True cz all those lags were consistent to the point that it feels like the game was designed that way. Easiest example is when someone try to play rhythm game with different off-set setting, it will messed up all their input because it now has different timing.
I learned to play Sekai on a 6 yo potato and thought it was holding me back from getting better. I kid you not, I spent an entire month mucking around with latency settings from -5 to +2 just to end up at 0 again because it was always fine it's just my eyes could not understand 120 fps vs 15 fps 😂 And then I sucked for another 3 months...
@@el_kabong she has the experience and skill, but the game is just too unrelenting to beat if you don't have perfect control..... It'll probably never happen but she should challenge the game again 😞
Not to mention that CRT displays have basically no processing lag (approximated by today's display's "game mode") and no display lag (big factor in LCD displays, not a factor in OLED displays).
So that means that she managed to beat games like dragon's lair, battle toads and that transformers game with extra input delay. Thats seriously impressive.
She's also played multiple rhythm games, like Donkey Konga, and even Wario Ware Twisted (whilst also using the Gamecube as the controller, so she could capture it. Yes, the Gamecube itself. She put the GBA game in the Gameboy Player and picked up and moved the Gamecube to play Wario Ware Twisted) all with lag!
Kirby, Punchout, Dragon's Lair...and that's just the one player games. How many times has she fought with Marine and Okayu with this handicap...and WON? That's some straight Observation level stuff.
@@LilyKazami Now I need to go back and watch her nearly 12-hour Cho Aniki battle with Senchou. She didn't win that particular battle, but maybe she would have without the additional input latency.
I actually remember this being brought up and discussed maybe four years ago when she described her setup the first time, and she has never changed lol
right, i vaguely remember that. i think she basically said she didn't get what chat was selling and it was too hard to do. so she didn't see the point.
@@0b5qRa I don't think it was ever as impactful in DB than when Rock Lee did it. There were too few moments that weren't that big before "dropping the weights" stopped being relevant to anything and they replaced it with multiplied gravity.
@@JackFrosthawk I really did like how it was handled at the end of Dragon Ball though. DB is about the growth of Goku, as a fighter and a boy, seeing how strong he became was cool! In the context of a climatic, tense battle I definitely prefer Rock Lee's take on it though. Goku made me feel proud of his accomplishments, Rock Lee made me feel hyped up for the battle.
@@elvenstein it was definitely cool but I think they way they played it off so causally compared to Lee's reveal is why more people associate these moments with Lee more than Goku. To be fair, Goku (and the Saiyans) have a monopoly on cool power up scenes so it's fair.
On the contrast, playing like this for so long might affect the timing she's used to, so going without lag might make her jump too late instead of early to adjust for the lag she's used to, whether she's conscious of it or not. WE SHALL SEE
She adapts on the fly as it is. She had trouble making immediately consecutive jumps in Metroid at first, for example, but she adapted to it and eventually matched Okayu. I think she'll take to reduced lag very quickly.
it's kinda insane how the human brain just adapts to whatever and accepts it as norm until you're presented a contrasting situation. needless to say, I instantly went from hardstuck silver in League to hardstuck plat when I switched to a more expensive gaming cafe 😂
@@rearedlogarithm It's extra sad because most of these games were expressly designed in an era where input lag basically wasn't a thing. The CRT almost instantly shows your input when using original hardware. So she really has double or triple latency: non-original hardware, on a modern display, through projected display. God forbid she's using a pro controlled in wired mode! (You heard that right, a switch pro controller in wired mode has more latency than one that's wireless. Nintendon't question it)
Nobody is talking about how Korone is actually going to be like Manabu Itagaki: the initial transition is going to be troublesome because of her prior conditioning, but once it clicks she’s basically be moving in hyper-time lol.
It really depends on the capture card. With a internal capture card (specifically with the Elgato 4k Pro mk2) there's practically no latency difference between what's on OBS vs pass through. This is due to the fact that internal capture cards use PCI. External cards on the other hand use USB and tend to have several entire seconds of latency on OBS.
With the PCIe capturer, you'll be whatever 2 frames is for your monitor behind if the display software is using a standard double buffering scheme with async texture upload. It could be 1 frame if both the GPU and capture card support compatible board-to-board transfers. To get less than that, it needs some kind of genlock. Now if you're monitor is running at 160Hz, you just don't care about 2 frames, because that's half a console frame.
Holy... That takes me back to my days of recording gameplay and attempting streaming with my old Hauppauge and later Elgato, adding delay to my mic to match the lag BACK IN 2011. IT'S 2024. KORONE PLEASE 😭🙏🏻
You're telling me she beat games hard as Kuru Kururin (GBA) or the boss rush from Kirby 64 flawless and played through R-Type and got pretty far in Battletoads all handicapped because she didn't know something as simple as the stream input lag? LMAO. This may be one of the biggest plot twist i've seen. Sasuga gamer doog😅 i still remember when Ame started playing through Mario Odyssey without streaming the screen because she blamed the lag for her constant deaths.
As someone that dabbled in streaming in the past. The OBS playback window can induce an input lag of up to 2 seconds and there is nothing you can do about it. Video needs time to encode. The fact that she's as good as she is with this lag is actually impressive and she would probably need a decent amount of time of training herself out of it. But, hey, her reflexes are probably insane because of it. Lol
She's been playing with lag these past 5 years!? And she still managed to beat super difficult games like Battle Toads!? That's actually insane, sasuga our gamer Doggo!! And thank you for showing us the difference between pasthrough and non-passthrough setups at the end!
I remember when I played Smash Ultimate through my OBS as I didn't have a monitor at the time and I couldn't get into Elite Smash no matter how hard I tried. Once I got the 2nd screen, got absolutely wasted, took less than an hour to get in. The fact that she mentioned the Rock Lee scene too reminded me why this is my kamioshi.
I mean if she started with a one monitor setup, it is almost impossible to do, you would have to unplug your monitor while streaming to plug in the pass through and even then if something went wrong on OBS you wouldn't be able to tell, not to mention reading chat or anything.
I'm no expert, but looking it up, most capture cards introduce an input delay between 2-6 frames at 60fps. To put that into perspective, for SMB3 where Mario (+P) runs at 3.5 pixels/frame, that means Mario would run 7-21 pixels before an input is received. Tiles are 16 pixels, so imagine you press the button to jump, and Mario only jumps an entire block later. It's a big handicap, especially with NES era games that were made with zero-lag analog devices in mind
Cameron from Loading Ready Run played Bloodborne with this kind of input lag for so long he had to completely relearn his muscle memory when they reconfigured their streaming setup.
Korone has just become even more of a GAMER. Although, imagine if she _couldn't_ adapt to a lack of lag because she keeps rushing her cues? That'd be a clip for the ages 🤣
I can't believe she's been playing like this all along... I remember when I first started messing with capture cards I was able to immediately feel that input lag and found an active HDMI splitter to mitigate it. Especially for rhythm games it's more complicated when messing with audio because then you want headphones coming straight from the console or monitor instead of being plugged into the PC
Ame was doing the same thing, watching the gameplay of her Switch through OBS instead of going to a TV and it made her Mario Odyssey playthrough from back in the day way more frustrating for her than it needed to be
Korone is such a huge retro gamer I just always assumed she'd done her homework and knew about things like input lag, passthroughs, scaling options, etc. We need to get this girl watching My Life in Gaming and send her a MISTer 😂
Oh gosh yeah I'd go bananas if I played off my streaming PC. Guess Koro-san just got to used to it. Might make more sense given all the other gear she's gotta setup for streaming.
![THIS is why Korone is a Genius-Level VTuber! [Liar's Bar/Hololive]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QW7vxpNTIpY/mqdefault.jpg)
![THIS is why Korone is a Genius-Level VTuber! [Liar's Bar/Hololive]](/img/tr.png)
![Korone Speeds Over to Okayu's House Mid-Stream for an Impromptu Off-Collab [Hololive]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/avGZWWAWSyc/mqdefault.jpg)
![ALLY - OH MY! [ REACTION ] 'Amarin Nitibhon' #ALLY_OHMY #ALLY #allynitibhon #แอลลี่](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nX9qpHjVfbQ/mqdefault.jpg)
So THAT explains the "have confidence" moment. Sasuga weighted training gear doggo.
Imput lag makes it look like you just never press a button.
It’s time, now after 5 years to HAVE CONFIDENCE!!!
That actually makes a lot of sense lol
Expectation: "I am UNBOUND!"
Probable Realty: "... My guy jumped earlier than expected. The timing is weird now!"
True cz all those lags were consistent to the point that it feels like the game was designed that way.
Easiest example is when someone try to play rhythm game with different off-set setting, it will messed up all their input because it now has different timing.
Yeah, she'd have to re-train to get back to her current level 😅 I don't know how good of an idea it would be for her to take off the shackles now
that's me when I switch from office keyboard to a gamepad on fighting games
Its like when you started Osu or Guitar hero at hard songs, you got used to it you become suck at easier ones
I learned to play Sekai on a 6 yo potato and thought it was holding me back from getting better. I kid you not, I spent an entire month mucking around with latency settings from -5 to +2 just to end up at 0 again because it was always fine it's just my eyes could not understand 120 fps vs 15 fps 😂 And then I sucked for another 3 months...
Korone being Rock Lee this entire time makes the most sense out of anything she could be.
taijutsu specialist streamer
Korone being an unintentional Rock Lee this entire time is a very her thing to do as well.
No wonder she has killer punches, she's a taijutsu master
this explains her boxing prowess
The fact that she's able to play NES era platformers with input lag is insane
Battletoads...she played Battletoads like this...
@@el_kabong she has the experience and skill, but the game is just too unrelenting to beat if you don't have perfect control.....
It'll probably never happen but she should challenge the game again 😞
Bro all those endurance streams, all the times she was stuck on a level for hours...
90s kids played NES hardcore games from TV without colors in low quality without saves
Not to mention that CRT displays have basically no processing lag (approximated by today's display's "game mode") and no display lag (big factor in LCD displays, not a factor in OLED displays).
So that means that she managed to beat games like dragon's lair, battle toads and that transformers game with extra input delay. Thats seriously impressive.
That's the thing, she never managed to beat battletoads so I wonder how she'd fare without the lag
@@Id0nthavename probably she didn't even noticed until Okayu mentioned... Damn...
She's also played multiple rhythm games, like Donkey Konga, and even Wario Ware Twisted (whilst also using the Gamecube as the controller, so she could capture it. Yes, the Gamecube itself. She put the GBA game in the Gameboy Player and picked up and moved the Gamecube to play Wario Ware Twisted) all with lag!
5 YEARS OF INPUT LAG?!
Yeah, she was actually playing Nintendo World Championship in 2019 but we're only now getting the footage
Okayu analyses Korone's problem.
You mean to tell me Korone has done things like Kirby 64 boss rush with input lag for the past 5 years???
Wait does that mean she learned the patterns and had to anticipate slightly?
Our doggo is just that cracked
I guess if you have input lag all the time you just get use to anticipating in advance?
Kirby, Punchout, Dragon's Lair...and that's just the one player games. How many times has she fought with Marine and Okayu with this handicap...and WON? That's some straight Observation level stuff.
@@LilyKazami
Now I need to go back and watch her nearly 12-hour Cho Aniki battle with Senchou. She didn't win that particular battle, but maybe she would have without the additional input latency.
I actually remember this being brought up and discussed maybe four years ago when she described her setup the first time, and she has never changed lol
right, i vaguely remember that. i think she basically said she didn't get what chat was selling and it was too hard to do. so she didn't see the point.
She's played through games like Battle Toads and Megaman with input lag?! That's insane...
Like playing CS with Oceania server.
@@kasupy_barrett85 Significantly better than that. We're talking 70-100ms additional input latency and 0 jitter.
I'm glad everyone uses Rock Lee as a signifier of "taking the weights off" the same way i have since i was 8 😂
Goku, Piccolo and other DBZ characters are doing it way before Naruto even existed though.
@@0b5qRa I don't think it was ever as impactful in DB than when Rock Lee did it. There were too few moments that weren't that big before "dropping the weights" stopped being relevant to anything and they replaced it with multiplied gravity.
@@JackFrosthawk
I really did like how it was handled at the end of Dragon Ball though. DB is about the growth of Goku, as a fighter and a boy, seeing how strong he became was cool!
In the context of a climatic, tense battle I definitely prefer Rock Lee's take on it though. Goku made me feel proud of his accomplishments, Rock Lee made me feel hyped up for the battle.
@@JackFrosthawkdefinitely not in DBZ, but when Goku dropped the weights against Tien in original Dragonball it was pretty sick
@@elvenstein it was definitely cool but I think they way they played it off so causally compared to Lee's reveal is why more people associate these moments with Lee more than Goku. To be fair, Goku (and the Saiyans) have a monopoly on cool power up scenes so it's fair.
I love that they used a Naruto reference to symbolize the before and after difference of Korone’s true strength lol
Indeed a rocklee moment
On the contrast, playing like this for so long might affect the timing she's used to, so going without lag might make her jump too late instead of early to adjust for the lag she's used to, whether she's conscious of it or not. WE SHALL SEE
True; it might throw her timing off a little... But she'll still improve once her timing expectations readjust to the faster responses.
I can confirm this after having gone through the same thing. Once you're used to input lag, switching to no input lag can be tough
i've also gone through this, you can adjust surprisingly quick
She adapts on the fly as it is. She had trouble making immediately consecutive jumps in Metroid at first, for example, but she adapted to it and eventually matched Okayu. I think she'll take to reduced lag very quickly.
She has flipped before and she will flip again.
Remember this year she did it with no hands.
The doggos' super insticts will rise!
The fact that she was this good with this limiter placed on her is insane 🤯
bro beats platforming games with the sort of input inertia you see in mafia 😨
Even the slightest bit of input lag drives me insane! How could doggo not notice? 😂
You get used to it
She thought that's how the games were always like, probably.
@@Kougeru Obligatory Goblin Slayer meme here.
it's kinda insane how the human brain just adapts to whatever and accepts it as norm until you're presented a contrasting situation.
needless to say, I instantly went from hardstuck silver in League to hardstuck plat when I switched to a more expensive gaming cafe 😂
@@rearedlogarithm It's extra sad because most of these games were expressly designed in an era where input lag basically wasn't a thing. The CRT almost instantly shows your input when using original hardware. So she really has double or triple latency: non-original hardware, on a modern display, through projected display. God forbid she's using a pro controlled in wired mode! (You heard that right, a switch pro controller in wired mode has more latency than one that's wireless. Nintendon't question it)
so all those nights where we aren't allowed to sleep until she cleared the game could have been cut short if she was using passthrough??
Can't wait to see Korone's true powah!
Korone without input lag is like goku when he takes off his weighted clothing
Piccolo throwing off his giant cape-shoulder-pads and turban
Korone: “You merely adopted the input lag. I was born in it, molded by it”
Sasuga inugami katakuri
Nobody is talking about how Korone is actually going to be like Manabu Itagaki: the initial transition is going to be troublesome because of her prior conditioning, but once it clicks she’s basically be moving in hyper-time lol.
Or like Ippo when he finished his training for the new Dempsey Roll and was so fast that he couldn't gauge the distance properly
Her training arc is over
She's one punch dog now
She even played rhythm games successfully with lag all this time 😮
With rythm games you can learn to press buttons a bit earlier than what is shown on screen. That's not a thing with e.g. fighting games.
@@shinyhappyrem8728N' she's cracked, on JP of all!
Rhythm games have built-in calibration to handle input lag though.
All these years and it was not even her final form. 🤔
That's extremely in character for Korone to have been doing that.
Thanks for the explanation at the ending JShay san
It really depends on the capture card. With a internal capture card (specifically with the Elgato 4k Pro mk2) there's practically no latency difference between what's on OBS vs pass through. This is due to the fact that internal capture cards use PCI. External cards on the other hand use USB and tend to have several entire seconds of latency on OBS.
With the PCIe capturer, you'll be whatever 2 frames is for your monitor behind if the display software is using a standard double buffering scheme with async texture upload. It could be 1 frame if both the GPU and capture card support compatible board-to-board transfers. To get less than that, it needs some kind of genlock. Now if you're monitor is running at 160Hz, you just don't care about 2 frames, because that's half a console frame.
Dear God she is going to be even more powerful now! Next she will start opening the 1st and 2nd gate!
5 years of input lag?! My God...
The doggo is truly built different!
Holy...
That takes me back to my days of recording gameplay and attempting streaming with my old Hauppauge and later Elgato, adding delay to my mic to match the lag BACK IN 2011.
IT'S 2024. KORONE PLEASE 😭🙏🏻
Thx for that last image you added bro ! A nice touch indeed.
ko'ne never ceases to impress.
thank you for adding the simple explanation at the end!
I have to say that is a masterfully composed title, it cut off right after Massive.
Thanks for the explanation at the end!
You're telling me she beat games hard as Kuru Kururin (GBA) or the boss rush from Kirby 64 flawless and played through R-Type and got pretty far in Battletoads all handicapped because she didn't know something as simple as the stream input lag? LMAO. This may be one of the biggest plot twist i've seen. Sasuga gamer doog😅 i still remember when Ame started playing through Mario Odyssey without streaming the screen because she blamed the lag for her constant deaths.
Please don't let Korone get to her full strength, I want to keep the fingers I have left.
Thanks Okayu for the analysis
Love watching this couple play together
As someone that dabbled in streaming in the past. The OBS playback window can induce an input lag of up to 2 seconds and there is nothing you can do about it. Video needs time to encode.
The fact that she's as good as she is with this lag is actually impressive and she would probably need a decent amount of time of training herself out of it.
But, hey, her reflexes are probably insane because of it. Lol
Most humble and eloquent speedrunning explanation I've heard ❤ Okayu is amazing 👏
Sasuga ko'one! Most powerful Doggo on earth
what about mococoeh
As someone who plays league on 200 ping on the normal, i relate to her
Bro, this was me for yeeeears. I got to plat 2 in S5 with that shit. Then Dunkey quit and I quit too.
My god I can't believe she's been doing this all this time.
Once she gets that pass through set up she will truly become a gaming dog god.
I really appreciate the diagram at the end
she's been playing SF6 with this shit BRO
Shes been winning SF6 with that shit xD
okayu rocks so much for this
Oh my god that’s exactly what it felt like when I learned I had ADHD lmao
Keeping up with the input lag for 5 years straight truly is impressive
playing with console lag, surviving all those metroid and retro games, even sonic... it makes sense now sasuga korone
(Playing from the capture preview window)
Oh no. Impressive Koro input compensation.
Korone's a true gamer.
Can't wait to see her full potential!
She's been playing with lag these past 5 years!? And she still managed to beat super difficult games like Battle Toads!? That's actually insane, sasuga our gamer Doggo!! And thank you for showing us the difference between pasthrough and non-passthrough setups at the end!
Having that conversation while consistently nailing an A++ time was just wild to watch.
I remember when I played Smash Ultimate through my OBS as I didn't have a monitor at the time and I couldn't get into Elite Smash no matter how hard I tried. Once I got the 2nd screen, got absolutely wasted, took less than an hour to get in. The fact that she mentioned the Rock Lee scene too reminded me why this is my kamioshi.
She's crazy or maybe just lazy. I can imagine she didn't read instructions or have enough hdmi cables.
Hey, cables are expensive.
/s
I mean if she started with a one monitor setup, it is almost impossible to do, you would have to unplug your monitor while streaming to plug in the pass through and even then if something went wrong on OBS you wouldn't be able to tell, not to mention reading chat or anything.
Korone about to realize she can do 10000 punches before noon when normally it would take an entire day
HxH Netoro reference 😂
It's good that I finished watching Hunter Hunter 2days ago to pick that up lol
I'm no expert, but looking it up, most capture cards introduce an input delay between 2-6 frames at 60fps.
To put that into perspective, for SMB3 where Mario (+P) runs at 3.5 pixels/frame, that means Mario would run 7-21 pixels before an input is received.
Tiles are 16 pixels, so imagine you press the button to jump, and Mario only jumps an entire block later.
It's a big handicap, especially with NES era games that were made with zero-lag analog devices in mind
"Wait, so im amazing?!"
Thats my fav qoute now
We merely adopted input lag. Koro-san was born in it, molded by it.
I love hearing them say borrowed words like Capture Board. So cute~
Cameron from Loading Ready Run played Bloodborne with this kind of input lag for so long he had to completely relearn his muscle memory when they reconfigured their streaming setup.
Nice one with the diagram at the end (:
As someone who's done it the same way as Korone before the input lag is definitely noticable in platformers and such. I'm impressed she never noticed.
Okayu knew this for 5 years and decided to go with the funny option of not telling her until now
She will be unstoppable now ;)
it actually is miserable playing without passthrough
Okayu is very knowledgeable about lag. Smart cat.
"I'm passthrough"
korone's screaming laugh heals my soul
cute okakoro! korone is amazing hologamer too!
Is this gonna be the best super powah moment in Hololive history?! 😂
Dear lord Korone is Pro gamer
We are about to see a level of gameplay from Korone on par with Botan and Doki in FPS’s
Korone has just become even more of a GAMER.
Although, imagine if she _couldn't_ adapt to a lack of lag because she keeps rushing her cues? That'd be a clip for the ages 🤣
I'm gonna need updates I'm invested in this storyline
last time I only play armored core 4a and gt6 without passthru, can't imagine playing with more severe retrogames
The moment she becomes the anime villain dropping the "then isn't this pointless?"
Duuude the cats been in her apartment a million times how could it have taken this long to realise 😭😭😭😭 korone nooooooo
No cap that really explained a lot i mean it all makes sense now
Korone has been adding an extra dose of Nintendo Hard to everything she's ever streamed, including Nintendo.
It should be noted the lag with out pass through isn’t actually that much we are talking milliseconds
I can't believe she's been playing like this all along... I remember when I first started messing with capture cards I was able to immediately feel that input lag and found an active HDMI splitter to mitigate it. Especially for rhythm games it's more complicated when messing with audio because then you want headphones coming straight from the console or monitor instead of being plugged into the PC
Ame was doing the same thing, watching the gameplay of her Switch through OBS instead of going to a TV and it made her Mario Odyssey playthrough from back in the day way more frustrating for her than it needed to be
I actually played Pokemon Unite without passthrough for over a year. Once I played with passthrough it was like night and day.
I've always known she is the best but she keeps raising the bar, its incredible.
bonus points for loving anime, hard to find in america ya.
Korone is such a huge retro gamer I just always assumed she'd done her homework and knew about things like input lag, passthroughs, scaling options, etc. We need to get this girl watching My Life in Gaming and send her a MISTer 😂
Oh, I never really thought to use a splitter to send video to a second display along with the capture card. That makes a lot of sense in hindsight.
This actually explains a lot tbh
Korone hasn't been using even a 10th of her true power xD
or korone just had a beast of a computer that made the imput lag so insignificant that a passtrought would make no difference :0
do you think there are thoughts in that dogs head
2024 is the year Korone takes off her limiters.
the doggo is getting a powerup!!
Oh gosh yeah I'd go bananas if I played off my streaming PC. Guess Koro-san just got to used to it. Might make more sense given all the other gear she's gotta setup for streaming.
thank you for the diagram!