How Much Professional Dancers Really Make Starting Out - TwinTalksBallet
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- EXPAND FOR A FEW DISCLAIMERS
I forgot to mention this in the video, but this information is all coming from the perspective of a dancer working in North America. I know I have many European viewers, and I am aware that the monetary situation in European companies can be quite different. I do want to reiterate that these numbers may be off slightly according to what company is being discussed. There are definitely exceptions to what I stated (meaning some companies will pay more or less than the loose numbers I gave). Also, I was speaking primarily from the perspective of a female dancer in a small to mid-sized company. As I said, males will almost always be payed more.
I truly hope that this was helpful to you! I felt very strongly about the importance of getting this topic out in the open, and I hope that the risk I took in sharing this was worth it. As always, thank you so much for watching! Please subscribe and "like" this video if you think more people should see this!
- Kirsten
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This is why I decided to not pursue dance professionally. I'll always love dance and will continue to do it, but also I realized my talents are better with teaching. Plus I like stability and having extras like trips and what not. Kudos to you and other dancers pursuing this career.
But you can always open your own business and use the artist name to promote your business.
it's so crazy how little dancers make on average considering the 15+ years of expensive training they received prior to even going to college or joining a company. the tuition to attend a really good ballet school is thousands a year, on top of that you pay for pointe shoes and leotards and everything else....
so true, i love being a ballerina, and no one else understands lol!!
Supply and demand.
Truth is that we do it not for the money but for our love of dance
exactly!
Tricia Skinner same. But hey, we’re going to have to pay bills and stuff once we hit 18 while simultaneously making a passion a reality which can be very difficult
Tricia Skinner and for fun
I agree, I want to dance, but I also don’t want to be struggling.
Passion or not ,the bills still gotta to get paid.
Hi Kirsten! 5 yrs later and this video is still as relevant as ever. Thank you so much for sharing! I am in my junior year as a dance major and it is so helpful to get real advice about what to expect financially coming out of college
Life is very unfair for Ballet Dancers, especially the girls.. They work like slaves for little pay and their careers are very short. I doubt that they have much of a retirement fund either. Their only reward is that they are doing something that they love.
I agree
Yes, but doing what you love is better than doing something u hate and getting rich
Some ballet dancer can make a ton of money especially the top ones but there is a lot of stress on their body. I guess it is like gymnastic, football, adult film stars and any other sports that involves physical activity there is a shell life. The plus side you can make a ton of money doing something you love
@@karinabreyer9832 exactly
@@karinabreyer9832 the funny thing is that you can get the money (in a job that you hate), then quit and do dancing for a long time. That way you get both money and dancing.
The real reason that male ballet dancers are paid more is because there just isn't as many of them
I would say that for every 75 female ballet dancers, there is 1 male ballet dancer making them more valuable
not at pro level there isn't that might be the case recreationally ...
It's basic economics - Supply and demand. The supply of females is likely 75 to one for those seeking to be pro dancers.
@@nicolajaynehodson9223 there are 100% more females with above average talent than males but regardless it all starts in the early stages. As children the competition is much steeper for females while males being in higher demand, can get more opportunity even if that just means getting the experience of better parts and or more attention at their studio or scholarships. More opportunity early on is going to put them on a different course than a female without it. And so on.
beans beans all you are doing is demonstrating your ignorance .
@@nicolajaynehodson9223 good job throwing around insults, but I'm speaking from factual statistics and research. spend a minute on google and you will find numerous reputable resources demonstrating the rate of competition for females being much higher than males.
In case you are confused, I'm not referring to once they are IN a company. everyone works incredibly hard and are subjected to very high levels of competition. I am speaking to the competition it takes to GET there. If you believe any different I can only assume you don't do any research or simply base your options on anecdotal evidence.
It is actually sad to hear the reality. Thanks for sharing the info.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! As a dancer preparing to move away to pursue dance please make more videos like these... I need them. Thank you.
Thank you for telling the honest facts. These are important thing for aspiring dancers to know! I'd like to add that when it comes to succeeding as a dancer, I'm a strong believer in thinking outside of the box. In fact, like you've said, you pretty much have to be an entrepreneur in order to make a living from it. Right now, ballet almost exclusively pays my bills. My morning job is teaching Pilates. And as I've mentioned to you before, my musician husband and I have a small group of musicians and dancers and we are employed by the city to perform at events, council meetings, etc. I also teach ballet at an academy on the side. We currently live in Seattle,WA and because of all the work we have put into networking, marketing and putting ourselves out there, I make more per year than the average dancer at Pacific Northwest Ballet (I take their class regularly) and I dont have to worry about renewing my contracts. My manager knows me well and continues to find me work, with and without the group. I am currently working on a license as an HCA (caregiver) to take care of my disabled neighbor part time, but my plan is to use the license to also expand our performance atmosphere to nursing homes and places with disabled patients so that they can enjoy ballet as well. This will be state funded. This is just a brief summary of how I keep my ballet career going, but I would love to help you in aiding your viewers/followers who are struggling in finding a similar path in order to dance successfully! I will contact you in regards to booking a consultation with you and hopefully we can shed more light on this for your fans. Much love. You rock, Kirsten!
This is incredible Jessica!! I am so touched that you care for your neighbor and how thoughtful you are about using your talents to bless others. I'm so inspired by you!
I was in a smaller company for a few years. My pay went up every year by about 50 dollars biweekly. I started at 350 a week and my roommates, who were in the same company, got paid similar wages. We had all of our pointe shoes and other shoes paid for by the company. They paid for one pair a week which was more than enough and would equate to an additional 50-100 dollars a week. I never tried negotiating my pay but could have probably received more if I did.
I understand why many dancers (perhaps in N.A.) have sponsors to assist them in their careers. I'm shocked at how little dancers earn, especially considering how hard they work, and have worked, for many years.
Thank you so much for making this video! I think transparency is a great thing and thanks for sharing your story. It means a great deal that you still make videos despite having to work lots of jobs and thanks for all your helpful videos! I hope that the bookkeeping goes well!
I also agree with your thoughts on the pay gap! Ridiculous double standards!
All that beauty dedication and hard work, dancers should be compensated better. Thank you for sharing!
"The dancers in Boston Ballet make $45K, which is totally livable." BAHAHAHAHA! Not in Boston it isn't.
It would be worse in California.
I guess. I'm just familiar with Boston and the company.
Does that include their touring / double show day per diems etc...
Thank you for the video! I'm not a dancer myself (injuries have sadly made that impossible) but I love watching your content. I wish you the best of luck with any outside job you may end up having and of course that things will work out at your company!
I really want to become a professional dancer but I’m worried I won’t be financially stable.
So we're on the same page
So it's been 8 months!! Got any ideas?Please share them with me too!Ik this is weird but wondering if you could help... Stay safe🤗💜
Thanks for sharing - I had always wondered. I also appreciate your honesty - I can see how making this sort of video couldn't have been easy. Cudos!
sadddd. deciding to quit dance senior year to focus more on college, I couldn’t stand not being financially independent. I love dance and have danced my whole life. But dance has become so much less fulfilling and the culture of ballet in my state is pretty unhealthy and unfair. Hope everyone is doing well
All I can say is ... WOW! I never knew the details of a professional Ballet dancer and I luv the art ... WOW!
thanks for getting real. you gave a good perspective for us. was always curious and aspiring pros need to know.
Thank you so much for sharing Kirsten! I had no idea about the boys, that's crazy!!! I am now wondering if this is the same in Europe....(as I am still in training and don't know much about the salaries over here). This is such a delicate topic to discuss and I am so happy you addressed it! :-) Love all of your content!
In my central European town, second biggest in my country, soloists get paid about 800 dollars per month. You can survive on that money here, but still the pay is quite ridiculous. The pro is that there are no unpaid positions. I suppose in Germany dancers will be paid well though.
interesting... one very interesting stuff in Europe : at least you don't pay too much for training and ballet schools, as many public ballet schools provide the best young ballet dancers with the best ballet education :) Even like that, you are not sure to get a job. And then you will have to become a teacher or do another job to live with.
I was a ballet dancer for 7 years...I got payed as much as a teacher...
Really? I’m almost 18 and im hoping I can do dance while simultaneously making decent money at least
Thank you for this honest and refreshing video! So important to share with this with those that are deciding what to do about their future plans in college, dancing professionally and in life!
Thank you for this video so much!!! I love you! Ballet is my life!
I'm still young but being a pro dancer in America is my dream but people don't really think it's the only job I should have cause off the money. I do understand ur stituation
On a diff note, this is much like people who think to be a super model/high-end fashion model is so glamorous and high pay..It's not. You start out so low or without pay and without consistent jobs etc. You typically have to climb the ladder anywhere you work.
your videos are so helpful and you never fail to answer all of my questions about ballet. thank you (:
If you get hired as a corp de ballet member, will you make enough to live on that one salary? I sure hope so. One freelance dancer with a high social media profile is Taylor Gordon, and she teaches pilates, dance classes, etc. She is able to make her living with all dance or dance-related activities. Are you able to do that? Food service is hard on your feet and legs.
Not saying that the pay gap is in any way appropriate, but do you think shoes factor into it at all? Pointe shoes are not cheap
When you're in a company they take care of your shoes.
That's what I'm saying, the women get paid less, but they get their shoes. So from the company's point the expenses for male/female dancers may be more even? Not saying it's okay just wondering
Ciara1211 I reckon! And not only that- female costumes are more intricate and cost more to design and make
depends what dance company you are in, some provide the some don't. they are around 45 quid. dancers get through 1 - 2 a day.
Thank you so much for sharing this!
I'm grateful for sacrifices dancers endure to amaze, inspire, astound, & entertain.
Waitressing is lucrative for dancers partly because they are so incredibly gorgeous. Tip big! It supports the arts.
It’s sad how dancers can’t be rewarded abundantly for their hard work and talent. It seems the companies cannot afford to pay their dancers much $ because the arts are not sought after by the masses. Most people would rather go to a rock/rap concert than to the ballet.
You can always open your own business and use the artist name to promote your business.
TRUE!!!
If you are a good dancer, aka amazing self worker, than you should be fine in life. A recommendation is to graduate high school.
it really makes you wonder how much exploitation occurs. The competition is fierce, cost of living in big cities are hgh, etc. With recent exposure of the #metoo in hollywood, one has to wonder how many of these young and hungry dancers feel they have no choice when propositioned on the "casting couch.".
During the Renaissance, artists of all types - painters, sculptors, dancers, theater - were the celebrities of society. While professional artists are still respected in today’s society, that “celebrity” is now held by athletes and movie actors (who may or may not have the talent needed to be an “artist”). While I doubt my daughter will ultimately continue her dancing into a career, if she does, I plan on teaching her to do excellent financial planning and being fiscally prudent.
Wow.. I really didn't know that in some companies girls are paid less than boys... It's cruel and sad :( I would really like to know more about your experiences! I mean about your company (in what company are you, how the situation you are in works, is it like a stage/performing practice etc.) ...how you auditioned :) I hope my question made sense :D Thanks
this made me a bit sad. i had hopes and dreams of joining a large company. can you talk more about YAGP.
Hi Kristen! Thank you for making this video, it was really helpful! Do you know if modern/contemporary companies are similar? Thanks!
That’s insane that the pay is super low
Can you talk about what grading is like at university ballet programs? Do they grade really harshly? Is it hard to maintain a 4.0 with ballet grades?
or get a master degree teach in college or teach in high school. you have to be great at choreography too
please do a video about the wage gap!! thank you for always being so informative and real
Could you do a video talking about how being vegan at the UofU was? I will be a ballet major there this fall and I'm really worried about it.
All that work and having to go into food service. I’m not knocking did service itself. It is good, honest work. But to train so hard and to do a job that is so far from your profession😊
Does the same apply for modern dance companies?
This is great Kirsten ! Good job !
+DD Danielle Thanks, Devin!! 😁
Jim Cornette always says, "If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense!"
Wow thats insane! In china the pay is much much higher due to the growing demand
how much Money does ballet dancers (Corps) earn???????
In a AGMA ( Union ) company, starting pay for the corps is $600 / wk . I know that in some none AGMA companies such as Tucson Ballet they can pay you as little as $100 / wk . In the company Kirsten is in the starting pay for corps is $300 / wk . So it ranges , the dancers who land a AGMA company position are more lucky because the union controls how much the dancers get paid where as non AGMA the the company management can decide .
she said she was an apprentice...i'm sure that has a lot to do with it.
Lark Bird she stated she gets paid no salary as an Apprentice. Her pointe shoes are free up to a certain amount of them, tho. If she goes beyond the allotted amount, she must buy them, herself.
Is this also the case with contemporary dance companies? thanks
what college did u attend? Also HI I am new to ur channel, Im a 15 year old girl sorta a beginning ballet/contemporary dancer not pointe yet maybe in a year(because I do learn very quickly)...but my weight is a bit above average maybe 145 and I'm 5'5 should I be worried about my weight?Just a random question sorry
What ab backup dancers on tours?
Hi there
Hope you are doing well
Im 20 years old and i want to learn ballet 😭
Idk how to star
We don’t have programs where i live😢
You can always take online classes and there are also a lot on TH-cam:))) just don't get discouraged, Ballet is amazing and it's never too late to start trust me I started at 18!
Question, is medical insurance included?
I’ll take a stab at this. In the State of California, there’s state disability insurance, if you’re injured on the job. Outside of that, the young professional dancers I know have all bought some form of Obamacare. Of course, right now, they’re in something of a bind because the lower-income subsidies they qualify for to help them pay their monthly premiums are about to be taken away. Yay for Trump! (Not really. It’s appalling, actually).
In general if you belong to an AGMA company you will be provided with insurance because it's something the dancers have negotiated within their CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) which usually takes place every 3-4 years depending on the company and the previous contract. I danced for an AGMA company for 10 years and had incredible insurance. It was a saving grace when I gave birth to my first child. Practically , my entire pregnancy , labor and my son's NICU stay was covered. I definitely miss that perk now that I am a free lance artist.
To me dancing should be done for fun and not for living or as a career. It’s ashamed but it’s the truth the arts aren’t really reliable income jobs.
Gotta ask you: Have you ever actually seen an AGMA contract ? I'll bet if you ask, a lot of dancers will send you copies so you can see actual numbers for some companies.
you can open your own studio
I think the gender pay gap is primarily because very few boys dance anyways, especially ballet, which is seen as very feminine and gay. Given that there are so few male dancers, it is just economics why they get paid more for less techniques.
Hello I’m a boy ballet dancer and I just want to know if I will make anything if I get into a professional ballet school when I’m older
Please talk about eating habits!!!
Interesting (just trying to get 100 comments🤦🏼♀️)
Did you say 45000 a year is the top of the profession? Really? Seems really low? Is that full time?
What content do you make on youtube as a dancer?
If I like comment and subscribe does that increase your Adsense ? bc I absolutely adore ballet and would love to support a dancer. Hope this helps (:
Thank you so much Anika! That is very kind of you. Views, likes, and comments all help out, thought supporting through Patreon is the best way to make a difference. You might have seen this in my other videos by now, but I have actually moved on to another career since I posted this a year and a half ago. However, I still teach, dance for fun, and post on this channel!
Am I the only guy here ;-;
Where you learned dance? Now I'm in process of finding the best high school for me and please give me an answer..💞💖💕💓💘💗
You kind of remind me of Evan Rachel Wood 🌼
There are two reasons us makes are paid more that you definitely overlooked:
First, as many people have pointed out, there are so few makes in the field that companies are basically fighting to get us. So yes, it's unfair, but paying us more is just what they do. There's no sexism, instead just imagine one guy and two companies fighting for him. One will pay him x, and the other company wants him, so they pay more than x and it goes back and forth.
The second fact is, while I don't mean this in an insulting way, males who are part of the "Corp" will usually have a harder role in any given show than the average female corp member. Most male corp members will do a lot of the same things as the soloists, I. E. Partnering, tors, tricks, etc.
What compeny do you work at
Many dancers remark that they don't make the kind of money pros in football, basketball, baseball, soccer, and hockey make. Why? Why is that? Heh. They work even harder than the guys in those fields. And yet... dancers make about as much as say... a stock boy. Well, the answer is pretty obvious, isn't it? It's because there aren't enough fans. Oh, ballet has fans. The most devotee balletomanes really celebrate the practice. But honey, look at the kind of fans football, baseball, basketball, soccer, and hockey have. See? See? There really is no contest. How to make sure dancers make money? Simple, Simon. More fanatics. More people in the audience. That's the answer. Spread the word--now.
"I can never hope to make a lot of money. But I only need enough for cat food and the apartment. Union stagehands get much more for pushing a button than what most dancers get." --Suzanne Farrell
in which compagnies are u ?
Where do you live? Do you live in nyc? Btw your apartment is so cute
Reality: good male dancers are much more difficult to find than good female dancers; therefore, a good male dancer is more valuable in the market than a good female dancer.
iampracticingpiano Some of them aren't that good though. their technique or bodies aren't held to as high of a standard as females are, either.
+Al Pal some female dancers aren't that good and all dancers with less than ideal bodies make less than those who have what the company is looking for. I'm not saying it is a good thing, but it is reality.
But the companies need the bodies...
...and the better the dancer and the more ideal their body, the more they are paid. Rightly so, because exceptional dancers are good for box office. If a company can't make money, it won't last. In addition TIME is so cruel to dancers: even if you ARE exceptional, there is always someone younger coming up who will eventually take your place. As a dancer ages, she is moved further upstage and given smaller and fewer good parts until the heartbreaking day comes that it is all over. I'm a former professional dancer, and I'm writing a novel about this very topic.
iampracticingpiano Yep.
you look like Eleanor from The Good Place!
Arts in general isn't transparent about money. I heard males have shorter careers. Is that true?
I think a lot of it has to do with the female/male interest in ballet. There's such a surplus of female dancers that I think part of it has to do with luring males to the company, but also I think part of it has to do with the fact that because there are so many females, they can afford to pay a lot less - since if that dancer won't accept it, another will.
Male dancers do have a shorter career. Ballet is harder on their bodies due to the fact that they jump more than female dancers and have to carry the dancers over their heads most of the time. This leads to more injuries usually.
Joana Woelpl why are u hating on males. I heard males can do more pirouettes then females because they have a stronger core .
$45k is livable but not great. :(
nice information dear thanks ur so cute :)
you never know when a child who likes dancing is ruining his motivation to dance further, you think about the bad side in this whole thing, and if it's just like you say then why do you practice ballet and you still have a you can make money from all this and so could a kid who has for example 15 years, replace them telling them what is bad, sayings and the best in all this dancer career because you do not know no matter when you get to dance for Lady Gaga or some other famous person, if I were you would make another video where you say the good parts to a dancer
Good part about being a dancer is very obvious, you get to dance, which is presumably your passion because why else would you do it? But your suggestion is so irresponsible. Just because Lady Gaga made it, doesn’t mean kids should be encouraged to pursue their artistic passions. For every one Lady Gaga, there are hundreds of, thousands of, if not millions of, equally talented individuals who just can’t make it. Artisitic success is as much talent and hard work and luck. It’s extremely irresponsible to tell someone to pursue something that has a 99.9999% chance of failure. The only people who should pursue dancing, singing, acting etc. professionally should only do so either it’s paid for (e.g. deemed talented enough to get substantial scholarships) or because they would be miserable doing anything else in life. Only when you want it that much, you should pursue it.
real restate, forget making money from doing art
That's fucked up.
Get to the point. Too much unnecessary talking
SOOO negative!!! Also... she said she just started out... making NOTHING and she thinks she knows everything about dancers' pay? hm
Just because I'm being realistic about the sad truth doesn't mean I'm being negative. I decided to make this video because it is shocking how little information there is for young dancers and their parents to see! It frustrates me that what is presented on the internet and in dance magazines are some of the TOP salaries in the industry. This is very misleading because very few dancers ever make it to that level!
Yes, I just started out, but do you really think I just walked off the street and decided to start dancing this year? Just because this is my first year dancing under a contract does not mean I have not had any relevant experiences or interactions with dancers who do have payed contracts. I have trained under the top companies in the nation, and I have contacts of dozens in companies (big and small) that have been able to give me information on their compensation rates. I took the time to actually collect that information from those dancers to make this video as realistic as possible. If you would rather believe something like an outdated Pointe Magazine article over the word of dancers that actually dance in the industry (who have provided me with this information), that's your choice. I'm not here to depress people, but I believe spreading the truth is the responsible thing to do.
She is not being negative . She is a very smart individual that a lot of people look up to and respect . She may be new to the professional company life but she is not new to ballet . There are some companies that have 25 paid main company dancers and then they have 27 non paid second company dancers dancers and 10 trainee dancers whom in which don't get paid either . this is more non paid dancers than the actual paid dancers . Its the sad truth of the ballet world .
Amie K: Mean, much?! Jeez! Smh.