I thought I had a good understanding of how to do this procedure of squaring up a piece correctly on my old Bridgeport, but obviously I was very wrong. I did not know the terminology "tertiary datum" nor did I have the correct sequence of sides in order. The use of brass pins and and the correct use of them is a revelation to me! Thank you very much Mr L'Ecuyer you have given me hope that maybe someday I will be able to build an accurate part! I have a lot to learn, please keep up the great video's! From my book I found (Tertiary Datum) is:" The third plane of the 3-2-1 method determined by a single point. This plane must be perpendicular to both the primary and secondary planes and is usually the smallest surface of the work-piece." NOW I get it!
Had to give you a big thank you. I've been an electrician for thirty years but I'm getting in to machining now for hobby and also at work and your method of teaching is just what I needed. Thanks again and I did subscribe. Enough chit chat. Next lesson.
Marc you do a great job teaching fundamentals. i lot of us never went thru a formal machinist course and depend on people like you to explain the basics. thank you
Marc, what a fantastic video, it seems like others I am new to machining since retiring and as I live in a rather remote area of Australia where guidance/tutoring/teaching are not available your concise, well-explained basic principles were a breath of fresh air and very empowering. I will be looking for more of your stuff now so thank you so much for sharing your skill and knowledge, awesome effort
Thanks for great Teaching series. Not just this video but all. I have only seen 2 or 3 so far, very well presented. Good methods, good focus on precision and safety. I know these videos take a huge effort to produce thank you for passing your knowledge and experience to the next generation. :)
Hi Marc thank you for all your help I have a mini mill and lathe and trying to learn all this info. My 13 year old wanted to learn how to machine parts.. So I got these machines and it helps keeping him off his X BOX thank GOD
Hi Peter! Thanks for the nice comment, it is great to know that the videos are helping. At thirteen supervision is required and make sure to watch my safety videos part 1, part 2 and eventually 3 when I get around to producing it. You can find all of my videos n my free website THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM Marc
Thanks for the great videos, I hope that you have videos on threading on a lathe and counter boring on the mill. Looking forward to watching the rest of your videos.
I do have a threading on the lathe video, and I do cover counter boring but on the drill press in the 1-2-3 bloc project videos. You can see all my videos on my webpage THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM its all free and always will be. Thanks for watching! Marc L'Ecuyer
What a great video, Marc. Besides the excellent techniques on squaring, there is also a lot of useful information on work holding. As a novice machinist, I would have never thought of using the round brass stock placed in that very strategic manner to distribute the force of the vise jaws on the work. Thank you very much for posting this video. I'm subscribed to your channel too, so looking forward to other similar, fine videos. You're anything but a lazy machinist, however. You obviously take great care with your work.
Thanks Marc, there is always something that I learn in your videos, I thought I knew how to square up a block. The notching technique is new to me, simple and great! Regards, Matthew
Thanks for the video. After viewing it, I am wondering why you used only one parallel at about 28:06 in the video. Could you have used two? is there a reason why only one is used? if the part and round stock were of different sizes, could you do the squaring up without using the parallels for support? All the best to you from Hamilton, Ontario.
HI Marc recently discovered your channel and have recommended to my apprentices that they have a look because what they are teaching in school now (or should say not teaching ) comes up short .Really liked your stuff on bench work. AS for squaring how i was taught 30 some yrs ago is the same for the primary and secondary sides but i was taught to side mill the tertiary as it is much quicker when doing many pieces. Not saying you are wrong just that i was shown a different method . By the way i was born in Ottawa and am in Toronto now.
Regarding the pins used to distribute the vice pressure: Does the material or dimensions matter, as long as they're softer that your workpiece and don't interfere with the cutter? Do they have to be trued? Could you use wooden dowels for very soft metal? Thanks! ✌️😎
I'm a newbie to machining and am really learning a lot from your videos, Thanks. I have a question about the squaring of the tertiary surfaces. Could you have placed the primary surface down on 2 parallels, clamping on the secondary surfaces and then used an end mill to square the tertiary surfaces by using the Y axis? Thank you.
Jim Colemam You most certainly can, and you can see this in the part 2 video of the tap block project that I uploaded last week ( th-cam.com/video/CDRcgf1uP1Q/w-d-xo.html ) and in the part 3 video that I am planning on uploading tomorrow. The tap blocks have very small tertiary surfaces so I was not worried about tool deflection, the 1-2-3 bloc however has a much larger tertiary surface so I opted for the notching and face milling technique. It is however good to remember that for the second tertiary surface (especially when several blocs are being produced) surface milling is a much faster way of maintaining an accurate dimension since once the height of the tool is set, all the other blocs can be cut without adjustment. I hope this explanation makes sense, if not get back to me and I will try again. Thanks for a great question and for watching my videos, Marc L'Ecuyer
Great stuff, very good teaching, thank you for taking the time to upload these. ps a tiny niggle at about 3min 20sec you said eight surfaces, I even went away and counted a block lol I made it six
+binness Howdy! Either its a magic block or you are right. There is only six surfaces, so you are right and I will call the error a senior moment. Thanks for signaling the problem I will insert a note on the video. Marc
HELP! what attachment is it you are using and if I have a chuck with a 5/8" arbor what can I use to replicate this process? currently I am using a 1/2 arbor adaptor with a 1/4 shank & I sized washers to fit in the hole of a flared diamond cup wheel.
NeptuneKnives Hi NeptuneKnives, it would be much easier for me to know what you are trying to do if you could send me a few pictures of the tools and arbors and a description of what you want to do. E-mail to thatlazymachinist@gmail.com thanks for watching, Marc L'Ecuyer
Great teachings. I really enjoy all of your videos. Thank you. Very helpful, especially for new machinists like myself. Nice finish. What size are the brass cylinders and is the diameter relative to the stock being squared? Thanks.
again: clear and systematic explanations - thank you! Would you consider using soft (e.g. aluminium) auxilliary "jaws" between the work and the vise jars acceptable instead of the brass cylinders?
I would avoid soft aluminium, as I would avoid very soft brass. Half hard brass, or any machining grade aluminium (2024-T6, 6061T6 ...) will do fine. If you are not sure about your brass or aluminium, drill a hole in it. If it produces crisp clean chips it will do fine. If you get longs chips (adherent type) that want to stick to your tool and that don't look nice and shiny, you probably have soft brass or soft (series 1000) aluminium. Since these pins are used mainly to hold rough parts, cold rolled mild steel works well also. Marc L'Ecuyer P.S. Brass is a lot more expensive than mild steel, the main reason that I am using it in this video is that I had a lot of pieces left over from the hammer project. I shouldn't admit to things like that but what the heck, its a form of recycling.
Thanks for the video! Quick question, if the size of the vice allows, would it be ok to machine the tertiary surfaces by positioning the secondary surface against the botton of the vice, and the primary surfaces in the jaws, with the tertiary surfaces protruding from the vice?
Hi Daniel, it is possible but remember that when side milling with an end mill, tool deflection is a real problem. If your tertiary does not require a very long tool it will probably be fine, also remember to check your milling head for proper alignment. I hope this helps and thanks for watching my videos, Marc L'Ecuyer
Very good! As an amateur I've learned I could be doing this smarter! I don't understand one thing though - when you squared the 2nd tertiary surface, why did you use a parallel on the bottom instead of the bottom of the vice?
gheumann Hi gheumann! Great question, reducing the amount of contact between the bloc and the vise bottom reduces the risk of error due to dirt or chips or burrs or bumps. None of these should be present, but it is a good practice to suppose that they might be there. Also, it is very difficult to asses whether the part is sitting properly on the bottom of the vice. The parallel will tell you how the part is sitting, and that is important. Also I will add that since the part is thinner than the height of contact between the part and the fixed jaw, only one parallel is required in this situation. If no parallels are available, paper is often used. One small piece under each end of the part will be a good indication that your part is sitting on the bottom of the vice. Thanks for a great question and thanks for watching my videos, it is appreciated. Marc L'Ecuyer
THATLAZYMACHINIST Makes sense. Why then, did you NOT use a parallel for the 2nd side of the secondary faces? Or perhaps you did and I missed it? Don't mean to belabor the point. I just "discovered you today and you are an excellent teacher. I have watched several of your vids and I'm planning to go back and watch just about all of them. FYI I'm a hobbyist machinist who makes a living making (get this!) products for harmonica players. I own two lathes and two milling machines. You can see my work at www.blowsmeaway.com - the Custom Wood Mics and the Ultimate Series mics are the most machine-intensive...... THANK YOU!
This operation is only to get the edge square to the primary face so it does not need any parallels or tapping down at this stage, unless it is smaller than the height of the vice jaw.
That was an excellent demonstration of the squaring-up process, as it is taught in trade schools. I'm a toolmaker and have squared up thousands of blocks. I've abandoned that method years ago. I've found it is better to get 2 sides parallel first. I've found that if I put the 1st side against the fixed jaw, mill a side, flip it over, you'll never get the part to seat tight on parallels. If both parallels aren't tight, the top and bottom surface won't come out parallel.
Great demonstration as usual. I'm still unclear why you didn't clean the scale off the reference surface before cutting it. I understand that you cleaned the other primary so it would sit flatter but I thought you would have removed the scale for the benefit of the cutter. Could you clarify?
Marc, Have you ever seen the method where the cylinder is placed horizontally and not vertically? This is the way that my textbook teaches. For machining the first primary: They show a piece of rod between a secondary surface and the movable jaw placed horizontally and extending the length of the part; and then just the other secondary surface flat against the fixed jaw. The other operations are similar to your method, but the rod is always placed horizontally extending the length of the surface of the part. What do you think?
Antoni K Hi j and Antoni, I have also seen books that use the horizontal rod method. I thinks that it would be fine as long as the two secondary surfaces are quite parallel. If they are not, or if they are very rough as is the case with the hot rolled steel that I use in the example, I find that it is best to use three cylinders place vertically as in the example to form as large a triangle as possible. This is not the strongest way to hold the part, but it is the most stable (other than using three balls). make sure you use mild steel or better even brass since a very hard pins can become rollers. Marc
For the 5th surface ( end ) simply hold the 4 machined faces between two vee blocks to square the 5th side to the first 4. No messing about with dial indicators & perfect squareness. Is there really any need for all those brass cylinders just for the first light skim cut? Just put it in the centre of the vice on some parallels - don't tap it down & take a skim cut. I've used rods to push workpieces onto the fixed jaw but never seen them vertically. They are usually longer than the workpiece & sit horizontally so the workpiece can pivot to sit flat against the fixed jaw with full length contact on the rod.
Hi!Thanks for many educational videos for an MSC in electronics but newbe as a machinist. Nice musik at the beginning of Your video.Your method squaring that block, using the brass cylinders, is a really a good tip for me, often handling rough bodies.My current project is to square up a U-formed piece of steel being some 3 inch long, 4 inches wide and 2 inches high . It was left ower when a longer piece was cut. My idea was to square it up and use it as an angle block in my mini mill.The difficulty is that I don't have a vise large enough to hold it. It has to be clamped to the XY-table. All sides ar rosty except for the machine cut, bandsaw, side and that is doubtfully square to the base, the bottom of the U. How would You handle such a bastard piece of steel?
Hi Stephan! I don't know if i can help "U" (get it? u-formed piece) but a few pictures or the part and the mill would really help me provide an answer. Marc
Another video to bookmark as the go-to reference on this machine operation. As a bit of video editing magic, I'll be pondering how you got your voiceover done while muting your voice in the video but still getting the sounds of hammers and machine runs. Eh?
Some of the scenes were filmed 4 years ago, some were filmed on Monday, and the voice over for the portions from 4 years ago (the video was in French originally) was done on my computer yesterday. The noise of the machine and hammers and what not on the voice overs come from the original French video, cut and paste (you can see the original French video on my website THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM). I have no training in video making and am learning as I go, and I must admit that I am having a blast doing it. My newer videos (little quickies) are done in my shop and the sound is a lot better, the room is smaller, there aren't any other people working at the same time, and I now film everything in English and in French so no voice overs. Thanks for watching, it is very appreciated. Marc L'Ecuyer P.S. English is not my forte so please excuse all the mistakes.
Thanks for taking the time to post this helpful information. That said, omg man, I couldn't keep my eyes open. You put people to sleep with that voice! I really enjoy the content when my eyes are open, I don't want to be mean, constructive criticism, really....
+Aku - Hi Aku, it's a gift! One day one of my fellow teachers told me that his last class had gone poorly since the group was quite agitated. Knowing that I was going to teach the same group right after lunch, I told him to come and see what they looked like after the first half hour of my course. I started out with a constant monotone voice and a good pace and slowed down the rhythm progressively while lowering the volume at the same time. It was pure gold! Heads were nodding, eyes were closing, the class was suffering, it was payback time. My co-worker was amazed, all I told him was that it was a gift of mine. I never had attendance problems, my classes were always full. One student summed it up one day "Sir, I love your class. I learn a lot and it is always so relaxing". Thanks for a great comment, thanks for reminding me such nice memories and thanks for watching! And as I often told my students, my job is to deliver the best course that I can while keeping things as simple and understandable as possible and YOUR JOB IS TO STAY AWAKE!!! Marc
I'll give my unsolicited opinion: not possible. The original video was likely recorded with the built-in camera mic that picked up the reverberation of the large machine room. The other speech you hear is a voice over done separately. The "echo" voice is not too bad, is it? Not as comfortable to listen to as the voice-over but perfectly intelligible. Also, noticed anything else on this video? Like the awesome machining and teachings perhaps? :-)
JRoque250 Your teaching of machining is absolutely well explained to the point where my being totally inexperienced in milling work, appreciates and understand s every step you show us and the value of the required set ups. I look forward to all your videos and I am learning a lot from you. I want to apologize for my comment on the mic problem and I know you will remedy it. I have a hearing problem so I was just trying to help.......Sorry If I insulted you.
resmed Don't worry Resmed, I myself am suffering from hearing loss (a lifetime in noisy shops I guess!) and I find that it is more and more difficult to separate the good from the bad noises. Especially the low frequencies. My newer videos (little quickies) are done in my shop and the sound is a lot better, the room is smaller, there aren't any other people working at the same time, and I now film everything in English and in French so no voice overs. I still have five or six French videos to translate, after those are done all the others should have much improved sound. I do this for fun and I am having a blast, and in many ways it is due to people such as yourself who take the time to watch and appreciate these videos. I am fluently bilingual, that means that I massacre both English and French so please excuse all the mistakes. Marc L'Ecuyer
that TOS fnk is an awesome mill. I have one with a column extention that one looks tiny compared to mine. I also have it in kaki green with a big red 'maded by the commies' star on it :) I guess that didn't sell so well overseas
Interesting video BUT the squaring of the ends in this video is no longer a National Machinist standard. N.I.M.S. standard has the block ends extending from the side of the vice jaws and having the end mill extend just below the bottom of the block.
If this is an example of their "standards", they are pretty worthless. Now I remember them. They are one of those want to be certification organizations. In 25 years of working in aerospace, medical, oilfield, and automotive machining, I have never even heard it mentioned. Another one of those "give me money and I will tell you how to do your work" places. Worthless.
This video is NOT a standard set up! "I" do NOT like this method and it is NOT a N.I.M.S. standard either... I think you misunderstood my original comment... All is good :)
+MrPESensation Hi guys (MrPeSensation and ardvarkkkk1), if you like what I do, great! If you don't that's OK too! These methods (I present two in this video) have always worked for me but that doesn't mean that other methods aren't valid. There are many methods for squaring up blocs and I encourage everyone to explore them all since knowledge increases peoples ability to make proper decisions depending on the particularities of the part being machined. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to sound in, Marc.
Instead of 3 point contact, throw some aluminum foil in it, clamp it halfway up longways up. Face the sawed end, then kiss around the perimeter to required size. This leaves you with a half squared block length wise with one end finished completely. Flip it over, now as long as your vise is trammed the two secondary machines sides (1st op) will be held parallel. Face the other end, then go around the perimeter. Way easier than this. Lol
When u say the brass cylinders distribute the force evenly across the part that's literally the opposite of what's happening , they are actually focusing the force into a single point ..... just sayin
Best instruction on TH-cam, followed only by this old Tony’s - merci Marc
Just by watching your videos you can turn an aprendice into a skilled machinist
Thank you for you video, Greetings from Mexico to you, my compadre!
this channel is a treasure 😁👍👌👋
I thought I had a good understanding of how to do this procedure of squaring up a piece correctly on my old Bridgeport, but obviously I was very wrong. I did not know the terminology "tertiary datum" nor did I have the correct sequence of sides in order. The use of brass pins and and the correct use of them is a revelation to me! Thank you very much Mr L'Ecuyer you have given me hope that maybe someday I will be able to build an accurate part! I have a lot to learn, please keep up the great video's! From my book I found (Tertiary Datum) is:" The third plane of the 3-2-1 method determined by a single point. This plane must be perpendicular to both the primary and secondary planes and is usually the smallest surface of the work-piece." NOW I get it!
Had to give you a big thank you. I've been an electrician for thirty years but I'm getting in to machining now for hobby and also at work and your method of teaching is just what I needed. Thanks again and I did subscribe. Enough chit chat. Next lesson.
Thanks Tony! Compliments are always welcome, Marc
Do you also need to square the head to the table before any machining?
Yes or it wont cut square
Marc you do a great job teaching fundamentals. i lot of us never went thru a formal machinist course and depend on people like you to explain the basics. thank you
Marc,
Thanks for the very clear and informative video.
All the best, Chuck.
What a brilliant tutorial. Thank you for producing a very informative video.
Thanks Marc, I will be making 3 brass pins later on this morning.
Marc, what a fantastic video, it seems like others I am new to machining since retiring and as I live in a rather remote area of Australia where guidance/tutoring/teaching are not available your concise, well-explained basic principles were a breath of fresh air and very empowering. I will be looking for more of your stuff now so thank you so much for sharing your skill and knowledge, awesome effort
Thanks for great Teaching series. Not just this video but all. I have only seen 2 or 3 so far, very well presented. Good methods, good focus on precision and safety. I know these videos take a huge effort to produce thank you for passing your knowledge and experience to the next generation. :)
Another excellent video. I've never seen the second squaring method, will come in handy. Thanks
Hi Marc thank you for all your help I have a mini mill and lathe and trying to learn all this info. My 13 year old wanted to learn how to machine parts.. So I got these machines and it helps keeping him off his X BOX thank GOD
Hi Peter! Thanks for the nice comment, it is great to know that the videos are helping. At thirteen supervision is required and make sure to watch my safety videos part 1, part 2 and eventually 3 when I get around to producing it. You can find all of my videos n my free website THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM Marc
Thanks for the great videos, I hope that you have videos on threading on a lathe and counter boring on the mill. Looking forward to watching the rest of your videos.
I do have a threading on the lathe video, and I do cover counter boring but on the drill press in the 1-2-3 bloc project videos. You can see all my videos on my webpage THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM its all free and always will be. Thanks for watching! Marc L'Ecuyer
What a great video, Marc. Besides the excellent techniques on squaring, there is also a lot of useful information on work holding. As a novice machinist, I would have never thought of using the round brass stock placed in that very strategic manner to distribute the force of the vise jaws on the work. Thank you very much for posting this video. I'm subscribed to your channel too, so looking forward to other similar, fine videos.
You're anything but a lazy machinist, however. You obviously take great care with your work.
Very good explaine Sir,,
Again, again a well thought out, complete and useful video program. The notching technique is new to me. Thank you again, again.
this was quite helpful to me, fellow canuck. thank you
Thanks Marc, there is always something that I learn in your videos, I thought I knew how to square up a block. The notching technique is new to me, simple and great! Regards, Matthew
Dear Marc, thank you very much
Lesson: 73
Thanks for the video. After viewing it, I am wondering why you used only one parallel at about 28:06 in the video. Could you have used two? is there a reason why only one is used? if the part and round stock were of different sizes, could you do the squaring up without using the parallels for support?
All the best to you from Hamilton, Ontario.
Great video sir, very helpful just a quick question on the first piece why not do the second primary surface after you got the 2 secondary faces??
Great vids dude, keep them coming.
HI Marc recently discovered your channel and have recommended to my apprentices that they have a look because what they are teaching in school now (or should say not teaching ) comes up short .Really liked your stuff on bench work. AS for squaring how i was taught 30 some yrs ago is the same for the primary and secondary sides but i was taught to side mill the tertiary as it is much quicker when doing many pieces. Not saying you are wrong just that i was shown a different method . By the way i was born in Ottawa and am in Toronto now.
Hi Brian and thanks for watching, Marc L'Ecuyer (did you go to school in Ottawa?)
Regarding the pins used to distribute the vice pressure:
Does the material or dimensions matter, as long as they're softer that your workpiece and don't interfere with the cutter? Do they have to be trued?
Could you use wooden dowels for very soft metal? Thanks! ✌️😎
Wish I had you at my Community College.
New subscriber and love your style of explanation
Very useful. Unless I am mistaken the shell mill did not have a full complement of cutters. An advanced technique ?
Tom (Australia)
Well done
Excellent teaching & content. The audio could use some adjustment- however, does not take away.
I'm a newbie to machining and am really learning a lot from your videos, Thanks. I have a question about the squaring of the tertiary surfaces. Could you have placed the primary surface down on 2 parallels, clamping on the secondary surfaces and then used an end mill to square the tertiary surfaces by using the Y axis? Thank you.
Jim Colemam You most certainly can, and you can see this in the part 2 video of the tap block project that I uploaded last week ( th-cam.com/video/CDRcgf1uP1Q/w-d-xo.html ) and in the part 3 video that I am planning on uploading tomorrow. The tap blocks have very small tertiary surfaces so I was not worried about tool deflection, the 1-2-3 bloc however has a much larger tertiary surface so I opted for the notching and face milling technique. It is however good to remember that for the second tertiary surface (especially when several blocs are being produced) surface milling is a much faster way of maintaining an accurate dimension since once the height of the tool is set, all the other blocs can be cut without adjustment. I hope this explanation makes sense, if not get back to me and I will try again. Thanks for a great question and for watching my videos, Marc L'Ecuyer
Great stuff, very good teaching, thank you for taking the time to upload these. ps a tiny niggle at about 3min 20sec you said eight surfaces, I even went away and counted a block lol I made it six
+binness Howdy! Either its a magic block or you are right. There is only six surfaces, so you are right and I will call the error a senior moment. Thanks for signaling the problem I will insert a note on the video. Marc
Question; when squaring the first tertiary surface you used a dead blow hammer. Wouldn't a dead blow risk moving the part too much?
HELP! what attachment is it you are using and if I have a chuck with a 5/8" arbor what can I use to replicate this process? currently I am using a 1/2 arbor adaptor with a 1/4 shank & I sized washers to fit in the hole of a flared diamond cup wheel.
NeptuneKnives Hi NeptuneKnives, it would be much easier for me to know what you are trying to do if you could send me a few pictures of the tools and arbors and a description of what you want to do. E-mail to thatlazymachinist@gmail.com thanks for watching, Marc L'Ecuyer
THATLAZYMACHINIST yes Sir I will absolutely because this is difficult to find any info out there. I greatly appreciate this
Great teachings. I really enjoy all of your videos. Thank you. Very helpful, especially for new machinists like myself. Nice finish. What size are the brass cylinders and is the diameter relative to the stock being squared? Thanks.
again: clear and systematic explanations - thank you!
Would you consider using soft (e.g. aluminium) auxilliary "jaws" between the work and the vise jars acceptable instead of the brass cylinders?
I would avoid soft aluminium, as I would avoid very soft brass. Half hard brass, or any machining grade aluminium (2024-T6, 6061T6 ...) will do fine. If you are not sure about your brass or aluminium, drill a hole in it. If it produces crisp clean chips it will do fine. If you get longs chips (adherent type) that want to stick to your tool and that don't look nice and shiny, you probably have soft brass or soft (series 1000) aluminium. Since these pins are used mainly to hold rough parts, cold rolled mild steel works well also. Marc L'Ecuyer P.S. Brass is a lot more expensive than mild steel, the main reason that I am using it in this video is that I had a lot of pieces left over from the hammer project. I shouldn't admit to things like that but what the heck, its a form of recycling.
Great explanation!
Thank you for your detailed reply.
Greetings Harald
Excellent video thank you
Thanks for the video!
Quick question, if the size of the vice allows, would it be ok to machine the tertiary surfaces by positioning the secondary surface against the botton of the vice, and the primary surfaces in the jaws, with the tertiary surfaces protruding from the vice?
Hi Daniel, it is possible but remember that when side milling with an end mill, tool deflection is a real problem. If your tertiary does not require a very long tool it will probably be fine, also remember to check your milling head for proper alignment. I hope this helps and thanks for watching my videos, Marc L'Ecuyer
That makes perfect sense! Thanks again
Very good! As an amateur I've learned I could be doing this smarter! I don't understand one thing though - when you squared the 2nd tertiary surface, why did you use a parallel on the bottom instead of the bottom of the vice?
gheumann Hi gheumann! Great question, reducing the amount of contact between the bloc and the vise bottom reduces the risk of error due to dirt or chips or burrs or bumps. None of these should be present, but it is a good practice to suppose that they might be there. Also, it is very difficult to asses whether the part is sitting properly on the bottom of the vice. The parallel will tell you how the part is sitting, and that is important. Also I will add that since the part is thinner than the height of contact between the part and the fixed jaw, only one parallel is required in this situation. If no parallels are available, paper is often used. One small piece under each end of the part will be a good indication that your part is sitting on the bottom of the vice. Thanks for a great question and thanks for watching my videos, it is appreciated. Marc L'Ecuyer
THATLAZYMACHINIST Makes sense. Why then, did you NOT use a parallel for the 2nd side of the secondary faces? Or perhaps you did and I missed it? Don't mean to belabor the point. I just "discovered you today and you are an excellent teacher. I have watched several of your vids and I'm planning to go back and watch just about all of them. FYI I'm a hobbyist machinist who makes a living making (get this!) products for harmonica players. I own two lathes and two milling machines. You can see my work at www.blowsmeaway.com - the Custom Wood Mics and the Ultimate Series mics are the most machine-intensive...... THANK YOU!
+gheumann By using the parallel, the Z height from the previous cut just matched the notch height and let him start from there.
This operation is only to get the edge square to the primary face so it does not need any parallels or tapping down at this stage, unless it is smaller than the height of the vice jaw.
That was an excellent demonstration of the squaring-up process, as it is taught in trade schools. I'm a toolmaker and have squared up thousands of blocks. I've abandoned that method years ago. I've found it is better to get 2 sides parallel first. I've found that if I put the 1st side against the fixed jaw, mill a side, flip it over, you'll never get the part to seat tight on parallels. If both parallels aren't tight, the top and bottom surface won't come out parallel.
Great demonstration as usual. I'm still unclear why you didn't clean the scale off the reference surface before cutting it. I understand that you cleaned the other primary so it would sit flatter but I thought you would have removed the scale for the benefit of the cutter. Could you clarify?
Another great video is this part of your theory series you spoke of in a previous video?
Marc,
Have you ever seen the method where the cylinder is placed horizontally and not vertically? This is the way that my textbook teaches.
For machining the first primary:
They show a piece of rod between a secondary surface and the movable jaw placed horizontally and extending the length of the part; and then just the other secondary surface flat against the fixed jaw.
The other operations are similar to your method, but the rod is always placed horizontally extending the length of the surface of the part.
What do you think?
Yea so does mine. I like the way this guy uses too though.
Antoni K Hi j and Antoni, I have also seen books that use the horizontal rod method. I thinks that it would be fine as long as the two secondary surfaces are quite parallel. If they are not, or if they are very rough as is the case with the hot rolled steel that I use in the example, I find that it is best to use three cylinders place vertically as in the example to form as large a triangle as possible. This is not the strongest way to hold the part, but it is the most stable (other than using three balls). make sure you use mild steel or better even brass since a very hard pins can become rollers. Marc
Thank you another helpful lesson.
excellent instruction, thx!
For the 5th surface ( end ) simply hold the 4 machined faces between two vee blocks to square the 5th side to the first 4. No messing about with dial indicators & perfect squareness.
Is there really any need for all those brass cylinders just for the first light skim cut? Just put it in the centre of the vice on some parallels - don't tap it down & take a skim cut.
I've used rods to push workpieces onto the fixed jaw but never seen them vertically. They are usually longer than the workpiece & sit horizontally so the workpiece can pivot to sit flat against the fixed jaw with full length contact on the rod.
Hi!Thanks for many educational videos for an MSC in electronics but newbe as a machinist. Nice musik at the beginning of Your video.Your method squaring that block, using the brass cylinders, is a really a good tip for me, often handling rough bodies.My current project is to square up a U-formed piece of steel being some 3 inch long, 4 inches wide and 2 inches high . It was left ower when a longer piece was cut. My idea was to square it up and use it as an angle block in my mini mill.The difficulty is that I don't have a vise large enough to hold it. It has to be clamped to the XY-table. All sides ar rosty except for the machine cut, bandsaw, side and that is doubtfully square to the base, the bottom of the U. How would You handle such a bastard piece of steel?
Hi Stephan! I don't know if i can help "U" (get it? u-formed piece) but a few pictures or the part and the mill would really help me provide an answer. Marc
Thanks for Your answer. I made 2 photos of the block standing on the mill. How do I send them to You? I don't find any attach feature.
@@Stefan_Boerjesson Hi! My email is THATLAZYMACHINIST@GMAIL.COM or you can reach me through my website THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM
Very interesting. Thanks.
Another video to bookmark as the go-to reference on this machine operation.
As a bit of video editing magic, I'll be pondering how you got your voiceover done while muting your voice in the video but still getting the sounds of hammers and machine runs. Eh?
Some of the scenes were filmed 4 years ago, some were filmed on Monday, and the voice over for the portions from 4 years ago (the video was in French originally) was done on my computer yesterday. The noise of the machine and hammers and what not on the voice overs come from the original French video, cut and paste (you can see the original French video on my website THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM). I have no training in video making and am learning as I go, and I must admit that I am having a blast doing it. My newer videos (little quickies) are done in my shop and the sound is a lot better, the room is smaller, there aren't any other people working at the same time, and I now film everything in English and in French so no voice overs. Thanks for watching, it is very appreciated. Marc L'Ecuyer P.S. English is not my forte so please excuse all the mistakes.
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Thanks for taking the time to post this helpful information. That said, omg man, I couldn't keep my eyes open. You put people to sleep with that voice! I really enjoy the content when my eyes are open, I don't want to be mean, constructive criticism, really....
+Aku - Hi Aku, it's a gift! One day one of my fellow teachers told me that his last class had gone poorly since the group was quite agitated. Knowing that I was going to teach the same group right after lunch, I told him to come and see what they looked like after the first half hour of my course. I started out with a constant monotone voice and a good pace and slowed down the rhythm progressively while lowering the volume at the same time. It was pure gold! Heads were nodding, eyes were closing, the class was suffering, it was payback time. My co-worker was amazed, all I told him was that it was a gift of mine. I never had attendance problems, my classes were always full. One student summed it up one day "Sir, I love your class. I learn a lot and it is always so relaxing". Thanks for a great comment, thanks for reminding me such nice memories and thanks for watching! And as I often told my students, my job is to deliver the best course that I can while keeping things as simple and understandable as possible and YOUR JOB IS TO STAY AWAKE!!! Marc
thank you
As allways informative, And with the recycled footage eco friendly too.
Rather than use an old grind stone to remove scale (which I do not have), I pickle the parts overnight in a mild muriatic acid bath.
awesome
Is there some way you could get rid of that echo that your microphone is picking up? It is very annoying..
I'll give my unsolicited opinion: not possible. The original video was likely recorded with the built-in camera mic that picked up the reverberation of the large machine room. The other speech you hear is a voice over done separately.
The "echo" voice is not too bad, is it? Not as comfortable to listen to as the voice-over but perfectly intelligible. Also, noticed anything else on this video? Like the awesome machining and teachings perhaps? :-)
JRoque250
Your teaching of machining is absolutely well explained to the point where my being totally inexperienced in milling work, appreciates and understand s every step you show us and the value of the required set ups. I look forward to all your videos and I am learning a lot from you. I want to apologize for my comment on the mic problem and I know you will remedy it. I have a hearing problem so I was just trying to help.......Sorry If I insulted you.
resmed Don't worry Resmed, I myself am suffering from hearing loss (a lifetime in noisy shops I guess!) and I find that it is more and more difficult to separate the good from the bad noises. Especially the low frequencies. My newer videos (little quickies) are done in my shop and the sound is a lot better, the room is smaller, there aren't any other people working at the same time, and I now film everything in English and in French so no voice overs. I still have five or six French videos to translate, after those are done all the others should have much improved sound. I do this for fun and I am having a blast, and in many ways it is due to people such as yourself who take the time to watch and appreciate these videos. I am fluently bilingual, that means that I massacre both English and French so please excuse all the mistakes. Marc L'Ecuyer
that TOS fnk is an awesome mill. I have one with a column extention that one looks tiny compared to mine. I also have it in kaki green with a big red 'maded by the commies' star on it :)
I guess that didn't sell so well overseas
8 Surfaces??
Unless there are two mystery surfaces, there are only six! Lets call it a senior moment! Thanks for watching and for taking the time to write! Marc
Maybe it's a fractal hypercube.
Interesting video BUT the squaring of the ends in this video is no longer a National Machinist standard. N.I.M.S. standard has the block ends extending from the side of the vice jaws and having the end mill extend just below the bottom of the block.
+MrPESensation National Machinist Standard? What nation? I've never seen it done like that (as shown). Who would advocate such idiocy?
N.I.M.S. = National Institute for Metalworking skills... Look it up.
If this is an example of their "standards", they are pretty worthless. Now I remember them. They are one of those want to be certification organizations. In 25 years of working in aerospace, medical, oilfield, and automotive machining, I have never even heard it mentioned. Another one of those "give me money and I will tell you how to do your work" places. Worthless.
This video is NOT a standard set up! "I" do NOT like this method and it is NOT a N.I.M.S. standard either... I think you misunderstood my original comment... All is good :)
+MrPESensation Hi guys (MrPeSensation and ardvarkkkk1), if you like what I do, great! If you don't that's OK too! These methods (I present two in this video) have always worked for me but that doesn't mean that other methods aren't valid. There are many methods for squaring up blocs and I encourage everyone to explore them all since knowledge increases peoples ability to make proper decisions depending on the particularities of the part being machined. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to sound in, Marc.
Instead of 3 point contact, throw some aluminum foil in it, clamp it halfway up longways up.
Face the sawed end, then kiss around the perimeter to required size. This leaves you with a half squared block length wise with one end finished completely. Flip it over, now as long as your vise is trammed the two secondary machines sides (1st op) will be held parallel. Face the other end, then go around the perimeter. Way easier than this. Lol
you don't need the two on the solid jaw
When u say the brass cylinders distribute the force evenly across the part that's literally the opposite of what's happening , they are actually focusing the force into a single point ..... just sayin
Another great video is this part of your theory series you spoke of in a previous video?