This comment was made by the long term Lot Nation, like this comment if you believe in long term Lot and think Dani Is wrong. Long live Axe bros, rest in piss lancereaver 💪💪🪓🪓
Using Fir because she's a second Rutger - I sleep. Using Fir because she has an adorable support with her dad and you want to see them fight together - points finger.
For those who don't feel like watching the whole video here's a quick summary for you: Fir ((born: 1998 [age 25-26])[2] is an American TH-camr, Nintendo streamer, and speedrunner.[3] He streams an average of four times a week. Most of his Twitch emotes were made by @ThatLazyRat, as well his "softBounce" emote being made by @Sixelona, his twitch UI being made by @SaltMalkin, Twitch Icon being made by @scivious_, and bit badges being made by @KeylligraphyInk. He is most known for his videos and streams in which he plays Super Mario Odyssey. He will often play various mods of the game which change how the game plays, how the game looks, or even change the levels entirely. He also has a gimmick in his videos where he mimics the characters in the video using cutouts and puppets.
@@WanOlDan the tier list was a goldmine for bad comments like that. There were some people who raised good / interesting points too for sure, but those are less funny 🤷🏻♀️
Wendy can triangle attack! Yeah let's just ignore the fact that Swordmasters in FE6 can reach past 100% crit w/ supports and a triangle attack basically just functions as a guarantee crit. Honestly, even if it takes more time to grind out, I would rather have 2 units who can land a guarantee crit with some extra buffs (especially since said 2 units can support each other which also gives them a crit boost) than awkwardly position 3 units w/ god awful move in a pseudo tri formation just to crit one enemy.
The funny thing with fir is in order to recrute her you need Noah anyway and his one claim is his higher sword rank so in a lot of my playthrough I end up training him instead of her since he has those chapters before to train and he can make decent use of the pirates
7:12 I actually disagree about 1-2 range being preferable for Fir instead of 30% crit. We already have a unit that has a similiar statline to Fir and 1-2 range in form of axes, and that's Echidna. I use Echidna in every one of my runs, and I can tell you she has 3~4 chapters where she is a very good unit, after which she falls off pretty hard. 1. Afther few chapter she can no longer hit one rounding thresholds on a lot of enemies. 2. She has higher might axes that sometimes let her one round some enemies, but most of the time she is weight down by them so much, she stops doubling. 3. Her bulk is abysmal which prevents her from enemy phasing too many enemies with the coveted 1-2 range to deal chip damage for other units. 4. A personal issue that I have, is that her luck is really low, because of which she constanly face low % crits from most enemies. The point is Echidna will not even have a chance to one round majority of the enemies she faces because of her statline. Fir does have that chance in form of 30 crit. When you look at one round of combat 30 crit doens't seem like much, it's unreliable even with killing edges and wo daos, but you go against so many enemies in this game that it doesn't matter. 30% crit over the course of 80 enemies is 24 enemies dead, where Echidna with her 3% crit will get 2 if you're lucky. T On average Fir will have better combat because of her crit, on average Echidna will not because she can't one round without crits which are less likely. TLDR; If Fir got axes or javeling instead of 30% crit she would just be Echidna that you would need to train, and Echidna becomes a middling unit very quickly after you recruit her.
If you're doubling and only need 1 crit, 30% is actually decent reliability; assuming 100% hit you have over a 50% chance to get at least one crit (70%*70% is 49% chance to not crit twice)
Yeah i agree. Its easy to say any sword locked character could benefit from reliable 1-2 range. Why would fir specifically want it? Also, what do we mean? Based on the context i would assume dani meant access to lances or axes, which would be good but also make fir basically a low move cav/paladin, which is a much more crowded niche in fe6 than swordmaster. Which in a way would make fir worse That said dani says swords are probably better than 1-2 javelins or hand axes in fe6 later which yeah
I could've written my University assignment and spent staying up until 3 AM for something useful, but it's worth it to watch another Fire Emblem Analysis video. Also Lancereaver
See, this is why I like using Ogier, at least we're mostly in agreement on his unit quality. Of course that agreed opinion is that he's bad but everyone's allowed to have their guilty pleasures. Plus between chapters 8x and 9, there's enough axe units that I can use to get him up to speed.
You see, I actually brought Ogier to the final map in my hardmode ironman recently, and while his poor combat was mostly due to being underleveled compared to my other swordsmen, his most damning trait is that 20% defense growth. For a frontline unit, he required a bit too much support to hold his own against a group of enemies.
@@GMOPsyche yeah, though in his defense (pun not intended) nobody in FE6 (besides Karel) has a defense growth above 40%, the cast as a whole can't take too many hits.
Honestly I really just think you made some fair points here, and I concur with them for the most part. I certainly LIKE Fir, but she definitely feels like the type of unit where, like... if you WANT to use her, training her WILL probably pay off decently well and you'll definitely be able to find stuff for her to do, but she's hardly essential or a unit you'll really MISS if you decide to forgo training her. Actually, I think that's a pretty cool kind of unit, because it's in those units that I think you see a lot of individual player expression through team-building. Do YOU, personally, really value what a particular unit brings to the team? Do you just really like their character and/or design? Go ahead and use them, and they'll do just fine without putting too much strain on you to make them work! If you feel the opposite, though, no pressure! You'll also do just fine without them.
I think you are undervaluing the 30% crit bonus. If we assume 60% crit which Fir or Rutger will likely have more than against most foes then it's actually pretty reliable to assume you'll crit. They actually would have around a 84% chance to crit once assuming they double. Both also often need a crit to either one-round and deal substantial damage to promoted foes etc. This is approximately the same as a displayed 74% chance to hit. Certainly not guaranteed but that's still happening a very significant amount of the time even over a single combat.
Also, the weird assumption that you are guaranteed to be using and promoting Rutger. What if you aren't using Rutger for whatever reason? Didn't recruit him (one time I beat chapter 4 before he arrived but this was on normal in a ltc draft where I didn't draft him), he died, you choose not to use him, etc. Playing FE6 HM without Rutger isn't very difficult and he isn't forced deployed. My advice to people overrating Rutger early game is try playing without him. Recruit him and give his killing edge to someone else. A lot of what Rutger does is actually 1 part Rutger and 1 part Killing Edge but he gets all the credit. However, I do think you describe Fir accurately. Fir is a good filler unit. This is more about there always being an assumption that you are using Rutger if you are using Fir. Speaking on your tier list video, I do think saying you can do it with less effort than Fir is weird because what does effort mean? Like difficulty probably not? Fir is pretty easy to train. Do you mean EXP? Fir requires easy EXP if you want to immediately get her to be able to promote. Fir even at base or getting a level or 2 in her join does contribute in the Western Isles it's not free exp but Fir is at least accurate and has the Wo Dao. She is probably (maybe Noah since you considered him one in the video, not counting Shin as a training unit personally) the only training unit that can reliable deal with these maps without considerable training.
Funnily enough I used Fir as my only swordmaster in my first (and so far only) fe6 playthrough because my Rutger had gotten strength screwed and she did the job just fine. She wasn't my MVP (that was Lilina) but a good contribution to my army nonetheless.
I really like wade. Build supports with allen and shanna, and it really patches up his low accuracy, and improves his damage too, not to mention then allen and shanna can also support roy and make a really powerful squad that covers every physical weapon type.
I do be loving a good reaver weapon on my units with only 1 weapon type... Like, say, a LANCEREAVER on Fir! All jokes aside, I quite like playing on hard difficulties whilst levelling up ALL my units, so that does skew comparisons between units a bit :p Fir can definitely become a useful one-range deleter, but she needs the xp to do so and will still remain quite frail. So she's "good-with-investment-but-with-a-drawback", like a LOT of units in FE6 ^^
you actually get a 3rd hero crest in a chest in chapter 16, not very early, but worth noting, however its unlikely your gonna want to drag an unpromoted hero crest user through to chapter 16
Gonna say this before I finish watching the video: I think what people kinda forget is that Fir is basically supposed to be your Rutger replacement just in case something happened to him, so like yeah she isn’t going to be anywhere near as good as Rutger but “worse Rutger” is still pretty good.
This video got me thinking. There are about 10-15ish units with valuable utility/combat that you can't live without(or at least will significantly slow you down if you don't take advantage of). Which doesn't sound like a lot, but compare that to Fe7/8 and I think this game has a pretty interesting meta. Fir is obviously not one of them, since she doesn't have irreplaceable early game combat like Rutger, and doesn't have a horse, but she is pretty good when compared to the rest of the cast. A promoted Fir is one of the few units that you can throw into a horde of enemies(preferably on a forest since she is still pretty frail) and expect her to survive and maybe kill everything in the process regardless of the enemy type. However, infantry units are sort of a burden in this game since the maps are quite big, and as you pointed out, it's worth asking if you should promote any Hero Crest units outside of Rutger. It might be better to invest in Noah or Tate, as while their combat will be worse, they can assist Marcus/Zealot/Percival/Alance/Miledy/Shanna on the front lines by trading around weapons, take dropping units as needed(units like Fir ironically), and maybe even contributing with some combat here and there once they level up a bit.
Fir is a unit that does suffer from "overshadow from the best units". However swordmasters are good and fun in fire emblem 6, so it a not a bad choice for double swordmaster. Will said she better then her mother. If fire emblem 6 does get a remake and make warrior for all genders, I would reclass to the fighter warrior line.
I like fir, shes neat. Her support with bartre and noah are both fun cute supports. Ive not played FE6 much (project ember and FE6 normal mode) so im not qualified to rank her as a unit but shes fun. Also you CAN always fix weapon triangle problems with the lance reaver but how often is that really that useful?
My first playthrough of FE6 my Rutger only wanted to gain Defense, while Dieck and Fir ended up getting pretty good level ups. That’s what I like about FE6: many of the units are viable if a better unit gets screwed and lancereavers are relatively accessible for sword-locked units
Hey editing advice. (At least my taste.) Next time you do a crazy speed up of rambling talking. While funny. I think it'd have gotten a tiny bit of a bonus if it was trailing off into white noise. Maybe a black stare of characters the same argument can be made for just slowly appearing on the edges of the video. That way people don't tune out because of the hyper speak. And you get a free joke about how ALOT of the units we get access too fall into a lot of similar places.
I think C tier is perfect, it sums up exactly what she is as a training project, the hero’s crest could go to anyone else but if you give it to her you have a second rutger that’s slightly different like a c it means they can be good but might not be worth it(to me at least)
There is something worth note it about Fir and Rutger. Rutger can be LCK screwd and this can hurt his dodge tank capacity as a Swordmaster and he might even face some low % crits and for that he can fall off a little bit towards the endgame. Fir comes later but she have better growths in LCK and SPD what it means she will be a better dogde tank Swordmaster. You can fix/improve both of them with support bonus and stat bonus however while Rutger have shaky STR growth and shaky LCK growth, Fir only deals with shaky STR so in theory its easier fix/improve Fir's performance. The last thing about them its something no one talks about, and its about Swordmaster itself. in FE 6 Female Swordmaster have 25% STR growth while Male Swordmaster have 20% STR growth, and you might think "why does this matter", well... Rutger have 30% base STR growth while Fir have 25% base STR growth, therefore as Swordsmasters they will have THE EXACT SAME STR GROWTH. Rutger base STR growth 30% + (M) Swordmaster STR growth 20% = 50% final STR growth. Fir base STR growth 25% + (F) Swordmaster STR growth 25% = 50% final STR growth. Its undeniable, Rutger performs better but this is due to his availability over Fir. Fir can surpass Rutger towards the mid/endgame if you decide to train her. To conclude, in my opinion, Rutger deserves the S rating for his availability and contributions throughout the game, however, I strongly believe Fir is right behind him. She deserves the A rating as a great long term unit.
@@DaniDoyle it's because english is not my native lauguage, so i read and read again to exercise my knowledge and to make sure i type everything correctly so people can understand me. sorry if its bothering you, its not my intention. if per chance this is a problem, then i'll stop commenting for the time being.
PLUS: I thought if I deleted the comment the TH-cam notification about my comment would disappear, so it didn't occur to me that you were constantly being notified about the same thing. sorry about that.
Fir was amazing in my run because I gave her all my kills, stat boosters, Secret Shop doped, and any other bonus so surely that means she's S+ Tier because this doesn't apply to anyone else and I like being right. 😡😡😡
Idk why I watched this, I still haven't gotten around to playing FE6 so my only context is everything that was said in this video, but hey it was a good way to pass the time and may have convinced me to use Fir when I do get around to FE6
honestly i usually prioritize fir because my rutger usually ends up sooo bad. my fir consistently outranks him in strength even though theoretically that shouldn't be happening since rutger's strength growth is 5% higher than hers. i really value strength more than skill (when skill is already adequate, where you start to get more concerned about critical hits than if your unit can actually hit something) so rutger always ends up taking a backseat to fir in my late games. idk. the fe gods hate me. sometimes i wish rutger had like 35% growth for strength but it is what it is. it's weird bc i am acutely aware that rutger is THE best unit in the game along with milady. but my gameplays just always never reflect that. on the other hand when i play fe7, my eliwood always turns out amazing even though i know he's a subpar unit.
My main takeaway about Fir's use of the chapter 9 pirates as free exp is that they're pirates, so a sword unit is the easiest way to deal with them. If you like to play somewhat fast like me, you probably don't want to have an entire composition down south to help someone like Shin kill them all safely, while someone like Fir or Ogier (who I actually trained here once since Noah died on chapter 8 from a missclick) can farm them all with just a healer and maybe an extra unit while you kill all the other enemies. But I admit that if you don't care about turns anyone else can abuse them.
My personal opinion of Fir for my runs of FE6 wasn't changed by the video, that being that she isn't worth it given the opportunity cost (other training projects mainly), but that doesn't mean she is a total meme kebab unit. And even if she was, it doesn't matter because you should use the units that you have fun with. I'm a Sophia enjoyer myself. I also offer you a Lancereaver for this excellent video.
It's not a deep enough concept for it's own video tbh. I talk about it in both my tier list and this video. Anima magic is good, Liliana joins right before two breather maps, one of which is full of stationary enemies. High magic growth and enough speed to double a good chunk of enemies (Even though it's less than lugh) plus free Roy support.
@@DaniDoyle You say that Lilina has enough speed to double some enemies while in the video you say that Dieck constantly fails to meet doubling threesholds and sometimes gets doubled. Lilina has 13 speed at 20/1 needing promotion and a training arc while Dieck has 13 speed at level 15 before promotion and he gets Easy Exp early due to having some of the best bases in the earlygame. Checkmate Lilinaheads
@@xiulanplateau8882 oh, for sure she's on the same speed tier as Dieck, and it's a problem if she's front lining, but her overall bulk is also a problem if shes Frontlining. She'll double low res enemies like armors and wyverns, which is the important thing, and for the anime she's not doubling she can just attack without being countered. The high magic means that I typically find she's doing around the same damage as Lugh.
Interesting vid! Will consider training Fir next time around since I've wanted to play with Noah. lancereaver/reverse triangle could be good option for them
Personally, I end up using Fir a LOT on my runs. I don't like Rutger, and I absolutely HATE the Jagen archetype so I usually end up with a lot of training projects, and Fir is one of the more consistent units out of all of them. Plus I find her low strength can be backed up by her fire affinity and some early support grinding with Noah (because yes) Does my refusal do use Marcus and my tendency to avoid rutger make my life unnecessarily hard? Yeah, but who needs a cav when Lugh gets +6 on magic before promotion? Besides, Alan is right there.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Sue (and to a lancereaver extent, Shin) if you have more to say beyond your tier list. Bow knights are such unique units - I always try to use one
I prefer on of the axebros in Echidna route over Fir but she's perfectly fine as a unit. She had a gamer weapon type and pretty alright stats, I dont think pitting units against each other when discussing units so to me she's a pretty solid unit. Rutger is so bonkers nutty that i think people can tend to overshadow other hero crest options. Also NM Fir is so awful, like ungodly terrible her bad strength and defense growth makes itself apparent with her awful bases
Hero Crest ladder, imo: Rutger > Dieck > Fir > Gonzalez > Garbage Gonzalez just has too many issues to be better than her imo. Anyways, on your original tier list, I defended Fir, but I do think C tier is probably where she belongs. She’s good if you train her and can nab that second early Hero Crest, but you can skip her pretty painlessly. [Lancereaver]
First of all, it's 2024 and I cannot fathom how Rutger is still being questioned as one of the best units in the game. Now, Dani as usually I agree with you on most points, BUT Rutger by ch9 is the de facto best unit you have. I'm sorry but Marcus has already fallen, Shanna needs much babying and yeah she's a flyer in theory, but there are too many bow enemies so she must move like an armor knight to be safe. Later, he's eclipsed by Melady and Perceval because of their bulk, and tied offensively only by Sin. Tate and the sages you mentioned aren't even close in HM. No as for Fir I totally agree. I'm sorry about the long comment, but I feel FE 6 is kind of my specialty having finished the game 7 times in HM and had countless unfinished iron man runs, sooo I get a bit triggered xD
There are a total of 6 archers in chapter 9, and it's very easy for shanna to avoid them. Promoted Allance, Promoted Shanna Marcus/Zealot, and Shin will all have better performance than Rutger IMO, because despite his speed lead, they are fast enough to double the pletora axe units. Rutgers still very good at this point, but his flaws are starting to show, and its only downhill from there. I'm not saying Rutgers bad (I had him jn 2nd or 3rd in my tier list), just that you're not desperate for a second one.
@@DaniDoyle You certainly don't need a second one. Shanna avoiding them means she doesn't fight though. I totally forgot about Zealot 😅. Shin can kill one enemy per turn and I doubt a promoted Cav can perform better. I mean if we specifically talk about the axe users in western isles maybe. However, after that, Rutger's performance actually increases compared to your army. Allance either won't even double or won't ORKO. On average the units you mentioned will struggle to do damage and Shanna will struggle with her bulk on top of that. Sin again is amazing but he kills only one unit before promotion and feeding him kills is a big investment turnwise. I think though our general view is similar. I'm just nit-picking here. Reaching the end game Rutger certainly does fall off but his contribution is immense before that.
A thing I found is that sharing a weapon with the lord is always a bad idea. The way to overcome that issue is to make other units handle significant objectives. Combat of course, and the utility skills as a bonus of improved gaming mechanics. Heros and Swordmasters were one in the same before, just timing of strength or speed in certain chapters of a playthrough. Now HP and Skills is the introduced factor. In this case, I'd say Fir has more dynamic supports than Rutger. It's for someone who wants more characterization of their units.
Actually she's her own archetype, the fir archetype (female myrm who joins after a male one with d swords even though the man had c. Examples include marissa)
@@DaniDoyle I see Fir as a replacement for Rutger if he (somehow, as unlikely as it is) dies. Just like how this game is full of a bunch of units meant to replace others in case the first one dies, ie Noah and Trent for Alen and Lance, Lilina for Lugh, Ojay for Dieck. Fir is the unit you can train if you really need a reliable sword user like Rutger but you lost him. I just think that she comes a little too late to fill that role so that intent by her design is likely overlooked by the community as Rutger stops being leagues ahead when she joins and she's never going to reach where your Rutger was before his death and have his impact by the time she gets there. Because that time has passed. So since she can't do that, no one points that out. But that's likely what was intended. That, or she's the Marissa archetype.
@@DaniDoyle like I always say reject meta use you're favorites heck littlrly in my channel description I literally let people know there favorite fire emblem units can be good and to not let anyone convince them otherwise
It's okay I forgive her for being incredibly mediocre because Bartre's her dad so she gets extra cool points, case closed Off topic but axes are better than lancereavers... I can't believe the axe bros hate smh /j
Im a roy hater from day one so i wish he were lower on that tier list but i get it. If he werent forced deployed in every chapter i think hed be bad filler, but as is hes probably a bit better than everyone below him. He just loses 1 mil points with me bcuz its so much easier to not use roy than to use him. Like ike isnt amazing, but its more tedious to avoid using him. Roy? Hey marcus! Pick that sucker up and beat the game with him 1/1. Fe7 you could kinda argue is like this, and erica in fe8, but roy is so so easy to avoid using the whole time and training and using him sucks. I think arena abusing him to 20 in chapter 5 in normal mode and still having him fall off well before his promotion really cemented it for me
I like fir though. The gold medalist for replacement units imo. Sometimes i just use her and rutger, bcuz why not see 4 cool crit animations per turn? Lol
@@Supreyo Yea, I am a certified fir defender, I even argued for 200 comments over her viability with another guy called guru cheeks, in the end, we agreed to disagree, but it’s still funny to look back at that.
My hypothetical litmus test for Fir is this. If Fir was a scruffy dude, would any discussion about Fir being good remain? If Fir was just Guy, would this discussion even exist? It's a cruel world that this is such an important conversation topic on somewhat midling fire emblem units, and yet we live in it.
Honestly fir isn't bad, Rutger is just overrated. if most of his contributions come before chapter 10 that's just sad (and you certainly don't need him for chapter 9).
@@DracozombieFE in this context, rutger's early game contribution is about as much as dieck or alance. i do agree he is good. but the better you get at fe, the worse rutger gets imo.
This comment was made by the long term Lot Nation, like this comment if you believe in long term Lot and think Dani Is wrong. Long live Axe bros, rest in piss lancereaver 💪💪🪓🪓
@@maxyaju4293 🪓🧑🏿🚒🎸
Can't spell Fire Emblem without Fir 🔥🔥
e Emblem
Can't pronounce FE without Effie 🔥🔥
@@hansgretl1787 It's an electric, more ecological emblem?
@@Lani_337 I want a Sci-Fire Emblem game.
@@hansgretl1787 Same. Closest we ever got to Sci-Fi was that stage with the dubstep track in the golden deer route.
Using Fir because she's a second Rutger - I sleep. Using Fir because she has an adorable support with her dad and you want to see them fight together - points finger.
Echidna gaming
I use her for both lol
I dont use Fir because shes a second Rutger. i don't use her for her supports either. I use her because you like myrtle green :3
y-you used different memes
For those who don't feel like watching the whole video here's a quick summary for you:
Fir ((born: 1998 [age 25-26])[2] is an American TH-camr, Nintendo streamer, and speedrunner.[3] He streams an average of four times a week.
Most of his Twitch emotes were made by @ThatLazyRat, as well his "softBounce" emote being made by @Sixelona, his twitch UI being made by @SaltMalkin, Twitch Icon being made by @scivious_, and bit badges being made by @KeylligraphyInk.
He is most known for his videos and streams in which he plays Super Mario Odyssey. He will often play various mods of the game which change how the game plays, how the game looks, or even change the levels entirely. He also has a gimmick in his videos where he mimics the characters in the video using cutouts and puppets.
This is an accurate summary thank you for your hard work
Fir is my favorite Radd archetype ❤️
Radd mentioned‼‼
Imagine being Radd when Ceasar exists less than a foot away from you
@@brendantw imagine being Caesar or Radd when Ogma is less than half an inch away from you
@@magicfish8213 ogma inches 👀
Clicked on this video just to hear about Rutger. Love that guy
Can’t believe Dani got her hands on a turn wheel
I often use Fir for my own dumb reason which is that I like using characters that are canonically connected to the fe7 characters
Valid!
"Fir is a bottom 5 unit, honestly worst than wendy, at least wendy can triangle attack"
Jesus Christ. 🤣🤣🤣
@@WanOlDan the tier list was a goldmine for bad comments like that. There were some people who raised good / interesting points too for sure, but those are less funny 🤷🏻♀️
@@DaniDoyle if only we could tri attack with 3 swordmasters, which would clearly be very helpful 😛
Wendy can triangle attack! Yeah let's just ignore the fact that Swordmasters in FE6 can reach past 100% crit w/ supports and a triangle attack basically just functions as a guarantee crit.
Honestly, even if it takes more time to grind out, I would rather have 2 units who can land a guarantee crit with some extra buffs (especially since said 2 units can support each other which also gives them a crit boost) than awkwardly position 3 units w/ god awful move in a pseudo tri formation just to crit one enemy.
The funny thing with fir is in order to recrute her you need Noah anyway and his one claim is his higher sword rank so in a lot of my playthrough I end up training him instead of her since he has those chapters before to train and he can make decent use of the pirates
7:12
I actually disagree about 1-2 range being preferable for Fir instead of 30% crit.
We already have a unit that has a similiar statline to Fir and 1-2 range in form of axes, and that's Echidna.
I use Echidna in every one of my runs, and I can tell you she has 3~4 chapters where she is a very good unit, after which she falls off pretty hard.
1. Afther few chapter she can no longer hit one rounding thresholds on a lot of enemies.
2. She has higher might axes that sometimes let her one round some enemies, but most of the time she is weight down by them so much, she stops doubling.
3. Her bulk is abysmal which prevents her from enemy phasing too many enemies with the coveted 1-2 range to deal chip damage for other units.
4. A personal issue that I have, is that her luck is really low, because of which she constanly face low % crits from most enemies.
The point is Echidna will not even have a chance to one round majority of the enemies she faces because of her statline. Fir does have that chance in form of 30 crit. When you look at one round of combat 30 crit doens't seem like much, it's unreliable even with killing edges and wo daos, but you go against so many enemies in this game that it doesn't matter. 30% crit over the course of 80 enemies is 24 enemies dead, where Echidna with her 3% crit will get 2 if you're lucky. T
On average Fir will have better combat because of her crit, on average Echidna will not because she can't one round without crits which are less likely.
TLDR; If Fir got axes or javeling instead of 30% crit she would just be Echidna that you would need to train, and Echidna becomes a middling unit very quickly after you recruit her.
If you're doubling and only need 1 crit, 30% is actually decent reliability; assuming 100% hit you have over a 50% chance to get at least one crit (70%*70% is 49% chance to not crit twice)
Yeah i agree. Its easy to say any sword locked character could benefit from reliable 1-2 range. Why would fir specifically want it? Also, what do we mean? Based on the context i would assume dani meant access to lances or axes, which would be good but also make fir basically a low move cav/paladin, which is a much more crowded niche in fe6 than swordmaster. Which in a way would make fir worse
That said dani says swords are probably better than 1-2 javelins or hand axes in fe6 later which yeah
fir is actually the better swordmaster in fe6 because she is a girl and i like women. easy mistake to make though. i won't hold it against you.
I could've written my University assignment and spent staying up until 3 AM for something useful, but it's worth it to watch another Fire Emblem Analysis video.
Also Lancereaver
See, this is why I like using Ogier, at least we're mostly in agreement on his unit quality. Of course that agreed opinion is that he's bad but everyone's allowed to have their guilty pleasures. Plus between chapters 8x and 9, there's enough axe units that I can use to get him up to speed.
@@shanegiorgio4713 also Gba heroes go so hard
Honestly I think Ogier is a little underrated. I always forget how cracked his Growths are compared to your average fe6 scrubs.
You see, I actually brought Ogier to the final map in my hardmode ironman recently, and while his poor combat was mostly due to being underleveled compared to my other swordsmen, his most damning trait is that 20% defense growth. For a frontline unit, he required a bit too much support to hold his own against a group of enemies.
@@GMOPsyche yeah, though in his defense (pun not intended) nobody in FE6 (besides Karel) has a defense growth above 40%, the cast as a whole can't take too many hits.
Mom, can we have Rutger?
No honey, we got him killed by a 7%. You'll have to get Rutger at home.
Rutger at home:
Honestly I really just think you made some fair points here, and I concur with them for the most part. I certainly LIKE Fir, but she definitely feels like the type of unit where, like... if you WANT to use her, training her WILL probably pay off decently well and you'll definitely be able to find stuff for her to do, but she's hardly essential or a unit you'll really MISS if you decide to forgo training her.
Actually, I think that's a pretty cool kind of unit, because it's in those units that I think you see a lot of individual player expression through team-building. Do YOU, personally, really value what a particular unit brings to the team? Do you just really like their character and/or design? Go ahead and use them, and they'll do just fine without putting too much strain on you to make them work! If you feel the opposite, though, no pressure! You'll also do just fine without them.
I love ALL Dani Doyle videos!!!! ❤
I think you are undervaluing the 30% crit bonus. If we assume 60% crit which Fir or Rutger will likely have more than against most foes then it's actually pretty reliable to assume you'll crit. They actually would have around a 84% chance to crit once assuming they double. Both also often need a crit to either one-round and deal substantial damage to promoted foes etc. This is approximately the same as a displayed 74% chance to hit. Certainly not guaranteed but that's still happening a very significant amount of the time even over a single combat.
Also, the weird assumption that you are guaranteed to be using and promoting Rutger. What if you aren't using Rutger for whatever reason? Didn't recruit him (one time I beat chapter 4 before he arrived but this was on normal in a ltc draft where I didn't draft him), he died, you choose not to use him, etc. Playing FE6 HM without Rutger isn't very difficult and he isn't forced deployed. My advice to people overrating Rutger early game is try playing without him. Recruit him and give his killing edge to someone else. A lot of what Rutger does is actually 1 part Rutger and 1 part Killing Edge but he gets all the credit. However, I do think you describe Fir accurately. Fir is a good filler unit. This is more about there always being an assumption that you are using Rutger if you are using Fir.
Speaking on your tier list video, I do think saying you can do it with less effort than Fir is weird because what does effort mean? Like difficulty probably not? Fir is pretty easy to train. Do you mean EXP? Fir requires easy EXP if you want to immediately get her to be able to promote. Fir even at base or getting a level or 2 in her join does contribute in the Western Isles it's not free exp but Fir is at least accurate and has the Wo Dao. She is probably (maybe Noah since you considered him one in the video, not counting Shin as a training unit personally) the only training unit that can reliable deal with these maps without considerable training.
@@Gligar1bro just use Trec, solves all your problems
Fir more like uhh
So true
Funnily enough I used Fir as my only swordmaster in my first (and so far only) fe6 playthrough because my Rutger had gotten strength screwed and she did the job just fine. She wasn't my MVP (that was Lilina) but a good contribution to my army nonetheless.
The correct use of the hero crest is Geese and I will not acknowledge any arguments to the contrary
🪿
Geese supremacy! We must rise up!
Geese is based.
I really like wade. Build supports with allen and shanna, and it really patches up his low accuracy, and improves his damage too, not to mention then allen and shanna can also support roy and make a really powerful squad that covers every physical weapon type.
Lancereaver
Honestly, really good insight I didn't ever consider.
She’s can be good, however you don’t need another Lapis.
You can never have enough milk
Diluted with water of course
Don't forget a healthy snack of weeds to wash down the water milk! (Please do not eat the weeds)
Female myrmidon? yes please! Every time.
I do be loving a good reaver weapon on my units with only 1 weapon type...
Like, say, a LANCEREAVER on Fir!
All jokes aside, I quite like playing on hard difficulties whilst levelling up ALL my units, so that does skew comparisons between units a bit :p
Fir can definitely become a useful one-range deleter, but she needs the xp to do so and will still remain quite frail. So she's "good-with-investment-but-with-a-drawback", like a LOT of units in FE6 ^^
you actually get a 3rd hero crest in a chest in chapter 16, not very early, but worth noting, however its unlikely your gonna want to drag an unpromoted hero crest user through to chapter 16
Gonna say this before I finish watching the video:
I think what people kinda forget is that Fir is basically supposed to be your Rutger replacement just in case something happened to him, so like yeah she isn’t going to be anywhere near as good as Rutger but “worse Rutger” is still pretty good.
This video got me thinking. There are about 10-15ish units with valuable utility/combat that you can't live without(or at least will significantly slow you down if you don't take advantage of). Which doesn't sound like a lot, but compare that to Fe7/8 and I think this game has a pretty interesting meta.
Fir is obviously not one of them, since she doesn't have irreplaceable early game combat like Rutger, and doesn't have a horse, but she is pretty good when compared to the rest of the cast. A promoted Fir is one of the few units that you can throw into a horde of enemies(preferably on a forest since she is still pretty frail) and expect her to survive and maybe kill everything in the process regardless of the enemy type.
However, infantry units are sort of a burden in this game since the maps are quite big, and as you pointed out, it's worth asking if you should promote any Hero Crest units outside of Rutger. It might be better to invest in Noah or Tate, as while their combat will be worse, they can assist Marcus/Zealot/Percival/Alance/Miledy/Shanna on the front lines by trading around weapons, take dropping units as needed(units like Fir ironically), and maybe even contributing with some combat here and there once they level up a bit.
I propose Ç tier where she is C tier but she also isnt
Fir is a unit that does suffer from "overshadow from the best units". However swordmasters are good and fun in fire emblem 6, so it a not a bad choice for double swordmaster. Will said she better then her mother.
If fire emblem 6 does get a remake and make warrior for all genders, I would reclass to the fighter warrior line.
I like fir, shes neat. Her support with bartre and noah are both fun cute supports. Ive not played FE6 much (project ember and FE6 normal mode) so im not qualified to rank her as a unit but shes fun. Also you CAN always fix weapon triangle problems with the lance reaver but how often is that really that useful?
My first playthrough of FE6 my Rutger only wanted to gain Defense, while Dieck and Fir ended up getting pretty good level ups. That’s what I like about FE6: many of the units are viable if a better unit gets screwed and lancereavers are relatively accessible for sword-locked units
Hey editing advice. (At least my taste.) Next time you do a crazy speed up of rambling talking. While funny. I think it'd have gotten a tiny bit of a bonus if it was trailing off into white noise. Maybe a black stare of characters the same argument can be made for just slowly appearing on the edges of the video. That way people don't tune out because of the hyper speak. And you get a free joke about how ALOT of the units we get access too fall into a lot of similar places.
But that aside. Love the video. And great points all around
I think C tier is perfect, it sums up exactly what she is as a training project, the hero’s crest could go to anyone else but if you give it to her you have a second rutger that’s slightly different like a c it means they can be good but might not be worth it(to me at least)
This is the game where swordmasters get a billion crit she easily clears D tier
Epico video. Also Lancereaver epico :3
The opening bit was great 💯
I'm glad you liked it :-) I was really proud of it probably the most editing work I've done for a video but it paid off and I'm happy with the results
There is something worth note it about Fir and Rutger. Rutger can be LCK screwd and this can hurt his dodge tank capacity as a Swordmaster and he might even face some low % crits and for that he can fall off a little bit towards the endgame. Fir comes later but she have better growths in LCK and SPD what it means she will be a better dogde tank Swordmaster. You can fix/improve both of them with support bonus and stat bonus however while Rutger have shaky STR growth and shaky LCK growth, Fir only deals with shaky STR so in theory its easier fix/improve Fir's performance. The last thing about them its something no one talks about, and its about Swordmaster itself. in FE 6 Female Swordmaster have 25% STR growth while Male Swordmaster have 20% STR growth, and you might think "why does this matter", well... Rutger have 30% base STR growth while Fir have 25% base STR growth, therefore as Swordsmasters they will have THE EXACT SAME STR GROWTH. Rutger base STR growth 30% + (M) Swordmaster STR growth 20% = 50% final STR growth. Fir base STR growth 25% + (F) Swordmaster STR growth 25% = 50% final STR growth. Its undeniable, Rutger performs better but this is due to his availability over Fir. Fir can surpass Rutger towards the mid/endgame if you decide to train her. To conclude, in my opinion, Rutger deserves the S rating for his availability and contributions throughout the game, however, I strongly believe Fir is right behind him. She deserves the A rating as a great long term unit.
Is there a reason you have been deleting and reposting this comment daily all week?
@@DaniDoyle it's because english is not my native lauguage, so i read and read again to exercise my knowledge and to make sure i type everything correctly so people can understand me. sorry if its bothering you, its not my intention. if per chance this is a problem, then i'll stop commenting for the time being.
PLUS: I thought if I deleted the comment the TH-cam notification about my comment would disappear, so it didn't occur to me that you were constantly being notified about the same thing. sorry about that.
@@Cronos16842 that makes sense i was just confused
@@Cronos16842 just so you know its very well written so good job with your English! ☺️
Fir was amazing in my run because I gave her all my kills, stat boosters, Secret Shop doped, and any other bonus so surely that means she's S+ Tier because this doesn't apply to anyone else and I like being right. 😡😡😡
Idk why I watched this, I still haven't gotten around to playing FE6 so my only context is everything that was said in this video, but hey it was a good way to pass the time and may have convinced me to use Fir when I do get around to FE6
honestly i usually prioritize fir because my rutger usually ends up sooo bad. my fir consistently outranks him in strength even though theoretically that shouldn't be happening since rutger's strength growth is 5% higher than hers. i really value strength more than skill (when skill is already adequate, where you start to get more concerned about critical hits than if your unit can actually hit something) so rutger always ends up taking a backseat to fir in my late games. idk. the fe gods hate me. sometimes i wish rutger had like 35% growth for strength but it is what it is. it's weird bc i am acutely aware that rutger is THE best unit in the game along with milady. but my gameplays just always never reflect that. on the other hand when i play fe7, my eliwood always turns out amazing even though i know he's a subpar unit.
My main takeaway about Fir's use of the chapter 9 pirates as free exp is that they're pirates, so a sword unit is the easiest way to deal with them. If you like to play somewhat fast like me, you probably don't want to have an entire composition down south to help someone like Shin kill them all safely, while someone like Fir or Ogier (who I actually trained here once since Noah died on chapter 8 from a missclick) can farm them all with just a healer and maybe an extra unit while you kill all the other enemies. But I admit that if you don't care about turns anyone else can abuse them.
If you care about turns, Fir isn't killing them either though. The in question pirates spawn starting on turn 12.
@@DaniDoyle Yeah that's fair, I guess I might have just made it a tradition without even thinking about it.
One advantage of Fir is that she doesn’t get countered by enemy lancereavers
TRUE!
me on my horse
you mean i'm not supposed to eat the lancereaver?
Lancereaver my beloved.
My personal opinion of Fir for my runs of FE6 wasn't changed by the video, that being that she isn't worth it given the opportunity cost (other training projects mainly), but that doesn't mean she is a total meme kebab unit. And even if she was, it doesn't matter because you should use the units that you have fun with. I'm a Sophia enjoyer myself.
I also offer you a Lancereaver for this excellent video.
In my last playthru my rutger got stat fucked so hard he fell off by a mile and my fir became a god
intro was hilarious
lancereaver
You should also do a video about lilina, because i still don’t understand how she can be above D-tier and at the same tier as lugh
It's not a deep enough concept for it's own video tbh. I talk about it in both my tier list and this video. Anima magic is good, Liliana joins right before two breather maps, one of which is full of stationary enemies. High magic growth and enough speed to double a good chunk of enemies (Even though it's less than lugh) plus free Roy support.
@@DaniDoyle You say that Lilina has enough speed to double some enemies while in the video you say that Dieck constantly fails to meet doubling threesholds and sometimes gets doubled. Lilina has 13 speed at 20/1 needing promotion and a training arc while Dieck has 13 speed at level 15 before promotion and he gets Easy Exp early due to having some of the best bases in the earlygame. Checkmate Lilinaheads
@@xiulanplateau8882 oh, for sure she's on the same speed tier as Dieck, and it's a problem if she's front lining, but her overall bulk is also a problem if shes Frontlining. She'll double low res enemies like armors and wyverns, which is the important thing, and for the anime she's not doubling she can just attack without being countered. The high magic means that I typically find she's doing around the same damage as Lugh.
Lilina S tier because of her sprite colors.
I tend to use her with her dad for a quick support with him for the fir force
Interesting vid! Will consider training Fir next time around since I've wanted to play with Noah. lancereaver/reverse triangle could be good option for them
Personally, I end up using Fir a LOT on my runs. I don't like Rutger, and I absolutely HATE the Jagen archetype so I usually end up with a lot of training projects, and Fir is one of the more consistent units out of all of them. Plus I find her low strength can be backed up by her fire affinity and some early support grinding with Noah (because yes)
Does my refusal do use Marcus and my tendency to avoid rutger make my life unnecessarily hard? Yeah, but who needs a cav when Lugh gets +6 on magic before promotion? Besides, Alan is right there.
Let's be honest. Lot deserves the first hero crest.
I used to use fir cuz I tend to forget Rutger and kill him
Fir is fir
Idk never played fe6 but feels like i could just use rutger for any particularly dodgy enemies and horses are good
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Sue (and to a lancereaver extent, Shin) if you have more to say beyond your tier list. Bow knights are such unique units - I always try to use one
I actually have an entire video on sue I made a few moths ago!
@DaniDoyle Cool! I will check it out, thanks for the reply!
You should talk about reverse weapon triangle like lance raver.
Lance Reaver? I don't even know 'er!
Yeah sure, I usually don't have deep enough thoughts to comment so this is an easy way to boost.
Lancereaper
I like fir because she's pretty
I mean, rutger is also pretty, but i prefer women so she's prettier
But Lancereaver Fir can reliably 1RKO Zephiel!! Don't fact-check this, I'm begging you
I fact checked and turns out it's actually true??? And this is how you unlock the secret ending where kaga confirms the fe4 remake is coming?
@@DaniDoyle Copium is my favorite stat-booster
She inherited her mother's... everything.
Verdict: Rutger exists.
She's cute but idk I just use Rutger. I think I used her once though at least.
I prefer on of the axebros in Echidna route over Fir but she's perfectly fine as a unit. She had a gamer weapon type and pretty alright stats, I dont think pitting units against each other when discussing units so to me she's a pretty solid unit.
Rutger is so bonkers nutty that i think people can tend to overshadow other hero crest options.
Also NM Fir is so awful, like ungodly terrible her bad strength and defense growth makes itself apparent with her awful bases
I pooped my pants
Hero Crest ladder, imo:
Rutger > Dieck > Fir > Gonzalez > Garbage
Gonzalez just has too many issues to be better than her imo. Anyways, on your original tier list, I defended Fir, but I do think C tier is probably where she belongs. She’s good if you train her and can nab that second early Hero Crest, but you can skip her pretty painlessly.
[Lancereaver]
Lancereaver
Franceleaver
First of all, it's 2024 and I cannot fathom how Rutger is still being questioned as one of the best units in the game. Now, Dani as usually I agree with you on most points, BUT Rutger by ch9 is the de facto best unit you have. I'm sorry but Marcus has already fallen, Shanna needs much babying and yeah she's a flyer in theory, but there are too many bow enemies so she must move like an armor knight to be safe. Later, he's eclipsed by Melady and Perceval because of their bulk, and tied offensively only by Sin. Tate and the sages you mentioned aren't even close in HM. No as for Fir I totally agree. I'm sorry about the long comment, but I feel FE 6 is kind of my specialty having finished the game 7 times in HM and had countless unfinished iron man runs, sooo I get a bit triggered xD
There are a total of 6 archers in chapter 9, and it's very easy for shanna to avoid them. Promoted Allance, Promoted Shanna Marcus/Zealot, and Shin will all have better performance than Rutger IMO, because despite his speed lead, they are fast enough to double the pletora axe units. Rutgers still very good at this point, but his flaws are starting to show, and its only downhill from there. I'm not saying Rutgers bad (I had him jn 2nd or 3rd in my tier list), just that you're not desperate for a second one.
@@DaniDoyle You certainly don't need a second one. Shanna avoiding them means she doesn't fight though. I totally forgot about Zealot 😅. Shin can kill one enemy per turn and I doubt a promoted Cav can perform better. I mean if we specifically talk about the axe users in western isles maybe. However, after that, Rutger's performance actually increases compared to your army. Allance either won't even double or won't ORKO. On average the units you mentioned will struggle to do damage and Shanna will struggle with her bulk on top of that. Sin again is amazing but he kills only one unit before promotion and feeding him kills is a big investment turnwise. I think though our general view is similar. I'm just nit-picking here. Reaching the end game Rutger certainly does fall off but his contribution is immense before that.
A thing I found is that sharing a weapon with the lord is always a bad idea. The way to overcome that issue is to make other units handle significant objectives. Combat of course, and the utility skills as a bonus of improved gaming mechanics. Heros and Swordmasters were one in the same before, just timing of strength or speed in certain chapters of a playthrough. Now HP and Skills is the introduced factor. In this case, I'd say Fir has more dynamic supports than Rutger. It's for someone who wants more characterization of their units.
Is Fir an Est? (Dani try not to go insane challenge Difficulty: Impossible)
Actually she's her own archetype, the fir archetype (female myrm who joins after a male one with d swords even though the man had c. Examples include marissa)
@@DaniDoyle I see Fir as a replacement for Rutger if he (somehow, as unlikely as it is) dies. Just like how this game is full of a bunch of units meant to replace others in case the first one dies, ie Noah and Trent for Alen and Lance, Lilina for Lugh, Ojay for Dieck. Fir is the unit you can train if you really need a reliable sword user like Rutger but you lost him. I just think that she comes a little too late to fill that role so that intent by her design is likely overlooked by the community as Rutger stops being leagues ahead when she joins and she's never going to reach where your Rutger was before his death and have his impact by the time she gets there. Because that time has passed. So since she can't do that, no one points that out. But that's likely what was intended. That, or she's the Marissa archetype.
@@yaboiskittlez7943 wait so shes tue Cesar archetype?
I just like to use fir because i think she's cute
True real and valid tbqh
@@DaniDoyle like I always say reject meta use you're favorites heck littlrly in my channel description I literally let people know there favorite fire emblem units can be good and to not let anyone convince them otherwise
Geese is trash but that doesn't mean I'm not sad about it ;-;
LANCEREAVER RAHHHH!!!!!💯🫵😤
It's okay I forgive her for being incredibly mediocre because Bartre's her dad so she gets extra cool points, case closed
Off topic but axes are better than lancereavers... I can't believe the axe bros hate smh /j
lance reaver? i hardly know 'er!
Cord Fire Emblem
Im a roy hater from day one so i wish he were lower on that tier list but i get it. If he werent forced deployed in every chapter i think hed be bad filler, but as is hes probably a bit better than everyone below him. He just loses 1 mil points with me bcuz its so much easier to not use roy than to use him. Like ike isnt amazing, but its more tedious to avoid using him. Roy? Hey marcus! Pick that sucker up and beat the game with him 1/1. Fe7 you could kinda argue is like this, and erica in fe8, but roy is so so easy to avoid using the whole time and training and using him sucks. I think arena abusing him to 20 in chapter 5 in normal mode and still having him fall off well before his promotion really cemented it for me
I like fir though. The gold medalist for replacement units imo. Sometimes i just use her and rutger, bcuz why not see 4 cool crit animations per turn? Lol
Actually i just love fe6 and fe6 replacement units.
at least lancereavers fix Fir's lance issues :( yeah she's C tier for sure
Lance River 😂
She’s not S tier or anything but you could do a lot worse than Bad Rutger.
Marcus is the best unit in FE6? Lance and Alan have higher stats than him by the end of the forst chapter...
Rutger for me was so useless, even lromoted, i used Fir, and she was better than a level 17 rutger promoted.
I’ve never used her long term but she’s always struck me as like, the definition of mid
Surely its pronounced like the word fir, not fear? I dont play heros or whatever so maybe im out of the loop
Its actually pronounced "Giuseppe"
Lol she's swordlocked (in fe6) yeah swordlocked (in fe6) bad
Fir is B tier and maybe A tier at best, she’s amazing!
Lol no, B tier maybe if we’re being really generous but A tier absolutely not
Debatable
Also @voltron77 i think your comment on the fe6 tier list video got shown in this one lol
@@Supreyo Yea, I am a certified fir defender, I even argued for 200 comments over her viability with another guy called guru cheeks, in the end, we agreed to disagree, but it’s still funny to look back at that.
@voltron77 Tbh everyone has their units that they love to defend, lugh is a character that I feel I rate higher than most
@@Supreyo Yeah, every time I want to give him a chance, he never snowballs and lilina ends up replacing him.
My hypothetical litmus test for Fir is this.
If Fir was a scruffy dude, would any discussion about Fir being good remain? If Fir was just Guy, would this discussion even exist?
It's a cruel world that this is such an important conversation topic on somewhat midling fire emblem units, and yet we live in it.
Just say you hate women, Jesus Christ.
Bro what is wrong with the first three minutes? It repeats like 8 times
whoosh
@@Theblaziken2000 it's called TH-cam Rewind, my close personal friend William Smith helped me set it up
@@DaniDoyle very funny... I hope your next video is something I can enjoy since most of the others have been bangers.
IDK, if you didn't like the intro, you can just skip it 🤷🏻♀️
Honestly fir isn't bad, Rutger is just overrated. if most of his contributions come before chapter 10 that's just sad (and you certainly don't need him for chapter 9).
While his most important contributions are the early game, He's still incredibly good / useful into the mid game and end game.
@@DracozombieFE in this context, rutger's early game contribution is about as much as dieck or alance. i do agree he is good. but the better you get at fe, the worse rutger gets imo.
Lancereaver