Dry Pour Concrete VS Wet Pour Concrete - No One Else Is Telling You This
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2023
- #EverythingAboutConcrete #MikeDayConcrete
This is the information no one else is telling you about dry pour concrete vs wet pouring concrete.
I explain why concrete is designed to be mixed with water to achieve it's maximum strength. I explain why dry pouring concrete may not saturate all the cement particles and not give you proper hydration. Proper and even hydration is a key factor for strong concrete. I talk about how the water/cement ratio in concrete is important for strong, durable concrete.
How do you even measure water/cement ratio with dry pour concrete?
This video explains a lot and should make you think about if you want to do a dry pour concrete slab or not.
Just being honest and stating the facts from someone who's experienced at doing concrete for a living.
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I did dry pour over #57 stone to keep my dogs from digging under a gate. I broke up some old concrete trash, built a speed bump up to the gate, dumped 18 60 lbs bags over it, and swept it smooth with a broom. Surface finish is the mister setting on my hose. So far so good and I'll be filling more #57 stone anyway. I don't care if it cracks and breaks up. The point is that my dogs won't be digging through it. Dry pour saved a lot of back breaking work.
Exactly, and money, of course the contractors aren't going to like it.
Mike I do basically agree with what you are saying. I am a retired concrete contractor of about 35 years. You learn a lot in that timeframe. The problem that many are finding and which leads many to doing dry pours is cost and lack of finishing skills. I did do an experimental area and here's what happened. One technique that I used was to do a dry pour 2" thick. I used the dry pour as a hardened bed. I allowed it to cure for some time and then I capped it with a wet pour. I mixed my wet pour using Quickrete 60# bags and mixed in a 5 gallon bucket with a centrifugal mixer. This allowed me to work and finish in smaller quantities but I got a really good finish and product. I tested the dry pour before capping it and it was good for the purpose which I used it.
It turned out a really nice looking slab and the strength was debatably strong enough for my purposes. I haven't done a dry pour only and doubt that I will since I have the ability to pour and finish.
I think that what each individual needs to ask themselves is: Is it good enough for my needs. I have seen on TH-cam , folks who did a large dry pour slab and they seemed to be happy with it, but they weren't concrete finishers. I imagine that if it's good enough for them, it's good enough. Being a concrete guy myself, I prefer wet and properly mixed concrete but again, I have the ability to finish it adequately. I have also seen many jobs that concrete contractors have tuned out that went horribly wrong and a dry pour finish looked better...lol. Another option is that if someone wants an awesome looking finish but can't afford a contractor ( which CAN get pricey), you could do the dry pour and make certain to hydrate it as well as possible; screed it, roll it, wet it and if it turns out hard enough, you could tile it or lay pavers over it...a total DIY job but it could turn out to be pretty immaculate.
Well, that's my 2 cents worth. :) I really enjoy your videos...keep up the good work.
Thanks for the 5 gal bucket advice. That’s what I’ll be using to pour 16in deck piers. I’ve already got a big mixer I use for thin set.
Everyone knows wet is better than dry pour. But it's not about which one is the best/strongest when it comes to DIY people. DIY people need methods a single person can do, that's why they do dry pours. Not everyone can afford a crew and a cement truck to do a small slab.
you understand you can mix the bag of concrete in a bucket/wheelbarrow/whatever and it is the same as what they are doing in this video right? With dry pours (pouring the powder in then misting it) it does not guarantee that the water will get through everything leaving an inferior result. If you are just going for cosmetic then whatever, but it is far more likely that it will degrade far quicker than just doing some manual mixing beforehand.
@@MrTheJeoff Well yeah, but my point is that it's difficult to do a large wet pour by yourself. It'll all be drying at different times if you're not hauling ass.
@@MrTheJeoff I don't think you read or understood what Professor 8383 said about the even hydration he found during his tests. I've only done just one dry pour so far but it was so easy and produced such a great finish that I doubt if I'll ever go back to back-breaking wet pour for my DIY projects.
exactly right. You have to have multiple people doing even small jobs with wet concrete. This video is proof. But I've done a 15/30 slab by myself with dry. Of course wet is better and stronger, but thats not the point.
@@wtfyoumeaninvalid It's difficult to a a wet pour even on a smaller slab. Mixing 10 bags of Quikrete by yourself and getting it in the form in a decent amount of time before it starts to dry is a killer. I'm 71 and I can get a dry pour done by myself. As for cutting in and edge, I can do that in the dry mix before wetting it. It works every time. Also, I am miles from town and having a delivery of concrete from a mixer is not feasible so any work that has to be done it's just me. I noticed that in your video you had three muscular young people doing the work. I don't have that advantage!
I'm gonna do dry pour because I'm a woman on my own doing a diy job with no one to help me. I'm not able to mix all that concrete on my own. I've done manual mixes of small quantities before, but having to mix one portion at a time means that the mix before dries out and the mix before that dries out before I can finish the whole load of concrete. I don't have the physical strength to manually mix all that concrete and pour it myself. It works out best for me to dry pour as all I have to do is dump the contents of each bag direct on the surface and rake over /smooth out/screed etc.
Congratulations, FranSlam. The project in this video took 4 people at least 2 hours (8 manhours) of actual concrete work (after the framing) plus timing a truck to deliver the concrete plus timing the surface finish. At the end all the steel reinforcement was stuck on the bottom, because he neglected to put chairs or anything under it. Yes I saw him picking up the mesh during the pour, but if you flipped that slab upside down, you're going to see the steel mesh. Not only that but they have hundreds of manhours of experience with wet concrete. Not only that but the channel owner also sells courses that you could take in case you don't feel confident with wet concrete. Not only that but he's an affiliate selling all the tools that you will use ONLY ONE TIME in your life and then have to store somewhere in your already cramped garage. So this guy has a vested interest in selling you stuff. Whereas if you elect to dry pour, you don't need any of his stuff, nor do you really need to click up his TH-cam view count to watch any of his videos.
I fully agree with him that a dry pour is not going to give you that paste that you get with "normal" concrete work. And I agree that you will likely (very likely) not achieve 4,000, 5,000, or 6,000 psi strength with a dry pour; however, you are very likely to get a strong enough finish for you to walk on for many years.
What about surface finish? Sure the concrete industry currently has much experience with final surfacing. The dry pour community has mostly experience in planting posts in holes where surface finish was never a concern. Now that there is a growing interest in dry pouring slabs, there is also an interest in what can be done with the surface. The paint roller is one approach, but anything that rolls can be used to create a finish on the dry powder prior to wetting.
What about spalling? That is a good question that he brought up. It would be interesting to know how the projects in those example pictures were installed. How much water was used and how was it applied? Did they use mortar mix on top of the ready mix? What caused the spalling? Did someone drop something on it? Because concrete doesn't just fly out of the surface like that.
Do whatever works for you!!!!
@@MannyTwice I know. I was just feeling typee.
@@dchall8 lmaooo
I read it. This is not the first time that I have seen “professionals” seem to not understand the engineering aspects of concrete. The fact they they stomped all the steel into the dirt means they do not know what the steel is for, how to properly install it, or, that they just don’t care.
My friend, It is simple. I am 75 years old. I can not afford a professional. I also have to work very slowly. So, if I can do a slab slowly, get it all even and ready by working a little at a time, BEFORE adding water. That works for me. On a wet pour, you have to get it done in time! If I take an hour break....it will set up, get hard. and I am not done yet. Even your video shows 3 or 4 people working to get it done.. I am sure 1 guy could do it your way IF HE WORKED FAST! I can not work fast. I work a few minutes then take a long break. Like I said, I have no money for help. Dry pour is the only thing that I could try.
Interesting, even the 'experts' don't do it right. Poured with the mesh laying on the ground. A little bit lifted towards the end but it should be in the top third and the concrete was not vibrated. It's not hard to do it right.
$8000 vs $80-$800 you choose.
next time you might. want to pick up that wire mesh reinforcing and get it in the concrete instead of under the concrete.. I suggest putting down a layer then picking it up to top of layer and then topping it off . Otherwise Great job ! looks great !
So mike, you have a lot of good questions, the same ones I did, But I, being an engineer, didn't just guess and speculate. I devise some pretty simple tests to answer those questions and concerns. I want definitive answers.
First thing I did was do my best to forget everything I knew about wet concrete. And I did not just assume wet was better. I completely get that it is really tough for someone like you, with all your wet pour knowledge to put that out of your head. I watched your dry pour experiment and noticed the multiple times in the process that you saw things that didn't look right to your wet pour wired brain, so you tried to "fix it."
But again, rule number one for dry pour is forget what you have learned about the wet pour process,
I made multiple test dry pour tests using the same methods. I made several forms using clear plastic containers that you could see through to observe hydration throughout the process, through the sides and bottom. For watering, used a garden sprayer set to a fine mist, so I could very accurately measure how much water was being used. I even went so far as to put a plastic sheet down to catch overspray and measure that so I could subtract that from the total water used by the sprayer, so I knew precisely how much water the slab got in total. I calculated the total slab volume and then knew exactly how much water was needed to get the minimum amount. (As I said, I'm an engineer so I wanted precision measurement.
Now you want to be sure the dry mix is adequately blended when you get it, so I recommend working it a bit with a rake to be sure it's well blended. (As a side note, I did some detailed examination of the dry mix. and it turns out that the cement powder fixes itself pretty well to the aggregate. Looks to me like maybe a static charge effect that makes a coating cling pretty well to the aggregate, I was pretty satisfied that the cement in the mix was well blended,) So some engineering overkill, maybe, but I wanted to be sure the dry mix was well blended.
Now a note on screeding. You want to be pretty aggressive to ensure the aggregate gets pushed down and the fines are brought up. This is the most physical work necessary in the dry pour process. But the key advantage to dry pour is that one person can do it and you have time to pace yourself. So you can screed for ten minutes, take a break and go back at it. Take your time and observe how well aggregate us buried and fines are on top.
Using the dry paint roller makes an amazing transition to the fines on the surface, It does way more than you think it will. If you see a spot that could be better, ten re-screed and reroll that area. Then it is ready for water. That said, I have found that you can get an amazingly good surface, by dusting the slab with a vert fine later of 1 pat Portland and 2 parts sand, well mixed. Use a kitchen strainer and dust it on like putting powdered sugar on baked goods. Some guys use mortar mix on top, which I do not recommend because motar mix has lime in it. With the Portland/sand mix, you are matching the fine exactly as in the concrete mix. Cheaper too. It doesn't take much to improve the surface. If you ad about an 1/8 of an inch, this is plenty to improve imperfections. I see this as an optional step, but then hit it with the paint roller and you are ready for watering. Everything up to this point is not time sensitive and one person can easily do it without help.
So, I adjusted the watering schedule somewhat, based on observations, So I fine mist to the point where color changes, but no water is collecting on the surface. Through the sides of the forms, I observed the water migrating down into the slab, Very evenly BTW. After 30 minutes, it migrated down about 3/4 of an inch and slowed down or stopped migrating. So my modified schedule is one watering every 30 minutes using mist only and avoiding any water starting to collect on the surface, so evenly wet but not saturated. Each watering I watched it migrate down amazingly consistently. about another 3/4 inch before it was fully hydrated. I must admit, I was a bit surprised at how this actually worked in practice. It tells me that the concrete mix hydrate very evenly and absorbs the water in a downward direction.
I continued with this same process every 30 minutes for a total number of watering being equal to about every half inch of finished slab. So for a 3 inch slab, six waterings 30 minutes apart. at the last watering, I could observed the full thickness of the slab being fully hydrated. I was really surprised at just how consistent the absorption rate was and I repeated this in multiple slabs,
So at this point, I carefully measured my total water usage, And another astounding surprise! The total measured water used, subtracting the measured overspray, matched the calculated minimum water require plus a few percent! SO what this tells me is that if you water correctly, you will achieve full hydration without using too much water. My target was to be at minimum require water plus just a bit more to account for slight variation in your actual dry pour slab thickness. By repeating these test slabs multiple times with the same observed results, I'm convinced it is a very repeatable process and at least somewhat self regulating.
So I let these tests cure and removed them from forms and ten cut theme with a concrete saw blade. Very impressive showing evenly cure concrete with excellent bonding of the aggregate, Keep in mind that i rigorously followed my procedure, never trying to correct something that didn't look right or improvising along the way. I followed he plan with engineering discipline so I knew I could trust the results.
Lastly, I took cured samples and strength tested them. I used a hydraulic press with a homemade pressure transducer. n calculated the pressure for the ram diameter. Granted, not as accurate as a lab test using ASTM standards, but a reasonable substitute. I observed and calculated right around 2500 PSI. I won't try to suggest that these were lab quality tests and there was some variation but then the top and bottom surfaces were only roughly parallel and my sample were not perfectly the same size.
If you are honest about it, you set out to prove that dry pour was not a legitimate option, but you really didn't demonstrate an honest answer to the question. You did not follow the directions and instead created some bastardized hybrid of both wet and dry.
Started the video stating a bunch of questions you had about dry pour, but didn't remotely attempt to answer them, t reminded me a lot of some guy questioning he election talking about unproven allegations and raising doubt with questions you couldn't answer. Questions are fine if you use them to find real answers and not to just to spread doubt. As I said earlier, it would be very hard to unlearn what you already knew, assuming it applied.
A lot of people told you they had good results but you just rejected those out of hand. I gave you very accurate answers to your questions and plenty of supporting detail. Mike I'm giving you this because you are a concrete guy and should really know how to do this and not blow it off as a crazy method. If you think about it Mike, it really should work, but it will go down far differently than what you are used to. In the end, it is much easier and one person can do it. It has a couple key issues that you need to get right for best results but it i forgiving and can be redone before you start watering. It's important .to get the watering right, but it is pretty easy and you just need to have patience. BTW, don't pre-water the area. You want the water absorbed down, not up. You do not need to worry about the ground pulling water out of the mix because dry concrete is far more hygroscopic that sand or dirt. Better that the ground is dry so you aren't drawing water up. You want i to migrate down, And if the ground is damp, it's actually best to put down plastic sheet on the bottom of your form so you don't pull moisture up. It's a good alternate method and I have proven that the science supports this.
Thank you for your comment. As a woman whose strength limit is dragging a 60 lb. bag, dry pour makes all sense to just make a pad in front of the back door. Since I live in a very dry S. AZ, I was wondering whether to mist the ground first, but without knowing the science of it I won't pre-water the ground.
@@hisremnant You're welcome!! I invested a lot of time researching and testing dry pour. As I stated, I took an engineer's approach to testing and evaluating dry pour. It is just too much easier than wet pour. I'm 70 and my back doesn't take well to abuse, I wanted to find the best ways to do it.
I love the concept but it clearly is it's own process that differs a lot from, wet pour. I find uses for it that I previously considered doing wet, but decided against it.
A few other tips I may not have mentioned. Some guys have suggested using a layer of mortar mix on top to improves the surface, The problem with that is that mortar mix has different properties and has lime in it. so it will cure a differently and doesn't handle freezing weather the same as concrete. But the fines are key to a good finish. That's why screeding well is important. But you can make your own, fully compatible fines using one part Portland cement and two parts sand, You can sprinkle a bit of this on top, just before using the paint roller. It doesn't take much, about an 1/8 inch will do. It will improve the surface an is the same as the mix without stone, so it is fully compatible. If you screed up enough fines, you won't need it, But adding a bit make the pant roller step a little better.
Thank you so much for your work! I am not an engineer, but really appreciate the engineer approach to things. As a physician, we look for evidence based medicine - and I really appreciate defined evidence. Then I can make an informed decision off the evidence and not just opinion. Great job!
Thank you for your engineered scientific analysis I really enjoyed reading it my wife and I have done three dry pours so far and they have come out fantastic. Thank you for your experiments and the results that you shared one thing I do disagree with you on is that the election was stolen.
@@hs9917 I look at most things with an engineer's eye. Theories are a starting point, but in the end, you have to look at the actual data the results provide, I try to keep an open mind but le the real data determine the results. As I noted, a few times I found the results were different than anticipated.
As for the election, there were a lot of theories and possible explanations, but in he end, the real data did not support theft at all. Not a single proposed theory about what happened, proved to to be true. Even smart people who supported the guy, looked at the results and found them correct as reported and not manipulated as suggested and people who spread the lies have been convicted, Sorry you were unhappy with the results, but facts are facts. Sometimes they tell us what we don't want to hear, Good luck on your dry! pours
I am trying my first attempt at concreting capping an old concrete foot path which is old and Pitard. I am using a bonding agent but won't do the dry mix as I don't know that much about it, but you're the man with the expertise. so will go with your believes.
thanks Mike
Looks to me like a 3 man job, 3 times as many tools plus the concrete truck and another man so 4 man job vs a one person job. So definitely 4 times as hard to do and costlier. because of equipment costs.
I had an excellent experience with dry pour strictly following you tube videos. You had 3 people and mixer. Dry pour can be done with one person and someone to help screed. I wouldn’t drive on it or do a large area. You have to use mister setting on hose nozzle for a few swipes ever hour then up the setting. The surface turned out smooth with the screed marks for surface roughness as I didn’t have a concrete broom. If it holds up 20 years I’ll be happy..after that it’ll be somebody else’s problem!
Yeah, not at all saying what he did was wrong.
But you also probably have a short load charge on top of it.
To sum up, your video, presoaked concrete mixed with water lets the aggregate get a better bond to each other while a dry mix will bleed out its ratio with less bond. I think the argument is mute, people already realize they immediately lose more than half psi, and what they really want is just enough strength for simple projects vs cost of hire or self-workload. Understanding companies will argue people's methods because a business will dwindle. but it won't change convincing the wallet.
it literally costs nothing extra to pre-mix the powder with water in a wheelbarrow or bucket and will give the same result he has shown (assuming you use the correct concrete)
@@MrTheJeoff Yes, because wheelbarrows and time are free...
@@chrischeek2963 there are about 100+ ways to get some sort of bucket or tub for free and your already using your time anyway, might as well do it the RIGHT way the first time so you don't have to repair it down the road. Not sure why this is such a hot take...
@@MrTheJeoffI've never had anyone offer me a free wheelbarrow, but if it works for you that's great, as for a bucket, good luck moving that around your yard and dumping it easily. As for time, everything takes time, some just more than others. Your RIGHT isn't everyone elses. If it works for them (do your research and see the tests and results), then that's what they needed.
It's closer to 25% loss
Depends on the application, don’t need high strength for a side walk or porch, just high load locations like driveways. Never had an issue with dry pours.
I'd like to see some concrete strength testing using sample cylinders of dry pour vs. wet pour concrete. I remember doing that in an engineering class. That was a lot of fun!
I'm pretty sure no one's putting a car on a dry pour...my dog is 30 lbs
@@MannyTwiceSo then how thick is it? I don't get it like if you don't need that much strength. And why do you have such a thick slap? Like? You don't understand what concrete is more efficient at holding the same strength. So you need less of it so it's easier and more efficient to use it. So it's dumb to say? Oh I just use the whole truck of drypour
@@MannyTwicethere is a guy on TH-cam showing just that. The dry held up as good as the wet pour. He cut both in half and drove over both and both held up. Do some research.
u should have stayed in school ,now u at micky dee ,looking back reminiscing.shitttttttt
Many have done videos on comparisons. There is not much difference in strength between dry and wet pour. The biggest difference is cure time, it takes much longer for dry pour to cure. Once cured , there is little difference between dry and wet, well except for cost, Im an old man and poured a dry pour 28x16 pad by myself, for less less than a quarter of the price of getting someone in to pour for me. I would not be physically able to wet pour a pad that size by myself, but dry pour, it was so easy.
I have been dry pouring for many years over many homes and projects. Never had any cracking or problems. I just can't justify the cost of having concrete poured for sidewalks and patios. If it is for a garage or around a pool, yes. But Cement pours have gotten outrageously high. If I want "wet" I order it myself and do it. It really isn't hard if you know the process.
Great Points!
I think it is different On Fence Posts. I had a neighbor do his, and he did 4000 psi dry mix added water and then pounded it in with a 2 x 4 and then more steps like that and then a year later I came up to his with my fence and needed to remove a corner of his concrete... I used a couple of diamond blades and it was so hard it turned my diamond blade cherry red, the end of the blade curled. I could not even go more that a 1/4".... I was blown away! I gave up and just moved my post.
I have worked with busting out concrete for 42 Years off and on, I have Never seen that before. But then I learned about RCC (Roller-Compacted Concrete) like how they repaired Lake Oroville Dam in California. It is much stronger because it has just enough water mixed into it to make it solidified and they basically put it down as asphalt and then run the Roller over it... But like you said you have to mix it. So on Fence Posts it is a little difference I think if you pound / compact it. But yes to your point again the dry concrete needs to be Mixed with water for consistent strength and finish.
Hydration as well, compaction. Usually the lower the slump the stronger the concrete. Slump = amount of water. You will see many residential slab/foundation crews tell the driver to pour the water to a load. Easier to handle and it is not going to a soil lab for compression tests, etc.
Thanks for the info.
Good team work
Mike you are a pro, those of us who use fry pour know what you are saying we just either don’t have the money to pay to do it pro or strength to do it alone. We have a well that’s good enough mentally.
Great information appreciate it!✊🤙✊
I love DIY and have been looking into dry pour. But id only be doing very small areas and maybe step stones. If i needed a patio or slab off the house Id definatley want a professional or wet poured.
Grateful for your insights...not only wet vs dry, but just seeing how you did the work. I'm doing a small 4x6 soon (only 4 in slope) should I have any type of spacing board (1/4 - 1/2in) at the top of the ramp, between the ramp in the landing. Seems like some ramps I've seen have a little half inch board there.
Thanks again for taking the time to show us how to do the job!
I combine the two methods. I build up the dry pour to the depth that I need. If it looks good i'll leave it alone. If not ill finish it off with a few millimeters of topcoat with a mortar mix before I remove the forms. I did three 3x4 slabs at 2 inches thickness for my shed that's a 6x4. it's been 2 months and it has not cracked. I made sure I did prep the ground per usual as if it was a regular wet mix. Remove the dirt, compact, gravel etc.
Well it does hydrate all the way through.
You stated the reason no manufacturer has recommendations for dry pour. I totally agree with you.
I've been doing a parking sab in 7'x7' sections to keep the pour manageable mixing with 80 lbs. bags. For me 30 bags is about the most I want to do in a single session. each slab I do is getting better on the finish as I gain experience, but you experienced guys make finishing look so easy. Most first timers are not going to get the finish you get. For many applications the finish is not so important, but the strength is. Personally I'm stickling with mixing, but I'd still like to see a fair legitimate test with fully cured concrete dry vs wet considering only strength as a first time DIYer is likely going to get a bad finish dry or wet. Also the exposed aggregate like most of the dry pours get is a legitimate finish that some people like (not me but...)
I've been doing doing a dry slab 28x16 pour myself. I've been doing it in 4ftx 16ft section to keep it manageable. Its about 22 66lbs bags per section. 7 sections in all. I just finished section 6 tonight. 1 more section to finish and I will share my results on TH-cam. I have done 15 dry pours before this. So Im am really starting to get a good understanding of dry pour.
To answer your question, I believe, when done correctly, dry poor is far easier than wet pour like in your video. Wet pour may or may not be more long lasting but I have yet to see a dry pour that is done correctly fail. I will be testing my dry pour after 30 days curing by driving my skid loader on it. I have no doubt it will hold it without issue, if it does that I wont need anything stronger. we shall see.
If I had a 4 person crew and a big enough job to call a truck in, I'd do it just like you did, but what if you are by yourself?
There are plenty of videos showing how a dry pour chicken coop slab held up after 6 months, how to get a smooth finish etc.
Wet mix properly done is superior, but that's not the point. Even pouring a slab in sections would be difficult if you have no help. Some will simply set pavers on the ground as an alternative. Dry pour can be done at any pace by one single person. It's still work, but not time intensive work and it might be good enough for many purposes, but I'm comparing it to pavers laid on the ground, not a traditional concrete slab poured by skilled workers
That is an option. I have one project I'll do with hand mixed, but I have another noncritical area I want to try a dry pour on. I have my own ideas I want to test.
I’m definitely doing dry pour
Two weeks ago, I was correcting a stone drainage flume off my driveway. Originally, it was just stone laid in the trench, but over a 6 month period, got all sorts of leaves, dirt and other deleterious material in it, so I decided to dig everything up and concrete it with the stone. I considered a dry pour to make the concrete act like a mortar, but considered the implication of not enough water penetration in the mix and later getting too much, so I mixed the concrete the correct way and I am glad I did because after 24 hours, that flume is solid and won't have to worry about concrete cracking, since this flume is supposed to divert and drain a lot of water. If I had dry poured, it would have been a quicker process to finish, but I know it wouldn't have been saturated enough to harden properly.
You're such an expert, but you put your rebar on the ground. Do you do that for all of your customers?
i so agree with you.
❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊very good explanation. My DIY guru friends argued with each others over this same topic “ wet cement versus dry cement techniques”. I shared the test result that I conducted to compare “ apple to apple” and they are now understand. Here are what I did 1) cross section test showed the integrity’s density and hardness. The integrity of wet cement mix far better than dry cement/ sprinkle with water. 2) moisture content test showed the wet cement mix still retain adequate amounts of water which means its hardness strength continue to set.%
I'm really confused...isn't concrete porous by nature, so water moisture either by hosing, rain or drawing up from the ground is eventually going to wet a slab all the way through?
There is a reason you need to waterproof concrete in basement walls, so moisture doesn't permeate through to the inside. But, somehow if you dry pour, moisture doesn't permeate, thus dry pour somehow makes concrete waterproof?
Correct, this guy is an idiot. And dry pour is taking his bread. They don't want you doing it yourself cuz then they become useless. Imagine if everyone could easily install their water heater, or hvac, I guarantee there would be outrage in those communities. For some reason he kept talking about nonsensical stuff like "hydration is the chemical reaction between concrete and water" lol what?
It's a chemical reaction that needs to happen in one go to be stronger than a pile of gravel and sand
@@rustycarpenter1219 but doesn't the same chemical reaction happen to the dry pour, it just takes a lot longer?
@@aercegovic eh i think all the strength happens from the reaction happening completely all at once then allowing slow curing, my slab has a mohs hardness of like 7, not possible with dry pour
@@rustycarpenter1219 that makes sense. I can't imagine the dry pour being superior if all conditions in the wet pour are met.
Its great to have help because its a pain on one man to do all that work
I saw in the video where one of the guys was using a hook to pull the wire mesh up into the concrete. Then, everyone jumped in with rubber boots to work, level and smooth the concrete. So I’m guessing the wire mesh was stomped into the dirt below rendering it useless. Shouldn’t you have used chairs, or at least kept pulling the wire back into the concrete?
I was thinking the same thing!!! The point of having the wire mesh would be for it to be in the center on the concrete, not on the ground. Very poorly executed on their part, I would never hire this crew.
I definitely like the wet pour. I think it will hold up way better and smoother look. I’ve had a driveway and sidewalk poured years ago and has held up beautifully. Now I’m in a different home and have a piece of concrete that just disappeared from the side of my house. I don’t have the money to have somebody come and pour it so I may try the dry pour but I think what I will try wetting it more throughout the process of putting the bags of dry concrete in. It’s just a small space at the side of my house that nobody sees or walks through anyway. At some point I would like to get my driveway and side of the house re-concreted (if that’s a word) so for now it will just be temporary.
I made a tool shed slab using dry pour. I didn't worry too much about smooth finish. The thickness was 100 mm. I poured about 50mm then put steel mesh, watered it once with 'shower' setting, then poured another 50 mm. Watered two times with about 20 minutes interval, then did some compacting. In the end i mixed dry mortar mix with water and added it on the top. Next step was screeding. It was enough for me but as an experiment in about 40 min i applied thin layer of gray cement, sprayed with 'mist' setting. It gave me that magic paste on the top and allowed to get very nice and hard surface.
I believe it could be even better if i had more experience with concreting.
That wouldn’t happen because if u had experience in concrete you’ll sit here and laugh at your self 😂
@@SHADOW_VLOGZ I can send a picture to you if you want
Interesting!
Dry pour is a depends on the situation thing for me. I just did a dry pour at 3 in slab. I think it will do just fine. If it needs lots of strength I'll do wet. All depends on the usage. Iv done fence post dry and it worked just fine.
Should the reinforcement wire be in the concrete vs under the concrete?
It never occurred to me to dry pour concrete. I've heard of people setting fence posts doing it that way, but even that never made sense to me.
fence post is the only time you use dry pour, nothing else. You can see tons of videos on youtube, of people testing it in buckets with limited water (or the right amount) And they break open the bucket after 24 hours and you can see water got all the way to the bottom, and the concrete or "quickcrete" is completely hardened. I think anything larger, or wider, or deeper wouldn't get fully saturated or penetrated with water.
So what this does is allows you as a single person to do more, quicker, with literally the exact same results. When it comes to fence posts.
Noted. I plan to use dry pour in fixing a broken part of the slab in my house from a tree we cut down that used to grow huge roots. Filling up a hole in a room of my house with dry pour is easier than rolling in a wheel barrel over and over again, trying to avoid hitting the walls and door frames.
I must say, I understand why you may think wet is better than dry. On big jobs I would agree but for the diy small jobs I have to disagree. I've done both on small jobs and haven't found 1 better than the other. After 4 years my dry concrete has held up just fine and I've even done some 20 years ago before it was popular and it's holding up. Again I agree with you on big jobs.
That traditional wet slab costs $1,200....or $300 dry pour, with similar results. It's not the best, but it's good enough to last.
I think you're missing a big part of the point. I agree that wet-pour is best. So show me how to do a bang-up wet-pour job (just like this porch slab here) with just me alone -- not a 5-man crew, and no concrete truck to pour it all out in just a few minutes time.
I'm guesstimating this slab is 7x12, at 4" thick, which works out to 1 yd of concrete, which is 45, 80lb bags, I would dump 5 bags at a time into the form, wet it up real good, and shovel mix it, do this 5 times spread out evenly inside the form, add wire, and then mix one or two bags at a time and pour into form, and secrete as you go and then finish, you can keep it a little wet so it does set up to fast, or pour around 1" over most of the slab than pour the top inch, also putting a layer of plastic down before you put the first half of the concrete down to slow down the cure time, unless you're pouring in the sun on a hot day you shouldn't have any problems.
I've hand mixed, poured, and finished 100 bags in a day before, many times, but I'm a beast.
This video made me do dry pour.
You are the man Mike Day! All your points about mixing and finishing concrete from your experience need to be heard by anyone wanting to do a dry pour. I would never do a dry pour after watching this video.
Have you watched any dry pour videos for comparison?
@@Gourockian1 Yes, I have watched many dry pour installations. I can see where it should work fine! I reserve the right to try something different even though I have great respect for Mike Day and his methods. 😊
Long ago I helped a friend dry pour a basketball goal and some fence posts because he didn't want to borrow a wheelbarrow. Looking back we worked harder trying to mix in the hole than using a wheelbarrow would have been. When we pulled them a few years later we discovered the bottom never even got water but the top looked ok. Disaster looking for a place to strike!
Now I've poured several small projects using bag concrete mixed per the instructions using finishing techniques I learned from your channel and they have all turned out great. Thanks to your videos I've gained a better understanding of concrete.
Mike I am doing my first driveway. I am proud so far what is the first thing to worry about. This is Tim Ohio.
Thanks Mike and team, your effort is appreciated
Dry pour... When only the finest kwalitee concrete work will do. Seems like an advanced technique fresh from a land that embraces construction failures.
Can’t concrete absorb enough water over time to get the entire slab wet, top to bottom? I poured a 2’x2’ chunk dry and, after the top was firm, that concrete just drank all the water I could spray. A week later we had heavy rain for 4 days. I’m sure every little bit of that concrete got enough water to harden.
I think that dry pour leaves a lot more chance for problems. Probably adequate for places that are not going to be put under a lot of stress. A wet pour also can be a disaster if not done properly. the wire is on example that probably will not be an issue in a pour like that Called it 4 inches but only actually 3 and 1/2. What I have seen even by people who do this work is when a wet pour gets too hard to put a finish on the douse it with water to soften it up and then put the finish on. Looks good but often especially where you have changes in weather the top peels off. Done properly I know of sidewalks that are still in good shape for 40 or more years ago. I guess hand mixing it is more work but when I mix I see where sometimes the contents have seperated. And dumping from above the material will separate to some extent as well. I do use dry mix under pavers to get them level and they will absorb moisture and get some degree of hardness. For a driveway or some place like a shed where you might put a good amount of weight on it I would go with wet. I am thinking slab where you are going to put a shed. I would never say do not do it but think if you have the time and physical ability get a mix box and a hoe and just mix it yourself. Just an opinion and I am 67 and still mix my own and did so just the other day.
we had a brand new bmw dealership open up,3 level building including a basement (built from scratch) to store the brand new cars.Within a month the concrete in the basement started showing cracks,two months later they were 300-400mm deep and meters long.Clearly a shitty job
@@rorynesta7766 There's a video on YT where a professional team had to pull up a driveway they had just laid not long prior and redo the whole thing. The reason was that the mix they got trucked in from the concrete supplier was not up to normal specs. Sounds like this may be the case with your basement concrete.
@@Gourockian1 you do have a point though the was also an asphalt drive around the building also put down and to the adjoining service center and the surface on that was coming apart,meaning little pieces of asphalt was peeling off.Was annoyed as the whole road surface was layered with loose pebbles.Just shoddy workmanship tbh.thats NZ for you.
I have a large old concrete patio in the back of my house. There is a crack running horizontally through the middle of it and one half has dipped towards my house. Im wanting to do a pour over with new concrete to avoid ripping up everything. Would it be ok do it it this way or do i have to take up the old concrete first?
Great video. Can I ask a question, cuting a joint dry vs wet? Seen it done both ways, not sure which one is best. This channel rocks! - Thanks
Hi Mike , Mike Haduck here , I agree with you 100%, the directions on the bags say add water and mix "thoroughly " the dry pour people don't want to hear that. I am glad your channel is doing so well, you work hard and deserve it, all the best, Mike
Thanks Mike, all the best to you!
Of course the directions say that, because wet pour is the 'traditional' way of using bagged concrete but it's time they added something to indicate that it is perfectly okay to use it dry, for those of us DIY'ers who prefer that method. How many of you professionals would tackle a large slab without having any help on site?
@Gourockian1 the direction on the bag are clear, "add water and mix thoroughly " my opinion is dry pours are substandard and misleading, I did a video " Dry pour concrete yes or no? Part 2 to help take the mystery out of concrete,l suggest you watch it.
I’ve done a lot of amateur concrete pours. I would never do a ‘dry pour’, for the reasons you have mentioned .
So how much would you charge for a slab that size?
Cement people will always say dry pour will be bad due to there lively hood.
This video opinion is typical of an old school contractor. The dry method isn't going to put you out of business' but for the average home owner it works and it works just as good. I have used both ways and both have been perfectly fine for a regular residential home , however maybe not so much commercially do to traffic on the slab. Thanks for the vid
100 % agree with your comment.
Some of the professional people need to relax a bit.
I use the least amount of water to get it mixed, then hit it with a concrete vibrator to agitate the air out. After it sets up, I try to keep it wet for as long as possible / flood if possible for a month.
I cant saybfor certain how much the vibrstor helps with strength, but I wouldnt be surprised if it was a LOT. Esp for core filling masonry units.
Hey Mike what product can I use to paint stone to stop it from chipping from the weather elements. Also want color choices
I wish mine look like that
You make lots of sense to the average do it yourself guy. After looking at dry pouring and this job it is a no brainer to do a wet mix.
If it gets water, it will hydrate. If it gets water, being concrete is porous and not waterproof, how could hydration be prevented? I don't' think it could. However, there are some quick setting types that one might want to avoid, but even with those, given time, I believe it would completely harden as long as it gets water. Most places we live have enough rain to provide that water, over time, but a quick setting concrete might slow the process of getting hydration further down.
Great video! I already felt uneasy on dry pour, and you helped reassure me it's not good. I've seen other videos show it busts up easily compared to wet pour. Thanks again
Good, now go give a scummy contractor a 70% cost increase for a DIY. This guy is so full of shit, it stinks all the way here
No brainer always wet
Nice looking Pad Mike. You have a great team
Question Mike, did that bad “dry pour” slab have to be completely torn out?
What do you think about trailer pumps?
I’ve never done dry pour nor do I know anyone that has it seems like it’s not as strong. I don’t do much concrete work I only pour footings when we do additions or garages I have a flat work sub that does the flat work for me .
I’d use professional wet mix for speed and professional finish.
I’d use dry pour for other jobs as a DIYer. In your pour I saw at least 4 different people. If I’m by myself and don’t have a concrete truck, going to the store to get bags is easy for one person.
I don’t buy the strength argument. I’d almost argue dry could be stronger compared to a diy wheel barrel mix since most overhydrate (weak). Dry pour minimizes water ratio. Watering over time (hourly) for 2 days will hydrate all the cement since concrete is porous. My dry mix bag is already mixed (powder cement is covering all aggregate).
Anyway, I’d definitely hire YOU (the best) to do the job in the video (front step) - nicest finish by far.
But would do my own AC pad dry pour with a ok finish lol
You rock 👍
Awesome ‘Crete work! :)
Dry pour is very technique sensitive. If you under-hydrate on the first mist, it will bubble up, smoothing the powder takes a lot of time. Edging is challenging and gives less than professional results most of the time.
So, yeah. Wet pour for important professional looking stuff.
Dry pour for typical DIYer jobs - pads, a step, shed foundation…
In your first layer of concrete, before the rebar, is that dry pour concrete? Thanks.
I'm a believer now
When you dry pour it will soak in all of the water you spray on it and it soaks it in even. You can get a smooth finish by simply running a bull float across it. The more you screed the more cement will rise to the top. One reason it flakes is because it's over watered on the top. Yes, you can put a broom finish in it if you want. The reason for the paint roller is to remove the screed marks and to leave a none slip sandpaper like finish on the surface. Dry pour does work well but you have to do it just right. Just like a wet pour, if you don't do it properly then it won't come out very good. It's not as bad or difficult as you make it sound. You can get the exact same results if you do it properly.
I've done multiple dry poor slabs by myself. It's the way to go. I've saved thousands in the process. The results may not be perfect or withstand a nuclear blast as a wet pour but they are good enough for me and my requirements. My biggest project was a 10*15 for a tool shed, it is 5 years old now and it still looks good as new.
I thought the rebar should be mounted in the middle of the slab (using spacers) surely it’s not doing its job mounted at bottom or top?
I would like to know what the outcome would be if the dry pour mix was compacted prior to the wetting process? A technical explanation would be interesting. I have an idea.
You have experience. I have done all my personal pours and many when I was working, spillways, motor platforms, tank pads, etc. I had a nine man crew, trained pipe workers. Every so often I would have a man that had done concrete. Made a difference. As personal pours go I miss spoke. I am sitting in a 30 X 50 shop that I hired out. Getting older. I laid it out and prepped the base (compacting the soil under the pour is very important). Set batter boards and was going to form it. The man gave me a good figure that included him forming. The man had two helpers, one very skilled. They did a beautiful job. Getting older I mentioned, 73. The contractor was four years younger. You had four folks on that small pour. Great job. My point is with a redimix pour you have to coordinate with the batch plant. If you are not a frequent flyer with them you come last, or not at all that day. Then you have your help that has volunteered their time to help. I have done several 20 yard personal pours, two of them just me and another wore out veteran. On one the driver took pity and gave us a hand. I took care of him. Volunteer help? I had to take the edge tool away from a dude when doing a six X fifty two walkway on one house I constructed. I have done two 6 X 5 pads dry pour. Learned from each. Both are acceptable. The misting process is deceptive. If you only mist until the mix changes color I found the pour forms a scab that may delaminate. I had two spots on my first one. Lay the water on even if you get a wet spot, just don't expose the aggregate. I also flood the perimeter forms with water to let moisture wick up from the bottom. I will be doing a 20 X 20 in front of the shop I'm sitting in dry pour in sections. I get a pallet on my one ton, 42 80 pound bags = about one cubic yard, 4" thick. About an 8 X 12. Got a buddy I give a few bucks to help out. 42 bags run about $240. I pick it up at my leisure as well place it. Do it in sections. It will be a work slab. I have equipment going up to 10 tons. The substrate will be firm. I enjoy watching all you video dudes programs. Keep up the good work.
I get it your a concrete professional advocating for your fellow contractors. Personally I’ll do a “plenty good enough for me” dry pour for foot traffic only and save myself lots of money
Pulling up mesh with a hook doesn’t work. It ends up on the bottom of the slab where it does little good.
Now that you have had some time using MBW's battery powered screed how does it compare to the gas powered. Are there limitations. I have watch a couple videos from 2 years ago but i was wondering now that time has past what your thoughts are. I getting ready to buy another was contemplating the battery powered screed demon but I'm leery. When I purchase i will use one of your links. Thanks
Thanks for the video. I was thinking about dry pour for an upcoming project but while I was watching all the dry pour videos I kept wondering about exactly the thing you're talking about here: how do you ensure all the cement particles get the right amount of moisture? Now I know you can't.
Please read through the long response from Professor8383 at the top of the page. It details his engineering tests and the results might surprise you.
@@Gourockian1 thanks
"What you should know" Quickcrete even says not to do it, unless it's a specific mix, and only for fence posts.
Question. Im planning to extend my patio, but in order to get the extended portion of the patio leveled, it will be the height of my siding. Im aware concrete should not be poured on the siding, but would it be better to cut or remove the portion of siding, or should i cover the siding with a sheet of metal for flashing? Ive gotten a couple quotes to get this done, but not sure which method would be safer.
water would find a way under the flashing when it's flush...dependig on how much rain you get that water could pool and slowly rot out underneath the siding.
It's pretty easy driving a cement mixer up your driveway right to the pour and having 2 helpers to boot, 3 if you count the driver.
I have four dry poured concrete slabs i did 10 years ago. They are still together. Some cracks, but thats all.
Works both ways. You didn't mention the moisture from the ground. I have seen people use cement bags for retention walls as well
Craftsmanship is what you pay for. Nothing can replace experience, period. I know two popular concrete business owners, within the same area, and one has built his dream home at $2mill and he;s only 49 years old. They both have killer skills as do their employees which is why they have residential and commercial contracts with very successful builders and a couple of cities. They also both agree that if the correct measures are taken, such as depth, prep and steel supports, dry pour can have the same success as mix poured concrete, both for finish and longevity. Mix pour is where the money is because of consistent control of mix and five less hours of prep. The DIYer has nothing to loose IF the correct procedures are adhered to with a dry pour. Unfortunately a lot people are tempted to cut corners and not follow what it takes to perform a dry pour correctly. That is the difference.
Hey great video; I’m getting ready to add a 12’ x 24’ driveway extension… what is that mechanical tool used to tamp the dirt down?
It's called a tamper, you can rent one for 4 hours for $50-60, but for 12x24, you can just use a hand tamper, just lighty spray the ground with water and tamp until hard.
Could “wet-as-you-go” pouring a be viable option for DIY’ers? Form out the area for the concrete application. Place a vinyl barrier between the ground, and the concrete. Incrementally empty the dry concrete in the form, add water, and mix the concrete in the form as you go.
Wet pour looks like it takes less time and you get a nice finish. Dry pour requires watering, waiting, watering, waiting, watering. Good point on the control joint. Can't make a control joint in dry pour.
AMEN!
so Id like to ask, respectfully, What good is that mesh doing to strengthen anything, when it is right against the dirt and being pressed into it by the guys walking on it ?
Yah.
Mesh has to be off ground in the middle of pour. By the by, had added at the cement plant - fiberglass fibers for additional interlocking strength. Looked like hair. Supposedly can replace rebar. I went w/both.
30 years later - a fine crack has developed in one section running from one side to the other in a straight line which can be seen after rain and driveway drying - if you look for it.
But then, I did it myself, amateur vs pro (30x 16 total slab 4” ) and live in Ohio so...
From what ive seen so far, dry poor (unless using qk set concrete) does evenly distribute water well(no powder in the center). Its roughly 75% the strength of wet pour. The best test ive seen, wet pour was at 4600. Where as dry pour tested around 36-3800. Dry pour does not work well with qk setting. Im currently looking into freezing test.
This is the information im looking for. Here in MD we get a solid 4 seasons. I am looking at extending my concrete patio and putting a wooden patio cover. I think the dry pour will be strong enough to drill in the 6x6 wood anchors, but curious about the frost/thaw durability over time.
Mixing bags upon bags of concrete ain’t no joke physically. Also, it’s not practical financially for small projects to have a truck deliver. I think that’s where the dry pour comes in. I would trust dry for a basic pad like this or sidewalk, but it always made sense to me that it should be wet mixed with all the fines, cements and rock….but I’m not a concrete expert by any stretch.
I think it comes down to cost. Dry pour is cheaper imo. Much easier to get supplies to the site. I'm considering a dry pour for 4x5 pad bc I can't get a truck near the site. Enjoy your channel.
Did you dry pour a project?
I'm curious how a dry pour is cheaper? If you are comparing hiring your local concrete company to bring a truck of it, then yes a bag of concrete is cheaper. You can however add water to the concrete mix in a bucket, stir it up and pour it wherever you want. Takes a bit more work, but definitely doesn't cost any more and then you never have to worry about whether the water saturated deep enough.
@@MrTheJeoff Time is money.
@@andyh8239 which is why you do it the best way the first time...
@@MrTheJeoff I wouldn't dry pour... Terrible idea for nearly* every application. But I understsnd the alure....
Pouring a 4” pad over clay with 4” of crush n run under it. However the its GA clay and it is very wet/ mud like. Instead of using 2x the amount of crush n run and advice how to pour over something so muddy.
DIY job’s most job’s dry pour sometimes wet pour 👍👌👍👌
I understand your concern, but most don't need a lot of it or can afford it and most companies wouldn't discuss business with someone that only needs a yard.