Cherokee: The Low Wing Wonder
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
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Scott Gentile of A2A Simulations flight tests both the Piper Cherokee and Cessna 172. Detailed differences are explained between these two legendary aircraft and their high or low wing configuration.
Took my flight training in a Cessna. I have only owned low wing , 2 Cherokees(1966&1976), Grumman, Ercoupe, Bonanza, Homebuilt Teenie Two and Homebuilt Stitts Playmate over the years. Allaround and allpurpose best I think was the 1966 Cherokee. Really learned to love that hershey bar. Am now almost 80 and no longer active so I guess it really doesn't make any difference now but to look back with fond memories.
I'm 36 and finally beginning my private pilot training after dreaming about since I was in single digits. Thank you for imparting your wisdom and experiences, for bothperspective and current aviators to learn from!
I know the feeling I hung it up a few years back too!
Hello Fred Martin. I thank you for your comments, and YES it does make a difference. Being 80 years young you have so very much to offer with your experiences and knowledge! My boyfriend just turned 58 today and he has wanted to be a pilot most all of his life. I am trying to get him to go forth and FLY!.....
@@larmar Best Wishes to both you and Fred Martin! May God Bless us All!!!
Fred, I'm approaching 70 and am in the same boat you're in concerning not flying any longer. Money is the biggest factor! I learned to fly in 1981 or so in a Cessna 150, receiving my license about 1 year later. From there I went to A&P school, got that license around 1987, moved from Texas to California, and went to work for Continental Airlines at LAX. I have always loved being around aircraft and it was my dream job. Marriage and raising a family really put a damper on any flying. I still dream about returning but feel it might never happen. Today, I'm retired and the extent of my flying now is with RC airplanes and helicopters. I sure do miss flying though, wishing I had flown the Cherokee, (we did have one in the flying club I belonged to way back then) but was too enamored with the Grumman-American Tigers we had in the club. I really loved that airplane!
I'm currently training for my Private with a 1967 Cherokee 140. I flew it one day after a scheduling error and I was shocked by how much better it was in virtually every category than with the 172 I was previously flying. Seriously one of the best aircraft ever made.
In addition to the items mentioned in the video, the low wing has a couple more advantages. Ground handling in high winds is one. If you've just landed into a 35 kt gusty headwind, making the 90 degree turn off the runway can be a harrowing experience in the 172, but pretty much a non-event in the Cherokee. The 172's high, heavy wing and relatively narrow main gear will make it want to tip over when encountering strong gusty winds from the side. The Cherokee's wing (and center of gravity) is low and the wider gear spread makes it extremely stable when taxiing in strong winds.
The other big advantage is fueling. Fueling (and preflighting) a high wing generally requires a ladder or step stool. Not so with the low wing. Also, if you make the mistake of leaving a gas cap off or loose, in the Cherokee you'll notice it right away. In the 172, you'll notice it somewhere above the ground as the gas gauge plummets for no apparent reason.
I've owned both the 172 and Cherokee 180. Both have their plusses and minuses. For example, the 172 has a lot more room for passengers to get in and out. In the Cherokee you get on the wing and have to climb down into the cabin. The Cherokee is also short on rear seat legroom. This was fixed by a 5 inch fuselage stretch that happened about the same time that the Hershey bar wing disappeared, but the early models are pretty tight when it comes to rear seat legroom.
Overall, I'd have to say that the Cherokee is my favorite of the two. I've been flying my current one for 25 years now. It goes anywhere from Class B airports to isolated mountain grass strips, while carrying large amounts of people and cargo. What more could you ask for?
Thanks for this awesome post! Good to know.
I’ve never seen anyone use a step stool to preflight a 172 or fuel it. There is a step on the side of the fuselage and sometimes on the wing strut.
Alex1911 Both flight schools I have been to have used ladders for both adding fuel as well as checking fuel during the preflight. Not all 172s have that step, but even when it had the little step they didn’t want us using it for some reason.
@@Alex-us2vw Aircraft fuel hoses are heavy, and the reaction from the fuel flow can easily knock you off balance. I use the step (and other foot on the strut) when I need to check the fuel level but need to use a step stool or ladder for fueling a Cessna.
I would add that you can enter/exit a high wing much like a car - and all without stepping on the seat that you're going to be sitting on.
The Cherokee will always be my favorite only because I got my private pilot instrument rating and commercial rating in it
As a student pilot who will now be moving from Cessna 172 to a Cherokee, this was great information. Thanks!
John L, exactly in the same boat, and was glad I came across this video. I have over 310 total hours in my logbook, just got my instrument rating, and all of my training and solo flying has been done in various high wing Cessnas. PPL in a 152, lots of post PPL cross country flying in 172 M and SP models, and finally all my instrument training in a 172RG. Now I'm finally ready to get my commercial certificate and having moved to the east coast, the flight school near me, which I really want to get my training done at, has only Pipers (Cherokees etc.). I was hesitant at first, but this video really put me at ease!!
@@747-pilot your landings are going to be smoother do to the ground effect.
I love flying both the C172 and the PA 28.However,my favorite high performance variant of the Cherokee is the 235 hp model.It's a good, fast straight leg little plane!
First plane I ever flew. The Cherokee 180 is one of the best planes of all time.
There was an ad in "Flying" magazine in the 70s that summed up the difference between both airplanes. It was a full-page photo of a Skyhawk flying away toward the horizon with a man on the ramp holding his suitcase. The caption read, "You *can* fly farther in a 172 than in a Cherokee. You just have to decide who stays home".
Hahahaha I wish I could see this!
That's a burn!
That’s pretty funny considering they both have a useful load of just over 900 pounds, typically configured; they both have the same engine (E series Lycoming O-320) with the same fuel consumption (just over 7 gallons an hour leaned out in cruise); and they both have the same cruising speed (100 knots give or take).
The Cessna 172 will always have the advantages of more room, more places to put baggage, more and larger doors, a better view down, shade from the sun, shelter from the rain, no climbing on the wing, no fuel pumps, better flaps, better off field performance, better takeoff and landing performance, room for hangar helpers (boats, cars) under the wing, etc etc etc.
@@Bartonovich52 Not so. Check 08:29
@@Bartonovich52 Have owned both and the Cherokee is way more functional and practical imho.
Absolute great video and informative. Cherokees and Arrows are my passion and favorite aircrafts.
I use to go flying with my dad when I was a kid. A Cherokee D or the Cherokee 6. They were both great planes. Flying figure eights and spirals, practicing stalls.
The Cherokee was aerodynamicly a very good plane. I miss him and
38 Lima.
Happen to be N5138L? If so, she's still flying.
Teaching my son to fly currently in a 64 Cherokee 140. Beyond words enjoyment. Hope he garners the same priceless memories from his son as well.
Having time in both airplanes, I tend to agree with everything you have to say here. There's only one thing that the designers at Piper did, and continues to do, that really makes the Cherokee line of aircraft somewhat slower than it has to be.
They have that beautiful Laminar Flow wing on it, but then they completely destroy the laminar flow by the use of protruding rivets! If they got rid of the rivets they're using, and went to a flush rivet system, they would probably gain 10 knots. Laminar Flow Systems, a company in Florida, has proved this by STCing some mods for the Piper wing that allow those rivet to be covered over with strips that restore a good percentage of the laminar flow over the wing. But, if Piper did a flush rivet or bonded wing, they would have a much faster airplane.
The other thing, in your comparison, if you wanted to compare the Skyhawk to the 180, you should have compared it instead against the 140, or Warrior, since they were the same engine class. That's for the Hershey bar wing, which is no longer manufactured. However, now that the Skylane has 180 HP, in the latest generation, it carries more weight, at 600 pounds with full fuel versus 582 pounds with full fuel for the Archer, which is the 180 hp Piper now.
It would probably make it slower because of the added weight to put flush rivets in... and the Cherokee doesn’t fly fast enough to make any savings in parasite drag.
I had a Horton Stoll kit on mine. Owned two. One with Stoll the other without.
If I did it agian I would go with the Stoll.
The rivets on the leading edge were pretty clean with the Horton addition.
Bartonovich52 It’s not about parasite drag. It’s about the difference between laminar vs turbulent flow.
My grandmother use to fun Lee airport outside of Annapolis for years and Pipers was our plane of choice for training. It started with J-3s then Colts and Tripacers. We upgraded to the Cherokee 140s and 180Cs. What a great acft. It was honest and tough, that Hershey bar wing was in my opinion better than the taper. I don't know how many hours I put on the different types but was it fun for dates going to the beach. Ahh happy times.
I trained in the PA-28 140, 151, 161 and 180. Passed my test in the 161(Warrior II) N3071D. Lots of great memories here!
I don't think you will find better basic training aircraft than the Cherokee series, or a better, affordable first airplane for that matter!
I just bought a Cherokee 235 as my first airplane. Great info which confirms I made the right choice of airplane. Just fast enough to get you there quickly. And enough muscle to carry me and my friends with 84 gallons of fuel.
My first flying lesson in 1974 was in a Cherokee 140 in Teterboro Airport New Jersey ☺️🛩️
Like a big comfy armchair in the sky! Loved it :-)
well done and very informative video! Thank you!
My dad had the Bonanza V-tail, then the Cherrokee and later the Comanche.....loved the Pipers...
robgrt My aunt had an early model Bonanza V-tail. My father had the Bellanca Viking when I was young. Great memories!
I grew up flying a Bellanca Viking. We had one from my age of 14 to 18. That was a. lot of fun.
My first airplane was a Piper PA-28 Warrior II, very similar. And I love it.
We owned a 140 for years as the family airplane. I absolutely loved it. I think it's one of the best light aircraft ever made.
Chris Cunningham I soloed in a 140 Flight Liner....
A great video for a legendary airplane. I wonder why fly schools don't teach aerodynamics this well and this easy....and even experienced airline and military pilots. Please keep up the good work. Thanks.
Great video.. I think it's a matter of personal preference. I learned to fly in a cherokee, and even though I have time in a C172, the PA 28 will always be my favourite.
Nice
Almost died in a Cherokee 140, due to the pilot thinking he could carry three grown men. I'm glad they took the back seats out. It's a two seater. I'll enjoy my C-182, thanks.
Very well done 👍
You explained it to where someone with no clue could make sense of it all.
Thanks for this very informative video.
Great video. Learned a lot. Thanks.
The piper is so easy to fly. After 20hr in a skyfox gazelle (which is also an easy aircraft to fly) i tried out the piper without ever having flown with a yolk, flaps, trim wheel or mixture to deal with, i was able to fly with minimal verbal instructions and zero intervention from my instructor, including takeoff, circuits and landing. a real testament to the aircraft.
I learned to fly on this aircraft! Love it
Great video and very well thought out, Thanks for making it!
I learned to fly in a C150, 52, and 72, The day I got my Private, I went over to the Piper dealer and got checked out in a Warrior. WOW, what a difference. Hands down, I love those Pipers.
Flew a Cherokee during my flight training, absolutely loved it.....never made it all the way, but it was great while it lasted....memories I will never forget
Update - We need this in MSFS!
Great Video! I learned on the Cherokee Cruiser, in the late 1970s,and later flew the Warrier and Archer. Great airplanes!
Thank you featuring a Civil Air Patrol Cesna 172 in your video
Agree with TheJacobShapiro on Cherokee 180 (in which I learned to fly in the late 1970's). The Miami University Flying Club owned three late 1960's vintage Hershey Almond Bar winged 180's which were kept variously at Oxford Ohio and Bath, Indiana (Richmond, Indiana) airports.
GREAT video. I learned a lot
When I got my licence I had to take whatever a/c was available on the day. Was jumping from PA 28 Warrior to C 172. I liked the flying characteristics of the PA 28 better & really liked the mechanical flap system. Great little performer.
My bet is another major contributor to the extra noise is the extra structure right up around your ears. All that energy is being transmitted up through the fuselage and ringing right next to your head.
I have most of my flight time in Cherokees but have flown 150, 172 and 182 and did spin training in a 150. I loved the Pipers, easy plane to fly and the Lycoming is a very reliable engine Have been away from flying for years but going to go back soon and looking to buy a Cherokee 180
Thank You for this video. Just started flight school and have 1.6 hrs. logged in a PA28-180. Was thinking of switching to the 172, but now I think I'll stay with the PA28. :).
My advice would be to learn in which ever is the cheapest. They are both excellent trainers and neither has a distinct advantage over the other. After you finish training then depending on what you intend to do with your flying, you could look at what aircraft to fly. Neither the 172 or the PA28 are good as tourers, they lack the speed and useful load. Basically both are outclassed by more capable machines intended for the roles in which they were designed.
I have had both Cherokees and Skyhawks.... I’ll take the Skyhawk any day. Who likes to Crawl up on the wing only to squat and drop inside. I love Cessnas two doors. As far as pitch changes with power, I like the fact that the nose rises with advancing the power on a Cessna.... I was taught power for altitude changes, pitch for airspeed changes... Easier in a Cessna
The PA28 Cherokee is an excellent training aircraft and it fly's very well into short bush strips.The PA28 is an excellent training aircraft especially for spinning. I know the FAA dont approve spinning but most countries outside the USA use them for spinning training. The PA28 demonstrates in spinning, high speed stall recover. SO very important if you want to be fully experienced with an aeroplane.The PA28 with 3 in is a good short strip aircraft. 500 yards it works well. A great instrument training platform and a very low maintenance aircraft. I would say the Cherokee PA28 with the 0320 or 0360 engines is one of the best aircraft ever made. Retired CPL
Good video, thanks it gives us more guidance if buying airplane in the future.
AWESOME VIDEO OF THE PA28..EXCELLENT JOB GUYS..KEEP THESE VIDEOS COMING..😊
The Piper Cherokkee I have found is a very good aircraft for spinning training. The PA28 is very positive in all aspects of spinning, but one must be aware that you can run into high speed stalling in any aircraft recovering from spinning. I was asked to demonstrate spinning in a Commercial Flight test and passed with flying colours so to speake.!! The PA 28 Cherokke would be one of the best general aviation aircraft that has even been designed. A very stable aircraft and capiable of showing 106kts in the cruise on higher power settings.
Excellent vid. Thanks
The December 2018 FAA Air Service Bulletin that requires all Piper Cherokee and Arrow aircraft to have their wing spars checked for cracks, should be added to this video.
Now AD 2020-24-05, effective 12-28-2020. I just bought within the last 2 weeks a Cherokee, my first Piper, and a C-414, my third twin Cessna.
I grew up around airplanes all my life, my uncle had a Tri Pacer and a Cessna high wings he liked the ground visibility they had, my first choice always was the Cherokee.
I didn't review all of the comments, but I think it's important to look at the development history of the Cherokee and its connection to Fred Weick and the Ercoupe: the Cherokee and Ercoupe share the "dish" just aft and below the wing leading edge, high angle dihedral, and wide gear stance.
Great video - my favorite plane
Really fascinating video extolling the virtues of the Cherokee. In my youth as a lover of the old roundwing aircraft, when the first Cherokees arrived I thought it was sort of boring. But over the decades I've come to appreciate its looks. This was hurried along when I was told that Fred Weick, designer of the timeless Ercoupe/Aircoupe, was part of Piper's design team. I've even developed an affection for the original Cherokee hershey-bar wing! While its true that the Cessna 172 has become the GA trainer of choice for most, this video makes me want to pay far more attention to the Cherokee and its subsequent incarnations than I had before. Thanks!
Having a couple thousand hours flying both C172/182 and PA-28, both as pilot and as CFI, I long preferred the Cherokee to the Skyhawk. However, that being said, I love anything with wings and an engine, as long as I'm flying.
Great video of a classic little plane thank you 😎
hope to see this on msfs2020 soon!
Prouder than ever of my 180. 👍
I loved my 180
The PA28 Cherokee is a very practical aircraft. An aircraft that will outdo I belive a cessna172 in rough weather. The PA28 is very controllable in 40kt winds, an attribute on cross country flying with marginal weather. The PA28 is a very stable instrument platform, for the basic to advance pilot.
The PA28 is a very good aircraft for demonstrating advanced stalling and spinning. I have done hours of it in the PA28. It also is prone to high-speed stalling out of a dive or steep descent, which is good to learn. But very controllable,.Cross country flying at 2500 R.P.M one can cruise with a load at 100kts. Fuel range is excellent. The PA28 on a 4-hour cross country is very comfortable. The elevator trim tab is very effective.
My dad owned a Cherokee 180 for 25 years. I grew-up in that plane. He was a great pilot. I flew with him all over the Northeast. He sold the plane and the guy that bought it ended up killing himself and his wife in CT when he mistook a parking lot for an airfield and descended early hitting a ridge at night. Goodbye N8826J. You were a good friend! The photos of "my dad's" wrecked plane made me sick.
www.kathrynsreport.com/2012/11/canton-connecticut-two-killed-in-plane.html
That's a nice shout out to the CAP at the end
I remember when I first flew the cherokee. up until that point I had around 50 hrs in a 172. When I flew the cherokee, the differences were instantly noticeble, from take off to landing , and everything in between, the handling was much better.
Great none bias reviews. Thanks.
I personally like the low wing. The Piper Archer is a great plane. It lands gracefully and is easy to control. It’s just big enough for general transportation for four people.
I owned one of each and did not find an overwhelming characteristic in either. I slightly preferred the Cessna for the downward visibility. And (for the ones I owned), the cessna was slightly faster though not enough to be a deciding factor.
A fantastic video and a great voice!
Amazing video! I had no idea about the advantages of Piper low wing design. ...I am not a pilot though...and as a passenger I still think that Cessna provides better visibility and comfort. Sitting in the Piper, it feels like your leaning back.....
I got to fly a Bellanca 79 Viking turbo prop, and a Mooney low wing which had manual crank RG. 4 years in mostly a 59 Tripacer though.
Great Video! As usual with A2A: attention to details.
Interesting, I have always wondered about the differences, I have quite a bit of time in Cessna's, but have never flown a Cherokee or any Piper aircraft.
Both these aircraft can hold their own with today's plastic wonders they got it right with both of them....i always feel safer surrounded by rivets rather than glue.....the guy's who made this video know their stuff............
The one place I feel the low wing is superior for sure is crosswind landings. I've always kind of thought of it as surfing (low wing) and hang gliding (high wing). I learned in a 172 but I own a Cherokee 180... I think the Piper flies better but I never turn down a chance to fly a Cessna or anything else for that matter! Good video, great explanation.
I just really like the piper I like these planes a lot.
A2a should also make a Cherokee 140 with a different kind of Cherokee cockpit
Like X plane ;)
Not only is there an advantage in visibility while flying and in the landing pattern, also an in visibility while taxiing on the ground. No need to park angled towards the approach end of the runway for run-up. Unless you're on a sight-seeing tour, I can't see any real advantage of a high-wing. The only thing I would change about these planes would be the addition of another door. If only Piper would re-manufacture the Cherokee 140/150 at a reasonable price point, they would own the flight training market, and vastly increase demand for the rest of their product line.
Lots of advantages.
Better view down for traffic avoidance.
Easier entry and exit.
No fuel pump required.
Wing struts can be in tension and used to make a lighter and less intrusive wing structure (the very few low wings that are strutted have struts in compression which are always weaker... and the Cherokee has a cantilever wing which interrupts the cabin with a centre section).
Shade.
Shelter.
Obstacle clearance.
Larger flaps.
Hangar helpers (boats, cars, etc) can be stored underneath.
Oh... and even upward visibility isn’t necessarily hampered by high wings. Look at a Cessna Cardinal or a Cessna Skymaster. Both have as good or better upward visibility than the Cherokee series.
Yup you either looking above the wing or under it.
I can show you a dime on the ground at 1000 in either.
Both are great aircraft
Nice video and have been in aviation a long time as pilot and engineer. Sadly Embry Riddle lost a Piper Aero to wing spar cap fatigue early this year. It is a strong wing but as they get older and high cycles (for a GA plane) they need to be inspected more.
gmcjetpilot Agreed, that corrosion due to dissimilar metals should have been caught. As a cherokee pilot, glad my plane was unaffected, but also glad to see an AD come out on them. It’s sad accidents have to happen at all, but at least each one makes GA safer.
One of the best training and sport plane in the world ever made
Love that flying tail. You can make some good landings.
Flown each C-172 & PA-28 over 100hrs, great GA planes however I stay with the Cherokees
Excellent video! I am in the market to buy an older airplane. I had pretty much decided on an early 60s Cessna 172. Maybe I should find someone to take me up in a Cherokee.
There were planes before the Cherokee that didn't have struts such as the Bellanca Cruisair from 1937 and the Ercoupe also from 1937. The Bonanza first flew in 1945. The Navion was from near the same time.
the ercoupe of the late 30's had such a wing before the bonanza it broke the mold
Lol. I love the ercoupe. When I was a teenager we had a couple at the local flight school. I wanted to buy one of those things for the past 40 years. Converted of course.
The Ercoupe was designed by the same guy who designed the Cherokee: Fred Weick.
this video is nice technical video explained in a simple way love it please make similar videos
A lot of people didn't know it but there was an AD on the spar at one time and people had to have the wings removed to be checked.
After a lot of people paid big bucks for the AD is was discovered that nobody found any issues and the AD was rescinded.
Seems one broke up in flight and the FAA got paranoid.
When I bought my first 140 my AME said that it was a good thing I was after the fact.$$$$$$$$$
That AD was issued (1986?) after a 10, 000 hour Archer lost a wing while doing pipeline inspections.
I have been an A&P SINCE 1969 , I like flying the Cherokee series. But I find the Skyhawk somewhat easier to maintain. Also on our flight school planes the main gear leg on the PA 28 kept shaking loose from the spar attach point.
Love these planes,......................Pipers live forever
Oh boy. Sim folk talking real planes. Boring. Not. Fantastic info on the Cherokee.
Either kissing the front of the CG envelope or kissing MTOW to get it aft. The 140 is really more of a 2 person aircraft in practicality from my experience.
Best Airport to Airport aircraft and man that 50 gallons is nice!
I have only flown a Cherokee once. But I want one!
Loved it
Good job guys, but you are wrong about one thing; "You can put a Cherokee down on a rocky or muddy field one wheel at-a-time in a 19 knots cross wind and it will work better on 3/4 flaps.
I generally like the Pipers better, except in the pattern, where downward visibility is limited, I will actually fly a low wing slightly below TPA, hoping hi-wing (Cessna) persons fly slightly higher.
Actually I think there should be regulatory promotion of this safety tip. i.e. hi-wing stay 50 feet higher then TPA and low-wing stay 50 feet lower then TPA...
I don't think this is a good idea, because overtaking is a huge risk, and if you're flying different altitudes it's harder to see that.
Great video!
awesome thanks for the information..
Did my private and instrument in a 172. Transitioned to a Piper Seneca for my multi and couldn’t believe how much better the low wing Pipers fly. Bumpy and twitchy, the 172 is a lot more work to fly and doesn’t fly smoothly at all. In 2022 the Cessnas are beyond overpriced both new and used for their capabilities and performance. I can’t believe more schools don’t use Pipers for initial trainers. I have since had a chance to try out a Cherokee 160 and I will be buying a Piper as my first airplane. I love the Mooneys as well, but for now going to stick to a simple aircraft for ownership.
As a CFI, no question about it. The Cherokee made a better trainer.
Did not read all the comments, but the 172S is a 180hp so comparing it to the 180 cherokee is correct.
Excelent video!
Great, informative Vid... Thanks... Learning on Cessna aircraft, I naturally like "high-wing" VS low wing... (Ever see a "low-wing" Bird?) Nope - gotta be a reason nature made 'em that way.... The US Air Force big Transport C-17 is a work of art.... The DeHavelin, C-7A Carabu looks like a Pelican - UGLY but ENTIRELY FUNCTIONAL.... Also, you left out "ground effect" in the low/high wing argument... Overall, a GREAT Vid.... Thanks for posting.... Gordon
Tongue-in-cheek, Steve, Tongue-in-cheek.... It's a preference on my part...
:-)
One reason i like low wings is in pattern and turning you can see the runway
Agree....but more important to me is that I have a clear view of any unannounced traffic on long final when I'm on base, or someone entering the pattern from above into downwind when I'm on crosswind.
The Cessna 172 Skyhawk is not shedding wings