Until wages come up significantly, the price they charge won't matter. Taking a $100k truck down to $65k when a person can only afford a $30k truck will make ZERO difference. Manufacturers have a hard lesson coming their way. And rightfully so.
Unfortunately all it will do is pull more folks out of the woodwork that think they can afford a $65k truck. Then the financial gymnastics start all over again.
The truth is, about 80% of American households can comfortably afford a car that costs $23,000 or less. Automakers need to be working a lot more in this price range.
@@preeyakumari-i2qsounds like a piece of wood to me. Never heard of it. Is that a model? And the truth is that American car manufacturers have completely abandoned that segment in favor of $40k+ suvs and that decision is coming home to roost just as I told them it would 3-4 years ago when they did it.
@@steve-on3234 If enough people can't buy new cars, eventually there won't be used cars to buy. Once they figure out sourcing to dodge tariffs, Chinese carmakers are going to drop 30 million vehicles a year into the US market and destroy the incumbents within a couple of years. They will be able to sell new cars to people that will be cheaper than keeping their old cars on the road.
ya i tried that at a CDJR dealer few months ago. They claimed their 110k trucks were selling just fine and they wouldnt cut me a deal. which was fine bc i was there to buy a used ford 🤣🤣 i was laughing so hard in the finance room, those guys tried to sell me packages that totaled 70% of the purchase price of the car! 10k car with 7k maintenance package. gtfo. and ill be paying cash.
Walked in a Dodge Dealer 2 days ago and tried to buy a truck with a plow on it. They were confident and refused to budge. I am bashing this channel even thoughI watch it; Everything, well most everything they are saying is bullshit. Dealers are not offering a penny less than the MSRP price. And if they want to discredit me I offer them to come pick me up and shadow me in another attempt to buy a truck. This old man is clueless about reality. HE is making money talking shit. I really wish he wa correct so I could buy a truck at a valued price not robbery.
@@philrutulante6105HaHaHa. You’re not going to get a new truck for $20000. No one here believes you went to a dealer an offered them a fair price. How much did you offer.
Not only are the prices hyperinflated. The quality is complete crap across the board on all brands. They are all unreliable and all have major problems. And most people have realized it and are refusing to buy
I'm almost 50 now, and the quality of not just automobiles, but most every product is horrible anymore. Just look at appliances. My parents owned a microwave that lasted well over 40 years. That stuff doesn't happen anymore.
I've always wanted a Wrangler, if I were to buy one, it won't be any newer than a 2004. The older 4.0 V6 engines are among the most reliable engines ever built for any vehicle. They perfected it from the '70s until around 2005 when the idiots discontinued it.
I tried to buy a Jeep Gladiator last week and they actually quoted me a price $5K higher than website price. Dealers are a joke. The dealer told me he could get more at an auction than what I was willing to pay. I sad that might your best option. The vehicle had been on your lot for 488 days and has zero miles on it which means no one has even inquired to test drive it.
Choosing to stick with my 1999 Mirage over the years, while seeing the misery unfolding at dealerships today, it brings a big smile to my face. People choose car payments. They are not forced. However, if everyone bought older cars, they wouldn't be cheap either.
@@Spaethon You are absolutely correct. I dont need that car, but they need to sell it. I can drive my car for the next 10 years and not feel left behind. Dealers don't like me. I show up once every 10 years and pay cash. I am not who they want to see.
The buyer with the cash will have the upper hand in any deal for a vehicle... If you get thrown out your doing the right thing... Another vehicle is coming down the line,catch the next bus. With many dealers who cares about the dealers profits...
I live in California and have two cars. Recently, my auto insurance premium increased by 100%. While I can afford to buy a new car, I don't think I will because the auto insurance for it will likely be very expensive. On top of my car payment, I'll have to double my insurance payment, not to mention the maintenance costs. -
Ray, that LA Gladiator was listed at $18,338 on their website. It was there for perhaps a day until the price went away then finally reappeared. Today (18 January 2025) it is listed at $38,350.
Are you kidding? 35% off when they went up 50% and higher in the beginning? At present, take home wages will never meet these obnoxiously high prices. Because of high interest rates, insurance, etc, etc. no wonder the OEMs and dealers are hurting. You can sum it all up to one word, GREED, GREED, GREED.
Your math is all wrong! If a $50000 vehicle went up 50%, it now would be $75000. If you take 35% off, it now goes for $48500. You're thinking prices doubled, which they didn't. That would be 100% markup.
I'm actively shopping in SoCal for a 2024 Wrangler Sport/S 4dr, V6 non-etorque, auto trans. I'm holding out for 30% below MSRP, and removing/deeply reducing all add-on's. So far with dealer discounts and factory incentives, it's getting close. I hope to buy before March. Wish me luck.
Yup,been trying to buy a gladiator for a year. I can absolutely afford their new stupid pricing, but I refuse. It’s not worth the money they’re asking.
Ray, we need to coin a new term: "Reverse Dealer Markup (RDM)." When supply was low dealers screwed customers. Now that supply is choking dealers, the new market adjustment is $5000 - $10,000 in the customers favor (lower price). If dealers have to get that from the manufacturer, so be it. Or just use the ADMs you charged the last few years to pay for the RDM. The dealers did save that usury level profit for a rainy day didn't they?
"Select vehicles" have 15% off. Looking at my local dealers, discounts have grown. But no 35% yet. I'm only looking at 2024 V6 auto 4 door Wrangler Rubicons because that's the only thing I want. The biggest discount I saw before the year turn was $8000. Today, it's $8645. Pretty random and only a few of the in stock units with this discount. Nothing under $50k so I'll continue to wait.
One of the main reasons Americans cannot get financially ahead is because they take loans out on depreciating assets. I drive my '90s car because it's paid off, insurance is 42 bucks a month, 35 mpg, and maintained responsibly over the years. To each their own!
Absolutely. I find it hilarious they equip those things with air conditioning, let alone the other nonsense. The new wranglers have a laundry list of pointless crap. Give me no carpet, no upholstery, no cruise control, no lane assist, no backup camera, a real key, crank windows, manual locks, gearbox, the whole basic 9 yards.
Great show guys. I think all vehicles should be $50,000 and under nothing out there is worth 50,000. No reason to be this high. Most cant afford these prices.
I'm one of those buyers of means they talked about and I think 48k for the average transaction is ridiculous. I bought a new car last summer and wasn't going to spend over 32k. As it ended up I got exactly what I wanted for 28k. I paid cash as well. I can't imagine having a freaking $750-$1200 car payment every month for years. The reality is most people can't really afford what they're driving.
Comparing a dealer selling a vehicle that isnt his to a house that someone owns is completely different negotiations. Especially when the offer for the car was within 10 percent of asking price compared to the house offer that's off by 20 percent.
We're going to find out what happens with tariffs next week. If carmakers have to tack on an additional 25% on the prices of vehicles made in Mexico, Japan and Canada, then people are going to buy the existing inventory that aren't subject to tariffs. So it is possible that dealers get a bailout because the new stuff retail cost goes way up. I'm a Camry buyer and they make them in Georgetown, Kentucky with high US content - so I'm thinking that the prices go up because US-made cars have a big price advantage - but they could just raise the price because a lot of other cars then cost more with the tariffs. Things are by no means certain for 2025.
Good point. The auto industry will market the crap out of "tariffs are here, buy cheaper while you can" rhetoric. Something I read the other day: If you take a $717 monthly car payment and invest that monthly amount at 10% instead, you'll have 1.4 million dollars in 30 years.
@@sabanite08 He implemented tariffs on solar panels, washing machines, steel, aluminum and a broad range of Chinese products. I have no recollection of tariffs on automobiles. Did he put tariffs on autos in his first term?
There is only 15% discount near me so far and only on 2024's nothing new has a discount. Also this is only at Dodge/Ram/Jeep haven't seen much of a discount at Ford or Chevy maybe $2-3K at max, Chevy had some good sales at Xmas but those are all gone. That happened to me with an 23 F350 that was advertised for $56k but the window price on the lot was $66k and I offered $50k thinking we could meet somewhere in the middle but they didn't even counter and sold it to someone else, but it really saved me my income got cut in half during the holidays and still hasn't rebounded yet. Still won't go back to that dealer because they really just tried to screw me on that price.
I’m retired. And to be honest when I need a car, I cannot afford a new car. I can get a certified pre owned car with a lot of looking and a willingness to walk away. But new cars and trucks are out of reach! Social Security says the cost of living only increased 2.5% 😳. Yet cars have doubled in price since 2020. How did Jeep go from 30k to 60k? If you discount 15%, you’re still WAY too high! Anyways, OEM’s & dealers need to wake up or burn up!
Another component dont forget about regional pricing because prices can vary alot depending on what state you live in i saved my brother in law 10,000 dollars on his brand new sivlerado 2500 hd z71 by convincing him to drive an hour from where he lived
Its hilarious these guys are saying vehicles should be 35% off msrp but then they say dont you dare ask for that discount at the dealership beacuse its insulting to the dealer and they will throw you out. This is the problem
Went to dealership a month ago to get a price on a 2024 Ram 3500 that had been on their lot for nine months. $94,000 retail they said best price was $88,500. It’s still on the lot and now is priced at $80,000. Would have bought it at that price except now I hear Ram is going to discount retail 30% which would bring the price to $65,000. I’ll wait and buy a 2025 instead of a year old truck.
So let me get this straight. You guys spend a ton of effort criticizing manufacturers and dealerships of a 40% + price hike since 2019…yet criticize a customer for not taking a 25% cut at $32K for a Jeep? And throwing out the customer for wanting the additional 3% under the $30K??? Sorry guys but you both need a cold shower on the market. Go ahead…throw out the customer! We’re pulling for out of touch industry greed exactly like this going down in flames. Get serious will you? This entire sham is still ridiculous. Throwing the customer out on 3%…you’re out of your minds!
I’m gonna have to get another car. This Dodge grand minivan has been great but I wore the old girl out and this channel is gonna help me get a better deal. Besides, I help the little guy men in the little TH-camrs out the Highlander😊
50 cents on the dollar on select few. No point in fishing for a deal on a auto that is short lived and trouble prone. Middle class its all about middle class
What costs more, a new car or rebuilding cars from 20-50 years ago? I imagine the volume of rebuildable cars and parts are low but if there are enough bodies there is a market to manufacture parts for them. I am starting to wish I invested time into being a mechanic or engineer because I would rebuild classics or even old budget cars.. what ever I could rebuild at half the price of new cars and bring to the market what customers want.
Most people in these comment sections have no real idea why vehicles or products cost as much as they do. It typically comes down to corporate greed and capitalism which just reinforces ignorance. While greed plays a role you also have to look at government, domestic and foreign, labor costs and related industries which drive up expenses. I do agree though dealers have been taking advantage and some manufactures like Stellantis have lost their minds. haha! For example, the following is from Jan 2024. The average American auto assembly line worker earns considerably more than the average American. "The significant increase in labor costs initiated by the recent UAW settlement will be expensive for American vehicle manufacturers. Under the new contract, the average salary and benefits package for an assembly line worker at GM will be $80,034 annually. An average Ford plant employee will make $74,691 yearly. Overall General Motors’ annual labor costs will rise by $9.3 billion, Ford’s will go up by $8.8 billion. These additional labor costs will add about $900 to the price of a new vehicle."
I have been looking at the ram trucks online( and I’m not looking at the top tier models) and even when you take 35% off ( and that doesn’t include the doc & other B.S. Fees and taxes) when you factor in the interest rate and put 10k down for 60 months it’s still a pretty healthy payment. And as he said, that’s because they’re very overpriced to begin with .
After shoveling snow I think that I have a better term than Reverse Dealer Markup. Additional Customer Discount (ACD). About 16 million vehicles were sold in 2024 versus about 17 million in 2019. People in the USA need to stop buying new vehicles until the pricing drops substantially (35 - 40%). Plus each new vehicle needs a bumper to bumper 100,000 mile warranty to account for the low quality vehicles being produced. Add another 10% discount for vehicles that were previously made in the USA and production moved to Mexico or Canada (anywhere not in the USA).
I have a 2018 Ram 2500 6.7 with the ABS HCU issue. Current miles are 94k. Had this issue, constantly, since 50k miles. If you drive a vehicle and you hear the audible "ding" every 5 seconds for 500 miles, it will get on your nerves. Stellantis says its now a recall and for me, have stated they fixed this issue at the 20k mile mark. I say, if it was "fixed", then why am I still experiencing the same issue. They are trying to wash their hands of this issue quick, fast and in a hurry. I believe that Stellantis will be sold soon.
I don't recall you mentioning it, but there's a change in the buying population for cars that is more than price. There's a tremendous number of people in or nearing retirement that, in retirement, will not need to drive as much. Thus, many of these people will very likely opt to keep the cars they have, particularly since their driving miles will probably be reduced and, living on retirement income, most will be less able to afford the expense of a new car. Between the large segment of the working population that cannot afford a very expensive car and the retirement community that doesn't need a new car, IMO the demand for new cars is diminished. Yes, the overall demand for cars may increase slightly year-to-year, but not at the historical pace. Manufacturers need to figure out a way to reduce production, produce cars that people can afford (at various price points) AND still make a profit for themselves, as well as the dealerships. With all of this said, the incoming administration's threat of tariffs will only make everything worse, IMO, both in terms of higher prices for the consumer and increased difficulty for the manufacturers and dealers to plan and manage their businesses.
Americans are paying way to many taxes like property tax school tax which 70% of which goes towards pensions that American taxpayers shouldn't be responsible for. That would be a start. 😊
I saw a 2024 Jeep Sport S hardtop that was fully loaded for $40k after discounts with an MSRP of $47,250. Thing is, with the galvanic corrosion problem, poor gas mileage, and questionable reliability, I simply couldn’t go near it. Sad.
Ray I generally agree with your inputs/advice but in the case of offering 3k less for a vehicle that's been on the lot for 300+ days That's not an absurdly low offer. U can meet in the middle. My friend bought a house for 550k that was listed for 700k (dn from 800k) & on the market for 1.5 years. The person just wanted out of it and took it . I've seen this with cars too! U said they're losing money everyday especially on cars that have sat on the lot for 200 300 days
So, the only way you can check the oil level on a new ram is electronically on the dash, what if that goes out? They couldn't just add a dipstick also? The transmission can't be serviced by me so I'll need a new one at 100'000 miles? The problem with new vehicles is they are to complex and designed by engineers that should be shot. I was considering a new ram but no oil dip stick? Really? It seems like most vehicles today are designed to buy run for 3-4 before big problems pop up trade in and get another one. These overly new complex vehicles these days benefit people who buy a new vehicle every 3 or 4 years and trade them in just oil changes and tire rotations and that's it unless of course there's major recalls.....
A real solid, American pickup shouldn’t cost 100$k; especially when most of them aren’t even built in America , and with Chinese parts. It’s a well known rule of thumb a new car loses 1/2 its value driving off the lot; if that is seemingly by design, perhaps the market will respond… I can’t imagine why people would avoid blatantly predatory car loans, especially on vehicles of such sub-par quality…..
Toyota just announced they will be selling a new 4 dr sedan BEV for $13,800 with about 300 miles range. I'd wager 30% of the IC new cars will lose their customers to the BEV.
Check out Rhythm Dodge in Nashville . 2024 Jeep Gladiator Mohave msrp $67,985 -$23,582 discount down to $44,403. I would still negotiate between other dealers in the area to get them to beat it.
I respectfully disagree to what Ray just said about pissing the dealer off. As a salesman, my job was never to get mad, especially on behalf of the dealer. You make a lowball offer - that’s fine, give me a deposit to prove you’re interested. I’ll take your offer to my sales manager… Several times my manager would storm into my office after presenting a low ball offer, and within 5 minutes, “we” sold the vehicle. Or, you can piss your buyer off, throw him out and kiss his ass goodbye. Is that your business plan? And you’ve been selling cars since 1977? Things that make me go “Hmmmmm…” 🤷♂️
Great point Ray about the affordability crisis. Plus all the idiots who paid over MSRP for new cars that they allegedly “needed” didn’t help either. I don’t feel bad for them at all, they can eat that negative equity for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. 😂
Maybe you can't get more money off the advertised "best price," but I would get them to throw in an extended warranty. You're going to need it with a jeep.
We need new vehicles in price range $25K to $35K that are decent quality and decent features. No one "needs" a $50K+ vehicle. I'm waiting for the total crash to buy my next vehicle...
Not true. $22k off my new Rubicon Gladiator was good enough for me and the people who keep buying them. I'm not sure if the sports will sell out but the Rubicons and Mojaves are moving fast.
The fundamental problem driving all of this is devaluation of the dollar due to irresponsible monetary policy. We as blue collar consumers are having difficulty building WEALTH because the inflation rate has been higher than the savings rates. The only people who can build wealth are those who have a lot of wealth to invest in instruments that will yield higher returns than the inflation rate. We are seeing the same phenomenon in the housing industry. It’s gotten to the point where it’s nearly impossible for someone who is making the median national income to afford a home… and rents are almost as bad. The automakers haven’t helped themselves out any either. Inflation is to many dollars chasing to few products. To address inflation we can either reduce the dollars in circulation or by increasing production. The auto industry has the ability to focus their production on massive amounts of inexpensive vehicles rather than producing a smaller number of higher end vehicles. High quality vehicles have a longer service life which means more vehicles on the market… reducing inflation. Therefore if the auto industry focuses on production volume and quality then the cost of vehicles will improve. The government is already knee deep in regulating the auto industry. I’m not a fan of government intervention in the free market… but perhaps it is time to consider either increased regulation of the industry… in an effort to mandate the production of less expensive vehicles… or to start a state owned auto industry that would focus on inexpensive reliable vehicles rather than on high profit vehicles. I would love to see a state factory that would church out clones of 1990 era Toyota trucks, Jeep Cherokees, Chrysler Mini Vans, Honda Civics, and 1980s era Chevy trucks. These vehicle designs are all proven, practical, have all the bugs worked out, and efficient for their purposes. With modern equipment churning out vehicles 24/7/365 these vehicles could be produced for an input cost of roughly $7500.
Except of course they would have retool the factories to make the old stuff negating cost savings, plus the cost of all steel stuff would be too costly
You people don’t really think stellantis is going to magically drop the price of their vehicles by 35% do you? Do you? Because I assure you they aren’t.
I can buy a 40K car...I won't...Its at a point where its not economically viable. I want my nice retirement and having a new car will stand in the way.
Inflation is killing the world. Wait till t sends immigrants back home inflation could double. My previous insurance company doubled in 2 years. So I switched. These natural disasters will raise insurance rates even more. Families can't afford 60 k vehicle unless you're lucky to make over 100k. Manufacturers have to get their crap in order otherwise Major layoffs that lead to more layoffs. We're facing the 2006 to 2009 crash . disaster.
Jeep gladiator kept pushing cars out the way on highway, got to my 1995 yukon and only seen the taillights. No v8 option, either way I'd avoid jeep even if it was offered free to me! No way I'd want to be seen in that pos vehicle.
“You’re wasting my time”… ok go back to your lot or desk and “wait” for another sale to come along. That Gladiator, I start at $27,500 and if the salesman laughs ok, good luck continuing to lose value on your lot!
This conversation sounds bias! we can be offended with these extravagant prices, but dealers can't be offended with an offer.??? whats reality when theres a 50% mark up in 3 years..... WHAT
Until wages come up significantly, the price they charge won't matter. Taking a $100k truck down to $65k when a person can only afford a $30k truck will make ZERO difference. Manufacturers have a hard lesson coming their way. And rightfully so.
They still get bailed out tho
Unfortunately all it will do is pull more folks out of the woodwork that think they can afford a $65k truck. Then the financial gymnastics start all over again.
Wages will never to increase enough to offset the higher prices.
@@dexvision10 I wish we could get debt out of vehicles. I don't understand why people are willing to become slaves for a depreciating asset.
If wages go up, prices go up. That’s how it works.
The truth is, about 80% of American households can comfortably afford a car that costs $23,000 or less. Automakers need to be working a lot more in this price range.
They already have those it’s called a 2 by 2
Most people have no business buying a new car rather than used.
@@preeyakumari-i2qsounds like a piece of wood to me. Never heard of it. Is that a model? And the truth is that American car manufacturers have completely abandoned that segment in favor of $40k+ suvs and that decision is coming home to roost just as I told them it would 3-4 years ago when they did it.
@@steve-on3234 If enough people can't buy new cars, eventually there won't be used cars to buy. Once they figure out sourcing to dodge tariffs, Chinese carmakers are going to drop 30 million vehicles a year into the US market and destroy the incumbents within a couple of years. They will be able to sell new cars to people that will be cheaper than keeping their old cars on the road.
I went to a Dodge dealer this week to look at used and leftover Challengers. They wont budge on pricing even though they still have new 2023s!..
ya i tried that at a CDJR dealer few months ago. They claimed their 110k trucks were selling just fine and they wouldnt cut me a deal. which was fine bc i was there to buy a used ford 🤣🤣 i was laughing so hard in the finance room, those guys tried to sell me packages that totaled 70% of the purchase price of the car! 10k car with 7k maintenance package. gtfo. and ill be paying cash.
Greedy fools. If they want to fall on their own sword so be it..
They will have no choice soon.
Walked in a Dodge Dealer 2 days ago and tried to buy a truck with a plow on it. They were confident and refused to budge. I am bashing this channel even thoughI watch it; Everything, well most everything they are saying is bullshit. Dealers are not offering a penny less than the MSRP price. And if they want to discredit me I offer them to come pick me up and shadow me in another attempt to buy a truck. This old man is clueless about reality. HE is making money talking shit. I really wish he wa correct so I could buy a truck at a valued price not robbery.
@@philrutulante6105HaHaHa. You’re not going to get a new truck for $20000. No one here believes you went to a dealer an offered them a fair price. How much did you offer.
Not only are the prices hyperinflated. The quality is complete crap across the board on all brands. They are all unreliable and all have major problems. And most people have realized it and are refusing to buy
I'm almost 50 now, and the quality of not just automobiles, but most every product is horrible anymore. Just look at appliances. My parents owned a microwave that lasted well over 40 years. That stuff doesn't happen anymore.
The EPA requires all 2025 pickups to get 38.2 miles per gallon. A lot of this crap is a result of government regulation.
@Spaethon There's a new sheriff in town now, so time will tell if that remains the norm or not.
They can barely make it out of warranty before they start chucking failed parts.
I live in Sacramento, California, STILL waiting for that 35% discount on Jeeps here!
I remember jeep wranglers soft tops were 25k brand new a few years ago.
I've always wanted a Wrangler, if I were to buy one, it won't be any newer than a 2004. The older 4.0 V6 engines are among the most reliable engines ever built for any vehicle. They perfected it from the '70s until around 2005 when the idiots discontinued it.
I tried to buy a Jeep Gladiator last week and they actually quoted me a price $5K higher than website price. Dealers are a joke. The dealer told me he could get more at an auction than what I was willing to pay. I sad that might your best option. The vehicle had been on your lot for 488 days and has zero miles on it which means no one has even inquired to test drive it.
It's illegal to charge more than the written advertised price.
Choosing to stick with my 1999 Mirage over the years, while seeing the misery unfolding at dealerships today, it brings a big smile to my face.
People choose car payments. They are not forced. However, if everyone bought older cars, they wouldn't be cheap either.
@@Spaethon You are absolutely correct. I dont need that car, but they need to sell it. I can drive my car for the next 10 years and not feel left behind. Dealers don't like me. I show up once every 10 years and pay cash. I am not who they want to see.
The buyer with the cash will have the upper hand in any deal for a vehicle...
If you get thrown out your doing the right thing...
Another vehicle is coming down the line,catch the next bus.
With many dealers who cares about the dealers profits...
They talk like you can hurt a car dealers feelings😂
I live in California and have two cars. Recently, my auto insurance premium increased by 100%. While I can afford to buy a new car, I don't think I will because the auto insurance for it will likely be very expensive. On top of my car payment, I'll have to double my insurance payment, not to mention the maintenance costs. -
Ray, that LA Gladiator was listed at $18,338 on their website. It was there for perhaps a day until the price went away then finally reappeared. Today (18 January 2025) it is listed at $38,350.
Subaru warned Dealerships not the gouge when times were good (for Dealerships) because their customer base will remember it when times are bad
Are you kidding? 35% off when they went up 50% and higher in the beginning? At present, take home wages will never meet these obnoxiously high prices. Because of high interest rates, insurance, etc, etc. no wonder the OEMs and dealers are hurting. You can sum it all up to one word, GREED, GREED, GREED.
Your math is all wrong! If a $50000 vehicle went up 50%, it now would be $75000. If you take 35% off, it now goes for $48500. You're thinking prices doubled, which they didn't. That would be 100% markup.
@@MazichMusic Still a ripoff.
Greed is a large portion, but not all. Most people make more today, so prices can only come down so much.
@@MazichMusic Fair, but that's around where it would have sold pre-pandemic with low rates. Prices will have to be far lower...or they give 0% rates.
If they actually take 35% off, they’ll start moving inventory. It will put them below the competition.
I'm actively shopping in SoCal for a 2024 Wrangler Sport/S 4dr, V6 non-etorque, auto trans. I'm holding out for 30% below MSRP, and removing/deeply reducing all add-on's. So far with dealer discounts and factory incentives, it's getting close. I hope to buy before March. Wish me luck.
Yup,been trying to buy a gladiator for a year. I can absolutely afford their new stupid pricing, but I refuse. It’s not worth the money they’re asking.
Couldn’t afford new car if there was 0% interest. Prices are insanely stupid
He's a traitor he was talking to Tommy
Ray, we need to coin a new term: "Reverse Dealer Markup (RDM)." When supply was low dealers screwed customers. Now that supply is choking dealers, the new market adjustment is $5000 - $10,000 in the customers favor (lower price). If dealers have to get that from the manufacturer, so be it. Or just use the ADMs you charged the last few years to pay for the RDM. The dealers did save that usury level profit for a rainy day didn't they?
No, they used on new boats.
"Select vehicles" have 15% off. Looking at my local dealers, discounts have grown. But no 35% yet. I'm only looking at 2024 V6 auto 4 door Wrangler Rubicons because that's the only thing I want. The biggest discount I saw before the year turn was $8000. Today, it's $8645. Pretty random and only a few of the in stock units with this discount. Nothing under $50k so I'll continue to wait.
Be in shop every month cause something’s wrong with it. Garbage not the same!!!
Definitely if it's what you want keep waiting.
@@fredp3088 yup your right something better will come along in the future hopefully 🤞
One of the main reasons Americans cannot get financially ahead is because they take loans out on depreciating assets.
I drive my '90s car because it's paid off, insurance is 42 bucks a month, 35 mpg, and maintained responsibly over the years. To each their own!
@@Spaethon yes you are right but some like there toys lol
No keep is worth more than 25k.
And that’s pushing it.
Absolutely. I find it hilarious they equip those things with air conditioning, let alone the other nonsense. The new wranglers have a laundry list of pointless crap. Give me no carpet, no upholstery, no cruise control, no lane assist, no backup camera, a real key, crank windows, manual locks, gearbox, the whole basic 9 yards.
35% + Low Interest Rates like 1.9% to help people get out of current vehicle loans
Wish we could get 60-70% and normal rates. Always bailing out the financially illiterate as usual....the American way.
Great show guys. I think all vehicles should be $50,000 and under nothing out there is worth 50,000. No reason to be this high. Most cant afford these prices.
Love you guys, always waiting for a new video
I'm one of those buyers of means they talked about and I think 48k for the average transaction is ridiculous. I bought a new car last summer and wasn't going to spend over 32k. As it ended up I got exactly what I wanted for 28k. I paid cash as well. I can't imagine having a freaking $750-$1200 car payment every month for years. The reality is most people can't really afford what they're driving.
Comparing a dealer selling a vehicle that isnt his to a house that someone owns is completely different negotiations. Especially when the offer for the car was within 10 percent of asking price compared to the house offer that's off by 20 percent.
In Philadelphia, PA, we love Ray!
We're going to find out what happens with tariffs next week. If carmakers have to tack on an additional 25% on the prices of vehicles made in Mexico, Japan and Canada, then people are going to buy the existing inventory that aren't subject to tariffs. So it is possible that dealers get a bailout because the new stuff retail cost goes way up. I'm a Camry buyer and they make them in Georgetown, Kentucky with high US content - so I'm thinking that the prices go up because US-made cars have a big price advantage - but they could just raise the price because a lot of other cars then cost more with the tariffs. Things are by no means certain for 2025.
Good point. The auto industry will market the crap out of "tariffs are here, buy cheaper while you can" rhetoric.
Something I read the other day:
If you take a $717 monthly car payment and invest that monthly amount at 10% instead, you'll have 1.4 million dollars in 30 years.
That didn't happen when Trump added tariffs last time
@@sabanite08 He implemented tariffs on solar panels, washing machines, steel, aluminum and a broad range of Chinese products. I have no recollection of tariffs on automobiles. Did he put tariffs on autos in his first term?
There is only 15% discount near me so far and only on 2024's nothing new has a discount. Also this is only at Dodge/Ram/Jeep haven't seen much of a discount at Ford or Chevy maybe $2-3K at max, Chevy had some good sales at Xmas but those are all gone. That happened to me with an 23 F350 that was advertised for $56k but the window price on the lot was $66k and I offered $50k thinking we could meet somewhere in the middle but they didn't even counter and sold it to someone else, but it really saved me my income got cut in half during the holidays and still hasn't rebounded yet. Still won't go back to that dealer because they really just tried to screw me on that price.
10% at the dealership near me
search this 2024 National Standalone 20% Below MSRP (1/B/L/E)
I’m retired. And to be honest when I need a car, I cannot afford a new car. I can get a certified pre owned car with a lot of looking and a willingness to walk away. But new cars and trucks are out of reach! Social Security says the cost of living only increased 2.5% 😳. Yet cars have doubled in price since 2020. How did Jeep go from 30k to 60k? If you discount 15%, you’re still WAY too high! Anyways, OEM’s & dealers need to wake up or burn up!
60% still won’t be enough to buy a vehicle built by Stellantis from 22-25 model years. PERIOD.
anyone remember when buick made a truck? those things were going for 7-8 grand two years later.
Another component dont forget about regional pricing because prices can vary alot depending on what state you live in i saved my brother in law 10,000 dollars on his brand new sivlerado 2500 hd z71 by convincing him to drive an hour from where he lived
Where
Ray is right on. Even though he can’t say apocalypse!
@@PBurns-d4w No he isn’t. He blew it on throwing out the customer on a mere 3% desire for under 30K price point. He still needs to wake up.
Its hilarious these guys are saying vehicles should be 35% off msrp but then they say dont you dare ask for that discount at the dealership beacuse its insulting to the dealer and they will throw you out. This is the problem
Wife just got a 2025 Honda HRV Sport 31k out the door. Nice little SUV.
And it depreciated thousands as soon as it left the lot. Should have bought used.
@@gan_the_white wow had no idea 😀 thanks
Toyota was taken off $1000 on Corolla in central Florida
Went to dealership a month ago to get a price on a 2024 Ram 3500 that had been on their lot for nine months. $94,000 retail they said best price was $88,500. It’s still on the lot and now is priced at $80,000. Would have bought it at that price except now I hear Ram is going to discount retail 30% which would bring the price to $65,000. I’ll wait and buy a 2025 instead of a year old truck.
they have a new discount out for Gladiators 2024 National Standalone 20% Below MSRP (1/B/L/E)
Throw a customer out? I will never trust any sales driven industry. They laugh when a sucker gets taken advantage of.
They laugh their asses off when the customer drives away.
So let me get this straight. You guys spend a ton of effort criticizing manufacturers and dealerships of a 40% + price hike since 2019…yet criticize a customer for not taking a 25% cut at $32K for a Jeep? And throwing out the customer for wanting the additional 3% under the $30K??? Sorry guys but you both need a cold shower on the market. Go ahead…throw out the customer! We’re pulling for out of touch industry greed exactly like this going down in flames. Get serious will you? This entire sham is still ridiculous. Throwing the customer out on 3%…you’re out of your minds!
I’m gonna have to get another car. This Dodge grand minivan has been great but I wore the old girl out and this channel is gonna help me get a better deal. Besides, I help the little guy men in the little TH-camrs out the Highlander😊
So you guys reported last month that these cuts were taking place but now it seems there’s little adjustment to prices being made?
50 cents on the dollar on select few. No point in fishing for a deal on a auto that is short lived and trouble prone. Middle class its all about middle class
What costs more, a new car or rebuilding cars from 20-50 years ago? I imagine the volume of rebuildable cars and parts are low but if there are enough bodies there is a market to manufacture parts for them. I am starting to wish I invested time into being a mechanic or engineer because I would rebuild classics or even old budget cars.. what ever I could rebuild at half the price of new cars and bring to the market what customers want.
You reap what you sow...
Excellent video❤
Most people in these comment sections have no real idea why vehicles or products cost as much as they do. It typically comes down to corporate greed and capitalism which just reinforces ignorance. While greed plays a role you also have to look at government, domestic and foreign, labor costs and related industries which drive up expenses. I do agree though dealers have been taking advantage and some manufactures like Stellantis have lost their minds. haha!
For example, the following is from Jan 2024. The average American auto assembly line worker earns considerably more than the average American.
"The significant increase in labor costs initiated by the recent UAW settlement will be expensive for American vehicle manufacturers. Under the new contract, the average salary and benefits package for an assembly line worker at GM will be $80,034 annually. An average Ford plant employee will make $74,691 yearly.
Overall General Motors’ annual labor costs will rise by $9.3 billion, Ford’s will go up by $8.8 billion. These additional labor costs will add about $900 to the price of a new vehicle."
Have you checked out the prices of these cars on Mecum car auction I wonder if this has any bearing on the used car prices overall
I have been looking at the ram trucks online( and I’m not looking at the top tier models) and even when you take 35% off ( and that doesn’t include the doc & other B.S. Fees and taxes) when you factor in the interest rate and put 10k down for 60 months it’s still a pretty healthy payment. And as he said, that’s because they’re very overpriced to begin with .
After shoveling snow I think that I have a better term than Reverse Dealer Markup. Additional Customer Discount (ACD). About 16 million vehicles were sold in 2024 versus about 17 million in 2019. People in the USA need to stop buying new vehicles until the pricing drops substantially (35 - 40%). Plus each new vehicle needs a bumper to bumper 100,000 mile warranty to account for the low quality vehicles being produced. Add another 10% discount for vehicles that were previously made in the USA and production moved to Mexico or Canada (anywhere not in the USA).
Cars have always been made in Canada, what are you talking about ?
Measure the price in ounces of gold if you want to know if the cost is inflated. I have not done the math personally
I have a 2018 Ram 2500 6.7 with the ABS HCU issue. Current miles are 94k. Had this issue, constantly, since 50k miles. If you drive a vehicle and you hear the audible "ding" every 5 seconds for 500 miles, it will get on your nerves. Stellantis says its now a recall and for me, have stated they fixed this issue at the 20k mile mark. I say, if it was "fixed", then why am I still experiencing the same issue. They are trying to wash their hands of this issue quick, fast and in a hurry. I believe that Stellantis will be sold soon.
Glad I held on to my '90s car, the good old port injected engine. They are ruining the auto industry with this "disposable camera" culture.
I don't recall you mentioning it, but there's a change in the buying population for cars that is more than price. There's a tremendous number of people in or nearing retirement that, in retirement, will not need to drive as much. Thus, many of these people will very likely opt to keep the cars they have, particularly since their driving miles will probably be reduced and, living on retirement income, most will be less able to afford the expense of a new car. Between the large segment of the working population that cannot afford a very expensive car and the retirement community that doesn't need a new car, IMO the demand for new cars is diminished. Yes, the overall demand for cars may increase slightly year-to-year, but not at the historical pace. Manufacturers need to figure out a way to reduce production, produce cars that people can afford (at various price points) AND still make a profit for themselves, as well as the dealerships. With all of this said, the incoming administration's threat of tariffs will only make everything worse, IMO, both in terms of higher prices for the consumer and increased difficulty for the manufacturers and dealers to plan and manage their businesses.
dock fees in Austin are over 1k
With the 6.2l GMC engine news GMC better start offering 30%+ discounts off msrp on their trucks or they will be in the same boat
Glad I decided on a 1,100 dollar 90s car years back.
The dealers aren't making less profit, the sales aren't there for them to make as much profit as previous years
Car dealers NEVER advertise their best price!
HIS DEALERSHIP IS A/J MOTORS IN CONCORD NC
“Broaden who we can sell cars to” - should be common sense but its brilliance in todays decay amongst the top of the hierarchy.
Americans are paying way to many taxes like property tax school tax which 70% of which goes towards pensions that American taxpayers shouldn't be responsible for. That would be a start. 😊
I saw a 2024 Jeep Sport S hardtop that was fully loaded for $40k after discounts with an MSRP of $47,250.
Thing is, with the galvanic corrosion problem, poor gas mileage, and questionable reliability, I simply couldn’t go near it. Sad.
Ray I generally agree with your inputs/advice but in the case of offering 3k less for a vehicle that's been on the lot for 300+ days That's not an absurdly low offer. U can meet in the middle. My friend bought a house for 550k that was listed for 700k (dn from 800k) & on the market for 1.5 years. The person just wanted out of it and took it . I've seen this with cars too! U said they're losing money everyday especially on cars that have sat on the lot for 200 300 days
So, the only way you can check the oil level on a new ram is electronically on the dash, what if that goes out? They couldn't just add a dipstick also? The transmission can't be serviced by me so I'll need a new one at 100'000 miles? The problem with new vehicles is they are to complex and designed by engineers that should be shot. I was considering a new ram but no oil dip stick? Really? It seems like most vehicles today are designed to buy run for 3-4 before big problems pop up trade in and get another one. These overly new complex vehicles these days benefit people who buy a new vehicle every 3 or 4 years and trade them in just oil changes and tire rotations and that's it unless of course there's major recalls.....
A real solid, American pickup shouldn’t cost 100$k; especially when most of them aren’t even built in America , and with Chinese parts. It’s a well known rule of thumb a new car loses 1/2 its value driving off the lot; if that is seemingly by design, perhaps the market will respond… I can’t imagine why people would avoid blatantly predatory car loans, especially on vehicles of such sub-par quality…..
Toyota just announced they will be selling a new 4 dr sedan BEV for $13,800 with about 300 miles range. I'd wager 30% of the IC new cars will lose their customers to the BEV.
Sales won't return until affordable cars come back. Not everyone is going to buy a 4 door Roll Royce spec truck or land yacht SUV.
Check out Rhythm Dodge in Nashville . 2024 Jeep Gladiator Mohave msrp $67,985 -$23,582 discount down to $44,403. I would still negotiate between other dealers in the area to get them to beat it.
If gladiator had v8 option, it would sell itself.
They still have 22 jeep s at my local dealer
I respectfully disagree to what Ray just said about pissing the dealer off.
As a salesman, my job was never to get mad, especially on behalf of the dealer.
You make a lowball offer - that’s fine, give me a deposit to prove you’re interested. I’ll take your offer to my sales manager…
Several times my manager would storm into my office after presenting a low ball offer, and within 5 minutes, “we” sold the vehicle.
Or, you can piss your buyer off, throw him out and kiss his ass goodbye.
Is that your business plan? And you’ve been selling cars since 1977?
Things that make me go “Hmmmmm…” 🤷♂️
Coffee Ray, and lots of it.
TH-cam Channel "TK's Garage" is reporting that Stellantis moved (sold) 100,000 units in December, 2024. Looks like incentives are working.
Great point Ray about the affordability crisis. Plus all the idiots who paid over MSRP for new cars that they allegedly “needed” didn’t help either. I don’t feel bad for them at all, they can eat that negative equity for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. 😂
2 afford new any car if there was 0% interest. Prices are insanely stupid just nutzz
Fifteen years of near zero rates is the cause for all the inssnity! Government and individual spending without any fiscal responsibility!
Maybe you can't get more money off the advertised "best price," but I would get them to throw in an extended warranty. You're going to need it with a jeep.
According to "TK's Garage" channel, SOME RAM dealers are going to sell NEW '22 & '23 RAMs at 65% off sticker price! Check it out!!!
Even at 50% I'd be on the fence.
We need new vehicles in price range $25K to $35K that are decent quality and decent features. No one "needs" a $50K+ vehicle. I'm waiting for the total crash to buy my next vehicle...
Yes, it's going to be a zombie apocalypse
Do not buy until prices are down much lower. 32k....TELL THOSE CROOKS TO KEEP IT,!
So... never.
If you are just getting by, why are you buying a new car?
Ray and Brandon, i pay more for my car insurance than i pay for my home owners insurance. What gives here? Insane.
Never upset a Car Dealer or Real Estate Agent ... always Buy direct from Owners so as not to piss-off and insult Sales People
Not true. $22k off my new Rubicon Gladiator was good enough for me and the people who keep buying them. I'm not sure if the sports will sell out but the Rubicons and Mojaves are moving fast.
So he would only ask for like $500 off a old new car? I dunno I guess I'm cheap lol
I don’t care really what the percentage is. The bottom line will be the actual selling price.
Inflation, printing money, taxes, interest rate, and the devaluation of the dollar have the market upside down.
Your dollar is not devaluing unlike the Canadian dollar which is about two thirds of a USA dollar
The fundamental problem driving all of this is devaluation of the dollar due to irresponsible monetary policy. We as blue collar consumers are having difficulty building WEALTH because the inflation rate has been higher than the savings rates. The only people who can build wealth are those who have a lot of wealth to invest in instruments that will yield higher returns than the inflation rate. We are seeing the same phenomenon in the housing industry. It’s gotten to the point where it’s nearly impossible for someone who is making the median national income to afford a home… and rents are almost as bad.
The automakers haven’t helped themselves out any either. Inflation is to many dollars chasing to few products. To address inflation we can either reduce the dollars in circulation or by increasing production. The auto industry has the ability to focus their production on massive amounts of inexpensive vehicles rather than producing a smaller number of higher end vehicles. High quality vehicles have a longer service life which means more vehicles on the market… reducing inflation. Therefore if the auto industry focuses on production volume and quality then the cost of vehicles will improve.
The government is already knee deep in regulating the auto industry. I’m not a fan of government intervention in the free market… but perhaps it is time to consider either increased regulation of the industry… in an effort to mandate the production of less expensive vehicles… or to start a state owned auto industry that would focus on inexpensive reliable vehicles rather than on high profit vehicles. I would love to see a state factory that would church out clones of 1990 era Toyota trucks, Jeep Cherokees, Chrysler Mini Vans, Honda Civics, and 1980s era Chevy trucks. These vehicle designs are all proven, practical, have all the bugs worked out, and efficient for their purposes. With modern equipment churning out vehicles 24/7/365 these vehicles could be produced for an input cost of roughly $7500.
Except of course they would have retool the factories to make the old stuff negating cost savings, plus the cost of all steel stuff would be too costly
You people don’t really think stellantis is going to magically drop the price of their vehicles by 35% do you? Do you? Because I assure you they aren’t.
I can afford new vehicle but stupid is not written on my face.😂😂
Stellantis bankruptcy will bring the price down.
Used truck with 100,000 miles still 30k.. no thankyou I'll keep driving my 96 chevy 3500.. even at 10mpg still the better deal
I can buy a 40K car...I won't...Its at a point where its not economically viable. I want my nice retirement and having a new car will stand in the way.
Inflation is killing the world. Wait till t sends immigrants back home inflation could double. My previous insurance company doubled in 2 years. So I switched. These natural disasters will raise insurance rates even more.
Families can't afford 60 k vehicle unless you're lucky to make over 100k. Manufacturers have to get their crap in order otherwise Major layoffs that lead to more layoffs.
We're facing the 2006 to 2009 crash .
disaster.
Jeep gladiator kept pushing cars out the way on highway, got to my 1995 yukon and only seen the taillights. No v8 option, either way I'd avoid jeep even if it was offered free to me! No way I'd want to be seen in that pos vehicle.
Everyone scared of the horrible dealership experiences these brands are known for. Dont believe they will get the discounts.
So… when do the prices come down? 😂
do they even want us to own cars any more??
“You’re wasting my time”… ok go back to your lot or desk and “wait” for another sale to come along. That Gladiator, I start at $27,500 and if the salesman laughs ok, good luck continuing to lose value on your lot!
This conversation sounds bias! we can be offended with these extravagant prices, but dealers can't be offended with an offer.??? whats reality when theres a 50% mark up in 3 years..... WHAT