REACTING To The Truth About Slugging - Dead by Daylight from @PallyLIVE go show him some love. #reaction #reactionvideo #tru3ta1ent #dbd #dead_by_daylight
So, the traps you saw there that you thought were wrong - let me explain. The first one when i was chasing the Dwight on Nostromo around the round pallet loop - that was purely to zone him out of that area and away from that pallet. Which worked, he ran to the back of the ship, then to the front of the ship again and I got the down. The second one at 35:00 in, they CAN drop the pallet on it, but only from the other side of the pallet. If you place it any further away from the pallet the survivor can squeeze between the wall and the pallet because of how small the trap detection box is in relation to the loop. The idea is that on that specific loop, 90% of the time they will be running toward that pallet from the side I place the trap on, so to use the pallet they will have to run to the other side, getting me the hit. Just a result of BHVR making changes to maps that indirectly nerf Trapper and me adapting over the years. Especially on maps like Eyrie, or even Nostromo where there IS grass, but there is also no grass at the same time, lol. Don't get me wrong - sometimes it has to be nearly pixel perfect and it's easy to not get it quite right, but it's super satisfying when it works ;) As for my comment on Windows of Opportunity - it's not Windows per say that is the issue - but Windows moreso exposes the issue of maps being terrible. Hope that clears things up, and appreciate the reaction!
Regarding the first trap, placing it next to the pallet would have also zoned him, PLUS prevent anyone sliding over it? Still seems like a bad move to place it under the pallet 😬 Or am I missing something? 🤔
@@Supra1332 On that particular loop, if you move it any further away from the pallet, a survivor with 1/4 of a brain cell will just slip between the trap and the wall/pallet. The trap detection box is smaller than people think.
@@PallyLIVE ye there are a lot of chokes in this game that with how small the trap trigger radius is a surv can get through it + the killer will stun himself.. because dead by daylight interestingly the 'trapper' equivalent in dbd's spinoff identity v has such a substantially larger radius on his traps they feel like miniature black holes in comparison, but they don't deal damage so are equally used for area denial and objective denial
Dude. Great video. You played the middle ground so fricken well. Very well thought out. Extremely well spoken and laid out. I've grown to dislike this game solely because of the people that play it. This game is/was everything I love. Horror movie characters I grew up with. I get to play as fucking Michael Myers? I grew up with him.. Freddy.. I've watched little enough of Saw to know the characters? Dungeons and Dragons? Tomb raider????? CASTLEFUCKINGVANIA!! I grew up with all of these characters man. I've played all these games. It's sad what DBD has turned into. And I just can't play anymore. I uninstalled a month ago. Moved onto greener pastures. But I've watched tru3 longer than I've played this game. Which is around 6-7 years now. I've watched so many different people. Tru3 says shit how it is. Even if he gets overly emotional at times during games and maybe there's more emotion in his statements than fact during said games. I get that fully and I understand the passion behind it. This game has so much potential... But the people that run this game, like tru3 said, the puppet masters... They run this game on hurt feelings and sensitivity. Fuck that. Fuck your feelings. I'm not here playing DBD to care how you feel. Were all here to have fun, enjoy these characters from all different avenues of awesomeness. Some are here competitively.. some are here to clown around and troll.. some are here because the characters are awesome and memorable. Whatever avenue you've played Dbd for.. we're here to enjoy ourselves. Not argue and fight and divide ourselves between the roles. Anyway brother, very well put together video. I think you've put a lot of truth in here. And the fact that Tru3 watched/reviewed it only proves that point. Well played sir.
It makes sense, there is 4 survivors in one match for every killer and most players are not very good, so most of the people giving feedback are new/casual survivors, of course the balance will swing to them
It's been a thing for years, and I mean YEARS. I think it was "survivors bodyblocking hooks to make it literally impossible for you to win the game is fine, fun and balanced, you're just a crybaby, but if you dare to bodyblock from unhooking THAT'S JUST TOXIC KILLER! REMOVE IT NOW!" or "if we take 4BNP and win in 20 seconds it's fine, if you take mori and kill one of us after first chase IT'S TOXIC KILLER MECHANIC! REMOVE IT NOW!". And because every single time clueless devs (who never played killers themselves) approved all pro-survivor changes, they've grown used to being always in the receiving end.
@@Kehen16 insta blind flashlights only got removed after the game director played a game and got absolutely bullied, they really need to play their game more
When killers are being colossally punished for hooking, and are being rewarded for slugging, survivors should not be surprised or angry that killers are going for slugs over hooks. Blame the devs for incentivizing this strategy, not the killers. The game is just not balanced for hooks when all four survivors have 3-4 second-chance perks that they get from hooks, at this point.
I think so. Not playing this bullpoop after shoulder the burden, have 4600 hrs as killer, not planning to return. But I watch content and see ALOT of slugging drama going on for a month already, so yes, very soon bhvr will make some basekit antislug mechanic, like 2.5x times slower unbreakable with charges or tokens
In the same year they: -Added anti-camping -Increased hook timer to 70 seconds -Buffed a lot decisive strike and blood rush -Nerfed every single gen regression perk to the ground -Nerfed save the best for last to the ground -Released finesse and shoulder the burden They did everything in their power to force players who enjoyed m1 killers (doc ghostface slinger ecc) on blight nurse only or quit the game/become a survivor main. And now they act surprised killers had to find a new way to enjoy the game
true also 1 thing for the other side they had a viable strong scourge pain res wich incentivises killers to go for differrent survs but killers created the meta to combine it with pop wich allowes to keep regressing gens hard even while prioritizing tunnel and can on a strong killer easily lead to 4-5 gens by the time 3v1 happens wich might be playing into go next mindset so, maybe just maybe they botched their efforts to disincentivice tunnelling up and keep bandaiding shit
Not directly relevant but I think it is worth pointing out, Anti-camp mostly hurts killers who are already bad at camping. Bubba, Nurse, Blight, Trickster, and Dracula, just to name a few, don't care about it because they can hit you twice again very quickly without heavy protection from your team or a very safe area. Meanwhile killers who could never effectively camp since basekit borrowed time was added have even less ability to do so. I think enough people complained about being stared at on a hook that the devs just decided to add a "counter" without putting too much thought into the structure. I play both sides about even in general, and I've never once gotten good value from anticamp or had a survivor get good value from it against me, primarily because a lot of soloq players don't understand it (since basically no info on it is provided), and quite a few killers I've played against know the range down to the meter and will simply sit just outside it so they can use their power (like a Knight) to camp while ignoring the timer. Also, I don't know if it ever got changed, but AFAIK Xeno can sit right under an active hook in a tunnel and it doesn't count.
@@whiterabbit4945 That is true, but a lot of the immersed players you mention also don't know the range or mechanic in general. Since it was added I've died so many times because some goober Felix or Claudette or something was crouching behind a rock nearby and spinning, accomplishing nothing and preventing me from getting anticamp. I don't blame people for not knowing all the game mechanics, but some people do just lack critical thinking when under stress. (Or in general) You make an excellent point, though there are always exceptions to every rule or argument.
@@whiterabbit4945 but you could nerf pop only what was the need to butcher pain res too. But once again the killers who made pop broken were nurse and blight
For the sake of science I decided to spend a night trying pure slugging for myself. I played the same build shown in the video on Clown, which I'm fairly good at and allowed me to ping-pong chases extremely fast, and never went for hooks unless everyone was down and it was time to end the game (except one instance of No Mither, so I had no choice but to hook). Overall, I was blown away with how stress-free all my matches became in those few hours. Not a single Dead Hard, zero flashbang saves, zero aggressive Decisive Strike stuns, zero uncounterable sabo plays, NONE of it was present simply because I avoided the trigger for these perks. And yeah, survivors gave up, disconnected, and raged in endgame chat, but the way I played is just how the game is gonna evolve with hooking being as unrewarding as it is. Lesson of the Day: It's incredible how much more fun you can have once you realize you aren't responsible for making the game fun for the other side.
Damn dude. When I started to read it was like a flashback of a stressful time when I was playing this game. Every single game took like 1 year of my life even if I win. And the phrase "Overall I was blown away..." ... I felt that. That was like fresh air after sitting in a closed basement for months. I felt that with my heart lmao. Kudos.
Is the fun aspect solely related to winning though or is it also dependent on the opponents/how the game plays out. For example if you won against a competitive coordinated team ( and you were fairly in control for most of it) or you completely stomped an uncoordinated team ( solo queue perhaps) would the fun be equal?
@@matthenley3886 I can tell you that when I play killer what I find most fun is having a challenging game and coming out on top. It's usually pretty easy to tell quickly when I'm facing a bad team and it usually results in me just turning my brain off for the game. That's kind of fun in a way but it's not rewarding. I don't feel like I earned it when it's a complete stomp which definitely takes away from the satisfaction I feel. That's just my perspective though.
they want you to play a mid kiler with mid perks and play their way. this game is toxic asf. If they do unbreakable base this game dies. nobody is gonna play killer
I'm so glad he mentioned the part about how gen regression perks were getting nerfed to the ground, and how gen PROgression perks were either untouched or even buffed and how they even got newer ones added to the piles. I feel like this doesn't get mentioned very often. Yeah, this guy knows his shit.
From my own experience even if you play as fair as possible and win fairly via hooking turn by turn you won''t get a gg back 90% of the time. Survivors in general that play this game for a long time usually are the ones to never say gg or d/c the moment they sense challenge. So yes slug away since they don't show mercy to new or high hour players they will rush gens and then type gg in chat as if they did something impressive and hard. Yet they don't want you to slug them but somehow we have to follow 100s of rules they made up in their lil heads.
Yea came back from to play again since dracula came out and continued to play him and out of like 30 matches yesterday I got gg back once immediately followed by ez killer...
As someone who always gg's in the lobby as survivor, most killers don't gg back either. Most people don't look at the chat at all and quickly go to the next game.
I'm on console so most of my opponents can't receive my GG.. and 99% of the console Players who could, don't allow messages unless you're friends. I think they should add something to let Players know when they reveived a "👍" from the other side, so we can actually experience something positive for once while playing.
The game is in a terrible state when slugging is a go to way to actually win a match. They did everything they could think of to make hooks perpetually less meaningful over the course of the game. I used to slug when I was winning easily to extend the game and look now. I noticed that maybe twice a year they let Killer mains actually feel powerful and then they nerf it again into oblivion in a week and make changes that favor Survivors for the rest of the year.
@ i never used it so i cant say tbh im not a hex type unless its just 1 in a build pretty much so i cant defend it but i do know alot of players were talking about it
The logic of survivors will always be absurd. Slugging is boring for them, yes. But doing a gen-rush against the killer is too. Tunneling is boring for them, yes. But using body blocking and various tactics just to "ruin" the killer's main mechanic (killing) is boring for the killers. While the killer has only one objective, which is to kill them by any means necessary, the survivors do too (Gens and escape). The difference is that survivors have more ways to use this objective to ruin the killer's gameplay (since killers play solo). Meanwhile, the killer is playing against four survivors, many of whom are communicating.
Most people are solo q, and if not they just group up and not talk, solo q is a bit of a nightmare, make solo q better, let me see what perks other surv have, let me somehow chat with them if not game chat, so on so on.
As someone who plays mostly killer I have to say the term gen rushing is so stupid. It's literally just them doing their objective efficiently. It's like a football team losing and saying "man I wish the other team would stop score rushing". It makes no sense.
The TLDR is this: Slugging minimizes the use of hook centered Survivor Perks. Decisive Strike, Off the Record, Deliverance, etc. And there is a considerable risk picking up every Survivor after a down because of Flashlight/Flashbang/pallet saves. These can be mitigated by facing walls, but not always. So the strategy is this: Hook only one Survivor at a time, slug the others. This way if they do have those perks listed above you only have to deal with them one at a time instead of all at once. Slugging saves time, which is the Killer's most valuable resource. Hooking every Survivor after every down takes up A LOT of time. Slugging is still pressure, you're just bypassing (most of) the problems of hooking.
slugging negates most if not all those perks by not hooking you hook one at a time your still allowing them to activate what wouldnt if they werent hooked i feel slugging is better pretty much at this moment until the devs finally pick up the slack
I have many friends who used to be main killers and have quit playing DBD, either to play other games or to switch to being main survivors, and there are quite a few of them. At the same time, while main survivors complain every day that "DBD is killer sided" I never see any main survivors switching to being main killers, nor have I ever seen main survivor anyone quit playing this game. Or could it be that they are masochists? Even though they claim they are being treated unfairly, they still endure being treated unfairly all the time.
wtf? they are mechanics of the game. if they t bag, gen rush and keep you hostage then yes you can be mad, but please bro forgive them for stunning you with a pallet or blinding you xdd. it s way harder to play as killer but when i slug or tunnel i acknowledge the fact that it s a toxic playstyle and the other side is just not having fun, i play like that when i lose pretty bad. it s clear that it s devs fault for killers needing to do all this to win and this strategy being that op, but playing like a dick and ruining s people fun just because you can, even if you don t lose or you don t need to all the times just makes you a butthurt who cares too much about winning no matter how. i don t even feel satisfied when i win by tunneling, most of the games i let the last survivor escape.
Complaining about slugging is akin to complaining about snipers in Battlefield. It is a way to play, buck up and shut up. You wanna complain, then send a message to BHVR as they are incentivizing this.
@@GregPiggot i mean its true and they are both great in their own genre so tbh leaps and bounds ahead is an opinion cause in their own genre they are both pretty good of course any game would also do better with a dev team that listens
@@leandro8936 I would believe it. BHVR way of fixing is simply applying bandaids instead of tackling the issue at hand, which is giving killers an actual incentive at hooking for starters.
I guess we're finally reaching the breaking point now, BHVR's constant bias has finally caught up to the them and now they've got to make a choice. Either fix the numerous issues that they've created and actually balance the game, or do what they usually do and nerf whatever gameplay the community adapts and have more people stop playing as a result. The choice is obvious based on their history, which is quite unfortunate.
The whole slugging conversation I think took off a lot after Carni's experiment and her follow up video about it where she had multiple people test different killers and their viability for slugging
Ive been saying this for what felt like years, the devs keep extremely favoring survivors with second chance perks and ita getting to the point where we are going to have another slug meta. This is history literally repeating itself from when Myers and DS was added
Fun watch! 😁 I'm surprised there was no mention of your name, since it's a build and playstyle you've created/popularised Plus his opinions sound almost 1:1 to what you've been saying in your videos Plus he watches your content (Not that it really matters, I just found it surprising)
I rly think this is a problem all asymmetric games have to deal with: when the gameplay is not the same for both parts, there will be always complains about how the other side has it more easy. "Killers can down me so quickly!" ; "Survivors do gens too fast!".. there is simply no easy way to achieve a good balance without putting in a ton of effort, wich many companies dont care to put as proven by all the ones that either try quick fixes that have no real impact on the problem or they just give up on the whole deal. That's why developers should truly reach for their most dedicated players and seek their input and really work with them, cuz they have the field insight on what is truly going on instead of just looking at numbers and believing that those are the true reflection of the game state. TL:DR - Asymmetric games are hard to balance and behaviour is taking the lazy aproach to try and fix their game, wich will always fail if they dont get real advice on how their game is screwing up.
the issue with this opinion is that, if killers down you quickly, you can get better at the game so they down you less quickly. if survivors hold m1 on generators all game, there's nothing you can do to prevent that. even if you play killer perfectly, down survivors as quickly as possible, they can still gen rush. if you play survivor perfectly, the killer will not "down you so quickly"
@@hookcamper653 Fair, but it was just an example. You can change the issue to "this killer perk is too strong" or "the killer is slugging us now and its so hard and unfair!" or anything like that and the point would still stand: both sides would feel that the other side has it easier and need nerfs. The vocal majority is usually not the wisest ones to hear in regards to balancing a game, but they are the majority still, so folding to them is tempting for developers.
I know I'm gonna get hit was a "grammar police" response, but; The word you're looking for is asymmetric. Isometric (for games) references a viewpoint, like Diablo or Path of Exile, where you're looking down at an angle to view the gameplay. That said, I agree wholeheartedly with your point, asymmetric games are a nightmare to balance fully. I feel they are usually better served in a more "casual" or "relaxed" setting, which I think DBD should have been, instead of trying to make it a competition viable thing.
@@Matthias129 Hey, when the correction is made in a polite and civil manner, its more than welcome. Its better to be called out and learn than to be ignorant of the mistake for another day. DBD's goal to make it a competitive game instead of a casual fun thing is, in a huge way, something I believe started this whole mess. I just think that in order to make that happen, the game has to have an actual win condition for both sides instead of "these are the results of the match!.... good work everyone!". Rn, survivors consider that winning is just escaping the trial. It doesnt matter if the whole team wiped and you got out via the hatch. If you get out, you "win the whole game". Killers is either kill all of them or the last one gets out via hatch and thats either a win or a draw in some peoples minds. The point being: its up to us to decide what is the "win state" instead of the game actually saying it. That cant stay like that if they really want DbD to be an actual competitive game.
Dude how are you acting like a self proclaimed visionair with so called god build invention? These perks are out for years and suddenly you figured out what they do? Look to some chinese players, i kid you not they come up with so many different builds that are ahead before western dbd players get the wind from it.
Yes the perks have been out for years, but gen regression hasn't been nerfed this heavily, ever.. so therefore these 'perks that have been out for years' are now more effective.. hence why these perks are now meta..
@@Unknown-rw2jv It has always been meta cause they force survivors extra tasks in a match whic hleads to more time the match goes therefor killers will win more often. Its like Pig masks and boon builds etc create more tasks for survivors and youll win every time
@ If it's always been meta, then why are we seeing far more killers slugging now than ever? And why is there so much talk about nerfing the slugging strategy if it's always been meta?
@@Unknown-rw2jv Cause alot of players don t think for themself, they undergo and complain. Like i said, this has been meta for a very long time on asian servers, they understand gaming on a different level. Only when some dbd content creators show whats possible, then they adapt like sheep. It simple really.
@@skerpi4068 Well I'm not Asian and don't play on Asian servers.. so I won't be on their level or have their level of understanding either.. and it's hardly a good thing as the more popular it gets, the more likely it's going to receive a huge nerf.
This meta happened because of the development and developers of the game and when only cater to one side (survivors ) killer players have to fine ways to make the game fun for them selfs as well ..with the developers constantly nerfing killers ,gen defense ,and all …so it’s on the developers. Maybe they we’ll wake up now and make the game fun for both side …it’s why I quit playing this game because it got to point were I the power roll became the victim roll and just got essentially bullied because gen defense is none existent
MakeSurvivors scared again When he started listing the off hook perks my inner self just started thinking "Hey man maybe survivors should have 1 or two less perks so they could make it a team effort, I mean it IS 4 OF THEM why do they get 4 perks as well and we gotta deal with decisive bully squads swfs and all kinds unspoken us vs them shit I don't even wanna get to but logically I think 3 perks per survivor is fair enough
survivors have 4 perks + BT base kit that previously needed to be taken as part of their builds, in addition to this they have communication which makes it unnecessary to use several perks
Pyramid Head has always been my go-to killer. Hoards dopamine like crazy. Skillshots ✅ Counters Flashlight/bang ✅ Easily avoids the stupid perks ✅ Has a Pyramid as a head ✅ He’s got it all 😂
My rule on DbD is show no mercy, do not hesitate, no survivors, and do whatever it takes fo win. If people don't like it then DC so i can play against better survivors aka the Bots.
I warned people this would happen last year with my most popular video back when the Vecna patch dropped. I said not all people aren't just slugging to be arseholes, they do it because it counters damn near every second chance perk in the game and BHVR keep nerfing regression. It doesn't take Einstein to work out dumpstering every single perk that is only used on the weaker killers (stbfl, sloppy and people were complaining about coup back then alot, countered the then buffed sabo speeds too), then dumpstering all the good regression and having all the perks that actually encourage you to "play nice" also be the perks that delete themselves like pain res while not giving killers an alternative way to play, would just result in killers playing in even sweatier and more unfun ways to make up for the lost pressure. Yet since then they've triple downed on the situation adding perks like shoulder the burden and nerfed regression even more and now we're in the situation we are in where hooking survivors for some reason gives them more pressure on the killer than if the killer just slugs.
Currently, the feeling you have as a killer is that you are in the game to entertain the survivors. If they are not 'entertained' by your performance, they can simply kill themselves on the hook and move on to the next match with absolutely no punishment. The survivor who penalized the remaining 3 by quitting doesn't face any punishment, but in this case, no one blames them for making the game less enjoyable for the others. Apparently, it's the killers who are responsible for making the match fun. If BHV decides to nerf slugging instead of rewarding killers for hooks, then we will know that this is the truth.
@@veladanjbakht140 Can't tell survivors that they'll get better if they have less advantage. It's always "it's not fair" with no real argument other than emotional drivel.
Just got back to the game from like a 5 year hiatus and I'm super happy to see that you still make content :D Been testing this new playstyle and at first it was a little weird but after a few hours, the 24/7 chases makes it a lot of fun. Great reasoning behind your build :D
Survivors always complain about elements of the game that are unfavorable to them as "boring" but they don't give a damn about how annoying it is as a killer to have to deal with comically easy flashlights, broken flashbangs, sabotaged hooks, body blocks, DH and DS. We don't wanna deal with that shit anymore, specially when doing any of the things mentioned doesn't take much effort at all, with only flashbang timing being a little tricky at first, but these things can literally ruin your game by forcing you to chase and down the same person twice in a row, just because someone was hiding behind a rock like a rat. Slugging is the perfect solution because survivors can't blind you or use DS on you if you leave them on the ground, you don't want me to hook you? Fine, i wont hook you, enjoy your four minutes on the ground.
19:45 30 second hookstages is identity v, not dead by daylight, but it is a spinoff game that is the logical conclusion of dbd so it has a lot of stuff like faster hooks in it, is this what you meant? Patch 1.5.3 Killer Nerf: increased the duration of both Hook Stages from 45 seconds to 60 seconds. This change was intended to reduce the effectiveness of camping hooked Survivors, giving their fellow Survivors more time to repair Generators and apply pressure to the Killer.
@@TrU3Ta1ent true, though it'd be 10 times worse if like in identity v people didn't just save the instant killer leaves, the moment the average surv starts abusing the fact a surv is completely invulnerable for up to 69 sec on hook (99 sec if throw a reassurance in) the game will fall apart so fast if there's basekit unbreakable catch 22ing killers into a loss
3:20 I know people have been worried about slugging and were voicing concerns for a couple of months before this, but for sure slugging is definitely being talked about more urgently now than it was before
They cannot put the Unbreakable base without touching the base game, it would be destroying their own game. No one would want to play as killer anymore, literally no one. They should reward Killers for hooking,for hooks...
@@sockinvaders How many of those games are against A or S tier killers? Try telling a Sadako or Trapper to go against a good SWF running flashbang (abusing glitches to make it impossible to avoid)/flashlights to win without playing dirty and see how that goes. You shouldn't have to play meta killers to have a normal experience.
I don’t think BHVR is "encouraging" this playstyle (slugging); I think they’re trying to push the game in a direction that makes things harder for killers compared to survivors. Just look at what they did to gen regression metas and how they increased the time survivors stay on hooks. When the meta was Adriana with the tri-gen, they introduced an anti-tri-gen mechanic, and so on. I think they’re just testing patience, seeing what escape routes killer players have, and trying to undermine them-to the point where killing a survivor in a match will become extremely exhausting (which it already is if you ignore slugging). Eventually, if a killer player wants to have fun, their only options will be to play survivor or quit the game. Just remember Mathieu Côté’s disrespect when, during a live stream, he told a killer player to "leave this game mode." What they really want is for the game to become so frustrating for killers that they switch to survivor, and then, once there’s a shortage of killer players, they can say, "Why not just add permanent killer bots?" And there you have it-a failed attempt at creating a "horror Helldivers."
I as killer try to play nice but if i actually try going for 12 hooks and i get a decent amount of hooks but still lose then the survivors just say EZ? Even when you play nice it's still not good enough for them.
Another problem is that once you start hooking, you can't switch to slugging (sorta you can due to it still going down no matter what but they will still have a while to bleed out depending how fast you got them to hooks) and vis versa once you start slugging. You can't switch to hooking as then you still have all 12 hook stages to chew through where as bleeding them out would still be the quicker then trying to get through 12 hook states late game
I know players joke about it, but if this keeps up the devs WILL add basekit unbreakable and increase recovery speed. We know they will make a drastic change to make slugging less viable. Anyone that has been playing for a number of years knows this to be true. Give up button for bleedout won't happen. The game will just reduce to bots, and killers will have zero fun playing bots after the first 2 slugs. They want us to PLAY the game, not circumvent the objective of the game and play to win. Seriously, it seems they have to force us to play the loop they want, and there is always a way around it that killers will take, like an arms race. "The new Slug meta is hurting the game overall, dispite killers feeling like its more fun." How the devs respond will make or break freedom and choices, and it comes down to the same point: "You are responsible for the fun of others in games you play together". In the larger scope, killers playing to NOT be bullied and NOT have to face survivors circumventing the intention of the design is a right they have, but if it kills the game, then your responsibility as a player becomes apparent, and the consequences are paid out. At the end of the day, you should want fast queue times, not fast, easy wins. You want chases where you are under the gun. You want to overcome a challenge. Driving away players will only make wait times longer, and that is where others fun is our responsibility. Now that slugging has been taken seriously again, EVEN IF the devs nerf the ever-loving fuck out of perks that activate from hook interactions and saves, the slugging will still be strong and killers wont stop doing it. Even if the slugging perks are all nerfed, or ALL perks get nerfed into being nearly worthless, slugging will not lose any footing at all, because it circumvents the intended sacrifice mechanic, and is really powerful. Good discussion! I await more developments on the subject, and I personally hope the devs don't overreact before the meta can shift and get out of this early outlier space where survivors are still bringing hook perks in a slug meta. It's too early to tell if survivors are going to adjust, or just whine for a gift.
I don't blame killers for slugging, I blame BHVR for even allowing unfun game mechanics to exist in the game. I am 90% sure in the next 2-3 patches were going to see a similar mechanic for slugging to the anti-camping mechanic. They won't kill it entirely, but they will make it less free.
@robertdobbs4156 Brother, killers win no matter what playstyle they choose. Slugging just happens to be dogshit to play against. There is no positive to keeping it in the game.
@@Fotumain13 No because that proves nothing for you except your ability to outrun one dude, and proves the point i made that killers cannot just win with any playstyle. You really thought you cooked there.
Its kind of crazy how much more enjoyable killer is as a role when you completely counter the possible and common 12-16 second chance perks a match. Its like maybe JUST MAYBE, slugging isn't the problem. Its the power of a lot of survivor perks and how they make the game miserable to play. Survivor mains think slugging is bad, try getting put on a survivor sided map for the 5th time in 1 hour and dealing with stacked ds, dead hards, shoulder and boon ex...killers have second chance perks too, but they aren't near as oppressive and EVERY DAMN time you hook its like you're punished for it, like woohoo i get more bloodpoints but at this point its not worth it..still make 80-130k a match without hooking with offerings
Unbreakable basekit just means camping on top of the survivor and as soon as they get up you just down it again... thing is they probably will give protection after they get up with unbreakable base kit after they'll see this is what's going on. At that point the game will be unwinnable... even undrawable probably... it's gonna be like: if you get one of them to die you're an extremely good killer...
I think resilience is in the perk list for anti hook is that it allows you to do everything 9% faster including unhooks. When you combine it with other perks like no one left behind and desperate measures you can take a hit, unhook a survivor and that unhooked survivor can take a hit for the unhooker with base kit barrowed denying the trade. I doubt it could be anything else.
What the devs also doesnt realize is that, if they keep nerfing killers (basically), killers will either start quitting the game or become survivor mains which will be the true start of this games downfall. What i mean is, less killers means higher queue times and higher queue times will further lead to people leaving the game and this cycle will continue until the game shuts down. Whether it be fast or slow, the game is dying, unfortunately.
The best hook incentive that I can think of that simultaneously will also discourage hook camping, is when someone is hooked for the first time, all healthy survivors gain vulnerability for x amount of time and can be insta downed. Thus pushing the killer to quickly find someone else and leaving the hook. And it also pushes survivors off gens, because they know that is where the killer will come to look for them. cleansing a totem can blanket purge this effect from the entire survivor team, giving swifs more cool playstyles as well cause they cause assign certain roles to get a totem cleanse more quickly to be safe again. Someone slugged should be able to open a chest to find an item that can mend off the ground.
survivors after bringing flashlights, toolboxes, flashbangs and genuinely busted perks wondering why the killer slugs instead of letting the entire team flashlight save
And in like six months from now, so probably by summer/fall, guarantee you the god build and slugging in general is going to be nerfed by behavior, because killers are just not allowed to do anything that benefits them or is fun for them. Period. And of course, behavior has this seriously warped idea of how matches are supposed to go, and how each side is meant to be played, and we all know, WE KNOW - behavior is highly survivor biased. Slugging wouldn't be such a viable option, were this not the case to begin with. If the game actually benefitted killers for hooking and leaving the hook? WE WOULD DO THAT.
I'm a survivor main (only really). I hate slugging, I hate tunneling, I lose the majority of my games, but getting angry never crossed my mind. I still enjoy the game. My having fun isn't tied to me winning the match. An entire thinkpiece defending a playstyle is wild lol
I'm a balanced player, and I'm not killing anymore. I'm done. I simply 8 hook and let everyone run off. Usually playing Nemesis. The devs decide to constantly nerf killer stuff, so it seems that they want survivors to win. And I will exactly do that.
@flegmaniac3462 i think devs are trying to maintain the 60% Killer win-rate. I dont think they want it completely balanced. When they start to notice the Killer percentage get too high they nerf Killer some. I just think of it in terms of horror movies. Most of the time in horror movies the killer takes out over half of the "good guys" before he loses in the end of the movie. Same here in DBD. That's the balance they are trying to maintain.
you know what the devs are going to do right. they arnt goign to make hooking feel better they are going to punish you for slugging instead. then they are going to be puzzled why their ques are questionable.
I don't play games so other people can have fun. I play the game so I can have fun and I'll play in a way that's fun for me. Just like everyone else does.
How 2 Counter Tunnel and camp as survivor- OTr, Decisive(windows switch) , boon: CoH, expo . If you run that as a survivor even in solo q. You have hard anti tunnel perks. you have solid heal areas and can get saved from sluggin situations. So As a Survivor main i dont see a reason why killers should stop tunneling or slugging when you can have perks that counter all of that imidietly.
@@Rey7Ray Nah, can't tell survivors that they have to adapt like killers have the whole game's life. They'll complain about having to run anything that makes them put a thought in.
Ok imagine the opposite. "If a survivor is left on the ground, and not picked up within 20 seconds then a random generator completes" that is the equivalent of how unfun slugging is, but for killer. Suddenly killers wouldn't like that, but just as doing gens is as intended, hooks should be too. The main difference is that killers these days have too much mobility TO slug - dredge, freddy, oni, chucky, alien, wesker, etc that makes slugging too viable. If they nerf ability mobility a little with a longer cooldown we'd see more gens done, and less people on the ground. Possibly reset a mobility cd on a successful hit, and with a long cd after a hook. Leaving someone on the ground however SHOULD punish the killer with either the entity making their movement speed have no bloodlust, or if a survivor is left on the ground for "x" time without a hook then complete a random generator.
"Being slugged is boring" It is literally no different from sitting on a hook except for denying certain perks, technically living longer since 4 minute bleed is longer than the about 3.5 minutes you would naturally have if you sat on a hook for three stages, along with letting you have the agency to move around, go closer to objectives or other survivors so teammates can get you easier, having some control over how quickly you get rescued, not needing to hit skillchecks to avoid dying, and I'm probably missing something else. Sure it means you can't use all your hook-related perks but you get more agency as a tradeoff for not getting free buffs. Not even mentioning that slug builds simply can't use a lot of still fairly decent perks. (it's debatable but imo some killer hook perks are still pretty good unless you have to/want to avoid hooking)
@@hluccaskywalker8329 Said this before but since survivors also can't think they just say, "i don't want to be on the floor all game" When they would have been on the hook all game as the contrast. I tell them the only real difference is advantage and bleeding out faster when on hook.
@kairu_aname I see what you're saying but I was trying to speak from both sides. I've been bled about before for literally no reason and I wasn't upset, I just did something else for 2 minutes and laughed at the goober of a killer who chose to waste his own time when the game was already over. What I was trying to say is that the only difference between being hooked and slugged is that slugs can't screw over their entire team by instantly killing themselves. (Which imo should give you a DC penalty because it's worse for your team than leaving the game is) I try not to bleed survivors out unless I need to for some reason, like there being no hooks nearby, not being able to find them on the ground, or it being faster than hooking, but I don't really see why being slugged is some horrible torture.
@@hluccaskywalker8329 It's "horrible torture" because it robs the advantage(or dc) they gain from being put on hook. Survivors complain about the normal way they play but when something "new" comes along they complain about the new thing because it's different from the old thing. Killers use it because it doesn't benefit them to hook survivors.
7:10 Depends on the loop. The round about is correct. You want that pallet and the only thing they can do is run to the outside or drop it. 28:46 Oh.. he showed it. 11:59 just about 2 mins of why killer sucks to play in 2025. 19:25 On top of low urgency there is also a perk that stalls the progress for 30 secs. 31:45 Ever seen a L or T loop window that wasn't tucked in the corner? 32:18 Bring back survivor stamina system and make hooking perm decrease it. Lol.
Perhaps my perspective is skewed because I play the role that is considered the weakest: SoloQ Survivor. Make no mistake, I feel playing as killer is frustrating and stressful sometimes - particularly against full 4 man SWFs. But even though I can agree with the perspectives of most killer mains, I as a solo survivor am generally put in a difficult or impossible situation a lot of the times. All I can tdo is try to synergize, heck I've had more success helping others get out than me actually surviving most matches. But it is what it is. If they nerf hook timers, weaken gen progression perks, and gut second chance perks - I'm screwed there is no way around it. Its very rare to have good and supportive teammates in solo q. And when the ONLY metric for winning is getting out through the gates, I can only hope to have some fun match to match so that losing doesn't feel as bad. But then again, I am just a filthy casual at DBD I suppose.
I went against this and was slugged 4 games in a row and ngl😭 I officially quit this game. lol I def get what he says about the killer's fun and reasoning behind slugging, I just don't wanna go against it😂 so I'm done with DBD for good ... But I'll keep watching the content its fun to watch. Not fun to go against.
There's nothing wrong with slugging, survivors have as many tools to deal with slugging s they do with hooking, except you're trading direct pressure for guaranteeing a hookstate. If survivors played smarter, like we used to, instead of bumrushing the killer and throwing a tantrum when they can't get away with tanking hits for free, they could actually counter slugging in the vast majority of cases. Slugging is ONLY a problem when the killer is flat out refusing to hook and needlessly prolonging the game for it, usually to try to guarantee a 4K. This could be rectified by allowing survivors the ability to pick themselves up ONLY when ALL survivors are on the ground. It would never come into play outside of obnoxious 4K slugs, so similarly to the AFC gauge, wouldn't be a problem for the typical killer.
Can we atleast give Tru credit for being the one to create and popularizing this build. Did he create slugging? No? Did he create the perfect build for it? Yes.... yes he did.
4:55 Are you going to use your only method of counterplay he forgot to mention as survivor the killer is given abilities for a reason to counter play the survivors and slugging isn’t part of it slugging is there to help survivors have a chance to counter the killer because aside from what he mentioned there isn’t any so intentionally slugging is a skill issue but it’s also the survivors fault for not going to pick up the slugged survivor I lost brain cells listening to this guy
I agree killer certainly shouldn’t have been nerfed into the ground but why can’t we find a middle ground here. Slugging is unfun, okay. killers also need more time. fine with me. Here is what I’d do. First, bring back gen regression perks. Make them viable again. Secondly, after a continuous minute of a survivor being slugged, let them pick themselves up. If they otherwise get picked up, perks or otherwise, the timer resets. Make this so it can only occur once per match. This way a survivor doesn’t have to wait 4 minutes before they can play the game again, and can choose if their team is otherwise occupied after being on the ground a full 60 seconds to pick themselves up. Ultimately it comes down to this: being slugged is dead by daylight at its worst. There is zero interaction you can do. Even doing gens is more interactive. Killers should not be forced to play this way and should have meaningful ways to take a match back from the jaws of defeat. At the same time, survivors should have some actual counter play to killers who despite having better options choose to play in an unfun way. If you want an even HOTTER take here: add unbreakable base kit, lower generator charges by 25% but for every survivor killed, let killers regress a single completed generator. And before you recoil in anger stew in the thought for a bit. The ability to regress a completed gen is huge. The games will feel closer for both sides (more gens completed before first survivor is out of the game, and a killer could force survivors to play more systemically to avoid getting 3 gen’d)
The problem is, that you’ve nailed their solution already. Guaranteed they’ll introduce unbreakable at base. It’s as you’ve mentioned on stream a bunch, they’ll treat the symptom not the disease.
I’m 3-4 weeks into this game ,haven’t played killer yet..but I don’t blame killers for slugging ,as I do what ever I can to try to get a win and escape as a survivor , so why blame killers for doing the same thing..slug away killers ,slug away….
"BHVR doesnt get it. Doesnt get this. Doesnt get that." Man, they DO get it. They dont want to. Raising survivor's frustrations means having less players playing the game and buying cosmetics for 3rd person survivors. Also, i compiled the questionnaire (the satisfaction survey) and they know very well what's going on. They didnt need to survey. My idea is that they only did it so they collect on paper people frustrations so they can justify their next "fix": some Bs way that favours survivors as always. That manouver was entirely aimed at justifying their next bullshit move. They know it all. So get ready for the shit coming.
Playing against this build is extremely rough for one reason only. Knockout. Its a perk that only punishes solo players and does absolutely nothing to swfs. The issue is that playing solo already has a much lower win rate as it is, so why run a perk that punishes the group that you already had a good chance of winning against. im ok with being slugged and killer doing chases. thats not really a problem as long as they start hooking once all 4 are down. but not being able to help because we have no idea where anyone is down is just depressing. to me running knockout just screams " i need help beating the people i should already win against". idc about the playstyle but simply the one perk. If you are only slugging because it is fun, slug away. but knockout doesnt add to your enjoyment of chases. youre just punishing the weakest role in the game simply because you can.
There were a few slug builds before you started doing them (pretty recently still), but it appears you and a lot of other killers caught on at the same time and now it is really setting in.
You know when your game has a major problem with it when one of its core gameplay mechanics is largely being ignored and one of its other non core mechanic is being used as a core mechanic. We all know BHVR is trying to find a way to counter this slugging meta so they can keep their entitled survivors happy so the money can keep flowing, but they know if they just straight up allow survivors to pick themselves up without no perks that it will impact the player count by a lot and queue times go up. Ever since 2018 and especially past early 2020 when the balancing health of this game started to go just everywhere, I have thought of multiple things and had multiple mindsets of what dbd needs to rebalance itself from: nerfing strong survivor perks, reworking sizes of maps and loops, killers needing a 5th perk slot, gens need to be reworked, killer perks need to be buffed, SWF need to be rid of, SWF should be limited down only to 2 players, individual killers need to be reworked/buffed, just all kinds of ideas and solutions. But now after awhile, especially after a good while of not playing dbd for a year or so, clearing up my mind, refreshing it and whatnot, but still keeping up with everything of the game and especially seeing how BHVR just continues to harm the health of the game, I've come to a single conclusion: all of that won't matter, cause even if BHVR decided to do that, they will do something else that negates those solutions. So what's the actual solution? For the longest time, dbd and BHVR have tried to stand on the principle that survivors and killers should have an equal playing field and power, but as we have clearly seen and in general for asymmetrical games, that just doesn't work out very well at all (I mean, look what happened with evolved) So this is the solution: the gameplay of dbd as a whole needs to be overhauled to how it flows and killers have the power roll to the point where it becomes rare to see more than 1 survivor escape, but have matches last longer than 12 minutes. Essentially, the gameplay loop of dbd needs to change where it is consistent for killers to get a 3 or 4 man every match with required effort and intensity, not stressful and with the survival time of survivors being decency long and rewarding, even though your side is not meant to survive or win. Essentially, killers will decimated matches only when they put in effort, survivors will rarely survive, but the whole goal is to survive as a long as possible before being inevitably sacrificed, with escaping being a once in a blue moon kind of deal. But of course with this, a whole slew of changes will need to happen, from gens being reworked, to how looping works, to certain killer and survivors perks will need to be changed, map sizes and flow etc. Suffice to say, this is my mindset right now and will forever be: Dbd was never meant to be balanced with both sides having the same power. Playing killer should have that roll while survivors are meant to make the most out of their situation before they're inevitably sacrificed to move up within the ranks. The core gameplay of dbd needs to change *completely*
TBH, looks like sometimes the survivors just ask to be slugged when using DS and Dead hard as meta perk, flashlights, grenades. I try to not tunel or camp or slug as long as the survivor is not a dick. and by a dick, I mean, not using flashlights, or grenades.
I've been playing a bit of survivor lately and just went against a killer who slugged the whole match, which was annoying as hell but they were also being extremely toxic on top of that but then again, as a killer main, I've played against sh**ty play styles so many times (which sucks) but it's always the added toxic sh*t that REALLY annoys me. So imho people should play how they like, just don't be jerks about it🤷
all of a sudden all of those gen slowdown metas dont seem that bad, rather have undying/ruin, or pop an pain meta anyday over the slugging meta but thats what the devs/ survivor mains wanted.
Honestly not experiencing any more tunneling rate vs years past. Only 10% of the time I viewed it as toxic (killers not hooking 3-4 survives slugged, wanting them to bleed out or go to not then hook).
34:45 . I had this same exact gripe with those suggestions. It is funny cause those ideas are included in videos about the giving up pandemic usually. How do they not see that people will intentionally bleed themselves out faster if they could?
I have a theory that they are afraid to repeat the Deathgarden story. Where the killer was strong and fun to play. I guess that's why devs prioritize and favorite the opinions of survivors over killers in DBD.
I was catching on to the idea that slugging was useful. Tru3 really brought it home though. He showed what I was feeling was the case. So yes, I do believe that slugging would catch on regardless, but Tru3 is the one that has catapulted the strategy. Best advice I can give you, Tru3 is stop playing the victim. if people don't wanna give you credit, let them not. If they wanna talk shit. Let them. When you start talking about people not wanting to talk about you, it's not a good look. Sincerely, a fan.
An issue with base regression on fresh hooks is that it will end up benefitting proxy campers to the detriment of SoloQ - which remains a plurality of the playerbase. Currently, someone skilled who's focusing on proxy camps can guarantee one to three kills per match. Add any significant basekit regression that lets them keep ignoring gens, it makes their minimal hooks count for that much more. It might even turn proxies into a new meta. You were one of the old guard talking about a minor basekit Pop, and I think that'd be beneficial. Maybe with some added haste once leaving the hook zone, to get you somewhere faster to use it. Maybe a basekit version of un-obsessed Remember Me, with tokens based on fresh hooks, coupled with a reduced base switch time. All still changeups to the core game loops that incentivize not just fresh hooks, but specifically turning attention away from single survivors.
Perks should be just that, PERKS. Hot take here, but exhaustion and second chance perks should not be in the game period. Perks should give a minor bonus to specific in-game circumstances and NOT changing fundamental gameplay mechanics. Base kit BT is absolutely insane. I’ll slug until the game isn’t insanely survivor sided. Its not the killers fault that survivors are weak at the game and are removed from the game too quick. Force survivors to improve at the game instead of giving them an insane amount of chances.
The problem with this meta is the anti slugging meta perk will follow and those perks are more game changing. Think about it we got boon unbreakable, unbreakable. We're going to live forever. For the people the list goes on as filth survivor main id rather us go down this path.
The problem is BHVR has made a game where slugging is incentivized, and hooking is disincentivized. Make hooking more rewarding, nerf 2nd chance and flashbang/flashlights, and then nerf slugging. This would make the game way more enjoyable for everyone. Whenever I play survivor, it fucking sucks playing against sluggers, and whenever I play killer, it fucking sucks going for hooks. Design a better game or DbD will just die.
The only issue I have is with the statement that something is "hard" at the top level. I dont' want the devs balancing this game based off the top 1% of players. The vast majority of players are not and are just playing casually. When you start balancing the game around the very few, it will be extremely awful. I've witnessed this in countless MMO's and other MM games.
There could be a way to balance around defined segments of mmr. Most killers will be weakened in low and mid mmr that way, until they reach 60% kill rate in every skill segment. In that way casual players can experience balanced gameplay, without ruining it for anyone.
As a survivor main I'm more of a troll simp for my favor killer type person idc on winning or losing but Solo Q is already a nightmare if your slugging me and everyone else still on 5 or 4 gens I'm not gonna waste more time on getting back up and bleeding out over and over again.. I'm just gonna wrap my PS5 with a rubber band to hold the bumper trigger to finish bleeding out to get to the next game, And if it gets worse for certain killers then I'm just wait another 3 months again..and yes it's toxic to slug other's when gens aren't barely use with a silly casual team that goes down in seconds
Honestly I thought his video was pretty solid. If I’m running a slugging build I use Forced Hesitation so that as soon as I put the injured survivor back down the other can’t get away bc they are so slow I ran a slug build on blight and it’s very over powered.
Yes and no. If You're chasing one with a flash it will stop that one, but it won't stop the second one that you aren't chasing from showing up just as you're picking someone up.
@ Yes. But if you are aware of other survivors being in tier 2. You can just static blast them nice and quick into tier 3. And or shock them while having your down slugged for a moment. There is stuff you can do.
BHVR will not get it until there will eventually be people not getting on to kill anymore. Then you will have to 10-15 min 2v8 lobby wait times for survivors and they will wonder why this is happening and what happened to the killers. They will then look at it the wrong way again and make the game continue to sink further.
So, the traps you saw there that you thought were wrong - let me explain. The first one when i was chasing the Dwight on Nostromo around the round pallet loop - that was purely to zone him out of that area and away from that pallet. Which worked, he ran to the back of the ship, then to the front of the ship again and I got the down.
The second one at 35:00 in, they CAN drop the pallet on it, but only from the other side of the pallet. If you place it any further away from the pallet the survivor can squeeze between the wall and the pallet because of how small the trap detection box is in relation to the loop. The idea is that on that specific loop, 90% of the time they will be running toward that pallet from the side I place the trap on, so to use the pallet they will have to run to the other side, getting me the hit. Just a result of BHVR making changes to maps that indirectly nerf Trapper and me adapting over the years. Especially on maps like Eyrie, or even Nostromo where there IS grass, but there is also no grass at the same time, lol. Don't get me wrong - sometimes it has to be nearly pixel perfect and it's easy to not get it quite right, but it's super satisfying when it works ;)
As for my comment on Windows of Opportunity - it's not Windows per say that is the issue - but Windows moreso exposes the issue of maps being terrible. Hope that clears things up, and appreciate the reaction!
great video man! it literaly explains everything to a T
Regarding the first trap, placing it next to the pallet would have also zoned him, PLUS prevent anyone sliding over it?
Still seems like a bad move to place it under the pallet 😬
Or am I missing something? 🤔
@@Supra1332 On that particular loop, if you move it any further away from the pallet, a survivor with 1/4 of a brain cell will just slip between the trap and the wall/pallet. The trap detection box is smaller than people think.
@@PallyLIVE ye there are a lot of chokes in this game that with how small the trap trigger radius is a surv can get through it + the killer will stun himself.. because dead by daylight
interestingly the 'trapper' equivalent in dbd's spinoff identity v has such a substantially larger radius on his traps they feel like miniature black holes in comparison, but they don't deal damage so are equally used for area denial and objective denial
Dude. Great video. You played the middle ground so fricken well. Very well thought out. Extremely well spoken and laid out. I've grown to dislike this game solely because of the people that play it. This game is/was everything I love. Horror movie characters I grew up with. I get to play as fucking Michael Myers? I grew up with him.. Freddy.. I've watched little enough of Saw to know the characters? Dungeons and Dragons? Tomb raider????? CASTLEFUCKINGVANIA!! I grew up with all of these characters man. I've played all these games. It's sad what DBD has turned into. And I just can't play anymore. I uninstalled a month ago. Moved onto greener pastures. But I've watched tru3 longer than I've played this game. Which is around 6-7 years now. I've watched so many different people. Tru3 says shit how it is. Even if he gets overly emotional at times during games and maybe there's more emotion in his statements than fact during said games. I get that fully and I understand the passion behind it. This game has so much potential... But the people that run this game, like tru3 said, the puppet masters... They run this game on hurt feelings and sensitivity. Fuck that. Fuck your feelings. I'm not here playing DBD to care how you feel. Were all here to have fun, enjoy these characters from all different avenues of awesomeness. Some are here competitively.. some are here to clown around and troll.. some are here because the characters are awesome and memorable. Whatever avenue you've played Dbd for.. we're here to enjoy ourselves. Not argue and fight and divide ourselves between the roles.
Anyway brother, very well put together video. I think you've put a lot of truth in here. And the fact that Tru3 watched/reviewed it only proves that point. Well played sir.
the dbd community has somehow gaslit killer players for feeling bad when they play to win.
It makes sense, there is 4 survivors in one match for every killer and most players are not very good, so most of the people giving feedback are new/casual survivors, of course the balance will swing to them
It's been a thing for years, and I mean YEARS. I think it was "survivors bodyblocking hooks to make it literally impossible for you to win the game is fine, fun and balanced, you're just a crybaby, but if you dare to bodyblock from unhooking THAT'S JUST TOXIC KILLER! REMOVE IT NOW!" or "if we take 4BNP and win in 20 seconds it's fine, if you take mori and kill one of us after first chase IT'S TOXIC KILLER MECHANIC! REMOVE IT NOW!". And because every single time clueless devs (who never played killers themselves) approved all pro-survivor changes, they've grown used to being always in the receiving end.
@@Kehen16 insta blind flashlights only got removed after the game director played a game and got absolutely bullied, they really need to play their game more
you changed the subject a lot. congrats.
@ the subject? i made the comment i choose the subject.
When killers are being colossally punished for hooking, and are being rewarded for slugging, survivors should not be surprised or angry that killers are going for slugs over hooks. Blame the devs for incentivizing this strategy, not the killers. The game is just not balanced for hooks when all four survivors have 3-4 second-chance perks that they get from hooks, at this point.
They will 100% add a baseline anti-slug mechanic before addressing the actual problems in typical BHVR fashion.
Basekit unbreakable next
I think so. Not playing this bullpoop after shoulder the burden, have 4600 hrs as killer, not planning to return. But I watch content and see ALOT of slugging drama going on for a month already, so yes, very soon bhvr will make some basekit antislug mechanic, like 2.5x times slower unbreakable with charges or tokens
In the same year they:
-Added anti-camping
-Increased hook timer to 70 seconds
-Buffed a lot decisive strike and blood rush
-Nerfed every single gen regression perk to the ground
-Nerfed save the best for last to the ground
-Released finesse and shoulder the burden
They did everything in their power to force players who enjoyed m1 killers (doc ghostface slinger ecc) on blight nurse only or quit the game/become a survivor main. And now they act surprised killers had to find a new way to enjoy the game
true
also 1 thing for the other side
they had a viable strong scourge pain res wich incentivises killers to go for differrent survs
but killers created the meta to combine it with pop wich allowes to keep regressing gens hard even while prioritizing tunnel
and can on a strong killer easily lead to 4-5 gens by the time 3v1 happens
wich might be playing into go next mindset
so, maybe just maybe they botched their efforts to disincentivice tunnelling up and keep bandaiding shit
Not directly relevant but I think it is worth pointing out, Anti-camp mostly hurts killers who are already bad at camping. Bubba, Nurse, Blight, Trickster, and Dracula, just to name a few, don't care about it because they can hit you twice again very quickly without heavy protection from your team or a very safe area. Meanwhile killers who could never effectively camp since basekit borrowed time was added have even less ability to do so. I think enough people complained about being stared at on a hook that the devs just decided to add a "counter" without putting too much thought into the structure. I play both sides about even in general, and I've never once gotten good value from anticamp or had a survivor get good value from it against me, primarily because a lot of soloq players don't understand it (since basically no info on it is provided), and quite a few killers I've played against know the range down to the meter and will simply sit just outside it so they can use their power (like a Knight) to camp while ignoring the timer. Also, I don't know if it ever got changed, but AFAIK Xeno can sit right under an active hook in a tunnel and it doesn't count.
@@hluccaskywalker8329 true,
but there is 1 option the anticamp brings,
to release a surivor from the hook if left to rot by immersed teammates
@@whiterabbit4945 That is true, but a lot of the immersed players you mention also don't know the range or mechanic in general. Since it was added I've died so many times because some goober Felix or Claudette or something was crouching behind a rock nearby and spinning, accomplishing nothing and preventing me from getting anticamp. I don't blame people for not knowing all the game mechanics, but some people do just lack critical thinking when under stress. (Or in general) You make an excellent point, though there are always exceptions to every rule or argument.
@@whiterabbit4945 but you could nerf pop only what was the need to butcher pain res too. But once again the killers who made pop broken were nurse and blight
For the sake of science I decided to spend a night trying pure slugging for myself. I played the same build shown in the video on Clown, which I'm fairly good at and allowed me to ping-pong chases extremely fast, and never went for hooks unless everyone was down and it was time to end the game (except one instance of No Mither, so I had no choice but to hook). Overall, I was blown away with how stress-free all my matches became in those few hours. Not a single Dead Hard, zero flashbang saves, zero aggressive Decisive Strike stuns, zero uncounterable sabo plays, NONE of it was present simply because I avoided the trigger for these perks. And yeah, survivors gave up, disconnected, and raged in endgame chat, but the way I played is just how the game is gonna evolve with hooking being as unrewarding as it is.
Lesson of the Day: It's incredible how much more fun you can have once you realize you aren't responsible for making the game fun for the other side.
Damn dude. When I started to read it was like a flashback of a stressful time when I was playing this game. Every single game took like 1 year of my life even if I win.
And the phrase "Overall I was blown away..." ... I felt that. That was like fresh air after sitting in a closed basement for months. I felt that with my heart lmao. Kudos.
Is the fun aspect solely related to winning though or is it also dependent on the opponents/how the game plays out. For example if you won against a competitive coordinated team ( and you were fairly in control for most of it) or you completely stomped an uncoordinated team ( solo queue perhaps) would the fun be equal?
@@matthenley3886 If you only care about winning, the coordination doesn't matter.
@@flegmaniac3462 I know and that’s why I’m asking whether people only care about winning ( even if the win is very easy).
@@matthenley3886 I can tell you that when I play killer what I find most fun is having a challenging game and coming out on top. It's usually pretty easy to tell quickly when I'm facing a bad team and it usually results in me just turning my brain off for the game. That's kind of fun in a way but it's not rewarding. I don't feel like I earned it when it's a complete stomp which definitely takes away from the satisfaction I feel. That's just my perspective though.
they want you to play a mid kiler with mid perks and play their way. this game is toxic asf. If they do unbreakable base this game dies. nobody is gonna play killer
Well no survivors want to play it now the way it is so i guess you are both fucked.
They already tested basekit unbreakable and people fucking HATED it.
Hahaha what nonsense.
@roberteli5235 no it was the best time. They were stupid not to allow some version of it into the base game.
I'm so glad he mentioned the part about how gen regression perks were getting nerfed to the ground, and how gen PROgression perks were either untouched or even buffed and how they even got newer ones added to the piles. I feel like this doesn't get mentioned very often. Yeah, this guy knows his shit.
DbD faces the Trolley Dilema. They sacrifice the killer's QoL to favor the mayority.
From my own experience even if you play as fair as possible and win fairly via hooking turn by turn you won''t get a gg back 90% of the time. Survivors in general that play this game for a long time usually are the ones to never say gg or d/c the moment they sense challenge. So yes slug away since they don't show mercy to new or high hour players they will rush gens and then type gg in chat as if they did something impressive and hard. Yet they don't want you to slug them but somehow we have to follow 100s of rules they made up in their lil heads.
Yea came back from to play again since dracula came out and continued to play him and out of like 30 matches yesterday I got gg back once immediately followed by ez killer...
exactly im also not saying one side is more toxic then the other but to me survivor side is more toxic from what ive expirienced
As someone who always gg's in the lobby as survivor, most killers don't gg back either. Most people don't look at the chat at all and quickly go to the next game.
Yea that's why I quit playing this toxic game. I hope everyone does too .
I'm on console so most of my opponents can't receive my GG.. and 99% of the console Players who could, don't allow messages unless you're friends. I think they should add something to let Players know when they reveived a "👍" from the other side, so we can actually experience something positive for once while playing.
The game is in a terrible state when slugging is a go to way to actually win a match. They did everything they could think of to make hooks perpetually less meaningful over the course of the game. I used to slug when I was winning easily to extend the game and look now.
I noticed that maybe twice a year they let Killer mains actually feel powerful and then they nerf it again into oblivion in a week and make changes that favor Survivors for the rest of the year.
Cough cough thrill of the hunt lol
@@mcahtme2977 What about it?
@@IsaiahL-i7d perfect example of killers feeling actually strong because of a PERK before it gets nerfed.
@ i never used it so i cant say tbh im not a hex type unless its just 1 in a build pretty much so i cant defend it but i do know alot of players were talking about it
The logic of survivors will always be absurd. Slugging is boring for them, yes. But doing a gen-rush against the killer is too. Tunneling is boring for them, yes. But using body blocking and various tactics just to "ruin" the killer's main mechanic (killing) is boring for the killers.
While the killer has only one objective, which is to kill them by any means necessary, the survivors do too (Gens and escape). The difference is that survivors have more ways to use this objective to ruin the killer's gameplay (since killers play solo). Meanwhile, the killer is playing against four survivors, many of whom are communicating.
no bro its fun that 3 gens pop while im carrying a survivor to hook just to get body blocked into undodgable with no sound q flashbang
Most people are solo q, and if not they just group up and not talk, solo q is a bit of a nightmare, make solo q better, let me see what perks other surv have, let me somehow chat with them if not game chat, so on so on.
As someone who plays mostly killer I have to say the term gen rushing is so stupid. It's literally just them doing their objective efficiently. It's like a football team losing and saying "man I wish the other team would stop score rushing". It makes no sense.
The TLDR is this:
Slugging minimizes the use of hook centered Survivor Perks. Decisive Strike, Off the Record, Deliverance, etc. And there is a considerable risk picking up every Survivor after a down because of Flashlight/Flashbang/pallet saves. These can be mitigated by facing walls, but not always. So the strategy is this: Hook only one Survivor at a time, slug the others. This way if they do have those perks listed above you only have to deal with them one at a time instead of all at once. Slugging saves time, which is the Killer's most valuable resource. Hooking every Survivor after every down takes up A LOT of time. Slugging is still pressure, you're just bypassing (most of) the problems of hooking.
slugging negates most if not all those perks by not hooking you hook one at a time your still allowing them to activate what wouldnt if they werent hooked i feel slugging is better pretty much at this moment until the devs finally pick up the slack
Waiting for that survivor main that will say, " But killers have lightborn..."
I have many friends who used to be main killers and have quit playing DBD, either to play other games or to switch to being main survivors, and there are quite a few of them. At the same time, while main survivors complain every day that "DBD is killer sided" I never see any main survivors switching to being main killers, nor have I ever seen main survivor anyone quit playing this game. Or could it be that they are masochists? Even though they claim they are being treated unfairly, they still endure being treated unfairly all the time.
The survivors don't care if they blind, stun or body block but they moan about when killerwbplay lmao
wtf? they are mechanics of the game. if they t bag, gen rush and keep you hostage then yes you can be mad, but please bro forgive them for stunning you with a pallet or blinding you xdd. it s way harder to play as killer but when i slug or tunnel i acknowledge the fact that it s a toxic playstyle and the other side is just not having fun, i play like that when i lose pretty bad. it s clear that it s devs fault for killers needing to do all this to win and this strategy being that op, but playing like a dick and ruining s people fun just because you can, even if you don t lose or you don t need to all the times just makes you a butthurt who cares too much about winning no matter how. i don t even feel satisfied when i win by tunneling, most of the games i let the last survivor escape.
I saw none talking about the stupidity of survivors having 32 second chanses tho
Killers always have to defend why they play how they play I never hear survivors have to do the same
@ bc they don’t care lmao they don’t give a fuck
@ they don’t try to justify it bc IT’s socially acceptable to be toxic to killers and moan when killers turn the tables
Complaining about slugging is akin to complaining about snipers in Battlefield. It is a way to play, buck up and shut up. You wanna complain, then send a message to BHVR as they are incentivizing this.
Dont ever mention battlefield and dbd in the same sentence again! Battlefield even in its current dead state is leaps and bounds ahead of dbd😂
@@GregPiggot i mean its true and they are both great in their own genre so tbh leaps and bounds ahead is an opinion cause in their own genre they are both pretty good of course any game would also do better with a dev team that listens
Preach. Accurate AF.
@@CaptToilet the funniest thing to me is that instead of fixing the game they will just give ub soul gard basekit to survivors
@@leandro8936 I would believe it. BHVR way of fixing is simply applying bandaids instead of tackling the issue at hand, which is giving killers an actual incentive at hooking for starters.
Fuck'm. Win any way you can. Slug away Tru. Love your content.
Oh god
Ong they do the same without considering the killers
Yep, until they add a ranked mode this is the way it’s gonna be.
@@jordannolan4008 ?
@ que times will be thousands of years bro be realistic lmao
I guess we're finally reaching the breaking point now, BHVR's constant bias has finally caught up to the them and now they've got to make a choice.
Either fix the numerous issues that they've created and actually balance the game, or do what they usually do and nerf whatever gameplay the community adapts and have more people stop playing as a result. The choice is obvious based on their history, which is quite unfortunate.
@@Duskwalker68
Somehow many that would play this game cannot fathom that it's not power role sided.
The whole slugging conversation I think took off a lot after Carni's experiment and her follow up video about it where she had multiple people test different killers and their viability for slugging
Ive been saying this for what felt like years, the devs keep extremely favoring survivors with second chance perks and ita getting to the point where we are going to have another slug meta. This is history literally repeating itself from when Myers and DS was added
Fun watch! 😁
I'm surprised there was no mention of your name, since it's a build and playstyle you've created/popularised
Plus his opinions sound almost 1:1 to what you've been saying in your videos
Plus he watches your content
(Not that it really matters, I just found it surprising)
My name seems to be the Voldemort of DBD lol
@@TrU3Ta1entsadge. Because yeah if he did mention your name somehow it invalidates his point to some people
If they make unbreakable base kit we just need base kit left behind to make every survivor a Bill clone
I rly think this is a problem all asymmetric games have to deal with: when the gameplay is not the same for both parts, there will be always complains about how the other side has it more easy. "Killers can down me so quickly!" ; "Survivors do gens too fast!".. there is simply no easy way to achieve a good balance without putting in a ton of effort, wich many companies dont care to put as proven by all the ones that either try quick fixes that have no real impact on the problem or they just give up on the whole deal. That's why developers should truly reach for their most dedicated players and seek their input and really work with them, cuz they have the field insight on what is truly going on instead of just looking at numbers and believing that those are the true reflection of the game state.
TL:DR - Asymmetric games are hard to balance and behaviour is taking the lazy aproach to try and fix their game, wich will always fail if they dont get real advice on how their game is screwing up.
Most based comment
the issue with this opinion is that, if killers down you quickly, you can get better at the game so they down you less quickly. if survivors hold m1 on generators all game, there's nothing you can do to prevent that. even if you play killer perfectly, down survivors as quickly as possible, they can still gen rush. if you play survivor perfectly, the killer will not "down you so quickly"
@@hookcamper653 Fair, but it was just an example. You can change the issue to "this killer perk is too strong" or "the killer is slugging us now and its so hard and unfair!" or anything like that and the point would still stand: both sides would feel that the other side has it easier and need nerfs. The vocal majority is usually not the wisest ones to hear in regards to balancing a game, but they are the majority still, so folding to them is tempting for developers.
I know I'm gonna get hit was a "grammar police" response, but; The word you're looking for is asymmetric. Isometric (for games) references a viewpoint, like Diablo or Path of Exile, where you're looking down at an angle to view the gameplay.
That said, I agree wholeheartedly with your point, asymmetric games are a nightmare to balance fully. I feel they are usually better served in a more "casual" or "relaxed" setting, which I think DBD should have been, instead of trying to make it a competition viable thing.
@@Matthias129 Hey, when the correction is made in a polite and civil manner, its more than welcome. Its better to be called out and learn than to be ignorant of the mistake for another day.
DBD's goal to make it a competitive game instead of a casual fun thing is, in a huge way, something I believe started this whole mess. I just think that in order to make that happen, the game has to have an actual win condition for both sides instead of "these are the results of the match!.... good work everyone!". Rn, survivors consider that winning is just escaping the trial. It doesnt matter if the whole team wiped and you got out via the hatch. If you get out, you "win the whole game". Killers is either kill all of them or the last one gets out via hatch and thats either a win or a draw in some peoples minds. The point being: its up to us to decide what is the "win state" instead of the game actually saying it. That cant stay like that if they really want DbD to be an actual competitive game.
Dude how are you acting like a self proclaimed visionair with so called god build invention? These perks are out for years and suddenly you figured out what they do? Look to some chinese players, i kid you not they come up with so many different builds that are ahead before western dbd players get the wind from it.
Yes the perks have been out for years, but gen regression hasn't been nerfed this heavily, ever.. so therefore these 'perks that have been out for years' are now more effective.. hence why these perks are now meta..
@@Unknown-rw2jv It has always been meta cause they force survivors extra tasks in a match whic hleads to more time the match goes therefor killers will win more often. Its like Pig masks and boon builds etc create more tasks for survivors and youll win every time
@ If it's always been meta, then why are we seeing far more killers slugging now than ever? And why is there so much talk about nerfing the slugging strategy if it's always been meta?
@@Unknown-rw2jv Cause alot of players don t think for themself, they undergo and complain. Like i said, this has been meta for a very long time on asian servers, they understand gaming on a different level. Only when some dbd content creators show whats possible, then they adapt like sheep. It simple really.
@@skerpi4068 Well I'm not Asian and don't play on Asian servers.. so I won't be on their level or have their level of understanding either.. and it's hardly a good thing as the more popular it gets, the more likely it's going to receive a huge nerf.
Nah. King Wolfe BEEN on the slugging mind games. He has definitely been championing playing to win as a killer for MUCH MUCH longer than most.
This meta happened because of the development and developers of the game and when only cater to one side (survivors ) killer players have to fine ways to make the game fun for them selfs as well ..with the developers constantly nerfing killers ,gen defense ,and all …so it’s on the developers. Maybe they we’ll wake up now and make the game fun for both side …it’s why I quit playing this game because it got to point were I the power roll became the victim roll and just got essentially bullied because gen defense is none existent
MakeSurvivors scared again
When he started listing the off hook perks my inner self just started thinking "Hey man maybe survivors should have 1 or two less perks so they could make it a team effort, I mean it IS 4 OF THEM why do they get 4 perks as well and we gotta deal with decisive bully squads swfs and all kinds unspoken us vs them shit I don't even wanna get to but logically I think 3 perks per survivor is fair enough
survivors have 4 perks + BT base kit that previously needed to be taken as part of their builds, in addition to this they have communication which makes it unnecessary to use several perks
I thought adding a Terminator to the game would be fun, but the Devs decided to just make Survivors unkillible Terminators…
basekit unbreakable + soulguard is next XD
@@Lapuris i hope that doesnt happen promise if it does the game dies for alot of peeps including me
They already added official Terminator DLC to their game. And this game was shutdowned after it😁
"unkillable"
Pyramid Head has always been my go-to killer. Hoards dopamine like crazy.
Skillshots ✅
Counters Flashlight/bang ✅
Easily avoids the stupid perks ✅
Has a Pyramid as a head ✅
He’s got it all 😂
Choy was doing full on slugging after shoulder was added... i would give him most of the credit for the Slug mega gaining XD
King Wolfe was also doing a slug build as well with the Houndmaster release since it’s hard to counter.
I am slugging every match with my p100 Twins since Weave Attunement came so I think I am part of this too lmao 😂
My rule on DbD is show no mercy, do not hesitate, no survivors, and do whatever it takes fo win. If people don't like it then DC so i can play against better survivors aka the Bots.
POV: youre 13 years old and the edgelord emerges
If bots are better than the survivors you go against you shouldn’t have to do that much in order to win.
I warned people this would happen last year with my most popular video back when the Vecna patch dropped. I said not all people aren't just slugging to be arseholes, they do it because it counters damn near every second chance perk in the game and BHVR keep nerfing regression. It doesn't take Einstein to work out dumpstering every single perk that is only used on the weaker killers (stbfl, sloppy and people were complaining about coup back then alot, countered the then buffed sabo speeds too), then dumpstering all the good regression and having all the perks that actually encourage you to "play nice" also be the perks that delete themselves like pain res while not giving killers an alternative way to play, would just result in killers playing in even sweatier and more unfun ways to make up for the lost pressure.
Yet since then they've triple downed on the situation adding perks like shoulder the burden and nerfed regression even more and now we're in the situation we are in where hooking survivors for some reason gives them more pressure on the killer than if the killer just slugs.
If they make Unbreakable base kit to " fix this " DBD is gone
Currently, the feeling you have as a killer is that you are in the game to entertain the survivors. If they are not 'entertained' by your performance, they can simply kill themselves on the hook and move on to the next match with absolutely no punishment. The survivor who penalized the remaining 3 by quitting doesn't face any punishment, but in this case, no one blames them for making the game less enjoyable for the others. Apparently, it's the killers who are responsible for making the match fun. If BHV decides to nerf slugging instead of rewarding killers for hooks, then we will know that this is the truth.
Base kit borrowed time give survivors bad habit of always having handholding stuff when they are bad at surviving
@@veladanjbakht140
Can't tell survivors that they'll get better if they have less advantage.
It's always "it's not fair" with no real argument other than emotional drivel.
Just got back to the game from like a 5 year hiatus and I'm super happy to see that you still make content :D Been testing this new playstyle and at first it was a little weird but after a few hours, the 24/7 chases makes it a lot of fun. Great reasoning behind your build :D
That guy that he's watching has got a good voice for streaming . Listening to him explains slugging actually makes me feel bad for the killer bruh.
Survivors always complain about elements of the game that are unfavorable to them as "boring" but they don't give a damn about how annoying it is as a killer to have to deal with comically easy flashlights, broken flashbangs, sabotaged hooks, body blocks, DH and DS. We don't wanna deal with that shit anymore, specially when doing any of the things mentioned doesn't take much effort at all, with only flashbang timing being a little tricky at first, but these things can literally ruin your game by forcing you to chase and down the same person twice in a row, just because someone was hiding behind a rock like a rat. Slugging is the perfect solution because survivors can't blind you or use DS on you if you leave them on the ground, you don't want me to hook you? Fine, i wont hook you, enjoy your four minutes on the ground.
Just make truetalent a dev at this point
19:45 30 second hookstages is identity v, not dead by daylight, but it is a spinoff game that is the logical conclusion of dbd so it has a lot of stuff like faster hooks in it, is this what you meant?
Patch 1.5.3
Killer Nerf: increased the duration of both Hook Stages from 45 seconds to 60 seconds.
This change was intended to reduce the effectiveness of camping hooked Survivors, giving their fellow Survivors more time to repair Generators and apply pressure to the Killer.
Yeah that's the one 45 seconds. Added 25 seconds takes away the threat and allows survivors to relax more when someone is hooked.
@@TrU3Ta1ent true, though it'd be 10 times worse if like in identity v people didn't just save the instant killer leaves, the moment the average surv starts abusing the fact a surv is completely invulnerable for up to 69 sec on hook (99 sec if throw a reassurance in) the game will fall apart so fast if there's basekit unbreakable catch 22ing killers into a loss
3:20 I know people have been worried about slugging and were voicing concerns for a couple of months before this, but for sure slugging is definitely being talked about more urgently now than it was before
They cannot put the Unbreakable base without touching the base game, it would be destroying their own game. No one would want to play as killer anymore, literally no one.
They should reward Killers for hooking,for hooks...
Literally like 19 out of 20 games I play in now, the killer doesn't slug. Yet you claim basekit unbreakable would end the game. Lol dream on
@@sockinvaders How many of those games are against A or S tier killers? Try telling a Sadako or Trapper to go against a good SWF running flashbang (abusing glitches to make it impossible to avoid)/flashlights to win without playing dirty and see how that goes. You shouldn't have to play meta killers to have a normal experience.
I don’t think BHVR is "encouraging" this playstyle (slugging); I think they’re trying to push the game in a direction that makes things harder for killers compared to survivors. Just look at what they did to gen regression metas and how they increased the time survivors stay on hooks. When the meta was Adriana with the tri-gen, they introduced an anti-tri-gen mechanic, and so on.
I think they’re just testing patience, seeing what escape routes killer players have, and trying to undermine them-to the point where killing a survivor in a match will become extremely exhausting (which it already is if you ignore slugging). Eventually, if a killer player wants to have fun, their only options will be to play survivor or quit the game.
Just remember Mathieu Côté’s disrespect when, during a live stream, he told a killer player to "leave this game mode." What they really want is for the game to become so frustrating for killers that they switch to survivor, and then, once there’s a shortage of killer players, they can say, "Why not just add permanent killer bots?" And there you have it-a failed attempt at creating a "horror Helldivers."
I as killer try to play nice but if i actually try going for 12 hooks and i get a decent amount of hooks but still lose then the survivors just say EZ? Even when you play nice it's still not good enough for them.
Another problem is that once you start hooking, you can't switch to slugging (sorta you can due to it still going down no matter what but they will still have a while to bleed out depending how fast you got them to hooks) and vis versa once you start slugging. You can't switch to hooking as then you still have all 12 hook stages to chew through where as bleeding them out would still be the quicker then trying to get through 12 hook states late game
I know players joke about it, but if this keeps up the devs WILL add basekit unbreakable and increase recovery speed. We know they will make a drastic change to make slugging less viable. Anyone that has been playing for a number of years knows this to be true. Give up button for bleedout won't happen. The game will just reduce to bots, and killers will have zero fun playing bots after the first 2 slugs.
They want us to PLAY the game, not circumvent the objective of the game and play to win. Seriously, it seems they have to force us to play the loop they want, and there is always a way around it that killers will take, like an arms race. "The new Slug meta is hurting the game overall, dispite killers feeling like its more fun." How the devs respond will make or break freedom and choices, and it comes down to the same point: "You are responsible for the fun of others in games you play together". In the larger scope, killers playing to NOT be bullied and NOT have to face survivors circumventing the intention of the design is a right they have, but if it kills the game, then your responsibility as a player becomes apparent, and the consequences are paid out.
At the end of the day, you should want fast queue times, not fast, easy wins. You want chases where you are under the gun. You want to overcome a challenge. Driving away players will only make wait times longer, and that is where others fun is our responsibility.
Now that slugging has been taken seriously again, EVEN IF the devs nerf the ever-loving fuck out of perks that activate from hook interactions and saves, the slugging will still be strong and killers wont stop doing it. Even if the slugging perks are all nerfed, or ALL perks get nerfed into being nearly worthless, slugging will not lose any footing at all, because it circumvents the intended sacrifice mechanic, and is really powerful.
Good discussion! I await more developments on the subject, and I personally hope the devs don't overreact before the meta can shift and get out of this early outlier space where survivors are still bringing hook perks in a slug meta. It's too early to tell if survivors are going to adjust, or just whine for a gift.
I don't blame killers for slugging, I blame BHVR for even allowing unfun game mechanics to exist in the game. I am 90% sure in the next 2-3 patches were going to see a similar mechanic for slugging to the anti-camping mechanic. They won't kill it entirely, but they will make it less free.
Oh no it's "free" to not turn your opponents invincible for several seconds
@robertdobbs4156 Brother, killers win no matter what playstyle they choose. Slugging just happens to be dogshit to play against. There is no positive to keeping it in the game.
@@Fotumain13
"Killers win no matter what playstyle they choose"
Tell me you don't play high mmr killer or survivor without telling me.
@kairu_aname Do you want a picture of me beating the best Sodako in the world in a solo lobby?
@@Fotumain13
No because that proves nothing for you except your ability to outrun one dude, and proves the point i made that killers cannot just win with any playstyle.
You really thought you cooked there.
Its kind of crazy how much more enjoyable killer is as a role when you completely counter the possible and common 12-16 second chance perks a match. Its like maybe JUST MAYBE, slugging isn't the problem. Its the power of a lot of survivor perks and how they make the game miserable to play. Survivor mains think slugging is bad, try getting put on a survivor sided map for the 5th time in 1 hour and dealing with stacked ds, dead hards, shoulder and boon ex...killers have second chance perks too, but they aren't near as oppressive
and EVERY DAMN time you hook its like you're punished for it, like woohoo i get more bloodpoints but at this point its not worth it..still make 80-130k a match without hooking with offerings
Unbreakable basekit just means camping on top of the survivor and as soon as they get up you just down it again... thing is they probably will give protection after they get up with unbreakable base kit after they'll see this is what's going on. At that point the game will be unwinnable... even undrawable probably... it's gonna be like: if you get one of them to die you're an extremely good killer...
I think resilience is in the perk list for anti hook is that it allows you to do everything 9% faster including unhooks. When you combine it with other perks like no one left behind and desperate measures you can take a hit, unhook a survivor and that unhooked survivor can take a hit for the unhooker with base kit barrowed denying the trade. I doubt it could be anything else.
What the devs also doesnt realize is that, if they keep nerfing killers (basically), killers will either start quitting the game or become survivor mains which will be the true start of this games downfall. What i mean is, less killers means higher queue times and higher queue times will further lead to people leaving the game and this cycle will continue until the game shuts down. Whether it be fast or slow, the game is dying, unfortunately.
To balance the game around "Top level game play" is crazy in dbd.
The best hook incentive that I can think of that simultaneously will also discourage hook camping, is when someone is hooked for the first time, all healthy survivors gain vulnerability for x amount of time and can be insta downed.
Thus pushing the killer to quickly find someone else and leaving the hook.
And it also pushes survivors off gens, because they know that is where the killer will come to look for them.
cleansing a totem can blanket purge this effect from the entire survivor team, giving swifs more cool playstyles as well cause they cause assign certain roles to get a totem cleanse more quickly to be safe again.
Someone slugged should be able to open a chest to find an item that can mend off the ground.
base unbreakable will be the death of the game honestly
survivors after bringing flashlights, toolboxes, flashbangs and genuinely busted perks wondering why the killer slugs instead of letting the entire team flashlight save
And in like six months from now, so probably by summer/fall, guarantee you the god build and slugging in general is going to be nerfed by behavior, because killers are just not allowed to do anything that benefits them or is fun for them. Period. And of course, behavior has this seriously warped idea of how matches are supposed to go, and how each side is meant to be played, and we all know, WE KNOW - behavior is highly survivor biased. Slugging wouldn't be such a viable option, were this not the case to begin with. If the game actually benefitted killers for hooking and leaving the hook? WE WOULD DO THAT.
I'm a survivor main (only really). I hate slugging, I hate tunneling, I lose the majority of my games, but getting angry never crossed my mind. I still enjoy the game. My having fun isn't tied to me winning the match. An entire thinkpiece defending a playstyle is wild lol
I'm a balanced player, and I'm not killing anymore. I'm done. I simply 8 hook and let everyone run off. Usually playing Nemesis. The devs decide to constantly nerf killer stuff, so it seems that they want survivors to win. And I will exactly do that.
@flegmaniac3462 i think devs are trying to maintain the 60% Killer win-rate. I dont think they want it completely balanced. When they start to notice the Killer percentage get too high they nerf Killer some. I just think of it in terms of horror movies. Most of the time in horror movies the killer takes out over half of the "good guys" before he loses in the end of the movie. Same here in DBD. That's the balance they are trying to maintain.
I think everyone just kind of collectively had enough of the Hook perks and gen regression nerfs. Strange coincidence really
you know what the devs are going to do right. they arnt goign to make hooking feel better they are going to punish you for slugging instead. then they are going to be puzzled why their ques are questionable.
hope survivors will have fun when every killer player that is left plays nurse
@@Lapuris Not even that, maybe Blight, but Nurse takes a fuckton of time before getting good, it's basically learning the game all over again.
I don't play games so other people can have fun. I play the game so I can have fun and I'll play in a way that's fun for me. Just like everyone else does.
How 2 Counter Tunnel and camp as survivor- OTr, Decisive(windows switch) , boon: CoH, expo . If you run that as a survivor even in solo q. You have hard anti tunnel perks. you have solid heal areas and can get saved from sluggin situations. So As a Survivor main i dont see a reason why killers should stop tunneling or slugging when you can have perks that counter all of that imidietly.
@@Rey7Ray
Nah, can't tell survivors that they have to adapt like killers have the whole game's life.
They'll complain about having to run anything that makes them put a thought in.
Ok imagine the opposite. "If a survivor is left on the ground, and not picked up within 20 seconds then a random generator completes" that is the equivalent of how unfun slugging is, but for killer. Suddenly killers wouldn't like that, but just as doing gens is as intended, hooks should be too. The main difference is that killers these days have too much mobility TO slug - dredge, freddy, oni, chucky, alien, wesker, etc that makes slugging too viable. If they nerf ability mobility a little with a longer cooldown we'd see more gens done, and less people on the ground. Possibly reset a mobility cd on a successful hit, and with a long cd after a hook. Leaving someone on the ground however SHOULD punish the killer with either the entity making their movement speed have no bloodlust, or if a survivor is left on the ground for "x" time without a hook then complete a random generator.
"Being slugged is boring" It is literally no different from sitting on a hook except for denying certain perks, technically living longer since 4 minute bleed is longer than the about 3.5 minutes you would naturally have if you sat on a hook for three stages, along with letting you have the agency to move around, go closer to objectives or other survivors so teammates can get you easier, having some control over how quickly you get rescued, not needing to hit skillchecks to avoid dying, and I'm probably missing something else. Sure it means you can't use all your hook-related perks but you get more agency as a tradeoff for not getting free buffs. Not even mentioning that slug builds simply can't use a lot of still fairly decent perks. (it's debatable but imo some killer hook perks are still pretty good unless you have to/want to avoid hooking)
survivors always lie
survivors always project
@@hluccaskywalker8329
Said this before but since survivors also can't think they just say, "i don't want to be on the floor all game"
When they would have been on the hook all game as the contrast.
I tell them the only real difference is advantage and bleeding out faster when on hook.
@kairu_aname I see what you're saying but I was trying to speak from both sides. I've been bled about before for literally no reason and I wasn't upset, I just did something else for 2 minutes and laughed at the goober of a killer who chose to waste his own time when the game was already over. What I was trying to say is that the only difference between being hooked and slugged is that slugs can't screw over their entire team by instantly killing themselves. (Which imo should give you a DC penalty because it's worse for your team than leaving the game is) I try not to bleed survivors out unless I need to for some reason, like there being no hooks nearby, not being able to find them on the ground, or it being faster than hooking, but I don't really see why being slugged is some horrible torture.
@@hluccaskywalker8329
It's "horrible torture" because it robs the advantage(or dc) they gain from being put on hook.
Survivors complain about the normal way they play but when something "new" comes along they complain about the new thing because it's different from the old thing.
Killers use it because it doesn't benefit them to hook survivors.
The devs I think see themselves as The Entity and sometimes I wish they would just stop nerfing every killer success that comes.
Good stuff surv have way to many chances and i barley win trying to hook everyone
7:10 Depends on the loop. The round about is correct. You want that pallet and the only thing they can do is run to the outside or drop it. 28:46 Oh.. he showed it.
11:59 just about 2 mins of why killer sucks to play in 2025.
19:25 On top of low urgency there is also a perk that stalls the progress for 30 secs.
31:45 Ever seen a L or T loop window that wasn't tucked in the corner?
32:18 Bring back survivor stamina system and make hooking perm decrease it. Lol.
I think the game has been trending towards this direction for the last year. The nail in the coffin was shoulder the burden.
The game is in this state now because the devs are simply incompetent.
Perhaps my perspective is skewed because I play the role that is considered the weakest: SoloQ Survivor. Make no mistake, I feel playing as killer is frustrating and stressful sometimes - particularly against full 4 man SWFs. But even though I can agree with the perspectives of most killer mains, I as a solo survivor am generally put in a difficult or impossible situation a lot of the times. All I can tdo is try to synergize, heck I've had more success helping others get out than me actually surviving most matches. But it is what it is. If they nerf hook timers, weaken gen progression perks, and gut second chance perks - I'm screwed there is no way around it. Its very rare to have good and supportive teammates in solo q. And when the ONLY metric for winning is getting out through the gates, I can only hope to have some fun match to match so that losing doesn't feel as bad.
But then again, I am just a filthy casual at DBD I suppose.
I went against this and was slugged 4 games in a row and ngl😭 I officially quit this game. lol I def get what he says about the killer's fun and reasoning behind slugging, I just don't wanna go against it😂 so I'm done with DBD for good ... But I'll keep watching the content its fun to watch. Not fun to go against.
There's nothing wrong with slugging, survivors have as many tools to deal with slugging s they do with hooking, except you're trading direct pressure for guaranteeing a hookstate.
If survivors played smarter, like we used to, instead of bumrushing the killer and throwing a tantrum when they can't get away with tanking hits for free, they could actually counter slugging in the vast majority of cases.
Slugging is ONLY a problem when the killer is flat out refusing to hook and needlessly prolonging the game for it, usually to try to guarantee a 4K.
This could be rectified by allowing survivors the ability to pick themselves up ONLY when ALL survivors are on the ground. It would never come into play outside of obnoxious 4K slugs, so similarly to the AFC gauge, wouldn't be a problem for the typical killer.
Can we atleast give Tru credit for being the one to create and popularizing this build. Did he create slugging? No? Did he create the perfect build for it? Yes.... yes he did.
It's not a perfect build without Forced Hesitation. That perk is a must for slugging.
I like King Wolfes 3rd seal, undying combo with knockout. Haven’t seen him lose wit that, I’ve seen true lode with his.
4:55 Are you going to use your only method of counterplay he forgot to mention as survivor the killer is given abilities for a reason to counter play the survivors and slugging isn’t part of it slugging is there to help survivors have a chance to counter the killer because aside from what he mentioned there isn’t any so intentionally slugging is a skill issue but it’s also the survivors fault for not going to pick up the slugged survivor I lost brain cells listening to this guy
I agree killer certainly shouldn’t have been nerfed into the ground but why can’t we find a middle ground here. Slugging is unfun, okay. killers also need more time. fine with me.
Here is what I’d do. First, bring back gen regression perks. Make them viable again. Secondly, after a continuous minute of a survivor being slugged, let them pick themselves up. If they otherwise get picked up, perks or otherwise, the timer resets.
Make this so it can only occur once per match. This way a survivor doesn’t have to wait 4 minutes before they can play the game again, and can choose if their team is otherwise occupied after being on the ground a full 60 seconds to pick themselves up.
Ultimately it comes down to this: being slugged is dead by daylight at its worst. There is zero interaction you can do. Even doing gens is more interactive.
Killers should not be forced to play this way and should have meaningful ways to take a match back from the jaws of defeat.
At the same time, survivors should have some actual counter play to killers who despite having better options choose to play in an unfun way.
If you want an even HOTTER take here: add unbreakable base kit, lower generator charges by 25% but for every survivor killed, let killers regress a single completed generator.
And before you recoil in anger stew in the thought for a bit. The ability to regress a completed gen is huge. The games will feel closer for both sides (more gens completed before first survivor is out of the game, and a killer could force survivors to play more systemically to avoid getting 3 gen’d)
The problem is, that you’ve nailed their solution already. Guaranteed they’ll introduce unbreakable at base. It’s as you’ve mentioned on stream a bunch, they’ll treat the symptom not the disease.
I’m 3-4 weeks into this game ,haven’t played killer yet..but I don’t blame killers for slugging ,as I do what ever I can to try to get a win and escape as a survivor , so why blame killers for doing the same thing..slug away killers ,slug away….
"BHVR doesnt get it. Doesnt get this. Doesnt get that." Man, they DO get it. They dont want to. Raising survivor's frustrations means having less players playing the game and buying cosmetics for 3rd person survivors.
Also, i compiled the questionnaire (the satisfaction survey) and they know very well what's going on. They didnt need to survey. My idea is that they only did it so they collect on paper people frustrations so they can justify their next "fix": some Bs way that favours survivors as always. That manouver was entirely aimed at justifying their next bullshit move. They know it all. So get ready for the shit coming.
Playing against this build is extremely rough for one reason only. Knockout. Its a perk that only punishes solo players and does absolutely nothing to swfs. The issue is that playing solo already has a much lower win rate as it is, so why run a perk that punishes the group that you already had a good chance of winning against. im ok with being slugged and killer doing chases. thats not really a problem as long as they start hooking once all 4 are down. but not being able to help because we have no idea where anyone is down is just depressing. to me running knockout just screams " i need help beating the people i should already win against". idc about the playstyle but simply the one perk. If you are only slugging because it is fun, slug away. but knockout doesnt add to your enjoyment of chases. youre just punishing the weakest role in the game simply because you can.
Slugging has been a viable way to WIN since 2017. This isn't new
That’s not the argument here, the argument is hooks aren’t rewarding enough.
There were a few slug builds before you started doing them (pretty recently still), but it appears you and a lot of other killers caught on at the same time and now it is really setting in.
You know when your game has a major problem with it when one of its core gameplay mechanics is largely being ignored and one of its other non core mechanic is being used as a core mechanic.
We all know BHVR is trying to find a way to counter this slugging meta so they can keep their entitled survivors happy so the money can keep flowing, but they know if they just straight up allow survivors to pick themselves up without no perks that it will impact the player count by a lot and queue times go up.
Ever since 2018 and especially past early 2020 when the balancing health of this game started to go just everywhere, I have thought of multiple things and had multiple mindsets of what dbd needs to rebalance itself from: nerfing strong survivor perks, reworking sizes of maps and loops, killers needing a 5th perk slot, gens need to be reworked, killer perks need to be buffed, SWF need to be rid of, SWF should be limited down only to 2 players, individual killers need to be reworked/buffed, just all kinds of ideas and solutions.
But now after awhile, especially after a good while of not playing dbd for a year or so, clearing up my mind, refreshing it and whatnot, but still keeping up with everything of the game and especially seeing how BHVR just continues to harm the health of the game, I've come to a single conclusion: all of that won't matter, cause even if BHVR decided to do that, they will do something else that negates those solutions.
So what's the actual solution? For the longest time, dbd and BHVR have tried to stand on the principle that survivors and killers should have an equal playing field and power, but as we have clearly seen and in general for asymmetrical games, that just doesn't work out very well at all (I mean, look what happened with evolved)
So this is the solution: the gameplay of dbd as a whole needs to be overhauled to how it flows and killers have the power roll to the point where it becomes rare to see more than 1 survivor escape, but have matches last longer than 12 minutes. Essentially, the gameplay loop of dbd needs to change where it is consistent for killers to get a 3 or 4 man every match with required effort and intensity, not stressful and with the survival time of survivors being decency long and rewarding, even though your side is not meant to survive or win.
Essentially, killers will decimated matches only when they put in effort, survivors will rarely survive, but the whole goal is to survive as a long as possible before being inevitably sacrificed, with escaping being a once in a blue moon kind of deal.
But of course with this, a whole slew of changes will need to happen, from gens being reworked, to how looping works, to certain killer and survivors perks will need to be changed, map sizes and flow etc.
Suffice to say, this is my mindset right now and will forever be: Dbd was never meant to be balanced with both sides having the same power. Playing killer should have that roll while survivors are meant to make the most out of their situation before they're inevitably sacrificed to move up within the ranks.
The core gameplay of dbd needs to change *completely*
TBH, looks like sometimes the survivors just ask to be slugged when using DS and Dead hard as meta perk, flashlights, grenades. I try to not tunel or camp or slug as long as the survivor is not a dick. and by a dick, I mean, not using flashlights, or grenades.
I've been playing a bit of survivor lately and just went against a killer who slugged the whole match, which was annoying as hell but they were also being extremely toxic on top of that but then again, as a killer main, I've played against sh**ty play styles so many times (which sucks) but it's always the added toxic sh*t that REALLY annoys me. So imho people should play how they like, just don't be jerks about it🤷
all of a sudden all of those gen slowdown metas dont seem that bad, rather have undying/ruin, or pop an pain meta anyday over the slugging meta but thats what the devs/ survivor mains wanted.
Honestly not experiencing any more tunneling rate vs years past. Only 10% of the time I viewed it as toxic (killers not hooking 3-4 survives slugged, wanting them to bleed out or go to not then hook).
34:45 . I had this same exact gripe with those suggestions. It is funny cause those ideas are included in videos about the giving up pandemic usually. How do they not see that people will intentionally bleed themselves out faster if they could?
I have a theory that they are afraid to repeat the Deathgarden story. Where the killer was strong and fun to play. I guess that's why devs prioritize and favorite the opinions of survivors over killers in DBD.
I was catching on to the idea that slugging was useful. Tru3 really brought it home though. He showed what I was feeling was the case. So yes, I do believe that slugging would catch on regardless, but Tru3 is the one that has catapulted the strategy. Best advice I can give you, Tru3 is stop playing the victim. if people don't wanna give you credit, let them not. If they wanna talk shit. Let them. When you start talking about people not wanting to talk about you, it's not a good look. Sincerely, a fan.
An issue with base regression on fresh hooks is that it will end up benefitting proxy campers to the detriment of SoloQ - which remains a plurality of the playerbase. Currently, someone skilled who's focusing on proxy camps can guarantee one to three kills per match. Add any significant basekit regression that lets them keep ignoring gens, it makes their minimal hooks count for that much more. It might even turn proxies into a new meta.
You were one of the old guard talking about a minor basekit Pop, and I think that'd be beneficial. Maybe with some added haste once leaving the hook zone, to get you somewhere faster to use it. Maybe a basekit version of un-obsessed Remember Me, with tokens based on fresh hooks, coupled with a reduced base switch time.
All still changeups to the core game loops that incentivize not just fresh hooks, but specifically turning attention away from single survivors.
Perks should be just that, PERKS. Hot take here, but exhaustion and second chance perks should not be in the game period. Perks should give a minor bonus to specific in-game circumstances and NOT changing fundamental gameplay mechanics. Base kit BT is absolutely insane. I’ll slug until the game isn’t insanely survivor sided. Its not the killers fault that survivors are weak at the game and are removed from the game too quick. Force survivors to improve at the game instead of giving them an insane amount of chances.
The problem with this meta is the anti slugging meta perk will follow and those perks are more game changing. Think about it we got boon unbreakable, unbreakable. We're going to live forever. For the people the list goes on as filth survivor main id rather us go down this path.
why does he keep hinting to being the one who made the "god build"? like bros trying to take credit for a well known build
I don’t really play this busted game anymore but I’m so glad survivor players are angry. So awesome.
The problem is BHVR has made a game where slugging is incentivized, and hooking is disincentivized. Make hooking more rewarding, nerf 2nd chance and flashbang/flashlights, and then nerf slugging. This would make the game way more enjoyable for everyone. Whenever I play survivor, it fucking sucks playing against sluggers, and whenever I play killer, it fucking sucks going for hooks. Design a better game or DbD will just die.
The only issue I have is with the statement that something is "hard" at the top level. I dont' want the devs balancing this game based off the top 1% of players. The vast majority of players are not and are just playing casually. When you start balancing the game around the very few, it will be extremely awful. I've witnessed this in countless MMO's and other MM games.
There could be a way to balance around defined segments of mmr. Most killers will be weakened in low and mid mmr that way, until they reach 60% kill rate in every skill segment. In that way casual players can experience balanced gameplay, without ruining it for anyone.
As a survivor main I'm more of a troll simp for my favor killer type person idc on winning or losing but Solo Q is already a nightmare if your slugging me and everyone else still on 5 or 4 gens I'm not gonna waste more time on getting back up and bleeding out over and over again.. I'm just gonna wrap my PS5 with a rubber band to hold the bumper trigger to finish bleeding out to get to the next game, And if it gets worse for certain killers then I'm just wait another 3 months again..and yes it's toxic to slug other's when gens aren't barely use with a silly casual team that goes down in seconds
Honestly I thought his video was pretty solid. If I’m running a slugging build I use Forced Hesitation so that as soon as I put the injured survivor back down the other can’t get away bc they are so slow
I ran a slug build on blight and it’s very over powered.
Where is the link to the original video?
I feel like if this play style gets more popular, unbreakable will become base kit
There is one counterplay to flash bangs. Doctors madness? It denies all items to be used in tier 3. If I am correct at that.
It is true
Yes and no.
If You're chasing one with a flash it will stop that one, but it won't stop the second one that you aren't chasing from showing up just as you're picking someone up.
@ Yes. But if you are aware of other survivors being in tier 2. You can just static blast them nice and quick into tier 3. And or shock them while having your down slugged for a moment. There is stuff you can do.
@@jazzailsteinigen939 yes but I don't get your point. Playing doc vs otr ds dh is still absolute hell
@ It is. I'm just saying there is a killer out there that can do something about items is all. Styptic, flashlights, bangs, sabo. Just some trivia.
BHVR will not get it until there will eventually be people not getting on to kill anymore. Then you will have to 10-15 min 2v8 lobby wait times for survivors and they will wonder why this is happening and what happened to the killers. They will then look at it the wrong way again and make the game continue to sink further.