It's actually just C.U.U. United States of America United Mexican States Sorry to burst your bubble. But next time someone tells you America isn't a country just say neither is Mexico Edit: In hindsight maybe the "sorry to burst your bubble" sounded like I was trying to be a prick. Cause people took this way to seriously. And probably me 😮💨
@@baronvonjo1929 sorry to burst your bubble but literally no one calls it the "united mexican states", not even people in mexico call it that we could burst another bubble and call canda its formal title too, the "Dominion of Canada", but literally no one calls canada that either.
At university, my thesis advisor told me what happened with NAFTA when he was working in the Mexican chocolate industry. Nestlé and other multinationals began to buy Mexican chocolate companies and to reduce costs they decided to buy cocoa beans from Africa which were cheaper than Mexican cocoa this unleashed a crisis in Mexican cocoa producers who abandoned their crops and began to emigrate to the United States.
I love how an axolotl is representing Mexico. Nice to see the axolotl representing its home! A lot of people don’t often think of Mexico as it’s one and only home outside of captivity. Edit: Damn I didn’t think this was something that a lot of other people would find exciting. Thanks for the likes!
Yeah he skimmed on the Zapatistas and how the US trained Mexican special forces who ended up becoming the Zetas. Kinda blows a hole in this "jolly friendship" deal the North America made with Mexico. Basically Mexico is a place for US and Canadian companies to exploit cheap labor and cheap resources while also capturing their massive consumer market crushing local competitors which of course hurt Mexican economic development. This deal has been great only for the North.
@@franzjoseph1837 But if Mexico is more economically developed than before NAFTA, how is that hurting it? What's hurting Mexico's development more than anything is the crime and corruption just like most of Latin America.
@@songcramp66 I never said they were you just made a strawman up. What NAFTA did was flood the Mexican market with subsidized agricultural goods that killed small holding farmers livelihoods. This then forces them to sell their land usually to some agribusiness who sells their products to America. They then have no job and must either migrate to cities to work dangerous low paying jobs since they have no other qualifications beyond farming which they have done for generations. This leads to crime and narco trafficking to get by. Your simplistic reasoning around Latin America make you sound like some gusano who wants to pay no taxes and sell their respective countries to American and European corporations who the is confused by all the poverty and crime their desires and actions have caused. This is why Latin America is so poor every country had been a colony for some European empire which left behind conquistadors who became large land holders who then prevented the masses from real economic development or political representation. Hence why land reform is such a big issue in the region. Agriculture is king in Latin America and with it you can have a steady income.
@@cashewnuttel9054 I would say he missed out on that pretty crucial detail which is kinda important if you want to understand the effects of "Free Trade" deals between developing and developed nations. Usually understanding that world ideology is a race to the bottom in terms of wages also helps further illuminate why this deal isn't so good for Mexican local industries or small farmers who have no other means of making money. Also the whole US trained Mexican special forces who then became some of the most violent and feared narco enforcers in Mexico as being another " product" of this deal is a major thing especially pertaining to Mexico"s internal security.
@@mattia8327 nahhhhhh, an Canadian being biased to their own continent (and their best friend) ? Lmao couldn't have seen that coming. but seriously, it's not that big of a deal and he does cover other countries not just north american ones
Its because it's simple most or half of the people understand this so yeah idk what I am saying but that is a psychological thing as time goes on his voice to will become also the part of this.
An important thing to understand about Mexico was that during the singing of Nafta Mexico was ruled as basically a single party dictatorship by the PRI, which had started as a socialist party following their victory following the Mexican civil war, only to become just yet another corrupt oligarchy so interlinked with the history of Mexico ever since the Spanish. The Mexican agriculture collapsed because the comfortable agricultural communes had been protected from foreign competition and as such they were basically decades behind the US. Simultaneously the Mexicans had no ability to develop a future for themselves or innovate without backing from the PRI which by the time of Nafta had grown to become a very exclusive elite. When the party lost power in 1997, what followed can be summed up as the total collapse of Mexican institutions from which it has yet to fully recover from considering that cartles which the PRI in its corruption allowed to gain so much power basically rule much of the country.
You americans choosed those dictator, they were your puppets stop being hyprocritical. You have no right to moralize. usa is way more corrup than Mexico.
NAFTA has been the name that my friends and I use for our Guilds as long as i can remember. The joke is we change what it stands for every time anyone asks.
Globalism brought to you by WEF. Then we have a mostly artificial supply chain crises to double/triple the price of home goods, spare parts etc and even more wealth disappears into the vaults of the ultra wealthy And i work in supply chain myself :)
He's right. I grew up near Pittsburgh in the 70's-80's and the jobs were already leaving before NAFTA in the 90's. We knew that they were going to Asia (specifically China). Its just that the agreement was the handy catch-phrase for what was happening to Midwestern American jobs.
What was causing the jobs to leave before the agreement? Didn't america have tariffs to protect those industries, which was why NAFTA was considered so bad?
As a Ukrainian, the more I learn about the US, the more Eastern Europe just seems like pure satire of the US. Here no one knows what's going on with the politics, there isn't really a national economy but every city has it's own radically different lifestyle, the TV is just bullet points of events and let you fill in the blanks with your own ideology to make the ratings go up, etc.
The irony is the us is a satire of the entire world. We just adopt the quirky fun bits of other cultures, let them be a fad for a few years, and one day you wonder why there’s an entire section of a Spanish city copy pasted into a flyover city as a shopping mall for cars. Hell, “Chinese food” is almost pure American origin, just a way for Asian migrants to mix a little bit of their background with western palates. Fortune cookies came from California, and General Tso chicken is the prelude to McNuggets.
@@BILLYLTD1408 That was latin america in the 60s, not eastern europe in 2022. America isnt that relevant to countries like Bosnia or Serbia. NA just lives in our own happy bubble and were chill with it lol
😂Emma and her two moms turning Ivan and his ancient, museum tanks to fertilizer. Safe and far away controlling advanced Reaper drones, while Ivan is only given cardboard bullet vests xD
There is Even a proposal made by the mexican president in the reunion of North América leaders on México City, of reinforce the manufacturing in NA to lessen the reliance on Asia imports (mainly china) in order to relocate all the Jobs on asian soil to North American jobs, which is another way of becoming more competitive as an economic zone. In México there is a lot of hope in the agreement, we are hoping in becoming the manufacturing muscle in the region;)
Makes a ton of sense. Mexico has the energy grid, cheap wages, and natural resources for a thriving manufacturing industry and the fact their next door neighbors to the US, have easy access to world markets, and have extremely close cultural ties to both the US, EU, and the rest of Latin American than China and with far fewer strings attached. The recent trade war and China using their economy to bully others isnt anything new: Mao did the same with his Soviet allies to extort aid, before that the Qing spent centuries using both their large markets and their stranglehold on some goods like tea to manipulate other countries, and even before that China has had a long history of establishing monopolies and using those to influence other countries. At various points China has used monopolies on porcelain, tea, silk, and some foods and spices for both profits and to hold over other countries heads; they've even done the same to their own citizens and did things like restrict access to the coast to maintain a regional monopoly on salt.
Worth noting part of the rust belt's problems come from US protectionism in the form of the Jones act. In the 19th century what we now call the rust belt held a major advantage in transportation costs compared to much of the world because all the primary industrial steps (coal, iron ore, oil, factories, etc.) were all easily situated on connected inland waterways. Even now the rust belt could still hold a competitive advantage if we brought back cheap water transportation combined with our existing cheap flat land and *relatively* cheap energy.
@@sajivsatyal7507 thats only for shipping going from US port to US port. Foreign ships can import and transport goods from a foreign port to a US port.
@@TheWaynester101 yeah but the point is if it was repealed a ship could say pick up coal in WV take it to Ohio have it turned into steel taken to Texas to make cars than shipped back down to New Orleans for foreign markets
@@sajivsatyal7507 Do you even know what the act is? It helps the manufacturing sector and jobs by saying only ships built in the USA can trade between US ports
Do you even know what the act is? It helps the manufacturing sector and jobs by saying only ships built in the USA can trade between US ports. Biden supports the Jones Act and wants to expand it to help the Midwest by encouraging more infrastructure to be built solely in the USA.
I came in reluctant, but as someone that has worked in all 3 countries, and worked on the transfer of a dying factory in upstate New York to Mexico, I gotta say you did a good job, you went the long way, but there is one more to highlight, at some point the manufacturing in the US can get restrictively expensive, to save the firm you have to make difficult decisions. If you send the operation to Mexico you can keep better control over your IP, China is no longer the appealing destination it once was, IP is not respected there.
@@pottertheavenger1363 you can say that literally about any country. Cars? really? GM and Ford are American lol they just hire you to make them that doesn't make you known for them.
My dad grew up in Youngstown, Ohio. When the steel mills left, the city basically crumbled, and it's honestly really depressing to be in now. It's fun learning about things like this that can explain my lived experience, especially when you break it down in such an easy to understand way. Thanks so much!
It's also a pretty interesting contrast to the end of the video where Hoser pointed out how economists say the effects of NAFTA were a net positive but that's hard to say when it directly affected people like your dad and his town
You should know that the steel mill probably went to China, since Mexican steel output hasn't grown at all since 1994. In fact, NAFTA is the reason cars are still being made in the American Rust Belt, rather than China
I'm from the OH and PA border and once all the steel and GM left, the area died. It is constantly on the edge of collapse if federal aid doesn't come. The weird part is people keep clinging to the hope that the industry is coming back. I left ten years ago and never want to go back. The wild part is the area I lived in was Democrat for over 40 years. Trump was the first election where my county voted red.
I agree people need to innovate. If u ask Mexicans if nafta was a good deal they would tell you that nafta destroyed the agriculture sector but also improve a lot of other stuff. Trade deals are no perfect but the benefits are more than the downsides of it.
I love how they avoid some of the stereotypes too. People often go with America as the Bald Eagle even though a bison is a much better symbol: they're big, tough, mean, eat anything, and are an excellent source of red meat just like America.
@@arthas640 Granted, we killed the hell outta both of them through hunting and wasteful sport killing until we finally kicked our conservationist machine into gear. Both bison and bald eagles are alternately representative of the US, depending on the region
It is a no-brainer, US, Canada, and Mexico are better together. Yes, the transitional phase isn't fun for many people but many of the negative impacts is subsiding or bounce back (somewhat).
@@rioluna6058 Ellos no quieren aceptar derrota en el sector económico asi que dicen que hacer cualquier negocio con China es lo mismo que ser una colonia China y piensan que pueden cambiar su suerte por medio de la difamación.
Just to remind everyone, there are plenty of people in countries across the EU that complain about similar trade agreements & economic cooperation too. Often what benefits the "MOST" people ends up hurting others. Economic cooperation can help raise the standards of living for everyone, but there will always be certain aspects that can hurt too. There's a reason why "BREXIT" happened, and it's because these things aren't always popular (or even understood). And no, I'm not saying Brexit was a result of "Euro NAFTA," only that enough people prioritized what they saw as their own self/best interest over that of being part of a greater whole.
Yeah, the problem with these trade deals is that while they end up being net positives for countries as a whole, they screw over certain groups and regions-- leaving them extremely bitter and nationalistic. These people, in turn, are susceptible to extremist ideologies.
The greater good isn't always a greater good. Sacrificing thousands of people for the million does not justify the means especially when it's really only inolving the market. If the people abandoned were actually helped to get back on their feet, it wouldn't be so bad but governments and companies never care about the individuals affected by these decisions
@@silentstorm5439 that’s a great point. Who exactly determines what the so-called _”greater good”_ is anyways? So far from what I have seen since the 1990s the leadership that has been making these decisions on NAFTA have not been good faith actors in determining the _”greater good”_ regarding public policy and its side effects, good or bad🤨
The problem is, these negative effects can be anticipated and reacted to...but they aren't.... generally speaking the country benefits 5 times for every 1 unit of loss. So really assistance and training programs should really be invested in....
As someone from Michigan, I do gotta say that the Jones Act probably killed our industries. Thankfully we’re recovering and bouncing back, but I don’t think we’ll truly see big change for another generation or two minimum. Love it here, and I am a fan of the AMCTA- I know, hyperbolic in a way lol
Yeah like the image of what someone thinks of Detroit at its absolute worst isn't true anymore. From stuff Iv seen online in recent years the city still isn't close to how good is was and still struggles but has slowly bounced back. It looks like those old manufacturing jobs have steadily been replaced by a variety of different markets
@@bxkxhxkg82 I agree, once USA Canada and Mexico work together closer, we can all benefit and become wealthier and stronger. More investment in Mexican manufacturing and North American industrial jobs would absolutely be ideal, and it’s already becoming a reality.
I mean I think that if Mexico gets more benefits for its workers and better compensation, that's a no lose situation, Mexico is becoming quite wealthy with foreign investments, specially the northern states that border the US, so it is just a matter of maybe a decade to see Mexico rise as a developed country, which by latin america standards would be unheard of
@@Sceptonic that's correct, economic development also greatly helps to reduce crime and corruption, even the video mentioned how mexico has made huge improvements in that area since nafta was introduced
@@leoperez6737 they are doing well as a country, however, last thing I heard is that heir economic model collapsed and they were reforming their constitution. They had issues with social inequality brought by their technocrats. The reason Mexico is doing somewhat better is only because the US is pushing Mexico to do so, no free market, no deal
Silicon Valley was literally saved from Japanese competition (which was on course to wipe it out) during the Reagan admin. They forced Japan to put quotas on semiconductor exports to limit competition. This was a very wise move, and enabled America's digital economy today.
Those quotas didn't mean much. Japan choose to was specialize in the memory market which they thought would be big. But it turned out to be a low profit commodity business. And an even bigger mistake was focusing more on hardware that software. Software turned out to be more valuable and transformative.
I can't thank you enough for providing a nuanced, balanced take. While I personally think NAFTA is good (with additional environmental and workers rights protections), I can't ignore it's very real effects on places like the Midwest, although I do think embracing post industrial industry and trade with Canada could/will remedy that.
"post industrial industry". What the hell are you on about? To make a final good you need refined resources. You can't get rid of the industrial step to that good unless you mean "pre industrial industry" because there is no way to transcend the industrial sector.
I come from the midwest and my hometown hasn't been hit too hard. We still have a small industrial sector, but it doesn't employ much of the town. We are doing fine now, and agriculture is large in the areas surrounding the town. I really hope that a tech company could start in the Midwest, could seriously mitigate some negative effects, and hey, you're close to those Virginian servers :D
@@ProxiProtogen, That still doesn't make sense. They aren't becoming tech companies. Even if they use more robots they are still producing the same industrial goods. Which is just a capital good and that process has been done since the first ever business.
The three friends are neighbors. Canada and US are brothers while US and Mexico are business partners but not friends even though working relations are good and Canada and Mexico are like friends who would borrow some of their stuff and do business. The US really love Mexico’s tacos and Canada’s pancakes with maple syrup. Canada visits YS to watch hockey matches and drink Moosehead. While in business visits, mexico and us would also drink some Corona’s and modelos. The US isn’t a fan of Mexico’s strange way of doing their own business since the US aren’t a fan of drugs smuggling in their own lawn. Tell me what they are in your opinions. Pls don’t get offended
US and Mexico are not enemies and relations are very good, its fair to say that their diplomatic status is "friendly". They are just not military allies because Mexico broke their alliance when the US invaded Irak in 2003 because they thought that the war was unjustified (and they were right).
Man, you really nailed it! This was the most US accurate version about NAFTA I have ever seen! With both sides of understanding, with your touch about what you think. It probably missed that the worth of money in Mexico has dropped dramatically since 1994, there was a really bad devaluation after the trade, where peso dropped its value 4 times agianst dolar, giving the perfect start for US and Canada over Mexico in this agreement. Peso exchange has been part of the trade too, "it has to lose its value against dolar" over time so the finances of the maquila industry can maintain a good profit. Even doe the "super peso" is really strong these days, it will return to its agreed state sooner or later.
I remember around 2000, reading reports from workers in mexico employed by multination corps that came in after 90s NAFTA. One place they talked about how they worked so tirerlessly they crippled their hands and the lighting was so poor the workers damaged their vision. So many people needed jobs, disposable workers could easily be replaced with fresh ones.
That's a bad idea that the farming went to the United States because corn is originally from Mexico so if anybody likes corn the best corn is from Mexico not from the US
I live nearby Endicott, NY, and it's just sad to see what happened to the area after IBM left. The whole rust belt needs a lot more than just new jobs at this point.
Fr though unless your Indiana your fucking suffering in the rest belt Yeah Indiana despite it's weird local politics is actually doing about the same pre decline and has a rising population rather than stagnation
I'm also from near Endicott. My mother worked for IBM. When I got old enough, I moved away. It's super depressing to come and visit, but sometimes I see small glimmers of hope.
An important thing to remember is that the united states heavily subsidized/subsidies their agricultural sector past consumption demands. In conjunction with these subsidies, the advent of monoculture and fertilizers made overproduction and waste an almost certainty. This is all without mentioning other trade agreements that were neither free nor fair. What this resulted in was exports by the united states that out-priced local goods in mexico. In response, aside from the point mentioned in this video on steel, the Mexicans pivoted into more specialized agriculture meant for exportation - ie, avacados and coco beans. The problem with that is that these goods dont nutritiously feed people diverse diets, that they are monopolized by a handful of agribusinesses, and are largely vulnerable to external shocks
Late reply, but I’m sure the reason for the USA subsidies of agriculture is food security. “Every country is three meals away from a revolution” to quote some dead fictional guy (: and subsidies of essentials, from food to gas, is pretty common in countries. You can look at China for an example of food insecurity. Not subsidies, but China imports most of its basic food essentials (as well as energy) and is in constant fear of their enemies blockading imports. This has definitely affected their foreign policy. (Meanwhile, the USA produces more of its own oil, affecting foreign policy, particularly in the ME, as well.) Not to say that your post is wrong. Far from it. Actions have consequences, and USA’s subsidizing its food industry does more than keep its citizens reasonably fed.
Something about these economic unions that often goes unmentioned is the fact that these unions are only as strong as the weakest nation within them. No one in their right mind would say Canada, Mexico, and the US are equals when it comes their institutions. Same thing for the EU. It's why the Greek debt crisis really dented the EU and served a foreshadow of political and socioeconomic issues to come.
@@ramonarellano4988the US doesn’t import oil. It’s self sufficient. It fights proxy wars against Russia in Syria and props up Saudi Arabia against nuclear armed Iran. The world isn’t nice. And demonizing America for foreign wars is ridiculous, as it’s underwritten the most peaceful and prosperous time in world history.
Seeing pictures of some of the towns and cities around my area in the 20’s-60’s just resonates feelings of missed opportunities and frustration. Some towns were able to recover, the one I’m in relies heavily on yearly tourism and has flourished, many others aren’t so lucky and either died in the 2008 recession, or are still dying. Nothing says “I love exporting industry to the Chinese” like looking at the St. Louis/Chicago world’s fairs and then seeing each city in full today with all of the neighborhoods you usually want to avoid.
I live in Pittsburgh. I'm glad our city skyline isn't blackened with Bethlehem steel mill smoke every day like it was in the late 19th century, and actually has a diversified industry. Education, health care, robotics, software engineering, and tourism is now what we do. Honestly, with how our city's industry is now, I'd say it's better than it ever was. Since we aren't so dependent anymore on just one industry it's brought some comfort in that there's some stability to the city's job market now. The suburbs around Pittsburgh have been exploding with growth because of all the new tech jobs and the negative growth in the city has been decreasing every year. Hopefully in the next few decades we'll start seeing the Rustbelt shed it's rust.
That's normal towns come and go I'm in the middle of the rust belt either adapt (move to where the money is) or reinvent the town you live in (like turning the old factory into an art gallery) or die
@@somepersonsome9355 I'd imagine forur possible reasons: 1) too easy or too obvious, they'd rather get more creative 2) buffalos are more imposing which represents the US's global scope a lot more 3) bald eagles don't look as recognisable when coloured with the country's flag 4) they already wanted to go with the axolotl for Mexico but if they went with the bald eagle with the US but not the royal eagle with Mexico it wouldn't make sense so they went with something else
Ross Perot was correct. So many 'buts' in NAFTA. GDP did go up but there was a very cynical wealth redistribution involved in that. The investor class did great but at the expense of the working class. Fast forward 40 years and this is kind of how EVERYTHING now goes. America is long overdue for a French Revolution sort of thing.
Will never happen, because people have been brainwashed into hating each other, the common people have been divided and are more likely to turn on each other than their exploiters. How many people will tell you that immigrants, or white people are the cause of all troubles, versus the rich, the powerful and politicians? A poor white from west Virginia has more in common with a Mexican immigrant in Los Angeles than with Donald Trump or Joe Biden, yet they hate each other instead of their oppressors, and they will love their politicians on "their side" I mean come on man, so many poor people love Trump, a billionaire, who has always been rich, was born rich and they think he cares about them. Biden is not as wealthy but he's still part of the ruling class. People will love Trump and Biden and hate their neighbor, or some random farmer or immigrant 1000 miles away, it's sad.
I know this is a relatively petty thing, but it always kinda bugs me when I buy something from the US, get it shipped to me in Canada, and pay significant duty on it - whereas I can order the same thing from the EU or Asia, and I dunno it just often seems to be less. Part of me wishes shipments between the NAFTA countries (yes I'm still calling it that) were duty free, or there was some other real incentive to buy North American stuff.
It seems you know your stuff man, however the outsourcing of jobs not only hit the US, here in Mexico also surged a rust belt when manufacturing went to the US-Mexico border and China and India. Mexico City 40 years ago when I was a kid was full of industrial areas. Nowadays they are turning those into condos and shopping malls. Manufacturing in Mexico during the 90s was also outsourced
Dude your videos are great, you're editing style is really entertaining. This is how you do education, you make it fun and interesting. Also I salute our Canadian and Mexican neighbors, we're only going to make it through the dark days ahead together. God Bless.
pretty rare on subjects like this. NAFTA thanks to being the magnum opus of the Clintons is often blindly defended by many Democrats and liberals who will even goes as far as ignoring criticism from Bill and Hillary to maintain it's public image. Meanwhile the Republicans and conservatives will attack NAFTA with equally mindless devotion, ignoring similar ideas from the GOP and ignoring the fact it was a free trade agreement and neoliberal brainchild that you'd normally expect from someone like one of the Bush's or from Reagan.
It wasn’t neutral it was in favor of free trade. For example he mentioned that free trade has created more jobs for the American population but conveniently forgot to mention that most of those jobs are lower quality than what was there before. He also forgot to mention that wages are only “higher” statistically because of the enormous earning gains made by the wealthy skewing the data. Lower and middle class wages are actually lower than they used to be in most cases. Prices are generally lower though that is true.
@@e.thomas2475 the wage drop/stagnation in the US started before NAFTA though, it started under the Stagflation of the 70s and the Reagan years and continued through NAFTA into the present day.
@@e.thomas2475 Real median earnings have steadily increased for women over the past five or so decades, which is a plus. For men, it's been flat since the 70's. Oh well, at least most goods and services are cheaper.
@@TheHamburgler123 Women earning more money, at the expense of men is not only not a plus, but disastrous. Women don't head families, men do; when a women earns more, she spends on herself, men spend on entire families. Everyone is poorer, because men are poorer.
For mexico have many disadvantages deal for many sectors like agriculture ,cinema and wages and lastly our dependence to us increase to more than 90%. And also the criminal organizations and violence were worsen by the nafta and our mines are controlled by canadians which have many ecological and exploitation scandals. If you analyze who benefits the nafta, where the americans and canadians mostly, not the mexicans.the only part that mexico who benefits where the north mexicans,quintana roo, yucatan and mexico city. The rest specially the south were harmed.
The real problem Mexico ran into was that the sector that it had an advantage in (manufacturing) was in competition with an exploding Chinese manufacturing sector. Mexican manufacturing and exports did grow considerably, but not what you would have expected (all things being equal) because Chinese manufacturing became so huge, so competitive and dominated the world market. In some ways the "rise of china" was a unique event in the history of the world, and Mexico just had bad timing. But the full fruits of NAFTA for Mexico might be coming in the next couple decades. The Mexican economy has greatly reformed since the pre-NAFTA corruption and backwardness, and Chinese manufacturing is becoming far less competitive. Mexican economic growth is up, manufacturing is accelerating, North American energy is comparatively stable and cheap. No Mexican should be wanting to reverse NAFTA right now. You're set for a mini-Chinese boom and on path to becoming a fully industrialized economy.
Para ser justos es grupo México quien tiene los peores escandalos ambientales, no es como si el dueño de las empresas mineras fuera mexicano haría las cosas distintas, si las leyes lo permiten así lo van a hacer. Pero la mayor parte del país es el norte y centro, no habría sector automotriz en Puebla ni Guadalajara sería lo mismo sin su sector tecnológico, definitivamente los ganadores son los norteños especialmente Nuevo León. Pero otros estados como Michoacán o Veracruz se han beneficiado de las exportaciones agrícolas. Los únicos que si creo no han recibido beneficios del tratado son Oaxaca, Chiapas y Guerrero pero ni de cerca son la mayor parte del país.
Mexican here. After NAFTA the variety of consumer products in Mexico exploded. I would go to the USA as a kid and marvel at the incredible variety, some years after nafta Mexico started to have an amazing diversity as well. Today although Mexico is not rich mexican supermarkets are pretty much first world, not joking, everything is here.
yeah, the agreement devastated small local economies to the point of humanitarian crisis and an ongoing exodus to the United States but our supermarkets now have a lot of shiny things ✨️ we have 20 different flavors of taco to choose
mientras Canada se hizo de nuestras minas y EU de nuestras granjas nosotros nos hicimos de sus productos basura. Les dimos nuestros recursos a cambio de 20 distintos tipos de refrescos. Increíble.
@@doingtime20 agrégale los procedimientos burocráticos y las justificaciones económicas que quieras. Eso fue lo que paso en resumidas cuentas, México nunca estuvo al nivel para competir en un mercado global, ni siquiera actualmente, entonces lo único que nos queda es vender el país al mejor postor, en este caso a EU y Canadá.
@@jesusolmos2987 Para nada, México tiene perfectamente el nivel para competir a nivel global, tal vez no en todo pero sí en muchas áreas. El problema no es el tratado como tal, es la falta de voluntad política (y capacidad general) para seguir con el plan establecido de manera adecuada.
Free trade is a terrible idea. When I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s an American could get a local manufacturing job anywhere and have a good life. Factories were everywhere and couldn’t find enough workers. Most things were made in America except very cheap plastic consumables and some electronics, which were made in China and Japan, respectively. In comes free trade and outsourcing, and what do we have to show for it? No middle class, very little manufacturing, even white collar jobs moving to Mexico and China. Oh, and yeah we get $5 throwaway clothes and $200 computers. Yippee
New hoser lore just dropped. Judging from the image at 5:31 it looks like hoser is from Elliot Lake, a small town in Northern Ontario once famed for its uranium mines which have all since shut down. Petition to get hoser on Wikipedia's list of notable people from Elliot Lake.
Old people tell me the days before nafta in Mexico, running to the border to smuggle THE forbidden goods, like TVs and shoes that aren’t the garbage local brands that existed here with 0 competitors before the agreement, I still have a smuggled Atari my uncle got at a tianguis in a Tamaulipas beach near the border
My dad worked in a factory in rural south carolina for years and years, until NAFTA. I was with him as we watched them box up all the machinery and move it to Mexico because we wanted the spare wood. After that, our quality of life cratered. So, for me, it was terrible. But the people who wrote it didn't care about people like my dad.
I'm from upstate NY and the only reason we aren't full part of the rust belt is we had secondary industries to fall back on. My county has 2 double college towns at its heart, so 4 total with 2 tech and 2 liberal arts and also split 2 state and 2 private for 1 of each combination. As far as i can tell education is the largest slice of our economy. (Mainly importing money from elsewhere via students spending it in small businesses or from state/federal grants) But we also have a lot of hydropower making for relatively cheap and green power, which has kept atleast some electricity hungry industries around like alcoa (american aluminum company) because aluminum is smelted from bauxite with huge electromagnets because fire isn't hot enough. It definitely makes me feel sorry for areas where a single factory or industry was the lifeblood of the city's economy. Because 1 person can decide its cheaper to go exploit someone in another nation and close the factory to have a better balanced spreadsheet with complete disregard for the lives ruined in the process.
Well my father was working in a "Glue company" in Mexico but with NAFTA was cheaper for them to just bring the glue form the super massive Factory in the USA than keeping a little factory in the Mexico. And he lost his well payed job. Everyone got affected and got benefits from them. Also Mexico lost 90% of there soda brands, now if you go to a store you will only find American soda brands (coca-cola, Pepsi etc). Everyone suffered. But people think and hope the benefits are bigger than the sacrifices.
It is too bad that the employer your father had couldn't have given its employees 2 weeks' notice before packing up. When Bush made decisions to help export my job to India in the early 2000s, my employer gave no warning before laying off almost everyone. It was rough trying to adapt into a completely different career on such short notice. My co-workers and I being thrown away with no common decency or warning forever changed the way many of us treated future employers.
@@deepspacecow2644 it is, but when i made my original comment i briefly looked into my home county's GDP breakdown to see what was actually supporting the economy, and it appears that the 4 colleges are the largest chunk of it, and that agriculture is shockingly small for a place that has an annual festival called "The Dairy Princess Parade". Upstate managed to not fall completely because we had enough of everything else to prop up the economy with. (Logging, farming, education, mooching off NYC via NYS government program, cheap power, ect.) Real industry is prefered, but everything else kept us from going full Gary Indiana.
this was a good video.. its funny bc this video is really close to home & I am wearing a turtleneck, contemplating getting a latte, before clocking into my non-manufacturing fortune 500 job in one of the cities you mentioned. There is more that can be said about the towns being empty. So many young people don't see a future so they just throw their lives away
To this day many of us in Central and Eastern New York, hate that we we end up losing many jobs and career choices because of the rust belt and it shows
Trade is only up if you count intrafirm transactions. GM shipping parts across the boarder to be assembled in Mexico isnt actually trade but its a nice trick to inflate numbers.
I like NAFTA. As a north american, lower prices are good; As an American losing my job to a illegal immigrant, not so much. Millions of jobs are lost; when counting citizens over location. Still, I like cheaper stuff.
@@monke1002 or we could just not let them in. Most of the immigrants aren’t from Mexico, a lot of Hondurans and Guatemalans are going through Mexico to get in through our border with Mexico because we aren’t defending it. There are even instances of Chinese people flying to Mexico so they can illegally enter the US through the southern border. We should deport all of the migrants who have come here and defend our borders with military force like Poland does. We have no obligation to these people.
@@monke1002 they’re not coming from Mexico generally nowadays, they’re going through Mexico from Honduras, Guatemala, Venezuela, etc. net migration of Mexicans has actually been negative for over a decade now. Also so what if it sucks in Mexico, we don’t owe them a damn thing, we don’t have to make sure it’s nice enough their or else they’ll illegally migrate here, we should be asserting our borders harshly.
Lmfao you’re funny af. I love the economist side of things and really hammering home the “on the one hand free trade is good, on the other hand free trade is bad” quote
That's why I prefer looking at individual consumption expenditures per capita. That's a much better indication of the financial well-being of the average American and is much harder to manipulate.
Canada, United States and Mexico
Properly abbreviated as C.U.M
As it is now known
It's actually just C.U.U.
United States of America
United Mexican States
Sorry to burst your bubble.
But next time someone tells you America isn't a country just say neither is Mexico
Edit: In hindsight maybe the "sorry to burst your bubble" sounded like I was trying to be a prick. Cause people took this way to seriously. And probably me 😮💨
@@baronvonjo1929 i prefer cum because its easier to say :)
@@baronvonjo1929 sorry to burst your bubble but literally no one calls it the "united mexican states", not even people in mexico call it that
we could burst another bubble and call canda its formal title too, the "Dominion of Canada", but literally no one calls canada that either.
@@baronvonjo1929 wouldn't it be CUE? ESTADOS unidos
cant believe when usa said “its trading time” and dealed all over the world, truly the moments of all time
Morbius and its consequences have been disastrous for the Internet
.....and the usa traded with the world
Man
@@bossanciso it’ll be years of this stale ass format smh
Comment something original
@@Kadoo70 I can't believe Mr. Fuhrer United America would do this
At university, my thesis advisor told me what happened with NAFTA when he was working in the Mexican chocolate industry. Nestlé and other multinationals began to buy Mexican chocolate companies and to reduce costs they decided to buy cocoa beans from Africa which were cheaper than Mexican cocoa this unleashed a crisis in Mexican cocoa producers who abandoned their crops and began to emigrate to the United States.
Nestlé, such a nice mega corporation.
@@TonyValdezCeballos
Nice?
@@19ars92 Google sarcasm
Yea there's good and bad effects of literally any decision ever
@@daquaviousbingleton7471 yea but this one was a beauty of a mistake, dont even try
"Made in Mexico" sounds better than "Made in China."
🤓
Made in the USA sounds better than all of them
@@tjmartin8516 low your wages
I remember when no one wanted the Sony televisions manufactured in Mexico. They didn't last long.
Both are made from cheap labor
I love how an axolotl is representing Mexico. Nice to see the axolotl representing its home! A lot of people don’t often think of Mexico as it’s one and only home outside of captivity.
Edit: Damn I didn’t think this was something that a lot of other people would find exciting. Thanks for the likes!
It's in the new 50 pesos bill.
I try not to spend them when I get one 😅
@@Irving_teran you know the dollar will keep falling to the mexican peso right 🤣
@@Eri503 he just said that the new $50 pesos bills are pretty
@@Eri503 sure it will bud
@@Eri503 Bruh... 18 pesos to a dollar for almost a decade, take the L
man, saying it hit mexican farmers the hardest was an understatement, it literally started an insurgency in south mexico
Yeah he skimmed on the Zapatistas and how the US trained Mexican special forces who ended up becoming the Zetas. Kinda blows a hole in this "jolly friendship" deal the North America made with Mexico. Basically Mexico is a place for US and Canadian companies to exploit cheap labor and cheap resources while also capturing their massive consumer market crushing local competitors which of course hurt Mexican economic development. This deal has been great only for the North.
@@franzjoseph1837 But if Mexico is more economically developed than before NAFTA, how is that hurting it? What's hurting Mexico's development more than anything is the crime and corruption just like most of Latin America.
@@franzjoseph1837 So this video is wrong?
@@songcramp66 I never said they were you just made a strawman up. What NAFTA did was flood the Mexican market with subsidized agricultural goods that killed small holding farmers livelihoods. This then forces them to sell their land usually to some agribusiness who sells their products to America. They then have no job and must either migrate to cities to work dangerous low paying jobs since they have no other qualifications beyond farming which they have done for generations. This leads to crime and narco trafficking to get by. Your simplistic reasoning around Latin America make you sound like some gusano who wants to pay no taxes and sell their respective countries to American and European corporations who the is confused by all the poverty and crime their desires and actions have caused. This is why Latin America is so poor every country had been a colony for some European empire which left behind conquistadors who became large land holders who then prevented the masses from real economic development or political representation. Hence why land reform is such a big issue in the region. Agriculture is king in Latin America and with it you can have a steady income.
@@cashewnuttel9054 I would say he missed out on that pretty crucial detail which is kinda important if you want to understand the effects of "Free Trade" deals between developing and developed nations. Usually understanding that world ideology is a race to the bottom in terms of wages also helps further illuminate why this deal isn't so good for Mexican local industries or small farmers who have no other means of making money. Also the whole US trained Mexican special forces who then became some of the most violent and feared narco enforcers in Mexico as being another " product" of this deal is a major thing especially pertaining to Mexico"s internal security.
Quickly becoming my fav channel. Love how you make this shit not boring at all. Very easy to understand and still be entertaining
Same as me
Becoming? How is it not your favourite channel yet?
It is biased towards the US though.
@@mattia8327 nahhhhhh, an Canadian being biased to their own continent (and their best friend) ? Lmao couldn't have seen that coming. but seriously, it's not that big of a deal and he does cover other countries not just north american ones
Its because it's simple most or half of the people understand this so yeah idk what I am saying but that is a psychological thing as time goes on his voice to will become also the part of this.
An important thing to understand about Mexico was that during the singing of Nafta Mexico was ruled as basically a single party dictatorship by the PRI, which had started as a socialist party following their victory following the Mexican civil war, only to become just yet another corrupt oligarchy so interlinked with the history of Mexico ever since the Spanish. The Mexican agriculture collapsed because the comfortable agricultural communes had been protected from foreign competition and as such they were basically decades behind the US. Simultaneously the Mexicans had no ability to develop a future for themselves or innovate without backing from the PRI which by the time of Nafta had grown to become a very exclusive elite. When the party lost power in 1997, what followed can be summed up as the total collapse of Mexican institutions from which it has yet to fully recover from considering that cartles which the PRI in its corruption allowed to gain so much power basically rule much of the country.
Blaming everything on the PRI is wrong. The cartels only became a problem when Calderon pulled a negative IQ move and declared war on them.
Mexico has been a false state ever since its government started the Cristero War against its own people.
And then once the PRI left cartel violence blew up to what it is today. Due to the end of back room deals made with theP.R.I and Sinaloa
You americans choosed those dictator, they were your puppets stop being hyprocritical. You have no right to moralize. usa is way more corrup than Mexico.
A lot of Americans and by proxy, Canadians and Western Europeans too, don't realize that Mexico wasn't really fully democratic until 2000.
NAFTA has been the name that my friends and I use for our Guilds as long as i can remember. The joke is we change what it stands for every time anyone asks.
To summarize this video. NAFTA: "Some of you may die (American manufacturing, Mexican agriculture)but that's a sacrifice I am willing to make."
Ok Duloc...
Liberalization baby. It was the plan all along
Globalism brought to you by WEF. Then we have a mostly artificial supply chain crises to double/triple the price of home goods, spare parts etc and even more wealth disappears into the vaults of the ultra wealthy
And i work in supply chain myself :)
As American manufacturer goes so does any chance at middle class for half the country.
Basically f*** my entire town and state, thanks a lot expert class bastards
I love the axolotl as Mexico's mascot
It's also on the 50 pesos bill
He's right. I grew up near Pittsburgh in the 70's-80's and the jobs were already leaving before NAFTA in the 90's. We knew that they were going to Asia (specifically China). Its just that the agreement was the handy catch-phrase for what was happening to Midwestern American jobs.
Dang. The Midwest was done dirty.
much better to Mexico than to china btw
It was leaving way before it. When Japan was at its peak most car manufacturers left us for Japan
What was causing the jobs to leave before the agreement? Didn't america have tariffs to protect those industries, which was why NAFTA was considered so bad?
And people think Mexicans were stealing their jobs when these companies left for China and Southeast Asia, much less for Mexico.
Canada, U.S. Mexico trade deal. Or how I like to call it: the C.U.M.DEAL
As a Ukrainian, the more I learn about the US, the more Eastern Europe just seems like pure satire of the US. Here no one knows what's going on with the politics, there isn't really a national economy but every city has it's own radically different lifestyle, the TV is just bullet points of events and let you fill in the blanks with your own ideology to make the ratings go up, etc.
The irony is the us is a satire of the entire world. We just adopt the quirky fun bits of other cultures, let them be a fad for a few years, and one day you wonder why there’s an entire section of a Spanish city copy pasted into a flyover city as a shopping mall for cars. Hell, “Chinese food” is almost pure American origin, just a way for Asian migrants to mix a little bit of their background with western palates. Fortune cookies came from California, and General Tso chicken is the prelude to McNuggets.
One reason for that is probably because we put our thumb on the scale to influence elections over there. I'm just guessing though.
@@SCIFIguy64 bro shut up
@@SCIFIguy64 "Chinese food" is the same thing as italian food.
Its supposed to be chinese-american, not exactly chinese 100%.
@@BILLYLTD1408 That was latin america in the 60s, not eastern europe in 2022.
America isnt that relevant to countries like Bosnia or Serbia.
NA just lives in our own happy bubble and were chill with it lol
welp this sure aged well....
Wdym
@@Bharlos Trump is killing the free trade deal, and will be enforcing tariffs on Mexico and Canada when he takes office
As a Mexican I sleep well knowing that Emma and her two moms are always protecting north America.
Stupid dead meme
Emma putting in more work than most people
The only mistake CPL Emma made was enlisting with a college degree instead of commissioning as an officer.
😂Emma and her two moms turning Ivan and his ancient, museum tanks to fertilizer. Safe and far away controlling advanced Reaper drones, while Ivan is only given cardboard bullet vests xD
@@bogdanov2395 German….righhhht. Sure thing “Bogdanov”, remember when this winter was to be cold and Europe was suppose to freeze? 😢☕️
There is Even a proposal made by the mexican president in the reunion of North América leaders on México City, of reinforce the manufacturing in NA to lessen the reliance on Asia imports (mainly china) in order to relocate all the Jobs on asian soil to North American jobs, which is another way of becoming more competitive as an economic zone. In México there is a lot of hope in the agreement, we are hoping in becoming the manufacturing muscle in the region;)
Makes a ton of sense. Mexico has the energy grid, cheap wages, and natural resources for a thriving manufacturing industry and the fact their next door neighbors to the US, have easy access to world markets, and have extremely close cultural ties to both the US, EU, and the rest of Latin American than China and with far fewer strings attached. The recent trade war and China using their economy to bully others isnt anything new: Mao did the same with his Soviet allies to extort aid, before that the Qing spent centuries using both their large markets and their stranglehold on some goods like tea to manipulate other countries, and even before that China has had a long history of establishing monopolies and using those to influence other countries. At various points China has used monopolies on porcelain, tea, silk, and some foods and spices for both profits and to hold over other countries heads; they've even done the same to their own citizens and did things like restrict access to the coast to maintain a regional monopoly on salt.
that arrangement would benefit all north americans i feel. US design and planning skills paired with cheap(er than US) mexican labor.
If we combine the strenghts of every región into 1 block, NA is unstoppable
The arrangement would not benefit all Americans. The labor costs would drive prices way up.
@@arthas640 So the US should move to Mexico rather than back home where worker guarantees have more merit at least under US law.
Worth noting part of the rust belt's problems come from US protectionism in the form of the Jones act. In the 19th century what we now call the rust belt held a major advantage in transportation costs compared to much of the world because all the primary industrial steps (coal, iron ore, oil, factories, etc.) were all easily situated on connected inland waterways. Even now the rust belt could still hold a competitive advantage if we brought back cheap water transportation combined with our existing cheap flat land and *relatively* cheap energy.
@@alexanderdvanbalderen9803 The Jones Act makes water transport more expensive than it actually is
@@sajivsatyal7507 thats only for shipping going from US port to US port. Foreign ships can import and transport goods from a foreign port to a US port.
@@TheWaynester101 yeah but the point is if it was repealed a ship could say pick up coal in WV take it to Ohio have it turned into steel taken to Texas to make cars than shipped back down to New Orleans for foreign markets
@@sajivsatyal7507 Do you even know what the act is? It helps the manufacturing sector and jobs by saying only ships built in the USA can trade between US ports
Do you even know what the act is? It helps the manufacturing sector and
jobs by saying only ships built in the USA can trade between US ports. Biden supports the Jones Act and wants to expand it to help the Midwest by encouraging more infrastructure to be built solely in the USA.
Mexico's axolotol looks so polite. How could you not trade with him?
Fr
Lol
Axolotl*
I came in reluctant, but as someone that has worked in all 3 countries, and worked on the transfer of a dying factory in upstate New York to Mexico, I gotta say you did a good job, you went the long way, but there is one more to highlight, at some point the manufacturing in the US can get restrictively expensive, to save the firm you have to make difficult decisions. If you send the operation to Mexico you can keep better control over your IP, China is no longer the appealing destination it once was, IP is not respected there.
@omacruz7177, IP was never ever respected in China, whatever gave you that idea?
Of course! Mexico is under your control😂
@@zeqc2022 ?? are you dumb or do you not know what IP is
@@zeqc2022 with enough money unfortunately yes my nation can be controlled
When corruption and cartels are no more, my country will become top tier. I hope it happens in my lifetime…
When people are richer, crime goes down
top tier? lol goodluck Mexico isn't really known for doing top tier things
@@Elliesbow food, art, music, architecture, services, cars...
@@pottertheavenger1363 you can say that literally about any country. Cars? really? GM and Ford are American lol they just hire you to make them that doesn't make you known for them.
@@Elliesbow But the fact remains that each of those things are top tier, recognized worldwide.
the three amigos are an unstoppable trio
Rip takeoff
@@Perspective.z0 fk that guy
Jajajaja amigos the gringos yeah aré you sure they dont need noting somo say they have n eggs
we don't see enough of the US Canada and Mexico together in media
That dance they do with their hips after they announce themselves 😅
My dad grew up in Youngstown, Ohio. When the steel mills left, the city basically crumbled, and it's honestly really depressing to be in now. It's fun learning about things like this that can explain my lived experience, especially when you break it down in such an easy to understand way. Thanks so much!
It's also a pretty interesting contrast to the end of the video where Hoser pointed out how economists say the effects of NAFTA were a net positive but that's hard to say when it directly affected people like your dad and his town
You should know that the steel mill probably went to China, since Mexican steel output hasn't grown at all since 1994. In fact, NAFTA is the reason cars are still being made in the American Rust Belt, rather than China
Down from Ohio
Nah bro can't even have a city in Ohio 😭💀
Ohio is a joke now
I'm from the OH and PA border and once all the steel and GM left, the area died. It is constantly on the edge of collapse if federal aid doesn't come. The weird part is people keep clinging to the hope that the industry is coming back. I left ten years ago and never want to go back.
The wild part is the area I lived in was Democrat for over 40 years. Trump was the first election where my county voted red.
It doesn't matter what party your county votes for, NAFTA is bipartisan and the jobs aren't coming back. People need to innovate
@@hidude177 Not only that, before Trump, Republicans were free trade all the time, while Democrats were just for free trade most of the time.
I agree people need to innovate. If u ask Mexicans if nafta was a good deal they would tell you that nafta destroyed the agriculture sector but also improve a lot of other stuff. Trade deals are no perfect but the benefits are more than the downsides of it.
Oh I sure hope nothing bad happens to this trade deal
In addition to being educational, I just want to say the animals you have chosen for each countries are cute as heck.
Beaver, Bison, and Axolotl
I love how they avoid some of the stereotypes too. People often go with America as the Bald Eagle even though a bison is a much better symbol: they're big, tough, mean, eat anything, and are an excellent source of red meat just like America.
@@arthas640 Granted, we killed the hell outta both of them through hunting and wasteful sport killing until we finally kicked our conservationist machine into gear. Both bison and bald eagles are alternately representative of the US, depending on the region
I like them a LOT better than those soulless countryballs
It is a no-brainer, US, Canada, and Mexico are better together. Yes, the transitional phase isn't fun for many people but many of the negative impacts is subsiding or bounce back (somewhat).
@@rioluna6058 Panama won't be allowed in until they fix their Chinese problem--and specifically take back the canal from the CCP.
@@r.a.5086 I prefer China over the U.S anyway. And the Canal has a freemason problem more than anything
The not fun part = a higher crime rate
Still waiting for the bounce back. Rust belt is still pretty fucked 🤣
@@rioluna6058 Ellos no quieren aceptar derrota en el sector económico asi que dicen que hacer cualquier negocio con China es lo mismo que ser una colonia China y piensan que pueden cambiar su suerte por medio de la difamación.
Just to remind everyone, there are plenty of people in countries across the EU that complain about similar trade agreements & economic cooperation too.
Often what benefits the "MOST" people ends up hurting others. Economic cooperation can help raise the standards of living for everyone, but there will always be certain aspects that can hurt too. There's a reason why "BREXIT" happened, and it's because these things aren't always popular (or even understood).
And no, I'm not saying Brexit was a result of "Euro NAFTA," only that enough people prioritized what they saw as their own self/best interest over that of being part of a greater whole.
Yeah, the problem with these trade deals is that while they end up being net positives for countries as a whole, they screw over certain groups and regions-- leaving them extremely bitter and nationalistic. These people, in turn, are susceptible to extremist ideologies.
@@ranoellaexactly
The greater good isn't always a greater good. Sacrificing thousands of people for the million does not justify the means especially when it's really only inolving the market. If the people abandoned were actually helped to get back on their feet, it wouldn't be so bad but governments and companies never care about the individuals affected by these decisions
@@silentstorm5439 that’s a great point.
Who exactly determines what the so-called _”greater good”_ is anyways?
So far from what I have seen since the 1990s the leadership that has been making these decisions on NAFTA have not been good faith actors in determining the _”greater good”_ regarding public policy and its side effects, good or bad🤨
The problem is, these negative effects can be anticipated and reacted to...but they aren't.... generally speaking the country benefits 5 times for every 1 unit of loss. So really assistance and training programs should really be invested in....
When I saw the thumbnail I was like what the heck is mexico, then I clicked the video and realized it was an axolotl. Nice touch man.. very nice touch
Yooooo, that game at 5:24 “is it Michigan or the Soviet Union” literally made pause this to lmao, god damn that beautifully done.
As someone from Michigan, I do gotta say that the Jones Act probably killed our industries. Thankfully we’re recovering and bouncing back, but I don’t think we’ll truly see big change for another generation or two minimum. Love it here, and I am a fan of the AMCTA- I know, hyperbolic in a way lol
México and the US are not enemies, we can be the manufacturing muscle of the world together
The jobs would've gone to china if they didn't go to Mexico
Yeah like the image of what someone thinks of Detroit at its absolute worst isn't true anymore. From stuff Iv seen online in recent years the city still isn't close to how good is was and still struggles but has slowly bounced back. It looks like those old manufacturing jobs have steadily been replaced by a variety of different markets
@@bxkxhxkg82 I agree, once USA Canada and Mexico work together closer, we can all benefit and become wealthier and stronger. More investment in Mexican manufacturing and North American industrial jobs would absolutely be ideal, and it’s already becoming a reality.
I mean I think that if Mexico gets more benefits for its workers and better compensation, that's a no lose situation, Mexico is becoming quite wealthy with foreign investments, specially the northern states that border the US, so it is just a matter of maybe a decade to see Mexico rise as a developed country, which by latin america standards would be unheard of
Once the cartels and corruption are stomped out that is
To be fair Chile is pretty close to be a developed country.
@@Sceptonic Quite hard considering that corruption is the building block of Latin America
@@Sceptonic that's correct, economic development also greatly helps to reduce crime and corruption, even the video mentioned how mexico has made huge improvements in that area since nafta was introduced
@@leoperez6737 they are doing well as a country, however, last thing I heard is that heir economic model collapsed and they were reforming their constitution. They had issues with social inequality brought by their technocrats. The reason Mexico is doing somewhat better is only because the US is pushing Mexico to do so, no free market, no deal
another banger by ma boy h0se... wait what?!
Silicon Valley was literally saved from Japanese competition (which was on course to wipe it out) during the Reagan admin. They forced Japan to put quotas on semiconductor exports to limit competition. This was a very wise move, and enabled America's digital economy today.
That makes me happy because silicon valley is my home
thank you ronald reagan for this hell. very cool!
Those quotas didn't mean much. Japan choose to was specialize in the memory market which they thought would be big. But it turned out to be a low profit commodity business. And an even bigger mistake was focusing more on hardware that software. Software turned out to be more valuable and transformative.
Mexico's agricultural losses also include the loss of various heritage crops, varieties and types of corn.
I can't thank you enough for providing a nuanced, balanced take.
While I personally think NAFTA is good (with additional environmental and workers rights protections), I can't ignore it's very real effects on places like the Midwest, although I do think embracing post industrial industry and trade with Canada could/will remedy that.
"post industrial industry". What the hell are you on about? To make a final good you need refined resources. You can't get rid of the industrial step to that good unless you mean "pre industrial industry" because there is no way to transcend the industrial sector.
Slave labor and gig economy goes brrrrr
I come from the midwest and my hometown hasn't been hit too hard. We still have a small industrial sector, but it doesn't employ much of the town. We are doing fine now, and agriculture is large in the areas surrounding the town. I really hope that a tech company could start in the Midwest, could seriously mitigate some negative effects, and hey, you're close to those Virginian servers :D
@@benalor1973 I think he meant industries are turning away from factories and becoming more like Tech Giants. But I could be wrong
@@ProxiProtogen, That still doesn't make sense. They aren't becoming tech companies. Even if they use more robots they are still producing the same industrial goods. Which is just a capital good and that process has been done since the first ever business.
The three friends are neighbors. Canada and US are brothers while US and Mexico are business partners but not friends even though working relations are good and Canada and Mexico are like friends who would borrow some of their stuff and do business. The US really love Mexico’s tacos and Canada’s pancakes with maple syrup. Canada visits YS to watch hockey matches and drink Moosehead. While in business visits, mexico and us would also drink some Corona’s and modelos. The US isn’t a fan of Mexico’s strange way of doing their own business since the US aren’t a fan of drugs smuggling in their own lawn. Tell me what they are in your opinions. Pls don’t get offended
US and Mexico are not enemies and relations are very good, its fair to say that their diplomatic status is "friendly". They are just not military allies because Mexico broke their alliance when the US invaded Irak in 2003 because they thought that the war was unjustified (and they were right).
Mexico and the USes past history and the modern cartel issues prevent them from being brothers.
@@quisqueyanguy120 Then what's the deal with the wall?
@@WhoAmIHmmm there’s just mass hysteria in the US about Latino immigrants. Looking past those racists, our relationship is still pretty good
@@WhoAmIHmmm central Americans and Mexico still claims the southwest
Fun fact: If you spell Canada,The United States and Mexico by their first initials you will find a funny word
I found 💦!!
I'm so pissed the 2026 world cup doesn't have these animals as mascots. The axolotl is cute as fuck, but also the bison and the beaver
Man, you really nailed it! This was the most US accurate version about NAFTA I have ever seen! With both sides of understanding, with your touch about what you think. It probably missed that the worth of money in Mexico has dropped dramatically since 1994, there was a really bad devaluation after the trade, where peso dropped its value 4 times agianst dolar, giving the perfect start for US and Canada over Mexico in this agreement. Peso exchange has been part of the trade too, "it has to lose its value against dolar" over time so the finances of the maquila industry can maintain a good profit. Even doe the "super peso" is really strong these days, it will return to its agreed state sooner or later.
fun fact: if you translate nafta from lithuanian to english you will get oil.
Coincidence? I think not
I love how the term "averages" makes everything sound better.
Like average wages ? Yeah, even more so when its not the median
This has to be one of the videos of all time, truly inspirational
I remember around 2000, reading reports from workers in mexico employed by multination corps that came in after 90s NAFTA. One place they talked about how they worked so tirerlessly they crippled their hands and the lighting was so poor the workers damaged their vision. So many people needed jobs, disposable workers could easily be replaced with fresh ones.
That's a bad idea that the farming went to the United States because corn is originally from Mexico so if anybody likes corn the best corn is from Mexico not from the US
Don’t ever let them make you take the jokes out
I live nearby Endicott, NY, and it's just sad to see what happened to the area after IBM left. The whole rust belt needs a lot more than just new jobs at this point.
Fr though unless your Indiana your fucking suffering in the rest belt Yeah Indiana despite it's weird local politics is actually doing about the same pre decline and has a rising population rather than stagnation
@@Aragon1500 what else better to do than sit around and be depressed. Start fucking a shit ton like they do in Wyoming winters.
I'm also from near Endicott. My mother worked for IBM.
When I got old enough, I moved away. It's super depressing to come and visit, but sometimes I see small glimmers of hope.
That "is it Michigan or the Soviet Union" got me 😂😂😂😂
An important thing to remember is that the united states heavily subsidized/subsidies their agricultural sector past consumption demands. In conjunction with these subsidies, the advent of monoculture and fertilizers made overproduction and waste an almost certainty. This is all without mentioning other trade agreements that were neither free nor fair. What this resulted in was exports by the united states that out-priced local goods in mexico. In response, aside from the point mentioned in this video on steel, the Mexicans pivoted into more specialized agriculture meant for exportation - ie, avacados and coco beans. The problem with that is that these goods dont nutritiously feed people diverse diets, that they are monopolized by a handful of agribusinesses, and are largely vulnerable to external shocks
😮😢🎉🎉❤😅
Late reply, but I’m sure the reason for the USA subsidies of agriculture is food security. “Every country is three meals away from a revolution” to quote some dead fictional guy (: and subsidies of essentials, from food to gas, is pretty common in countries.
You can look at China for an example of food insecurity. Not subsidies, but China imports most of its basic food essentials (as well as energy) and is in constant fear of their enemies blockading imports. This has definitely affected their foreign policy. (Meanwhile, the USA produces more of its own oil, affecting foreign policy, particularly in the ME, as well.)
Not to say that your post is wrong. Far from it. Actions have consequences, and USA’s subsidizing its food industry does more than keep its citizens reasonably fed.
funny, well edited and researched, 10/10 video, will def re-watch it in the future.
i like this new youtuber, maybe he'll fill the void left by h0ser
Felt like the jokes were really good this time around, keep up the awesome content!
Something about these economic unions that often goes unmentioned is the fact that these unions are only as strong as the weakest nation within them. No one in their right mind would say Canada, Mexico, and the US are equals when it comes their institutions. Same thing for the EU. It's why the Greek debt crisis really dented the EU and served a foreshadow of political and socioeconomic issues to come.
Keep in mind that México has a lot of oil and minerals, something temping for American and Canadian corporations.
@@ramonarellano4988the U.S. has the largest geographic oil reserves on the planet
@@youtubehasbigcringe, and yet it keeps intervening countries with oil.
@@ramonarellano4988the US doesn’t import oil. It’s self sufficient. It fights proxy wars against Russia in Syria and props up Saudi Arabia against nuclear armed Iran. The world isn’t nice. And demonizing America for foreign wars is ridiculous, as it’s underwritten the most peaceful and prosperous time in world history.
@righteousmammon9011 , the middle east is totally destroyed, prosperous times?.
Seeing pictures of some of the towns and cities around my area in the 20’s-60’s just resonates feelings of missed opportunities and frustration. Some towns were able to recover, the one I’m in relies heavily on yearly tourism and has flourished, many others aren’t so lucky and either died in the 2008 recession, or are still dying.
Nothing says “I love exporting industry to the Chinese” like looking at the St. Louis/Chicago world’s fairs and then seeing each city in full today with all of the neighborhoods you usually want to avoid.
I live in Pittsburgh. I'm glad our city skyline isn't blackened with Bethlehem steel mill smoke every day like it was in the late 19th century, and actually has a diversified industry. Education, health care, robotics, software engineering, and tourism is now what we do. Honestly, with how our city's industry is now, I'd say it's better than it ever was. Since we aren't so dependent anymore on just one industry it's brought some comfort in that there's some stability to the city's job market now. The suburbs around Pittsburgh have been exploding with growth because of all the new tech jobs and the negative growth in the city has been decreasing every year. Hopefully in the next few decades we'll start seeing the Rustbelt shed it's rust.
That's normal towns come and go I'm in the middle of the rust belt either adapt (move to where the money is) or reinvent the town you live in (like turning the old factory into an art gallery) or die
I really love your personifications of the countries! The buffalo, beaver, and axolotl are all very unique. I also love the Asian animals as well
But why US's animal isn't the famous bald eagle?
@@somepersonsome9355 too stereotypical I guess ? I’m not sure.
Econ major type of comment
@@somepersonsome9355 I'd imagine forur possible reasons:
1) too easy or too obvious, they'd rather get more creative
2) buffalos are more imposing which represents the US's global scope a lot more
3) bald eagles don't look as recognisable when coloured with the country's flag
4) they already wanted to go with the axolotl for Mexico but if they went with the bald eagle with the US but not the royal eagle with Mexico it wouldn't make sense so they went with something else
Ross Perot was correct. So many 'buts' in NAFTA. GDP did go up but there was a very cynical wealth redistribution involved in that. The investor class did great but at the expense of the working class.
Fast forward 40 years and this is kind of how EVERYTHING now goes. America is long overdue for a French Revolution sort of thing.
graph goes up means gud
Will never happen, because people have been brainwashed into hating each other, the common people have been divided and are more likely to turn on each other than their exploiters. How many people will tell you that immigrants, or white people are the cause of all troubles, versus the rich, the powerful and politicians? A poor white from west Virginia has more in common with a Mexican immigrant in Los Angeles than with Donald Trump or Joe Biden, yet they hate each other instead of their oppressors, and they will love their politicians on "their side" I mean come on man, so many poor people love Trump, a billionaire, who has always been rich, was born rich and they think he cares about them. Biden is not as wealthy but he's still part of the ruling class. People will love Trump and Biden and hate their neighbor, or some random farmer or immigrant 1000 miles away, it's sad.
We need a Ross Perot, not a bloody revolution to prop up some, AH, Stalin or Napoleon.
New NAFTA has greatly equalized the fairness between the 3 partners. Old NAFTA was fine but had weird exemptions and exceptions that made no sense.
I know this is a relatively petty thing, but it always kinda bugs me when I buy something from the US, get it shipped to me in Canada, and pay significant duty on it - whereas I can order the same thing from the EU or Asia, and I dunno it just often seems to be less.
Part of me wishes shipments between the NAFTA countries (yes I'm still calling it that) were duty free, or there was some other real incentive to buy North American stuff.
It seems you know your stuff man, however the outsourcing of jobs not only hit the US, here in Mexico also surged a rust belt when manufacturing went to the US-Mexico border and China and India. Mexico City 40 years ago when I was a kid was full of industrial areas. Nowadays they are turning those into condos and shopping malls. Manufacturing in Mexico during the 90s was also outsourced
What do you think about his recent assessment of mexico?
Dude your videos are great, you're editing style is really entertaining.
This is how you do education, you make it fun and interesting.
Also I salute our Canadian and Mexican neighbors, we're only going to make it through the dark days ahead together.
God Bless.
Man. I love this version of “hoser”. He’s definitely becoming more humorous
A video that was entertaining and informative while being neutral? Ahh yes another classic hoser banger
pretty rare on subjects like this. NAFTA thanks to being the magnum opus of the Clintons is often blindly defended by many Democrats and liberals who will even goes as far as ignoring criticism from Bill and Hillary to maintain it's public image. Meanwhile the Republicans and conservatives will attack NAFTA with equally mindless devotion, ignoring similar ideas from the GOP and ignoring the fact it was a free trade agreement and neoliberal brainchild that you'd normally expect from someone like one of the Bush's or from Reagan.
It wasn’t neutral it was in favor of free trade.
For example he mentioned that free trade has created more jobs for the American population but conveniently forgot to mention that most of those jobs are lower quality than what was there before.
He also forgot to mention that wages are only “higher” statistically because of the enormous earning gains made by the wealthy skewing the data. Lower and middle class wages are actually lower than they used to be in most cases.
Prices are generally lower though that is true.
@@e.thomas2475 the wage drop/stagnation in the US started before NAFTA though, it started under the Stagflation of the 70s and the Reagan years and continued through NAFTA into the present day.
@@e.thomas2475 Real median earnings have steadily increased for women over the past five or so decades, which is a plus. For men, it's been flat since the 70's. Oh well, at least most goods and services are cheaper.
@@TheHamburgler123 Women earning more money, at the expense of men is not only not a plus, but disastrous. Women don't head families, men do; when a women earns more, she spends on herself, men spend on entire families. Everyone is poorer, because men are poorer.
Damn hoser you are really improving your videos more and more with each one, keep it up!
Fun fact: "nafta" means "crude oil" in Latvian.
Your channel is the most entertaining on TH-cam. Can’t stay away from it!
For mexico have many disadvantages deal for many sectors like agriculture ,cinema and wages and lastly our dependence to us increase to more than 90%. And also the criminal organizations and violence were worsen by the nafta and our mines are controlled by canadians which have many ecological and exploitation scandals. If you analyze who benefits the nafta, where the americans and canadians mostly, not the mexicans.the only part that mexico who benefits where the north mexicans,quintana roo, yucatan and mexico city. The rest specially the south were harmed.
The real problem Mexico ran into was that the sector that it had an advantage in (manufacturing) was in competition with an exploding Chinese manufacturing sector. Mexican manufacturing and exports did grow considerably, but not what you would have expected (all things being equal) because Chinese manufacturing became so huge, so competitive and dominated the world market. In some ways the "rise of china" was a unique event in the history of the world, and Mexico just had bad timing.
But the full fruits of NAFTA for Mexico might be coming in the next couple decades. The Mexican economy has greatly reformed since the pre-NAFTA corruption and backwardness, and Chinese manufacturing is becoming far less competitive. Mexican economic growth is up, manufacturing is accelerating, North American energy is comparatively stable and cheap. No Mexican should be wanting to reverse NAFTA right now. You're set for a mini-Chinese boom and on path to becoming a fully industrialized economy.
Para ser justos es grupo México quien tiene los peores escandalos ambientales, no es como si el dueño de las empresas mineras fuera mexicano haría las cosas distintas, si las leyes lo permiten así lo van a hacer. Pero la mayor parte del país es el norte y centro, no habría sector automotriz en Puebla ni Guadalajara sería lo mismo sin su sector tecnológico, definitivamente los ganadores son los norteños especialmente Nuevo León. Pero otros estados como Michoacán o Veracruz se han beneficiado de las exportaciones agrícolas. Los únicos que si creo no han recibido beneficios del tratado son Oaxaca, Chiapas y Guerrero pero ni de cerca son la mayor parte del país.
@Kroneckeri was refering to the mexican film industry.
NAFTA is no perfect, but honestly, is one of the best deals in the history of deals between nations
North American gang rise up 🇺🇸🇨🇦🇲🇽
Why are his videos so good?
This is how i start my day every day
Edu-tainment in the grand tradition of the TH-cam greats like Sam O'Nella & Half as Interesting. 😃 Subscribed!
Id gladly trade away all my modern electronics for being able to go live like a farmer in the 19. century.
Well, looks like this is all up in flames
Mexican here. After NAFTA the variety of consumer products in Mexico exploded. I would go to the USA as a kid and marvel at the incredible variety, some years after nafta Mexico started to have an amazing diversity as well. Today although Mexico is not rich mexican supermarkets are pretty much first world, not joking, everything is here.
yeah, the agreement devastated small local economies to the point of humanitarian crisis and an ongoing exodus to the United States
but our supermarkets now have a lot of shiny things ✨️ we have 20 different flavors of taco to choose
mientras Canada se hizo de nuestras minas y EU de nuestras granjas nosotros nos hicimos de sus productos basura. Les dimos nuestros recursos a cambio de 20 distintos tipos de refrescos. Increíble.
@jesusolmos2987 No es tan simple.
@@doingtime20 agrégale los procedimientos burocráticos y las justificaciones económicas que quieras. Eso fue lo que paso en resumidas cuentas, México nunca estuvo al nivel para competir en un mercado global, ni siquiera actualmente, entonces lo único que nos queda es vender el país al mejor postor, en este caso a EU y Canadá.
@@jesusolmos2987 Para nada, México tiene perfectamente el nivel para competir a nivel global, tal vez no en todo pero sí en muchas áreas. El problema no es el tratado como tal, es la falta de voluntad política (y capacidad general) para seguir con el plan establecido de manera adecuada.
I love the way you make this videos interesting and easy to understand, keep it up this way 💯
Free trade is a terrible idea. When I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s an American could get a local manufacturing job anywhere and have a good life. Factories were everywhere and couldn’t find enough workers. Most things were made in America except very cheap plastic consumables and some electronics, which were made in China and Japan, respectively.
In comes free trade and outsourcing, and what do we have to show for it? No middle class, very little manufacturing, even white collar jobs moving to Mexico and China. Oh, and yeah we get $5 throwaway clothes and $200 computers. Yippee
New hoser lore just dropped. Judging from the image at 5:31 it looks like hoser is from Elliot Lake, a small town in Northern Ontario once famed for its uranium mines which have all since shut down. Petition to get hoser on Wikipedia's list of notable people from Elliot Lake.
Uranium Fever has sure got that town down
Old people tell me the days before nafta in Mexico, running to the border to smuggle THE forbidden goods, like TVs and shoes that aren’t the garbage local brands that existed here with 0 competitors before the agreement, I still have a smuggled Atari my uncle got at a tianguis in a Tamaulipas beach near the border
My city was screwed by this agreement (Evansville) we had some manufacturing plants and their companies left to Mexico
In Mexico agriculture is broken because of the usa agriculture, people has to find a way every chage
My dad worked in a factory in rural south carolina for years and years, until NAFTA. I was with him as we watched them box up all the machinery and move it to Mexico because we wanted the spare wood. After that, our quality of life cratered. So, for me, it was terrible. But the people who wrote it didn't care about people like my dad.
I'm from upstate NY and the only reason we aren't full part of the rust belt is we had secondary industries to fall back on. My county has 2 double college towns at its heart, so 4 total with 2 tech and 2 liberal arts and also split 2 state and 2 private for 1 of each combination. As far as i can tell education is the largest slice of our economy. (Mainly importing money from elsewhere via students spending it in small businesses or from state/federal grants)
But we also have a lot of hydropower making for relatively cheap and green power, which has kept atleast some electricity hungry industries around like alcoa (american aluminum company) because aluminum is smelted from bauxite with huge electromagnets because fire isn't hot enough.
It definitely makes me feel sorry for areas where a single factory or industry was the lifeblood of the city's economy. Because 1 person can decide its cheaper to go exploit someone in another nation and close the factory to have a better balanced spreadsheet with complete disregard for the lives ruined in the process.
Well my father was working in a "Glue company" in Mexico but with NAFTA was cheaper for them to just bring the glue form the super massive Factory in the USA than keeping a little factory in the Mexico. And he lost his well payed job. Everyone got affected and got benefits from them. Also Mexico lost 90% of there soda brands, now if you go to a store you will only find American soda brands (coca-cola, Pepsi etc). Everyone suffered. But people think and hope the benefits are bigger than the sacrifices.
It is too bad that the employer your father had couldn't have given its employees 2 weeks' notice before packing up. When Bush made decisions to help export my job to India in the early 2000s, my employer gave no warning before laying off almost everyone. It was rough trying to adapt into a completely different career on such short notice. My co-workers and I being thrown away with no common decency or warning forever changed the way many of us treated future employers.
@@jasonreed7522 Upstater here as well, the dairy industry seems to be still going strong
@@deepspacecow2644 it is, but when i made my original comment i briefly looked into my home county's GDP breakdown to see what was actually supporting the economy, and it appears that the 4 colleges are the largest chunk of it, and that agriculture is shockingly small for a place that has an annual festival called "The Dairy Princess Parade".
Upstate managed to not fall completely because we had enough of everything else to prop up the economy with. (Logging, farming, education, mooching off NYC via NYS government program, cheap power, ect.) Real industry is prefered, but everything else kept us from going full Gary Indiana.
this was a good video.. its funny bc this video is really close to home & I am wearing a turtleneck, contemplating getting a latte, before clocking into my non-manufacturing fortune 500 job in one of the cities you mentioned. There is more that can be said about the towns being empty. So many young people don't see a future so they just throw their lives away
To this day many of us in Central and Eastern New York, hate that we we end up losing many jobs and career choices because of the rust belt and it shows
In my opinion the US has a very hard time transitioning from industrial to better paid service jobs because college is still a luxury.
College isnt a luxury its just an ineffective scam for the most part
Yeah it's quite a mystery isn't it
Still? College is 20x more expensive today than it was 50 years ago
@@ForageGardener total mystery oooooooo
@@d3thkn1ghtmcgee74 we can't all be accountants lol
Trade is only up if you count intrafirm transactions. GM shipping parts across the boarder to be assembled in Mexico isnt actually trade but its a nice trick to inflate numbers.
love the editing on this! And I'm only a few minutes in, your style and skill has really grown!
Subbed. Sat thru the entire video without getting bored
definitely a banger by ma boy hoser, hope many will follow soon
I like NAFTA. As a north american, lower prices are good; As an American losing my job to a illegal immigrant, not so much. Millions of jobs are lost; when counting citizens over location. Still, I like cheaper stuff.
They need to improve Mexico so the workers don’t need to cross the border
When the US helps Mexico (which would be a dream) wiping off the cartels, we’ll become a developed nation. Only thing holding us back.
@@monke1002 or we could just not let them in. Most of the immigrants aren’t from Mexico, a lot of Hondurans and Guatemalans are going through Mexico to get in through our border with Mexico because we aren’t defending it. There are even instances of Chinese people flying to Mexico so they can illegally enter the US through the southern border. We should deport all of the migrants who have come here and defend our borders with military force like Poland does. We have no obligation to these people.
You're a cherry picker?
@@monke1002 they’re not coming from Mexico generally nowadays, they’re going through Mexico from Honduras, Guatemala, Venezuela, etc. net migration of Mexicans has actually been negative for over a decade now. Also so what if it sucks in Mexico, we don’t owe them a damn thing, we don’t have to make sure it’s nice enough their or else they’ll illegally migrate here, we should be asserting our borders harshly.
Canadians, Mexicans, and Americans on their way to the comments section:
*Insert Patrick Bateman Walking Meme*
Lmfao you’re funny af. I love the economist side of things and really hammering home the “on the one hand free trade is good, on the other hand free trade is bad” quote
LMAO at the graphics @ 02:45 "The world's largest economy both production wise AND PHYSICALLY 😂🤣😂😆
In fact Mexico is leaning towards China than the u.s., we will have a BYD factory soon here in Mexico, chineese cars are cheaper and better built
Would like to see a video on Colombia. Or Azerbaijan and Armenia.
Updating and renegotiating NAFTA was inevitable
Most of the time, government planning delays economic development most of the time (see New Deal).
I really love the animals/countries, it makes this channel super unique
Ah, that explains why my dad and my uncles where poor in Mexico in the 80s (they where all farmers)
There is a crazy amount of of manipulation going on with the wages vs productivity graph. Yaron Brook talked about this.
The graph was not realistic
that's not even the worse part, because the wages-cost of living graph is the same as well and that's what mostly hurt the bulk of workers
That's why I prefer looking at individual consumption expenditures per capita. That's a much better indication of the financial well-being of the average American and is much harder to manipulate.
I think a "First Nation's People's of Canada vs The Future" would make a great video. Due to their unique political position in Canada.
*WAS one of the trade deals of all time
..... It's not technically dead untill Jan 20
The last 2 minutes was possibly the best explanation I’ve ever heard in my life
I've lived in Michigan my entire life. Your comparison is accurate, at least for what used to be Motor City