In upcoming videos, I'll include Fahrenheit temperatures alongside Celsius. As a preliminary reference: -24°C converts to approximately 75.2°F -25°C equates to roughly 77°F -26°C equates to roughly 78.8°F Part 2 of this video which is the baking process can be found here th-cam.com/video/WcEnVOhHOtk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=H8uJXschpefNtfxV
Thank you so much for your detailed descriptions, reasonings, and techniques I’ve struggled for years with sourdough and I’m looking forward to applying the techniques you have suggested You definitely highlighted the importance of the small details like temperatures and associated timing and proportions , not over mixing, the critical timing of stages and starter maintenance No one else explains this and it’s the reason I’ve had less than 50% success rate
Thanks for the video. Have you tried doing it all in the mixer and avoiding the S&F? If you end up doing S&F anyway, why not just mix it all by hand to start? Seems like a lot of cleanup just to get the dough ready for bulk fermentation.
When I try and mix it to full gluten development in the mixer I always get a tighter crumb than I like. Still good but I like it abit more open, not wildly open. And you are right im pretty much just using the mixer to combine the ingredients, but it saves my back. I'm also doing 2 or 3 mixes when I bake sourdough. If I was doing a single mix, I would save myself cleaning and hand mix.
I will use ice in my water during summer to keep the dough temperature down. I never skip stretch and folds when mixing more than a few breads, especially if I'm selling it, I keep the variables the same for consistent results. But if I'm baking for myself doing a few loaves I skip stretch and folds sometimes. I have worked in bakeries In the past where we have mixed until full development and never stretched and fold, but this takes time to learn. This video just shows the easiest and most consistent way to mix
I have that same problem right now, overkneading in my new spiral dough mixer every single time. Breaking down the gluten network. Altough I make a direct dough for pizza, 75%. I will try your way, but it's 30 degrees Celsius and very high humidity where I'm at. My flour is 14% gluten though. Would you have any advice on how to modify your process? Ive been trying to mix with a freezing cold water to keep the dough temperature lower, maybe that's a mistake?
In summer I will release a video on how I do my process (here in Australia we also hit 28 to 32 degrees during summer) but in summary I would aim for a dough temperature of 22c during summer using cold water during mixing, knowing that during bulk fermentation the dough temperature will rise. I also try and do my mixes early in the day before the afternoon heat. My fridge is also set to 2 degrees in winter even lower if you can to reduce the dough temperature as fast as possible. Bulk fermentation I aim for 30% as well, knowing it will take longer to slow down in the fridge. Hope this makes sense, wrote it quickly at work
If you're mixing all white flour you can, I personally don't as it's very easy to over mix, and I always have 10% or 20% wholewheat in my mixes which tears the dough because of the bran. But if you have good timing and youre watching the mix closely you could mix to full development. I would take the aliquot sample after mixing is finished.
Thank you for sharing your skill😊 im trying to make a sour dough with spiral mixer but i dont need much time to fold it 4times so i want to know should i fold 2times and put the fridge take some time for relax dough and then fold it make it shape to the fridge 12hours do you thinkg is it possible?
Thank you! If you don't have time, 2 folds are fine if you just push the dough a bit longer in the spiral mixer. I don't use the fridge for bulk fermentation, only for overnight cold ferment after they have been put in the banneton. I never had good results doing bulk fermentation in the fridge.
Really thanks for your answering❤ actually i do not make bulk size like you. i made a foccacia for service thesedays. 1st ferment dough in the morning and fold it. Right away put in the fridge (4'c) and take it back 4pm (it seems fermenting well i guess) i fold it again and fridge for 12hours and bake The reason why i choose this system is perfect for my service😢 i really hope this process works well
@takoyakilee6424 sorry I thought you were talking about sourdough breads, for focaccia I also sometimes leave my dough in the fridge during bulk fermentation then the next day let it second rise.
@takoyakilee6424 haha all good! There is no right or wrong way, but personally I wouldn't put sourdough bread in the fridge half way through bulk fermentation, it changes my crumb alot. Focaccia is not a problem as it's pretty thin, if that makes sense
Unfortunately this mixer does not have reverse speed. I was hoping to get a sunmix mixer which does have reverse, but they were sold out when I was buying a spiral and ended up getting the famag instead
It's an optional step many sourdough bakers add in the beginning, I do sometimes especially if I'm hand mixing 1 or 2 loaves. In my experience when salt is added later in the process it improves the dough's crumb structure, it also when salt is added it slows down fermentation, so adding it 30 minutes into the process gives the starter a little head start on its own if that makes sense.
Covering them is not needed in some fridges. The fridge I use is only for sourdough and there is only one fan at the top. If I was using my residential fridge I would cover them as the fans would dry the sourdough
you 70% before bassinage ? So you mix 5 ' and fermentolease for 30 min to 1 hour , add salt and some bassinage and mix 3-5 and add the remaining bassiange `Similar to what you do, we do a similar mix at the bakery when it is 73 percent but if you are pushing hydration to 78-79 , the mix goes forever, Imagine starting at 70 and pushing it to 78. 15' at the minimum. 'where ' means first speed and '' means second speed
Yes I only leave a little bit for bassinage as this mix hydration was 75% hydration so not that wet, if I was using more water like 78% hydration I would leave alot more bassinage and then mix a little longer (always low speed for me)
@@farinabodrum9893agreed short mix always better, I try and keep mixing to a minimum when mixing white flour and wholewheat flour. Pure white flour mixes you can push longer as there is no bran tearing at the dough
Thanks for the video bro, very interesting that you use room temp water as when I make pizza dough I believe it’s recommended to use ice cold water and finish off with a final dough temp of 25c 🧊 Do you ever make sourdough pizzas? If so would love to see your processes 🙏🏽
In summer on very hot days I will use ice cold water myself to keep the temperature down, especially when the room temperature is over 27c . In winter when the room temperature is between 10 and 20, using ice water and mixing until 25c would take a long time
@@urbantreats_sydney I see! Currently 22c in the UK but if I don’t mix ice water I won’t have enough time mixing in the Spiral Mixer and my FDT gets to 25c to quickly. Do you recommend ever going above 25c for a FDT? Would love to see you pizza video soon 🫶🏽🫡
@robertorusso5807 in summer here I often get to FDT 28 if I'm not careful, I just reduce the bulk fermentation to 30% and drop the fridge temperature to 1 degree to slow the dough down faster. Personally I recommend keeping to 25c to 26c as much as you can.
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In upcoming videos, I'll include Fahrenheit temperatures alongside Celsius. As a preliminary reference:
-24°C converts to approximately 75.2°F
-25°C equates to roughly 77°F
-26°C equates to roughly 78.8°F
Part 2 of this video which is the baking process can be found here th-cam.com/video/WcEnVOhHOtk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=H8uJXschpefNtfxV
Your videos are so helpful!
Thank you I really appreciate that!
Thank you so much for your detailed descriptions, reasonings, and techniques
I’ve struggled for years with sourdough and I’m looking forward to applying the techniques you have suggested
You definitely highlighted the importance of the small details like temperatures and associated timing and proportions , not over mixing, the critical timing of stages and starter maintenance
No one else explains this and it’s the reason I’ve had less than 50% success rate
Thank you! I really appreciate it 👍 the minor details really do make a night and day difference. Good luck with your bake!
Thanks for sharing knowledge partner.
Thank you!
Thanks for the video. Have you tried doing it all in the mixer and avoiding the S&F?
If you end up doing S&F anyway, why not just mix it all by hand to start? Seems like a lot of cleanup just to get the dough ready for bulk fermentation.
When I try and mix it to full gluten development in the mixer I always get a tighter crumb than I like. Still good but I like it abit more open, not wildly open. And you are right im pretty much just using the mixer to combine the ingredients, but it saves my back. I'm also doing 2 or 3 mixes when I bake sourdough. If I was doing a single mix, I would save myself cleaning and hand mix.
@@urbantreats_sydney makes sense. Happy baking, I’ll follow your YT journey.
@@ourcalltoadventure thank you!
Interesting, thank you.
I save those little nets you get fruit wrapped in, to clean up my bowl when there are little bits of dough left.
That's a great idea! Saves cloths too
I have the same mixer. I had the same issues. Took awhile to get use to it
Me too, was definitely a learning curve, great once you learn not to overdo it
Im curious if you have ever put ice in your water to skip the stretch/fold??
I will use ice in my water during summer to keep the dough temperature down. I never skip stretch and folds when mixing more than a few breads, especially if I'm selling it, I keep the variables the same for consistent results. But if I'm baking for myself doing a few loaves I skip stretch and folds sometimes. I have worked in bakeries In the past where we have mixed until full development and never stretched and fold, but this takes time to learn. This video just shows the easiest and most consistent way to mix
I have that same problem right now, overkneading in my new spiral dough mixer every single time. Breaking down the gluten network. Altough I make a direct dough for pizza, 75%. I will try your way, but it's 30 degrees Celsius and very high humidity where I'm at. My flour is 14% gluten though. Would you have any advice on how to modify your process? Ive been trying to mix with a freezing cold water to keep the dough temperature lower, maybe that's a mistake?
In summer I will release a video on how I do my process (here in Australia we also hit 28 to 32 degrees during summer) but in summary I would aim for a dough temperature of 22c during summer using cold water during mixing, knowing that during bulk fermentation the dough temperature will rise. I also try and do my mixes early in the day before the afternoon heat. My fridge is also set to 2 degrees in winter even lower if you can to reduce the dough temperature as fast as possible. Bulk fermentation I aim for 30% as well, knowing it will take longer to slow down in the fridge. Hope this makes sense, wrote it quickly at work
@@urbantreats_sydneythank you so much, all makes sense, I'll give it a go.
@waisetsubunsho7934 no problem! Good luck 👍
Could I mix the dough all the way to avoid stretch and folds? What would I need to do ? If so when would I take my aliquot sample.
If you're mixing all white flour you can, I personally don't as it's very easy to over mix, and I always have 10% or 20% wholewheat in my mixes which tears the dough because of the bran. But if you have good timing and youre watching the mix closely you could mix to full development. I would take the aliquot sample after mixing is finished.
Thank you for sharing your skill😊 im trying to make a sour dough with spiral mixer but i dont need much time to fold it 4times so i want to know should i fold 2times and put the fridge take some time for relax dough and then fold it make it shape to the fridge 12hours do you thinkg is it possible?
Thank you! If you don't have time, 2 folds are fine if you just push the dough a bit longer in the spiral mixer. I don't use the fridge for bulk fermentation, only for overnight cold ferment after they have been put in the banneton. I never had good results doing bulk fermentation in the fridge.
Really thanks for your answering❤ actually i do not make bulk size like you.
i made a foccacia for service thesedays. 1st ferment dough in the morning and fold it. Right away put in the fridge (4'c) and take it back 4pm (it seems fermenting well i guess) i fold it again and fridge for 12hours and bake
The reason why i choose this system is perfect for my service😢 i really hope this process works well
@takoyakilee6424 sorry I thought you were talking about sourdough breads, for focaccia I also sometimes leave my dough in the fridge during bulk fermentation then the next day let it second rise.
Noo im so sorry i mean sour dough😅 sorry to confuse you. My question is Is that okay to make a sourdough in the same process as focaccia
@takoyakilee6424 haha all good! There is no right or wrong way, but personally I wouldn't put sourdough bread in the fridge half way through bulk fermentation, it changes my crumb alot. Focaccia is not a problem as it's pretty thin, if that makes sense
Why do you roll the dough in flour before bannertons?
I roll them in flour to stop them from sticking to the bannetons
Is this a high gluten flour? Curious on your protein %. Thanks!
My flour is about 12.5g protein
Have you tried mixing in reverse. You would need less mixing to bring it all together.
Unfortunately this mixer does not have reverse speed. I was hoping to get a sunmix mixer which does have reverse, but they were sold out when I was buying a spiral and ended up getting the famag instead
I would Aotolyse pre starter for 20 mins. More consistent results
Either way is fine. I like to get most of the hydration in the mixer as early as possible, I've always had consistent results with fermentolyse
What’s the benefit of adding salt a little later and not from the beginning?
It's an optional step many sourdough bakers add in the beginning, I do sometimes especially if I'm hand mixing 1 or 2 loaves. In my experience when salt is added later in the process it improves the dough's crumb structure, it also when salt is added it slows down fermentation, so adding it 30 minutes into the process gives the starter a little head start on its own if that makes sense.
@@urbantreats_sydney interesting, I’ll try adding it later next time
Have a try see how it goes, like I said I do it mostly to give fermentation a head start before slowing it down with salt.
Impressive
Thank you! much appreciated.
Why don’t you cover them up in the fridge?
Covering them is not needed in some fridges. The fridge I use is only for sourdough and there is only one fan at the top. If I was using my residential fridge I would cover them as the fans would dry the sourdough
@@urbantreats_sydney ok, thanks very much!
No problem 👍
you 70% before bassinage ? So you mix 5 ' and fermentolease for 30 min to 1 hour , add salt and some bassinage and mix 3-5 and add the remaining bassiange
`Similar to what you do, we do a similar mix at the bakery when it is 73 percent but if you are pushing hydration to 78-79 , the mix goes forever, Imagine starting at 70 and pushing it to 78. 15' at the minimum.
'where ' means first speed and '' means second speed
short mix is the best.
Yes I only leave a little bit for bassinage as this mix hydration was 75% hydration so not that wet, if I was using more water like 78% hydration I would leave alot more bassinage and then mix a little longer (always low speed for me)
@@farinabodrum9893agreed short mix always better, I try and keep mixing to a minimum when mixing white flour and wholewheat flour. Pure white flour mixes you can push longer as there is no bran tearing at the dough
I am surprised you’ve used soap to clean the mixer - just hot water should be good 😮
I also sanitise, I like to clean 😂
Thanks for the video bro, very interesting that you use room temp water as when I make pizza dough I believe it’s recommended to use ice cold water and finish off with a final dough temp of 25c 🧊
Do you ever make sourdough pizzas? If so would love to see your processes 🙏🏽
In summer on very hot days I will use ice cold water myself to keep the temperature down, especially when the room temperature is over 27c . In winter when the room temperature is between 10 and 20, using ice water and mixing until 25c would take a long time
Sometimes I do, my kids love sourdough pizzas, I will definitely make a video on it at some point
@@urbantreats_sydney I see! Currently 22c in the UK but if I don’t mix ice water I won’t have enough time mixing in the Spiral Mixer and my FDT gets to 25c to quickly.
Do you recommend ever going above 25c for a FDT?
Would love to see you pizza video soon 🫶🏽🫡
@robertorusso5807 in summer here I often get to FDT 28 if I'm not careful, I just reduce the bulk fermentation to 30% and drop the fridge temperature to 1 degree to slow the dough down faster. Personally I recommend keeping to 25c to 26c as much as you can.
@@urbantreats_sydney🙏🏽🙏🏽