance to begin with.
6- It's funny, because this is one of those points that we're both right on. Meliodas tells us, multiple times, that he's no longer as powerful as he was when leading the ten commandments (e.g AM). He tells Merlin this, as well as Elizabeth, and it's shown by how he was killed by the 10C's, when his full power AM mode would stomp on all of them. But then, the author reveals like 100 chapters later that he used AM and one-shots noon Escanor and he had it all along, which is a ret-con and breaks all consistency. So canonically, you're right to say Meliodas had AM all along, or he didn't. It's just an example, of how the author retconned so many plot points consistently, over and over.
6.5 - Eh, the imagery drawn contradicts itself. It's DM Mel when Mael makes his statement, but then it's AM Mel when the author shows us how Elizabeth and Mel met and fought. So which is it? You could infer that this means Elizabeth is above Mael and Ludociel, and whilst I do think that could be the case for Base Mael/Ludociel, it's very clear Noon Mael is above Elizabeth, who equals AM Mel, so once again, it infers Noon Mael > AM Mel. Maybe all along, it was Elizabeth who was the true equal to Meliodas and Mael wasn't, which tickles my Elizabeth bias, but it's not what the story tells us directly. Either way, Meliodas has an equal, and it's Elizabeth/Mael definitely.
7- Meliodas is only unrivalled in his own clan, against the Goddesses, we were told multiple times that there were warriors capable of fighting him as an equal, or giving him a good challenge. I don't see how anything changes this when it was made clear that this was the case. Meliodas was feared because of his ruthless nature, just like how the demons feared Elizabeth and Mael for slaughtering them with no hesitation. It's not really implied, at least for Elizabeth, that she was scared of Meliodas, or for the AA's.
7.5 -Honestly, the whole side story is lacking SO much information. What time was it when they fought? Why did Mael retreat? Was it out of fear, was it because it was late noon? Was it because Ludociel wanted him back for afternoon tea? Who knows, and that's the problem with it.
9- How is Base Mael below 201k when you've just said he's interchangeable with Ludociel out of his noon form? And Ludociel is far above 201k, since that PL was him nerfed.
10- Huh? Ludociel's statement implies they were on a comparable level, and then it gets close to noon and he has no chance, which supports what Mael said.
11- Mael states that himself, Elizabeth and Ludociel were equal to Meliodas. You can say this is DM Mel, but that doesn't add up with Elizabeth basically stomping AM Mel who didn't take her seriously, and she's said to be equal to Ludociel/Mael, so it HAS to be AM Mel this statement is about. We then have Ludociel saying, that it's only when it gets close to noon that he has no chance of being on par with his brother, which suggests when you connect these statements together, that Noon Mael stands above everyone else.
It's funny because people pull the ''well they're called equals, so you take their strongest forms'' card, but then it doesn't apply to the other side of the coin, about Elizabeth/Ludociel being equal to Meliodas, who are then confirmed to be weaker than Noon Mael, which once again infers Noon Mael > AM Meliodas.
You have statements, with a little bit of connecting the dotes supporting Noon Mael > Meliodas, and none suggesting Noon Mael = Meliodas. This also supports the whole side story with Mael retreating after noon, since he would get weaker and weaker, and there's no benefit to fighting a harder battle when you could just retreat and try again with more favourable circumstances.
Mael is stronger
Meliodas is stronger
Meliodas is only stronger than prime mael currently and prime meliodas is not stronger than mael
Bro im a sds god you need to give me your contact and let me help you please
So your contact
"true magic"
Mael is stronger
Meliodas is stronger