I would be more comfortable with this video if I didn't get the feeling every word is scrip[ted to infomercial perfection, and read with all the sincerity of a Japanese robot.
Desal is fine for coastal areas, but if you add the cost of transporting long distance, then price increases sharply. Good thing about the S.F. Bay area is brackish SF bay.
But some of the same concepts can leverage into brackish water supplies elsewhere, and perhaps outputs from sewage treatement and storm sewer systems as well - and that water is local to the place it would be used...
Gravity induced vacuum distillation will do what you want faster and cheaper. Water boils in a vacuum at room temperatures 75 degrees F . You can make a cheap vacuum system capable of a hard vacuum of 30 inches of mercury with piping in a vertical direction 12 meters inside an open topped pipe length 10 meters. The inside pipe has valves at the top and bottom, the inside pipe is filled with seawater to the top then close top valve and open the bottom valve gravity will pull the water down leaving 2 meters worth of hard vacuum as it fills up the 10-meter outer pipe. Now how do we get the fresh water out? We set up another vacuum pipe connect them with a condenser coil cooled with sea water and shaded from the sun taking the vaporized water from Vac A to Vac B where being a lower temp condenses to be removed at the bottom valve of Vac B. To make the system flow continuously add a spray nozzle to the top of Vac A spraying in seawater warmed by the sun after cooling the condenser coil of Vac B the spray increase the surface area making instant steam in Vac A creating fresh water as fast as in can condense in Vac B.
something people used to do in the 16th century in long shipping missions and military interventions in the middle east. the problem is you can't boil and expect to have a functional metal with so much heat used unless we talk a nuclear powered kind of metal sheet
if you put a desalination membrain on both sides of a 50 gal drum, and a vent pipe , and a bottom drain pipe that ran down 100ft or more to the ocean floor . would the drum fill with water. would capalary type action get it started leaking
Melvin Bartoo You would need togo 2,276 ft deep to generate 1000psi of water pressure.. It might work with less psi. but your drum and piping would need to hold that pressure
It is possible to vastly reduce the amount of water families use, without damaging life-style or agriculture. Older plumbing toilets use vast amounts of water. It is completely unnecessary. Composting toilets use virtually none. Decorative grass is unnecessary, except for sports. Maintaining ordinary grass lawns wastes massive amounts of water. Modern appliances like up to date dishwashers use very little water compared to older models. You tend to use more water because you just don't think about your use. Excess water use has a multiplier effect. It's a matter of making sure you have no leaks and turning off the water when not necessary. Most families could reduce their water use by up to 30% with no diminution of life-style or even inconvenience. This leaves more for agriculture, but they also waste water. It's a matter of thinking about your water use. Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
Desalination is as cheap as the energy you put in it.The initial installation costs are as low as modern power plants.The installation costs A lot but production is so large that per m3 those costs are almost zero.
This video is pretty misleading. They say the cost gap between desalination and traditional is shrinking, but they never say what it is, on average. So yes, it is more expensive. They say energy use is going down, but they never say what the difference in energy use is. So I guess it must use a lot more energy. And no matter where the outlet pipes are placed, they are still increasing the salt concentration in the ocean, which is a bad thing. I'm not saying desalination is bad, but at least be honest about its weaknesses.
Increasing salt concentration in ocean is not an issue as the ocean are so large. And all fresh water eventually ends up in a river flowing to an ocean or evaporating and forming clouds that rain on oceans. The only problem is that increased salt concentrations (when not mixed well) can be a local problem.
Shane, I share your view. Desalination can be very much the best way to produce potable water in some places, but it is generally much more expensive. The example cited, of its being cheaper to desalinate water in Southern California than to pump it from the north is kind of a partial truth. If it were just that simple, then they wouldn't continue to pump water from the north. But they do, and have apparently built desalination capacity only because there is a growing demand for water, but a drought has caused the amount of water that can be pumped to decrease. They are investing in desalination because other sources are failing, even though they are cheaper.
Shane, my home has a desalinization system for all our water needs. I pay about 10% more for water than I did when on regular water system in a big city in the US.
It can be difficult to compare prices directly. You have to factor in subsidies and energy prices and such things. Communities further in land also have to add cost of transportation.
Dear IDA (International Desalination Association), You are making a false claim that you are an International Association while you are insisting to support only Reverse Osmosis as the only available process for saline water desalination. Next you are insisting to represent awful tardiness supporting such an obsolete process 50 years old now. If you just look around you, you will find that most of the countries of the world are having rivers, and the peoples are drinking rivers water after a simple decantation. Rivers waters are the result of Room Temperature Evaporation from the surface of every sea, ocean, lake,.. which form clouds, next clouds move towards lands forming rain water, which is converted into rivers. Room Temperature Evaporation is the only physical phenomenon allowing the separation of pure water vapor from saline water without the need of ANY SUPPLY OF EXTERNAL ENERGY, the energy needed for water evaporation is supplied by the bulk of saline water cooling it. Not only that Reverse Osmosis is consuming a huge lot of unnecessary energy, you are misleading your audience to very expensive equipment of high pressure pumps and expensive membranes which need frequent exchanges. Probably you might be interested to avoid these troubles if you check our website www.naturalseawaterdesalination.com to find out more about Room Temperature Evaporation.
Australia is moving way ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to energy, and other technology. Good for them :) But bad for the rest dragging their feet, and sucking on oil pipes still.
I always mention that nuclear waste doesn't exist.It's potential fuel that can't be economically used.Every radioactive atom is energy waiting to be harvested.We just need to build better non weapons grade reactors,Canada does pretty well and India is going strong on the molten salt reactor,if that works all the existing "nuke waste" is history.
I wish they would figure out a way to do that, Picobyte, and in some ways I am guessing they already can. But we all know big oil is not going to let that happen.
Canada does very well and India also pushes on the research,nothing to do with oil. It just takes time,they don't want to get public opinion against them. So everything must be tested to the bone.
propaganda, as its best , desalination still has to prove that it can make a dent in out thirst, it is still a far fetched goal, to say the least....desalination brings more problem than it solve so far.
I would be more comfortable with this video if I didn't get the feeling every word is scrip[ted to infomercial perfection, and read with all the sincerity of a Japanese robot.
HEOFF a Canadian company is doing great job for many years. Thanks.
Good job getting the same narrator as every OSHA Safety video ever.
The salt could be used in molten salt storage batteries heated by sun concentrators. Also modern salt batteries are being developed.
Who would have thought that desalination plants would use F1 technology.
Why not offer a billion dollar prize to anyone who can find a method of desalination of sea water as cost effective as using the watershed?
Why Tom? It is only about 10% more expensive now.
Desal is fine for coastal areas, but if you add the cost of transporting long distance, then price increases sharply. Good thing about the S.F. Bay area is brackish SF bay.
No Indio, large piping systems for sea water movement is SUPER cheap.
But some of the same concepts can leverage into brackish water supplies elsewhere, and perhaps outputs from sewage treatement and storm sewer systems as well - and that water is local to the place it would be used...
Gravity induced vacuum distillation will do what you want faster and cheaper. Water boils in a vacuum at room temperatures 75 degrees F . You can make a cheap vacuum system capable of a hard vacuum of 30 inches of mercury with piping in a vertical direction 12 meters inside an open topped pipe length 10 meters. The inside pipe has valves at the top and bottom, the inside pipe is filled with seawater to the top then close top valve and open the bottom valve gravity will pull the water down leaving 2 meters worth of hard vacuum as it fills up the 10-meter outer pipe.
Now how do we get the fresh water out? We set up another vacuum pipe connect them with a condenser coil cooled with sea water and shaded from the sun taking the vaporized water from Vac A to Vac B where being a lower temp condenses to be removed at the bottom valve of Vac B. To make the system flow continuously add a spray nozzle to the top of Vac A spraying in seawater warmed by the sun after cooling the condenser coil of Vac B the spray increase the surface area making instant steam in Vac A creating fresh water as fast as in can condense in Vac B.
something people used to do in the 16th century in long shipping missions and military interventions in the middle east. the problem is you can't boil and expect to have a functional metal with so much heat used unless we talk a nuclear powered kind of metal sheet
Brine could be processed by thermal desalination using sunlight or otherwise to extract mpre water and recrystalisse the remanant to produce salts
if you put a desalination membrain on both sides of a 50 gal drum, and a vent pipe , and a bottom drain pipe that ran down 100ft or more to the ocean floor . would the drum fill with water. would capalary type action get it started leaking
Melvin Bartoo Those membranes use around 1000 psi.
Melvin Bartoo You would need togo 2,276 ft deep to generate 1000psi of water pressure.. It might work with less psi. but your drum and piping would need to hold that pressure
It is possible to vastly reduce the amount of water families use, without damaging life-style or agriculture. Older plumbing toilets use vast amounts of water. It is completely unnecessary. Composting toilets use virtually none. Decorative grass is unnecessary, except for sports. Maintaining ordinary grass lawns wastes massive amounts of water. Modern appliances like up to date dishwashers use very little water compared to older models.
You tend to use more water because you just don't think about your use. Excess water use has a multiplier effect. It's a matter of making sure you have no leaks and turning off the water when not necessary. Most families could reduce their water use by up to 30% with no diminution of life-style or even inconvenience.
This leaves more for agriculture, but they also waste water.
It's a matter of thinking about your water use.
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
Desalination is as cheap as the energy you put in it.The initial installation costs are as low as modern power plants.The installation costs A lot but production is so large that per m3 those costs are almost zero.
@jake mr honest ITER is not a renewable source of energy.
Brine a byproduct could be used as fuel h2and o2produces by hydrolysis
what is "forward osmosis"?
thank you
so you spend more money to build a desal plant and then pipe it into the old leaking system.
Too much of a commercial advertisement video
This video is pretty misleading. They say the cost gap between desalination and traditional is shrinking, but they never say what it is, on average. So yes, it is more expensive. They say energy use is going down, but they never say what the difference in energy use is. So I guess it must use a lot more energy. And no matter where the outlet pipes are placed, they are still increasing the salt concentration in the ocean, which is a bad thing. I'm not saying desalination is bad, but at least be honest about its weaknesses.
Increasing salt concentration in ocean is not an issue as the ocean are so large. And all fresh water eventually ends up in a river flowing to an ocean or evaporating and forming clouds that rain on oceans. The only problem is that increased salt concentrations (when not mixed well) can be a local problem.
Shane, I share your view. Desalination can be very much the best way to produce potable water in some places, but it is generally much more expensive. The example cited, of its being cheaper to desalinate water in Southern California than to pump it from the north is kind of a partial truth. If it were just that simple, then they wouldn't continue to pump water from the north. But they do, and have apparently built desalination capacity only because there is a growing demand for water, but a drought has caused the amount of water that can be pumped to decrease. They are investing in desalination because other sources are failing, even though they are cheaper.
Shane, my home has a desalinization system for all our water needs. I pay about 10% more for water than I did when on regular water system in a big city in the US.
It can be difficult to compare prices directly. You have to factor in subsidies and energy prices and such things. Communities further in land also have to add cost of transportation.
Oh, I don't know, look at the beginning of this video and it seems condoms and pills and "staying off her her" could solve a lot of problems.
0:46
Dear IDA (International Desalination Association), You are making a false claim that you are an International Association while you are insisting to support only Reverse Osmosis as the only available process for saline water desalination. Next you are insisting to represent awful tardiness supporting such an obsolete process 50 years old now. If you just look around you, you will find that most of the countries of the world are having rivers, and the peoples are drinking rivers water after a simple decantation. Rivers waters are the result of Room Temperature Evaporation from the surface of every sea, ocean, lake,.. which form clouds, next clouds move towards lands forming rain water, which is converted into rivers.
Room Temperature Evaporation is the only physical phenomenon allowing the separation of pure water vapor from saline water without the need of ANY SUPPLY OF EXTERNAL ENERGY, the energy needed for water evaporation is supplied by the bulk of saline water cooling it.
Not only that Reverse Osmosis is consuming a huge lot of unnecessary energy, you are misleading your audience to very expensive equipment of high pressure pumps and expensive membranes which need frequent exchanges. Probably you might be interested to avoid these troubles if you check our website www.naturalseawaterdesalination.com to find out more about Room Temperature Evaporation.
Go and make your own facility using that technology. The problem is how much water flow do you expect to get?
Australia is moving way ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to energy, and other technology. Good for them :) But bad for the rest dragging their feet, and sucking on oil pipes still.
I always mention that nuclear waste doesn't exist.It's potential fuel that can't be economically used.Every radioactive atom is energy waiting to be harvested.We just need to build better non weapons grade reactors,Canada does pretty well and India is going strong on the molten salt reactor,if that works all the existing "nuke waste" is history.
I wish they would figure out a way to do that, Picobyte, and in some ways I am guessing they already can. But we all know big oil is not going to let that happen.
Canada does very well and India also pushes on the research,nothing to do with oil. It just takes time,they don't want to get public opinion against them. So everything must be tested to the bone.
Redstorm, we know no such thing. That "big oil" controls countries and economies is a foolish old wives' tale.
NO radstorm, Australia is WAY behind. They don;t even have nuc power yet.
sussy embargo
somewhat of a propaganda whitewash about the non polluting nature of this industry.
propaganda, as its best , desalination still has to prove that it can make a dent in out thirst, it is still a far fetched goal, to say the least....desalination brings more problem than it solve so far.