The Ultimate Undertale & Deltarune Iceberg CORRECTED! - What Chapter 2 CHANGED!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Deltarune Chapter 2 changed up a lot! But it didn’t change nearly everything. In this video, I’ll be going over what Chapter 2 changed about the previous iceberg!
The original iceberg:
icebergcharts....
0:00 - Intro
1:01 - What Chapter 2 Changed
23:58 - Outro
Sources:
docs.google.co...
Prunsel creator noticing my iceberg video!:
Ta...
What is Ralsei hiding from us?:
• Video
#Undertale #Deltarune #Icebergs #IcebergChart #IcebergExplained
On the “Ralsei is untrustworthy” part, it is important to note that Ralsei and Lancer/Rouxls are from two different dark world/fountains. Ralsei says that his fountain is made of pure darkness and thus can host anyone without them turning to stone. This may also mean a darkner from that fountain could survive in any other fountain as well.
Exactly! I've been trying to tell people this for ages!
Good theory
Only that he's the only darkener from said fountain (unless the dummy is too?)
@@theclothpuppeteer8869 that is another good thing to note. It doesn’t necessarily mean that What I said isn’t that the case, but it does mean that there is no known way to test it. I would personally say the fact everyone can survive in the ‘pure’ dark world would probably be evidence enough to suggest the other way around as well, but unless other denizens of that dark world appear we don’t have enough evidence to prove either way. It also could suggest that Ralsei is possibly a lightener, seeing as he arrived behind Suzy and Kris, and the only entrance we’ve seen in that direction was from the light world. But the one I listed above is the one I believe most plausible.
@@evanis012 I'm not denying your assumption, but as per now the only known darkener from there is fluffyman.
Also I will deny the possibility of Ralsei being a lightener, but he might be a mixture of both?
People forget that even Berdly was going to create a dark fountain, before being stopped by Ralsei.
Enough will and determination can form one, and maybe Kris just took that information and applied it.
Finally someone who said it, I think the true reason he did it was to prove to Undyne the existence of Dark Worlds and also to get more info about the knight.
My personal take is that Kris sees these "adventures" as the only way they have to make Friends
In Ch 1 they befriend the school bully and makes a lot of friends
And in Ch 2 they actually befriend the unsufferabme nerd from their class and rekindles their distanced friendshio with their childhood friend
Kris probably thinks these Dark World adventures are the only way they have to make new friends and help others, and possibly they have something in mind for Toriel and maybe Undyne too, and think as long as they seal the Dark Fountain in the end every time, The Roaring wont happen
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard that’s a actually pretty good theory
@@AE68961 *they
@@MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard thats really well said!
Kris isn't the "KNIGHT"
But they could be a "SQUIRE"
i hope thats canon
@@silentchatterbox52 same honestly.
That could actually explain Kris' Dark World armor. In terms of body protection it could be... Way better.
But, if he were a squire, who traditionally weren't really given the greatest equipment, it could make way more sense why Kris' armor is missing a few components.
That was an interesting theory. Plus, Kris's armor looks more like a squire than a knight.
i dont think Kris might be the Knight all together. remember chapter 1's "cliffhanger" was very misleading as well. It could be that
I think its way more likely that Kris just learned how to open Dark Fountains himself. INFACT The Queen wanted to Use Noelle to open a Dark Fountain in the same exact way which she explained exactly in detail to him and Noelle. The reason why he did what he did is very likely that just like Susie he found these adventures to be very cool and thanks to these fountains opening they had a lotta fun. Its just like in Chapter 1 where people thought that Kris went on to kill somebody, or that it was just a placeholder cutscene for the Demo. While the real reason was a lot simpler.
Meanwhile The Knight seems to be an entity of greater power and awarness than Kris. Implied that any contact with him makes an individual self-aware that they are in the game. Whatever he's doing makes them go insane and obssessed. Kris doesnt have that kind of power, because he's a pawn himself. OUR pawn that we control in the game.
@@EpicGamer-fl7fn the misleading cant be happening forever
its probably just that because toby wrote the story after chapter 1 and he cant just remove a scene from a published game he just made it a joke
My take on the Ralsei "Lets think about what Susie and Noelle are doing" scene is that Ralsei is creating an opportunity to ask Kris if they're being controlled or not. Ralsei throughout chapter 1 would always stress that Kris' choices mattered, and that this is important. Perhaps, the human making choices is integral to stopping the roaring or whatever. Ralsei is wrong about Kris' choices mattering, its the players, but Ralsei doesn't know this until he gets a chance to actually ask Kris about it. When he says "And that's why...", thats not him explaining something, thats his reaction to a revelation, and its not the end of a sentence, since Susie falls on him before he can finish.
really well put and interesting!! aa
Ralsei doesn't say "And that's why...", he says "So that's why, Okay Kris?"
i think ralsei is telling KRIS the truth, but not the player. and knows that, should the player find out, they would erase the save
I like to think that “Your choices don’t matter” is about Kris.
it is NOT about the player.
even beyond snowgrave, it’s obvious that the soul, you, are in direct control over kris, except for when they take action on their own. Kris is (mostly) powerless but to do as we command. Kris can’t make choices. We can.
So its kris’s choice that matters instead or am i stupid?
@@yusufthecatwithagun Your choices matter, Kris' choices don't.
@@dronz3881 yea
“No one can choose who they are in this world. “
But others can choose for you as shown by snowgrave
Interesting take on it, what I like to think is more pointing towards the fact that; regardless of your choices, the full game will always end the same way.
6:03 After the arcade game you can either choose "perish" or "bosom". If you choose "bosom" Ralsei will blush. Maybe Kris was supposed to blush as well?
or maybe it was kris blushing out of embarrassment for having their self-esteem crushed by not being able to reach the controls
@@lysandre1861 I wish I would blush everytime my self-esteem gets crushed. At least I would look cute and not like a miserable creature...
“It means tity”
It could’ve also been for when the Fun Gang worked together to play the game.
@@wawayalert "YEAH WE KNOW!!"
I'll say, the Blushing Kris thing might've been them being embarrassed from losing.
i'd say it'd be when you answer "bossom" to the queen
@@grapejuicesoda4429 or when Ralsei hugs Kris after the Spamton NEO! fight.
Or after being embraced by Susie during the arcade fight (let me dream)
@@miavalentine8638 down bad
@@miavalentine8638 pog
Ok, no.
Mettaton hiring Muffet isn't a mystery. During your fight at the end of the CORE, before turning EX, he straight up says "I WAS THE ONE WHO HIRED EVERYONE TO KILL YOU."
Flowey would have no reason to hire someone to kill you, as he knows full well that Muffet wouldn't be able to kill you. No one is. He knows Frisk is immortal, so why bother?
@@starless267 Premiered TV-WISE. He's never shown EX on TV but we know for a FACT that he's used it before.
During Undyne's hangout if you inspect the piano she'll say something along the lines of "One time one of Alphys' friends came over and all he did was sit seductively on the piano, feeding himself grapes."
This is undoubtably Mettaton, because the only other friends Alphys has are Catty and Bratty.
Mettaton doesn't have a mouth in his box form, so he had to be in his EX form in order to do this.
He was probably going around the underground hiring people to kill you in his EX form as to not get recognized and spoil the show for any bystanders.
@@stef__an didnt official art work come out showing mettaton in his square form on the piano? Also, undyne doesnt have a tv, so she wouldnt have recognized him. The feeding himself grapes thing was a joke thing. How would a robot eat anyways? If he's a ghost, that runs on magic and electricity (which we know from his battery depleting), why would he eat AT ALL. Also, the line about transforming wouldnt make sense either, since if he was going around in his ex form, why would he change back while still in view of muffet? And lastly, no one ever mentions muffet after the fight, not alphys, nor papyrus or undyne, the people literally watching the show from their tv. You'd think you'd at least get a tweet from alphys about how the fight was weird or something. But we get nothing showing us what happens in the spider nest. Its completely private, while the core was done for show. Also, how would mtt reach his switch? He doesnt seen to change after that battle until post time skip in the credits. So how would he change? And the last thing that would imply "incognito mode" is a pink robot with amazing legs.
@@funtimegamer8733
> didnt official art work come out showing mettaton in his square form on the piano?
official art isn't canon art, toby only considers the game itself canon. plus most official art is just really good fanart approved by fangamer
> Also, undyne doesnt have a tv, so she wouldnt have recognized him
and she... doesn't. she just says "alphys' friend"
And since every other argument is about the logic of it, I can't exactly argue that. Indeed, most of it doesn't make much sense, but Mettaton fits the role WAY better than Flowey or Gaster.
@@stef__an mettaton is mettaton. He doesnt need a mouth to eat grapes
Metatton saying "I WAS THE ONE WHO HIRED EVERYONE TO KILL YOU" would technically be a correct statement on his end if he didn't know about Muffet fighting Frisk.
Either that or this line was written before Muffet was added to the game thanks to Kickstarter and this line from Mettaton was simply never revised
Another weird thing that i found about Ralsei is how he reacts after Spamton NEO, he seems really quick to dismiss him as just a "corrupted program" while both Susie and Kris are visibly disturbed by him and the things he said. Its just odd considering how empathetic Ralsei usually is with literally any other character, even to someone genuinely monstrous as the Chaos King, perhaps there's something about Spamton that Ralsei knows about that he doesnt want Kris and Susie to know about. Just a thought.
Yeah it feels like being "nice" will get him what he wants, whatever it is. And now that he's convinced Kris and Susie to do exactly that, he must protect the status quo. Nothing is weird or different or exceptional because he needs you three to keep going as you are going right now.
Honestly, at this point, I feel like the "Ralsei is suspicious" thing is going to end in a bait and switch where it turns out that Ralsei was either not hiding anything or was hiding stuff for justifiable reasons. Like, the game kind of goes out of its way to subvert your expectations in many ways, I think playing Ralsei's suspicious qualities straight and making him secretly evil would just be, like. Really dumb and boring
Okay i have reasons to support this
Azreal was the name of an angel of the bible which Asriel was based of
Ralsei could be based on "razeal" whos the "Angel of wisdom" who has the titles of "keeper of secrets" (perassumbly god's secrets) and "ruler of the 2nd heaven" hes also the writer of the "book of magic"
If Ralsei's story matchs the angel in any way, then Ralsei will try to help humanity reach greater heights just to be punished for it (think Prometheus giving fire to humanity type stuff)
Specifically, the angel tried to do something without god's notice,
Ralsei could be trying to do something under our's
@@twinkiesmaster69 Oh that's really cool! Good catch!
I agree. The first time I noticed ralsei being weird was when he didnt mention anything about the fountain in castle town. Like, bro, why dont we deal this one? Why cant we enter the castle? Chapter two explains that. This time around, he explains why we have to close the fountains AT ALL. It feels more like Ralsei is a reflection of the awkward and relatable kris, since kris seems to be a bit of an odd ball, go has trouble making friends and has trouble with staying organized. It also isnt said, but kris seems a little... out of place in the dreemurr family. His side of the room is empty, meanwhile asriel's got a damn collection of trophy's, making it look like kris is not very involved in the towns affairs. Everywhere, people usually ask about asriel, and rarely kris. So, I think ralsei might be trying to be more like asriel then kris, despite being like kris at heart.
I think it’s gonna be a bait and switch, where Ralsei had all of the info in the manual and just thought you read it.
In the cut manual you can actually see that the main fountain gives him form. I imagine he doesn’t want you to close the main one, because that would end his existence, and would stop there from being a home all darkness could go to. This home doesn’t seem to disrupt the balance of light and dark, because it’s only a singular fountain. So, I think he may be acting in good intention, but be withholding information. I certainly hope he doesn’t get turned into a bad guy.
Oh toby you classic dog :)
So it seems that there is definitive proof against the Kris is the knight theory. At around 23 minutes into the pre-anniversary stream segment where toby was showing off the unused songs, during game main theme (piano sketch) you get to see tobys thoughts on it. I am not going to write everything word for word so just go to the stream to read it all (for anyone reading this comment please check out the stream it's so good) but pretty much he said that he imagined it as an animated intro for the game. He said that during the end part he wanted everyone (likely with Kris included) to run up stairs and they see the knight, standing in a white door at the top of the stairs. If everyone saw the knight and Kris is the knight, that would not make sense. Kris most likely listened to Queen's speech and made a dark fountain, wanting another adventure. The most interesting thing is the white door, because who else is connected to a white door other than a *certain mysterious man.*
He didn’t say the Kris would run up the stairs. Which would make more sense, the playable character being at the top of the stairs in the opening, or a faceless antagonist we have only heard snippets about? Revealing even the Knight’s outline would be a big reveal, and people would easily figure out who it is. I think Toby was actually confirming that Kris was the Knight. Or I could be wrong and it was just an idea, and Toby hadn’t fully thought it out.
Yeah, fair enough I'm just guessing that "everyone" includes Kris. I still personally don't think Kris is THE knight since Queen said anyone with determination can create a fountain (she could be wrong though) since I feel like chapter 2 would be too early for a knight reveal. But yeah that could just be an idea toby didn't fully think through and I'm just overthinking everything.
I don't think scrapped content barely described would be definitive proof, but It's thinking I wouldn't have made. I Think whats in the game it's being put to make you doubt who's really the knight
This might be pedantic, but Gaster is associated with a grey door, not a white door
Toby cannot be trusted. He said he wouldnt nake undertale two until people stopped drawing "fanart" of toriel, and yet here we are. Also, in queens speech, she shows us that the knight used a knife to make the fountain, and it looks a lot like kris' knife. Also, we know that kris has interacted with fountains before, because of their old save file and the text when closing the fountain saying something like this feels familiar.
The blushing walking sprites could possibly have been for the meeting with the queen as if I remember correctly they’re labeled for that cutscene!
It’s possibly the two would blush if you picked the bosom option.
I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case when I picked the bosom option. Although I thought the response to the option was hilarious. Queen just says something about bosom meaning titty like a google search.
It means tity
@@betelgoose9712 Yeah I was thinking maybe she’d say titty then the two would’ve blushed after it😅
@@ziongamer6905 I would've died if that happened.
I feel like Mike might be the main antagonist of Ch 3. Jevil, a secret boss, foreshadowed Queen, and Spamton, a secret boss, tells Kris not to trust Mike and to not believe what they see on tv. At the end of Ch 2, when Kris opens a dark fountain, the tv starts smiling. I feel that this hints to a tv adventure, where we will face mike, as either the main antagonist, or at least the next secret boss. This is just a spur of the moment thought so I may have missed a lot disproving it.
A room in the chapter 3 screenshots is called the green room which could be a hint to more TV theming
@@theReincarnate yeah, i pointed it out to my discord friends as soon as I saw it.
16:06 this is especially interesting because when you try to make her cast Snowgrave during the Berdly fight, she'll protest at first, saying she doesn't know that spell, but says no such thing if her first instance of Snowgrave is cast against the Maice. It's possible this is just an oversight in the game's writing, but it could also imply that Noelle KNOWS what Snowgrave is and KNOWS it will be fatal, and so she is lying in the hopes that she won't have to cast it on her friend.
Not gonna lie, the conversation between King and Queen is adorable
yeah
heheh... kingy wingy lol
Indeed
I adore cashews
That’s a husband and wife relationship for ya!
And funny
Why is no one questioning how the queen and the king have met up and been in contact seeing how the cyber world and Card world didn't seem to be linked and if either of them went to each others fountains they would turn into a statue
Yeah. Good question. How could they know of each other?
I personally believe that the dark worlds have already existed, overlapping the light world or staying underground or somewhere. The Knight(s) creating the fountains just awakens each dark world and allows it to have an entrance between light and dark.
Because the music trio said that Queen was never like this until the arrival of the Knight, so I think the darkners have lived their way for a long time until the Knight thrusts open the fountain.
queen probably met him while playing solitaire or some shit
You ever play solitaire online? That probably would do the trick. Also, these characters seem to exist before they are given life by the fountains, since king mentions being betrayed by lightners, THEN the knight shows up and makes the fountain. Queen mentions that the internet went out which caused her to worry for noelle, THEN the knight made the fountain and gave her the idea. Any interaction between the cards and computers would have an effect. We dont know how it works yet, so we cant say for sure, but we do know that lancer also knows about queen, since he refers to her as mom
I feel like canonically, each chapter will retcon in new information that never actually existed or happened till the chapter is played.
Like, before Kris and Susie go into the dark world in chapter 2 it's entirely possible the King had no idea who the queen was, however, through the process of the lightners creating the darkners (aka using their imagination) details like the king knowing the queen's existence suddenly becomes canon. It would also explain the king's confusion towards how the Queen was Lancer's mother.
Ralsei DOES address him not turning to a statue, claiming that its because he's from the PURE dark fountain from the castletown
Wait when??? Please do tell, cause I've only seen people assume that that's the reason
@@funtimegamer8733 he says it in the same scene
This implies the Original Starwalker also is
@@shellyvision9693The original starwalker is from the card castle dark fountain,not castle town
@@missingtexturez I’m aware
SCB: "It straight up kills the enemy and turns them to dust."
They died and there's red patches just for about a split second. (though, I know monsters are not made of blood like humans, but still, the rats died with red stain.)
The "Sans is a darkner" theory suggests that darkners have blood, but no soul
@DeadWhiteDragon
That's... ketchup
@@quep1 Why would ketchup come out of his mouth?
@@deadwhitedragon9751 Wasn't there a cut sprite of Susie bleeding though?
@@dullicecream yeah but that was cut, so it's probably non-canon
in addition to the "pure dark fountain" thing, i often hear a theory that the object Ralsei is based on is Kris' childhood horned headband. it would sort of explain why he never turns to stone: he belongs anywhere Kris is!
If you translate EGG into wingdings it shows this 👈👆👆 which is the movement of a knight in chess, also I believe the kris isn't the only knight theory because in chess there are two white knights and two black knights.
DUDE THAT IS SUCH A IMPORTANT DETAIL I NEVER THOUGHT OF.
2 white knights and 2 black knights..
What could this mean for future chapters?
AYO????
Damn, that’s so true. This might mean that there are two Lightner “Knights” and two Darkner “Knights”. While Queen’s dialogue implies that Darkners might not have access to Determination, there are three points that might explain this:
1. Undyne had access to high amounts of Determination for a pretty significant amount of time
2. We don’t know what would happen to a Darkner with Determination
3. Queen admitted herself that she doesn’t know everything
Another thing to add is how the french-suited playing cards that were used as another big basis for the first Dark World also have a similar distinction to the four Knights in chess: you have Red Diamonds and Red Hearts as well as Black Clubs and Black Spades (two groups with two parts to each). We can take this even further with how the SOUL is shaped like a Red Heart, so perhaps the other 3 Knights would also have a huge connection to the other 3 suits. Considering how one of the Knight’s has a connection to King and how King hates Lightners, it would be safe to assume that the Knight who made King’s fountain was a Darkner, and the one that made Queen’s was a Lightner (the Diamond Knight). If this is true, then we’ve already seen the influence of at least 3 Knights.
I know this is a pretty long post, and this last point might be a bit farfetched, but I also want to add that we could also perhaps get an idea on their powers, motivations or personalities based on their respective suits. The Heart could represent the power to SAVE and RESET that the Player/Kris have access too, the Diamond could suggest that the other Lightner Knight is either materialistic or thinks of themselves highly (perhaps Muffet for the former or Papyrus for the latter, or just a completely new character), the Club (or Clover) could represent some kind of Luck-based power, and idk what the Spade could be.
If you read all this, have some fried Pipis 🔵
@@ghengiroo4143
This is genius, holy shit.
@@ghengiroo4143 ok hear me out, what if there's such things as light fountains, if a dark fountain is possible then why not a light one
Spamton addresses *someone* as an [Angel], but it’s never directed at Noelle. Specifically he’s talking to whoever is buying the ring, which he then talks about when fighting NEO at the end of the Snowgrave Route, and he words it as though Kris bought the ring and GAVE it to Noelle. It’s far more likely that the player is the Angel given loads of evidence points to that (example: the heroes’ end goal is to “banish the Angel’s Heaven,” i.e. cutting off the player’s tie to the world of Deltarune) even if Noelle might seem to have loose angelic vibes on some level (note that she doesn’t have angel wings, she’s just wearing a white robe).
Someone else pointed out that the ring of thorns could be seen as an allusion to Jesus, in which case the biblical matches would be the player as the Angel or god, Kris as a conduit for the Angel to communicate, and Noelle as Jesus, the sacrificial direct force that enacts retribution where the Angel or conduit can’t.
I always considered Chara to be sort of a reborn entity, moulded entirely by your choices in throughout the story, which is why the narrator becomes significantly colder and sharper during Genocide routes. This makes what you see at the end of a Genocide route a monster you created.
I don’t know if anyone said this already but in the arcade game cutscene if you choose the “bosom” option than Ralsei will blush and act confused so it can probably be inferred that originally Kris was also supposed to blush. Maybe?
"Toby confirmed the soul coming from the top right in the Susie fight isn't a bug but was intentionally vague about it"
Toby: *straight up says why it came from the top right*
I don't think Kris is actually the knight at all
The queen says that ANY lighter can create a dark fountain, Berdly even was going to make one before ralsei sold him to stop.
I've seen a theory that Kris just wants to continue being friends with Susie so they slash toriel's car to keep her at their house and continue with their adventures. It's just them acting selfishly without the players input.
Not any. Anyone with Determination and she assumed that all Lightners have it. Meanwhile it's toxic for monsters, so it could be something like Undyne when a monster has some Determination or a Flowey situation with it being artificially injected.
hey wait a minute
where did you find that
was it a full playthrough video
of chapter 2?
OBJECTION! If kris isn't the knight, then where did he went during the night from chap1 to chap2?
@@HoplessNihilist he ate some pie
My personal theory on kris and the knight: kris isn’t the knight. In fact, they didn’t even have the chance to be the knight. I think that that day was when kris learned how to open a fountain, because queen told them how to. They opened a new fountain because… maybe they want to search the dark world for a way to free themselves of our control? “But we only saw kris open a fountain, so they must be the knight“ not necessarily. Kris is the only one we’ve seen, but according to queen, every lightner can open one. She was gonna use noelle to open fountains, and berdly was about to open one before ralsei stopped him. Any lightner could be the knight. It could be asriel. It could be gaster. It could even be papyrus. All i’m saying is, kris opening one fountain doesn’t confirm they opened all of them. In fact, we’ve been already told to not take these endings at face value - everyone took the chapter one ending to mean that kris would go on a murder spree, but they were actually just eating the pie. In the same way, we can’t take this ending at face value.
I've been seeing some people thinking the fake out for chapter 3 could be that kris hit a gas pipe in the ground but I don't know anything about pipes'n shit so I dunno
@@TheRealSuperKirby the laser pipe
@@TheRealSuperKirby loll theyd all die
I think its setup for a fountain this time
Unless they brought some fancy smokescreen with them? That would be a weird thing to do..
It's Chara
I suspect Kris is a much worse person outside the players control than Frisk was. The way he constantly "pranks" Noelle, in sometimes pretty mean ways makes me think this.
An idea I had for the Everyman is that he may be some particularly important Goner somehow, maybe with a more direct tie to Gaster than we see with the other Goners, or perhaps even a Piece of Gaster himself somehow, similar to the Piece one of the Followers hold
It could also be a situation similar to the "Bad Wolf" saying in Doctor Who, where through a series of strange events, the words "Bad Wolf" are spread across all of time and space, consistently following The Doctor and Rose Tyler despite the improbability of such a thing. A similar situation could be in ace with Everyman if he is somehow a Piece of Gaster. Gaster was said to have spread throughout all of time and space, yet at the same time doesn't technically exist anywhere, so it could be that instances of Everyman such as the Amalgamate Attack in Undertale, the graffiti in Deltarune, his Head/Helmet thing in Queen's Text attack, his body used in Jevil's carousel attack, rhe apparent plushies of him I suppose, and so on and so forth, could be various examples of him "spread throughout time and space", as if Everyman is somehow a Piece of Gaster, it would make sense he would be spread throughout time and space as well, both within the seperate universes of Undertale and Deltarune, perhaps even the "Man behind the tree" being both Everyman and Gaster simulation because, well, Everyman is a piece of Gaster
Simultaneously*
No oh come on Every man is tied to Gaster too now? Course the fuck he would be everything in these games are. Fucking A
@@Hamantha I suggest you watch this video. th-cam.com/video/RwDrTL3jhoQ/w-d-xo.html
I think you think Undertale and Deltarune players are going willy-nilly about Gaster, but it really makes sense once you understand that everything IS actually connecting and Toby Fox DID do all of this intentionally. If it wasn't intentional, Toby would have stopped making these kinds of easter eggs a while ago, because he knows about people tying these events together and theorizing.
@@sunnypeach1328 intentional or not idc. It’s frustrating. Everything just traces back to this one ambiguous source that could be anything. It waves away any discussion and scrutiny cause “oh it’s just Gaster” whether true or not
@@Hamantha Hey who knows, he could be literally the point of Undertale and Deltarune. That's not to say that people don't only talk about Gaster; there are some very cool and plausible theories about aspects of Deltarune and Undertale, such as what happened to December (Dess) Holiday, why monsters don't bleed but Sans does, what Sans is referring to when he says he 'gave up trying to go back a long time ago' etc etc... there's so many possibilities and I acknowledge that not all the answers are Gaster.
yeah I'm pretty sure Kris learned for the first time about how lighteners can open fountains at the end of chapter two, when ralsei stops birdie from doing it and explains that other part of the legend
"Birdie" LMAO
theory: in every chapter there is going to be an egg and when all eggs are in asgore's refrigerator, maybe, just maybe, something will happen
I think youll be able to put each egg into a different egg place related to an important cutscene. So far both of them were related to asgore (bc we meet him at the store)
Maybe its an easter egg plot
@@thedistinguished5255 Easter egg
Years
When you put all the eggs in Asgore's fridge, he finally gets to eat lunch
6:03 kris feels embarrassed after being unable to reach the controls in the machine
18:02 this is genius every thing about makes perfect sense if it was kickstarter backers and now that’s what im going too believe
"The Power of Reoccuring Bake Sales."
This is the dialogue at the Save Point at the Bake Sale in chapter one. Until that point, there hasn't been a Bake Sale. Undertale had two bake sales.
1:48 let's all remember, Kris is only shown making a Fountains after Queen explains how, that makes the possibility that they actually just learned how to and tried right there and then
i just thought of a theory while watching this video:
what if the character lost in the code, who keeps asking for help, is the person we created at the beginning of chapter 1 that was discarded. the character creation screen ended in black, and the character lost on the code mentions their lack of senses. there's probably more things that prove this theory, but i just thought of this now so i don't have that much.
12:57
Quick theory, Ralsei did mention something about the Grand Fountain about allowing all kinds of Darkners to be recruited to (Insert Player)'s Castle Town.
So maybe, he holds a bit of the Grand Fountain's power to allow him to not turn into a statue in other dark worlds. Just a theory lol
I think Kris learned how to make a dark fountain from after the Queen Robot fight. Just before Ralsei started talking about the Roaring.
Then who made all the other fountains? It has to be a Lightner who did all this. The one exception might be the Castle Town fountain. I still have a strong feeling that was due to Gaster.
Someone has to have knowledge of the fountain's creation in the light world. One suspect is Catti. She is known for studying the occult. She also says some strange things about darkness.
I don't think that Kris is the knight at all, they just wanted to go on more adventures.
We know for a fact that Kris didn't open the fountain in the libaraby, and I think people would know if there were multiple knights.
17:30 Mettaton wanted your soul so he could bypass the barrier and become a celebrity on the surface.
I'd argue that's motivation enough to want to at least try hiring some people to do the job for you.
Especially considering he explicitly tells you that he doesn't actually want to kill you and just wants to put on a good show, then says "I was the one that hired everyone to kill you!"
I could’ve sworn Ralsei stated that lancer turned into stone because his fountain went out. Ralsei’s fountain is still functioning.
Although how did he get to cyber world and what’s he talking about when we’re absent. Mysterious boy.
Good video, I liked seeing you touch up the ideas from the old video.
Yeah that’s what the explanation is
How do ppl miss this! This was underexplained but the closet and the classroom are two different fountains
That wasn’t the explanation. He said some darkeners aren’t compatible with other fountains. Then he explained to queen that his fountain was made out of pure darkness, letting any darkner exist there without turning into stone.
@@thedistinguished5255 I can’t believe people keep missing this, like, that was the whole plot of the prophecy.
It's a matter of compatibility, not Lancer's fountain
7:14 anyone else find it odd how in kris's dark world room, there's no bed for asriel and all the trophies are on kris's side if the room 🤔🏆
This could be Kris wanting to be the main character and feeling like the hero. In the real world Asriel is like the “golden boy”. He has all these trophies and participates in many activities and is loved by all. Kris is the opposite and most likely felt second best so in the dark world Kris made it so that they could be the best for once.
@@retrodiisiac yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I think Kris loves Asriel, but still feels a bit bitter about always being second
@@socksinsoda9517 second? Kris never got anything, they never got anything. They weren't even being considered.
Hey I just wanted to say thank you for actually using the correct pronouns for Kris. It drives me insane when people just use whatever pronouns they want for them.
im enby myself and i need all of the enby rep we can get lol
13:08 Ralsei was formed out of the original dark fountain (according to the unused manuel), so he is compatible with every dark world
Just like how any Darkner is compatible with CastleTown
doesnt explain how he was able to travel from castle town to cyber world without turning into a light world item
nor does it explain his knowledge of the light world’s layout
@@mintvibing ralsei is your mom
Oh I forgot there was a manual
@@funtimegamer8733 I mean... You can't see what it says in-game, you have tu check the game files
I think that Kris wanted to make more dark worlds after learning how to, by Queen. She says that any lightner can trust their blade into the ground and create a dark fountain. What I don't get is why Kris would want another fountain. They heard what will happen with 3 dark fountains and if another being is creating one fountain daily, then the 3 fountains, the castle town, the daily fountain and Kris' fountain will destroy the town.
I think the reason why Ralsei could go to the cyber world and not turn into a statue is because the dark fountain he came from is, according the game, made of pure darkness. Therefore, that might mean that he can go to any dark world.
ralsei is from the pure dark fountain though right? it makes sense hes completely fine in other dark worlds
If you interact with a car when going to the library at the start and it says "there is a man in here here"
"He is happy to see you"
Btw thay only happens if you have collected the egg
@@TheRealSuperKirby oh cool
I honestly think Gaster was the first knight and the person to create the first dark fountain. it would explain his entry 17 dialogue, the many references to him in deltarune, and the reason why the core contains pillars named "darkness totems" in the files. Maybe the core is powered by a dark fountain?
whoa whoa whoa, darkness totems?
i had no idea about that
A very good detail was pointed out in some video I watched that after the normal Spamton fight, when Kris is asked if they're okay, saying yes makes the dialouge implies that they said it in a strained voice, as if Kris was fighting not to say it. On the other hand, saying no has the dialouge state that Kris yelled it, implying they wanted to say their true feelings but needed the players input to be able to reply. I never noticed this when I played through, but all of the subtle storytelling, down to this single piece of dialouge that you have to plsy through a secret segment twice to fully see, is incredible.
Dang bro, your dub of chaos king is a COMEDY GOLD
13:37, the thing about this event is it happens 4 times during ch1 and ch2. This isn't just coincidence at this point. Ralsei IS aware of the playersoul/krisbody being seperate entities and talks when the playersoul is away. Thats why they become pushy. Ralsei wants us gone.
18:41 the mike skull is most likely a reference to Michael Afton well that what I believe myself
wait queen said lightners can open more fountains with determination, it doesn't mean Kris is the knight, any lightner can be a knight with enough determination.
i'm sure someone's already mentioned it, but i think the ralsei being evil thing is going to be a huge bait and switch. it seems like he's not intentionally hiding things (see: he just assumed the queen knew what would happen if she made a fountain when she didn't, so ralsei never mentioned it until she admitted she didn't know, then he was surprised and quickly explained the dangers to her). theres obviously some tie between ralsei and asriel but i don't buy they're the same person, maybe if he IS a darkner (which i'm starting to believe more since his death animation is just... disappearing- aside from his clothes) then he's formed from something representing asriel like the other darkners are formed from items from the light world? maybe a photo, maybe kris' goat horn headband (is that canon? i feel like that's canon) that got left behind at school one day or maybe he's something representing asriel or goat monster related kris carries around with them.
in any case, i don't think asriel is evil or being intentionally secretive. he just assumes others know what he knows and willingly gives information up when asked without struggle (hence him making a very general guide and giving it to kris upon arrival, and offering to make another if the player makes them destroy it).
unrelated to that, i think the "your choices don't matter." line isn't as straightforward as it's often taken. toby likes to twist things a lot and i think it's in reference to *both* kris and the player. kris' choices don't matter when we're in control and our choices don't matter when we aren't in control of kris (see: when we're "in control" of susie during her interactions with noelle, she never says what we want her to say). we force kris to choose options they would never decide on (ralsei and susie pointing out kris looking upset at certain points) and this is seen especially in the snowgrave route. noelle even says they sound different than normal, implying their voice sounds like the player's or sounds especially strained against what we, the player, are making them do.
i do think ralsei has some idea that kris is being controlled, if not then he's somehow aware of the game not proceeding how it should. flowey and sans obviously had omnipotence, but i'm unsure of how this plays in with ralsei exactly. ralsei seems confused when the route changes or when kris doesn't act how he expects them to, which points to him being aware of the player as a *player of a game* and not just something controlling kris.
i hope any of this makes sense. i nodded off at the end of the full iceberg you made and when i woke up this was in my recommendeds so i watched it immediately and am typing this all after just finishing the video. had no clue there was an egg in this chapter as well!
Theory: every chapter’s secret boss will show off a different soul
7 chapters, 7 souls
That means we’ll finally see the patience and bravery SOUL.
Im excited to see Patience bravery soul im quite okay if there were going to be fan based like orange soul moves through anything and cyan like a flashlight that stops the enemies attack (You cannot move the soul while flashing) you already know this if you saw inverted fate an Undertale Au fangame (Metta and queen fight)
I wonder if there going to be like that or Toby goona make it different
Of course it takes some patient to see 2 years or 1 even maybe likey in mouths to see Chapter 3 4 5
12:57 this is because in the dialogue it says only some darkners can't exist in other worlds, not all. Also ingame right after this it says that because the Castle Town's fountain is made from pure darkness, that all darkners can love there.
He specifically says "they might not belong in other worlds"
Just posting it here jic you havent considered:
The fact spamton painted a childlike sunny sky on the backwall of his shop might be additional clue to what he was informed through the phonecalls. Jevil thinks he is in a game, so Spamton painting blue skies makes me think he wants to see the actual real-world blue skies, not the lightner blue skies
But also, given he was obsessed about the NEO, which was made by lightners, maybe that is not the case, and the blue skies are just an obsession with lightners.
Actually; maybe the entire darkworld is a metaphor for videogames? So the dark world was created/ exists to be played? Which would explain why the light world has no fights and it's just, attending school and walking around?
Perhaps the dark worlds are metaphors for entertainment/escapism? Board games, cards, the internet, TV..
@@bloodyhell8201 thats an even better guess. If the next dark world is related to something like that, its a pretty solid theory
Correction: snowgrave is only useable in the over world if you abort the route on berdleys fight.
Patched
@@Daniel328DT damn
15:50 aged like milk lmao. This no longer works (it was patched), making the graphic involved with it no longer used.
1:50 It was literally said that anyone can create a dark fountain with enough DETERMINATION. Does that make...every single monster from outside world a knight? I think the title stands as one specific person...
No one ever stats how much DETERMINATION is "Enough", however, so that one is still debatable for now. And besides, Toby Fox said that UT and DR is different, but we don't know if there's any similarities in case of canon mechanics (like how most monsters can't have DETERMINATION, though two of the six (not counting red) soul colors in UT do show up in secret boss fights), maybe some aspects are the same
I was watching ultimate iceberg, and all those "what is city theories" were pretty funny after playing chapter 2 lmao
But really cool! 😀
22:17 to skip triggering topics
Omg I'm in the timed
Even though I dont agree with the chara abusing asriel theory, it helped me understand more about myself in terms of the part where a person will "idolize" their abuser. I have been mentally/emotionally/verbally abused by my dad, and in a way I've been idolizing him. As in he is some1 I am constantly afraid of and hate to the point that he's in my mind a lot of the time. Also he talked downly of my mom in a way that now that I'm having trust issues with other people, I'm having the worst time trying to trust my mom fully. For context, my parents divorced when I was 4 or 5, me and my dad kept having mostly negative interactions, then he and my stepmom have kids and that makes things worse. Not in the way of jealous that they get all the attention, but in the way that they get better support because they are younger, which makes me worried that my dad might abuse them aswell. And I'm a 16 year old with anxiety, depression, autism, and I've had suicidal thoughts in the past, and I have a gaming addiction. And this has been an issue for years, my mom thinking that while they were married, that the abusive interactions were normal. So the 3+ hour iceberg video gave me a new look into myself. Thanks to video games, I'm learning alot about myself and content creators help me notice those points and fully understand them. Video games and Videos like this are what have been helping me feel happy without it having an exciting thing for in the moment. Have a good day whoever's reading this. I know I'll try to.
im very glad my video helped you realize something about yourself. much love to you, you're very strong, and i hope you move out of that place soon. best of luck in life my friend 💛🤍💜🖤
13:00 ralsei says that darkeners turn into stone if they are in a world that they are not compatible with, lancer is from a card themed dark world so he turns into stone in an internet themed dark world, furthermore ralsei says that every darkener can live in the supply closet themed dark world because the dark fountain there is made of pure darkness, and because ralsei is from that dark world, he can't turn into stone because he is also made of pure darkness.
And no, ralsey is not from lancer's world, the card themed dark world is located in the abandoned classroom, and the supply closet themed dark world is located in the supply closet.
BRO I WAS JUST REWATCHING YOUR UT ICEBERG FOR THE UT+DR ONE. Legendary timing
Whereas you have the choice to see Susie's perspective in both Chapter 1 and Chapter 2's normal route, it's interesting that when Ralsei asks the same question outside Noelle's room in the snowgrave route, Kris does not react or answer, the player isn't given a choice to see into the room, and they are left waiting outside. Ralsei not being able to have the conversation he had with Kris might tie into something in future chapters.
12:55
Actually, I think that's because the original Dark Fountain, the one that gives form to Ralsei is still active, but the other one isn't. Even though the Dark Fountain Kris sealed at the end of chapter 1 was the one giving form to Lancer and Roulxs and the other darkeners, they are still alive because Kris got all the stuff from the old classroom.
IDK, I might as well just be an idiot
That’s actually a good theory. Since castle town is the supply closet, and the rest of chapter 1 is the unused classroom.
@@cybercider6620 supply closet actually
@@funtimegamer8733 Oops yeah
OOOOO I didn't know about the jigsaw Z's, very cool that you actually expanded on that info
Ngl I feel like how SNOWGRAVE affects Cyber world enemies could add on to the theory of Sans being a darkner, especially since the enemy will vanish in a cluster of red "Dust". Y'know, like when Sans bleeds in his fight shortly before turning to dust off screen. We Don't know if the dust was white or red after all, but given that no other monster bled when slashed, it's safe to assume Sans didn't die in the same way they did.
12:59 He was animated by the western closet fountain, which is a separate Dark World from the one that animated the unused classroom. Unlike that one, this one is explained to be made of a pure dark energy, which we know is why darkners from any world can survive in there. Therefore, we can presume that Ralsei is also made of pure darkness, letting him go anywhere without petrifying.
That’s also where Castle town is I think , making so all Darkners can’t turn to stone there
@@UnseenHuntress Mhm. What I wonder is, are there any other Darkners like Ralsei, or was he really the only one...?
13:42 YES YES YES. his discussions end with "so that's why", as if he's explaining something to Kris and Kris alone. (personal theory is that this relates to having to be controlled, or something like that.)
it brings a question to mind: are the effects of Kris Tea on Ralsei (120 iirc, same as Susie to Kris) directed solely at his attachment to Kris and Kris alone, or toward the player-Kris duo? Susie's on the same healing level and isn't willing to shut Kris up, but Ralsei wants to overlook Kris' feelings post-Spamton.
19:00 Hmmm... I don't think that means that there was a war between monsters and humans. I think a book like this exist for example the reason why Toriel borrowed it. What if a monster needs to take care of a human because it wants to adopt one or maybe it wants to be a therapist for humans or wants to be a kindergarden teacher or something. I bet somewhere beyond hometown there is a book for humans that teaches them how to take care of monsters. Also there are photos of unfamilliar humans in the book. This could suggest that the book is not that old (but I could be wrong). I also think it is very unlikely that deltarune shares the monster human war with undertale because it is still supposed to be unrelated. There is also something intersting: Toby mentioned on the stream that at some point it was planned that everyone in the light world should be human and become Monsters in the dark. That doesn't have much to do with a war but I find it very hard to believe Toby would just ban all humans into the underground
Oh wait... did you mean the book deconfirms the "Humans lost the war" theory or that you now think the theory is right?
i think the book deproves the theory
Ah, sorry. I realized that I misheard you when I already wrote the comment.
I think Ralsie is doing the same thing as asriel did, they are anograms after all, I think since Ralsei has a crush on you, they want to keep on playing with you so Ralsei who we will assume is a knight creates dark worlds to play with kris, this explains why Ralsei was so keen on them leaving the 1st dark world to do their homework and maybe also explains why he doesn’t turn to stone
Queen explains that lighteners can open portals, I’m sure Kris isn’t the knight and just got the idea from queen.
13:10 I think its because Ralsei is from the fountain of PURE darkness. The one that lets all darkners live there! :)
And or the fact he’s the prince FROM THE DARK
4:50 that might be Dess
I think kris is a type of godly being that was described in undertale; someone with a human and monster soul. I can’t think of any other way that Kris would be able to not turn to dust when they rip their human soul out.
11:58 "haha goat and dino go _NYOOOM_ "
22:46 door moment
1:54 perhaps _any_ human can be a knight... perhaps any human can make fountains... then, perhaps you actually aren't alone in this world of monsters...
*any lightner
@@TheRealSuperKirby well, I suppose that opens up some thought. But I was thinking any *human,* as in, there may be another human present, and they may be the knight.
17:25 I feel like they kept it mysterious so that first time players wouldn't expect EX
About Ralsei not being able to turn into stone in other worlds: it might have to do something with your town. Notice that no one actually turns into stone when they arrive into your town and live happily there, without any problems. I suggest that Ralsei is just a very special case because he comes from one main fountain that's in the town.
6:30
only does this on the A key, and it works on all of the puzzles
Pointless theory: the reason the A key makes the sans noise is because toby is deconfirming all the people that call sans' noise a "eh". Now it is confirmed to be "A"
@@TheRealSuperKirby lol
@@TheRealSuperKirbyIt’s the a from the “maybe” in “Maybe it’s the way you’re dressed?”
theory: "mike" is the one trapped in the code and is communicating with spamton by taking over his body or something like that, spamton neglects this person and every time spamton meets someone new and mike try's to call for help spamton ignores him thinking its just in his head or something like that. probably isn't the best theory but it came to mind suddenly thought I'd post it here
Honestly surprised the Chara abuse thing was even a theory in the first vid, it seemed like clear subtext when I played the game. I don't see how that tape could be interpreted any other way.
does anyone else like the way toby’s voice says “kris”?
16:48 Lemme try and give a technical explanation for why this happens.
Whenever the enemy attacks, the soul flies out from Kris to the center of the box. The game uses Kris's actual position as a reference instead of it coming from a hardcoded spot. Because of this, the game has to have Kris in battle, or else it'll crash because there's no starting position for the soul. To remedy this, Kris's battle object is spawned offscreen before the fight starts so everything works properly.
tl;dr, I don't think there's any deeper meaning to this, it's just toby code
I think the implication is that the soul is focused on susie and not kris. Ralsei sent our focus to susie so ralsei could talk to kris. That's why susie hears our voice, and why kris and ralsei dont get dragged into the fight with lancer
12:49 Another big thing that you didn't mention is Ralsei appearing in the cyber world when he was left in the other dark world, and considering the only way to go to cyuber world is through the library, this raises big red flags about ralsei's nature, although for the "why doesn't he turns into a statue" he kinda cheats an explanation, since his dark world is made of pure darkness, its different from the dark world of Lancer, it just happened that both dark worlds were inter connected by a door as seen in the closet, but even in chapter 1, ralsei was already an outsider, so maybe since he is a being of pure darkness, he can go to other dark worlds with no consecuence, but it still is extremely suspicious how he came into the cyber world in the first place.
2:48 People: Complain about Detlarune not being dark and having a genocide route
Toby: Makes a genocide route that’s messed up
People: 0o0
The Sans "aster" font rumor/misconception started from Game Theory.
Because of course it did.
I have a theory about the whole deltarune game, deltarune is an au of undertale, its like a what if for undertale, which is what if the monsters won the war. And instead of the monsters getting sealed underground its the humans, but instead of going underground its the dark world, but here's something esle, I think when Chara came in the underground Gaster was still the royal scientist, working on the machine, which could travel through AU's and timelines but since they're monsters they don't have the determination like the humans so he used Chara for the expirement. But since Gaster didn't really understand the full capacity of the human souls, the machine broke and he got scattered across time and space, or more specifically, deltarune. Then since Chara's soul was corrupted that how they got sick, then when Asriel's and Chara's souls got combined chara told Asriel about the machine, which is why at the end of the true pacifist run he stays behind and tells Frisk not to reset because he doesnt want them to mess up his plan. So Asriel stays behind and goes to the machine, and if I'm guessing correctly he still has a bit of Chara's soul in him, so he uses it to power up the machine, but since he doesn't have the full potential of the human soul he also gets sent to the deltarune au. Since Asriel is confused where he is, he sees his mom, Toriel. So out of curiosity he follows her to the school, but he sees the strange closet and goes to it. But once he enters he enters the dark world where he is transforms into Ralsei. So while he's down there he makes the dark fountain and everyone knows him by the "knight". Then since he still knows about the "player" and the game, he tries telling everyone about it but no one listens to him except Jevil, which is why he went crazy. But since that incident everyone forgot about him and which is why no one in the dark world knows him or anything about him. Then he goes to the cyber world he does the same thing but this time, the only ones who listen are Spamton and the Queen. Which is why Spamton went crazy too and knows about the player and game. Now about the Queen, she listens to him but since she's a computer she doesn't really understand, so Ralsei tells her his true identity, which is Asriel. So the Queen makes a room for him which is why in the mansion there's a room for Asriel. But since the Queen is a computer she probably forgot about him. So Ralsei/Asriel goes back to the origanl dark world and stays there as "The Prince of Darkness". Which is why he knows so much about the fountains and Kris, which is another reason why he's to close to them because they remind him of Frisk. And the rest is history, if you have any questions leave them in the replies. But in conclusion, Ralsei is Asriel.
Oh God I'm addicted to icebergs now
20:22 has some real "don't shoot me i'm just the messenger" vibes
I think the voice in the files is the real Kris. Because right now they are a shell with we(player) can control. Ofc, they have a moments of freedom, but they seem...off then. Like, they walk like a zombie and do terrible things
15:28
that's simple
he's every man
The Noelle sticker foreshadowing snowgrave is so funny to me tho
18:40 Micheal is basically the main character of FNaF, whilst the Mike that Spamton talks about is probably a secret boss or something.
17:07 *it’s not a bug*
Yea am sure it's the player
Remember that the soul is the player not an actual soul like in undertale
The soul gone out of kris and start controling susie
I have a theory for the rest of the chapter
In chapter 2 we(and kris) learn that if there is *too many* dark fountain it will bring the roaring
and at the end of chapter 2, at the castle town save file the message is "you can't back to the cyberworld, you(maybe with kris) consider this carefully"
What if in the next chapter we can choose to seal or not seal the dark fountain, but it is not too much for the roaring to happen
maybe we can let the fountain there flowing and we can go back there
(my english are bad)
17:33 Also mettaton: *hires mercenaries in the core to kill you*
11:37 average twitter user