Space Control Isn't Just the Tank's Job | OW2 Reddit Questions #34
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2024
- Here we go again, KarQ is back at it again, answering questions on /r/OverwatchUniversity.
Definitely inspired by WIRED's Tech Support.
All of the KarQives content are live edits from the stream at / karq
00:00 - Intro
00:09 - Am I crazy or is Tracer not easy at all?
01:33 - good targets to nano when we have no ults?
03:34 - What to do when your DPS can't counter flyers?
05:56 - Is there ANY way to avoid being hacked by Sombra?
08:54 - Accepting that I am just bad at the game. What should I do?
12:38 - What would you nerf for your main?
14:41 - Space control isn't just the job of the tank.
16:56 - Orisa ult vs Orisa ult - what's the strategy?
18:06 - No more healbot Lifeweaver?
20:15 - How to effectively use Ramattra?
21:43 - Outro
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Happy birthday! Thanks for the great content!
Ya
The Tank space article is soooooo true. I have had so many people flame because they didn't learn how the game changed in OW2. When there were 2 tanks, they could hold space, make space, and peel. Now depending on the game type and/side and enemy comp dps will need to apply forward pressure, flanking pressure, or peel.
Ever since they went 5v5 I’ve just kinda took the mindset that tank is basically another dps. You can’t really rely on the tank to always be protecting you. Especially if they are playing an off tank like ball or hog. Once I took this mindset OW2 became a lot easier to play.
Sombra main here: the best counter is playing together, peeling for your squishies, and randomly spraying to check for us. If a team is doing 2 of these things well, I’ll usually swap
Right? Lol like what’s a sombra gonna do against 5 people. I’ll usually swap to Winston and just hug my team till the sombra switches.
I do this all the time, and the majority of heroes can do it but I've found shotgun heroes to be the best for it. Any time I'm playing Reaper v Sombra, a single pellet can bring them out of invis, and sometimes I'm lowkey afraid of being accused of cheating because Reaper's spread is just so perfect for catching Sombras.
@@oceanman4166 The amount of fear when you accidentally shoot a sombra out of invisibility whilst trying to shoot someone behind her 😂 hackusations are scary these days
To add on to the Sombra question, play close to your teammates!
She really likes to assassinate isolated targets so if you have a fellow support or a DPS to help turn around and shoot Sombra, she’ll struggle much more to secure the kill or to even escape safely
Furthermore, fade cleanses so if you immediately fade you can avoid DOT if hit by virus. Even if you are hacked, the ability silence is .5 seconds shorter than virus so you can still mitigate ~23 damage if necessary.
Sounds good, only works 50% of the time. My teammates don’t have brain capacity to even know there’s a sombra right behind them
@@xTurtlePower. Most support duels with sombra are on equal grounds (aka a skill matchup), a lot of them even have the upper hand (kiri, bap, moira). so even if your teammates completely ignore her, pressuring her back should be enough more often than not. Pressuring does not mean "go all in to kill her" btw. It's something more along the lines of "standing your ground" and not being an easy prey.
If I play sombra I almost never hack moira. I try to find easier charackter to kill
The biggest problem imo is people are just so obviously during matches. They are so kill hungry they forget sombra is around. So even if you are with the team unless Youre teammates turn around to help you you might get screwed. Idk how many times I’ve died with two teammates standing right next to me oblivious that I’m fighting a sombra until I die and say “thanks” 🤣
I always find it funny how people still don’t understand that everyone’s stats are tied together. If one player has loads of elims, everyone has loads of elims.
If the team aren’t able to kill anything collectively, of course the tank will be just blown up over and over again without being able to do any damage lol
You can almost always tell the tempo of the game by number of tank deaths/elims. Usually the one with the higher K/D is the one that is on the winning team. The snowball effect of the entire team is pretty noticable.
@@Jordan-dg8tp if the DPS are good, the tank will have all the elims because the tank can just do whatever they want.
6:47 Hello. A mexican here. "Qué onda" is a greeting, is like to say "What's up?"
As a Tank and Support player who also plays Sombra, I tend to watch out for her when I know someone on the enemy team is playing her. I tend to try to play heroes that can weather being hacked and see if I can run her off. A lot of Sombra players will actually run if you go at them, allowing you to back off of push at them. Also, a lot of Sombra's forget that when they're too close to an enemy (as in, the circle that's around them has enemies in it) there is an audio cue that sounds like an electric/electronic "hissing" noise. If you hear that, she's *really* close to you and you should be ready for her.
My general rule of thumb for dealing with her is:
Kill feed: Has she killed someone? Who? Where was their victim in relation to you?
Can you actually see her yourself?
Dis she die? If so, roughly how long ago? Take into account how far their spawn point is to you
If none of the above applies to you, she's probably behind you. Get ready.
How about with Weaver, him landing hits with his thorns charges up his healing, X amount of dmg fully charges his healing, with an easy way of doing a burst heal from that without swapping or increasing his swap time and still hold the charge?
Happy birthday, dude. Thanks for the great content and the good vibes
Happy birthday man! I wish you many victories in the future!
3:35 There's a common misconception on how to deal with fliers and people usually go straight up to 'pick all the hitscans'. Most of the time it is far easier (and better) to pick characters that abuse the remaining ground heroes and force the pocket out of Echo/Pharah. Once not being pocketed, any hero with a bit of range can take them out.
EDIT: adding a bit to this, the idea here is to put them on uncomfortable situations. Fliers thrive on their sustainability while pocketed. When unpocketed they are on a clock make a play, it's boom or bust. If you let them starve on resources by controlling ground you win on the attrition over time. But of course, like any other strategy, they might be capable to work around it if they're skilled (or smart) enough.
yeah i find either mostly ignoring the pharah mercy or going all in with a 5 man dive to be the best way to deal with them. it's kinda like hog and zarya where you either need to go all out or all in on them, if you don't commit to either your team will just sit in choke and eat a bunch of damage which is why those heroes can also be so dominant in ranked
Yeah agreed to an extent and hitscan unless they are like insanely cracked aim are not killing a flyer who's equally as skilled, but imo having an illari maintain pressure on the pharah or echo can ensure they aren't getting in spam damage for free also your team has to not play as grouped vs the pharah.
@@DxXNA pressuring the fliers is good and all, but I opt for consistency in most of those cases. The best option is to try to work with the team: if your team is hard focusing ground, do it too; if they're hard focusing air, do it too. Teams crumble against fliers when they are trying to do everything all at once as single players.
That doesn't mean you'll need all the coordination in the world, just enough to know and commit to the same strategy.
EDIT: this works similarly against snipers to an extent.
That's the best idea if you have a good flier on the enemy team. If it's a pharmacy up there, that means you technically have a 3v5 on the ground. Punish the ground players and make the mercy come down. Now you have a solo flier that has to be safer and cannot provide nearly as much pressure.
I think Lifeweaver's next heal be able to sort of "pre-charge" based on damage would be a good change that can help him balance. Keep the swapping the same way it is now, but if you deal a certain amount (maybe like 100?) damage will make your next heal within 5 seconds be fully charged without needing to charge it. And maybe even have the next few thorns you shoot after a maxed out heal do a little extra damage? Encourage swapping back and forth as much as possible.
So, ideally, the play pattern is: deal some damage, heal for max charge, deal some damage, heal for max charge, rinse and repeat.
HAPPY BURFDAY DUDEEEEEE!!!!!! that was obnoxious but idgaf cuz your channel brings me joy, thanks!
Happy Birthday! Thanks for the great videos!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY BRO LOVE THE VIDSSS
As a ball player when I hear that Sombra sounds I always do 180 fast swing while pressing m1 hoping it will break the animation, it doesn't work all the time but that's the counter measure for me and if you play Moira you will definitely able to cancel the hack like that
Also tell your teammates to do Sombra check on unsuspecting angle once in a while
as a ball player when i hear sombra i grapple and swing straight to spawn to pick another tank
Happy Birthday KarQ!
Happy birthday, KarQ! 🎉🎉
Happy birthday KarQ!
Happy birthday KarQ! 🎂
Happy birthday Karq! 🎂
14:00 what about adding a CD for suzu after swiftstepping? So you can still counter jq ult or nade, but you actually have to think
Happy Birthday KarQ
Im a masters support since early ow1 and i recently decided to give dps an honest try. Currently low gold. The amount of pressure i can apply by going on some crazy unhinged giga flank as sojourn and making the entire team turn around while my team rolls through choke uncontested is scary. Low ranks dont communicate at all. Nobody peels for supports, both dps constantly ignore the 5v4 and chase me in thier backline, Rein will shield me instead of my 4 teammates (as he should). I would honestly take a third dps in silver/gold over a tank. Low rank tanks dont press W anyway.
Happy birthday dude
Hey KarQ, Mercy and I have the same birthday! Happy birthday KarQ!
First content creator I've watched who shares my bday. Nice!
happy birthday! :D
@@3amAfterlife Thx
For the Nano -- My experience is just give it to someone - even if they don't have their ult when you send it, they will most likely get it or get real close to it WITH the nano.
Happy Birthday!
For sombra: if you are on sombra my favorite thing to do is stay behind for a few seconds around my supports if I haven’t seen sombra in a while. no one really expects it and it will force the sombra to switch up her playtsyle
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! 🥳
happy birthday, king
Happy Birthday!!!
Happy birthday ! 🎉
happy birthday!!
Happy birthday!
that spanish moment at like 7:00 is very relatable, i only remember that specific thing from duolingo aswell T_T
I only knew it was "¿Qué Onda?" because I asked ChatGPT what Spanish word or phrase sounded like "keyonda" and was maybe used as a greeting. 'Cause it stuck out to me hearing Venture using it much less menacing situations.
Will that orisa strat still work after tomorrows patch?
Lifeweaver just needs an instant swap between heals & damage
Happy life anniversary!
Came to read some comments
Left wishing karq a happy birthday
happy birthday goat
Happy Birthday 🎉
happy birthday!!!!
Happy birthday, big dog!!
I really like that lifeweaver idea
happy bday young man
happy birthday m8
Happy birthday 🎉
Happy Birthday Q
Happy Birthday from Cheese!
GOOD BORTH CATQ
Happy birthday 🎁🎂
Happy birthday
I relate to the bronze player, I’ve never made it past bronze 1 but I still keep coming back and trying to improve in different ways. Rather than mastering 3-5 characters I’ve been trying to learn more (tank main). Even though I’m not great I still have fun popping off as Winston every so often
I still have no idea how to play Magua or the new Pharah and I've played so much.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY BROTHER ASIAN MAN !!!
11:13 Sigma: "If you know what you're looking for, inquiry is unnecessary. But if you don't know... how do you inquire?" xD
Moira's doing WHAT to Sombra 😂😂😂
3:39 - Illari is the better support to use imo.
In my experience as a coach, anyone who’s been hard stuck bronze or silver for that long has bad hardware or settings somewhere.
I’ll be working with a guy and realize he uses like a weird ball mouse thing, or has like 55fps on PC, or has like 8000 edpi
Hot take: i dont think kiri should be doing as much HS damage as she does, it goes far, fast, and has 0 damage fall off. She should not have the HS multiplier she does and it should be nerfed
What would you suggest then? Don't most projectiles in OW not have any falloff? (Genuinely curious, not trying to be rude) I'll admit I'm biased because i play Kiriko since hitting headshots is immensely satisfying and rewarding. If you reduce her hs damage I feel like she wouldn't be anywhere near as fun :[
kiriko doesn't have any individual abilities on her own that are "overpowered" and doesn't see that much pro play so a lot of people would disagree but i absolutely think she needs a nerf. she just has too much she has good healing really good damage a super short cooldown teleport and suzu which just has way too many positive stats. theres no reason suzu needs to cleanse, burst heal, AND make the target completely intangible (doom literally punches straight through them, as if he doesn't get fucked over enough as is). i would be fine with her keeping the damage if suzu or tp or kitsune rush were nerfed, but she definitely shouldn't stay as is
This as hot as an ice cream
@pebl7735 she does not even 2 tap anymore and I think Kiriko players should be rewarded with good aim. Her abilities need to be looked at
@milesgomez8253 I agree, I'd probably remove the extra hp on cleanse and nerf swift step cooldown
Ayyyy it’s my bday too bro. 🎉
8:35 AYO family friendly here!!
14:35 oh god KarQ pls make it stop
18:53 he stopped himself just for you!
Tbh Moira is the best to avoid Sombra noobs, you have to be ready you need to play inside rooms or small corridors and fade fast enough to throw an healing orb try it and then spam "aren't u pathetic "
happy b day brv
low impact elements woudl be fun perhaps you can pick your element before u start sorta like paladin cards
Happy Birthday KarQ
Also, the "Que onda" that Sombra says , it is mexican slang for "wazzup?"
Legit, the single tank has created a lot of issues with the notion of maintaining space. I have seen my non-tank allies legit abandon the payload and point because they clearly are scared. I feel the game desperately needs two tanks back. I felt teammates actually felt more compelled to fight for space properly instead of relying on the tank to hold space.
People dont understand how space works. I can provide space with all roles because i know how to back them off. Damage and positioning, if you can't damage, then people dont respect your positioning. Look at widowmaker. People stay out of line of sight because she's a threat, but if she's trash, then people will just walk in the line of sight. Also damaging/killing the healers or taking resources away will make the enemy rethink their positioning.
I think leaning into Lifeweaver's hardlight theme would be interesting. He already can help break shields, but what if he would disrupt shields more effectively. If he could do additional damage to shields and maybe even permanents.
He already does insane dmg to shields he doesn’t need it at all.
Another way to bully rein let's go
lw just needs to be able to transition from healing to dealing damage faster. its so clunky vs other supports. like look at kiriko/bap/moria/ana they can do their healing and damage basically at the same time. lw cant.
edit: didnt realize karq said a similar thing in the vid my b
Hot Take: they should rework symmetra portals to function same as Dr strange in marvel rivals
To the bronze player, you have to think about WHY you lost, not just the fact you are bronze. Self scrutiny does mean you care, so that is always a good start!
In every game, you are 20% of the team, which means if you are consistently better, you should win more than not. Also - play with your team even if they are in the "wrong" spot, even in bronze. 4 people being "wrong" and 1 person being "right" leads to 5 people being wrong because the 4 people will fight a 5v4 and the 1 other person cannot 1v5 so has to concede the fight anyways. Playing together almost always ends up better than trying to do the 'correct" thing. As your rank improves, so will your team's average percentage of being in the "right" spot more consistently. It also leads to less people complaining/giving up "because their team isn't helping them or is too/not aggressive.
Very arbitrary advice for support and tank because I do not DPS:
Tank: You create space for your team by simply physically being there, doing damage, and/or pressuring the non-tank players to make them commit resources onto you in the form of damage, cooldowns, stuns, etc. The more they use on you, the less they can do to your team. The more breathing room you can create for your team without dying (there is some limit testing here to know what is making space and what is feeding ult charge to them), the more opportunities you give your team to help. You aren't the ONLY one responsible, but you may hold a lot of it.
Support: Doing damage and being in a spot where you can hide from pressure is sometimes better than pumping heals into your team. The more damage you deal to the enemies, the more healing has to be committed to and the LESS damage that is coming into your team, so you have less damage to heal.
Speaking as an average Torb player, Tracer is hard af to play well.
I'm top 100 dps and sup, tracer is do hard to be god tier but anytime i play pro players they're basically immortal
happi bdai
6:49 "Que onda" means "what's up"
But in a bad translation (literally translation) means "what's wave" cause onda means wave.
Also, "tu bebes agua" means "you are drinking water. "
Not asking, just pointing that you are drinking water
I swear the hot take on the video pic triggered me so much
I love how sus OW out of context is
I think it's really dumb that some eliminations are counted for two players instead of one getting an assist. This makes scoreboard really innacurate, as in early rounds, a team's total eliminations could be 10, but the opposing team's total deaths could be 6. It's harder to tell who's doing what since a dps could just be stat padding eliminations and justifies poor playstyles with boosted stats. Scoreboard needs an overhaul.
How though? I mean, final blows aren't a great measure to use either. If a Hog hooks someone into his team and they die, it's fair to say the Hog killed them even if he didn't actually get the killing blow.
“Que onda” is what’s up in Spanish
Que onda = what’s up. Not I’m here lol
KarQ says play with people
Overwatch 2 removes looking for group preventing people from playing with people
@8:34
Sorry to break it to you but most people don't have fast enough reaction time to interrupt Sombras hack plus even if you do she gets a 50% cooldown back on the hack (for some reason Blizz thinks she still needs this) but just like KarQ said you can still fight her after the hack if you survive the burst.
it's not dependent on your innate reaction time, literally anyone has the capability, but part of it is keeping in mind that there is a sombra and there is a possibility of getting hacked actively in your mind, the 2nd part is where most people fail. of course there is a lot to keep track of and it is a skill but you absolutely can do it if you put some active effort into it
@@lostmycat5671 the guy is playing support, he cant focus purely on responding to a hack, is impossible to be sharp the whole match ready to react as if it was a formula 1 race while healing, avoiding the other 4 people that wanna kill you, dealing damage, etc
@@angelstouge2195 it'll be hard for a new player sure, but it's something you're inevitably going to have to learn if you want to deal with sombra
all tanks should have a cooldown chain combo that if everything hits, it kills a 250hp hero. basically turn them all to roadhog but tanks with higher hp pool have longer time to kill compared to lower hp pool character. then we can balance around that rather than have abilities that may help the team in certain situations....
Was just thinking about this today. If I was to nerf one thing about my main (Ball) it would probably be his movement speed. A lot of people claim Ball is unkillable and that's why it's okay for him to be chain CCd or w.e., and a lot of people say he's unkillable because he has mountains of HP. That's not correct though. If you've ever seen a Ball pull off the 5 man shield for a total of 1,300hp, they probably get slept or rocked right after for flying too close to the sun, and get that 1,300hp deleted in like .4s. What makes Ball unkillable is the fact that he can get slept, and maybe a stray shot hits him before the other enemies can switch their focus to him, so he wakes up and within half a second he's grappled out of the bounds of the map, grabs 2 megas, and is back with his team in like 3s. I'd say give Ball like a 10% reduction in his fireball speed, and reduce his hp by like 25 or 50, then we can have serious talks about giving tanks more CC *resistance* or some kind of buffer to protect from chain CC. As it is right now if Ball had CC resistance he would absolutely stomp every game because how slippery he is.
Or just y'know, bring back 6v6.
Tracer is extremely difficult. I was Masters 5, decided to go back to Hanzo for a few days and my decision making went out the window when I went back to Tracer. I was dying for the stupidest things. She's way to easy to punish. Most of the time you're close to the enemy and away from your team, and her HP is super low. Any mistake will end on a death. You have to be aware at all times of every cooldown, enemy position, if the enemy know where you are, spawn times, ults, etc. Not that other characters don't have to pay attention to these things, but a mistake or two will more likely end in you creating less value rather then send you back to the spawn room
If thier is taking damage he is gonna roll me
@spilo
8:59 use the awkward method. Damage damage damage, cover cover cover, enemy moves forward you move back, enemy moves back you move forward. Also my own opinion, in bronze the only stat that really matters is deaths - relative to your own team. All the other stats are meaningless. Healing is just a measure of how much damage your own team has taken and how bad they are, damage can just be a measure of you not being able to kill your targets and focusing people who aren't dying, and elims don't mean you got the killing blow.
First learn to live, then you can learn to provide value - you can't provide value when you're dead. If you have significantly more deaths than your team, you're the problem regardless of what the other stats are. Of course you don't want to play scared, but if you never learn how to survive an entire team fight you'll never learn the basics (positioning, cover, damage).
Swap the teleport wind-up times of Kiri and Reaper and you would fix both heroes
That guts Kiri and makes Reaper a god.
keep wishing, Reaper main
@@jonasdowner Did you think I meant with no rebalancing of power level?
Yo karQ is married?
Silly dps, don't you know that you should control space by shooting others?
The bronze player should make a new account he probablly isnt bronze
Ngl, 2000 hours with a peak of silver back in some point of ow1. I thinks he's a lost cause icl
Hot take: Everyone who says nerf tracer doesn’t play the hero.
suzu doesnt belong to the game
shouldve told moira to uninstall
first dislike