Responding to The Rise And Fall of Mars Hill Podcast: Demon Hunting and the Charismatic Movement!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- In this episode, Michael Rowntree, Michael Miller, and Joshua Lewis discuss the new podcast "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill". They specifically tackle one episode called "Demon Hunting" where the host seemed to overstate the charismatic abuse that took place at Mars Hill.
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Amen Josh...you preach that brother😄
Christianity Today should look at Sojourn Collective as well. Mike Cospers church. In what way is Sojourn different to Mars Hill?
Bro as you get older it’s very rare for behavior to change in a 180 degree, especially when he never apologized to those he damaged and admitted he was wrong. Until then he hasn’t changed.
First of all, preach👏🏾 that👏🏾, Josh!
Second, Driscoll was one of the first evangelical preachers I listened to. I wouldn’t say he was central to my conversion to Christianity but he taught me a lot when i found him on TH-cam a decade ago. Just this year, i rediscovered him on TH-cam, with no knowledge of what went down at Mars Hill. So the podcast has been very eye opening and saddening. I’m taking the whole thing as evidence that we’re all prone to error if we go without guardrails. If only Mark had people who could genuinely hold him accountable, he may have repented of his pride and apparent lies, adjusted his gospel delivery and not hurt as many people in ministry. I hope he’s doing better in Arizona now because he seems to be amassing yet another large following. It would be inexcusable for a repeat to happen.
On a happier note, I just want to say that you three are some of my favorite internet brothers in the faith right now. I’ve been following the channel for a while and i’ve gone back to sooo many of your past videos. You’ve taught me so much about the pursuit of right doctrine and right practice. You are fantastic and I pray that the Lord blesses you and expands his ministry through you. I would love for so many more to watch your content.
Also, currently reading Jack Deere’s Surprised by the Voice of God. I’ve read a lot of Sam Storms but so happy for this new find of a biblical knowledge and practice of charismatic ministry. Thanks for the introduction!
As a person from a black Pentecostal background this topic and your discussion really resonated with me. Thank you 🙏🏽
When you say you don’t know where Mark is now - well one thing we do know at the time of recording the podcasts he had not reached out in an attempt at reconciliation and restoring of relationships. I think that as a man of God, as a pastor that speaks volumes. Look at what Sutton Turner has done in repenting and reconciling with people he hurt - now that is what a man of God does!
Mark was my Pastor for a couple years after Mars Hill in Arizona. I know him personally and he knows me and my family. His children know mine, his wife knows mine and we’ve had many conversations in and out of church.
He is one of the kindest, most generous, patient, and loving pastors I’ve ever met in a decade and a half of being saved.
My experience is nothing like what the podcast portrays.
That’s exactly where he’s at nowadays.
He has a huge fathers heart and a deep love for God’s word.
So your personal experience negates the direct testimony of every other executive pastor at his Church along with the vast majority of the elders that served on staff there??
People like you are the reason that abusers can continue hurting people.
You can check the roys report and hear testimonials of former church associates of his church in Arizona. Unfortunately nothing has changed and no strong accountability.
tell that to the family he ran out of that church
maybe you guys should just interview mark about the podcast
Mark Driscoll refuses interviews from just about anyone.
That would be awesome
Is there evidence that he has repented and that he is no longer engages in lying, narcissistic and sociopathic behavior?
I did think sometimes this episode of the Mars Hill podcast was sometimes more critical than necessary (though like you I appreciated its good points), but the narrator did say that some of the deliverance practices were more traditional and mainstream, and when he said "charismatic leader," I understood him as speaking more in the sense of leaders with natural charisma, not in terms of the charismatic movement. But I might have misinterpreted.
Dr. Keener! Thanks for the comment :)
We had such a great time with you at Asbury!! Those episodes in Mark are still being edited but will be out soon. Blessings 🙏🙏
@@michaelrowntree2005 It was a great time for me too! When I'm indexing new data I can listen to podcasts. Glad that the Mark videos will begin coming out soon,.I'm doing an intensive for an online school in January where we can use the videos that are out by then as class lectures ...
@@CraigKeenerPhD is it for Seminary Now? We have been talking to Jason Giles and he said he had met with you recently.
And… it’s an honor that you tune in to our show, not just when you’re on it :)
@@michaelrowntree2005 :-) But no, this one is for a largely African-American Pentecostal school that's close to my heart
As A retired trauma therapist I agree with you totally! When the Lord speaks to someone and the Holy Spirit moves them through the trauma, it is amazing what can happen in that moment. For some it can take a while and for others healing can come much more quickly. I love how you encouraged to rely on the Holy Spirit, and Oh by the way, the Holy Spirit brings truth and counsel against the lies surrounding trauma, so confronting the lies is very important in healing the trauma and any foothold the enemy has gained.
Side note- when it comes to Jesus speaking to the woman at the well, it wasn’t that he was exposing her sin, more that it was him empathizing with the amount of shame and rejection she had experienced due to being divorced and passed on from man to man… back then a woman couldn’t just go and divorce her husband.
Loved this!! This is such a rare, necessary, and special podcast. There's been a need for these conversations for such a long and I'm thankful you guys not only took on the task but continue to be faithful to this vision by executing with excellence with every drop. Your diligence and commitment shows! Lots of people are leaving the church--even worse, Christ, for a range of reasons. Many are losing sight of biblical Christianity because of too flexible, or too loose teachings unsupported by scripture. They're "deconstructing" and "reconstructing" in an echo chamber of least resistance. Glad to see you guys welcome everyone in, to safely explore what we say we believe.
Amen Josh on your closing comments. Absolutely love how you always speak the truth in love!
I know the podcast could be controversial, but I thought Sam Storms’ comment on Revelation 12:11, and how we as Christians truly overcome the enemy, was well worth the listen! I had never heard of him until your 2020 prophecies episode, so thank you for introducing him to me.
Thank you for pointing out the bias in the Podcast. I felt they also were soft on progressive Christianity and the emerging church movement and its leaders.
That being said, it correctly pointed out abuses in Mars Hill and the ministry which should be applauded.
I think that was the point of the podcast was to point out what went wrong in Mars Hill and the abuse while trying to shine a light on what went put right and how people benefited from the ministry. I am sure they could do a podcast on the progressive Christianity and the emerging Church and find examples of abuse within that type of ministry as well.
I too listened to the podcasts and I think that it was clear that Mark was/is dismissive of women and their personhood. The other thing about Driscoll is all his talk on being a man and yet when it was time to face Church discipline he ran away like a scared little boy!!
Glad you guys had a discussion on this.
Another great episode. Michael Miller’s story is one I resonate with. Thank you for sharing your story. His remark at the 25 minute mark was freeing to me.
Your point about not knowing where Mark Driscoll is "now" (becoming obvious somethings have not change), regardless Mark Driscoll left MH without being held accountable.
Please do a show on C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien. They are very important to Orthodox, Catholics and Protestants. Thanks for considering this idea.
I am moved by the heart of Jesus Christ that you guys displayed in this episode; as you so often do. That, again, is why I watch nearly 100% of what you publish here. (That which I don't watch is most often caused by my time constraints: I do have to sleep occasionally, especially as I am getting older (soon to be 69 yrs. old).)
Guys please have Mark on. This episode was bit of a "he said, she said."
Hey guys! I hope you guys are still looking over/responding to comments. Real quick question...at the beginning of the podcast, you made mention about an Alisa Childers interview that was supposed to come out last Monday. I don't see it anywhere. Did that get moved around? I am really looking forward to that episode.
I wish you would a response video to every single episode. That would be nice.
Have you reached out to Mark Driscoll to invite him to discuss what he’s learned from everything that happened? I think, I’m the interest of objectivity, you would want to give him a chance to talk to his experience.
I challenge you to have Mark Driscoll on the show., I think you should adress his current ministry which is great. He has a church in AZ as far as I can tell by sermons nothing distraught or offbase, but he has more structure there.
Like you said about the little boy who was casting himself in the fire ? I believe you said, it’s not that he or his parents committed great sins in which they all deserved to be disciplined but rather I look at the answer Jesus gave his disciples when they asked why the man was born blind in John 9:3 Jesus said “neither this man or his parents sinned but it happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him”. I always think of that verse when someone asks why do bad things happen because then and there the one asking the question can come to terms that good does exist. Which is God. God is good. Bad things happen so the works of God may be displayed.
That’s a good point. That could be a topic for an episode. I admit I struggle with this concept even after being a Christian for most of my life. I don’t doubt that God is real, and I know he is in the right being just and good. But I still struggle with concepts like Him allowing things to hurt people, sometimes for there entire lives, just to release them from it so he can be glorified. It’s sometimes a hard concept to wrestle with. It can often feel as if it can’t be wrestled with out loud without god cruel.
I wonder, how do we work through times when it feels like God is not nice or kind when you know that he is justified, but only based on principle alone?
If that makes any sense.
(Kind of off topic, you make a good point in original comment. Not trying to take away from that.
@@Grizzlygray468 Although God can and does glorify himself through miracles and healing, we live in a fallen world. Satan is the god of this world, and prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. We must be vigilant and prayerful, putting on the full armour of God.
God makes all things work together for good for believers, even heartaches and tragedies. He can take what satan has planned for evil, and make good come from it. Sometimes we don't see or understand it, and may never in this life; we just have to trust Him. He is good.
@@LEvans-RWS This may be far to transparent for a youtube comment section but here goes...
Thank you, I appreciate your comment and your desire to encourage. I mean no disrespect and i am not disagreeing with your point. However the very last sentence you wrote is the advice i most often receive when i bring up this struggle. “We may never know, you just have to trust Him.”
My struggle is, what do i do when that is the very thing i am struggling with?
I would love to see a discussion on this channel about coming back from burnout. I’m not at a crisis of faith, nor do i want to abandon Christianity. I still believe in the Lord Jesus. But I'm struggling IN the faith. Im struggling with burn out, lack of hope and knowing how to navigate those emotions and seasons of life. When i express this i am often told to “just have faith.” Or “you just have to trust Him.” And while i understand the heart behind it, it often feels like i am a blind man and my brothers and sisters in Christ are telling me to “just see”
What do i do when the thing that i need, is the thing I'm struggling with?
There is a song by the band Ghost Ship, in it are the lyrics “The blind won’t gain their sight by opening their eyes.” Its a song about the blind man who calls out to Jesus saying “son of David have mercy on me.”
This is the crux of the issue I'm getting at. Again no disrespect. I absolutely am not trying to make you feel bad or accuse you of anything. I really do appreciate your heart to encourage. And I do not doubt the intentions or the good heart behind what brothers and sisters say in the spirit of trying to help. This is not a personal rebuttal just a clarification of what i am struggling with. Thank you.
This podcast loses any dime you grace. I’ve never attended or followed Mars Hill, but this is clearly a ‘take down’ series and is guilty of almost everything that they accuse Mark Driscoll. (Clicks, advertising, audience seeking). In the demon podcast Christianity Today is at merely at odds with Mark’s theologically. Has nothing to do with the fall.
I’d love CT to do a take down of Cosper himself!
Christianity Today should be renamed American Christianity Today or more accurately ‘Wokanity’
When I went deep into the occult I actually saw fairies. They do exist. But they are by no means holy
Hey Michael Roundtree , what about the detailed personification of Jerusalem in the book of Jeremiah❔ The book of Jeremiah is very very detailed, concerning Jerusalem’s personification.
It’s not about believing someone when they say they’re doing something or not. It’s knowing the holy spirit enough to hear him confirm which one is telling truth which one is lying. Holy Spirit constantly leads and confirms things in me and tells me when people are lying
We do have a way to know if a charismatic move is true. The Bible
you should invite him on
Thank you so very much 😊🙏.
Concerning the prophetic word on the "Por no graphic vision", God, through Ezekiel, had really harsh, really graphic terminology to condemn the idolatry of Israel and Judah. It's not unheard of...
Maybe I misunderstood this, but it seems like Mr. Rowntree was saying that deliverance should only be done by pastors? You mentioned there could be lay people trying to do deliverance who weren't very experienced. I agree if there's not much experience you need to be careful but I've seen successful deliverance done by lay people.
I must not have been clear. When I kept saying “you have to pastor this,” I meant lay ppl can pastor it too. When I said something abt lay ppl diving into deep secrets of hearts, I was merely trying to acknowledge that I know where the accusation is coming from.
With that said, we train lay ppl all the time at my church to cast out demons. Thanks for the question!
Deliverance is done by Jesus. 🤷🏼♀️
@@michaelrowntree2005 Thank you so much for the clarification. I'm in 100 percent agreement.
Also a preacher once said a mans faith can be followed who has powerful faith and bad doctrine but not his bad doctrine.
And no, God does not tempt us to sin. Therefore, it is a no-brainer that he would not show pornographic images to Mark.
My understanding, which may be wrong, is that he hasn’t repented of this time at Mars hill?
The regulative principle of charismatic manifestation is this.. the gospel, as aligning with the life, and word of Christ, and as aligning with the sure word of God that elaborates the gospel throughout history.
When that which is not the gospel is manifesting, we submit to the word of God.. most often this can be seen clearly with manifestation that does not align with the character of Christ that we call the fruit of the spirit; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control.
Demons are opportunistic. They take advantage of weakness, even trauma inflicted by others.
Does anyone know how Dustin Kensrue is doing after all this stuff?
The context for talking to demon was a very common thing where some people actually start asking the demons for all kinds of secrets instead of just getting the name and legal right of entrance… and yes in a spirit led moment you can get something God wants you to get, and they have to tell the truth. But otherwise we don’t have to grill them for knowledge and that’s what I think Driscoll meant. And I’m not saying I agree with him or anything
The Problem is, that he was shaming people, submission is not to be forced, he is not someone you should open up to when you are vulnerable
Is there a specific “rise and fall” podcast you are referring to? I’ve seen a few on TH-cam.
Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. From Christianity Today. Hosted by Mike Cosper
45:21 ive gotten a lot of physical healing. And from most of my healing being in a time of solitude w God a lot of it is from sin. But, id still agree its not wise to tell someone their suffering is from sin. From what i learned, the physical body isn't meant to hold anything but who they are in Christ.
I've been a believer for 64 years and have had it with all the BS and infighting amount believers. So I have left Western Institutional Christianity. I want nothing to do with all the church leaders. GOOD BYE. Oh, I do have a BA & MA from a Bible college and seminary. Also was a professor and Dean of a Bible' College and seminary.
The therapist is speaking of strongholds. Watch Derek Prince videos on deliverence.
17:34- My husband and I (who believe in the gifts of the Spirit) took the fairy and demon correlation like this: there were 2 people behind the creation of the fairies and 1 man (Mark) behind the demon hunting at Mars Hill. It was easy for the girls to create something that was not real and feed the lie for years. Driscoll’s charisma and authoritarian control led people to “have to” believe anything and everything he said.
Did those things really happen in his office? Maybe. Maybe not. No one really knows, but just like the fairies he could press people into believing it because of the culture he had created.
We did not take it as CT speaking against the Charismatic gifts, but speaking against the lack of accountability in the midst of using the gifts. The way Driscoll used the gifts was another piece to his deception and abuse. It was also a layer to his brand.
Also... go do a quick search and you’ll find recent scandals and people coming out of the Trinity woodworks to confirm that Driscoll has not changed.
56:21 ive seen "pornographic" images in visions, but its just as you said under the guise of grace. Sure, the vision was graphic in my experience but it was very pg and i did not see grave details.
Correction, sorry. Your exegesis is good. I say this as a former Professor and Dean of a Bible College and seminary.
The adjective "pornographic" is not so much about the content of the vision, but about the intent and the effect of the vision. If the intent and effect was not to arouse Mark, such that Mark was not "indulging" in the content, then the vision was only revelatory, not pornographic, regardless of the actual content of the vision.
Great content, fellas!
I've already commented on how much I enjoyed this episode. But, somewhat appropriate to this episode, I felt led to ask, "When will you guys address the 500 pound gorilla in room?" This is the 500 pound gorilla that will soon, no doubt, be confronting the bride."
What is the 500lb gorilla?
@@nathanpriddis412 What is a 500 pound gorilla? Is a gorilla anything other than a beast?
@@DocLarsen44 A beast indeed. Which one?
Moses foretold an unspecified number of beast would be sent among the people Lev. 26:22.
Depending on how you count them, Daniel saw 4 or 3+1. John saw 1.
Come out unclean spirit in the name of Jesus!!! Think that's all Jesus or any Apostle did 🙏
Preach it, Josh! 👏
46:47 Michael Miller is so right concerning us seeking to follow (to a degree) the pattern of Jesus' meeting with the woman at the well. Sin is sometimes revealed by God but NOT to condemn a person and comes with a deep sense of care and concern. We should be the same, lest we tread all over a person with unwarranted belligerence as we minister deliverance. We follow a God of restoration and care. Like Amy Shoemaker in the comments, I too was delivered in a room with no other person present at the time of my conversion from dark to light. There have been other times as a believer that God has revealed my sin to others and it was right for them to speak the details to me - it was actually an encouragement because I had stopped caring that God could see it and the fact that He showed it to others, reminded me that God wanted me to be free.
Does anyone have any thoughts:
Who are the most helpful, evangelical, gospel-centred people with practical teaching on deliverance? Any good books or teaching series? Thanks!
Derek Prince
I am reading Sam Storms new book "Understanding Spiritual Warfare:A Comprehensive Guide"
Sam Storms is solid and one of the most Gospel centered Charismatic that I know of. His pod cast called Exploring Word And Spirit has been a blessing in my life.
I think it is amazing if God resorted Mark and his family and brought him to true godly sorrow and repentance, but he should never be allowed in the position of a pastor again for the sake of the children of God that have been abused by him. As someone who was physically and spiritually abused by a supposed “minister” of the gospel, it is nearly impossible to recover from the spiritual abuse. Especially if that person is allowed back into ministry. Think, if Mark had truly repented by the power of the Holy Spirit, God would have shown him the damage done to the faith of Gods little ones and the LAST position he would be seeking is one that would again wreck the faith of these people. Biblically, Mark Driscoll has disqualifies himself. These men are suppose to be of good reputation outside the church.. much less inside the church! It’s blaspheming the gospel to keep letting these abuser back into leadership. Mark Driscoll is held to a much higher level of judgement because of his leadership position. That’s why Paul’s says not many should desire this role. In Corinthians, Paul’s himself had a healthy fear of disqualifying himself. If Paul the apostle and writer of a majority of the New Testament can be disqualified based off of his actions then Mark is no different. Please stop allowing these men back into leadership. It is faith wrecking to the victims.
Mark is not a different guy.
Great Point about lies. They are actually demon food. Sometimes a good prayer is Lord bring ______ truth for ungodly lies. Watch how the Spirit will help with lies. Lies, sin, or trauma = lies. Lies are so foundational for soul injury.
There is the narrow road with few on it that believes by faith that truth is found in the Bible alone and in its entirety. And there is the wide road with many on it that believe the Bible is one source but there are also freshly given divine knowledge in the form of dreams, visions, tongues, angel visitations, demons, miracles, utterances, impressions, and mystical apparitions from the beyond. Two roads with two kingdoms with two different destinations.
The narrow road is limited to Scriptural proofs as its bedrock of divine knowledge, the Bible being sufficient for the Christian. If the narrow road is correct, which I believe it is, then the Charismatic Movement does not, by definition, teach as they say, "whole word of God," but rather the word of God plus an aberration not from God. This is a grievous error, combining God's voice with additional divine sources that are unauthorized and forbidden by God. These sources cannot be from God for He has given the Bible as our sole authority. Thus, all the manifestations and wonders that people see and believe must be from Satan or else the wickedness of men's minds, but they cannot be from God. Even so, those on the wide road invariably must erroneously attribute this additional knowledge sources to the Holy Spirit, which is the end result of walking by sight and not by faith.
These two authorities: The Bible alone or the Bible plus additional divine information are utterly incompatible. They are at odds with each other and as such result in two entirely different Gospels. Two different divine foundations must necessarily yield the worship of different Christs, one of which must be false. The wide and narrow roads hold different doctrines rooted in different sources and produce different exegetical understandings built on different authorities. The way that is informed by extra-biblical sources will ultimately result in a person who claims a different Christ, a different God and hold a different salvation with a different understanding of sanctification. But there are not different Christians in Christ, there is only One Body. So, the resulting two incompatible worldviews cannot be mixed together any more than the Spirit of Christ can be intertwined with the spirit of Satan.
The question about whether God might have given Driscoll a pornographic vision from heaven of sexual perversion or not, reveals how far from biblical truth the wide road travels by accepting a wider authority than the Bible alone and in its entirety. Using the Bible as the authority the Christian can definitively say that Driscoll did not receive a vision from God, nor did anyone else. This is because God illuminates the Scriptures as the sole source of His authority, "so that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2Ti 3:17). God does not use tongues, dreams, visions, or miracles to inform His people. His people know His voice because it is heard through the Scriptures. His true sheep will not follow the voice of demons.
But if we walk by sight, by manifestations, then looking at the claims made by the wide road adherents, the Holy Spirit is indeed working in marvelous ways in distributing spiritual gifts amongst His people with dreams, tongues, healings, and visions a regular occurrence in His church. That is the assessment when you walk by sight and measure with a corrupt yardstick. When you are walking by faith, the Bible gives many warnings that in the last days Satan will be loosed and will go forth to deceive those who claim the name of Christ. He uses false teachers and false prophets to create a false christ, who is made to speak on behalf of God ideas that God has not spoken or commanded, which is actually Satan ruling in the churches where he should not be.
The wide road leads people astray from the Bible (Mar 13:22). You cannot add poison to the pure word of God and not have dire consequence for your folly. Those who possess spiritual eyes to see understand that these false teachers are called lawless because they seek divine truth outside the Bible, which is the law of God. Though the wide road adherents believe wholly that these miraculous signs and wonders are indeed from God and praise Him for it, they do not know that they are deceived by Satan's lie, that they are engaging in a "deception of unrighteousness in the ones perishing," showing forth their rebellion toward God "because they did not receive the love of the truth" (2Th 2:10). You cannot supplement the word of God with "fresh words" or "visions from God" and not be deceived. For that is the nature of this end times deception allowed by God to test the faithfulness of His church. You are deceived because you measure unrighteously rather than by the word of God alone, which would have informed you, if you were able to trust God and hear His voice and obey, that this is the working of Satan. You have been tested and failed the test, falling headlong into the pit.
God sums up the matter at the end of His word, in the last paragraphs of the Bible, God sternly warns don't subtract from His word and don't seek additional sources of divine truth, "if anyone adds to these things, God will add upon him the plagues having been written in this Book" (Rev 22:18). These plagues are judgments by God against the unrighteous for their lawless deeds. Remember ancient Israel, how they held to Yahweh on the one hand yet multiplied other gods as additional sources of divine truth. That was a rebellion against Yahweh. Recall how God warned them to repent but they would not. They held fast to the idols they could see and the prophets who told them all is well, "peace and safety." They were destroyed in judgment for ignoring the word of God in favor of gods made of iron, wood, and stone. They harkened to their false prophets who told them Yahweh was speaking through idols and not to worry, God approved of them, and all is well. But it wasn't.
They were fools. They were not able to hear the voice of God. They were not walking by faith. Rather they believed in the manifestations of their idols that they see, touch, and handle. They listened to the words of the prophets of Baal because they testified to the validity of these false gods. This made them confident that they were under God's blessing, despite the opposite warning from God that they would be destroyed if they didn't repent. So, God overthrew them and their apostate kingdom of idolators. God killed them and carried those that remained into captivity (for spiritual captives they were to Satan). In Israel's "end times" they became followers of demons and Satan yet believed with a reverent faith that these lying wonders proved they were righteous before God and God approved of them. In our current end of age "end times" with Satan loosed to deceive, how much more will God judge those today who listen to lying spirits of demons and call it the word of God? Will not God likewise punish them, "for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it" (Mat 7:13).
Listen if you have been given (by God) ears to hear. God has told you beforehand what would transpire. You have been given ample warning. There is no one to blame but yourself if you ignore Him and join in the similitude of spiritual lawlessness in likeness to ancient Israel, and receive God's wrath and its similar end result, eternal destruction.
Mat 24:24-25 "For there will arise false christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones. "Behold, I have told you beforehand."
My friend moved to AZ and goes to his church. She just tells me "Yeah, he's controversial." Mmkay.
We all have ways we could have taught better or used a better analogy. Mark is just a man, who yes made some mistakes, but we serve a God who reigns on the just and unjust. I have heard the good and the bad and love my brother Driscoll and love he's addressing the hard topics. Much like my pastor Ryan Visconti at Generation Church in Mesa Az. Speak the truth in love❤️
I'm sure you guys ever read Ezekiel 23 that isn't on the verge of pornographic speech I don't know what is
I absolutely believe God gives graphic visions. I had one as a dream of my ex-husband with another woman with a particular dress on performing fellatio on my husband in the back of a car. When I told him about it he somewhat freaked out but told me it was nothing.
We then wnt to church where the daughter of the deacon mentioned wearing the same exact dress from my dream the next time she sees him.
Those dreams aren’t for show. Their to prove the power and hand of God in ones life. My ex-husband knew he couldn’t keep doing what he was doing.
So, how do you confirm that dream without making a false accusation? How do you know you didn't see her in that dress on a previous occasion and that your dream about her and your husband was not just an expression of jealousy?
It's a real question. The Bible speaks of visions, but those visions must be confirmed by real life. How do you confirm yours?
There can be a degree and kind of healing in the more natural use of gifts, but a different degree and kind of deliverance in the power and leading of the Holy Spirit. When someone tries to go into the past of another person using a natural gift, or even using a spiritual gift in a natural sort of way, and expects it to happen rapidly, this is not realistic or healthy. But when the power and leading of the Holy Spirit is there to deliver, there is no way to limit Him in how long it needs to take Him in order to deliver.
That said, I can't imagine a single demon-possessed person in the Bible with whom someone could hold a conversation asking about their past, and such. When Jesus asked how long it had gone on, he asked the father of the boy, not the boy himself.
I'm surprised if you haven't researched actual statements from prior leadership. I have attached below, under separate comment, a prayerful and l statement of one such man.
You guys are forgetting some of the extremely graphic sexual language Ezekiel uses in his prophecies.
Oh Lord.
I just skimmed the SW link I posted. It's been years since I saw this stuff. That is strait outa Camp Hootnanny.
I love the part where the cussing pastor who talks about pussy, commands the demon to not use profanity.
It could be argued that God created the imagery within the song of Solomon creating imagery in your mind that is pornographic.
That is how the enemy works. Taking Gods creation and twisting it. You completely leave out the context of Gods intention for sex. Weak comment and baseless argument without context.
@@duaneelsbree3460 you provide no argument and that’s less than weak. But of course forced slavery in the Canaanite conquest narrative involves rape of virgins so whatever you think of Gods intention for sex be sure to include forced sex, rape. And don’t forget money and property rights overrule the covenant relationship and the one flesh between a husband and a wife Exodus 21. And yes, I know you’ll say it again, the devil.
Not to mention you also avoid the obvious. The Bible is Gods word. All of scripture is God breathed. The Song of Solomon is inspired/God breathed. The Song of Solomon contains pornographic imagery. Therefore God created pornography. 😆
Be sure to deal with God telling Isaiah to walk among the people for three years completely nude too.
Having a tainted commentator that rebutts what you say in trying bring shade to Mark brings less credibility to this podcast.. and your hammer and nail comment question was spot on and the deceptive body language in the answer made me turning it off at 27 minutes.
Mark Driscoll has a lot to answer for. He will stand before Jesus and give an account. I truly fear for him. Just right him off.
Naaman didn’t like what he heard either, and she’s obviously going up for prayer for a need wherein she is unable to continue in God’s word wherein she is walking in complete freedom.
That she requires prayer also speaks to her struggling with the issue. Why? Well, if she’s struggling, that isn’t from a place of truth. So what is likely the case is that she believed she could not be cleansed by God from these sins or that she could never change and be free of guilt, which is a lie.
Just taking into consideration her use of terms surrounding being unclean. Also, that is not to say this minister, who I do not know much of, didn't miss it in his ministry. And sorry I couldn't watch every but great shows!
Shocking. Bias is everywhere. The remnants radio is also really bias in its discussions on certain topics especially egalitarianism.
Somebody pooted around the 10 minutes in. Lol 😂. It's funny please forgive me 🙏
Jesus doesn't need 2 years to heal trauma
The whole couple therapy story is a story just another made up scene for him to embellish on imo .
It’s funny 🤔 I like the intro. Thought this was something I could get into and then in the first two minutes and 30 seconds you tell me what tribe you’re in! Excluding people like Richard Rohr who’s BTW been a huge Christian voice in the recovery community for years. You know those pesky addicts that most pop christians don’t want to have anything to do with unless they’re in the basement. Yeah you’ll show videos by Richard Rohr, Rob Bell and William Paul Young in the basement but you don’t want the rest of the church to know it’s heresy? 🤦🏻
Anyhow thanks for saving me the time for letting me know what tribe you belong to in the first 2 1/2 minutes So I didn’t have to listen to the, painful diatribe you were going to have about my former church. 😨
This whole entire podcast and you guys covering it, is disgusting and shameful to the church. Bringing up a Bible teaching, pastors old sins for the sake of trying to “teach a lesson” ?? Or to “learn from it”? Isn’t where’s its at. Pastor Mark Driscoll, at the time of the “fall”, repented publicly to his church and since then, has discussed his failure of pastoring Mars Hill. This is gossip and condemnation being covered as “HERES WHAT WE CAN LEARN” give me a break. If anyone needs guidance, then turn to Jesus. Open up your bibles.
That is not correct. He resigned and left town to avoid accountability. All this was publicly known years ago. He claimed he acted on God's direction. You can find these statements online.
@@nathanpriddis412 if you want to argue with yourself, feel freely to do so. I had attended Mars Hill during the controversy.
Where's a link? Why do all of the former elders say he did not repent?
Demons take their orders from their creator Boss Yahweh,
the man made Hebrew god with the three personalities.
How enlightening.