The Worst Writing Advice
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2023
- What's the worst writing advice someone ever told you? To never say "said"? To avoid all tropes? To not let your hero cry? Let's hear some stories from Reddit, and talk about our own experiences in the comments!
Link to the original thread on r/writing: / worst_writing_advice_s...
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"Avoid tropes at all costs" uses a trope in itself, since "at all costs" is a trope. It's like saying "avoid cliches like the plague" but without the irony.
@crypticangel7056 Not even that. 'Blank book' is in itself a trope.
@@RayPoreon Write a single word and THEN publish.
@@jaydenadams5791 I'm pretty sure that's a trope at this point 😭😭
@@jaydenadams5791 spongebob writing his essay
How to public a book without tropes:
Just dont publish a book
"Try to forget your ideas so they come back better" is the STUPIDEST take I've ever heard.
It sounds like something a bully would say to consternate some poor sap, lol
??? I don’t even understand??
If I forget my ideas, 90% of the time those ideas never come back, and I get sad because now I can't share them.
@@Pipkiabloexactly!!! When you forget something like an idea it almost never comes back and its so annoying!!
@@presentexchange5108 i think its ment to be a “turn it off and then turn it back on” thing but with.. your mind..???
Hearing "don't let all of your characters die" is wild because there are literary classics that kill off most of their main casts. Shakespeare's tragedies are an obvious example.
The better advice is don't kill them for no reason.
Like, sometimes death happens for no reason. Say a character gets stung by a bee and dies. That's random, but happened because of the allergy.
Don't make your characters drink something labeled "poison do not drink" and expect us to be sad
@@genericname2747 Agreed. It should have some value in the story rather than just being random. Ophelia's death made sense, because she was gradually driven mad by her family and Hamlet. Her death makes sense because of how much writing went into it.
I mean I'm writing a fangan(literal killing game) so I kinda have to kill characters off
Ofc the deaths are all heavily planned into the story though, and I don't kill anyone for no reason
Edit: bestie, yes you do
I’m literally writing a story all about all the characters dying by the end
Probably more of a don’t do it just cuz
any advice that boils down to "never make your main character unlikable" is always so funny to me because all I can think about is Scrooge from A Christmas Carol
The audience doesn’t have to like your main character, but they do have to care about them, whether in a positive or negative way.
he's different from the lovable misogynist, though, because he's very clearly meant to be a miserable old coot from the beginning. the given advice of "don't make your protagonist unsympathetic" is blatantly untrue, of course, but the video's example is still a whole other beast from Scrooge.
@@noyz-anything It could be a case of a villain protagonist, whom we follow because we want to see them eventually get their comeuppance, or we could have a Scrooge-like case of a character starting off as a terrible person, but they're going to develop and change for the better as the story progresses.
If you make a Main character unlikeable, you need to do it intentionally. A few movies in recent Times Seem to have fallen For this particular Trap, where the Main character is unlikeable, but the movie treats Them as likeable.
I think they mean don’t make your character so insufferable people stop reading because they’re awful without purpose. Velma from “Velma” is an example of that. Scrooge is written as horrible in the beginning for a reason. We see him slowly see the error of his ways and the reader learns new lessons. Velma was a d*ck and yet we were supposed to accept it like it was reasonable behavior, which is why she’s a bad character
Never using commas would absolutely destroy the flow of a story, in my opinion. I cant think of any good story that doesn't use commas. We have punctuation for a reason!
Why would someone even be like “don’t use commas/punctuation!!!” when it’s so important for writing like???
@@scientistservant maybe their favorite book was A Pickle for the Knowing Ones by Timothy Dexter
Never using commas would absolutely destroy the flow of the story in my opinion I can't think of any good story that doesnt use commas We have punctuation for a reason
I still think, English as a language uses way too little commas. Like, you couldn't even give that advice, when writing in German, because commas are mandetory to form functional multi-layered sentences.
That being said, I never know where to put them, when writing in English. In this comment I just put them, whereever a comma in German would have been needed. Like an example.
maybe they like reading the house on mango street too much in 7th grade 😬 (In my opinion it was hard to understand who was talking)
"Show Don't Tell" is a _rule of thumb_ but more importantly as applies to literature:
Try to avoid using your omniscient narration to simply _exposit_ background details, set dressing, the emotions and motivations of characters, when instead you could demonstrate those things to the reader via the actions or dialogue therein. It's not a RULE, but trying to use more dynamic, diegetic methods like that can help make your prose feel a bit less... clunky.
I always found "Show vs Tell" is most important with characterization.
Like, you can't really get away with just Telling the audience that a character is Brave, you have to Show it too at some point.
One of my absolute favorite things to do as a writer is to make the 'show' and 'tell' conflict. Unrealiable narrator. Limited POV can let you describe self-deprication or interpretation of others as facts, only to then show exactly how untrue it is.
I almost always followed this rule after reading the Wings of Fire series, (a great series but there are a lot of parts that are... eh) for example, in the 6th book the protagonist, Moon, is a mind reader. Throughout the book the author keeps writing that Moon can tell how smart Qibli, another character, is through the way his mind works. Like how he's constantly assessing threats and multitasking in his head, but we're never really given any of his specific thoughts to prove this.(The graphic novel adaptation helps this a bit but that shouldn't matter) The protagonist is book 10 is Qibli this time, and you might think that "Oh! We get to finally see how smart he is!" but through the book he's just shown as a basic character with normal intelligence, making me think that the author didn't really know how to write a smart character without making it seem that all the answers just fell into his lap.
Here's my advice on one part of this:
Never say she saw, he saw, I saw, whatever, when you're talking about something seen from the narrator's POV. That's telling, not showing. Directly describe what is happening.
E.G.
No: "He saw the ground shrinking beneath him as the hot air balloon lifted into the sky."
"I heard a loud bang."
"She smelled something foul coming from inside the room."
Yes: "The ground shrunk beneath him as the hot air balloon lifted into the sky."
"A loud *bang* shook the windows."
"The foul odor hit her like a wall as she stepped inside."
That takes your readers out of the scene. When things aren't directly described, it feels less in-the-moment. I don't know how to say it better, but yeah.
@@mothwiingz This is actually really good advice! Gonna try to keep this in mind.
Any time someone says "never do this" I mentally translate it to "sparingly use this"
good idea
I usually take it to mean “endeavor not to”
Never touch children in bad places.
@@jacobesterson :(
@@jacobesterson💀
I was writing a story where the main character was a lesbian and had a girlfriend, and they ended up married at the end, and a classmate told me that it would be more “realistic” to have her end up with her male best friend, even after I explained that they were FIRST COUSINS, and were basically siblings to each other.
Not sure if that’s bad writing advice or just good old fashioned homophobia though.
Or that person’s wants incest
I mean it really depends on when your story is set. If it’s like the 1800s or something it would be more realistic for your female lead to end up with her best friend tbh.
Edit: but I’m assuming it’s taking place in modern time?
@@fishwithbuttereven then the character was a lesbian, that's first. And second, fiction is fiction, it does not have to be ALWAYS realistic
@@fishwithbutter it’s a modern story
@@fishwithbutterlesbians aren't new. we've been here.
the "don't say 'said'" thing is my least favorite writing advice
IMO there needs to be balance. If you avoid said at all costs dialogue will feel slow but if you use it too much it will feel lacking in color.
The way I always understood it is that it's too repetitive if you only use said, but a lot of teachers go way too overboard and try to stop you from using the word completely.
@@daforkgaming3320 And if you always use "said", you might be Nathaniel Hawthorne.
I'm sure he's nobody important ^^
@@daforkgaming3320 Personally, I never notice the repetition of "said" in a book unless I'm specifically looking for it. It's useful because your mind completely glosses over the word, so it keeps the focus on the dialog itself rather than dividing the reader's attention trying to derive meaning from a fancy dialog tag. Really though, I don't mind fancy dialog tags; they can be useful. Nothing wrong with them. I personally don't use them.
@@spectrethefox5450 it could still be subconsciously harmful to not include said. Words like “shout” “hiss” or “gasp” can shape dialogue or paint a scene in a readers head. Using only said fails this. A reader might not notice this, but they might subconsciously feel like the story is lacking.
Of course, there’s still the problem of trying to avoid said at all costs, which could be equally bad.
Just having flashbacks to where my writing teachers told me to never use "said" because "good writers never use it," even I knew that was kinda bullshit when I was in elementary school because there's PLENTY of books from profesional writers that would be considered failures in my school system for using "basic" words
Let's go back to using quoth
Yeah. Almost every required reading book I had in school broke the "don't say 'said'" rule, and it always made me feel like my teachers were hypocrites. You tell me to never use "said" as a dialogue tag, ever, and now you're making me read a critically acclaimed book that uses it all the time?
When I was in primary school our teachers told us they were allergic to the words "said" and "nice" and if they saw even one use of either they'd whip out a thesaurus and make us choose words our five year old selves couldn't even pronounce. They'd also fake cough and sneeze to prove their allergies.
I remember reading Leviathan Wakes, which isn't exactly a small book that no one's heard of, and seeing a lot of characters that 'said' something, and it was jarring to me as someone that had it hammered in during elementary school that you should never use said. I'm still trying to break out of that.
What about having to find "author's purpose" in a book written by an author that in another book of theirs says that idea is completely stupid (in the foreword) and that they don't intend the meaning others ascribe to their work.
The worst pieces of advice I’ve ever heard with writing are “Don’t use simple words.” “Always try and publish what you write” and “if you include characters who are gay and being gay isn’t important to the plot, you are homophobic.” The best writing I’ve ever heard was kind of the opposite of the last one, it was in one of Tonka Joey’s videos and it was “You don’t always have to write sensitive topics really well, even people who have experienced them likely would not be good at that.” (You should still try to write them well though but you can’t always be perfect)
I've heard variations of that one about gay characters. I also got called homophobic because my villain had a gay crush on one of the characters, and 'portraying gay people as evil is problematic'. Which would be a valid point if literally _everyone in the entire universe of this story wasn't gay_, including the character he had a crush on, the protagonists, random side characters, etc. And also this was done because I myself am LGBT and it bleeds into my stories...
Who the fuck thinks Not making being gay a Plot device but having gay characters is homophobic, that's so nonsensical, and downright counterintuitive. In a perfectly equal world, you would want the gay people to be treated Just Like anyone else, right?
@@PipkiabloI mean, it might be walking a thin line, but I don't see why a villain can't be the only gay character in a story. Villainize the character, not their sexuality, and it shouldn't matter one way or another.
@@AllisonJones1875 It's mostly because in the past, gay or gay-coded effeminate characters were almost always portrayed as evil or at the very least villainous, so it's just one of those things we don't really like seeing. But in a setting where everyone is some level of LGBT, it shouldn't really be a problem because they're no longer the sole representation.
I personally believe the opposite of the one about gay characters. Sure, it's good to write a story about queer experiences. It helps non queer people understand better what our lives are like. But I personally prefer stories where the characters' (for lack of a better way to put it) queerness doesn't even need to be brought up. Give me a queer character where the fact that they're queer is not any part of the conflict.
Semi-related story:
Everyone got the "said is dead" lecture once in their life. One of my teachers in middle school _hated_ this. She had us do an exercise where someone was speaking to make a point. She went around, doing exactly as was written on our examples. It was literally just one sentence of dialogue so this was feasible. If someone wrote that the dialogue was exclaimed, she exclaimed the basic sentence, and since we were middle schoolers, that was silly. If someone wrote that the dialogue was shouted, she shouted the basic sentence, and since we were middle schoolers, that was silly. If it was whispered, she whispered, and so on... Until she got to mine. I thought it was going to be another don't-say-said bs lecture and was fully prepared to be scolded because I liked to read, and I saw the word "said" constantly, sometimes with descriptor, and if not, it was surrounded by other features.
My contribution was like: _ "I don't know," she said, tilting her head._ (Not the exact line, I don't remember what it was at this point, but that variety of said + movement.) My teacher read it out loud, and I swear she just about cried. Someone in her class got it from the start. Said isn't dead. People simply _say_ things all the time, and movements, expressions, and environment mean something to the emotion of the scene. I threw "said is dead" away as soon as I heard it once, forgot the person who told me that, too. It's never too late to follow your gut about any advise you're given, even if it comes from a trusted source. Sometimes it really is just stupid.
Exactly this! Adjectives and verbs are the cornerstone of writing, even when describing speech. I always got yelled at for doing that when I was replicating authors I read (I've always been a few levels ahead of my age for reading level). And I always just went "But ___ who wrote ___ used that all the time. Are they a bad writer?" The teachers always would stutter then ignore me
Yess, my teacher explained that using "said" is okay and you shouldn't avoid it, even advise to use it. Also that if it's obvious in the dialogue that a character is asking or shouting, u don't need to underline it using "ask" or "shout" as dialogue tags. Just use "said", the reader will still get it
I think that what people are _actually_ getting at when they say this is that it's useful to have a good grasp on whether people will understand who's speaking without _any_ descriptive language at all. Unfortunately a lot of _professional writers_ internalize that advice to the point where they don't clarify who's speaking in situations where it'd be seriously helpful to clarify who's speaking.
For a movie show don't tell, but for a book you do kinda have to tell
Well exclaimed.
‘Avoid tropes at all costs’ has the same vibe as Cinemasins adding a sin for every trope they can recognise
And then labeling them as cliches
CinemaSins at least has the self-awareness to know that it’s not a good source of film criticism
I read Cinemasins as Christians so that was a confusing sentence. It was so close to making sense too, so I had to keep rereading it until I realized my mistake.
@@matityaloran9157 I always got the vibe they pretend to be legitimate film criticism when they can get away with it but use the claim of "satire" as a shield when people criticize their garbage videos.
@@FiveHundredThousandAnts A lot of CinemaSins critics make that claim about them but it’s not really true. CinemaSins say they’re mostly comedy with some genuine film criticism thrown into the mix and they’ve actually admitted their mistakes when called out for them. It’s CinemaSins fans who tend to make the Schrödinger’s joke argument where if you agree then it’s real film criticism but if not it’s a joke. But CinemaSins themselves don’t make that claim.
The first one about "don't read" is actually how reviewers will review things on TH-cam: By never checking out other reviews first. They call it "fear of cross-contamination" and want to know their thoughts are truly theirs. THAT I can respect. Not reading, I'll never respect. Not reading can be dangerous. Or worse, reading and only thinking you understood something without actually understanding it.
I do actually avoid reading certain premises when I'm actively writing a story about them--but only the very specific premises, written with the same (fanfiction) characters. For example if I'm writing a story about being on the run I won't avoid 'being on the run' as a reading topic, but I'll avoid it if it's the exact same characters at the exact same canon divergence. I don't want to be convinced away from my own interpretation of the characters and what they'd do in that situation.
@@stygian6642 Damn, I do pretty much the opposite. I love to be inspired by other people's plot ideas and characterizations and writing styles. If they're good, why should they only be used in one version of a story? I would love for people to be inspired by mine.
One time I wrote a fanfic I was inspired to write after reading another person's story for the same characters. It had admittedly a similar premise and I even specified that some of the characterizations had been inspired by their story. We vibed over it.
I used to write review of movies and shows, so i avoid seeing other people's review or take. But for writing stories, reading is necessary. U learn more writing skills by reading other people's work
@@stygian6642 I'm the opposite, I read something with a good premise, then I'm like "but you're writing it WRONG!" and that's how I get ideas (at least for fanfics). It's very rare that someone writes something exactly how I'd wanted them to be written. And of course you can then avoid the exact same minor plot devices, like how I've seen Harry Potter being in jail as a reason for him to end up at Snape's house (which was really clever and fit all the characters and everything perfectly, but kind of a "series of unfortunate events", very unlikely, and very specific, so you can't really copy it unless you really want to expand on that particular idea), or Harry Potter knowing how to change the roof of the house because he was forced to do so as a child (again, very specific, too specific and too minor to be a trope).
@@tymondabrowski12 I promise you I can NOT avoid those specific minor plot devices, because by the time I'm writing my fic I've forgotten what headcanons were mine and what headcanons I got from another fic. I'm all for inspiration and derivative fanfic, but personally when I'm inspired by something I want to name it and link to it, and there are so many headcanons I've absorbed from fanfic that there's no way I could link to all of them--so I at least try to avoid absorbing more headcanons while in the writing process.
The whole stance on "using boring words" (i.e. said, saw, walked, stuff) has always annoyed me but *especially* so when it's extended to dialogue. People don't talk the way authors write. My sentences irl are not the same as sentences I write down. I don't think anyone's are.
If a character is telling another character about an interaction they had, they're more likely to say "they said" rather than "argued" or "stated" or "exclaimed"
When people talk to each other, rules about the "correct" words to use should be avoided. Otherwise, everyone will sound exactly the same and be WAY too distinguished for casual conversation.
god exactly, i Hate when people in books talk like literary professionals or whatever, NO ONE TALKS LIKE THAT and it sounds so stiff and unrealistic
Plus, if you throw around fancy words into basic situations all the time they can quickly start to lose their effect. It might be best to save them for when a scene warrants them.
This exactly. Although I know it's pretty easy to get swept up in your writing, it's always been a pet peeve of mine when characters speak like they're reading from a poem. In my personal opinion, if a character tells a story, they shouldn't be telling it like a narrator would.
My advice is always add adjectives! They spice up "boring" words. Like "She said." is boring. But saying, "She said excitedly." is so much better
Exactly. Only rule I follow is that if I already used said for example a few sentences ago, I don't use it again. Then it actually helps to make it sound a bit better if you use an alternative. But obviously it shouldn't apply to what your characters say. "She said that and then he said this and then mom said something else" is totally something I could imagine a character say.
An iconic quote from an iconic book IS “Dumbledore *said* calmly.”
Another iconic quote from an iconic book is "Slughorn ejaculated"
So yeah... sometimes you can just use said.
Funnily enough, that same book series is also known for using a lot of synonyms for "said", some of which... don't sound the best
i was reading Harry potter recently and was genuinely shocked when i realised how many times the word "said" was used over only two pages (it was in goblet of fire so it was mainly a back and forth convo between Harry and Hermione) i think it was used somewhere between 15 and 20 times
@@tailpig6417Snape EjcuLatEd
@@tailpig6417 If I remember correctly, the Polish translator in the "words from translator" or something wrote that he removed plenty of them (completely, word + who said that, leaving only what was said) because there were way too many of them and he said he believed that kids (or, at least Polish kids) are smart enough to figure out who is speaking without much trouble.
I feel many people misunderstand show don't tell. A better way to phrase it is "demonstrate, don't describe" It can be used for many contexts, but it's mostly used to show emotions and character traits through a character's actions, rather than just telling the audience that they are a certain way. Show/demonstrate a character's anger by having them clench their fists, show/demonstate a character's impatience by having them interupt or cross their arms. I also wanna say you CAN show/demonstrate through dialog. Like I said, interrupting is an example of showing a character trait: so is stuttering, using filler words, use of formal/informal language, etc.
Also keep in mind that showing/demonstrating does not always have to be overly long. "X smiled." Is all you need to show that a character is happy. The more impactful an emotion or scene is, the more you can write about it, but for minor scenes that are inconsequential in the long term, a short sentence will suffice.
Also, for "never say said", while geniunely bad advice, comes from an annoyance from repetition in dialog scenes
"", X said
"?" Y said
"", X said
Notice how that feels overly repetitive? You can fix this by replacing dialog tags by a character doing an action
X folded its arms. "?" It asked.
Y paused for a moment before recollecting its thoughts. "Beats me."
Yes thank you
@@imperfectwaffles5688 also, using dialog tags can give a nice pause to a sentence if the sentence needs it.
"What's wrong?" the bully said. "Cat got your tongue?" The timing wouldn't be the same without the dialog tag, but it also means that some lines that would work better without a dialog tag as some lines need to be faster paced
A is at its limit. It could feel the raw heat emanating from its forehead. "Well MAYBE if you just-"
"WILL YOU SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!"
At that moment, A stood silently at B's request.
Notice how the context already clues you in on who's speaking, or at least, that's what should happen.
omg wince media?? omg !!
oh hey Wince Media
@@Wince_Media Yeah. Usually when I'm writing, and the scene has only two characters, I just forgo the dialouge tags entirely.
"Ew, what is that?"
"It's a sponge"
"Put the sponge down, Todd"
Eliminates the repetition and makes it feel a little snappy-er. But obviously there will often times be more than 2 characters to juggle, and tags can be downright necessary.
“You should have at least one piece of sensory imagery in every sentence”
Sometimes, people just do things, and I don’t need to describe exactly how they did them. Books would be a lot more tedious if that was good advice
That advice is why bad and inexperienced writers end up with so much purple prose.
i dont read books but imagine if someone used no sensory imagery on purpose so everyone interprets the book differently
@glitchon7151 Thanks, I now have an idea for how I'm going to prank my reader base next April Fool's day.
You want that kind of thing in your story _in aid of giving a sense of presence._ Do that when it's needed or wanted; it helps avoid the passive voice.
I dabble in horror, and the scenes that scared me the most are the ones that are hardly descriptive 😅
"i'm not gonna write anything down, it's so good i'll remember it in the morning!"
narrator voice: she did not remember it in the morning.
Keeping a notebook on your nightstand for these lightning strikes in dreams didn't work so well either. William James tried it. Came awake-ish one fine midnight, jotted, and again slept. Come morning, he opened his notebook and read:
_Hogamus Higamus, Man is polygamous;_
_Higamus Hogamous, Woman monogamous_
and gave the whole thing up as a bad job. 😢
@@w.reidripley1968 im mainly an artist, but i write as well(gotta love suffering creatively twice XD) but i tried writing down things i woke up in the middle of the night with the idea for.
the last one i wrote was months ago, and i really wish id remembered the context was just simply _GIRLic Bread_
all i understand is that its girl + garlic bread, i dont remember a single detail beyond that, and i kind of wish i had cause i have no idea how im supposed to draw that, even months later
@@MamaTrixxieAsmr a garlic bread with a pink bowtie cause it's a "female" (how can food have gender i don't even wanna question)
@@KyumifunWORDS can have genders, of all things.
@@Kyumifun Tf were you trying
With the whole "no unlikeable main characters" thing, now I want to write a chosen one type hero who seems good and likeable but slowly makes more and more bad decisions, doing things that they shouldn't, still convinced that they are the good guy, they are the hero, because if they aren't then what do they have left? They've been told all their life that they are good, they are the hero, they will save us all, even as they crack under the pressure, even as they spiral into villainy, until they find themselves at the realisation that they are the villain of this story, that the people will dance on their grave and that their life shall not be mourned. also lots of commas cause screw that one person who said to never use commas lol-
Spec Ops: The Line
I was about to say, "Spec Ops: The Line" but it seems someone beat me to it
Lol i like making my mc the villain in disguise. It gives off an interesting perspective
this sounds shakespearean and i would love to read it if you ever do write it
Kinda sounds like a rewrite of The Boys from Homelander's perspective. That sounds intriguing actually.
Aside from the obvious "never use said", the weirdest one I got was "don't include dream sequences". Bear in mind this wasn't about the "it was all a dream" trope, this was about dream sequences in general. A bit tricky to avoid when my story is about dreams...
Ughhh the "don't do dream sequences" advice messed me up for years and it doesn't even make sense because I've never quit reading a book cause of a dream sequence
yo this what happened with the giver? did the author get this same advice?
Someone must have not liked Omori
@@Leee275 close
Half of Percy JAckson's books are visions and dreams💀
The universal trauma of "don't say said"
Lol im still recovering from it
I think this one is a white lie. Educators tell it to new young writers so that they both expand their vocabulary and pay more attention to word choice. It draws attention to the TONE of a piece of dialogue.
That being said hundreds of terabytes of ridiculous fanfiction was generated because of this
@@trequorTeaching the group who take things the most literally literary rules by using imperative phrasing has been a disaster for their writing.
Reminds me of my substitute teacher and my joke.
Sub: "Don't use 'like' incorrectly"
Me: " 'Like' this?"
Someone once told me that I should always use adverbs (i.e. “She threw the book at the wall angrily.”) because it would help improve the emotional portrayal in my writing. While this isn’t completely untrue, using adverbs *all* the time is just another way of treating your readers like they’re stupid since a lot of the time, the character’s actions alone should be enough to set the emotional tone. If a character is punching a wall, you wouldn’t need to be told that they’re angry. You could just infer it on your own.
Indeed, it's important to remember your readers aren't dumb. They know how to use context clues to figure out what's going on, and they can put two and two together to predict what will happen next.
@@nightingale-bloom I was told never to use adverbs lmao
Reading this reminded me of the time I wanted to throw a book out of the car because I finished it and hated it with every ounce of my soul.
Real, if Mariah cried you don't have to say "mariah cried, feeling sad"
I learnt in a class that adverbs should be avoided and used if it's rly necessary. I gotta say, it is better that way
"Your first chapter should be a bunch of info dumping... a TH-camr said that, so it must be true."
Who? Terrible Writing Advice?
I think they probably misunderstood some good writing advice. It makes sense to introduce information that's most important for the whole story right at the beginning. But that should only be the most essential things like for example who your character is. But you shouldn't infodump and instead actually show what your character is like by making them do something. And even that rule can be broken sometimes. Sometimes you can hide who that character is on purpose to make them appear more mysterious. The main goal of the first chapter is to draw people into the story, so you should give them exactly the information they need to be interested and not more and not less.
Well,not everyone knows what sarcasm or reverse psychology is...
@BrunoMaricFromZagreb While true, anyone who clicks on a video with "Terrible Writing Advice" in the title should definitely know better than to take said advice as actually good advice.
FR LMAO
Also, make sure to NOT make a Mary Sue!!! Mary Sue's can NEVER be fun, even in a short whimsical story
The reason they call it info dumping is cuz it's garbage
I use almost every rule sparingly that apply. Like show don’t tell. If it’s an emotion I am specifically telling, then it’s important to say what the emotion is, but if it’s about the way someone reacts or behaves then that is when you should show and not tell.
My writing teacher in high school told me “master the rules so you can learn to break them.”
Best advice hands down.
I try to make sure to only really label the emotion if the character feeling it is identifying it
@@tticusFinchyou put that into better words than I tried to in my comment thank you 😂
Oh my god that reminds me of one of my favorite quotes ever. "You must know the rules like a pro to break them like an artist." Pretty sure this was some youtube comment, don't even remember what it was about. I wish I had found it before I finished high school so I could've made it my senior quote.
I mean the main principle of the advice isn't that you can't tell people a character is feeling an emotion, but rather that you need to show the consequence of the emotion to convey it to the audience.
You can tell the audience a character is angry in something like them realizing it internally.
But unless you show that anger manifesting in some form (be it them shouting, raging, changing their attitude or even 'quiet rage') the audience might not believe the character if they can't identify them exhibiting any traits of that emotion.
I treat character dialogue to be either a react situation or a conceal situation. In a conceal situation the character will be saying something that isn't really how they feel, but their body language tells you the truth. In a react situation that's when the character says the ugly and unacceptable truth on impulse, and at times the things they say they regret.
That “said” thing is so widespread. A teacher told it to me in middle school. After a year or so I just realized “This is dumb I shouldn’t have to be looking up synonyms every time someone says something. People just say things sometimes” and quit. Proof that many English teachers are not writers and that can seriously affect the way they teach their subject.
Also, you can only be good at writing or art? Wonder what that person would think of comics written and drawn by one person.
Edit: ALSO also, a lot of “rules” really just depend on what you’re writing and what you’re aiming for. Various genres, tones, and themes can drastically change the creative choices you make. Part of being a writer is understanding that.
Stephen Kings hatred of adverbs strikes me as bad writing advice. We don't all do things in the same way, sometimes we do them joyfully, or sluggishly.
Yeah, but I do think there's often a better way to show the reader whatever that adverb was trying to say. I think it's a real instance of "show, don't tell" often working. I'd rather "She tapped her fingers on the table. "I'm waiting."" than ""I'm waiting," she said impatiently."
Sapkowski the guy who wrote The Witcher uses way too many adverbs and it was so detailed
Hatred of adverbs?Elaborate.
@@BrunoMaricFromZagrebhe said "the road to hell is paved with adverbs"
Which makes me not interested in his books lol
@@FakenameStevens You gotta remember that it was originally written in another language (if you didn't read it in Polish). There are different "pain points" in different languages. For example, in Polish the worst offense you can make is repetitions, which is repeating the same word (or even a version of it) multiple times in a paragraph, because Polish words are often long so it gets *very* noticeable. Likewise, the dialogue is written differently, it always starts from a new line, so using the previous commenter's example, there would be an additional paragraph break: "She tapped her fingers on the table. [parapgraph break] - I'm waiting.'" The paragraph break splits the action from the dialogue, making it sound actually worse than the original "- I'm waiting - she said impatiently". Things just sound different in different languages.
Even the adverbs, why are they bad? So, of course some of it because it would be better to replace it with action (as another "show, not tell" example) or a better fitting verb, but part of it is because most of those "bad adverbs" (because I doubt you mean words like "yesterday" or "soon") end with "ly", therefore it gets repetitive (and it might also make words unnecessarily longer), but in Polish, there are multiple endings, and avoiding too many adverbs often just means avoiding too many of the same sounding endings. So, a paragraph might sound better in Polish just because instead of "calmly, interestingly, suprisingly" you get "spokojnie, ciekawie, zaskakująco".
Of course there still is a possibility to overuse them, or underuse other ways to communicate the same information, but I don't really think his use of language was all that bad or even all that unique among other good Polish writers. It is kinda in a sweet spot between simplistic (like Harry Potter, or Felix, Net & Nika if you want a Polish example, both great of course, but clearly written with young audience in mind; though you can get a bit less simplistic and still reach it), and heavy (like Dukaj, or, I dunno, Lovecraft maybe? I can't think of an example, because usually I don't like to read it), it was detailed, but with a smooth flow and easy to read, in my personal opinion. And I don't really remember overuse of adverbs, and just looking at a random page containing dialogue, I don't see it. But of course, everyone can have their own opinion.
The “try to forget ideas” is the WORST ADVICE IVE EVER HEARD
sometimes I have an amazing idea for a drawing, and i sometimes forget it and get incredibly upset, and I never remember it again. One of my favorite OC’s came to me in a vision while I was trying to sleep, I knew I had to draw it immediately so I wouldn’t forget
God
this, but unfortunately i only ever wrote down the concept and cant recall it
tragically, whatever image was in my head that was good enough to make me wake up in an ungodly hour of the morning and jot down in barely legible handwriting, the words "GIRLic Bread" is now forever lost to the world. XD
@@MamaTrixxieAsmr Darn you, memory!!!!
@@MamaTrixxieAsmrOne day, you're going to be eating at an Italian restaurant, maybe with friends or family, see a loaf of garlic bread and it'll all come running back to you.
"Fantasy needs a romance to be a fantasy" - I took this advice from an online teacher and it really just hindered my fantasy short stories for years.
that's so fucking random
That's... honestly really sad, is your teacher ok?
umineko
“Fantasy needs a romance to be a fantasy”
Might as well say your autobiography needs a traumatic childhood to be realistic
A teacher didn't give me a good grade on a project because I had characters (who were criminals) speaking slang in the dialogue. According to her, slang cannot be part of the text regardless of the concept zz
That's so unprofessional from your teacher.
Meanwhile, I could start an IRL argument by asking someone if it's a sandwich, a batch, or a cob.
I had a French teacher with that kind of logic.
She refused to teach any sort of slang and only taught "traditional" French which was dumb because it's part of the language so if we don't learn the slang then decide to go to France we're not going to know what they're talking about if they ever use any slang.
I think your teacher is wrong. Slang is a good context clue to indicate when and where the story takes place, if that is what you are going for, like 1920s gangsters in Chicago for example. Slang is unprofessional if you are trying to have a ambiguous/universal time/place as slang changes quickly and would leave the product feeling dated just as quickly that's why you don't see it used a lot in kids shows as they are trying for a broader reach. Knowing when and where to use slang is important
Well, that sucks. I was allowed to use “oi” albeit sparingly when a character was expressing how disgruntled they were at a situation
seeing that one "the curtains were fucking blue" image in middle school basically took a huge hit to my media literacy. the intention was innocent enough, it was just meant to say "not everything is symbolic" but i interpreted it as "don't look too deep into a story or you'll look like an idiot for trying to make mountains out of molehills"
I love the advice of never ever using commas because it just makes really painful to read run on sentences like please I'd rather have commas too often than read what I just typed more than twice. If I'm going to have a long sentence, let me abuse the commas.
My sentences at school are usually worth a normal paragraph, commas are a blessing
Agree, i'd rather die than having to read a whole ass page with no commas
A good advice would be to re-read your text and think about whether each comma should be turned into a period. In my writing, I change like half of them. But not all, that's insane !
The advice of "never using commas" -despite how ridiculous it is- actually has merit. There are tons of ways to replace commas! In fact, I find it can be a big help with controlling the flow of a paragraph. The advice is better phrased as "don't only use commas", and probably got misconstrued after being shared without thought.
That said, nothing is concrete when it comes to writing, so feel free to keep using them a ton. I do recommend experimenting though, to find your preferred style anyway.
I challenge you to read Cormac McCarthy. He hates commas. Any of his works really. I would sugggest No Country for Old Men.
8:25 As a Puerto Rican, I physically cringed at this. I don't even know anyone in my family who eats enchiladas... It's not even a Puerto Rican dish... I love Chinese food, does that make me Chinese? (No.) I'm tired of seeing people like this, it makes me laugh sometimes 💀
You just _know_ it's middle-aged suburban white folks saying this shit, too.
Like they couldn't even be bothered to look up actual Puerto Rican food? I live in the mainland and most of the time only eat Puerto Rican food around Christmas. Pasteles, pastellios, arroz con gandules, etc. Mom sometimes makes Chicken Fricassee, cabbage rolls, and ox tail stew the way her mom did. Sometimes I want broiled yuca or Mofongo, or bacalaitos but more often or not I make like Portuguese-style kale soup, or Japanese style curry or a cheese sandwich. The thing I use my Puerto Rican cookbook the most for is Flan
I find that so fucking stupid, like I’m Colombian and my favorite food is ramen (Japanese), like just because you are from a culture does that mean you can’t enjoy foods from other cultures? Stupid as fuck, plus enchiladas are not Puerto Rican 💀
7:19 That's not bad advice. Writing a short story helps you develop a basic but consistent plot, understand what's your writing style, it's easier to catch any mistakes, there are usually less characters so they don't appear once and just disappear. He didn't say to EXCLUSIVELY write short stories. He said to start by writing them. It's like getting mad at someone for telling you to start your fitness journey with some light exercises because it doesn't prepare you for the Olympics.
Definitely this
It’s more like telling someone to start your Olympic gymnastics career with running. You’re exercising different muscles. Writing short stories and writing novels are different beasts entirely.
All of the things that you say you’re practicing are important in short stories. But novels *have* characters which need to disappear, you can’t resolve plots too quickly, you have a large variety of settings, and you have to worry more about transitions both between scenes, but with chapters. Chapters are not individual little short stories. Short stories, by virtue of length, have to be leaner than novels-which is a valuable skill until you can’t hit the minimum word count for your publisher, or when you can’t adequately describe a scene, etc.
If you want to write novels, write novels. Throw out drafts, get to 20k words and decide you hate it. If you want to do short stories, do those. I have a lot of trouble converting over to writing short stories because I’ve spent my life working on novels of 70-120k words, pick what you want to do and focus.
i had one teacher who said that there can only ever be one main character ever. Including books with multiple POVs apparently.
Whose the main character, Tango or Cash?
Wonder what they heck she'd think of this book I read that has 2 separate main characters that interact like twice ever, and each are unbroken perspectives of the same length (you read the book one way, and than turn it upside down and backwards to the read the other way.)
@@gamesandglory1648that’s sick! Do you know the name?
Lol what that makes no sense
A bit late but name of the book? That looks so cool@@gamesandglory1648
"Never do ____" is just bad writing advice in general. Writing is an art form, and any hard and fast rule is only going to be limiting.
THANK YOU
My teacher told me every story must be circular.
Circular stories are fine, but just 1 way of writing a story
Creative advice that is given in absolutes is rarely worth your time. The creative process is so varied and unique, and everything has its time and place in it.
Writing advice is more like guidelines than set in stone rules. If something feels right to you but goes against what you've been told, nothing's stopping you from doing what you want.
In highschool when I was about 13, I had a Physics teacher tell me to "never use 'it' when in exams", and that was so drilled into me that even now I sometimes have to do a double take every time I see the word
Must’ve been one of the Knights Who Say “Ni!”
well that seems like _it_ was probably a bad idea cause the word "it" has loads of uses
How the hell was that supposed to work?! There's not really a synonym for the word "it".
@@deen7530 he said to replace it (the word) with a different subject depending on context. It (replacing the word) is always possible, according to him
@@deen7530 The advice for physics would actually seem to help imo.
By never usiing 'it' the student is forced to refer to the subject directly which clears ambiguity and makes it easier for both an examiner and the student to follow their own work.
Which helps preventing mistakes when you do a re-read to double check your writing.
"Don't make all your characters die"
Shakespeare:
when i was in elementary school my teacher told me that i had to introduce every single character in the first paragraph
all of them. in the first paragraph.
That would end up being a pretty long paragraph. And wouldn't make sense since some characters aren't introduced until much later in a story
All of them? Like "this is X, this is Y and this is Z"?
@@dragondelsur5156 yes, all of them >.>
@@dragondelsur5156 And this are the 100 secondary characters whose names you'll write twice in the story
The first paragraph would take up 3 pages.
"A TH-camr said it so it must be true."
Did they get this from Terrible Writing Advice ? 😂
Nobody told them TWA is supposed to be satire Idk what to say 🤣
I think they interpreted that as "he said it's bad so it must be true".
9:34 if chopping a scene is the same thing as chopping a living thing, then rewriting an entire scene is the same thing as killing a living thing
8:15 My favorite part about this advice is that enchiladas aren’t even Puerto Rican. They originated from Mexico.
As a Puerto Rican
I’ll oof the professor
I got this one piece of advice which was basically “don’t think of your characters as people. They’re tools.”
Like, I get what they were trying to say, but also I like my characters being complex people with their own stories and lives
I feel like the person who told you that is the type of person who also believes your characters don't talk to you
"your characters are tools" is the most iconic plotters' bullshit
@@quicksilvertheelegant3964 yes, it's the best way to make them realistic
Bruh, tools for what? With that advice they stop being people and instead they become tropes.
@@quicksilvertheelegant3964 i feel like it's unreasonable to go this deep and rant so much when talking about "Your characters are tools, not people", since it's just an imprecise way to express a good piece of advice, which is that the purpose of a character is always ultimately to help you tell the story, something that most people understand, and also since characters, being less than the vast wealth of information that is a person, can't reasonably be considered people, they shouldn't be written as if they are people or written in a way that tries to make them into people, even if they become people when you learn them and gain your own understanding of them (same principle as the idea that everyone has a different version of you in their memory, except that idea elevates a character into a person in the perspective of the consumer/reader in this case)
i realize after writing that whole second part that it seems like i'm responding to you saying the persona of the character guides your writing, but i just intended to add detail to the argument, establish my dominance, and indirectly describe why the advice is imprecise, mb
I see “show don’t tell” for writing like this: say a character is explaining themselves after doing something wrong (abuse, stealing, knocking over a glass of milk) but the writer only has the character *talking* about what they did, instead of going into a flashback or even simply describing how/what the character is feeling or doing while talking (anxiously running a hand through his hair, pacing back and forth, on his knees pleading for forgiveness at someone he hurt).
Getting into a character’s head is important, even if they’re a villain or some such, because it *explains* their actions and lets us empathize with them, or at least gives us a better understanding of why they do things, instead of having them be 2-dimentional.
that is legit good advice!
Show don’t tell is brilliant, idk why the thumbnail is framing it as “bad” writing advice. If anything, it’s one of the most important things in writing (or at least, that’s what my English teacher has always drilled into my head). But it’s seriously so much better than just “[character] was angry” or “[character] was bored” and so on!
@@TheBritishDragongI think it’s more or so about the wording of “Show don’t tell,” showing is a thing you can really only do in a medium where there are visuals besides words.
@@AGoofyJester
Same! This rule is more for animation than writing.
"Show, don't tell" is one of my favourite rules in writing and in art.
Especially in Art!(For example some scenes from Bojack Horseman are great examples of Show dont tell.)
“Never use commas” They taught you this back in 2nd grade.
Let’s eat, grandma!
Let’s eat grandma!
That's different. That's showing you how to use commas correctly. The sentence could be worded differently if commas were not used. You could write it as "We should eat with our grandmother".
@@lukegibson6044 Right, but that's not addressing the grandmother.
*on a trampoline*
Let’s jump, Chad!
Let’s jump Chad!
“Crap, now I’m hungry”
“Crap now I’m hungry”
Most of the “bad” writing advice I’ve seen is generally good but not 100% useful, such as “Don’t use purple prose”. It’s come in handy with certain POV characters. My basic philosophy is to never take anything as gospel, but to always hear people out.
Purple prose basically means prose that is so flowery and extravagant that it makes it difficult to read. It isn't just formal or fancy language. Language should be a communication device, not a smart-off.
Basically, if the average adult/you can understand a sentence/paragraph without needing to translate every 3rd word with a dictionary, then it isn't purple prose and you don't need to worry, unless you want to convey that a character is trying way too hard to be fancy to the point of annoyance.
Most of it IS good advice, it's just that people phrase that advice REALLY badly.
The only uncool advice I ever got, was "Stop writing characters with trauma"
Like bro, my present world is cruel and chaotic, of course at least one of the characters will have trauma.
Because trauma is unrealistic and god forbid people with trauma can see themselves through a fictional character
Who the heck thought it was a good piece of advice?
@@Hadeshy Apparently my sister though it was Great advice
I feel conflicted about this advice bc on one hand, trauma can be overdone in stories and can sort of overshadow non-trauma related issues and other aspects of life, but on the other hand… it’s very much a realistic part of human life and our struggles. I think everything is about balance.
@@radiokitty9007 Thats fair part, honestly.
@@radiokitty9007 tbf , most, if not all writting advice are more about balance rather than a "never do this"
3:45 Potential malicious compliance: Have the date be fantastical as well
That would be pretty cool & accurate to the world. The early Fantasy author Dunsany once did this, starting a story with:
"Scene: The great hall at Ilaunos. Time: The year after the fifteenth festival of the Akneian mysteries"
"If you're bored while writing a scene, you should cut it out. The readers will be just as bored as you."
That is NOT how it works. Sometimes you can mistake tiredness for boredom if you've been working for too long. Sometimes you just feel like you're bad with dialogues or exposition or descriptions, or maybe you think it isn't good enough. Oftentimes you just want to write a specific scene, to get to the point, but you have to tie it all together first before THE scene. Instead of cutting out a scene, you should take a break and think about it later (at least save the cut part in a separate text file).
One piece of advice that helped me was from a review of a really bad book by a 30-something year old. And the reviewer said something like "Yes, I also thought long, run-on sentences like this one made me seem smart, so l overused them. When l was 14, not 37."
I remember, back in junior high years, our English teacher impressed the class with a 70-word sentence that (in her opinion) wasn't a "run-on". She never really explored the concept of _why,_ though.
I guess the problem with writing advice is that everyone has their own methods. What works for me might not work for you. Whenever I write I have a pair of dice so that whenever I'm at the point of debating how I want the story to go I'll roll them to help me decide. Things like odd is yes and even is no, or how many such and such, or what time of day this scene is taking place. I don't always agree with the results but it does help to have something outside of my head making decisions that I can discuss about. I also tend to act out the scenes I'm writing. I'll try to become the characters to get a better understanding of how things would play out.
The “I guess you should start writing in braille” had me laughing for a solid 5 minutes
“Said is dead,” my elementary school teachers said
“Was like”
I remember once I saw someone say that if you aren't Publishing books by the time you are 18 you will never be able to write since your brain decays. They were deffinatly a teenager with rampent ageism. I then listed off a lot of Authors who started fairly old. and they literally said they aren't good because they aren't Japanese.
Joseph Conrad wasn't Japanese either. And his first language was Polish. Started writing in his forties. In English.
"Try to forget your ideas so they come back better"
my autistic ass can't remember what I had for breakfast this korning
I had a prof who absolutely HATED for us to use quotes in papers and wanted us to "paraphrase and use in-text citations" so then I had to try and rephrase a definition of a term the author of a chapter or article made up.. like I spend sometimes more time trying to rewrite it than the small explanation of why it matters for the topic of the paper
Back in high school I got this gem "You should always know *why* you are describing details" and what she meant was stuff like "if you make curtains blue make sure you understand you are conveying they mean there is sadness" no.. they are blue because you didn't want me to just say "curtains" you want me to specify a color and I randomly chose one to make you happy..
HOLY that one about "write simpler sentences" has stuck with me and has still fucked me up to this day, so much time in pre-college I had been drilled to "get to the point" but now so many profs want me to "expand on the ideas" like.. I got my point across a sentence or two ago so now anything else I do will feel like pointless fluff.. like now I am legit struggling at times just getting to the page limit because I am so used to getting my point across in a short enough span, only time I easily have a lot to write about is.. when I already have many ideas of what to write about
Also was taught to "edit as you go" and thus later it gets hairy when a paper is turned in as a "rough draft" and it is already pretty much a final product.. like it's fine when I get notes and get inspired on more stuff but when a prof just takes the "rough draft" and then says "okay now make it a final draft next class" like... I dunno what needs to be changed I already trimmed much of the fat I saw and don't know what you want done..
Alternatively being told "your rough draft can be incomplete, it's fine" and then getting graded down because there wasn't a conclusion or another page... like if you wanted everything just say so, don't cause a misunderstanding between what we each perceive "incomplete" to mean
I love how a lot of this advice of "words not to use" leads to the "this fic writer learned about synonyms today" kinda moments lol
I'd be like "nah, the curtains are blue because blue's my favorite color" or "because it's the blue sky of a happy sunny day" or something.
How is a quote different from an in-text citation? I always cited quotes
@@clarehidalgo quotes are "Bob said XYZ" while and in-text citation would be "ABC (Bob, 1980)" the citation is because you are saying the info is from something 'Bob' said in something from 1980 but you aren't saying the info word for word.. it's slightly different
honest to god, "you should always know why you are describing details" is good advice so long as "the curtains are blue dipshit, there's no further meaning" is a valid answer. when you call attention to a detail, there's the expectation that it's important somehow, unless you're just describing what you have pictured in your head because the curtains are fucking blue
“Write what you know.”
Nah
“Know what you write.”
👍🏼
The best writing advice I’ve ever seen is from one of my favourite authors and one of the most famous authors in the world; George Orwell. Here’s what he said:
1. Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
2. Never use a long word where a short one will do.
3. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
4. Never use the passive where you can use the active.
5. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
6. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.
Yeah I knew Orwell was known for his direct/simplistic way of writing prose. Reminds me of Ernst Hemmingway, who was originally a news editor so his skills at compressing stories into compact forms translated into his prose. I really like that guy's writing advice, but funnily enough I don't like his actual prose. I do like Orwell's prose though
probably the goofiest shit ever spoken to me is to "let your characters be able die" when i'm out here writing a story about characters that cannot be killed.
to be fair i've never been given good writing advice from anyone before, all writing advice i've ever received was just someone else trying to adjust my writing technique to match their preferences instead of understanding my goals first and attempting to give their thoughts from there. The worst advice always seems to come from the people that least enjoy what you're cooking.
Now I'm curious, are they immortal or have super healing kind of stuff?
@@Winter_Symphony super healing, inconceivable durability, unrealistic application of action movie logic, etc..
@@DizzyIM Heh heh, wow. Telling you to kill them is like Marvel dumping on big name villains every issue 💀
@@Winter_Symphony to their credit, it is important to have some way to build tension in a story with lots of action and danger. But the story in question is an over the top collection of characters fighting with a focus on spectacle and "cool factor", so realistic tension was never a goal of mine. Real common mistake to make, but yeah, very silly nonetheless.
The gold standard of writing in an academic field is to write at the complexity appropriate to your target audience. If someone unfamiliar with your field is reading, write very simply. If writing for your peers who study the same specific subject as you, then add more details and feel free to make more speculative statements because these are the people who will respond to your work. They might not like it but that’s ultimately going to make them have to tell you why they don’t agree with your ideas and find alternatives. But someone who isn’t familiar will probably take you more at your word, which is why sticking to the facts is more valuable when writing for a broader audience.
For creative works, do absolutely anything you want. There’s no reason to write with a complex structure or to avoid complexity. It’s about your expressions and conveying the ideas and feelings.
I really want to show all these "never EVER _IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE_ use the word said" people the bit in My Immortal where Ebony and Harry/Vampire meet for the first time. That exchange is what happens if you never use "said" lol
“He whimpered”
I just got war flashbacks, thank you
It's not just that one scene. The ENTIRE story is a cautionary tale against avoiding the word 'said' or at least using it without an adverb. I distinctly remember someone roaring at least one time, and a lot of things are said s*xily, presumably because she couldn't think of any actually appropriate adverb. 😆
DO NOT UTTER THAT _UNHOLY_ NAME!!
THIS IS THE SECOND TIME TODAY IVE BEEN JUMPSCARED WITH A MENTION TO THAT ACCURSED THING, GET OUT OF MY HEAD
but that one reminded me of that ["Snape!" ejaculated Slughorn] tumblr meme
I was ALSO taught the "Never write "said"' thing in Elementary school! Or maybe middle school. But probably Elementary. They were SUPER strict on grammar for some reason back then. They had an entire digital program for making sure that you used correct grammar, and didn't use the same word too many times.
...And yet when I was a kid, I was told that "I'm" didn't need to be capitalized by an actual teacher. :).
I had to pause in disbelief at 'your characters don't talk to you or make their own decisions'. Every finely-tuned scene I had envisioned for months in advance have been derailed _because_ my characters went in a different direction than I had intended, forcing me to play cleanup in order to get them _somewhat_ back on track, if possible.
Once you've got good well-defined characters, you've lost control of them. You can only hope to wrangle them towards the sign that says "The plotline this way ->", but they may end up just following the sign that says "
I once saw someone compare it to being controlled by Remy and I thought it was accurate. Yeah, you're writing the dang thing, but it's out of your hands what the rat on your head does 😂
Yep. I literally had a generic kind of bland hero protagonist derail into a rather fleshed out horrible person who got away with so much that a good bit of the conflicts stem from how alien it is that their actions have consequences to them when I took my eyes off of them for like 5 seconds and. Look, man, I’m not sure if the spirit of storytelling past possessed me to do that one but I am SO glad that happened it makes everything significantly more interesting
It’s really interesting the way different people write and develop their stories to be honest. Making characters is the most fun part for me, so I develop them, and then develop the plot AROUND them.
Sounds like "People doing things"vs "things happening to People" all about agency active vs passive characters
I was also taught the 'said' rule, but I rarely need to use it anyway. Most people upset about it probably have a less complex or less romantic writing style than me. Usually, 'said' comes into the equation when that's the only line of dialogue being expressed, otherwise a full conversation has tons of other better-fitting words to be used or sometimes never used (I don't often even mention "speech" words like reply, say, retort, exclaim, etc, since I write dialogue to fit my characters' body language, not just dialogue for dialogue's sake). Sometimes, the line really is just bland and unimportant, though, so 'said' will still pop up mid-dialogue.
There are no hard rules like that, though. Writers need to find their flow. Uncomplicated, nondescript writing has its own thing going on versus descriptive romantic styles, and there are tons more in between. It's all about figuring out the rules for you, the ones that suit how you write personally. Academic rules are hard-set, but creative writing has a lot more leeway than the technicals want you to believe.
The guy talking about writing being a congruent dream-space experience must never actually have any dreams IRL because, boy, my dreams surely don't flow in any kind of sensical manner. Even the ones that almost make sense are strange and prone to being interjected mid-thought by some other insane process my brain is coping with. So, basically how I write, then :) Maybe it's just because I'm neurodivergent but... I've never heard anyone talk about dreams as making any kind of navigable sense. What a weird person lol
I would say that, in general for all forms of art, all creative advice (barring most ideological, antagonistic or ignorance based critiques) can be made reasonable by simply using the word “could” instead of “should”. What initially is an outright prescriptive statement of the difference between high and low quality, becomes an offering of outside perspective and ideas which can easily be disregarded if inapplicable
Then there’s the no commas thing, and I can think of only two scenarios. Either this student had a terrible run on sentence habit, the teacher told them to practice writing without commas and they took it way to far. Or, this teacher had long, plodding lessons and likely spent most of them complaining, single phrase sentence at a time, about the technique of every piece of writing that they analysed in class XD
3:15 Ok, this is the most confusing one for me. Why did the professor thought that people are incapable of grinning??? I don’t understand. I’ve seen photos of people grinning, so I know for a fact that’s complete bs. I have no idea what the professor is on. I just… It’s like saying that people really don’t “frown” at all. How does a functioning human being think this??? This is completely baffling to me.
I'm guessing that when he sees the word "grin" he thinks of those impossibly wide smiles cartoon characters do??
@@avacadotoast5571 Maybe??? I have no clue.
8:33 Don’t you need unlikable aspects for character development??
"Don't write down your ideas" is a terrible take because I have ADHD so I'll forget something if I don't write it down
Same here 😂
“Show don’t tell” is good advice for animation, illustration, and filming, but how else are you gonna tell the reader in writing? Its the one medium that needs action telling. 😂😂😂
i feel like with a describing it instead of telling straight up?? i mean yeah sometimes that doesnt work but still you can still do show dont tell in writing
@@weaseldog9that's also really good advice. If you're describing a beautiful mansion for example, say what tiles and wood was made to build it and what the windows and chandeliers look like. Don't just say beautiful mansion
That's not what they mean. That peice of advice means like instead of saying "he has depression" you would show that they have depression through their actions, feelings, and dialouge
@@honestlyali28yeah, i don't know why people don't understand that
@@honestlyali28 oh okay my bad i misinterpreted it sorry
I recived the advice from my first grade teacher, "Never start sentences with And." As well as something along the lines of, "If authors make a mistake like that, it's okay because they are professionals." This lead me to have issues writting extremely long sentences.
Maybe useful advice for first graders since they have a tendency to overuse it. But definitely not something to follow as law; I wonder if your teacher ever read the Bible for instance
@@jaojao1768or Cormac McCarthy novels.
3:00 whatever the professor is on, I want some. Just imagine the next day he forgot he told the student this
4:54 Unfortunately, most people who say 'write what you *know*' mean 'write what you *are*', and that does lead to boring writing. But it's really important to make sure you understand what you're writing about, just not necessarily from personal experience
Yeah but don’t get bogged down in the details if it’s stuff your story doesn’t need. At the end of the day, most people will be the same at their core, regardless of vocation, skill level, etc.
Once I saw a nice writing advice: write what you’d like to read. It helped me a lot, cause I always gave up on my work thinking people wouldn’t like it, or no publisher would want to publish it, etc. Then I realized I shouldn’t write thinking about what people like, but what I like. You’d like to write a novel with at least thirty cliches per sentence? Go for it! You’re the one writing, and you make your own rules!
the teacher once tore up my work in an assignment for using "i think" bc it was meant to be presuasive. She didnt name me but i knew it was mine because she quoted my exact full line. Yelling and malding because a 6th grader DARED to use "I think" over "It is" because I heavily valued the moral of not assuming i was right. It got me so bad i have never written "I think" since. I've used think before obv, but just "I think" makes my work feel awful to me
"I believe" or "My educated guess is" are my go-tos now
im near graduating and im still like this dawg
Oof. I have a similar story, a very religious teacher told me that using "I believe" was wrong, as one could only believe in god and, since I didn't do religion class, I didn't.
So I stuck to "I think" or something along the lines of "as far as I know"
@@andheregoesmyname some teachers just shouldnt be teachers dawg. like dont teach if you cant handle kids being kids
7:45 well… I write, produce, sing and make the instrumentals for my own music, I’m good at drawing, I write stories, IM MAKING A CARTOON! So… no, you can have more than 1 talent…
im a writer/artist whos figuring out comics at the moment
but i guess according to that random guy we dont exist
why are my hands transparent, oh no im fading aw
@@MamaTrixxieAsmrI guess I’m still figuring out comics too, but I started making some in January and I like the ones I’ve done so far, lol. As well as comics, I also like to make music and I can sing (but I don’t really do it, anymore). I guess I’m fading away, too. :’)
3:50
To be fair, “show don’t tell” actually isn’t that difficult to pull off in a story. Here’s how I do it:
Don’t simply *tell* your readers what the POV character is feeling. *Show* them by incorporating their feelings into the writing and letting your readers fill in the blanks. For example:
If a character is reacting in an overdramatic way to a mundane situation, make the narration just as overdramatic (but keep dialogue the same).
Or, inversely, if a character is reacting to a crazy situation in a very nonchalant way, make the narration just as nonchalant.
That's just implicit telling...
@@juanmanuelmoramontes3883 So basically you're showing, what's your point? Again, the advice mostly only applied to screenwriting, but it works in a lot of mediums as well. Don't tell people "Timothy was being eaten inside out by a parasite but nobody could tell." Tell people "Timothy screamed at the top of his lungs. His cries of anguish were heard by all around him. He pounded at the floor begging for all of it to end as he writhed in pain on the ground."
The point was basically not to write it as if it was exposition, make it feel natural, like it's happening in real time.
@@arcanine_enjoyer
The difference between "Bob felt hopeless" and "Bob sighed lethargically, as he slumped against the wall"
7:53 Meanwhile professionals that say all humans have at least 5 talents:
I love the variety of this channel, from the writing content to the movie reviews it’s very entertaining and interesting to watch as a writer and a student just needing to destress ❤
"Show, don't tell" proposal: "where explanation fails to argue, prove"
5:50 that sounds fire as hell ngl
I remember when I was in elementary school I had a teacher who told me to never use a character's pronouns when I write. She told me to always use the character's name because using pronouns wasn't specific enough or something like that? It's a very vague memory but I specifically remember being like "wtf"
Imagine with characters who's name is applicable to both genders, how can you tell?
@@dragondelsur5156 Who knows. Half of the stuff I remember from my childhood is the times adults said stupid stuff and I had more common sense than them lol
9:45 This is my nightmare and why I fear “just writing” and then coming back to editing. I fear it will be too disjointed to be salvageable if I try to edit specific portions, and will instead need to be completely rewritten to flow properly
5:35 HOLY CRAP, WAS THE PERSON WHO GAVE THAT ADVICE FROM THE 1900'S?!
8:14 as a Puertorican, we absolutely have leftovers Chinese food for dinner sometimes
I wasnt allowed to use the word "things" or "stuff" in 7th grade - which led to an essay about the town I lived in sound like an Among us fanfic (i used the wird "tasks" way too much)
A gimmick twitter account about roleplaying tips gave a lot of bad advice, but the two that really stuck out to me was "anyone that roleplays as a villain is a bad person in real life" and "rivals to lovers is inherently toxic".
For the former, that goes against the very concept of roleplaying as in most cases you're encouraged to play a role different from your usual self. Not to mention there's a lot of fictional villains we love to hate and we are naturally expected to know that actors playing them aren't literally the same person.
For the latter, there's two major issues. The first is that a rival is a broad archetype and sometimes it's less about being hostile and more about agreeing to disagree (for example, Superman represents hope and Batman represents fear but they're still usually on good terms). The second is that those rivalries that *are* hostile are generally expected to slowly tone it down as their relationship turns into love.
tf sounded like lily orchard
@@vehicleunhandler believe it or not, I wasn't referring to her long list of questionnable tips. This account was specifically designed for roleplaying tips, which makes me react even harsher when the advice is about as bad. For example, an infamous tweet tells you to not roleplay as Gura because she's become an icon for antisemetics. No source is given to back this up and the logic is that they appropiated her so she'll always be one. Even though Gura herself mocks judgemental people.
@@jvts8916 you mean the shark girl?
@@vehicleunhandler yes
Never use said. Like never. In creative writing exercises she would mark of anytime said was used; not if it was over used, not if it could have been more accurately described with another word, EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I left soon after the third time i received a paper back marked down so low over said.
Edit: forgot to mention this wasnt just for dialogue tags. It was every time even if it was a he said she said relay.
I haven’t written in ages but I remember writing being awful when it came to not using propper grammar even if it felt like a a lot
Legit got a reply on this same channel from someone going "Show don't tell"
Like, Idk. Read the room here? I'm not making a movie, I'm writing a book. All I can do is tell.
But 'Show, Don't Tell' is actually good advice?!
You can't just say 'This group is good and this one is bad'. You have to show why!
[Edit] It should be used only when appropriate, but that is still more often than most current literature thinks.
You don't need to describe every detail like Tolkien. You just have to show us motives, personalities, relationships, and lives without talking down to the audience and not trusting us.
Well it's easier said than done when you're on Ao3
@@ChoccyChipthe3rdor if you have to write exactly 100 words
@ChoccyChipthe3rd
Well, if a few adjustments to a simple fairy-tale can do the job, I think a fan-fiction writer can do the same.
[Source: I am a fan-fiction author and reader]
Well, sure, but you don't need multiple pages to describe the exact makeup of a piece of furniture. There's a balance. Show don't tell is useful in certain circumstances, but in others, it can make the reader incredibly bored.
@blank2556
Sorry, I didn't clarify that was hyperbole. My point is that it's possible to use "show don't tell" in excess, and it REALLY irritates people reading. Sometimes, you need to tell so your scenes don't drag out too long. Too much description can be exhausting to get through.
"You should always keep improving your stories, even after they're published."
Put simply: you need to be constantly re-reading your old stories and editing them, even years after they're published, even if you're just a hobbyist writing online. Also:
"Every single work you put out has to be the very best thing you can make."
So every single mistake, every flaw you see in your story, that has to block the publication. Only publish it when it's perfect. And keep editing it afterwards.
For context: this came from someone who was in college to be a professional writer, who was actually less popular in the genre he wanted to write than I was in the genre I was writing (family slice-of-life stuff, show-style fanfic.) Dude tried giving me a lot of 'advice' that ended up crippling my writing for a while, until I simply stopped listening and blocked him in chat. He then complained that I should have consulted with him on the decision to block him. Yeah... lesson learned: don't let 'authorities' get under your skin. Some people aren't looking to give advice; they just want an ego-trip.
Sometimes said is better than making your characters proclaim and yell everything.
‼️ USING SAID IS NOT A CRIME ‼️
if anything, writers who completely avoid that term are red flags
7:38 Did you hear that?
It’s all the comic artists who write and illustrate their own comics disappearing!
Because they don’t exist
oh no im fading awa
"If a character is racked by guilt, he/she needs to become completely passive, otherwise it's unrealistic." - advice about a character who's major trait was switching to "at any cost" mentality in extreme stress situations.
Like that is completely bullshit. Guilt affects people in different ways. A lot of people who double down on their actions do so out of guilt. Not just lacking it. The shame that comes with it can cause people to double down.
So it’s bullshit to say a character racked by guilt ALWAYS has to be passive
6:28 I find it hilarious that they had 2 professors that told them “only write simple sentences” and “only write complex sentences”, meanwhile my professor told my class to write a mixture of both lol
Also, I relate to 7:38 a bit. When I was in middle school, I told my mom I wanted to be an artist when I grew up, and she told me to pick a more realistic career bc that wouldn’t get me any money. Then she discovered a couple years later that I write as a hobby, and she realized that I was pretty decent at it, and she immediately was like “hey, post your fanfiction on Amazon and make money off of it!” And hasn’t stopped bugging me about it since :/
What's interesting to me is that I never really understood the heavy backlash against the statement of "Your characters don't make choices, you do". I feel like this is a case where people just fundamentally approach writing differently. And while I fall on the side of those who agree with the above, I get that there are others who do see it in a different way. Like how some people can actually outline and pull use out of that, but if I do that the story never gets done whereas I can write an entire draft with minimal planning.
my current english teacher says to never use any variations of "dead wall words" as there's a more descriptive word that can be used.
they are: come, go, make, take, [and] want
...yeah...
what about "get"
“I want to make plans for tomorrow, can you come over to help?”
“Henceforth, I request that since I am creating plans for the day after the current day, that you will arrive at my abode to help.”