Again, when you say feral+5 trash talent points versus 10 good/average talent points, you are being biased and not factual. Out of those 10 talents there will be filler or 'trash' points. I am definitely nitpicking here but I do this to counter your saying you and your videos are not biased. Again, bias is not a bad word. I hope you can finally recognise this. Or perhaps you are intentionally doing this to generate conversation/controversy. RNG is great only some of the time, which makes them 'as good as' consistent talents, not 'bad' like you say.
30% (Horn) is a good RNG value, 10% (Feral Nature) just isn't. Law of big numbers. Those 10 points can be spent exactly on Counterattack DMG reduction (Buckler Shield) and "Moment of Triumph" on the Conquering tree. Especially for "In-And-Out" battles, do you recognize the value of Moment of Triumph? Guan, Xiang, Nebu… which are mostly the topic of the discussion. All can benefit from those talents. 9% All-Damage Dealt increase + 9% Counterattack DMG decrease. This is HUGE and will give you better results probably 95% of the time compared to Feral Nature. I even gave options to use Feral Nature. I don't think I'm being biased. I'm just expressing my opinion which has later been confirmed by my rage testings. And everything has been checked by many other players, not just myself. And we all came to the same conclusion, independently. That's how we do things. You can't possibly know how many times we tested that and yes, I do respect your opinion and appreciate a lot you commenting, but let me disagree with you. I am very open to learning things I really think that if someone proves me wrong it's a very healthy thing (and I'm not saying it just to be politically correct - I truly mean it), but in this very specific case, I have a complete different POV. But please keep posting your opinions Mark, I really enjoy talking to you. And don't take my being straight-forward as a sign of me being salty because you disagree with me. I value your comments much more than you think, because you keep me in the loop and I always think about other sides of the story. In fact, I'm going to pin your comment up for everyone to read our conversation. I think it will be helpful to many.
In fact, I think it is really good to have different content creators having different opinions and we as viewers can choose which one to trust and follow. I made my decision long time ago, that when it comes to anything related to mechanics of the game I trust Wick the most. If I want to get the intake on the kingdom management, I go to Dragos channel, If I want to understand the mentality of other players I go to Gekko and if I want to know how to screw up the bloodiest KvK in Rok history before it even started I go to Chisgule ;)
I've watched all ur videos and take everything u say into consideration, I even watched Drago's. I still use horn on non support tree commanders but don't go anywhere near Feral nature
I think you're being generous to Drago. He's not just talking about sniping. He's saying feral nature is basically better in every kvk scenario unless you're hitting a Saladin or Ramses or some other commander with large skill damage protection. Because he cherry picked a few 1v1 fights where there were no other rage buffs around and that worked out to be the case and just wants everyone to trust him that it won't be too different in a group fight because you don't know what's gonna happen. Basically, "trust me bro, I have lots of kills and always recommended feral nature". Now he's gonna make a response to your response to his response to your actual analysis 😂 saying "no Wick, I don't snipe, I'm not talking about sniping; you're wrong".
Let's not hate on Drago or Wick or anyone creating content. We all have our Free will to get whatever talents we think are relevant. Just be greatful we have options to enjoy the game more and support everyone.
This is very good. Situations are different for different talents and such. The discussion is healthy. I am a big open field fighter that does hit and run within the huge brawls. In the same way that Dragonthian sorta lumped you into a certain category, you may be lumping hit and runners into a certain category. I literally hit and run within the huge brawls. It is probably hard for someone to picture what I am saying, (you can perhaps appreciate this because Drago sorta has a bit of a hard time picturing you other than an osiris fighter). No, There is a way you can hit and run in those huge brawls. Huge brawls is exactly what I love doing. I have already posted a picture in your discord of an example of my swarming within a huge brawl murderball. Take a closer look at that picture and you will see that there is plenty of room for a person to do the hit and run. In that picture, I literally am swarming someone who got too deep into our side of the territory. When I hit and run, I am right in the middle of the huge brawls. I am not hiding in cities and cheezing. I don't blame you for the temptation to lump all hit and runners into the cheeser category, but that is not the only way to hit and run. : ) In fact, I hate city jumping cheezing. It is hard to rack up large numbers of kills city jumping. City cheezing is boring af. But, in the end, it has to come down to this: I understand my style, and I appreciate the information and data provided by all the great CC (content makers). And because I understand my style, I know how and where to apply the knowledge to suit what I need. So, it is highly appreciated. Your data, and information helps me make well-informed decisions in choosing or not choosing Feral Nature/and or Horn. And I love it all.!
Hi: how are you. great discussion: in the end, the data presented and the healthy discussion on the topic is enriching. I feel fortunate because I feel I have a handle on my style of play and thus can apply the knowledge in a practical way. With the recent deepening of our overall knowledge on this topic, rage, I have been able to further clarify my style and the necessary accompanying talents and equipments. So, this has been highly appreciated. More than ever, I understand why and how I go about doing what I do, which has led to success on the field. We have all been enriched in this process. Thank you.
Wick is just being nice even though i find drago is an idiot to comment on wick's rage video.. Drago can simply just make his content and not mention Wick in the video.
@@ajaxloh7567 drago can do what he wants! Same as wick! I’m personally happy drago put his take because I only care about kvk scenarios cause open field is where all the funs at😈. Ark open field isn’t as fun to me since how you win is by taking structures. And those kills count for nothing towards stats! I love seeing my stats go up 🤣😅
I enjoy the open discussions between content creators, now I think about every aspects of the battles from de equipment to the right build, thanks for this video, I love to see such a passionate subject bringing better quality to everyone's game live. Thank you 2 ♡
i personally still like feral nature because for most of the comanders having your skill damage go out faster then the ennemy's is worth having because casting your active skill earlier has in my opinion more or less the same value no matter how long the fight lasts even if its only 10percent chance and even if i lose some stats
That first cycle is a very important cycle. Battles are short. Skirmishes, even in a huge brawl is short. It is the modern day fighting style. Things are dynamic. Drago has shown this in his brawl videos. It is not a good fighting style to just stand there and trade blows until your army is completely demolished. So, movement and maneuvering is king. And first cycles are important cycles.
Hi wick, have Watched both video. I agree with u about the field fight in kvk. Normally the hit and run are usually the losing kingdom in kvk. Especially when the winning team went into their territory in number, the losing kingdom will adopt the hit and run strategy.
Sorry for out of topic, what commander do i must spend the epic sculpture at the beginning of the game? I choose boudica civil and got baibars, should i spend the sculpture on baibars first or boudica? Ill max the sun tzu after expertising boudica and baibars 😄
Really dislike calling out someone because of different views and playing for longer time doesn't mean they're better🤷♂️ I still personally prefer proof and facts over "human" factor.
I have 1080 universal heads. I have 5551 saladine and full takeda. Which commanders should I spend the universal heads on? ( XY CHANDRA or WILLIAM or ATİLLA ) I am f2p player and ı join crystal kvk
Thanks Wick! I like your viewpoint... I think I will craft the dagger for my first legendary accessory. And my 4th silent trial instead of any delanes.
Variety is the spice of life …I’m happy to have different advice from content creators then make my decisions based on that ..if all of you had the same opinions and strategy something would be wrong and very boring ..keep up the great work and I appreciate the different views on these issues 👍
Appreciate your analytical take. Also like that none of the content creators hate. Every creator has different view based on spend, who they use and how they like to play the game. Wish some of the commenters on the channels understood that. 😂
Hit and run, chesse burgering Lol call it what you want but its part of the game and has been since day 1. Me personally I kill everything I see and in every way possible as long as I trade positive. Getting better trades is what wins wars
Getting good trades is only one part of winning wars, you need to be getting good trades at the largest scale, at a kingdom level, not only player level. You are getting good trades in a melee because the enemy is not directly focusing your march while you're hitting his with full force. But you need to consider the damage at the team level, your damage + your mate who tanks + your mates who are supporting with their marches, etc. ...VS the damage the other side endures, and then conclude which one wins the trade. Take an example with the previous HA of 1855v1916v1846v1415 (and their respective allies): individually at gates Fleisch doing hit and run was having stellar trades, but his mates were dying all around him, rhony the same openfielding in KL, even Drago in z5 with 1916 was having good trade individually but had no whales around to support the f2p that got washed away in 1v1 versus 1846. They lost on the numbers, because 1846 plays united as a kingdom but also played well coordinated with their allies. When you look at a rally report, you look at the trades of the rally VS the flag, but also consider the damages it does to openfield march hit in aoe. Good trade is a relative measure of success, you always need more context to evaluate it, I think
@@celestialdiscord2716 ikr but need to kick open doors when someone goes "I kill everything as long as I have good trades". Well you might but if all your mates around you get trashed, guess what, you don't. And I think that's quite the indirect point Wick is making opting out Feral talent: maybe some individual players controlling their environment (meaning playing solo, out of the murder ball maybe?) could benefit from it, compensating with skills, equipment, balanced pairing /support marches to avoid overraging, but kvk is a team play, a very chaotic team game and if you openfield in murder balls listening to leader voice call as 99% of successful kingdoms do, then you better spend those talent point elsewhere. (Imo)
But every murder ball in kvk is hit and run… if they focus you, u need to drag them back to your team… and if your team focus a target, it will disappear almost immediately or they run away so u will have to pull back or switch target in order not to stretch out your murder ball and keep the formation … it always a short fights… so u can’t really categorize the kvk fights into "big fights" or hit and run fights….I mean u won’t gonna hit someone for 1min like in rallies or test reports… it lasts seconds… like 3-5 seconds mostly. And believe me u will get lucky during these short fights… because the number of tries is almost infinite in these kind of fights.
If your every fights only last 3-5 seconds in murder ball untill they targeted you, something is very wrong. You might be using Scipio or Lohar or Boudica as primary commander.
@@klausheinz5066 i feel like youre in a very low tier kd which there arent that much players to fight , in big fights there will be at least 100 marches and if you get dragged there and 50 of them target you youll disappear in a few seconds , think twice man👍
exactly! there is no such thing as a just stand there and take hits murderball. That is a recipe for losing. Drago talks about this in his videos. So, both Drago and Wick know what they are talking about, but could use more knowledge of what each other is talking about : )
cant get why when content creators are having a freindly discussion to each other everyone will attack them and start trash talking them, guys no ones going to give you a gold medal for saying bad things about wick or drago , grow up please
I do both. It depends on the situation. If we're losing, I'll hit and run and then bring more marches out and smash all day. Marches don't want to be near my city 🤣 I think the way I fight is pretty much exactly the same as drago's though I don't use feral nature but do have a lot of rage buffing and horns. Smash the enemy in the first 10 turns... i do like a rage insurance policy even if the cost is some waste. I think Drago is right in that there's way too much the average player can't control. If your trajan gets smashed quickly, you've lost the rage buff you count on in your builds, for example. And that would suck. I think that's the one thing you don't account for and the math really breaks down. I do like his early battle advantage idea but that strategy goes away fast because if you're switching targets quickly in a murderball, you don't simply restart your rage cycle. Not to mention if you compromise march speed by getting feral nature, you lose seconds of battle from travel time. And now the chances of rage overheating becomes a serious issue and I think he is underestimating that big time. Ultimately, I think feral nature is not good for really prolonged fights/ murderballs unless maybe you have no other sources for rage.
I agree to Wick on Feral Nature, is better to use those 10 talents somewhere else to have more sustain on the battlefield. About movements on skirmishes and murderballs in kvk: Even when you hit and run you need to try to target some other march before your rage is lost while you retreat. You do it over and over again, picking the most out of position target till you are with yellow health. Then go home and refresh. If you are not trying to keep your rage bar on all the time then you are playing wrong. PS: I still need to see a report showing the effect of Silent Trials. I cant take your word that its affect after the rage cap till I see the report.
@@WickGaming You showed it with Amanitore reduce rage skill. Is not the same. Equipments could work different. Im thinking as a software developer. Commander skills could affect after cap and equipment could affect before cap.
Poll: What is worse? overraging or underraging? The answer will reveal if you are a bad@$$ field fighter or a noob. If you are a bad@$$ field fighter, you understand underraging is bad. If you are a noob, you think . . . "I am scared to overrage." boom. discussion and topic clarified. case closed.
Mmmh, it’s not that straightforward. It’s not about being scared or not 😂 it’s about the case, like I have described in this video. Are you garrisoning? Rallying? Open field with a support commander and 3 points on the dumbest talent ever (rejuvenate)? Every situation has a different perspective. I gave my perspectives in a very detailed manner. Everyone is of course free to choose his or her own options… :)
Hey there, not sure if this has been discussed already, but what about Sun Tzu's active skill? It is said he will get 50 rage per each target hit by his aoe, up to 250 rage. Since we are already getting base rage + talents + support commanders buffs, does this mean that this part of Sun Tzu's skill is just pretty much useless? I mean, it would be the same hitting 2 or 5 marches with this commander's aoe, if I'm not wrong?
Hello!Any chance to get a new cavalery commander?I saw that Gilga Nebu is doing a hell good damage against combo like Guan Cheok or Guan Leonidas,even AT or Xy Chandra had difficult in defeat him.
@@lrdphntm9865 Ok!I saw two leadership commander will come in rok Honda and Suleiman. For curiosity a leadership commander as a secondary with Saladin will be useful in open field?
It seems to me as if two people are sitting opposite each other and look at the same number, one of them says its number 6 and the other one says its number 9 (it all depends on the angle you look at it)
I think 80% of KVK fighting is hit and run fighting for anyone other than big spenders. I've been in multiple KVKs with different kingdoms, all pretty similar fighting. Maybe its different now with the top imperium kingdoms, but my previous experience was in and with imperium kingdoms in KVK, and the fighting style was the same.
I know a lot of players who have high kill count because all they do is snipe wounded units but during key fights for objectives. They are nowhere to be found. Some players make fun of my low KP but they are usually the ones who put too much cheese on the burger.
GUYS SIMPLE,WICK IS THE ONLY content creator that is SPECIFIC WITH CALCULATIONS,if he say is like this its like this drago is simple talk like chisgule they dont know the nitty gritty of the game,wick is where my coins are going If no one has done any testings of his own,the smartest thing is to trust the guy that did,not baseless arguments against and for.i have not tested i cant be bothered to test and like 99% of you will make an educated guess,wick is simply the closest to accuracy in this matter
Omg... seriously 10% chance does not mean 1 battle on 10 when you do 10 seconds per battle!! Learn to use math... (at 4:54 in the video... he even said: that's just basic math) +5% of 50 is not equal to 55 (equipment guide vidéo) and idk how many math absurdity you say😭 (But on the bright side you made me laugh when you said at 5:10 : yes i know I'm a lot into numbers, but numbers always gave me the results i wanted) Ps guan agrumemt at 4:20 is wrong (if you want details why comment under)
I SLIPPED XD I meant 1 time every 10 seconds OF COURSE, I said it multiple times in the Feral Nature video. Cmon man, picking two slips in 150 videos!!! Give me a break lol
Thx, for taking care of it, i know a lot of people who will believe you without thinking by themselves… i had an hour of conversation with my kingdom’s members to try to explain that you f*ed up and 50 damage +5% in not equal to 55 damage… Idk if i was just unlucky, but 3 errors on the last 3 videos i saw of your channel is stating to accumulate 😓(that’s why i was (and still am) a bit annoyed)
I cant agree more...ive seen players who only do hits and runs...mostly from their city...sure you get good trades but that definitely wont give you a kvk win...and above all its boring af...i cant believe anyone actualy enjoys fighting like that 🤷♂️
Not sure you understand much about kvk open fields. In kvk, most ppl retreat at yellow health or getting swarmed, doesn’t matter if ur winning or losing, so there is a lot more movements unlike ark. This also means u generate reports every 10-30s and ur rage resets when out of combat. This is why drago says feral could be better in kvk.
Hit and run, I guess depends on the commander you are using and when you apply this I'm a 🦄🦆 technique, when you're outnumbered or for example Khan is a nuker but made of paper and an automatic target... so best thing for Khan is hit and run when engaged. At the end hit and run is irrelevant almost on any fight and city jumpers should literally quit the game for good.🥲
Please with your definitive knowledge on how rage works. Can you show us that speed of rage gained is a scam. I only feel the effects of additive rage like Joan buff. How can speed of rage gained increase when we can only attack once per second? Please I would like a video on this. If you can. thanks
Respectfully I disagree with you opinion on murder balls. In my opinion you are constantly switching targets. Examples are if an opponent gets melted or pulls back into their murder ball in an attempt to pull you out of position.Under those circumstances you have to move to different targets. That happens over and over again. Therefore the hit and run scenario you describe plays out over and over again within a murder ball..I’m not trolling I really enjoy your videos. I just disagree
Yup, I understand both your points of view. But even in that case, there are 3/4 seconds delay off the target before the battle stop and your rage accumulation is lost. Sometimes even more if there are buffers around. Chances are that wether or not you switch targets, you will still keep the previous rage accumulation, therefore not needing those talents to proc earlier
Even then you cannot escape the 220 point cap. Therefore use your horn on commanders with no feral nature so their fiest skill can be optimized in your murderball and use feral on rage engine commanders and add a silent trial with expertise or a ring of doom. The horn is not for every commander. That is the result of the testing.
Wick does an excellent job reverse engineering how rage works in great detail. The debate here stems from the fact that the conclusions drawn by either Wick or Drago are not one size fits all. In KvK Drago's advice will apply to max tech players running 5-7 high damage field marches where most battles end quickly with their opponent dying (resetting your rage), while a lower spender running 2-3 field marches will likely see longer battles, switching targets more and maintaining rage. Fighting style and skill also comes into play. Nobody is "right" or "wrong", both conclusions are valid in different situations. Viewers, always keep in mind the perspectives presented and how they relate to you! Thanks Wick and Drago for the great content.
Number is not always the right way to analyze the senario. (Then why you doesn't show your result?) BTW if you just go run to enemy with your march without going back you will lose im 100% sure about that. Why they use hit and run most of the Time? answer is Territory Buff and ADVANTAGE on positioning. BTW your s number guy right? do you think most of the players playing ROK meet the Rage Cap?
dear drago and wick: I am literally the only person who understands both of what you guys are saying. Thx. Don't believe me? just read the toxic comments below. Cheers. oh. btw, keep up the good work : )
As i've said previously, 99% of players dont have an account worth implementing every one percent(1%er in the game. I xan take the best player in the game and find flaws in their play and builds because i have been playing online games for 28years and have been using these formulas before most were born. Whats the point? You need a kingdom united, not a strong/flawless account to win kvk. Community turning into toxic dota/lol/cod community. Stats>facts. If you got a flawlwss account build wise and youre not pkaying wow/'new world /diablo/mmo. No1 will notice/care
This is ridiculous. Drago really getting desperate for content. Lol. Like "horn and feral nature good to give 3k sev wound and you only get 2k" lol. Gimme a break
I am very confused about this statement you made: "if you stay ten seconds in a battle; and you do ten battles like that, feral nature will activate one time out of the ten times." This is not correct. Perhaps you meant to say that if you stay in a battle ten seconds, one of those seconds (on average) will see an activation of feral nature, in which case, out of ten ten-second battles, you will see an average of ten activations of feral nature. I mean this is so obvious, I can't see how you could miss that . . . with all due respect : )
@@WickGaming Ok : ) on the words used in the video, the words were "in ten battles, it will activate one time" I think it was misspoken : ) I agree that you would not miss something like that. But, the words that were recorded said it that way, which is inccorect. I just listened to it again to make sure I am not mistaken.
One more time, 10% of 10 = 1 every time. So, 10% of 10 battles is still 1 meaning that your feral nature only activates once per battle and each battle lasting 10 seconds. Pretty substandard
Again, when you say feral+5 trash talent points versus 10 good/average talent points, you are being biased and not factual. Out of those 10 talents there will be filler or 'trash' points. I am definitely nitpicking here but I do this to counter your saying you and your videos are not biased. Again, bias is not a bad word. I hope you can finally recognise this. Or perhaps you are intentionally doing this to generate conversation/controversy.
RNG is great only some of the time, which makes them 'as good as' consistent talents, not 'bad' like you say.
30% (Horn) is a good RNG value, 10% (Feral Nature) just isn't. Law of big numbers. Those 10 points can be spent exactly on Counterattack DMG reduction (Buckler Shield) and "Moment of Triumph" on the Conquering tree. Especially for "In-And-Out" battles, do you recognize the value of Moment of Triumph? Guan, Xiang, Nebu… which are mostly the topic of the discussion. All can benefit from those talents. 9% All-Damage Dealt increase + 9% Counterattack DMG decrease. This is HUGE and will give you better results probably 95% of the time compared to Feral Nature. I even gave options to use Feral Nature. I don't think I'm being biased. I'm just expressing my opinion which has later been confirmed by my rage testings. And everything has been checked by many other players, not just myself. And we all came to the same conclusion, independently. That's how we do things. You can't possibly know how many times we tested that and yes, I do respect your opinion and appreciate a lot you commenting, but let me disagree with you. I am very open to learning things I really think that if someone proves me wrong it's a very healthy thing (and I'm not saying it just to be politically correct - I truly mean it), but in this very specific case, I have a complete different POV. But please keep posting your opinions Mark, I really enjoy talking to you. And don't take my being straight-forward as a sign of me being salty because you disagree with me. I value your comments much more than you think, because you keep me in the loop and I always think about other sides of the story. In fact, I'm going to pin your comment up for everyone to read our conversation. I think it will be helpful to many.
@@WickGaming your scientific mindset to testing and discussions is very admirable. I wish everyone had your open minded but evidenced led approach.
Wick can you show me your talent tree with moment of triumph and buckler shield pls on Guan. Appreciate it boss
@@rooney197855 it's in the video :) the one shown!
@@WickGaming Thanks sorry was listening rather than watching .
Just a chill quick video today. I hope you appreciate me just talking about stuff from time to time. Join our discord.gg/wickgaming !
We need to add the Arabic translation
Is it good that I have Scolas Lucky Coin and a bit better Inf stat equipment then your Guan has on us F2P player? I also have procked Hope Cloak
"If kvk was a hit and run game"... then Fleisch would've won his last HA for 1415 🤭
Hey! How are you?😄
@@tsarski1 oh well, familiar name! I'm good and you? Still on kd1515?
Don’t forget the city popping champion legend rhony!
@@camillehensley4457 nope, I'm in 862. Was hoping to see you this kvk buuuut Lilith didn't register your kingdom🥺
@@camillehensley4457 cameeeeelll
In fact, I think it is really good to have different content creators having different opinions and we as viewers can choose which one to trust and follow. I made my decision long time ago, that when it comes to anything related to mechanics of the game I trust Wick the most. If I want to get the intake on the kingdom management, I go to Dragos channel, If I want to understand the mentality of other players I go to Gekko and if I want to know how to screw up the bloodiest KvK in Rok history before it even started I go to Chisgule ;)
I've watched all ur videos and take everything u say into consideration, I even watched Drago's. I still use horn on non support tree commanders but don't go anywhere near Feral nature
i really appreicate wicks calm attitude and fact-based analysis but this is just like discussing with a 5 y o xD
I think you're being generous to Drago. He's not just talking about sniping. He's saying feral nature is basically better in every kvk scenario unless you're hitting a Saladin or Ramses or some other commander with large skill damage protection. Because he cherry picked a few 1v1 fights where there were no other rage buffs around and that worked out to be the case and just wants everyone to trust him that it won't be too different in a group fight because you don't know what's gonna happen. Basically, "trust me bro, I have lots of kills and always recommended feral nature". Now he's gonna make a response to your response to his response to your actual analysis 😂 saying "no Wick, I don't snipe, I'm not talking about sniping; you're wrong".
its simple, Drago don't have brain, always "im always right hurr durr" mentality, not to mention sponsored and pay to win shit
@@diegozinedine514 hes american right? ofc hes not that smart :D
@@Maxnotcry lolololol, forgot to poin out that one, Americans always have the sense that they are the best at EVERYTHING in this world, 'MURICAAA haha
@@diegozinedine514 i guess your the icing on that cake hahahahaha 😆
@@diegozinedine514 I can't believe ppl watch him and listen to advise he gives.😢 if aint wick certified, don't trust it.
Let's not hate on Drago or Wick or anyone creating content. We all have our Free will to get whatever talents we think are relevant. Just be greatful we have options to enjoy the game more and support everyone.
This is very good. Situations are different for different talents and such. The discussion is healthy. I am a big open field fighter that does hit and run within the huge brawls. In the same way that Dragonthian sorta lumped you into a certain category, you may be lumping hit and runners into a certain category. I literally hit and run within the huge brawls. It is probably hard for someone to picture what I am saying, (you can perhaps appreciate this because Drago sorta has a bit of a hard time picturing you other than an osiris fighter). No, There is a way you can hit and run in those huge brawls. Huge brawls is exactly what I love doing. I have already posted a picture in your discord of an example of my swarming within a huge brawl murderball. Take a closer look at that picture and you will see that there is plenty of room for a person to do the hit and run. In that picture, I literally am swarming someone who got too deep into our side of the territory. When I hit and run, I am right in the middle of the huge brawls. I am not hiding in cities and cheezing. I don't blame you for the temptation to lump all hit and runners into the cheeser category, but that is not the only way to hit and run. : ) In fact, I hate city jumping cheezing. It is hard to rack up large numbers of kills city jumping. City cheezing is boring af. But, in the end, it has to come down to this: I understand my style, and I appreciate the information and data provided by all the great CC (content makers). And because I understand my style, I know how and where to apply the knowledge to suit what I need. So, it is highly appreciated. Your data, and information helps me make well-informed decisions in choosing or not choosing Feral Nature/and or Horn. And I love it all.!
Hi: how are you. great discussion: in the end, the data presented and the healthy discussion on the topic is enriching. I feel fortunate because I feel I have a handle on my style of play and thus can apply the knowledge in a practical way. With the recent deepening of our overall knowledge on this topic, rage, I have been able to further clarify my style and the necessary accompanying talents and equipments. So, this has been highly appreciated. More than ever, I understand why and how I go about doing what I do, which has led to success on the field. We have all been enriched in this process. Thank you.
and here i was hoping wick would be doing some drama with drago calling him an idiot and so on. but i guess wick is just too good to do that :(
Wick is just being nice even though i find drago is an idiot to comment on wick's rage video.. Drago can simply just make his content and not mention Wick in the video.
@@ajaxloh7567 drago can do what he wants! Same as wick! I’m personally happy drago put his take because I only care about kvk scenarios cause open field is where all the funs at😈. Ark open field isn’t as fun to me since how you win is by taking structures. And those kills count for nothing towards stats! I love seeing my stats go up 🤣😅
Wick is too nice, really.
@@ajaxloh7567 Better to shut doubts than to leave them unanswered
This “RAGE” thing is getting deeper that we analyze. Wick you rock. LoL
Most of the time Hit and run strategy are for losing kingdom in kvk
I enjoy the open discussions between content creators, now I think about every aspects of the battles from de equipment to the right build, thanks for this video, I love to see such a passionate subject bringing better quality to everyone's game live. Thank you 2 ♡
Welcome aboard Wick ! Im glad you finish your work sooner than i expected 😁
i personally still like feral nature because for most of the comanders having your skill damage go out faster then the ennemy's is worth having because casting your active skill earlier has in my opinion more or less the same value no matter how long the fight lasts even if its only 10percent chance and even if i lose some stats
Exactly... The faster you use your first skill the better
Yes, not only for the damage, but the effects are really important for having that earlier skill and faster cycles.
Unless you have horn accesory, you still needs feral nature.
That first cycle is a very important cycle. Battles are short. Skirmishes, even in a huge brawl is short. It is the modern day fighting style. Things are dynamic. Drago has shown this in his brawl videos. It is not a good fighting style to just stand there and trade blows until your army is completely demolished. So, movement and maneuvering is king. And first cycles are important cycles.
Hi wick, have Watched both video. I agree with u about the field fight in kvk. Normally the hit and run are usually the losing kingdom in kvk. Especially when the winning team went into their territory in number, the losing kingdom will adopt the hit and run strategy.
Sorry for out of topic, what commander do i must spend the epic sculpture at the beginning of the game? I choose boudica civil and got baibars, should i spend the sculpture on baibars first or boudica? Ill max the sun tzu after expertising boudica and baibars 😄
Wick. You really need to redo talent tree videos for the commanders after these rage finding. Do it for the community please!
Really dislike calling out someone because of different views and playing for longer time doesn't mean they're better🤷♂️ I still personally prefer proof and facts over "human" factor.
I have 1080 universal heads. I have 5551 saladine and full takeda. Which commanders should I spend the universal heads on? ( XY CHANDRA or WILLIAM or ATİLLA ) I am f2p player and ı join crystal kvk
We need controlled trials to compare Guan yu both w and wo feral nature, as well as w and wo HoF.👍
Thanks Wick! I like your viewpoint... I think I will craft the dagger for my first legendary accessory. And my 4th silent trial instead of any delanes.
also the people who disliked the video probably wanted to see drama but they didnt get it
Variety is the spice of life …I’m happy to have different advice from content creators then make my decisions based on that ..if all of you had the same opinions and strategy something would be wrong and very boring ..keep up the great work and I appreciate the different views on these issues 👍
Appreciate your analytical take. Also like that none of the content creators hate. Every creator has different view based on spend, who they use and how they like to play the game. Wish some of the commenters on the channels understood that. 😂
Hit and run, chesse burgering Lol call it what you want but its part of the game and has been since day 1. Me personally I kill everything I see and in every way possible as long as I trade positive. Getting better trades is what wins wars
Getting good trades is only one part of winning wars, you need to be getting good trades at the largest scale, at a kingdom level, not only player level. You are getting good trades in a melee because the enemy is not directly focusing your march while you're hitting his with full force. But you need to consider the damage at the team level, your damage + your mate who tanks + your mates who are supporting with their marches, etc. ...VS the damage the other side endures, and then conclude which one wins the trade. Take an example with the previous HA of 1855v1916v1846v1415 (and their respective allies): individually at gates Fleisch doing hit and run was having stellar trades, but his mates were dying all around him, rhony the same openfielding in KL, even Drago in z5 with 1916 was having good trade individually but had no whales around to support the f2p that got washed away in 1v1 versus 1846. They lost on the numbers, because 1846 plays united as a kingdom but also played well coordinated with their allies. When you look at a rally report, you look at the trades of the rally VS the flag, but also consider the damages it does to openfield march hit in aoe. Good trade is a relative measure of success, you always need more context to evaluate it, I think
@@camillehensley4457 best knowledgeable answer I’ve seen 👍🏻✅
@@snakeeaterahmed6107 More like obvious answer.
@@celestialdiscord2716 I know man right
@@celestialdiscord2716 ikr but need to kick open doors when someone goes "I kill everything as long as I have good trades". Well you might but if all your mates around you get trashed, guess what, you don't. And I think that's quite the indirect point Wick is making opting out Feral talent: maybe some individual players controlling their environment (meaning playing solo, out of the murder ball maybe?) could benefit from it, compensating with skills, equipment, balanced pairing /support marches to avoid overraging, but kvk is a team play, a very chaotic team game and if you openfield in murder balls listening to leader voice call as 99% of successful kingdoms do, then you better spend those talent point elsewhere. (Imo)
But every murder ball in kvk is hit and run… if they focus you, u need to drag them back to your team… and if your team focus a target, it will disappear almost immediately or they run away so u will have to pull back or switch target in order not to stretch out your murder ball and keep the formation … it always a short fights… so u can’t really categorize the kvk fights into "big fights" or hit and run fights….I mean u won’t gonna hit someone for 1min like in rallies or test reports… it lasts seconds… like 3-5 seconds mostly.
And believe me u will get lucky during these short fights… because the number of tries is almost infinite in these kind of fights.
If your every fights only last 3-5 seconds in murder ball untill they targeted you, something is very wrong. You might be using Scipio or Lohar or Boudica as primary commander.
@@klausheinz5066 I feel I don't want to waste my time asking you what kind of drugs you took when u reached to that conclusion...
@@klausheinz5066 i feel like youre in a very low tier kd which there arent that much players to fight , in big fights there will be at least 100 marches and if you get dragged there and 50 of them target you youll disappear in a few seconds , think twice man👍
Hence why insta procs are so valuable
exactly! there is no such thing as a just stand there and take hits murderball. That is a recipe for losing. Drago talks about this in his videos. So, both Drago and Wick know what they are talking about, but could use more knowledge of what each other is talking about : )
cant get why when content creators are having a freindly discussion to each other everyone will attack them and start trash talking them, guys no ones going to give you a gold medal for saying bad things about wick or drago , grow up please
I do both. It depends on the situation. If we're losing, I'll hit and run and then bring more marches out and smash all day. Marches don't want to be near my city 🤣 I think the way I fight is pretty much exactly the same as drago's though I don't use feral nature but do have a lot of rage buffing and horns. Smash the enemy in the first 10 turns... i do like a rage insurance policy even if the cost is some waste. I think Drago is right in that there's way too much the average player can't control. If your trajan gets smashed quickly, you've lost the rage buff you count on in your builds, for example. And that would suck. I think that's the one thing you don't account for and the math really breaks down. I do like his early battle advantage idea but that strategy goes away fast because if you're switching targets quickly in a murderball, you don't simply restart your rage cycle. Not to mention if you compromise march speed by getting feral nature, you lose seconds of battle from travel time. And now the chances of rage overheating becomes a serious issue and I think he is underestimating that big time. Ultimately, I think feral nature is not good for really prolonged fights/ murderballs unless maybe you have no other sources for rage.
I agree to Wick on Feral Nature, is better to use those 10 talents somewhere else to have more sustain on the battlefield.
About movements on skirmishes and murderballs in kvk: Even when you hit and run you need to try to target some other march before your rage is lost while you retreat. You do it over and over again, picking the most out of position target till you are with yellow health. Then go home and refresh.
If you are not trying to keep your rage bar on all the time then you are playing wrong.
PS: I still need to see a report showing the effect of Silent Trials. I cant take your word that its affect after the rage cap till I see the report.
I showed that already. Rage reduction effects are post cap. Check previous vids
@@WickGaming You showed it with Amanitore reduce rage skill. Is not the same. Equipments could work different. Im thinking as a software developer. Commander skills could affect after cap and equipment could affect before cap.
byebyebye's take on the rage subject is hilarious...
He has 0 knowledge on the game tbh, not trying to be rude
But he was the first to discover the over rage issue tho.
@@kinggames4668 id say 1 more than 0.. Anyone can follow a party of whales for 3yrs and gain nice stats if you have time and invite.
@@babyrico91 first to publish not first to know.
Does being hit by things like ysg AOE trigger the addition 16 rage or is it just when focused
It isn’t neither attack nor counterattack so no
Poll: What is worse? overraging or underraging? The answer will reveal if you are a bad@$$ field fighter or a noob. If you are a bad@$$ field fighter, you understand underraging is bad. If you are a noob, you think . . . "I am scared to overrage." boom. discussion and topic clarified. case closed.
Mmmh, it’s not that straightforward. It’s not about being scared or not 😂 it’s about the case, like I have described in this video. Are you garrisoning? Rallying? Open field with a support commander and 3 points on the dumbest talent ever (rejuvenate)? Every situation has a different perspective. I gave my perspectives in a very detailed manner. Everyone is of course free to choose his or her own options… :)
@@WickGaming oh : ) just pure open field kvk all out war. Specifically. : ) The only war that really matters where the stakes are pretty high.
Hey there, not sure if this has been discussed already, but what about Sun Tzu's active skill? It is said he will get 50 rage per each target hit by his aoe, up to 250 rage. Since we are already getting base rage + talents + support commanders buffs, does this mean that this part of Sun Tzu's skill is just pretty much useless? I mean, it would be the same hitting 2 or 5 marches with this commander's aoe, if I'm not wrong?
Yes, part of that skill will be wasted.
When you’ve done your homework and being competent.
Ladies and gentlemen, presenting yo you, Wick Gaming
Hello!Any chance to get a new cavalery commander?I saw that Gilga Nebu is doing a hell good damage against combo like Guan Cheok or Guan Leonidas,even AT or Xy Chandra had difficult in defeat him.
They will come after Leadership
@@lrdphntm9865 Ok!I saw two leadership commander will come in rok Honda and Suleiman.
For curiosity a leadership commander as a secondary with Saladin will be useful in open field?
It seems to me as if two people are sitting opposite each other and look at the same number, one of them says its number 6 and the other one says its number 9 (it all depends on the angle you look at it)
We need talent builds for skill dmg coms ( especially guan ) after this vid :( :)
Check discord
Guys, dont be too upset if you have feral nature or horn of fury. I believe more rage reduction skill its coming
Just how deep does the rabbit hole go. Red / blue pill etc. (Mulan GIF) 🤣
I think 80% of KVK fighting is hit and run fighting for anyone other than big spenders. I've been in multiple KVKs with different kingdoms, all pretty similar fighting. Maybe its different now with the top imperium kingdoms, but my previous experience was in and with imperium kingdoms in KVK, and the fighting style was the same.
I know a lot of players who have high kill count because all they do is snipe wounded units but during key fights for objectives. They are nowhere to be found. Some players make fun of my low KP but they are usually the ones who put too much cheese on the burger.
Keep going dude!! And I like your classy approach 💪🏼🤘🏼FORZA WICK!!
But i the all dmg for 10 seconds really that usefull for long fights? Like I thought about it otherwise.
GUYS SIMPLE,WICK IS THE ONLY content creator that is SPECIFIC WITH CALCULATIONS,if he say is like this its like this drago is simple talk like chisgule they dont know the nitty gritty of the game,wick is where my coins are going
If no one has done any testings of his own,the smartest thing is to trust the guy that did,not baseless arguments against and for.i have not tested i cant be bothered to test and like 99% of you will make an educated guess,wick is simply the closest to accuracy in this matter
Dude this wasn’t about the calculations. The discussed topic wasn’t tested by either sides
Broo.. u made other content creators afraid of losing thier viewers lol
Keep the good work bro u r the best
Omg... seriously 10% chance does not mean 1 battle on 10 when you do 10 seconds per battle!! Learn to use math... (at 4:54 in the video... he even said: that's just basic math)
+5% of 50 is not equal to 55 (equipment guide vidéo) and idk how many math absurdity you say😭
(But on the bright side you made me laugh when you said at 5:10 : yes i know I'm a lot into numbers, but numbers always gave me the results i wanted)
Ps guan agrumemt at 4:20 is wrong (if you want details why comment under)
I SLIPPED XD I meant 1 time every 10 seconds OF COURSE, I said it multiple times in the Feral Nature video. Cmon man, picking two slips in 150 videos!!! Give me a break lol
Can’t believe that you are picking on an obvious exchange of words.
I'm just gonna cut out that part, so you're happy :)
10% of 10 is still 1. 1 miserable activation in 10 seconds. Waaaaaaste.
Thx, for taking care of it, i know a lot of people who will believe you without thinking by themselves… i had an hour of conversation with my kingdom’s members to try to explain that you f*ed up and 50 damage +5% in not equal to 55 damage…
Idk if i was just unlucky, but 3 errors on the last 3 videos i saw of your channel is stating to accumulate 😓(that’s why i was (and still am) a bit annoyed)
Good I was worried I wouldn't b seeing wick's vids for a week
This is best in hunting those cavs who hunt farms love it wick ❤️
Wick Gaming is very smart guy.
I cant agree more...ive seen players who only do hits and runs...mostly from their city...sure you get good trades but that definitely wont give you a kvk win...and above all its boring af...i cant believe anyone actualy enjoys fighting like that 🤷♂️
Thanks for being here and expressing your opinion. I appreciate that.
@@WickGaming thank you for amazing work you do and help us understand the mechanics much better 👍👍
Thx for your content:) I prefer beeing a garrison leaderx)
Big openfield.... Fight till the death
I would say Feral Nature is must have for Guan only because of hes Aoe silence.
Not sure you understand much about kvk open fields. In kvk, most ppl retreat at yellow health or getting swarmed, doesn’t matter if ur winning or losing, so there is a lot more movements unlike ark. This also means u generate reports every 10-30s and ur rage resets when out of combat. This is why drago says feral could be better in kvk.
I read you and I accept the critique :)
I felt u were going on a little break?
🙂
Tomorrow!
Hit and run, I guess depends on the commander you are using and when you apply this I'm a 🦄🦆 technique, when you're outnumbered or for example Khan is a nuker but made of paper and an automatic target... so best thing for Khan is hit and run when engaged. At the end hit and run is irrelevant almost on any fight and city jumpers should literally quit the game for good.🥲
Please with your definitive knowledge on how rage works. Can you show us that speed of rage gained is a scam. I only feel the effects of additive rage like Joan buff. How can speed of rage gained increase when we can only attack once per second? Please I would like a video on this. If you can. thanks
Hey, it’s not a “speed” in time, but rather in points acquired. Example: if you get 100 rage and you have a 20% speed, you will get 120
Não esqueça do público Brasileiro, coloque as legendas pls! Abraço
Respectfully I disagree with you opinion on murder balls. In my opinion you are constantly switching targets. Examples are if an opponent gets melted or pulls back into their murder ball in an attempt to pull you out of position.Under those circumstances you have to move to different targets. That happens over and over again. Therefore the hit and run scenario you describe plays out over and over again within a murder ball..I’m not trolling I really enjoy your videos. I just disagree
This is a one paragraph summary of my video
Yup, I understand both your points of view. But even in that case, there are 3/4 seconds delay off the target before the battle stop and your rage accumulation is lost. Sometimes even more if there are buffers around. Chances are that wether or not you switch targets, you will still keep the previous rage accumulation, therefore not needing those talents to proc earlier
Even then you cannot escape the 220 point cap. Therefore use your horn on commanders with no feral nature so their fiest skill can be optimized in your murderball and use feral on rage engine commanders and add a silent trial with expertise or a ring of doom. The horn is not for every commander. That is the result of the testing.
Wick does an excellent job reverse engineering how rage works in great detail. The debate here stems from the fact that the conclusions drawn by either Wick or Drago are not one size fits all. In KvK Drago's advice will apply to max tech players running 5-7 high damage field marches where most battles end quickly with their opponent dying (resetting your rage), while a lower spender running 2-3 field marches will likely see longer battles, switching targets more and maintaining rage. Fighting style and skill also comes into play. Nobody is "right" or "wrong", both conclusions are valid in different situations. Viewers, always keep in mind the perspectives presented and how they relate to you! Thanks Wick and Drago for the great content.
Seems interesting
I think I’m about done with all of you. All this back and froth is a BIG turn OFF.
They both seem respectful of each other in my opinion.
youre gonna run out of rss REAL quick if you wipe your marches in every fight in kvk...
Big fight, I like that
Idol wick can i migrate ur kd? But my power is low. But i will do my best become a warrior. My power is 31m. ☹ im chat u today
OPEN FIELD FIGHTERS!!!!!!!!!!
Number is not always the right way to analyze the senario. (Then why you doesn't show your result?) BTW if you just go run to enemy with your march without going back you will lose im 100% sure about that. Why they use hit and run most of the Time? answer is Territory Buff and ADVANTAGE on positioning.
BTW your s number guy right? do you think most of the players playing ROK meet the Rage Cap?
there's no Vietnamese sub wick
Why
@@carloscolum9323 because i am a fan of wick
dear drago and wick: I am literally the only person who understands both of what you guys are saying. Thx. Don't believe me? just read the toxic comments below. Cheers. oh. btw, keep up the good work : )
Love it as always
And once again great vid man
F legend portuguese 🥺😭😞😰
No subtittle indonesia 😭
Liat gambarnya aja bro, barangkali bisa paham haha 🤣
@@indraarias2691 wkwkwkwkwkk 🤣🤣
As i've said previously, 99% of players dont have an account worth implementing every one percent(1%er in the game. I xan take the best player in the game and find flaws in their play and builds because i have been playing online games for 28years and have been using these formulas before most were born. Whats the point? You need a kingdom united, not a strong/flawless account to win kvk. Community turning into toxic dota/lol/cod community. Stats>facts. If you got a flawlwss account build wise and youre not pkaying wow/'new world /diablo/mmo. No1 will notice/care
idk whats ur point but okay i guess
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So?…
#DramaAlart
Respond idol☹
This is ridiculous. Drago really getting desperate for content. Lol. Like "horn and feral nature good to give 3k sev wound and you only get 2k" lol. Gimme a break
I am very confused about this statement you made: "if you stay ten seconds in a battle; and you do ten battles like that, feral nature will activate one time out of the ten times." This is not correct. Perhaps you meant to say that if you stay in a battle ten seconds, one of those seconds (on average) will see an activation of feral nature, in which case, out of ten ten-second battles, you will see an average of ten activations of feral nature. I mean this is so obvious, I can't see how you could miss that . . . with all due respect : )
It’s exactly what I meant. On ten seconds battles, it’s gonna activate one time in theory. I don’t think I’ve missed that
@@WickGaming Ok : ) on the words used in the video, the words were "in ten battles, it will activate one time" I think it was misspoken : ) I agree that you would not miss something like that. But, the words that were recorded said it that way, which is inccorect. I just listened to it again to make sure I am not mistaken.
@@pokerchannel6991 uh yeah I mean 1 turn out of 10 XD it was late when I recorded that but I'm sure everyone got the point haha
One more time, 10% of 10 = 1 every time. So, 10% of 10 battles is still 1 meaning that your feral nature only activates once per battle and each battle lasting 10 seconds. Pretty substandard
Ok it's getting silly.