The Mouth of Sauron confirmed specifically that Sauron had no clue where the ring was. He admits to not knowing what the Hobbits' errand was, and Sauron would never attempt negotiation if he had it or even suspected it was on his side of the Black Gate. It was entitely reasonable to assume that one Hobbit at least had escaped with the Ring and that the quest had not yet failed. He might as well have just given Gandalf a thumbs up and told him he was on the right track.
Also in the books after Saruman is killed we see a faint, smoky shape take form, believed to be Saruman's soul. The shape looks towards the west, but a gust of wind blows it away. He'll share the same punishment that Sauron will, being reduced to a powerless, empty soul for the rest of time with no rest.
Another point about the "possibility" of Sauron having taken the Ring from Frodo: Gandalf wears a ring of power, one which is intimately linked to the Ruling Ring. When Sauron first forged his ring, the three Elven ringbearers at the time instantly sensed this development. It might be unclear exactly _how much_ they knew, but they were aware of something evil and ring-related enough that they pulled off their rings. So Gandalf must have known that, if Sauron had indeed reclaimed the One Ring, he would already know about it and therefore it could not be the case. He doesn't seem to have ever let on that he knew this, which is interesting to me. It would have been an effective way to counteract the morale impact everyone else was experiencing; but Gandalf was always about empowering other people, so maybe he saw this as a final test of their will. Still, it seems like a bad time to withhold information for the sake of testing people, so I've never really known what to make of this.
The only people present who would understand what he was on about were Aragorn and the sons of Elrond. And I don´t think those couple minutes before the onslaught began were the best time to give people an short introduction to ring lore. Also, even if Sauron didn´t have the ring they faced imminent destruction, so it wouldn´t have made that much of a difference morale wise
"Hold your ground! Hold your ground! Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers! I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me! A day may come when then courage of men fails. When we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dead on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!” -Aragorn's speech at the Black Gate, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
In the direction facing Mordor, Aragorn places his most elite soldiers: the sons of Elrond, the Dunedain, Prince Imrahil's swan-knights and the elite men of the tower of guard *AND PIPPIN*
Éomer: We cannot achieve victory through strength of arms. Aragorn: Not for ourselves, but we can give Frodo his chance if we keep Sauron's Eye fixed upon us. Keep him blind to all else that moves. Legolas: A diversion. Gimli: Certainty of death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
love the channel just discovered it, I'm going to get back into lotro because of the footagte you use i played when it first launched years ago i bought it from blockbuster of all places
The main thing that saves Aragorn as a character is that he never wanted this shit but he feels compelled to. He's not the perfect man but he does the best he can with what he's got. He's almost melancholic throughout the story because he's their best chance to succeed and he hates it. He isn't no Beren or Tuor. Also the loss of his mother is poignant. He's vulnerable and a tragic hero in a way. He does rise above the darkness in his heart and does the right thing.
I guess it makes sense that Galadriel would have considerable innate powers since her brother was able to get into a spell fight with Sauron way back in the day.
Tolkien stated Eru directly intervened three times in the War of the Rings (and its prelude): 1) Bilbo finding the One Ring on the floor of a dark tunnel; 2) Creating a new "human wizard" body on short order for Olórin/Gandalf (unlike the hundreds of years it took for Mairon/Sauron) after his death following the battle with Durin's Bane; 3) Gollum taking the One Ring from Frodo and falling into the lava at Sammath Naur (aka Cracks of Doom). Depending on interpretation of (3), your head canon could be in agreement with Tolkien.
"...he [Gollum] slips, and he falls..." Correct choice to keep the video from going off into the weeds, but Gollum had some help in slipping and falling. Whether by direct intervention by Eru Ilúvatar or as a consequence of violating a sworn oath is unclear (but Tolkien in his letters makes it clear there was supernatural intervention of some sort). Of course, this would be a good topic for a future video, since people who have just read the LOTR books* would think Gollum fell over the precipice into the lava by accident. *Feels odd to write that rather than the much more common "people who have just seen the movies".
Tremendously exciting summary! Here's an interesting point. The Mouth of Sauron is described as a Black Númenorean who's been in the service of Sauron for at least several centuries. This begs the question, how was he able to live so long if he has not been provided with a Ring of Power by Sauron?
Sauron had three Rings of Power that had initially been provided to the heads of the Dwarven houses, so he could have provided one to the Mouth of Sauron (this is pure speculation). All 16 lesser Rings of Power made in cooperation between Annatar (aka Sauron) and Celebrimbor had similar properties, with the distinction of "The Nine" and "The Seven" only being due to the races of the recipients.
wonder what you will cover after you finish the timeline videos. Whatever it will be I bet they will be just as good. Maybe other fictional universes or LOTR what ifs.
How could Lady Galadriel still use the Elven ring, Nenya to throw down Dol Guldur, if the One ring had already been destroyed in which all of the Elven rings would also lose their powers?
Tribe belief can create strength to the liar's personal life, but like maybe if abt ring, when someone in belief even cut own hand off(gone) forever, a liar is an illusionist.
I have thinking abt marble that is green to become alternative jade ring anyway. Marble can be created from my theory: using seawater as mixture of the stone. Then it will be shiny.
What if the Valar sent Eonwe to fight on their behalf in the third age? After Gandalfs death, the mission of the Istari was considered a failure, so what if the Valar sent Eonwe, not as a guide, but as a commander. Could Sauron have been bested by arms if he was sent alongside a revived Gandalf?
Yes, that would be quite likely. However, JRRT’s history has shown that when the Valar have directly involved themselves in wars in Middle Earth, basically whole continents were totally destroyed… I think the idea was to try to avoid such a catastrophic result. After all, the whole purpose of this thing was to prepare Middle Earth for the dominion of Men. The fact that it was the descendants of the Faithful Númenoreans, who had already been assisted by the Valar with their wild wind that blew Elendil and his ships northeastward probably played a large part of this decision.
The Mouth of Sauron confirmed specifically that Sauron had no clue where the ring was. He admits to not knowing what the Hobbits' errand was, and Sauron would never attempt negotiation if he had it or even suspected it was on his side of the Black Gate. It was entitely reasonable to assume that one Hobbit at least had escaped with the Ring and that the quest had not yet failed. He might as well have just given Gandalf a thumbs up and told him he was on the right track.
I like to believe the wind that blew Sauron’s shadowy figure away came from Manwe. Great content as always mate!
its almost certain it was
The Eagles were about, so Manwe would have been getting regular updates. He very likely blew Aragorn’s captured ships up to Harlond.
Also in the books after Saruman is killed we see a faint, smoky shape take form, believed to be Saruman's soul. The shape looks towards the west, but a gust of wind blows it away. He'll share the same punishment that Sauron will, being reduced to a powerless, empty soul for the rest of time with no rest.
I've been listening to these while I raked leaves, walked the dogs, decorated the Christmas tree and played Fallout 76! Thanks for your service.
Another point about the "possibility" of Sauron having taken the Ring from Frodo: Gandalf wears a ring of power, one which is intimately linked to the Ruling Ring. When Sauron first forged his ring, the three Elven ringbearers at the time instantly sensed this development. It might be unclear exactly _how much_ they knew, but they were aware of something evil and ring-related enough that they pulled off their rings. So Gandalf must have known that, if Sauron had indeed reclaimed the One Ring, he would already know about it and therefore it could not be the case.
He doesn't seem to have ever let on that he knew this, which is interesting to me. It would have been an effective way to counteract the morale impact everyone else was experiencing; but Gandalf was always about empowering other people, so maybe he saw this as a final test of their will. Still, it seems like a bad time to withhold information for the sake of testing people, so I've never really known what to make of this.
The only people present who would understand what he was on about were Aragorn and the sons of Elrond. And I don´t think those couple minutes before the onslaught began were the best time to give people an short introduction to ring lore. Also, even if Sauron didn´t have the ring they faced imminent destruction, so it wouldn´t have made that much of a difference morale wise
This series was wonderful! Thank you for making it, will continue to watch even if I lost at the end!
"Hold your ground! Hold your ground! Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers! I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me! A day may come when then courage of men fails. When we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dead on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!” -Aragorn's speech at the Black Gate, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
Aragorn channeling Henry V's (fictional) St. Crispin's Day speech?
In the direction facing Mordor, Aragorn places his most elite soldiers: the sons of Elrond, the Dunedain, Prince Imrahil's swan-knights and the elite men of the tower of guard *AND PIPPIN*
Pippen was a member of the *Guard of the Citadel* and fought with them.
Éomer: We cannot achieve victory through strength of arms.
Aragorn: Not for ourselves, but we can give Frodo his chance if we keep Sauron's Eye fixed upon us. Keep him blind to all else that moves.
Legolas: A diversion.
Gimli: Certainty of death, small chance of success. What are we waiting for?
love the channel just discovered it, I'm going to get back into lotro because of the footagte you use i played when it first launched years ago i bought it from blockbuster of all places
It is a crime that you do not have more followers. Your channel is really great,full of quality content. People are really missing out.
The main thing that saves Aragorn as a character is that he never wanted this shit but he feels compelled to. He's not the perfect man but he does the best he can with what he's got. He's almost melancholic throughout the story because he's their best chance to succeed and he hates it. He isn't no Beren or Tuor. Also the loss of his mother is poignant. He's vulnerable and a tragic hero in a way. He does rise above the darkness in his heart and does the right thing.
Been following since first age. Thanks for this!
I guess it makes sense that Galadriel would have considerable innate powers since her brother was able to get into a spell fight with Sauron way back in the day.
My favourite LOTR headcanon is that it was Eru himself who pushed Gollum to the Mt. Doom
Tolkien stated Eru directly intervened three times in the War of the Rings (and its prelude):
1) Bilbo finding the One Ring on the floor of a dark tunnel;
2) Creating a new "human wizard" body on short order for Olórin/Gandalf (unlike the hundreds of years it took for Mairon/Sauron) after his death following the battle with Durin's Bane;
3) Gollum taking the One Ring from Frodo and falling into the lava at Sammath Naur (aka Cracks of Doom).
Depending on interpretation of (3), your head canon could be in agreement with Tolkien.
@@tominiowa2513 Eru was *_really_* pissed about what Sauron did to Numenor.
Great series love the artwork and very informative
Top work as always!! Love it mate!
Thank you for a great video!
Admire the courage of the Captains of the West!
1:07 that is one amazingly redonkulous horn
"...he [Gollum] slips, and he falls..."
Correct choice to keep the video from going off into the weeds, but Gollum had some help in slipping and falling. Whether by direct intervention by Eru Ilúvatar or as a consequence of violating a sworn oath is unclear (but Tolkien in his letters makes it clear there was supernatural intervention of some sort).
Of course, this would be a good topic for a future video, since people who have just read the LOTR books* would think Gollum fell over the precipice into the lava by accident.
*Feels odd to write that rather than the much more common "people who have just seen the movies".
I've always been a fan of the "oath violation" theory considering oathbreaking in Middle-earth has a habit of coming with very real consequences.
loved the detail man, thanks for making us learn!
cheers till the next one ;)
This has been a really great series! Are we going to get one last installment for the Scouring of the Shire?
Absolutely.
Fantastic work. I think you're the first on TH-cam to cover the wars of Middle-earth in such detail?
Love your vídeos mate great job
i really like it that the Valar never truly fully left the people of ME in the first to third ages via proxies like Eagles and Istari
Loved the video.
Tremendously exciting summary!
Here's an interesting point. The Mouth of Sauron is described as a Black Númenorean who's been in the service of Sauron for at least several centuries. This begs the question, how was he able to live so long if he has not been provided with a Ring of Power by Sauron?
Sauron had three Rings of Power that had initially been provided to the heads of the Dwarven houses, so he could have provided one to the Mouth of Sauron (this is pure speculation). All 16 lesser Rings of Power made in cooperation between Annatar (aka Sauron) and Celebrimbor had similar properties, with the distinction of "The Nine" and "The Seven" only being due to the races of the recipients.
Sauron was a master of dark sorcery so he probably had various ways of extending - and thinning - lives.
If Sauron had the One Ring, he'd be the one coming out in his armored form with a big mace to throw down. And no one could stop him.
wonder what you will cover after you finish the timeline videos. Whatever it will be I bet they will be just as good. Maybe other fictional universes or LOTR what ifs.
Nice video
Slag hills, like the queues at McDonald's after a night clubbing, amirite?
😂😂😂
Cheers
How could Lady Galadriel still use the Elven ring, Nenya to throw down Dol Guldur, if the One ring had already been destroyed in which all of the Elven rings would also lose their powers?
Their rings of power were slowly declined. Not instantly powerless after the destruction of the one ring.
Man, Peter Jackson omitted a ton of stuff in Return of the King movie.
He did, but time and budget is always a factor when making adaptations. I just wish the whole Army of the Dead thing was done different.
Abt jade ring(created to be spit inside) ring at private part then sold?, Ring that is a tribe-belief?
They have belief ron is "wrong" while sau i assume they in belief as "sasau"(insane).
Tribe belief can create strength to the liar's personal life, but like maybe if abt ring, when someone in belief even cut own hand off(gone) forever, a liar is an illusionist.
I have thinking abt marble that is green to become alternative jade ring anyway. Marble can be created from my theory: using seawater as mixture of the stone. Then it will be shiny.
What if the Valar sent Eonwe to fight on their behalf in the third age? After Gandalfs death, the mission of the Istari was considered a failure, so what if the Valar sent Eonwe, not as a guide, but as a commander. Could Sauron have been bested by arms if he was sent alongside a revived Gandalf?
Yes, if the Valar's host consist of the Vanyar, Ñoldor, and Sindar/Silvan from the Undying lands.
@@lanarwensalmo3415 Gandalf and Eönwë could have been flown to the top of Barad-dûr by the Great Eagles. 😉
Yes, that would be quite likely. However, JRRT’s history has shown that when the Valar have directly involved themselves in wars in Middle Earth, basically whole continents were totally destroyed… I think the idea was to try to avoid such a catastrophic result. After all, the whole purpose of this thing was to prepare Middle Earth for the dominion of Men. The fact that it was the descendants of the Faithful Númenoreans, who had already been assisted by the Valar with their wild wind that blew Elendil and his ships northeastward probably played a large part of this decision.