EXPANSION OF GUILLIMAN'S TETRARCHY! WHICH PRIMARCH BLOODLINES ARE SUITABLE?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Hey everyone Rho here! Today we're discussing Roboute Guilliman's Ultramar Tetrarchy, as we ask which over Primarch bloodlines would be best suited if he expanded it to the rest of the Imperium?
No real need for a spoiler warning today so feel free to jump straight in!
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Imperial Fists are pretty obvious as they rival the logistical nature of the Ultramarines.
Their nature makes me wish there was more material with Imperial Fist and Ultramarine collaboration.
Have to say Rho, yourself, Baldy and majorkill are my 3 fave warhammer TH-camrs. I started listening to you first and your still my favourite. I just really like your take on the lore. Keep it up 👌🙏
Put the Wolves in charge of caring for the Eclesiarchy and especially the Inquisition. Scars in charge of testing the defenses... Ala the red team.
I think keeping the Inquisition as an oversight for the Astartes works better if not perfectly. We know Astartes can fall and fall hard, and so having that oversight is necessary. As for Red Team, maybe the Raven Guard? Especially when it comes to dealing with security against infiltrators like Genestealers or Alpha Legion.
@@VallornDeathbladeSW are also good against infiltrators. The hunt, the acute senses and so on (in the first phases of nachmund and, in crusade times, in the alaxxes nebula, that sort of situation already happened)
@@VallornDeathblade Eh... Inquisitors can also fall, arguably harder than Astartes, if only because they have no oversight and access to resources that most Astartes don't (such as forbidden relics and daemonological tomes). In the second _Eisenhorn_ book, the antagonist, a rogue Inquisitor, nearly opens the Great Rift a thousand years early. Sure, he was mostly acting alone, but the fact that he alone almost caused what Abaddon was working for ten millennia for is reason enough for Guilliman to want a watch force over the Inquisition.
I can’t imagine a worse fate for a White Scar than to become a Tetrach. Being chained to a desk.
great video man .
excellent analysis
Break the Galaxy into five great sectors, each having supreme military command by the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Imperial Fists (not including Black Templars), White Scars and Ultramarines, and many smaller sectors each lead by the largest and most powerful local military force whether it be Astartes of the other four legions, the Mechanicus, the imperial guard, the Great non founding chapters like the Black Templars, the Carcaradons, the Crimson Fists, Blood ravens and so on. All with supreme military authority in their respective sectors.
Both Primarchs should take a chapter from each bloodline and a company of each Founding Chapter and put them into a large Brigade sized Corps, a mini Legion.
Complete madness.
@@Kristian.B.KristiansenComplete madness, but will prove effectively if enacted as last resort. With some corrections, maybe.
I recommend not 5, but more general regions - from 8 to 12. Sub-segmentums with centers in main Segmentum fortress systems and First Founding Legion homeworlds.
@@Kristian.B.KristiansenBut I repeat - at last resort. I think, that only Primarchs can really direct Segmentum-scaled regions, because no one else have such authority and respect.
@@ArtyomMikitich
Each segmentums have their own high hierarchy from each organizations of the Imperium. For eg each Segmentum has a Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy. Their posting is probably mostly administrative with a smidge of broad tactic (fleet allocation etc) but they are there.
The Lion has been putting more capable humans in charge of planets, will this be the issue between him and Roboute
Yeah... current lore literally has worlds under his protectorate overthrowing corrupt rulers. If I recall correctly, he even refused ruling because it was his father's vision that humanity rule itself.
The imperium is corrupt and kinda evil in itself. I figured guilliam would do this
The word of a goberment of three is triumvirate
Algorithm comment
I don't agree about the Space Wolves. They're literally already fulfilling the role on Fenris. Maybe they wouldn't want to take charge of other areas, but if they are to expand Fenris's domain, I can see them being fine with it.
The worst bloodlines are clearly Jaghatai and Ferrus Manus.
Iron hands I can understand but how are the white scars a bad choice?
@@ReaperofValhalla Their whole thing is speed, and they're based on the Mongols. Not really ideal for governance of a state.
@@malcolm_in_the_middle I thought they are more of the Wise Warrior Monk type then raid and pillage type.
This was the reason why Russ initially supported the splitting of the legions. Spreading his geneline across a wider territory would increase his influence. He would have done that if it wasn't for the gene flaw of his legion.
Well, in Fenris what the wolves do is to keep the planet dangerous and undeveloped, so they can keep a good stock of recruits.
The only thing they do manage is the Fang and their fleet, and even then, the fortress is half empty (better to say, half full of dangerous unknown lurking things)
But - the idea of Space Marines in place of civilian governors was one of the reasons for Horus Heresy. Putting Space Marines in places of power would be a big problem.
I just picture a single Ravenguard purched atop the tallest tower on a world like a gargoyle watching from the shadows like Batman over Gotham.
Sounds a lot like a Night Lord.
@@VallornDeathbladeraven guard will empower a populace against corrupt institutions. Night lord will start flaying people at random until they get what they want.
@@VallornDeathblade That would be Rorschach.
A Gargoyle based chapter that's a Raven Guard that fights like a Night Lord or vice-versa kinda sounds cool.
The Lion: So can I wedgie an Inquisitor or a governor?
"As long as you have a good reason brother"
"I'm a primarch, isn't that a good enough reason?"
@@minhducnguyen9276
Governor: ACTUALLY!!!!
Inquisition: Yes. Lord Lion, you can wedgie. Coming from Lord Guiliman
@@joeford5181
Lionel ( to the inquisitor): "You are smart, that's why you won't get wedgie today. You governor, you are not too smart are you? That's why I'll put you on a flagpole."
I know it sounds daft but rather than 1 tetrak why not have a small council of one from each to over see then you get the points from each so ulta sort out logistics fists sort and focus on building raven intelligents salamander care of the people iron hands machines and so on working together to and all shared between these top 9 just my thoughts then no one faction has any advantage or looks to hav an advantage over the others
Imagine a space wolf tetrarch. His staff are all kearls
And governors under him would have lots of freedom yet behave exemplary out of pure self preservation.
The most legendary feasts in the entire Imperium.
So are we just going to ignore the astral Claws and how dirty there are done by the Inquisition
I like to think the Inquisition is trying their very best to make sure Guilliman never finds out about how badly they fucked up during the Badab War. Bobby's anger would be apocalyptic.
Honestly I’m a firm believer in the chapters having more authority to tell the inquisition to f off. We know very well loyalist chapters are more than capable of watching and ensuring chapters under suspicion are loyal or whether they’ve turned traitor/renegade. The inquisition is uncannily good at driving very loyal chapters traitor by their actions
Inquisition burned all the files like a cartel on the CIA payroll.
It seems like a single Tetrach from every genetic line would be best. A tenured Capt, nominated by 1st Founding Chapter Masters, approved by a few Chapter Masters from the same lineage. Every bloodline is repped... Although it could cause jealousy issues if, just for example, a Blood Angel was elected, but Seth wanted a Flesh Tearer as Tetrach. Some chapters might need to get a visit from Bobby G or the Lion to illuminate them.
It would be simpler if each chapter is allowed to govern their own system and a dozen of star system nearby. Fleet based chapters will have to find a planet to settle if they want to form a protectorate. Basically if they can hold territory they are allowed to.
@@minhducnguyen9276that's how u get badab war
@@minhducnguyen9276 fleet based chapters should keep on the way they are, they provide a valuable and rarer kind of service than regular chapters and are usually larger in numbers like in the Black Templars or the Sons of The Phoenix so could be used a a sort of mobile reserve or neutral force in deliberations between chapters since they hold no lands themselves forcing them all to become normal chapters would ruin many of them and could cause conflict maybe some of the newer primaris chapters could settle new protectorates like a few have already i like the protectorate idea overall tho and many regular chapters do this already
Keeping it at 4 is just going to make problems, pick 1 from each legion, any chapter from that legion, and then 1 for the Deathwatch, and 1 Representative from the Unknown Lineage Chapters. They all have individuals suited for it, even the Wolves and Flesh Tearers, though Deathworld/Feral World Recruited Chapters are probably the least suited for this type of work, Lacking the Cultural History of civilization. Probably wouldn't want to put someone from Catachan or Kreig as a High Lord either
Ultramarines and fists would be the main ones governing larger areas, certian blood angles governing big areas aswell, dark angles would do a good job, iron hands would be sent to factory world's or places close to the Frontline, raven guard would be good but not great, the scars I could see doing the job well, the space wolves uhhhh idfk they aren't really the governing type, salamanders would be ight.
I actually agree with the Ravenguard being a good option. In fact, I’d put them ahead of every line save the UM and IF.
Remember, Corax was the mirror of Kurze, both strongly attuned to justice. But whereas Kurze was heavy-handed and brutal in its application, Corax was not. He liberated Deliverance but did not needlessly massacre civilians working under the slavers. A Ravenguard tetrarch would be fair in applying law, considerate of the Imperium’s citizens under his rule, but ready to root and destroy corruption, revolts, and xenos incursions when they are found.
Love the channel Rho! Always makes my day seeing a new video!
Pentarch i suppose would be the accurate term.
Would conflict with the already existing Pentarchy of Blood
Just because one country calls their supreme commanders "generals" does not mean that another nation cannot call their supreme commanders "generals" without conflicting.
Indeed, this is a special case, on a fantastically galactic scale. Although, the Pentarchy of Blood is not public while Gman's is supremely public.
Lore for the IRL Public is another story. Maybe it would confuse those with a tertiary understanding.
I be but a simple Catachan, but I feel like the Pentarchy of Blood would enjoy discretion in most of their operations. Once or if it goes hot, all the Masterz of Blood go megaton, unleash their barely contained thirst.
Meanwhile, the mainstream Pentarchy runs the show.
If they did non-ultramar tetrarchies then I wonder how Huron would feel to learn the imperium was putting astarties in charge of stuff again. Probably at least a little peeved off I bet
Best bet, force the white scars to do a massive population of world's they will get in there get the details take no shit, lay down the law then move on, now maybe they only improve a planet by 20-50% but that would be the perfect ground work for other chapters to come in and make themselves comfortable.
That or give them random planets that they turn into military might rapid deployment planets, focused on quickly deploying strength and speed to anyone in the system.
Or and hear me out task them with specifically enhancing the lmperial Navy?
Guilliman might be the only person not bigoted in the Imperium that could let the Lamenters do what they were meant to be: Planetary Governors instead of Terminal Depression chapter
The word you are looking for is "pentarchy" White Scars, Salamanders, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Imperial fists, Raven guard and Dark Angels could run them, Iron hands would perhaps be better in the role of securing trade routes and overseeing how industry runs. Raven guard and Dark Angels could also be used to improve communication lines and deal with uprising and disloyal governors trying to start a rebellion. Space Wolves, Flesh Tearers and similar chapters like those of Pentarchy of Blood could just deal with rebellions if they happen, for example have one chapter just in case in every sector or something ...
I don't see the Dark Angels as Tetrarchs...
"Empires, monuments and legends are built by those who are merely victorious. We were born to kill, not to build. We are not idle long enough to leave monuments and we leave no work of the enemy intact to spawn legends. We are the Ist Legion, and he that follows in our wake is death."
-Attributed to Hector Thrane, Keeper of the Black Gate and First Master of the Ist Legion
They are made to hunt monsters, not to rule. And I think this is the biggest difference between the 1st and the 13th. They seem similar in design as 'generalists', but the Dark Angels were not meant to be spending time as a police force, living side by side with the regular humans.
Or.... maybe each of the chapter, as exemplars of a certain characteristic of the emperor, they should form chains of command where in councils of captains, LTs, and even Sgts rulling lower levels. Ultramarines handle politics, imperial fists handle civil engineering, iron hands focus on industry, wolves are the stick that keeps everyone honest, salamanders remind everyone of the soul, dark angels blood angels, and white scars stay loose to react to problems, and raven guard are the execption that hidden policing needs to happen. Rotate different battle brothers into the positions every 10 years or so, like a deathwatch rotation.
I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment of the Space Wolves' and the White Scars' suitability to governance. I agree that they would hate it, but that might be a trait that makes them more suited to the task than others, like the Iron Hands. Speaking of the Iron Hands, we see what rule by narrow minded number crunching technocrats looks like in our every day lives, do I need to elaborate on why that is such a terrible idea?
...Imperial Fists would make excellent Tetrarchs just to their natural tendency for 'secure foundations' for any task they undertake.
Tbf the line of Ferrus would be great to oversee the worlds of the Mechanicus.
Pentarch for 5, Hexarch for 6, Icosarch for 20, or just Polyarch for anything above 5
Jaghatai is the next Primarch to return.
I actually feel this is actually a good thing.
Guilliman: statesman and master planner
Johnson: general and tactician
Jaghatai: master of the elements and frontier scout
I think Guilliman is aware that not everyone can run things the same way as he and his sons would. At most all of their worlds will be the center of a sub empire & if that area of space is attacked they would call the shots and making sure everyone is doing what they could for the Imperium. Even the Sons of Russ would be ok with following this. The Lion set up a Protectorate so really that's his Ultramar, & I could see him having some of his sons being placed on the borders of it but those who would want to, he wouldn't want another Luthor situation again, maybe even if companies 3-5 rotate every few years on watch.
"I think Guilliman is aware that not everyone can run things the same way as he and his sons would."
Are you positive? This is the guy who wrote the Codex Astartes, which pretty much says that everyone should do exactly that. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm not. Maybe it won't matter when Corax returns to wipeout everyone and reset the narrative.
never trust dark angels, never trust the lion.
The lion is loyal only to the lyon. He betrayed everyone on Caliban. So are dark Angel, Zelous and loyal... only to the dark angels.
I’d separate the legion bloodlines into these tiers;
>Tier 1<
Ultramarines (Obviously)
Imperial Fists (Great at logistics, only slightly insane)
Salamanders (Plenty empathetic, less good at governance)
>Tier 2<
Blood Angels (Great charisma, strong leadership qualities, can occasionally be a little arrogant, and some chapters are a bit murdery)
Space Wolves (Great at governing less developed worlds, less so for more developed ones)
Raven Guard (Generally ok in all respects, though overt aloofness would alienate the populace slightly)
>Tier 3<
Dark Angels (Too much potential to genocide governed populations)
Iron Hands (Absolutely no understanding of the human condition, complete distain for fleshies)
White Scars (Would less govern, and would more just step in to “fix” obvious problems)
Iron Hands would be excellent for providing oversight to Forge Worlds
@@VallornDeathblade I feel like forge worlds are the least in need of oversight in general, as the AdMech believe efficiency is literally sacred. I don’t think astartes oversight would do much.
Im not buased, but the Iron Hands would be a good choice.
This galaxy-wide "tetrarchy expansion" with any-ranked Astartes idea is totally bullshit and never happens in future. Only primarchs embodies such authority to be Segmentum rulers. And take note - every Adeptus of Imperium would rebel or at least seriously counteract with such "original" idea of Chapter Masters ruling the Galaxy.
12:48 I like the smoke moving across the photo, nice effect.
1. Ultras
2. Fists
3. Salamans
4. Bloods
5. Ravens
In that order
-Iron Hands as regents of the Forge Worlds.
-Space Wolves on the borders as the Watch, let them scout in force to their hearts content.
-White Scars, ever moving, as quick reaction forces to any hot spots
-Dark Angels, primarch present, yet divided more than any other loyal son. From the perspective of Corax, Russ, and Vulkan, you cannot fackin trust the First, but you can trust the Lion. Hold them in reserve for champion on champion fights. Let them keep their secrets so that the Blood and Wolf brothers can keep theirs as well.
Anyone can deliver the Lion plus a few good boys to the ultimate point of contact for a critical effect, a slaying.
Otherwise the First is fackin divided and slacking. Yep, I said it, the Dark Angels are an amazing disgrace.
I be but a humble Headband Guardsman bangin and changin through the galaxy, but I'm sure that we need another Primarch.
Rogal Dorn
I know it's probably ment to be Iron Hands, but the idea of G-man going "yeah, so we put the Iron Warriors in charge of the admech" sounds kinda funny.
@@Icheras lol, you are right and yes
🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡
I think you nailed this, though picturing those like the Vilka frustratingly dealing with spreadsheets was interesting.
ALGORITHM
I build a things trenches ,walls, cities, spaceports, fleets.... iron within iron without lol
Good topic to address tyvm❤
Indomitarchy
I totally agree with your reasoning however I would suggest that they formed a triumvirate with the iron hands, raven guard and the salamanders to equal each other out. Maybe even adding a wolf or a white scar just to keep free will alive. Second thoughts best just stick with the white scars as they are less likely to put an power axe through the table 😂
Flesh tearer ruler xD
Choose the Iron Hands so they can finally get some more lore instead of the same damn loyalist legions over and over again
They finally got Shadrak Meduson for the Horus Heresy so there is still hope.
Do you want a galactic uprising against Transhumans from every none-astartes faction in the Imperium? Because this is how you get that!
Yeah pretty much. Would only work if it was an advistory role rather than a full on replacement of planetary leaders.
Everytime I see an upload i get excited but when I click and see its about guilliman or the ultramarines I click it, comment how I dont like them and don't watch it..GW needs to expand the lore on others so we can move away from the single most boring aspect of 40k.
Astartes ruling is a terrible idea. Should never happen.