Thanks to all that attended the 'Premier'. I think we had a few people viewing but the ability to comment was a bit tricky and perhaps not user friendly. We hope you enjoyed the episode...Stay Salty...⚓👍
Myself and a mate just watched your video together. We think your videos are very well put together and it keeps the interest on a high. But we both concluded in high winds like over 20 knots with the original gunter there are more options possible. Because there are 3 sails, 3 configurations thus giving more options in high winds. Which is why we own Pathfinders and Navigators. Above 25knots we have found that the main is dropped and a small storm Bermuda rig is hoisted and the jib is reefed which is needed to point. To conclude the Navigator design is very good, she was designed as a gunter and Bermuda rig racing training dinghy and it's no surprise that the lug sail also works. Love your videos and thanks for your good work.
Thanks Ross. Appreciate your comment (and your videos too!). I agree having the extra sail options is a bonus...BUT...let's ask the question why JW's last two designs (that he describes as expedition craft) have a balanced lug with mizzen? I reckon that properly reefed lug can be just as useful as a jib and jigger set up.
A really interesting conversation! My Navigator has a standing lug rig with jib and mizzen (per plan) and I can easily have it in the water in 20-30 minutes when I'm sailing locally and don't have a long way to trailer (it took some practice to get to that point). I see a few comments about the time it takes to set up a boat with the gunter rig and I'm wondering about set up time with the lug rig. I will say that after lots of playing around with different configurations with the 3 sails, my heavy wind set up (20 + gusts to 30mph) tends to be a double reefed main and mizzen with the jib rolled up. My experience is that with jib and mizzen alone, big puffs will pull me off the wind unless I'm constantly working the jib, which gets to be a lot of work. With that said, the jib is great when manovauring in tight quarters, or when approaching a dock, or landing, with the wind behind. In those conditions I'll pack away the main and sail in with mizzen and jib, with the ability to furl the jib in seconds. I'm not considering changing now, but when I need to order new sails in a few years, I'll be thinking hard on this.
I still haven't found where you make live chat comments! I would have thought the gunter would be quite a bit better to windward. But Mike Storer, with his followers have tweaked the way you rig, tension, sail the balanced lug rig. It gets close to triangle sails pointing, with all it other advantages intact, like great offwind performance, with lower centre of effort short mast & no stays. Nice video Matt.
Another great video, the lug looks great. I so very nearly bought a Navigator before the Shrimper presented itself and, whilst it's doing everything we want at the moment, I can see a John Wellsford boat in my future.
Great video, this is what I was looking for a couple of years ago when I built a Navigator and was deciding on the rig. I picked the gaff rig with mizzen and sold it not long after I built it, as it took so long to set it up. If I had of seen this I would have gone with the balanced lug as this is what I had on my Goat Island Skiff. I hope other Nav builders see this as the boat is fantastic but a simpler rig means less time on the beach and more on the water. I have really enjoyed your previous videos and look forward to your future adventures.
Great, now you’ll be able to get it onto the trailer, I’m coming to Hobart in Jan, I’ll keep an eye out for you if you’re going to the Wooden Boat Show. Regards Ian
You've got it too easy down there. All you Tasmanians seem to do all day is go sailing or fishing. Wonderful time management skills, if you ask me. Thanks for the video.
Hi from Switzerland. Looks great and could perfectly fit my needs for a possible Pathfinder for singlehanded coast sailing around Europe. Have to see how to get some plans for such a rig, before start building. In the Pathfinder there are 2 different mast positions too. Have to figure out which position would be the best for a lug yawl.
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sxHonestly, I like how it looks. Like a mini schooner or something like that. I'm downsizing to this boat, but still want the full experience. I may change my mind after I pick it up.
I love discussions about different rigs on small boats. That's sort of hard to find here on TH-cam. I sail a cats paw dinghy with a sliding ghunter that's right out of a Herreshoff book. It's a beauty and sails quite close to the wind. It also spills wind in big gusts. I feel quite safe in that boat. It's cat rigged, so there no jib. It's very easy to setup and go, or to drop sail if necessary.
Thanks for the comment. The discussion is a good one...as the 'dinghy cruising' movement seems to be growing, so does the move towards a more traditional rig; because they are better suited to cruising. You mentioned safety and I think that's the most important feature of any small boat design. Thanks again...stay salty!
I too have a gunter rigged Navigator that I'm keen to change into a balanced lug rig. Did you simply use the mast step for the gunter rigged yawl configuration? Or did you set up a new mast step or did the original builder have the foresight to add both mast steps during the build. Forgive me if this is covered in the video. Thanks in advance!
Excellent video Mat really enjoyed it and interesting to see what your thoughts on the Lug change over.Will be interesting to see what you think in some stiff breeze.
Really enjoy your boating down there in Tassy, the Welshford boats are extremely well thought out. Your Navigator is a luvely vessel, works well with the lug rig & mizzen. Practically speaking can you camp on the Navigator, looks a little tight? Thanks for taking the time to make these vids, cheers
Thank you for another great vid! Having grown up racing fibreglass 1 design dinghies and yachts, it's fascinating to learn about different approaches to sailing rigs and performance. Please keep up the good work! Hey, what type of dinghy was that lug rig actually meant for?
Another great video...question though, Navigator rigged as shown or the SCAMP for coastal cruising? Which would handle rougher conditions better? Does the SCAMPs water ballast make it better in tough conditions? Thanks
Great question. I think i'd prefer to be in the SCAMP if the sh!t hit the fan. She has better self righting ability and the self draining cockpit is a major safety feature. However...I prefer sailing the Nav in rough conditions because she's more comfortable due to being a bigger boat. She's also MUCH faster, so you'd hopefully be able to get out of the rough weather faster. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Yes, the lugsail rig makes much more sense imo, the gunter sail on the Navigator whilst good, took far too long to setup and then unrig at the boat ramp. A day-sailer should spend most of the day actually sailing.
More Info - PLEASE - can you tell us more about the measurements of the sale you used here? God willing, I'll need to get one some day! Thanks so much.
Hey mate. As mentioned in the video, the lug sail wasn't designed for the Nav but works fine. I suggest sending Michael Storer an email at Really Simple Sails and he will design you something for your boat. Remember; you might need to move your mast position and perhaps make it free-standing. reallysimplesails.com/
I will be honest, I have a series 1 GP14 that somehow emigrated to the US. As I often sail her solo, I find her a little headstrong and difficult to manage when the wind pops up. Even reefed down, she is a handful. I have thought of talking to Michael at RSS about designing a lug rig for her. Even if it is the same amount of sails, putting all the canvas closer to the water should help keep her right side up, non?
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx I am in a dilemma. I have found one 16 feet day sailer and a wind rider 17, so a more detailed answer , would help me a lot. Thanks in advance
@@gregory1778 Hmmmm. It's tricky for me to give you my thoughts on your dilemma, because there's so many personal reasons why we all own and sail the boat we have. I like the Hobie because it's perhaps the most versatile craft I own. You don't need a trailer. You don't need a motor. You don't need wind. And you don't need to be an expert sailor to reach speeds in excess of 10 knots. It's really fun. Very wet...but fun. Brilliant boat IMHO.
Have you considered the junk rig? I've seen 15' PocketShips and even smaller dinghies with junk sails. It's not as simple as a lug sail, so maybe not worth the "upgrade" for you, but it has some advantages, such as quick and easy reefing (safety). Modern cambered junk sails can also point high, so that drawback doesn't apply anymore. Nothing wrong with a lug sail though, they're simple and beautiful. After all, a junk sail is basically a balanced lug sail with battens, sheetlets and lazy jacks.
It kind of does to my surprise. The Navigator was designed as a "sail trainer" though, so I suppose the more options the better with the designed Gunter rig. A balanced lug is hard to beat though for power generated from sq. ft. and extreme simplicity.
Thanks to all that attended the 'Premier'. I think we had a few people viewing but the ability to comment was a bit tricky and perhaps not user friendly. We hope you enjoyed the episode...Stay Salty...⚓👍
Thanks! Hey what was the slender dory-looking boat with all the brightwork in this video? Gorgeous.
@@makewhatyoulike119 An Oughtred design from memory
Another great episode, and I'm loving my standing lug yawl with no bowsprit, no shrouds and no fuss
Myself and a mate just watched your video together. We think your videos are very well put together and it keeps the interest on a high. But we both concluded in high winds like over 20 knots with the original gunter there are more options possible. Because there are 3 sails, 3 configurations thus giving more options in high winds. Which is why we own Pathfinders and Navigators. Above 25knots we have found that the main is dropped and a small storm Bermuda rig is hoisted and the jib is reefed which is needed to point. To conclude the Navigator design is very good, she was designed as a gunter and Bermuda rig racing training dinghy and it's no surprise that the lug sail also works. Love your videos and thanks for your good work.
Thanks Ross. Appreciate your comment (and your videos too!). I agree having the extra sail options is a bonus...BUT...let's ask the question why JW's last two designs (that he describes as expedition craft) have a balanced lug with mizzen? I reckon that properly reefed lug can be just as useful as a jib and jigger set up.
A really interesting conversation! My Navigator has a standing lug rig with jib and mizzen (per plan) and I can easily have it in the water in 20-30 minutes when I'm sailing locally and don't have a long way to trailer (it took some practice to get to that point). I see a few comments about the time it takes to set up a boat with the gunter rig and I'm wondering about set up time with the lug rig. I will say that after lots of playing around with different configurations with the 3 sails, my heavy wind set up (20 + gusts to 30mph) tends to be a double reefed main and mizzen with the jib rolled up. My experience is that with jib and mizzen alone, big puffs will pull me off the wind unless I'm constantly working the jib, which gets to be a lot of work. With that said, the jib is great when manovauring in tight quarters, or when approaching a dock, or landing, with the wind behind. In those conditions I'll pack away the main and sail in with mizzen and jib, with the ability to furl the jib in seconds. I'm not considering changing now, but when I need to order new sails in a few years, I'll be thinking hard on this.
I still haven't found where you make live chat comments!
I would have thought the gunter would be quite a bit better to windward. But Mike Storer, with his followers have tweaked the way you rig, tension, sail the balanced lug rig. It gets close to triangle sails pointing, with all it other advantages intact, like great offwind performance, with lower centre of effort short mast & no stays. Nice video Matt.
Thanks mate. Yeah, the chat was a fizzer unfortunately...I think the way YT sets it up is terrible. Apologies. Thanks again. Mat & Jo.
A hug from everyone here in Brazil❤
Another great video, the lug looks great. I so very nearly bought a Navigator before the Shrimper presented itself and, whilst it's doing everything we want at the moment, I can see a John Wellsford boat in my future.
Thank you. The Welsford boats are certainly worth looking at. At the very least I recommend test sailing a SCAMP and Navigator.
Great video, this is what I was looking for a couple of years ago when I built a Navigator and was deciding on the rig. I picked the gaff rig with mizzen and sold it not long after I built it, as it took so long to set it up. If I had of seen this I would have gone with the balanced lug as this is what I had on my Goat Island Skiff. I hope other Nav builders see this as the boat is fantastic but a simpler rig means less time on the beach and more on the water. I have really enjoyed your previous videos and look forward to your future adventures.
Thanks mate. Appreciate your comments. I cut the old bowsprit down yesterday...so the lug is staying.
Great, now you’ll be able to get it onto the trailer, I’m coming to Hobart in Jan, I’ll keep an eye out for you if you’re going to the Wooden Boat Show.
Regards Ian
I like what you have done with the rig.😊
You've got it too easy down there. All you Tasmanians seem to do all day is go sailing or fishing. Wonderful time management skills, if you ask me. Thanks for the video.
The water is very cold all year round , seasoned NSW types get a shock . . me from NT would snap freeze
Hi from Switzerland. Looks great and could perfectly fit my needs for a possible Pathfinder for singlehanded coast sailing around Europe. Have to see how to get some plans for such a rig, before start building. In the Pathfinder there are 2 different mast positions too. Have to figure out which position would be the best for a lug yawl.
I'm picking up a scamp 12 this summer. It has a balanced lug. I plan to add a mizzen and bowsprit to it. Thanks for this post. It was timely.
Curious…why are you adding a bowsprit to a SCAMP?
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sxHonestly, I like how it looks. Like a mini schooner or something like that. I'm downsizing to this boat, but still want the full experience. I may change my mind after I pick it up.
I love discussions about different rigs on small boats. That's sort of hard to find here on TH-cam. I sail a cats paw dinghy with a sliding ghunter that's right out of a Herreshoff book. It's a beauty and sails quite close to the wind. It also spills wind in big gusts. I feel quite safe in that boat. It's cat rigged, so there no jib. It's very easy to setup and go, or to drop sail if necessary.
Thanks for the comment. The discussion is a good one...as the 'dinghy cruising' movement seems to be growing, so does the move towards a more traditional rig; because they are better suited to cruising. You mentioned safety and I think that's the most important feature of any small boat design. Thanks again...stay salty!
I too have a gunter rigged Navigator that I'm keen to change into a balanced lug rig. Did you simply use the mast step for the gunter rigged yawl configuration? Or did you set up a new mast step or did the original builder have the foresight to add both mast steps during the build. Forgive me if this is covered in the video. Thanks in advance!
There was a larger Hobie cat type on a trailer at the local tip shop north east NSW . . that I could't tip over myself in a fit . . even for a song
Turned back over small hire cats off of Mindil beach Darwin NT back in day . . huge fun
Can't recall his name , youngest circumnavigator for a time . . him rode a Hobie cat along the north east Oz coast as kids
Excellent video Mat really enjoyed it and interesting to see what your thoughts on the Lug change over.Will be interesting to see what you think in some stiff breeze.
Thanks Bruce. Appreciate your comment. With respect and regards, Mat & Jo
Really enjoy your boating down there in Tassy, the Welshford boats are extremely well thought out. Your Navigator is a luvely vessel, works well with the lug rig & mizzen. Practically speaking can you camp on the Navigator, looks a little tight? Thanks for taking the time to make these vids, cheers
Thanks mate. Yes, two can sleep on the Nav. We have sleeping platforms that span across the cockpit.
Thank you for another great vid! Having grown up racing fibreglass 1 design dinghies and yachts, it's fascinating to learn about different approaches to sailing rigs and performance. Please keep up the good work! Hey, what type of dinghy was that lug rig actually meant for?
Thanks for the feedback. The sail was for a a 'Dory' type hull project that we abandoned.
Stellar production as usual Matt! How’s the new set heaving to?
Thanks mate. Heaving to with a mizzen is still fairly straight forward. Head to wind and sheet the mizzen in.
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx thanks mate!
Another great video...question though, Navigator rigged as shown or the SCAMP for coastal cruising? Which would handle rougher conditions better? Does the SCAMPs water ballast make it better in tough conditions? Thanks
Great question. I think i'd prefer to be in the SCAMP if the sh!t hit the fan. She has better self righting ability and the self draining cockpit is a major safety feature. However...I prefer sailing the Nav in rough conditions because she's more comfortable due to being a bigger boat. She's also MUCH faster, so you'd hopefully be able to get out of the rough weather faster. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Yes, the lugsail rig makes much more sense imo, the gunter sail on the Navigator whilst good, took far too long to setup and then unrig at the boat ramp. A day-sailer should spend most of the day actually sailing.
Great video. I'm building a Navigator now. Which RSS sail did you use? What boat was it designed for?
Thanks mate. It was for a dory...just ask Michael to design you something around 100sqft. I think JW has a Lug sail plan on file for the Nav though.
The famous Little Swanport Coconuts!
We sailed a fair way offshore for that pic. ⚓️👍🏾
I'll get there one day!@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx
a high angle gaff rig gets the beat of each.
Fun. Have you tried a cat ketch rig like the Norwalk Islands Sharpie? Just wondering…
My mate I sail with has a NIS…so I have a fair understanding of that design.
More Info - PLEASE - can you tell us more about the measurements of the sale you used here? God willing, I'll need to get one some day! Thanks so much.
Hey mate. As mentioned in the video, the lug sail wasn't designed for the Nav but works fine. I suggest sending Michael Storer an email at Really Simple Sails and he will design you something for your boat. Remember; you might need to move your mast position and perhaps make it free-standing. reallysimplesails.com/
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx Thanks so much!
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx Yes, so maybe John Welsford should be asked for that. I really love the idea for a possible Pathfinder.
I will be honest, I have a series 1 GP14 that somehow emigrated to the US. As I often sail her solo, I find her a little headstrong and difficult to manage when the wind pops up. Even reefed down, she is a handful. I have thought of talking to Michael at RSS about designing a lug rig for her. Even if it is the same amount of sails, putting all the canvas closer to the water should help keep her right side up, non?
Absolutely send Michael a message. He’s great to deal with and very knowledgeable.
What would you use the shorter bowsprit for? Could you fly an assymetrical kite? (I'm guessing longer bowsprit the better for that)
More for aesthetics really. I’ll try an assy but might need some running back stays!! 👍🏾⚓️
Have always been interested in trimarans. What made you choose the Hobie over the Weta?
We’ve got a WETA too, but very different boats.
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx was you joking or serious when you commented that you prefer Hobie over navigator?
@@gregory1778 maybe. 😜
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx I am in a dilemma. I have found one 16 feet day sailer and a wind rider 17, so a more detailed answer , would help me a lot. Thanks in advance
@@gregory1778 Hmmmm. It's tricky for me to give you my thoughts on your dilemma, because there's so many personal reasons why we all own and sail the boat we have. I like the Hobie because it's perhaps the most versatile craft I own. You don't need a trailer. You don't need a motor. You don't need wind. And you don't need to be an expert sailor to reach speeds in excess of 10 knots. It's really fun. Very wet...but fun. Brilliant boat IMHO.
Have you considered the junk rig? I've seen 15' PocketShips and even smaller dinghies with junk sails. It's not as simple as a lug sail, so maybe not worth the "upgrade" for you, but it has some advantages, such as quick and easy reefing (safety). Modern cambered junk sails can also point high, so that drawback doesn't apply anymore. Nothing wrong with a lug sail though, they're simple and beautiful. After all, a junk sail is basically a balanced lug sail with battens, sheetlets and lazy jacks.
Hey mate. Yes, we had a small junk dinghy at one point…too many strings for me but appreciate the rig.
The navigator looks so much better with a lug sail
It kind of does to my surprise. The Navigator was designed as a "sail trainer" though, so I suppose the more options the better with the designed Gunter rig. A balanced lug is hard to beat though for power generated from sq. ft. and extreme simplicity.