Exactly what I thought seeing this. The only advantage PCBWay has is, that you can have THT components soldered and no limitations for the components themselves. PCBWay is also 2-3 times more expensive than JLCPCB for the same service with much slower turnaround time. However, JLCPCB's component library for their SMT service is so limited, it's a nightmare to deal with when it comes to more complicated designs.
@@111chicane yep, most of my stuff is relatively simple and if they don't have the odd part I just put them on myself, they do 98% and yes tonnes cheaper
Interesting for future reference, but currently out of my scale. I think they should maybe consider ways to streamline. Give me a list of common circuit building block examples using parts they try to keep in stock. Specifically, circuit blocks like common power supplies, radio modules, microcontrollers, and displays. I'm currently half-looking for feasible replacements for an I2S audio amp and an unobtainium clad dc converter from Dialog Semi (DA9230 -incredible part btw). If I had easy circuit blocks I could find and drop into kicad, and then get assembled at a good price, this type of service would be more appealing IMO. If they had some really good designs to use and people really use them, it might be possible to setup the circuit blocks with their own assembly process even if the rest of the circuit needed human assembly. Something like for instance, if I drop in their lithium battery circuit block into my design with their footprints, track layout, and X..Z components, they give me the performance specs and a special price for using the circuit block. They could even make a custom symbol and component library I could drop into kicad and use. Just make the entire block as a single part. Just an idea. -Jake
Its also good to know that PCBWAY was the only one that could assemble a RED soldermask pcb, jlcpcb cannot, also pcbway can put usb connectors etc. and jlcpcb does not have the capabilities for it as of yet. So jlcpcb is "much cheaper" but the headroom and possibilities you get with PCBWAY is sometimes very very needed.
Also the low volume question you asked, I think thats why the starting assembly price is usually around 80$ so maybe they do actually hand solder it since the premium is quite a lot for a low number of boards compare to i.e. jlcpcb
@@sdgelectronics been using their PCBA for a long time, and we asked them about pricing at some point as we noticed higher prices. Apparently digikey prices are higher for them in China than for us in Europe, so boards with a lot of component costs can get pricier, sometimes even exceeding the price we could get for EU-based PCBA where manufacturing costs are higher but Digikey component cheaper. I once did a very low cost board (50 units,
@codemakeshare I actually figured out the same. Professional PCBA service is not really cheaper in china compared to us in the european-union. I order relatively often boards from PCBA services in my job. Always low-volume (
I think the cheapest way for hobbyists is to order single-PCBs from e.g. JLCPCB with stencil and to get the parts directly from a distributor. SMD soldering with stencil is relatively easy.
They made them by hand, using the same stencil technique you've shown before. Too little paste everywhere. They are a stingy bunch! You did a great job. The boards look great.
If you use too much solder paste on low pitch QFN's you risk shorts which can result in a board not working at all. Better to use thinner stencils everywere because then the risk of a component shorting out is less. It also reduces the chance of the components tombstoning because if you use less solder paste the tensile strength is less. The potential corrosion that can happen on pads which are not completely covered in solder paste is less of an issue. Is it ideal? No not really you would prefer every pad to be completely covered but there is a reason these services are so cheap (also very cheap labor).
10:08 - Yeah, they won't load just 20 components but rather a full reel and only pick 20 from there. That's what "extended parts" and the setup cost associated with that is. Nobody is placing those by hand.
Hi Steve, I really enjoy your videos. Would you be able to review the SUGON T26 precision soldering iron by any chance? I saw FansCreate are sponsoring YT channels to review the unit.
They sent a photo of the first PCB for approval, but there was no check prior to that point other than I had made an error on the MOSFET (I'd picked a DPAK instead of D2PAK) and asked how I'd like to proceed. I think if anything was unclear they would confirm first
I was sent 2 pictures of the first board they assembled for me (1 front, 1 back) and was asked whether the component rotations were correct. Once I confirmed everything looked good, they assembled the rest of my boards.
It is very likely more expensive, but I would say that JLCPCB's isn't a full-on assembly service: they only assemble one side of the board, they lack any kind of connector whatsoever and if they are out of a specific component, you are screwed until they eventually re-stock it. With that said, I had a few boards assembled by JLCPCB and the soldering was really good, assembly was really fast and very cheap.
crikey that soldering looks like shit! Ive ordered PCBA from pcbway before (leaded solder & 20 boards one design, 20 boards another) and the quality was much much better. All the prototyping was was reflowed in a toaster oven I got on the cheap with an eyeballed reflow profile and even that came out a million times better. I guess time is $$, maybe the person loaded the 2-layer profile onto the mini reflow oven haha
careful with jlcpcb. My bank account was hacked from using jlcpcb. They stole over 500$ from me. chances are that they are stealing your pcb designs as well. DO NOT TRUST CHINA!!!
Thanks Steve, might be good for prototypes in work where we already have the components in stock. Will wait for the next video.
That assembly and reflow looks terrible! Sorry to say, when I order assembly on jlcpcb they look 10 times nicer!
Exactly what I thought seeing this. The only advantage PCBWay has is, that you can have THT components soldered and no limitations for the components themselves. PCBWay is also 2-3 times more expensive than JLCPCB for the same service with much slower turnaround time. However, JLCPCB's component library for their SMT service is so limited, it's a nightmare to deal with when it comes to more complicated designs.
@@111chicane yep, most of my stuff is relatively simple and if they don't have the odd part I just put them on myself, they do 98% and yes tonnes cheaper
Interesting for future reference, but currently out of my scale.
I think they should maybe consider ways to streamline. Give me a list of common circuit building block examples using parts they try to keep in stock. Specifically, circuit blocks like common power supplies, radio modules, microcontrollers, and displays. I'm currently half-looking for feasible replacements for an I2S audio amp and an unobtainium clad dc converter from Dialog Semi (DA9230 -incredible part btw). If I had easy circuit blocks I could find and drop into kicad, and then get assembled at a good price, this type of service would be more appealing IMO. If they had some really good designs to use and people really use them, it might be possible to setup the circuit blocks with their own assembly process even if the rest of the circuit needed human assembly. Something like for instance, if I drop in their lithium battery circuit block into my design with their footprints, track layout, and X..Z components, they give me the performance specs and a special price for using the circuit block. They could even make a custom symbol and component library I could drop into kicad and use. Just make the entire block as a single part.
Just an idea.
-Jake
Its also good to know that PCBWAY was the only one that could assemble a RED soldermask pcb, jlcpcb cannot, also pcbway can put usb connectors etc. and jlcpcb does not have the capabilities for it as of yet. So jlcpcb is "much cheaper" but the headroom and possibilities you get with PCBWAY is sometimes very very needed.
Not to mention the limited qty of pcb's you can send for assembly at once (i think that jlcpcb can only do a order of 50)
Also the low volume question you asked, I think thats why the starting assembly price is usually around 80$ so maybe they do actually hand solder it since the premium is quite a lot for a low number of boards compare to i.e. jlcpcb
Very interesting! Thanks for showing!
It's the best tutorial of SMT service on PCBWay 4_2_day.
They may have pnp machines set up with common components and just swap in/out a few parts in cartridge style feeders.
Thank you!
I was wondering; does the price of the components they sourced matched the price of the components if you bought them yourself from LCSC?
I didn't get a breakdown, but I'll quickly work it out ready for the next video bringing up this PCB.
@@sdgelectronics been using their PCBA for a long time, and we asked them about pricing at some point as we noticed higher prices. Apparently digikey prices are higher for them in China than for us in Europe, so boards with a lot of component costs can get pricier, sometimes even exceeding the price we could get for EU-based PCBA where manufacturing costs are higher but Digikey component cheaper. I once did a very low cost board (50 units,
@@codemakeshare thanks for the info. Good feedback for anyone reading
@codemakeshare I actually figured out the same. Professional PCBA service is not really cheaper in china compared to us in the european-union. I order relatively often boards from PCBA services in my job. Always low-volume (
I think the cheapest way for hobbyists is to order single-PCBs from e.g. JLCPCB with stencil and to get the parts directly from a distributor. SMD soldering with stencil is relatively easy.
They made them by hand, using the same stencil technique you've shown before.
Too little paste everywhere. They are a stingy bunch!
You did a great job. The boards look great.
If you use too much solder paste on low pitch QFN's you risk shorts which can result in a board not working at all. Better to use thinner stencils everywere because then the risk of a component shorting out is less. It also reduces the chance of the components tombstoning because if you use less solder paste the tensile strength is less. The potential corrosion that can happen on pads which are not completely covered in solder paste is less of an issue.
Is it ideal? No not really you would prefer every pad to be completely covered but there is a reason these services are so cheap (also very cheap labor).
@@Tr1p93 You haven't said anything that most people here don't already know.
It's still short ~50%.
This was a hand-job.
10:08 - Yeah, they won't load just 20 components but rather a full reel and only pick 20 from there. That's what "extended parts" and the setup cost associated with that is. Nobody is placing those by hand.
Mmm not impressed with the soldering, were all boards the same?.
Sadly yes, trying to remove the MOSFET to replace with the other part was almost impossible. Not sure what this paste is
I don't know if it's my solder/flux, but I notice tin pads wick a bit easier than gold.
HASL will always flow better as it's already tinned. The main issue is the components may not always sit flat though
Hi Steve, I really enjoy your videos. Would you be able to review the SUGON T26 precision soldering iron by any chance? I saw FansCreate are sponsoring YT channels to review the unit.
Can PCBWAY do FPC/FFC SMD connectors? I couldn't find any details. JLCPCB will do assembly but not FPC/FFC connectors.
Yes, there's no issue with that
With PCBWay were you able to preview the assembly to correct rotations of the SMD components in the assembly file?
They sent a photo of the first PCB for approval, but there was no check prior to that point other than I had made an error on the MOSFET (I'd picked a DPAK instead of D2PAK) and asked how I'd like to proceed. I think if anything was unclear they would confirm first
I was sent 2 pictures of the first board they assembled for me (1 front, 1 back) and was asked whether the component rotations were correct. Once I confirmed everything looked good, they assembled the rest of my boards.
Isn't this far more expensive than JLCPCB? But then the only advantage that you can use DigiKey when LCSC does not have the components (in stock)?
I'll work out the cost of the components and see
It is very likely more expensive, but I would say that JLCPCB's isn't a full-on assembly service: they only assemble one side of the board, they lack any kind of connector whatsoever and if they are out of a specific component, you are screwed until they eventually re-stock it. With that said, I had a few boards assembled by JLCPCB and the soldering was really good, assembly was really fast and very cheap.
crikey that soldering looks like shit! Ive ordered PCBA from pcbway before (leaded solder & 20 boards one design, 20 boards another) and the quality was much much better. All the prototyping was was reflowed in a toaster oven I got on the cheap with an eyeballed reflow profile and even that came out a million times better. I guess time is $$, maybe the person loaded the 2-layer profile onto the mini reflow oven haha
9:00 i think your pads are too big for those components
@9:35 i hear chinese prison labor is very cheap.
Why go all the way to China?
news.sky.com/story/leicester-up-to-10-000-could-be-victims-of-modern-slavery-in-textile-factories-12027289
So is US prison labour
careful with jlcpcb. My bank account was hacked from using jlcpcb. They stole over 500$ from me. chances are that they are stealing your pcb designs as well. DO NOT TRUST CHINA!!!
Not soldering by hand affects how you understand how the electrons will be polarised in the traces. This level of abstraction is just far too much.