You taught me something valuable in this one, Matt, whether I ever use it or not. Intuitively, we think that anything "rated A" is best. Who knew that "C-rated" was best in each category?
When I was building decks my local building codes required placing the 4x4 posts into a hole at least 24 inches into the ground , then of setting the posts in concrete. The problem with that is concrete reacts with copper and causes the wood to rot quickly. My solution to that is to put a coating of roofing pitch on the post to ground level . It isolates the post from the concrete and ground moisture.
Good informative video. And thx for linking the pdf info. Also an important overlooked aspect to exterior grade wood is to always face the bark side of the board to the elements. I know it flies in the face of cupping concerns, but a tree is more rot resistant on the outside of the ring growth.
Superb information! The Big Box stores market their treated wood (and other products) with their own grading system which is difficult to understand for the normal customer! Thanks Matt!
I built a deck 12 years ago with PT lumber. Two years ago I had to replace 6 joists and half of the 5/4 deck boards and even some of the hand rails. I will never use treated lumber again. I'm building a new house next year and the deck will be masonry, steel and concrete.
Interesting that pnw treated lumber is mostly brown. Here in the Midwest, Menards "normal" is green, but you can pay extra for "Cedartone" h brown stuff. I had noticed they were straighter and better, didn't realize it was entirely different lumber under there. They do actually carry the end treatment on the shelf, which I did use on my last project.
Good topic. Good information. Maybe you remember about 40 years ago, people were building treated wood frame foundations. Treated wood with direct burial in the soil, backfilled against treated plywood on the exterior. I wonder how those houses have stood the test of time. The advantage was that you could insulate between the studs in the basement and rock over that. Without furring.
Even tho i didn't need it all the material i ordered for my exterior insulation and spacing out the siding from the wall and the siding in pressure treated. 200 meters of 2x2 and 1x2 and also 1200 meters siding. Norway is wet and i don't want mould in my walls, and the old wood im replacing is rotten and attacked by bugs
Questions: for greenhouses where plants and micro biology, growers I watch say do not use pressure treated opinion? But I think wall studs could be treated and trusses as they will have spray from hoses and misters in contact. And other questions is barns where you have animals; can you use these for footers and stalls without causing toxic issues for cattle, pigs, goats or horses?
You need something that isn't treated with arsenic. I believe that is CCA and if I remember correctly that is grade 4 and above. The AC2 (brand name, I forget what the treatment is called) is FDA approved for being in contact with food crops. This is something that he definitely should have brought up.
Arsenic has not been used in treated lumber for many many years. I use lumber treated for ground contact all over my garden and greenhouses with no problem.
When my house was built my carport had UC4A 6x6 post. According to my house plans they were engineered to be INSIDE the concrete 24 inches. Concrete around them. Sure hope they don’t rot!
I’m so old I remember when ‘Wolmanized’ was the generic term we used for treated lumber and it was all rated ground contact or preserved wood foundation.
I wish this video came out in the spring before I built my deck. Two things that I noticed: 1. I asked the lumberyard where I bought my treated lumber if they had some of that paint on preserver, and they looked at me like I was an idiot. They claim that the pressure treating process uses the pressure to drive the chemicals throughout the entire piece of lumber so treating cuts isn’t necessary anymore. 🤷♂️ 2. The pressure treated wood from the lumberyard shrinked and warped like a mofo. It seems like the stuff that I bought from Blowes didn’t shrink as much (5/4 decking specifically). Go figure…
It wasn't dried properly so it worped. I'd say the cuts should be treated. I've seen that done outside of USA for 2x4. It's written in New Zealand's code - according to "Scott Brown" and my unreliable memory :) Anyway, it was strange for the staff to assume that. They should just offer the client a product. The thicker the timber the bigger the need to paint it. I'd personally not risk the repairs over a task that is quick and cheap to do.
Treating cut ends is a requirement for any guarantee from most lumber companies. Why there isn't more access to the cut treatments is beyond me. Also, there are specific treatments for each chemical. I always have a couple cans of each in the supply house.
I've never read the tags. Never even thought to. I always buy ground contact, but I didn't know there was a difference between treating levels or the like. Now I know. Glad I spent the extra on the product I did, but I wish I didn't need galvanized flashing... that's gonna hurt the budget....
Thank you for the information. Lowes pressure treated lumber has an EL2 rating. It's carbon based and does not use copper. It's only suitable for above ground applications. It's like the new kid on the block as far as PT goes. I am thinking of using it for my deck railings. Any experience with this lumber or recommendation?
@@user-fx4qz8pt3w Hem-fir is another one of those weird lumber classifications, like SPF. Hem-fir is either western hemlock, or one of several western true firs (Noble, Grand, etc.). Specifically, it does not include Doug Fir, which isn't a true fir. All of the Hem-firs have similar characteristics.
Very detailed. My experience is it is trash today. The outdoor stuff 50 years ago is still there. The same stuff 20 years ago today is rotten. The only thing that lasts are railroad ties. The in ground stairs I built in cement are still in great shape 55 years in. Wood is mostly worthless if it is ground contact! Regardless.
@@barryomahony4983, You should be more concerned about all the chemicals you spray on your grass or the ones your neighbor does or the golf course uses, because that's the crap that leaches into the ground water, not creosote.
My shed foundation failed miserably after eight years, so this time I’m going to use concrete piers and try to figure out some ventilation technique all the while concerned about rodents and rabbits, not gaining entry!
Probably different in different locations but here in Nashville,Tn. A 2" × 10" x 12' pressure treatment pine board is $65.00 a 2" x 10" x 12' Western red cedar board is $100.00
At least in my community, Lowes does not sell any certfied ground contact lumber. Remember to check the tags. Home Depot does sell long term rated ground contact.
You mentioned issues with metal fasteners and flashing used with these products. Obviously the concern is galvanic corrosion due to the copper in the treatment. Would the use of copper flashing resolve this problem and satisfy code?
My basement is already framed. The GC did not use pressure treated frame. Can I use anything that can we painted on so I don’t need to dismantle all of it?
Black locust is naturally good for ground contact, very tough wood. If not for the locust borer beetle black - which only attacks living trees, black locus would be a widely grown commercial tree. Its commercially grown overseas where the beetle is not present.
Even better (for posts or piers), bodark (Bois-D'arc), aka osage orange [Maclura Pomifera]. It generally doesn't grow very straight, but used to be you couldn't get a mortgage on a house in Texas if the piers under the floor weren't made from it.
Do you know is all Home Depot Outdoor Essential wood pressure treated? They list a Cedar fence picket but it doesn’t say pressure treated in the description. I’m hoping it’s not. Thanks
I wonder if cedar could be an alternative if you didn’t want to use a chemically treated board. I know arsenic hasn’t been used in 15yrs or so but still.
@@BK-fy2xi Code here allows for "decay-resistant heartwood of redwood, black locust, or cedars" for sill plates on concrete. Wood in contact directly with the ground and supporting a structure must be pressure treated.
well, I definitely learned somethings, didn't realize there were actual marine grades of PT lumber, and I never knew the reason I'd, very occasionally, see the brown boards with dimples, I live in Mississippi and we grow a lot of southern yellow pine, so I'm now wondering just where those non-southern yellow pine pressure treated boards I've seen came from.
I’m in the Pacific Northwest where they have all those ugly marks in the pressure treated wood. Wish there was a more aesthetically pleasing alternative that stood up to the rainy weather
Would any of those be safe for garden use? My home Depot has weather shield. All they have on the tag is ground contact/ general use. 0.15 PCF micronized copper azole compounds.
Stay away IMO. If you wouldn’t pour the chemicals inside the wood over your soil don’t use it. It’s more expensive to use a naturally resistant wood like cedar but worth the piece of mind. If you want to save money you could always just use pine, fir, hemlock framing lumber and replace every 10 years.
@@Freedacarlo I mostly would use it for the top on my dragon fruit trellis. They don't really touch the wood too much with roots. I do appreciate your advice. I definitely won't be using pressure treated wood that come in contact with the soil
If you can find it you can use cypress as it by nature resist water born rotting. Some of the South American hardwoods are reported as rot resistent but very high priced.
Cedar, redwood, fir, hemlock. I’ve seen all of these last a long time in decks. It’s more about your details and flashing (ability to dry) than anything.
Styrofoam blocks filled with concrete or just concrete. There’s also a company that makes something called “superior walls” that are cast concrete, insulated and have nailing strips for sheet rock and holes for electrical. I have worked on too many houses with bad foundations. The foundation is the house.
@@boxelder9167 Yes you're speaking of ICF basements or regular concrete basement in general. I know ALL about that. I'm specifically curious what level of pressure treatment would be required to build on wood foundation.
making a trellis and wanting good ground contact wood information, finds this guy, thinks about building homes, finds this guy, home repairs, finds this guy
I mentioned it below in a reply but I feel like the market needs to be educated. First, people should forget the term "Pressure Treated Wood". Its generic and leads to the problems everyone seems to have. You don't need "Pressure Treated Wood" what you need is to figure out the UC rating required and ask for that specifically. This PDF should be with you any time you head to the Big Box or the lumber yard and actually ask for what you need. We all need to stop using generic terms like Pressure Treated or Wolmanized. If you need some 2x4x8 for fence posts, ask for UC4A (or better) and not just a "Pressure Treated 2x4".
Thanks for the info. I have a deck repair project where the supporting lumber (not the surface IPE) has deteriorated around a bromide spa. It's NOT ground contact (it's on concrete ground posts), but obviously the salt water exposure (though occasional) killed it in a mere 7 years. Which grade would y'all recommend for this? Do I really need to go to Marine C? (This is in Austin)
Some of these modern copper based treated woods can be hard in fasteners. Be sure of what you use. The old (CCA)marine grade with sodium arsenate is very hard to find and only allowed for used as round stick or DOT applications. Most all square stick dimensional lumber is now a copper based treatment. I had termites devour some 3A stuff I had sitting on the ground on my property in East TN. I won’t consider less than 4B. I hate doing things twice!
Matt, with the alternative ways of placing treated boards below ground,ex., inserting treated boards below ground in a bucket with below ground expanding foam, would it not be wise to never place treated boards below ground without protection?
Sorry dumb question - why not just have the marine grade treatment for all wood that needs to go into the ground? That way there's no confusion or danger that you got the wrong treated wood.
Outstanding episode Matt, like you always used to produce. Unfortunately most of the newer stuff is nothing but advertising for needless, overpriced garbage from your sponsors. Hopefully we'll see more like this one in the future.
When I was a kid, my dad decided to build a wooden fence. Instead of purchasing treated wood for the posts, he coated the posts in used motor-oil, and let them dry in the sun, slightly off the ground. Once they had dried, he have them a second coat. The fence lasted a few years before my mom had it taken down because it looked quite ugly (this was a after they separated). Anyways, I was wondering two things. One, does this actually work? Two, how bad is this for the environment? We're talking about used motor-oil, so it obviously can't be good. But, just how bad is it?
Used motor oil is full of heavy metals, and these will eventually leach into the ground. While it might work on preserving the wood, it'll also work on preserving your ground water. :D
My rule of thumb is that none of them are suitable for a food garden. I treat 2x lumber with raw linseed oil before I install it around a garden. And, no, I don't expect it to last more than 10-15 years, so I make it relatively easy to replace pieces.
When they banned the use of CCA in residential construction, the new chemicals that replaced it with were a lot more expensive. So the manufacturers really dialed down on the amount of chemicals they used. Those old dark green 0.6 pcf CCA-treated foundation grade posts never rotted. I had some 40+ year old pole barns built with them in a very wet climate that are still just fine.
eh, as long as I'm getting ground contact rated I generally haven't had any major issues, but use above ground rated lumber within sight of ground and it seems to rot quicker than a tooth on an all sugar diet.
I actually think the issue is people ask for "PT lumber" when that was a construct of the CCA days and there was only one thing. Instead, as this video shows, we should be asking for UC3A, UC4A, etc. based on the actual installation requirements.
I never paid attention to those labels once buying wood, now I know why I have to re-do some projects over time LOL Thank You Matt!
You taught me something valuable in this one, Matt, whether I ever use it or not. Intuitively, we think that anything "rated A" is best. Who knew that "C-rated" was best in each category?
Yup
When I was building decks my local building codes required placing the 4x4 posts into a hole at least 24 inches into the ground , then of setting the posts in concrete. The problem with that is concrete reacts with copper and causes the wood to rot quickly. My solution to that is to put a coating of roofing pitch on the post to ground level . It isolates the post from the concrete and ground moisture.
I've worked with some pretty big Azols in my time...
Good informative video. And thx for linking the pdf info. Also an important overlooked aspect to exterior grade wood is to always face the bark side of the board to the elements. I know it flies in the face of cupping concerns, but a tree is more rot resistant on the outside of the ring growth.
Would it still be that way if the bark is gone?
I always like these building basics episodes. May be spending a short episode about Accoya vs. pressured treated vs. teak in the future?
I know it's just a wall in a WIP house, but that's a great backdrop
Thank you. I had no idea i have been using wood not treated enough.
As always, Excellent content! Can’t express how much I value your channel.
Superb information! The Big Box stores market their treated wood (and other products) with their own grading system which is difficult to understand for the normal customer! Thanks Matt!
That's just marketing nonsense. The end tags still list the UC data
Super informative, A+ on the in depth video. Great guide to picking material in the future.
I drove by and looked at an old 40’ x 16’ deck we built in 1993 with CCA PT lumber. Still there and looks pretty good!
The problem is if you built the same deck today and came back in 30 years there be nothing left of it they don't treat wood as well as they use to
I built a deck 12 years ago with PT lumber. Two years ago I had to replace 6 joists and half of the 5/4 deck boards and even some of the hand rails. I will never use treated lumber again. I'm building a new house next year and the deck will be masonry, steel and concrete.
Interesting that pnw treated lumber is mostly brown. Here in the Midwest, Menards "normal" is green, but you can pay extra for "Cedartone" h brown stuff. I had noticed they were straighter and better, didn't realize it was entirely different lumber under there. They do actually carry the end treatment on the shelf, which I did use on my last project.
Good topic. Good information.
Maybe you remember about 40 years ago, people were building treated wood frame foundations. Treated wood with direct burial in the soil, backfilled against treated plywood on the exterior.
I wonder how those houses have stood the test of time. The advantage was that you could insulate between the studs in the basement and rock over that. Without furring.
Yes, those foundations were all built with lumber and plywood treated to 0.6pcf CCA, and stainless steel fasteners. You never hear about them anymore.
@@barryomahony4983 Exactly. Not that they do them any more. But how did they perform?
In addition to galvanized fasteners you should only use coated screws with treated lumber. Uncoated screws will be eaten away in just a year or two.
Once again Matt, great info; short and sweet, thanks.
Even tho i didn't need it all the material i ordered for my exterior insulation and spacing out the siding from the wall and the siding in pressure treated.
200 meters of 2x2 and 1x2 and also 1200 meters siding.
Norway is wet and i don't want mould in my walls, and the old wood im replacing is rotten and attacked by bugs
Questions: for greenhouses where plants and micro biology, growers I watch say do not use pressure treated opinion? But I think wall studs could be treated and trusses as they will have spray from hoses and misters in contact. And other questions is barns where you have animals; can you use these for footers and stalls without causing toxic issues for cattle, pigs, goats or horses?
You need something that isn't treated with arsenic. I believe that is CCA and if I remember correctly that is grade 4 and above. The AC2 (brand name, I forget what the treatment is called) is FDA approved for being in contact with food crops. This is something that he definitely should have brought up.
Arsenic has not been used in treated lumber for many many years. I use lumber treated for ground contact all over my garden and greenhouses with no problem.
@@firecloud77 remind me to never eat at your house
@@firecloud77 I wouldn't chance it.
@@firecloud77 thank you
When my house was built my carport had UC4A 6x6 post. According to my house plans they were engineered to be INSIDE the concrete 24 inches. Concrete around them. Sure hope they don’t rot!
Thank you for sharing Great Information in a Timely manner!
I’m so old I remember when ‘Wolmanized’ was the generic term we used for treated lumber and it was all rated ground contact or preserved wood foundation.
Your video was so helpful, thank you!
I wish this video came out in the spring before I built my deck.
Two things that I noticed:
1. I asked the lumberyard where I bought my treated lumber if they had some of that paint on preserver, and they looked at me like I was an idiot. They claim that the pressure treating process uses the pressure to drive the chemicals throughout the entire piece of lumber so treating cuts isn’t necessary anymore. 🤷♂️
2. The pressure treated wood from the lumberyard shrinked and warped like a mofo. It seems like the stuff that I bought from Blowes didn’t shrink as much (5/4 decking specifically). Go figure…
It wasn't dried properly so it worped.
I'd say the cuts should be treated. I've seen that done outside of USA for 2x4. It's written in New Zealand's code - according to "Scott Brown" and my unreliable memory :)
Anyway, it was strange for the staff to assume that. They should just offer the client a product. The thicker the timber the bigger the need to paint it.
I'd personally not risk the repairs over a task that is quick and cheap to do.
Treating cut ends is a requirement for any guarantee from most lumber companies. Why there isn't more access to the cut treatments is beyond me. Also, there are specific treatments for each chemical. I always have a couple cans of each in the supply house.
Very helpful and informative information. Thank you for making this video.
I've never read the tags. Never even thought to. I always buy ground contact, but I didn't know there was a difference between treating levels or the like.
Now I know. Glad I spent the extra on the product I did, but I wish I didn't need galvanized flashing... that's gonna hurt the budget....
Thank you for the information. Lowes pressure treated lumber has an EL2 rating. It's carbon based and does not use copper. It's only suitable for above ground applications. It's like the new kid on the block as far as PT goes. I am thinking of using it for my deck railings. Any experience with this lumber or recommendation?
Matt, you didn’t mention copper flashing. Would that be a good material against PT lumber considering they use a copper based treatment?
Thanks Matt this is exactly what I needed to know
Well if it isn't matt Risinger again, explaining why a critical element of my home is under engineered! Lol
Can you use copper flashing?
Even here in the Pacific NW, PT Doug Fir is pretty rare since even with incising, it doesn't absorb very well. Hem-fir is common.
Thanks. I always thought hem-fir lumber meant it could be either hemlock or fir. Didn't know hemlock was a fir.
@@user-fx4qz8pt3w Hem-fir is another one of those weird lumber classifications, like SPF. Hem-fir is either western hemlock, or one of several western true firs (Noble, Grand, etc.). Specifically, it does not include Doug Fir, which isn't a true fir. All of the Hem-firs have similar characteristics.
Very detailed. My experience is it is trash today. The outdoor stuff 50 years ago is still there. The same stuff 20 years ago today is rotten. The only thing that lasts are railroad ties. The in ground stairs I built in cement are still in great shape 55 years in. Wood is mostly worthless if it is ground contact! Regardless.
Agree 100% The new stuff is junk. I now coat any 4x4's, 6x6's with rubberized roof coating that has any dirt contact.
Not many people these days want to have railroad ties soaked with toxic creosote around their family.
@@barryomahony4983, You should be more concerned about all the chemicals you spray on your grass or the ones your neighbor does or the golf course uses, because that's the crap that leaches into the ground water, not creosote.
My neighbor used railroad ties on a retaining wall 14 years ago, and it is falling apart. I wont use wood on the outside of my next house.
My shed foundation failed miserably after eight years, so this time I’m going to use concrete piers and try to figure out some ventilation technique all the while concerned about rodents and rabbits, not gaining entry!
This guy is underrated
What's the cost comparison of 'B' grade vs Marine vs using a natural wood like cedar?
Probably different in different locations but here in Nashville,Tn. A 2" × 10" x 12' pressure treatment pine board is $65.00 a 2" x 10" x 12' Western red cedar board is $100.00
What about on a basement concrete floor as a base plate?
Excellent information, expertly communicated
At least in my community, Lowes does not sell any certfied ground contact lumber. Remember to check the tags. Home Depot does sell long term rated ground contact.
Matt, what's your opinion on pressure treated vs thermally modified wood? Which is more rot resistant for decks or fencing?
I just finished a backyard fence project. Should I treat my post cut-ends even if I put caps on them? Like your channel Matt!
Always good with belt and suspenders ;)
You mentioned issues with metal fasteners and flashing used with these products. Obviously the concern is galvanic corrosion due to the copper in the treatment. Would the use of copper flashing resolve this problem and satisfy code?
My basement is already framed. The GC did not use pressure treated frame. Can I use anything that can we painted on so I don’t need to dismantle all of it?
Great information would have liked to know just a bit more about the chemicals used in the treatment. How safe is it to humans, animals and plants.
Thank you for the info, this helps with my project.
Great information. Thank you very much for sharing!
Black locust is naturally good for ground contact, very tough wood. If not for the locust borer beetle black - which only attacks living trees, black locus would be a widely grown commercial tree. Its commercially grown overseas where the beetle is not present.
Even better (for posts or piers), bodark (Bois-D'arc), aka osage orange [Maclura Pomifera]. It generally doesn't grow very straight, but used to be you couldn't get a mortgage on a house in Texas if the piers under the floor weren't made from it.
@@kevinfoster010 You mean a hedge apple tree? Or horse apple tree? ;)
@@bluenadas Yup.
@@kevinfoster010 So many names
@@kevinfoster010 I grew up on a property that had a hedge of osage orange
Do you know is all Home Depot Outdoor Essential wood pressure treated? They list a Cedar fence picket but it doesn’t say pressure treated in the description. I’m hoping it’s not. Thanks
I learned a ton thanks for the video!
Super informative and all relevant info
Very helpful. Thank you Matt.
What the heck is going on with that corner railing post @ 5:22???
I learn soo much from this chanel
If you have learned something from him you better do a check up from the neck up.Man he is a good guy but don't know what's going on by experience.
If you have learned something from him you better do a check up from the neck up.Man he is a good guy but don't know what's going on by experience.
Can you build the entire deck out of ground contact pressure treated lumber?????
Excellent video! Thanks!
Great content, Brother. Have a great weekend 👍
What about VOC's?
So, for a sill plate on a concrete slab floor, what class does one use?
I wonder if cedar could be an alternative if you didn’t want to use a chemically treated board. I know arsenic hasn’t been used in 15yrs or so but still.
UC4A, which is available at big box stores.
@@BK-fy2xi Code here allows for "decay-resistant heartwood of redwood, black locust, or cedars" for sill plates on concrete. Wood in contact directly with the ground and supporting a structure must be pressure treated.
UC4A as a standard, go with a B or C if you can find it/afford it
UC4A would work, but if you can find UC4B use it!
No lumber store in my area can or willing to order uc4b treated lumber.
Are there the same levels of protection for “kdat “ lumber?
well, I definitely learned somethings, didn't realize there were actual marine grades of PT lumber, and I never knew the reason I'd, very occasionally, see the brown boards with dimples, I live in Mississippi and we grow a lot of southern yellow pine, so I'm now wondering just where those non-southern yellow pine pressure treated boards I've seen came from.
Thank Matt very helpful !!
Great info thank you!
I see a number of construction and deck screws that label "Approved for treated lumber". Thoughts? They aren't galvanized.
They are likely coated. Hot dip isn't a hard requirement. Ensuring they don't deteriorate is the main qualification.
i heard aluminum should not be put against fresh treated lumber or it will react. Does fresh concrete react with fresh treated lumber?
Great info. Thanks
I’m in the Pacific Northwest where they have all those ugly marks in the pressure treated wood. Wish there was a more aesthetically pleasing alternative that stood up to the rainy weather
How about treating wood also with fire resistance.
Would any of those be safe for garden use?
My home Depot has weather shield. All they have on the tag is ground contact/ general use. 0.15 PCF micronized copper azole compounds.
Stay away IMO. If you wouldn’t pour the chemicals inside the wood over your soil don’t use it. It’s more expensive to use a naturally resistant wood like cedar but worth the piece of mind. If you want to save money you could always just use pine, fir, hemlock framing lumber and replace every 10 years.
@@Freedacarlo I mostly would use it for the top on my dragon fruit trellis. They don't really touch the wood too much with roots. I do appreciate your advice. I definitely won't be using pressure treated wood that come in contact with the soil
@@Freedacarlo I agree and I use those woods and treat the pieces with raw linseed oil to extend their life.
How does it get tackled in CA now - you can't recycle or landfill PT lumber so what are the options available for protection that isn't PT based?
If you can find it you can use cypress as it by nature resist water born rotting. Some of the South American hardwoods are reported as rot resistent but very high priced.
Cedar, redwood, fir, hemlock. I’ve seen all of these last a long time in decks. It’s more about your details and flashing (ability to dry) than anything.
Good info Matt thank you .
Question - what grade would you use for wood foundations? I'm talking full basement wood foundations (I know you don't do basements in Texas).
Styrofoam blocks filled with concrete or just concrete. There’s also a company that makes something called “superior walls” that are cast concrete, insulated and have nailing strips for sheet rock and holes for electrical.
I have worked on too many houses with bad foundations. The foundation is the house.
@@boxelder9167 Yes you're speaking of ICF basements or regular concrete basement in general. I know ALL about that. I'm specifically curious what level of pressure treatment would be required to build on wood foundation.
How about pink fire treated?
Matt - Have you seen the Treated LVL from Pacific Woodtech? It's a beautiful product, let me know. Thank you, Chadd from BPI
making a trellis and wanting good ground contact wood information, finds this guy, thinks about building homes, finds this guy, home repairs, finds this guy
I mentioned it below in a reply but I feel like the market needs to be educated.
First, people should forget the term "Pressure Treated Wood". Its generic and leads to the problems everyone seems to have. You don't need "Pressure Treated Wood" what you need is to figure out the UC rating required and ask for that specifically.
This PDF should be with you any time you head to the Big Box or the lumber yard and actually ask for what you need. We all need to stop using generic terms like Pressure Treated or Wolmanized. If you need some 2x4x8 for fence posts, ask for UC4A (or better) and not just a "Pressure Treated 2x4".
What sort of lifespan can one expect with UC4B?
My lumber yard gave me a 100 year warranty with my UC4B treated lumber. It should outlive you.
As technology improves and gets cheaper do you think carbon fiber will replace wood in framing or another building material in homes?
Very interesting idea!
It would likely/ have to, be able to match the tensile strength and $ of wood for the little guy to make it common place.
This is very very useful video. If love more info videos like this
When I built a house with a wood foundation, the grade was FDN. It was a Higher concentration of CCA. Is that not a grade any more?
I remember that stamped on plywood.
FDN was a grademark from the American Wood Preservers Bureau (AWPB). That organization ceased to exist in 1993.
Also AWPA now specifies UC4B for PWF applications
Thanks for the info. I have a deck repair project where the supporting lumber (not the surface IPE) has deteriorated around a bromide spa. It's NOT ground contact (it's on concrete ground posts), but obviously the salt water exposure (though occasional) killed it in a mere 7 years. Which grade would y'all recommend for this? Do I really need to go to Marine C? (This is in Austin)
That sounds to me like it has a drying issue. What was the original grade of preservative?
@@bluenadas LifeWood MicroPro SCS-EPP-01699 Micronized Copper Azole - Above Ground
Based on the fact there is a spa I would treat it as a ground contact location and replace it with UC4A at a minimum and UC4B if I can find it
@@bluenadas Thanks.
Wood life CopperCoat on Amazon,
$21.82 for a Quart.
$55.00 for a Gallon.
I thought that sounded to good to be true!
I jumped on Amazon so quick to buy a couple gallons if so.
@@woodworks351
Less expensive at Menards
$17.99 regular price.
@@mister-action1 $15.99 after rebate. Thanks, much appreciated for that.
@@woodworks351
You're welcome,!
No carpenter has told me that my entire life! 😂
Some of these modern copper based treated woods can be hard in fasteners. Be sure of what you use. The old (CCA)marine grade with sodium arsenate is very hard to find and only allowed for used as round stick or DOT applications. Most all square stick dimensional lumber is now a copper based treatment. I had termites devour some 3A stuff I had sitting on the ground on my property in East TN. I won’t consider less than 4B. I hate doing things twice!
Thank you.
This was really interesting. I always just assumed all pressure treated wood was equal
Matt, with the alternative ways of placing treated boards below ground,ex., inserting treated boards below ground in a bucket with below ground expanding foam, would it not be wise to never place treated boards below ground without protection?
I do believe he talks about that
I coat my fence posts with a thick coat of automotive rubberized undercoating probability will never rot
You cannot use “thicker grade aluminum flashing” PT will corrode aluminum of any thickness.
Sorry dumb question - why not just have the marine grade treatment for all wood that needs to go into the ground? That way there's no confusion or danger that you got the wrong treated wood.
$$$$
UC4B, 4C at a minimum for me
UC5 A,B,C
Outstanding episode Matt, like you always used to produce.
Unfortunately most of the newer stuff is nothing but advertising for needless, overpriced garbage from your sponsors.
Hopefully we'll see more like this one in the future.
When I was a kid, my dad decided to build a wooden fence. Instead of purchasing treated wood for the posts, he coated the posts in used motor-oil, and let them dry in the sun, slightly off the ground. Once they had dried, he have them a second coat. The fence lasted a few years before my mom had it taken down because it looked quite ugly (this was a after they separated). Anyways, I was wondering two things.
One, does this actually work?
Two, how bad is this for the environment? We're talking about used motor-oil, so it obviously can't be good. But, just how bad is it?
Used motor oil is full of heavy metals, and these will eventually leach into the ground. While it might work on preserving the wood, it'll also work on preserving your ground water. :D
But, is it pressure treated lumber toxic to the environment?
Should have taken another minute or 2 to talk about which ones are treated with arsenic and which ones are safe for contact with food crops.
My rule of thumb is that none of them are suitable for a food garden. I treat 2x lumber with raw linseed oil before I install it around a garden. And, no, I don't expect it to last more than 10-15 years, so I make it relatively easy to replace pieces.
Cu8 is FDA approved for agriculture.
The new pressure treated lumber they sell today is junk. The older stuff never rotted but the new stuff does.
When they banned the use of CCA in residential construction, the new chemicals that replaced it with were a lot more expensive. So the manufacturers really dialed down on the amount of chemicals they used. Those old dark green 0.6 pcf CCA-treated foundation grade posts never rotted. I had some 40+ year old pole barns built with them in a very wet climate that are still just fine.
eh, as long as I'm getting ground contact rated I generally haven't had any major issues, but use above ground rated lumber within sight of ground and it seems to rot quicker than a tooth on an all sugar diet.
I actually think the issue is people ask for "PT lumber" when that was a construct of the CCA days and there was only one thing. Instead, as this video shows, we should be asking for UC3A, UC4A, etc. based on the actual installation requirements.
You can still find CCA in round stock. But not residential dimensional lumber. It can be special ordered for DOT use.
@@denismguitar1552 it’s actually readily available for commercial purposes. But yes, banned in residential use for something like 15 years
Thanks for this informative vid bro 😎
Shout outs to my peeps in the OBX Nc
Stay 🏝 beachee 🏖
"several different kellers" Yep. Definitely a yinzer. As a fellow yinzer, I get called out for saying keller instead of color all the time
It'd be cool to build an entire house of UC5 and Rockwool just to see how long it lasts
No mention of 50/50 Diesel/used motor oil sprayed on and left to dry. Wonder what rating that gets on the UC scale...
I did not know this
Fantastic video. So many new brain wrinkles:)
I always thought pressure treated was for bugs/termites. Not waterproofing
It's primarily a fungicide