@@johnbanicki7232 all I’m saying is it’s a darn shame that the ancient Greeks didn’t have model railroads. I’m sure Pythagoras would’ve had something to say on the subject. It’s just a darn shame that all they had were carts on dirt roads instead of railroads.
Great vidio, good info , one thing I found when I did N scale flex is that only one rail slid so best to aline those tracks. Thanks for the morning coffee...
Forgive me for asking, but I could never see how you could disengage two engines running together to uncouple from each other. Sorry for bothering you on this.
Of coarse my big steam & Turbines along with passengers would run better on a 30" Radius having straight short sections making an Oval I believe is the best way Dale?
@@bernardc2553 when building a helix it certainly is. As you really need any joints on the curves to be super strong so that they don’t kink pre-soldering sections of flex track into lengths long enough to make it around. Your curves is really important. But dealing with 9 feet of track is downright challenging! and yet this is what you have to do to build even an oval shape. So the best thing to do is use an oval shaped helix with non-soldered joints on the tangent sections. Depending on the size of your curves, this makes the length of track that you’re trying to work with reasonably manageable.
I gave you a thumbs 👍 up, but it's still hard for me to comprehend it & my mind sees everything in pictures anyway! I sure hope I can do this on an elevated platform!! Let's see, Hummm 🤔, 48" minimum for the 40 foot passenger car train & less radius for the mining and logging trains!! Is that right, Dale?!!
@@vinnyheaphy1372 well actually I don’t have any curves at all on the logging railroad! We have used a smaller rail there just cause it looks better. We’re using the full code 250 on the main line simply because some of our stuff has rather large flanges and won’t run on anything smaller than that. But the logging railroad is simply a 1 foot wide shelf 8 feet off the floor running for about 25 feet. And so it wanders around a little bit through the trees it doesn’t have any real curvature. However, if we were going to put curves up there, which I consider doing having a giant hairpin turn in the big canyon, I could have made that around the necessary 36 inch radius. But it just sort of seemed to pointless as the trains would go around that curve and then just stop anyway. So instead, I ran it straight into the mirror so that it looks like it continues on for another 25 feet.
Good video. I hope a lot of model railroaders follow this information. I want add a comment to the diagram showing the kink. Assuming the ROW continues basically straight off your diagram, what I would do is lay a section of flex track, equally, through the kink/apex of the curve first. Then I would lay two more sections on the ends of that flex track. Instead of two sections of flex track shown in your diagram, I would have three sections of flex track. I always try to layout my flex track through the apex of my curves, position my turnouts, then fill in the gaps with flex track cut to size.
@@dkaustin98 good thinking. But it all sort of depends on how much outward force is going to be placed on the track at the joint. So anytime you’re working with full length of flex track if you’re bending the entire track you’re going to have an equal amount of force at the joint. So while typically that would be at the Apex, it could be anywhere in the curve depending on how many degrees of curvature there are through the curve and the length of track you’re working with.
It is a good idea to have an easement curve leadinginto the actual curve. this is done by using a larger radius leading into the actual curve, this can be done by offsetting the tangent track by about one half the rail guage and lenghting the curved track a small amount to provide a smooth entrance into the curve, this is most important on smaller radius curves.
@@ByronFenton yup! Check last weeks video on the subject. Next week too. I’m going to show a problem curve outside where I have a joint outside under the snow.
@@amyreynolds3619 that’s another incredibly common problem. The curvature of a switch or turn out isn’t consistent and trying to line that up with a consistent radius curve can be tricky.
Good advice on laying curved track. Wish I paid more attention in math class on geometry. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. GOD BLESS 🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕
I use what I call the Basic Helix Design 101: 3.5 times the length of the longest non-articulated item you plan on running is the minimum radius. In N scale, I use 95' (between the pulling faces) for the 89'-4" TTX flats. 95' * 3.5 = 332.5' divided by 160 = 2.078 feet = 24.937 inches (Call it 25".) For those running HO: Divide the 332.5' by 87 = 3.821' or 45.86" Granted, one can use a smaller radius, but why invite track problems into a known area of trouble?
Let's make this 1000x more complicated... what if we filed the ends of the rails in half, like we do for switch points, and laid them side by side as a sort of slip joint? Spiked on each tie, the joint prevents a butt-end kink, and allows for the rail to expand / contract without opening a gap in the curve.
OMG! You know, I’ll bet that would really work but OMG! Another little trick that I have done and I’m gonna cover it in the next video I hope. Right now the joint that I wanna talk about is buried under snow! But another thing that I have done is to brace the outside rail with a screw. Pull the curve into a nice even curve and then right at the joint put a screw into the road bed so that the edge of the screw overlaps the flange of the rail. Just like a spike only on the outside of the rail and considerably larger. Then hide the darn thing with some ballast. But I have been able to pull some curves into nice even curves and get rid of the kink that way. That is to say on the outside part of the railroad. On the inside part, I would solder the joint.
Dale, you are an excellent teacher. Easy to understand.
HI!
Thanks!
Model trains and geometry who would have thunk. LOL Thanks for sharing.
@@johnbanicki7232 all I’m saying is it’s a darn shame that the ancient Greeks didn’t have model railroads. I’m sure Pythagoras would’ve had something to say on the subject. It’s just a darn shame that all they had were carts on dirt roads instead of railroads.
Great vidio, good info , one thing I found when I did N scale flex is that only one rail slid so best to aline those tracks. Thanks for the morning coffee...
Loys of great information~
Forgive me for asking, but I could never see how you could disengage two engines running together to uncouple from each other. Sorry for bothering you on this.
Of coarse my big steam & Turbines along with passengers would run better on a 30" Radius having straight short sections making an Oval I believe is the best way Dale?
@@bernardc2553 when building a helix it certainly is. As you really need any joints on the curves to be super strong so that they don’t kink pre-soldering sections of flex track into lengths long enough to make it around. Your curves is really important. But dealing with 9 feet of track is downright challenging! and yet this is what you have to do to build even an oval shape. So the best thing to do is use an oval shaped helix with non-soldered joints on the tangent sections. Depending on the size of your curves, this makes the length of track that you’re trying to work with reasonably manageable.
I gave you a thumbs 👍 up, but it's still hard for me to comprehend it & my mind sees everything in pictures anyway! I sure hope I can do this on an elevated platform!! Let's see, Hummm 🤔, 48" minimum for the 40 foot passenger car train & less radius for the mining and logging trains!! Is that right, Dale?!!
@@vinnyheaphy1372 well actually I don’t have any curves at all on the logging railroad! We have used a smaller rail there just cause it looks better. We’re using the full code 250 on the main line simply because some of our stuff has rather large flanges and won’t run on anything smaller than that. But the logging railroad is simply a 1 foot wide shelf 8 feet off the floor running for about 25 feet. And so it wanders around a little bit through the trees it doesn’t have any real curvature. However, if we were going to put curves up there, which I consider doing having a giant hairpin turn in the big canyon, I could have made that around the necessary 36 inch radius. But it just sort of seemed to pointless as the trains would go around that curve and then just stop anyway. So instead, I ran it straight into the mirror so that it looks like it continues on for another 25 feet.
Good video. I hope a lot of model railroaders follow this information. I want add a comment to the diagram showing the kink. Assuming the ROW continues basically straight off your diagram, what I would do is lay a section of flex track, equally, through the kink/apex of the curve first. Then I would lay two more sections on the ends of that flex track. Instead of two sections of flex track shown in your diagram, I would have three sections of flex track. I always try to layout my flex track through the apex of my curves, position my turnouts, then fill in the gaps with flex track cut to size.
@@dkaustin98 good thinking. But it all sort of depends on how much outward force is going to be placed on the track at the joint. So anytime you’re working with full length of flex track if you’re bending the entire track you’re going to have an equal amount of force at the joint. So while typically that would be at the Apex, it could be anywhere in the curve depending on how many degrees of curvature there are through the curve and the length of track you’re working with.
It is a good idea to have an easement curve leadinginto the actual curve. this is done by using a larger radius leading into the actual curve, this can be done by offsetting the tangent track by about one half the rail guage and lenghting the curved track a small amount to provide a smooth entrance into the curve, this is most important on smaller radius curves.
@@ByronFenton yup! Check last weeks video on the subject. Next week too. I’m going to show a problem curve outside where I have a joint outside under the snow.
I have a turnout after a curve which has a kink at between turnout and the end of the curve.
@@amyreynolds3619 that’s another incredibly common problem. The curvature of a switch or turn out isn’t consistent and trying to line that up with a consistent radius curve can be tricky.
Good advice on laying curved track. Wish I paid more attention in math class on geometry. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
GOD BLESS 🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕🚂💕
@@loispadgett6306 good morning. And as always, bless you too.
Thanks 😃
Hi Frank!
I use what I call the Basic Helix Design 101: 3.5 times the length of the longest non-articulated item you plan on running is the minimum radius.
In N scale, I use 95' (between the pulling faces) for the 89'-4" TTX flats. 95' * 3.5 = 332.5' divided by 160 = 2.078 feet = 24.937 inches (Call it 25".)
For those running HO: Divide the 332.5' by 87 = 3.821' or 45.86"
Granted, one can use a smaller radius, but why invite track problems into a known area of trouble?
👍👍
@@charlesmcclure5994 goood morning!
Let's make this 1000x more complicated... what if we filed the ends of the rails in half, like we do for switch points, and laid them side by side as a sort of slip joint? Spiked on each tie, the joint prevents a butt-end kink, and allows for the rail to expand / contract without opening a gap in the curve.
OMG! You know, I’ll bet that would really work but OMG!
Another little trick that I have done and I’m gonna cover it in the next video I hope. Right now the joint that I wanna talk about is buried under snow! But another thing that I have done is to brace the outside rail with a screw. Pull the curve into a nice even curve and then right at the joint put a screw into the road bed so that the edge of the screw overlaps the flange of the rail. Just like a spike only on the outside of the rail and considerably larger. Then hide the darn thing with some ballast. But I have been able to pull some curves into nice even curves and get rid of the kink that way. That is to say on the outside part of the railroad. On the inside part, I would solder the joint.
👍👍👍👍
@@historybuff7491 hi again!! Thanks!