VERY GOOD ! I presently own two Ducaties. A 2017 Panigale 1299s and a 2021 Street Fighter Dark Stealth edition. I wanted the last of the BIG twin, purchased a leftover 1299 December 2018 at a $5,000 discount, BEST decision I ever made.30,000 trouble free miles since new.I fell in love with the 2020 S.F. after a test ride and got the First dark stealth bike in My area. TWO entirely different bikes, each unique in there own way. The S.F. is a far more forgiving bike then the 1299. As you stated, the 1299 lets me know,, RESPECT ME or I will kill you! Keeps me on my toes, a handful too launch, NO launch control like the Street Fighter. IF you scare easily,, you will NEVER use the full potential of this bike. I LOVE IT! 198 rear wheel horse on the Dino 398 lbs. to my knowledge, the lightest super bike. My best time in the 1/4 mile 9.80 with a good launch. The S.F. 207 horse @ the rear wheel, 9.54 1/4 mile, NOT using launch control. 415 lbs. Again so forgiving, controllable wheelies and less vibration then the 1299.15,000 in 2 years. These bikes are my everyday transportation. Both are occasional track day bikes as well. constantly challenged on the street, never beaten. 2023 Panigale R next. I am 175 lbs and soon to be 74 !! Be safe out the guys
I own a 2015 1299s and I agree with you regarding the need to show it proper respect . If you do not you will be taking pavement samples very quickly . With that being said I love the thing .
The V4's are here to stay, no doubt, but I don''t see them giving up on the V2 engines in any hurry. Monsters, SS, Multistradas, Iwoud say there would always be a place for the V2 engine in the Ducati lineup.😎
We certainly miss big bore v twin. But latest but smaller displacement line up like monster and scrambler still exciting. Especially the scrambler, I love that air cooled engine. Smell different like, literally smell like a real machine
Bought my 1200 monster new, and i still love the L twin torque today. Not the best numbers bike but for commuting and weekend shenanigans. It's perfect for me.
Years ago l owned a 900 SS bevel drive bike...it sounded great with its slow rhythmic thudding exhaust.. okay it was a bit mechanical noisy but once on the move it showed exactly what it was ...a thoroughbred. The big V- twin motor had same profile as a single. l always thought the 916 a masterpiece of design .... wish l still owned my 900SS though.
L-Twin Single Swing Arm Under Tail Exhaust = my 1198s. There is no other DUCATI model for me. The 848/1098/1198 series is the pinnacle of Ducati. The Panigale was the end. A bike that tried just a little too hard.
I'm a old high milage rider put half a million miles on old air cooled BMWs and 80k miles on a 900ss sl. Enjoyed every single mile on that super sport.
Really wish it wasn't true but the bigger the bore the thinner the combustion chamber and you can't make strokes but so short in order to keep increasing horsepower Harley Davidson even has had two v-force designed in the last few years but will not produce but the thing is we're going to have to go to the V4 you can't just keep making bigger pistons and made emissions levels
Good analysis.. I can understand this as I ride TWIN CYLINDER & IN LINE 4. So performance, Top speed and cornering is really different. Just sharing my little experience and I am not a expert.
The Desmosedici Stradale engine wasn't an entirely new, ground-up design. It is a variant based off the engine used in the MotoGP bike. Just like the Grand Tourismo engine in the Multistrada V4 and now Diavel V4 are further iterations after the Stradale. Ducati has been making V4 engines since 2003.
You're right.. I used "entirely new" as a metaphor in the sense that we've never seen it on a Ducati road bike before (except for the limited run Desmosedici RR).
@@RevvingHeart even that usage is still admittedly inaccurate. The more accurate choice would be to say that with the Panigale V4 they finally released a standard production V4 power plant.
not to mention the traditional, flatplane inline 4 (anything other than 2009 Yamaha YZF-R1, which is a Crossplane engine based from YZR-M1) firing order is so even that it's actually undesirable for motorcycle racing with more than 200 horses, i think it's something called "Recovery Gap" idk.
The Inline Fours went to Cross-plane crank , Big Bang configuration to solve the Traction issues . A 4 cylinder , with power pulses like a V-Twin . Ducati cried FOUL and lobbied for the Capacity concession . And got it .
I don't think that a v2 engine is more balanced than a inline 4, yes both are balanced for primary vibrations, but the first is an uneven fire engine 270° - 450° while inline 4 is even firing 180° - 180° - 180° -180°
You have it completely backwards. L twins still have secondary imbalances, like inline 4 engines. Their firing interval is also significantly less even, which is the real reason L twin engines are less prone to highside crashes. The spikes in torque delivered upon a cylinder firing are less even, giving the tires longer to recover grip between spikes in torque. This is called the big bang effect, and is also why Yamaha R1s have crossplane I4 engines.
If you think about how rare the 1299 is on the road it being a "dirtier" motor, on the grand scale makes no environmental impact. Fact is the V-twin could not compete with the inline 4 any longer. The V-twin was just maxed out. Honda, Aprilia all gave up the V-twin in WSBK for a reason. Ducati was just a bit more stubborn to make it happen.
Riding high performance V4 bikes since mid 90s (VMaxes 1200 and 1700) I heard so many Ducatisti hailing the outdated V2 concept. Now, they react as if Ducati has invented kryptonite. V4 rules. And even if the VMax is heavy and the old one was not behaving very well on modern standard, the engines (1200 and 1700 V4) were absolute masterpieces. The Honda V4 engines as well btw. So, Ducati is just 40 years back in this development. But still, as always from that side, big comments...
Does 540° and 270° firing intervals mean anything to you? That was the reason tractability was better on 90° V-twins, now even applied on inline 2's and 4's by means of crossplane crank shafts.
These new parallel twins with uneven (270 degree) firing order only have it to make the engine sound more like a V-twin (less buzzy, a bit rougher and so more characterful). The manufacturers' claim that the 270 crank aids traction is far-fetched. They want to cut costs with a single cylinder block, but won't admit that's their main reason for dropping the V-twin, which is my (long) experience is the best configuation for a bike engine.
Everything I’ve read over the years, agrees: supposedly, by maximizing the timing gap between power-pulses, the driven tire has more time to recover grip, before the next pulse distorts the tire’s carcass. This seems much more plausible (to me) than abrupt torque-increase when opening the throttle! We’ve had sophisticated launch control for years (they had to ban it, in drag racing), which is the same technology as what’s needed, here…
This agrees with everything I’ve read over the years, about traction at the limit: by putting both power pulses in the same crank-rotation, you create the largest timing-gap between power-delivery ‘clusters’, which allows the tire’s carcass the most time to ‘un-distort’ between torque pulses. This certainly ma by kes more sense to me, than abrupt crank-acceleration! We’ve had launch-control for years, which is the same basic technology…
On the Suzuki square 4 two strokes, (Barry Sheen era) they could change the firing order by just assembling the engine differently, they found out (why they tried such a mad idea is beyond me) that the "big bang" engine, using two cylinders firing at the same time got better traction, it's seems counter intuitive, but if it works, it works.
I still remember like it was yesterday when I was a little boy the first time I saw and heard the big Ducati L twin. Many years later cant get past it I still feel the last big L twin of the 1199 and 1299 look and sound better than the new V4’s .th-cam.com/video/djBakvcuC40/w-d-xo.html
Hmmm.... I believe you're a bit off, I think it accelerates smoother since it only have 2 cylinders! The World Superbike Championship was known as the Ducati Cup from the early 90's on, the rules have always been laidout to benefit the Cylinder layout of Ducati and that's why they have the Championships that they have. But the concern is how large can you go to keep that benefit, I believe V-twins were at 1200cc max, and the efficiency and technology is ever improving for 4 cylinder 1000cc as it is for V-twins!
V2's can stay as road bikes in my opinion, not everything has to be cutting edge on the road. At least Junior Panigale can be V2 for a longer time. See the kind of bike a KTM Superduke 1290R is, its challenging the Hayabusa with just 10NM less torque, but a huge 130 pound/ 62 kgs weight avantage. I would choose it over any Ducati any day on the road. A Road bike needs torque at the right places. And a V2 is more practical for all purposes including good service possibility, lower running costs, torque, etc.
They should use their fancy desmodromic cams with linked pushrods. You couldn't have DOHC, but a consumer v-con engine would be more compact without the rev limit, only racers and idiots wring the throttle or floor the pedal, non-variable SOHC is actually more efficient and allows a higher compression ratio.
I wouldn’t call it mechanical balance, because balance is usually referred to vibration (like primary imbalance, secondary ecc…) you didn’t explain it very well. Let me elaborate, this “mechanical balance” is referred to traction and recovery spaces on the wheel, on an inline four there’s a power stroke every 180 degrees so there’s barely any space for wheel recovery which is different for the 90* twin. This configuration fires as follows: 270-450-270-450 … so there are larger gaps for the wheel to cool and recover traction on tight corners
My Ducati 916 took a little longer to master, it has nothing to do with the twin I believe it was the wheel base. I had no problem taming the beast in my 1199 Panigale
Always remember a track day at Donnington park a few years ago. After warm up the first few bikes to have a spill were big Ducatis. Just not as foregiving.
When the first 90⁰ V engines came out the Ducatis were a dream to ride, comparatively speaking. After many years of evolution eking ever more power from the basic package some undesirable quirks started to crop up.
There are many factual errors in this video. An inline four is in near perfect balance and does NOT require a balance shaft unless it has an unusual firing order. The main advantage of a twin on a racetrack is the longer gap in power pulses, giving the tyre time to recover.
The Inline 4 has TERRIBLE secondary balance sir, it's why they're typically only smaller engines. The secondary vibration increases dramatically as engine size goes up. Were it not for this problem, we would all be driving Inline 4s in everything as they're the easiest engine to produce. The power pulse issue was more 500CC two-strokes - the primary issue for 4-stroke I-4s, which he addressed, is the radical boost in power AT CERTAIN RPMS. It's a DUH given that 4 cylinder has more power pulses than a 2 cylinder. Back when I watched Carl Fogerty win everything on Ducatis (and was racing in Supersport myself) the thing I always heard about them was their thinner, more flickable profile made them kill everything in the corners.
That big v-twin has so much vibrations at higher revs. V twins are good fo small sports bikes or cruisers. But it’s shit when it comes to big superbikes.
Wasn't a big fan of da Duc. But......having said that,......... b.m.f!!!. When you stand all the bikes up straight, have some new paint on standby. Nobody can touch the Ducati in a fairly long, straight line . Motogp, wsbk (Bautista roasting dat ZX 10. I understand da M1, but da Zed?) Ain't emem' close. Too aggressive of a riding position for my taste. Da ticket?? '06 ZX1000 Kwakaski. Dual two bros Black series full exhaust, symphony. PC5 extra 5_7 ponies. Awesome motorcycle, great bike for your first liter bike, or any bike for that matter. Easy to ride. Absolute bullet if you ask it to be, cool as a long touring bike as well. Upright ergs, faired (until u hit a deer doing sixxy!! Den itsa streetfighter!!HaHa) smooth power delivery, jumps at 7 rpms all the way to 10. Saved my bacon many a time. That and and the Q3+. Great feedback on this bike, heavy enough to be stable. Durable also. Unfortunately, I've tested it a cuppl' timez!!
I love the old V-Twins from Ducati. But I've ridden them and I'd prefer the smaller displacement models. 750 or so is just right for the streets. I'm willing to listen if anyone has something to add?
I agree.. I had a 848evo for a while.. man I loved that bike.. now I have the 1198s but still miss the 848. So much fun to wring its neck... the 1198s just gives me evil death stares when I try to play rough.
Agree. I've had the 748, 916 and now a 749. It's a much easier and more friendly road bike. The 999 was their most successful V2 race bike and I believe the pinnacle of the V twin design. After that, they struggled.
@@thetonetosser This was the era I got to ride the most. I loved these older Desmo V-Twins. They are the engines from Ducati I aspire to own and put several miles onto.
Vous oubliez une chose. C'est que lorsque Ducati ont passé la cylindrée de leur moteur à 1200cc, les moteurs étaient bridés à l'admission... Et pour ceux qui pensent que le règlement a toujours avantagé Ducati, le règlement n'a jamais empêché les japonais de faire des bicylindres ! Une certaine VTR a plutôt bien réussi !
"Here's Why Ducati Stopped Making Big V-Twin Engine" They haven't "stopped", they still offer models with the twin cylinder engine in their 2023 range.😆 Bit of click bait there??😏😏
because now owned by v0lkswagen, duc4ti is just a name. before duc4ti was owned by v0lkswagen, duc4ti tried to stay away from honda motorbikes, and tried to maintain 2 cylinders.
Unfortunately most explanations of motorcycle engine torque, balance, piston inertia, big bang firing pattern, etc. tend to be completely bogus fabrications. The promotional material from Japanese manufacturers is typically just as bad and treat the customers as they are idiots.
V4 because of WSBK. Simple as that. The V4s, like the MGP engines, run backwards as the old Bevel Twins. The WSBK 2-cyl limit is 1200 cc, not "nearly 1300 cc". The new V4s are designed the same way as the MGP engines and the DD16. The V4 GT has no Desmo though...
So it's all about politics and the rules of tyrannical governments. So Ducati goes from building a wonderful bike with tons of character to building a smooth, quiet, drop dead boring bike, because of government tyrants. And yes I believe a bike has to be more than just fast to be desirable. It has to provide an enjoyable riding experience. A Hayabusa is fast, but it's as boring as they come. Even a Goldwing is less boring, because it has all those buttons and switches and knobs to play with.
I remember there is a formula, for the same a 1000cc 4 cylinder with a: -fix power -fix rpm -fix torque A 2 cylinder must to be 1.2time 4 cylinder's displacement in order to reach same figures. As ducati moved to v4 they got back at 1000cc
@@fidelcatsro6948 Yeah but you can rest easy knowing your bike has one of the most best, and most bulletproof engines ever to power a motorcycle, The mighty oil cooled Suzuki inline 4, one of my bikes has the same engine😆 (01 GS1200SS )
Yes they are still making twins but they are slowly phasing out ther Big V-Twins which are over 1000 cc of capacity, like the Superquadro, testastretta etc. The only Flagship Ducati available with big V-Twin is the Diavel. All the other flagship models now comes with their V4 engines.
No one seems to acknowledge Ducati always got a 250cc displacement advantage along with a weight advantage using a V twin layout. They ruined WSBK and MtoGP to a degree.
@@re-eo3yu I'm not allowed to ride my boyfriend's GSXR 1000, because I don't own any flip flops. Can't ride it without the right gear you see. Gotta stick to my MT-09 I guess 🤷♂
What are you talking about? Ducati is still building and selling V2 engines! PS: Your idea that a Motorbike company has to bribe for success may be part of the culture in your country but it surly does not apply to Ducati. Your whole "report" is a joke and pure click bait and furthermore difficult to understand, it sounds like you are eating and talking at the same time! LOL
Alvero didn't choke the first time. He had a 13-races winning streak, but WSBK officials restricted the V4R in the middle of a season, killing the bike's higher rev advantage and dramatically reducing its performance, which gave an advantage to Kawasaki.
What brings you to this opinion? I had 2, 3 and 4 cyl inline as well as V2 and V4, none of which Ducati btw. After knowing the torque / performance of a V- engine, I will not switch back to inline. They just lack of torque below 5000 rpm. Simply not my style of riding.
what a load of bull💩😂 V2 better balanced than inline 4 lol do ypu ever ride both ? 🫣😂yes v2 90 degreess required less balanced stuff but ….. inline 4 is smooyh like velvet vs V2 is like foken tractor in comparison from 1950 👌🏻😂 get real boi and stop bull💩 people 👍🏻 personally own cbr 600 f2 inline 4 this bike was so smooth comapre to V2 sv650 s which im own now that its hard to subcribe 🤭 the only diffrenc is that when ypu are in corner at full lean on cbr 600 f2 at 10000 rpm vs on sv 650 s at 7000 rpm on track and you twist throtle in both similar let say to 75% cbr will generate much more THRUST / contact path force try to launch ypu from corner or crash you 😉👌🏻 than sv 650 cos its inline 4 make much more POWER aka HP 👌🏻😎… now than V2 pulse which are biger and occure after longer time between each impact stronger on grip you mooon than inline 4 with 4 small piston with smaller diffrenc in ignition timing and cylinder explosion where each of this explosioon punch weaker 🤭👌🏻 first learn about subkect than make video about this not the other way around 👍🏻1 cyl impact strongest on grip with one explosion pulse per whole work cycle 👌🏻 vs electric which have smallest diffrences betweene „cylinder explosion” with weakest of each explosion have smallest impact on grip cos iits like constant weak push vs singl cyl combustion is like booom than nothing long time and again boom 😉👌🏻 assuming acceleration is the same but in reallity diffrenc in grip is very smalll cos gearing and engine itself make so much biger rpm than drive wheel actuallly what make booom per rptsion tire much more pften what smoooooooth everything 👌🏻 if you calculate how often each setup make boom per 1 tire rotstion it turn out its almost point lesss subject 😎 thats why you seeen duc 999 in 2000 or whatever on world superbike racing which was able to ride head to head woth inline 4 gsxr 1000 or r1 👍🏻😎its laughable subject 🤭 even single cyl be able to go with tham head to head in corners assuming wpuld have similar power and overall similar suspension frame asf setup 🤷🏻♂️👌🏻unless this single be 100 litres dispalcement with pesk power at 1 rpm 😉🫣 than it would do one huge booom with super big time intervsll diffrecn for comapkin the same power and than grip csn be lost there egzist offcorse vorder for everyhing 😉👍🏻 … anyways the more cylinder engine have the more smoooth power delivery it would have 👌🏻 honda cb 1000 x with inline 6 from 1980 os work so smooooth that rider barellly feeel he have drive bike with combustion engine .,basically you subcribe 2 diffrent phenomenom in this veido as one so balanced of cylinders setup and quantity and pulse and how both impact on grip but those are not the same stuff 👌🏻 inline 4 always in microscale will provide more grip than v or inline 2 👌🏻 due to hz of explosion in cylinders and size /force of explosion 😎👍🏻 but like im write and what show wsb racing with v2 999 its pointless and yea only for microscale cou t basically 🤷🏻♂️
VERY GOOD ! I presently own two Ducaties. A 2017 Panigale 1299s and a 2021 Street Fighter Dark Stealth edition. I wanted the last of the BIG twin, purchased a leftover 1299 December 2018 at a $5,000 discount, BEST decision I ever made.30,000 trouble free miles since new.I fell in love with the 2020 S.F. after a test ride and got the First dark stealth bike in My area. TWO entirely different bikes, each unique in there own way. The S.F. is a far more forgiving bike then the 1299. As you stated, the 1299 lets me know,, RESPECT ME or I will kill you! Keeps me on my toes, a handful too launch, NO launch control like the Street Fighter. IF you scare easily,, you will NEVER use the full potential of this bike. I LOVE IT! 198 rear wheel horse on the Dino 398 lbs. to my knowledge, the lightest super bike. My best time in the 1/4 mile 9.80 with a good launch. The S.F. 207 horse @ the rear wheel, 9.54 1/4 mile, NOT using launch control. 415 lbs. Again so forgiving, controllable wheelies and less vibration then the 1299.15,000 in 2 years. These bikes are my everyday transportation. Both are occasional track day bikes as well. constantly challenged on the street, never beaten. 2023 Panigale R next. I am 175 lbs and soon to be 74 !! Be safe out the guys
@@wardmontgomery9259 happy burfdae!
happy burfdae!!
And here's me being happy with my 50 HP RD400. I love the smell of two stroke in the morning.
I own a 2015 1299s and I agree with you regarding the need to show it proper respect . If you do not you will be taking pavement samples very quickly . With that being said I love the thing .
@@RedBud315 i used to own a rd350ypvs great bike 🐱👍🏿
The V4's are here to stay, no doubt, but I don''t see them giving up on the V2 engines in any hurry. Monsters, SS, Multistradas, Iwoud say there would always be a place for the V2 engine in the Ducati lineup.😎
The streetfighter V2 has been their best seller. I don't think it's going anywhere.
We certainly miss big bore v twin. But latest but smaller displacement line up like monster and scrambler still exciting. Especially the scrambler, I love that air cooled engine. Smell different like, literally smell like a real machine
Us mere mortals like the L Twins.
did you try an I4?
@@raulbila46I don't know too many people who have ridden an L twin but not an inline 4... But I guess it's possible
Embrace the future and it has the V4.
@@brianbelcher7279 yeah, I was a Honda mechanic. Luv'd the CBX I6.
I used to sync all six carbs with mercury sticks.
Bought my 1200 monster new, and i still love the L twin torque today.
Not the best numbers bike but for commuting and weekend shenanigans.
It's perfect for me.
would u say a 2019-20 mts 1260 enduro good for everyday commute and some long touring?
Years ago l owned a 900 SS bevel drive bike...it sounded great with its slow rhythmic thudding exhaust.. okay it was a bit mechanical noisy but once on the move it showed exactly what it was ...a thoroughbred. The big V- twin motor had same profile as a single. l always thought the 916 a masterpiece of design .... wish l still owned my 900SS though.
I had one, somehow the bike's steering head was welded off center and made for "interesting" steering. Was a 1980 silver/blue trim 900SS.
The Ducati Desmosedici D16RR was the foundation for the Ducati V4 we see today.
shame,V4 sounds good but will never sound better than v twin, 1199 and 1299 are just masterpieces
Whoever wrote and edited this video is amazing your narration was100% too. Don’t know if all the facts are legit but who cares, amazingly done.
L-Twin Single Swing Arm Under Tail Exhaust = my 1198s. There is no other DUCATI model for me. The 848/1098/1198 series is the pinnacle of Ducati. The Panigale was the end. A bike that tried just a little too hard.
1198s what a bike,end of a era
Would absolutely LOVE to own a relatively low-mile 1098S someday 😍
I'm a old high milage rider put half a million miles on old air cooled BMWs and 80k miles on a 900ss sl. Enjoyed every single mile on that super sport.
That is a lot of riding on a Desmo with Winkler caps!
@peoplehavetherights yep lots of maintenance but I worked at a duck dealership
Really wish it wasn't true but the bigger the bore the thinner the combustion chamber and you can't make strokes but so short in order to keep increasing horsepower Harley Davidson even has had two v-force designed in the last few years but will not produce but the thing is we're going to have to go to the V4 you can't just keep making bigger pistons and made emissions levels
Excellent video - well directed and informative. I am new to this channel and very impressed with the content. Will subscribe and share - thanks
Thanks for the support...
Keeping my old M900 Monster.
Keeping my old ST4s 996cc. 😀
collectability of all L twin models has just gone ⬆️
Yep... my 1198s has gone up 6k in 4 years
Good analysis.. I can understand this as I ride TWIN CYLINDER & IN LINE 4. So performance, Top speed and cornering is really different. Just sharing my little experience and I am not a expert.
Thanks for the upload
The Desmosedici Stradale engine wasn't an entirely new, ground-up design. It is a variant based off the engine used in the MotoGP bike. Just like the Grand Tourismo engine in the Multistrada V4 and now Diavel V4 are further iterations after the Stradale. Ducati has been making V4 engines since 2003.
You're right.. I used "entirely new" as a metaphor in the sense that we've never seen it on a Ducati road bike before (except for the limited run Desmosedici RR).
@@RevvingHeart even that usage is still admittedly inaccurate. The more accurate choice would be to say that with the Panigale V4 they finally released a standard production V4 power plant.
@@AT2Productions picky pick picky
@Savage22 Bolt clarity in communication leads to better understanding between all. Plus I am an engineer, precision is part of the personality. LOL
@@AT2Productions i was in purchasing, you engineers used to drive me nuts! ❤
not to mention the traditional, flatplane inline 4 (anything other than 2009 Yamaha YZF-R1, which is a Crossplane engine based from YZR-M1) firing order is so even that it's actually undesirable for motorcycle racing with more than 200 horses, i think it's something called "Recovery Gap" idk.
The Inline Fours went to Cross-plane crank , Big Bang configuration to solve the Traction issues .
A 4 cylinder , with power pulses like a V-Twin . Ducati cried FOUL and lobbied for the Capacity concession . And got it .
I don't think that a v2 engine is more balanced than a inline 4, yes both are balanced for primary vibrations, but the first is an uneven fire engine 270° - 450° while inline 4 is even firing 180° - 180° - 180° -180°
The 90 degree v twin engine has perfect primary balance inherent to it design.
Not all fours are designed for buttery smooth delivery. Crossplane crankshafts, for instance.
You have it completely backwards. L twins still have secondary imbalances, like inline 4 engines. Their firing interval is also significantly less even, which is the real reason L twin engines are less prone to highside crashes. The spikes in torque delivered upon a cylinder firing are less even, giving the tires longer to recover grip between spikes in torque. This is called the big bang effect, and is also why Yamaha R1s have crossplane I4 engines.
If you think about how rare the 1299 is on the road it being a "dirtier" motor, on the grand scale makes no environmental impact. Fact is the V-twin could not compete with the inline 4 any longer. The V-twin was just maxed out. Honda, Aprilia all gave up the V-twin in WSBK for a reason. Ducati was just a bit more stubborn to make it happen.
after 12 years of riding i just got a 1199 tricolore, love that bike!
but man i cant ride it without earplugs, i like my ears
Great story, thanks👍
Riding high performance V4 bikes since mid 90s (VMaxes 1200 and 1700) I heard so many Ducatisti hailing the outdated V2 concept.
Now, they react as if Ducati has invented kryptonite.
V4 rules.
And even if the VMax is heavy and the old one was not behaving very well on modern standard, the engines (1200 and 1700 V4) were absolute masterpieces.
The Honda V4 engines as well btw.
So, Ducati is just 40 years back in this development.
But still, as always from that side, big comments...
Does 540° and 270° firing intervals mean anything to you? That was the reason tractability was better on 90° V-twins, now even applied on inline 2's and 4's by means of crossplane crank shafts.
These new parallel twins with uneven (270 degree) firing order only have it to make the engine sound more like a V-twin (less buzzy, a bit rougher and so more characterful). The manufacturers' claim that the 270 crank aids traction is far-fetched. They want to cut costs with a single cylinder block, but won't admit that's their main reason for dropping the V-twin, which is my (long) experience is the best configuation for a bike engine.
@@gerrycollins7079 oh yesss, i agree
Everything I’ve read over the years, agrees: supposedly, by maximizing the timing gap between power-pulses, the driven tire has more time to recover grip, before the next pulse distorts the tire’s carcass. This seems much more plausible (to me) than abrupt torque-increase when opening the throttle! We’ve had sophisticated launch control for years (they had to ban it, in drag racing), which is the same technology as what’s needed, here…
This agrees with everything I’ve read over the years, about traction at the limit: by putting both power pulses in the same crank-rotation, you create the largest timing-gap between power-delivery ‘clusters’, which allows the tire’s carcass the most time to ‘un-distort’ between torque pulses. This certainly ma by kes more sense to me, than abrupt crank-acceleration! We’ve had launch-control for years, which is the same basic technology…
On the Suzuki square 4 two strokes, (Barry Sheen era) they could change the firing order by just assembling the engine differently, they found out (why they tried such a mad idea is beyond me) that the "big bang" engine, using two cylinders firing at the same time got better traction, it's seems counter intuitive, but if it works, it works.
I love the sound of the V4. It is a pity, it will stop.
Can't beat the burble of L twin , 996 99 , Sound so cool , and they got a dash of lout value , . RARARA
Thank you!
I still remember like it was yesterday when I was a little boy the first time I saw and heard the big Ducati L twin. Many years later cant get past it I still feel the last big L twin of the 1199 and 1299 look and sound better than the new V4’s .th-cam.com/video/djBakvcuC40/w-d-xo.html
BMW flat four is the best geometry symmetry 👌🏿
I don't think BMW makes any flat - four but they do have a flat - Twin and it sure is an interesting format.
Hmmm.... I believe you're a bit off, I think it accelerates smoother since it only have 2 cylinders! The World Superbike Championship was known as the Ducati Cup from the early 90's on, the rules have always been laidout to benefit the Cylinder layout of Ducati and that's why they have the Championships that they have. But the concern is how large can you go to keep that benefit, I believe V-twins were at 1200cc max, and the efficiency and technology is ever improving for 4 cylinder 1000cc as it is for V-twins!
Yep, and in the early years they were allowed to not only be 250cc larger in displacement, but quite a bit lighter too.
Interesting.
V2's can stay as road bikes in my opinion, not everything has to be cutting edge on the road.
At least Junior Panigale can be V2 for a longer time.
See the kind of bike a KTM Superduke 1290R is, its challenging the Hayabusa with just 10NM less torque, but a huge 130 pound/ 62 kgs weight avantage.
I would choose it over any Ducati any day on the road. A Road bike needs torque at the right places.
And a V2 is more practical for all purposes including good service possibility, lower running costs, torque, etc.
nice
I love em , I love my 1999 996 , it's just Right , and that's all . RARARA
They should use their fancy desmodromic cams with linked pushrods. You couldn't have DOHC, but a consumer v-con engine would be more compact without the rev limit, only racers and idiots wring the throttle or floor the pedal, non-variable SOHC is actually more efficient and allows a higher compression ratio.
Stopped V2 started L2 🗿
I wouldn’t call it mechanical balance, because balance is usually referred to vibration (like primary imbalance, secondary ecc…) you didn’t explain it very well. Let me elaborate, this “mechanical balance” is referred to traction and recovery spaces on the wheel, on an inline four there’s a power stroke every 180 degrees so there’s barely any space for wheel recovery which is different for the 90* twin. This configuration fires as follows: 270-450-270-450 … so there are larger gaps for the wheel to cool and recover traction on tight corners
Knowing this What bike/engine would you buy for yourself for on road use?
If I am being honest.. No. Don't get me Panigale is are great, but it's just not for me.
Anyone who has owned both,know a Ducati v twin is a difficult beast to ride
Absolutely right..👍
My Ducati 916 took a little longer to master, it has nothing to do with the twin I believe it was the wheel base. I had no problem taming the beast in my 1199 Panigale
Always remember a track day at Donnington park a few years ago. After warm up the first few bikes to have a spill were big Ducatis. Just not as foregiving.
When the first 90⁰ V engines came out the Ducatis were a dream to ride, comparatively speaking. After many years of evolution eking ever more power from the basic package some undesirable quirks started to crop up.
V4.....love them
At this point in time they didn't
There are many factual errors in this video. An inline four is in near perfect balance and does NOT require a balance shaft unless it has an unusual firing order. The main advantage of a twin on a racetrack is the longer gap in power pulses, giving the tyre time to recover.
The Inline 4 has TERRIBLE secondary balance sir, it's why they're typically only smaller engines. The secondary vibration increases dramatically as engine size goes up. Were it not for this problem, we would all be driving Inline 4s in everything as they're the easiest engine to produce. The power pulse issue was more 500CC two-strokes - the primary issue for 4-stroke I-4s, which he addressed, is the radical boost in power AT CERTAIN RPMS. It's a DUH given that 4 cylinder has more power pulses than a 2 cylinder. Back when I watched Carl Fogerty win everything on Ducatis (and was racing in Supersport myself) the thing I always heard about them was their thinner, more flickable profile made them kill everything in the corners.
Saying that V2 is more balanced than inline 4 is nonsense.
Excellent 🤗
I can not get my ducati to start why is that? it like sitting still more than running.
That big v-twin has so much vibrations at higher revs. V twins are good fo small sports bikes or cruisers. But it’s shit when it comes to big superbikes.
Wasn't a big fan of da Duc. But......having said that,......... b.m.f!!!. When you stand all the bikes up straight, have some new paint on standby. Nobody can touch the Ducati in a fairly long, straight line . Motogp, wsbk (Bautista roasting dat ZX 10. I understand da M1, but da Zed?) Ain't emem' close. Too aggressive of a riding position for my taste. Da ticket?? '06 ZX1000 Kwakaski. Dual two bros Black series full exhaust, symphony. PC5 extra 5_7 ponies. Awesome motorcycle, great bike for your first liter bike, or any bike for that matter. Easy to ride. Absolute bullet if you ask it to be, cool as a long touring bike as well. Upright ergs, faired (until u hit a deer doing sixxy!! Den itsa streetfighter!!HaHa) smooth power delivery, jumps at 7 rpms all the way to 10. Saved my bacon many a time. That and and the Q3+. Great feedback on this bike, heavy enough to be stable. Durable also. Unfortunately, I've tested it a cuppl' timez!!
Correction, they officially want us to call it an L-Twin lol
I love the old V-Twins from Ducati. But I've ridden them and I'd prefer the smaller displacement models. 750 or so is just right for the streets.
I'm willing to listen if anyone has something to add?
I agree.. I had a 848evo for a while.. man I loved that bike.. now I have the 1198s but still miss the 848. So much fun to wring its neck... the 1198s just gives me evil death stares when I try to play rough.
Agree. I've had the 748, 916 and now a 749. It's a much easier and more friendly road bike. The 999 was their most successful V2 race bike and I believe the pinnacle of the V twin design. After that, they struggled.
@@vdub4216 I never rode a 848 but reading your comment I would like to.
@@thetonetosser This was the era I got to ride the most. I loved these older Desmo V-Twins.
They are the engines from Ducati I aspire to own and put several miles onto.
The moral of the story?
EFF EURO EMISSIONS
use 2 strokes again! waaaang waang !
@@fidelcatsro6948 😜😜😜
Marginal video. Good production.
3 outta ten
Because WSBK rules
Since when has Ducati stopped making twins???????
I didn't mean all V-Twins, it's just those massive V-Twins used in their flagship bikes.
They still make 3 twins. The V2 the ducati monster and scrambler
@@USAracing The Supersport, the Multistrada et al....
L twin for Ducati
I own a monster 696+ and im telling you its an amazing bike. Buy a ducati
The more you tune a vtwin with such a short stroke the more it behaves like an in-line 4 and you lose all the strength a vtwin gave you.
But panigale 1299 is the best looking panigale out there. I think it's the peak.
Vous oubliez une chose. C'est que lorsque Ducati ont passé la cylindrée de leur moteur à 1200cc, les moteurs étaient bridés à l'admission...
Et pour ceux qui pensent que le règlement a toujours avantagé Ducati, le règlement n'a jamais empêché les japonais de faire des bicylindres !
Une certaine VTR a plutôt bien réussi !
"Here's Why Ducati Stopped Making Big V-Twin Engine" They haven't "stopped", they still offer models with the twin cylinder engine in their 2023 range.😆 Bit of click bait there??😏😏
They still but no more biggest, baddest, most powerful line up is V twin. So yeah, big v twin is dead dead
L twin any day !!
The engine 50%, and the rider is also 50% as important.
IMO
because now owned by v0lkswagen, duc4ti is just a name. before duc4ti was owned by v0lkswagen, duc4ti tried to stay away from honda motorbikes, and tried to maintain 2 cylinders.
They never made a V-twin.
They made an L-twin.
Unfortunately most explanations of motorcycle engine torque, balance, piston inertia, big bang firing pattern, etc. tend to be completely bogus fabrications. The promotional material from Japanese manufacturers is typically just as bad and treat the customers as they are idiots.
The year 3000ad Harley makes it first 4 cylinder
Hoping for a V3 just to wig everyone out!
Correction: at lean you have the most traction per the tire foot print. It's just a totally different balancing act to get it to the ground.
Ducati have not abandoned the V2 WTAF?
No they haven't. It's those big V-Twins.
They won this year because their rider is the size of a horse jockey! Dude is a half grown man!
L twin*
V4 because of WSBK. Simple as that. The V4s, like the MGP engines, run backwards as the old Bevel Twins. The WSBK 2-cyl limit is 1200 cc, not "nearly 1300 cc". The new V4s are designed the same way as the MGP engines and the DD16. The V4 GT has no Desmo though...
Couldn't they have just used twin, or triple spark plugs?
I'm pretty sure that they may have explored that option too. And the results might have fallen short of the target.
So it's all about politics and the rules of tyrannical governments. So Ducati goes from building a wonderful bike with tons of character to building a smooth, quiet, drop dead boring bike, because of government tyrants. And yes I believe a bike has to be more than just fast to be desirable. It has to provide an enjoyable riding experience. A Hayabusa is fast, but it's as boring as they come. Even a Goldwing is less boring, because it has all those buttons and switches and knobs to play with.
I remember there is a formula, for the same a 1000cc 4 cylinder with a:
-fix power
-fix rpm
-fix torque
A 2 cylinder must to be 1.2time 4 cylinder's displacement in order to reach same figures.
As ducati moved to v4 they got back at 1000cc
my 06 bandit1200 4 cylinder is nowhere the power of a supersport1000 4 cylinder!! someone mustve have screwed up at the drawing board!
@@fidelcatsro6948 Yeah but you can rest easy knowing your bike has one of the most best, and most bulletproof engines ever to power a motorcycle, The mighty oil cooled Suzuki inline 4, one of my bikes has the same engine😆 (01 GS1200SS )
@@uhtred7860 lets throw away its standard mikuni put in a flatslide carb on that, maybe that will boost the power!
I'm pretty sure they still make the twin... wth
Yes they are still making twins but they are slowly phasing out ther Big V-Twins which are over 1000 cc of capacity, like the Superquadro, testastretta etc. The only Flagship Ducati available with big V-Twin is the Diavel. All the other flagship models now comes with their V4 engines.
@@RevvingHeart oh I see what you're saying. They stopping production of the big bikes with twin cyl. ie, superbike class...
No one seems to acknowledge Ducati always got a 250cc displacement advantage along with a weight advantage using a V twin layout. They ruined WSBK and MtoGP to a degree.
It's really hard to understand you.
Sold their soul?
FIM WSB and MotoGP are rigged. Ducati is not as advanced as Yamaha nor Honda.
Malayali aanu alle.
😜
Ducati owners are fed up with constantly having to borrow their wife’s boyfriend’s Gixxer to go fast.
That’s why they’re going 4 cylinder.
🤣🤣🤣
Clearly you haven't experienced the BIG power of the 1299 Panigale.
Or in your case ….. your boyfriends bike
@@re-eo3yu
I'm not allowed to ride my boyfriend's GSXR 1000, because I don't own any flip flops.
Can't ride it without the right gear you see.
Gotta stick to my MT-09 I guess 🤷♂
Do they feel the same? Like a 1299 has pretty much the same power as a I4 1000cc just less 2 cylinders. Do you get that top end rush/feel?
Wow.....several errors in this video!!!
Factually & Technically incorrect on many issues with the subject.
Can you explain...?? I am a bit confused 🤔🤔
This TH-camr it’s just copy and paste from the another channel ….😮
V Twin needs 50% more cc to get the same power as 4 cylinder ones..that is why V twins engines are garbage for racing....
You mean like 2 more cylinders to have the same power????? Amazing!
V4 is better
What are you talking about? Ducati is still building and selling V2 engines! PS: Your idea that a Motorbike company has to bribe for success may be part of the culture in your country but it surly does not apply to Ducati. Your whole "report" is a joke and pure click bait and furthermore difficult to understand, it sounds like you are eating and talking at the same time! LOL
You should get a english speaking person to do the comments in your video, or slow down your slurry speak
CLICK BAIT
Ducati should have already had a WSBK title but Bautista choked the 1st time on the V4
Alvero didn't choke the first time. He had a 13-races winning streak, but WSBK officials restricted the V4R in the middle of a season, killing the bike's higher rev advantage and dramatically reducing its performance, which gave an advantage to Kawasaki.
In line fours are better motors and more reliable. Yes on the gsxr!
What brings you to this opinion?
I had 2, 3 and 4 cyl inline as well as V2 and V4, none of which Ducati btw.
After knowing the torque / performance of a V- engine, I will not switch back to inline. They just lack of torque below 5000 rpm.
Simply not my style of riding.
IMPOSSIBLE English pronunciation!
Cause he Italian 😂
Cause v twins are turds and you can get almost 2x the power per displacement with a 4 cylinder...
DUCATI never made a V-Twin engine.
L-TWIN.
what a load of bull💩😂 V2 better balanced than inline 4 lol do ypu ever ride both ? 🫣😂yes v2 90 degreess required less balanced stuff but ….. inline 4 is smooyh like velvet vs V2 is like foken tractor in comparison from 1950 👌🏻😂 get real boi and stop bull💩 people 👍🏻 personally own cbr 600 f2 inline 4 this bike was so smooth comapre to V2 sv650 s which im own now that its hard to subcribe 🤭 the only diffrenc is that when ypu are in corner at full lean on cbr 600 f2 at 10000 rpm vs on sv 650 s at 7000 rpm on track and you twist throtle in both similar let say to 75% cbr will generate much more THRUST / contact path force try to launch ypu from corner or crash you 😉👌🏻 than sv 650 cos its inline 4 make much more POWER aka HP 👌🏻😎… now than V2 pulse which are biger and occure after longer time between each impact stronger on grip you mooon than inline 4 with 4 small piston with smaller diffrenc in ignition timing and cylinder explosion where each of this explosioon punch weaker 🤭👌🏻 first learn about subkect than make video about this not the other way around 👍🏻1 cyl impact strongest on grip with one explosion pulse per whole work cycle 👌🏻 vs electric which have smallest diffrences betweene „cylinder explosion” with weakest of each explosion have smallest impact on grip cos iits like constant weak push vs singl cyl combustion is like booom than nothing long time and again boom 😉👌🏻 assuming acceleration is the same but in reallity diffrenc in grip is very smalll cos gearing and engine itself make so much biger rpm than drive wheel actuallly what make booom per rptsion tire much more pften what smoooooooth everything 👌🏻 if you calculate how often each setup make boom per 1 tire rotstion it turn out its almost point lesss subject 😎 thats why you seeen duc 999 in 2000 or whatever on world superbike racing which was able to ride head to head woth inline 4 gsxr 1000 or r1 👍🏻😎its laughable subject 🤭 even single cyl be able to go with tham head to head in corners assuming wpuld have similar power and overall similar suspension frame asf setup 🤷🏻♂️👌🏻unless this single be 100 litres dispalcement with pesk power at 1 rpm 😉🫣 than it would do one huge booom with super big time intervsll diffrecn for comapkin the same power and than grip csn be lost there egzist offcorse vorder for everyhing 😉👍🏻 … anyways the more cylinder engine have the more smoooth power delivery it would have 👌🏻 honda cb 1000 x with inline 6 from 1980 os work so smooooth that rider barellly feeel he have drive bike with combustion engine .,basically you subcribe 2 diffrent phenomenom in this veido as one so balanced of cylinders setup and quantity and pulse and how both impact on grip but those are not the same stuff 👌🏻 inline 4 always in microscale will provide more grip than v or inline 2 👌🏻 due to hz of explosion in cylinders and size /force of explosion 😎👍🏻 but like im write and what show wsb racing with v2 999 its pointless and yea only for microscale cou t basically 🤷🏻♂️