Many thanks for the explanation and for showing so many case studies! I can't express how much you've expanded my perception on panhards as no one (as far as I've searched for) explained in such detail the relation between the panhard and all the other links. It helps so much to have these reference points as up until today it was all a blur for me and all my setups were dictated by luck and chance. Thank you again and have a great day!
Thanks for doing this vid, its a great down to earth explanation. You made it simple to follow with various examples that made it even easier to understand as you were talking. I've taken not just one but several nuggets away to try. Thanks again.
Fuck me thank you for this. Doing links right now and needed a visual of what should be happening. My brain hurts from trying to figure it out in my head.
Thank you for the clarification. I just got some GRC G2 axle housings for my TRX. I'm pulling my hair out trying to center the axle. I opted for the re-branded housings off Amazon. Problem is the kit didn't come with an extended pan hard. The G2 axle pan hard mounts to the c hub. Lucky I had a Ryft steering link that works perfect but I noticed the axle moves to the driver's side at full droop. I centered it at full compression but I'm going to tweak it to center at ride height. I'm very impressed with the design of the housings. Super clean look because the only mounts on the tubes are for the lower links and you can't see them from the front. The pan mount on the c hub requires a longer bar but it also reduced the angle. The axle fully compresses without hitting anything and when flexing the shocks bottom out before lifting the rear wheels. Long story short, you showed me that it's normal for a little side movement. I can stop stressing over it. Center at ride height and run it. I'm going to fab up a fixture to help dial it in. I plan on upgrading my kids rigs with these axles as well. I'll get the eBay ones this time since they come with the extended pan hard. Plus you can get them in silver off eBay.
Thank you master. Kinda funny i asked for a front setup for dummies and poof, there it is. I looked for these tech notes videos and couldnt seem to find them listed. Now i get it. You are da man. I centered the axle at rest as instructed, adjusted the panhard. Compress the front and axle swings to passenger side 4mm. Panhard also hits pumpkin just shy of full compression. I am now wondering if panhard is too high on the chassis pushing the axle, yet I flip it over as you did in this video and kinda notice that arc. Goes to pass side then straight down...very interesting. Have you tried the oero in the spoon yet?
I like your approach to measure distance at full lock to center the axle. I've used the unscientific method of using my eyes to see if the shocks are parallel with the frame at ride height. Measuring should take some of the guesswork out of length adjustments
I learned from years of carpentry and woodworking that "eyes lie." I don't know if it's the fact that our eyes are spread apart (you always check the straightness of a 2x4 with one eye open, after all) but checking for level or evenness by eye almost never seems to work. And when we're looking to see if a front end is 1 or 2 millimeters to one side or the other, that's a tough ask. Don't get me wrong-- I'm an eye-crometer guy from way back, and I pride myself on my (nearly) worthless superpower of "spatial reasoning"-- If I see a hole in a pile of rocks, I can just tell what rock will fit in that hole, and I can Tetris a trunk like nobody's business-- but when it comes to 1 or 2 millimeters on something say 240mm wide... yeah, I'm gonna need to measure that.
Thanks for this, very interesting to listen to and watch. I get a lot of relative movement between my two front wheels, and wondered if it was pan hard related, but now I think it might be the rod ends. Plastic ball in plastic rod end. I think they’ve just warn. Is the rod end something you’d upgrade on an RTR?
If it's the "upgrade" plastic pivot balls, absolutely. Those things will crush if the tiniest amount of torque is applied to them, then the have slop inside the link mount because they don't really fit. I go with Hot Racing or Yeah Racing brass pivot balls for almost everything, because they're cheap, and I've found that brass doesn't get sticky/weird over time like the plated balls can/will. Stainless is also good, but generally a good bit more expensive, and as every rig needs at least 20 of 'em, I go with the cheaper brass.
Nice explanations! I've converted my Element Gatekeeper to Servo on Axle, so I've got more flex and better weight placement. Want to upgrade my driveshafts for more steering angle, can you recommend one specific? Which do you use, can you drive on full steering angle like shown in the video here?
SSD makes driveshafts that will get you about 5 more degrees of "usable" throw-- they can actually turn the wheels to like an 80º angle, but universals don't like to operate at those extreme angles, so you just use EPA to dial back to the maximum usable angle. You will have to either file down the travel stops on the stock C-hubs, or upgrade them to aluminum or brass, which don't have the stops. Using the longest servo horn you can will increase leverage, so the servo can better hold the wheel angle at full lock.
I bought a TRX4 '79 Bronco that had the lift kit on it....the panhard mount is so long it limits travel. I'm going to use this info to try to remedy this, whether it be a new mount and diff links, or just a change in length.
As Traxxas is so good at the front geometry, I still don't know why they didn't just go with a longer link rather than messing with the panhard mount itself. That thing is LONG, there's no way the travel on the left front can be the same as the travel on the right. The high-lift kit is weird. Excellent 110mm shocks, though.
I have a question about which panhard chassis mount to use with AR45 straights with a VS4-10 chassis(I didn't get a panhard mount with my chassis)? Should I buy the stock VS4-10 mount or something different? For me this is "rocket surgery"😂
Stock Vanquish mount will work reasonably well. I use the Element mount (ASC42255) more than any other, as it's a "vertical" mount and allows for the most adjustability.
Many thanks for the explanation and for showing so many case studies! I can't express how much you've expanded my perception on panhards as no one (as far as I've searched for) explained in such detail the relation between the panhard and all the other links. It helps so much to have these reference points as up until today it was all a blur for me and all my setups were dictated by luck and chance. Thank you again and have a great day!
Thanks for doing this vid, its a great down to earth explanation. You made it simple to follow with various examples that made it even easier to understand as you were talking. I've taken not just one but several nuggets away to try. Thanks again.
Thank you long time viewer and I am always learning something. You never get to old to learn.
To my understanding we are in agreement on all points. Always more things to learn! Solid breakdown
thank you from Alberta Canada.
Fuck me thank you for this. Doing links right now and needed a visual of what should be happening. My brain hurts from trying to figure it out in my head.
Good tech stuff once again!
Thank you for the clarification. I just got some GRC G2 axle housings for my TRX. I'm pulling my hair out trying to center the axle. I opted for the re-branded housings off Amazon. Problem is the kit didn't come with an extended pan hard. The G2 axle pan hard mounts to the c hub. Lucky I had a Ryft steering link that works perfect but I noticed the axle moves to the driver's side at full droop. I centered it at full compression but I'm going to tweak it to center at ride height. I'm very impressed with the design of the housings. Super clean look because the only mounts on the tubes are for the lower links and you can't see them from the front. The pan mount on the c hub requires a longer bar but it also reduced the angle. The axle fully compresses without hitting anything and when flexing the shocks bottom out before lifting the rear wheels. Long story short, you showed me that it's normal for a little side movement. I can stop stressing over it. Center at ride height and run it. I'm going to fab up a fixture to help dial it in. I plan on upgrading my kids rigs with these axles as well. I'll get the eBay ones this time since they come with the extended pan hard. Plus you can get them in silver off eBay.
Awsome glad i found your channel
Thank you master. Kinda funny i asked for a front setup for dummies and poof, there it is. I looked for these tech notes videos and couldnt seem to find them listed. Now i get it. You are da man. I centered the axle at rest as instructed, adjusted the panhard. Compress the front and axle swings to passenger side 4mm. Panhard also hits pumpkin just shy of full compression. I am now wondering if panhard is too high on the chassis pushing the axle, yet I flip it over as you did in this video and kinda notice that arc. Goes to pass side then straight down...very interesting. Have you tried the oero in the spoon yet?
Spooky, you did this now, Im looking at replacing my Y link for a panhard.
You seem to like the time on the bench at least as much as you do on the the rocks. I know I do, for the most part. Some just suck to work on. 😏
I like your approach to measure distance at full lock to center the axle. I've used the unscientific method of using my eyes to see if the shocks are parallel with the frame at ride height. Measuring should take some of the guesswork out of length adjustments
I learned from years of carpentry and woodworking that "eyes lie." I don't know if it's the fact that our eyes are spread apart (you always check the straightness of a 2x4 with one eye open, after all) but checking for level or evenness by eye almost never seems to work. And when we're looking to see if a front end is 1 or 2 millimeters to one side or the other, that's a tough ask.
Don't get me wrong-- I'm an eye-crometer guy from way back, and I pride myself on my (nearly) worthless superpower of "spatial reasoning"-- If I see a hole in a pile of rocks, I can just tell what rock will fit in that hole, and I can Tetris a trunk like nobody's business-- but when it comes to 1 or 2 millimeters on something say 240mm wide... yeah, I'm gonna need to measure that.
Thanks for this, very interesting to listen to and watch. I get a lot of relative movement between my two front wheels, and wondered if it was pan hard related, but now I think it might be the rod ends. Plastic ball in plastic rod end. I think they’ve just warn. Is the rod end something you’d upgrade on an RTR?
If it's the "upgrade" plastic pivot balls, absolutely. Those things will crush if the tiniest amount of torque is applied to them, then the have slop inside the link mount because they don't really fit. I go with Hot Racing or Yeah Racing brass pivot balls for almost everything, because they're cheap, and I've found that brass doesn't get sticky/weird over time like the plated balls can/will. Stainless is also good, but generally a good bit more expensive, and as every rig needs at least 20 of 'em, I go with the cheaper brass.
Nice explanations! I've converted my Element Gatekeeper to Servo on Axle, so I've got more flex and better weight placement. Want to upgrade my driveshafts for more steering angle, can you recommend one specific? Which do you use, can you drive on full steering angle like shown in the video here?
SSD makes driveshafts that will get you about 5 more degrees of "usable" throw-- they can actually turn the wheels to like an 80º angle, but universals don't like to operate at those extreme angles, so you just use EPA to dial back to the maximum usable angle.
You will have to either file down the travel stops on the stock C-hubs, or upgrade them to aluminum or brass, which don't have the stops.
Using the longest servo horn you can will increase leverage, so the servo can better hold the wheel angle at full lock.
I bought a TRX4 '79 Bronco that had the lift kit on it....the panhard mount is so long it limits travel. I'm going to use this info to try to remedy this, whether it be a new mount and diff links, or just a change in length.
As Traxxas is so good at the front geometry, I still don't know why they didn't just go with a longer link rather than messing with the panhard mount itself. That thing is LONG, there's no way the travel on the left front can be the same as the travel on the right. The high-lift kit is weird. Excellent 110mm shocks, though.
Another tip, always set the steering link and panhard bar lenght at half the intended suspension compression...
I have a question about which panhard chassis mount to use with AR45 straights with a VS4-10 chassis(I didn't get a panhard mount with my chassis)? Should I buy the stock VS4-10 mount or something different? For me this is "rocket surgery"😂
Stock Vanquish mount will work reasonably well. I use the Element mount (ASC42255) more than any other, as it's a "vertical" mount and allows for the most adjustability.
@@CrawlerCanyon thank you good sir. I'm placing an AMain order on Wednesday, just making sure I get proper parts.