Just asking, do u have a gift for me? I got a notice from both u and youthman about a "gift". If this is true please ",gift" it to some one else as my gear is set. Thanx
I am like yourself.......I have always used eq's & even use one on my iphone. My next purchase will be the Schiit Lokius as I currently have a Technics 8066 eq, but I really like what I've heard about the Lokius. Just need that control in my hands and my HK pm665 vxi needs extra sparkle and thump.
A properly designed amplifier has but one job to do. It is too increase the amplitude of the signal going into it without altering anything. Two Extremely important. Measurements are harmonic distortion and intermodulation distortion. I've never heard of artificial treble distortion.
Anyone not running an eq fell for the trap that was laid out for you years ago. Buy new speakers, new amps, special cables, connectors etc. just use an eq and dial in any speaker in any room because we don’t have our equipment in a perfect room.
Plus IIRC Record Producers mix at 90dB, so when Randy listens at 75dB he's going to need a "smile" curve EQ just to sound flat (Fletcher - Munson Equal Loudness curves).
I told you way back when you did your initial review, that the Crown drivecore matched with my Magnapan MGllas was nothing short of magical. Of course, with my background in the music business, I still use EQ to maximize my control. I bought several class AB amps to try with my system but I still come back to the Crown. Maggie's are thirsty. No argument about that and the Crown gives me that massive power underneath it all. I couldn't be happier. I appreciate the fact that you are a big enough man to go back and re-evaluate your initial position! Good on you. Peace ✌️
Class D is amazing on Magnepans. I had Ncores on mine, very very powerful grip on the panel, sounded like pure heaven. All those old guys who only run AB don't know what they are missing.
Terrific! I never bought into eq isn’t for true audiophiles. I love tone controls and loudness! Thanks for defending and advocating their use. Keep this up.
Don't let people tell you what you like or not. You do what works for you. I use my parametric eq almost all the time because nobody uses the same level or the same microphone's when they are recording. It is nice to be able make changes on the fly....
Great review Randy! 20 years ago I decided to get back into audio as a hobby. I walked into a high buck audio store and asked the salesman where the EQ’s were. With a smug Look the salesman basically implied EQ was only used in crappy low budget systems. Then I noticed a preamp with 8 tone controller. I asked the salesman if that preamp was low budget crap? He became very defensive and said no, McIntosh is a really good brand. I was confused. I now own the McIntosh c50 preamp with 8 tone controls, and will never be with out ton control again! It’s my system and it’s going to sound how I want it to sound!
I just discovered Crown still makes Class A/B amps. I just bought their XLi2500, a 750 wpc BEAST. I am using it to power my Magnepan LRS+ speakers. This amp sounds incredible! And for what, $569? This is a very musical amp, very meaty bass and midrange if you like that. Very detailed with very good instrument separation and that HUGE soundstage that you will never get with one of these Class D amps... Very Happy with my Crown! And my Lokius. ;-)
The filters are there to filter out the frequencies your speakers can’t reproduce. Reducing wear and energy consumption on the amp (heat) and protecting speakers a bit.
@@neps4th here's a simple example, a mid/high speaker used in a pro audio set up wouldn't be suitable for running full range as xmax would be reached at very low power levels (can't produce bass in any meaningful amount), therefore one would set it to run from around 100hz up to 20khz to protect the drivers. Not as applicable for hifi use but setting a 40hz hpf on a pair of bookshelf speakers would enable you to drive them with more power, reducing the risk of hitting xmax on the bass driver.
I love my XLS powering my mains from the preamp outs on the RX-V6A, using it's EQ to tailor the sound. That's my stereo setup. The RX-V6A's amp is only used to power the surround speakers for Atmos/DTS, etc.
I matched my Crown XLS 1502 with my Polk Audio LSiM 705's. They match wonderfully. I chose the Saga S because I didn't want to add two "warm" components. I figured the speakers were warm on their own.
I have a XLS 1502-2 which just got the Lokius treatment. Listening is so much more enjoyable. Today added the XLi 1500 as I like class A/B amps. Should arrive first week of April.
I think it is the 6k band that needs a significant cut. Speakers are JBL 4425 monitors and preamp is PrimaLuna Dialog Premium while Dialog Premium HP is getting a rest.
@@slam854 Did you get your Xli yet? I just plugged in the Xli 2500 to my Maggie LRS+ speakers and am being blown away at the sound. Meaty, detailed, instrument separation, and the HUGE soundstage. This is an incredible amp for the money.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt show me ANY CABLE that will change a frequency like eq does. Objective data or you do not know what you are talking about. Talk is cheap, golden ears.
@@AbsoluteFidelity No, you are cheap which is why you own cheap gear and mine is north more than your home. If you had any knowledge or insight about high-end audio, you'd know what a ridiculous and frankly embarrassing statement you made. As if amplitude is what constitutes high resolution. Can your magical EQ reduce transmissive distortions? Did you even take science in high school?
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt come on now, Im still waiting for any evidence that expensive cables will make a difference compared to already competant but ultra cheap cables. Im also waiting for evidence that an expensive cable would make a bigger difference than eq. Do you know what you are talking about? Prove it.
THANK YOU! Finally some wise words on tone control. I hate those snobs stating "my set-up does not need tone control because it's good quality" Well, I don't really hate them of course, I just think they completely void themselves as audiophiles. I love playing around with my setup, dailing in the tones at a certain volume. I will quote somebody you might know too: "The only person that needs to like the sound of your setup is yourself."
tbh i think this entire anti tone control argument is just plain bs. NOTHING is 100% perfect, i would say. no speakers, no headphones. they might come close to perfect hitting like a 99%+ but theres allways this ''i wish this would be a slight bit more pronounced or this be a little bit more relaxed''' go ahead and personalize it then. when i first came in contact with tone controls and eq curves was on headphones. And now i think its almost mandatory for them to shine and dont forget that the audio they play changes over time. wearing down pads will slightly alter the audio, getting a year older might change your ears a litte so you need to adjust your gear slightly over time aswell. And its kind of similar to speakers minus the wearing down pads. Or what about you like your speakers right now as they are perfectly for relaxed jazz or lofi music but once you switch over to metal you kinda want them to punch a little harder... do you go out now and buy another set of speakers just for a different music genre? why not just try to slightly eq the curve to get it closer to where you want them to be instead. i mean ofc if you overdo it EQ sounds really bad. as little eq as possible but just as much as needed. As soon as you get to the point you can tell the difference right away, its allready almost too much eq. just a little bit, so it adds this 1% on top but if you would not ab them, you wouldnt even notice eq is on. if you dont HAVE to EQ...yeah sure dont... because its technicly better...but dismissing eq straight up even if that could save you a couple hundred bucks? i dont know, sounds dumb. more like a marketing gag so companys keep telling you that eq is bad just so you buy new stuff. Think of it for a second: have you ever been to a concert? probably yes. on EVERY single concert you have audioengineers in the backseat calibrating all the gear, from microphones to speakers to instruments because every room and location is different. And its not because they use shitty speakers.
I remember (1970s) people using EQ for a lot of things. 1 - Changing the profile of one channel compared to the other to correct for an unbalanced room 2 - tweaking the sound on traded bootleg cassettes to improve the sound quality of crappy recordings. We actually did this quite a lot for playback, but also to duplicate from a master to a 'corrected' listening copy, Yes kids, we didn't have file sharing... we MAILED cassettes back and forth around the world to trade music. 🤣 3 - removing only specific frequencies with a sharp specific dip to eliminate his and hum 4 - the type of tweaking to taste you describe here Some of this may have been a legit improvement to sound, some maybe not. I remember a lot of times seeing people constantly adjusting EQ almost every song while listening, as if they were correcting everything real time. It was kind of silly. It was once explained to me that "Really Good hifi' didn't need EQ because they had designed the equipment 'right' in the first place, but that consumer grade equipment needed to be able to 'fix' the sound. I always found that to be a strange logic. That said, on my Aiyima T9 I never use the tone controls, I leave it flat almost always. It might be nice to have a different sound profile for TV vs music, but I probably wouldn't bother beyond that.
Bandpass is great on these especially for subwoofers because you can make a subwoofer tuned and high passed at 20hz then low pass at 100hz or wherever you want the cutoff. These drivecores are amazing.
I have an XLs1500. Awesome amp. Just a bit of a noise floor that is obvious with my compression divers. But it can really get loud very easy... Still my favorite amp
I only got back into hi-fi about five years ago (after a thirty- year absence) and thank all you guys for getting me up to speed. So the first thing I noticed was that nobody was talking about equalizers or tone controls. I have been pointing this out for a while on line but my questions didn't get any traction. Your very detailed and accurate description of how to properly enjoy your EQ function was the best I could imagine. Did we mention that its great for rooms that aren't very good acoustically ? Thanks Randy !!
I have 2 of the XLS 2502 amps (440wpc into 8ohms). I use them for my 4 passive subs rated at 400w RMS, and 1600w peak. I also have 7 of the Behringer A800 amps. I am currently using 4 of them. The Behringers are rated at 220wpc into 8ohms, bridged they are rated at 800w into 8ohm. I am using two of them bridged. I am also using a MiniDSP. The Behringers have a lower noise floor. I also use a BBE 882i sonic maximizer, an Aphex Exciter for my EQ. I also use a tube preamp. IT"S WONDERFUL!
I come from a dj background Randy and I use EQ all the time on my big rig . I also have EQ on my two chanel set up at home I just love the fine tune abilities so EQ gets a 👍from me and so does your video 👍
Thank you for your service. I was stationed at Camp Pendleton 2nd Batt/5th Marines and one of my best friends was a Corpsman, and MAN let me tell you he was a true DAWG, and Soldier
I have 6 1502s running the home theater setup and a 2502 and a 1002 running the bedroom setup. I love these amps. Added a tube pre amp to the bedroom setup to give it some warmth and air since I unlike the home theater no Dirac. So versatile, with the ability to turn off the screen, LEDs, etc. Input sensitivity selection, chaining. P.S. not the grammar police but it's a TS connection not TRS.
I Run my stereo with tone controls bypassed (FLAT) and my Infinity QLS-1’s sound fantastic at all sound pressure levels !! Running a Crown DC 300A with matching Crown IC 150 Pre-amp !! This setup has wowed me for over 45 Years !!
I bought the Aiyima T9 to try with the crown. The Geshelli j2 Dac is sublime with it. Behringer makes a great 16 channel balanced EQ that has a ton of features for $199 on Amazon
Thanks Randy, after years of working in loud industrial areas, my low and high frequency hearing is not so good. Eq and tone controls help. I just wish more manufacturers would be open to it.
I am on a home theater kick as of late. One thing I look at in a home theater preamp is audyssey or dirac or ARC. Auto room correction with calibrated mics. Super fancy EQ's. I can spend forever modifying curves levels etc. I have to say, I had a 22 Band Sounds Craftsman EQ way back when and a Yamaha CR1020. Lot's o'fun. Now I have that for every channel and separate one's for 4 sub channels etc.. EQ's are everywhere.
I use my DBXi 15 EQ more for adjusting room harmonics also the vibration from subwoofer. In my bedroom I have the walls covered with 2 layers of Harbor F Moving Blankets & a nice thrift store comforter on the back wall, that provides a cleaner flat sound & added clarity to spacific sounds & instruments. I have in the mail a (open Box) discounted Yamaha MG12XU Mixer to replace my Marantz old SR7000 i got for $80 Craigs list. This Mixer has a USB connect & I can added echo effect on a grandeur scale than Marantz Receiver. I love the Marantz sound, not as emphasizing bass music as my Pioneer Elite I got for $100. I hope to have my own (channel) & show the difference a Receiver makes with a $300 Mixer USB & Ultra 4K Sony Deck I have..
I have a Loki that I use on one of my headphone amps. I never thought I needed an EQ, but it's been fun tweeking the sound of my headphones to my taste. I'm very happy with my EQ! Great Review👍.
Thanks for this video. Treating gear or recorded music like they're sacred and shouldn't be messed with is THE antithesis to the musicians and talent that create and record this stuff in the first place.
CAM, I totally agree with you, tone controls and EQ are great. (and you can always turn them off) One other observation, our hearing changes as we age, so tone controls and EQ are very handy to enhance frequencies that we just don't hear as well anymore. Nice episode Randy!
An amazing video. Well done, lots of knowledge, wisdom. I used EQ throughout the 80's. Love it. Then, its use faded as I got busy an didn't have the time to include it. Then, it didn't fit with the digital world. Now, I'm intrigued by your video. Videos like this one, sir, are the reason I keep coming back to your channel. Nice!
I feel EXACTLY the same way. My parents had a Fischer cabinet that had a fun EQ. I loved messing around with it while playing Kiss Destroyer and Night Ranger (among others). Yes, you CAN still rock in America. I wish I could find a DIY EQ to build into a 3D printed case.
I just saw a GR video where the speaker owner sent in a pair of LS-50 Meta's for an estimate for modification rather than simply using tone controls!!!
Thank you! There is still someone other than me out there that hates flat dry sound! I went to the trouble to get a receiver with pre-outs for every channel just so I could put a tube preamp with base and treble before my amps on every channel except the subs which have their own amps built in, and I can obviously control the subs from the reciever for crossover freq/etc. The main reasons are, just running everything through the receiver either sounds dry and flat, or it puts the same amount of very artificial sounding change into every single channel which I can't stand either.
Sweet!!! No hiss or buzz at all anymore. I added a ground loop isolator on my rca input. That rca in from the av reciever then goes into a line converter then xlr inputs to the amp. It POuNDs my two Rockford Fosgate P3D2 12s at 4 ohm stereo. I have a dayton dsp 48 comming soon.
I owned the 78lb emotiva xpa-2 gen 2 and I bought the crown XLS2502 for $200 off a friend and it absolutely blew away my emotiva. I always have used a equalizer from the early 80s up to now and use a marantz pm8006 integrated amplifier for my crown amplifier with the eq between the preamplifier and the amplifier and its incredible keep up the great videos its nice to be able to have options bass,midrange,treble and eq.
Good advice & nice video randy. I think a lot of this comes from how loud the noise floor is on analog sources. Since we were used to the dust on records and tape hiss a liitle more noise from eq or loudness is no big deal. Personally, i have an old sae parametric eq. It's eq nirvana.
The Crown is a great, cheap way to test if your speakers need more power. There was always something missing in my system and I tried a Crown and yup, that was it. The extra power totally "lifted the veil". Speakers sounded much more alive and the music sounded more like it was in the room rather than down the hall, even at lower volumes. Not subtle at all. Guitar center and Amazon carry Crown and have generous return policies so it's an easy test. Whenever I see amp reviews that say "well it's only X watts but that's plenty for most speakers" I sort or snicker to myself. Sure it is. The Crown isn't the last word in noise floor or distortion but it let me know that lots of power was good thing in my system. Ended up with an XTZ Edge A2-300, a more refined class D which isn't so ugly. Paired with an inexpensive tube pre-amp and you get a nice balanced sound without the class D edge that some complain about.
Right on brother! Get an EQ!! I got me the big Loki and love it. No tone controls came in with CDs. Digital music was perfect and didn’t need adjustment… the 80’s, what can you say?
Digital E.Q. can be super transparent and is what every system should have. Would save people a LOT of money swapping gear to get the sound they want. You can radically change the sound of a system for the better.
I'm a trained sound dude, so I am familiar with P/A equipment. When I did my home theater, I bought a Crown amp to drive the mains in my system. Not the one you have, one without the DSP. But I also found it to be very dry. You might laugh, but replaced it with a Behringer A-800, and it sounds amazing. The dynamics came alive! I would love to see you review that one.
It's possible that the system was over-dampened and had too much driver control. I've had a similar issue and switching the wires for longer ones softened things up.
I’ve had one of those amps for a while and it’s very versatile. I’ve used it for Buttkickers, a DIY Sub, a 2 channel music system and now a 2 channel TV system. It’s great to keep around for whatever you may need it for.
I had to smile during your video as I have nearly the same setup as a “back-up” to my less reliable vintage gear. I’m using a Schiit Saga preamp into a Lokius, then into a used Crown 1002. I’ve also added a standard Loki in the chain to function as a “loudness” control at low volumes and am working on adding a “mono” switch to complete the feature set that is so difficult to find in today’s audio gear. Audiophile? Perhaps not, but I like how it sounds.
Hi Randy, Im typing as im watching this video. I've done something very similar to what you did. This is the set up at my work place: LGV50S loaded with flac files playing with Power Amp pro (excellent graphic eq as well as parametric eq) > ifi Zen Dac v1 (xlr cables) > Crown xls 1002 > Elac UniFiUB5. PowerAmp is loaded with features btw.
I use a 7 band EQ on everything I own for 40+ years now. If you were using the classic slide EQ his settings would have looked like the classic "V pattern" or the "gullwing". Knock the mids out while lifting the ends. I am also partial to QSC over Crown but I have found when using any of the limiter switches it changes the sound. Like the clipping limiter really cut a lot of the overall high end when not clipping. It was better just to let the Amps do power alone.
Thanks for another great video. I have a Crown XLS 1500 that I use with an SMSL DO100 DAC but I find that it doesn't sound good when using the digital volume control. Perhaps its because I listen at low levels and the data being thrown away is the "warmth" etc. Right now I'm using a Schiit Heresy from the SMSL RCA outputs and into the Crown RCA's. With this combo, I have a nice analog volume control that I can be sure is right down and have no possibility of a full volume DAC reset. Using the Schiit brings back the warmth and richness I have been looking for, as well as MUCH more powerful bass. I don't know why having an additional high level stage results in such a large change in bass, but it does. I have found this will all amps since the 70's when I bypassed the high level stage of my preamp for my turntable. Although I had enough volume, the bass was far less powerful sounding. Hooking the high level stage back up restored the driving force and weight. This has been the case with every amplifier/dac/phono that I have tried and it has been a lot :). No need for equalization, the extra driving force and weight transforms thin sound and poor balance. Oh, and I tried turning the Crown level controls down low and increased the volume of the DAC and the sound was much better when direct connected but a pain in the arse to control when listening to TH-cam etc with a wide variety of levels. Have you ever noticed this effect?
Completely agree about EQ/room correction/DSP since nobody has perfect room acoustics or perfect speakers. Do you have a calibrated mic such as the miniDSP Umik-1? I'd be curious to know what what kind of boost those eq knobs are doing and what the frequency response was at the MLP.
I used to own this amp and I got it mainly to do DJ stuff. Eventually I got powered speakers so I moved this amp to my home studio. I eventually got a Marantz amp that I had my eye on and an Emotiva amp. Despite putting out less power both of those AB amps sound way better than the Crown. I did find the Crown really good for doing parties and as you can imagine we DJs certainly use EQ at our gigs. At parties and other events people are not doing critical listening. They are mostly just enjoying their so called favorite songs when you play them. For me it's Class D when I am out doing gigs and need an efficient amp that can get loud. At home I need an AB amp that can establish a nice soundstage with depth and clarity.
Glad to see you circled back on this amp. I have several crown amps powering my Elac Unifi theater and I think its the best bang for your buck when it comes to powering home theater rooms. I have them hooked up to a Mini DSP HD to help with bass management as well.
Always use my little 9 band eq. Some tracks just don't sound good on some speakers and some speakers just can't handle some frequencies very well. When the windows start to vibrate you just cut down the lows a little without turning it down.
Loving my Loki Max! …going into my Schiit Freya + ….My system sounds GREAT on good recordings, no adjustments needed…but all recordings vary…so I just use my MAX to tweak certain recordings here and there. LOVE IT! The 3 preset buttons on the remote ROCK! 😎👍🏼😎
Really interesting! I've learnt some thing new today, thanks to you, Sir! So, the EQ can be used with an integrated amp, which has Pre Out, Main In, like the Audiolab 6000A, exactly like a signal path in the pro world, a studio, with the Sends and Returns, for the hardware processors. Really cool. Nice video, as always.
Have you heard of the 3 stages of EQ? It’s from live sound. 1. Instrument EQ 2. System EQ 3. Room EQ Pro systems work around these stages. The method of getting these stages configured correctly will allow the PA system to function optimally, and therefore sound great. All of this has been nailed down in pro audio. Applying live pro audio principles to home audio will cut out so much BS. Lots of pro audio is great value, compared to pretentious audiophile hifi. Hifi speakers are too coloured. Pro speakers need to be EQ’d for the room they are in. Start everything as flat as possible then work from there. That’s why pro amps and speakers are ideally flat in response. EQing a rubbish hifi though is like trying to “polish a turd”.
thanks Richard. I've been trying to put together in my head why some really decent live instrument kit hangs together with some otherwise fairly standard balanced coax cables, yet there is a market for hifi cable with the price of a small car. Live audio... powered wharfedale onstage monitors with Wharfedale cones and a 300W amp and a 5 band EQ etc for sensible prices
My Hi-fi is all pro audio gear. I love the immensely powerful amplifiers and the high efficiency speakers that can take gobs of power. I can shake the house with just 1 watt... And I still have 4299 watts in reserve... I love my life and my wife for letting me have such fun toys..
I am running two XLS -1500's off of an old Pioneer VSX-1017TXV. One in stereo (525W/525W) via the high pass filter set at 59Hz. The second one I run bridged (1550W) in low pass to a passive sub. The LFE output doesn't put out enough voltage for the bass so I had to but a Rolls MB15b converter and use the balanced inputs on the sub amp. Even at high volumes, I can barely get the led's to move on the amps. Nothing like having plenty of headroom.
I run four of those in my theater. 2402 on the front mains 1502 bridged on the center channel 1502 for the side surrounds 1502 for the rear surrounds Four Atmos speakers running off the Yamaha RX-A3080 Unlimited headroom !!!
Of course you need an EQ! No speaker, amp, room or recording is the same. I've worked with audio in professional settings for 10 years, EQ is everything (kind of) Thank you for a good video.
Great review. Almost bought this amp but the DSP and price kept me away and went for the Behringer A800. Glad I did! Nice full sound for class D! And $100 cheaper!
I will always use tone controls and a loudness switch (if available)! After all, only the listener needs to be happy with the way his system sounds! Great video Randy and the production just keep getting better!
I really don't understand how "audiophiles" can call themselves audiophiles and claim that EQ should not be used. Do they not know that even the best concert halls specifically designed for sound ALWAYS use EQ when they use a PA system?
It's ignorance to a degree and snobbery for the rest. There is also a learning curve with EQ.changing one band not only affects that band, but also those immediately adjacent. You have to be willing to learn.
@@josephvanalstyne4049 I have been doing small hall commercial and church sound for 40 years...each room has many hot and cold frequencies, so it is necessary to eq EVERY ROOM.
I bought a Behringer 15band eq about a year ago it was probably the best upgrade I could buy! I won't live without one as long as I have speakers lol I use it on an older Yamaha 5.1 receiver powering Sony sscs5's. I loved them before but now with a proper eq tuning they are pretty badass!
I had the Loki for years now and just got a Lokius a few weeks back and I love it! I don't turn on my system without EQ, I think that it is essential; because I want to hear music how *I* want to hear it and that, to me, is no sin. Love your reviews as always. I've been wondering about the Crown but I'm still a bit shy of Class D.
Very interesting stuff Randy! I used to have an eq in my system back in the 80's. It definitely made things sound better. Today I have an integrated amp with no tone controls and I don't have an eq. What's interesting is my current system sounds great to me without any tone controls or an eq. So I'm reluctant to add an eq to mess with it. Maybe I've done a great job of matching all my components and speakers or my hearing has changed over the years. I do think eq's have a place if you aren't 100% satisfied with the sound you are hearing and need to tweak it. Nothing wrong with using an eq to tweak your sound.
I have a Crown XLi2500 to power my CV SL 15s. Not hear to argue about " real" Cerwin Vega vs "new" CV, but I love these speakers, they serve their purpose well. Back to the XLi. Great AB amp, pretty neutral sound with massive power. I feed it balanced with my ADI 2 dac, which has an EQ and loudness function and man it sounds good. I can crank those 15s and it is crystal clear all the way up te volume knob. I can't get it close to full power, my house may collapse. I generally listen at normal volumes, but I got the 15s for when I want to rock out.
Another trick you can use with this and other Class D amps is running a tube pre amp. I use an FX Audio Tube 01 with some old GE tubes and it warms up the sound nicely takes a little edge off. To me the fullness I get from speakers when they are thrown gobs of power outweighs some of the tonal issues that some class D amps have. The XTZ-Edge A2-300 (and now 400) are a little more refined and lower noise floor amps that fit a little better in home audio installations but give Crown like power.
@@AudiophileTommy The tube-01 is just a volume control, the tube 03 has tone controls as well. This adds op amps to the circuit. Some people prefer the more direct tube 01 and others like the tube 03 as the tone controls open up the possibility of op amp rolling as well as tube rolling. There's also a tube-01 J model that ads a minus 6 db switch which is useful as the output has a lot of gain that can be a bit much for some amps. I've got the 01-J as the standard 01 didn't give me much play in the volume control till it got too loud.
That Schiit EQ is amazing. I use it in my setups. What I found that works good is adding a tube buffer between the source and eq. That will tame down the highs and everything will come alive. You can simple use a cheap tube buffer or the schiit freya plus. Adding the tube to a class d is the best way to fix the hardness. The next level is using good NOS Tubes in the right spot.
Lets agree that power amplifier, don't add or subtract or change anything to the signal, but just amplifies it to drive your speakers. That's it and it does it very very good and loud. Sound comes from anything else in your equipment, like you said, don't be afraid to use eq.
Great video! I have always used an EQ, but mainly because the software varies!! Also, have you ever played around with a parametric equalizer??? I love mine.
I use a Bellari EQ570 on my desktop system . . . and a Realistic 31-2000 on my main 2-channel system . . . . Depending on the source, there always seems to been the need for slight adjustments to make the audio sound right for me. 🙂🙂
I wish all receivers & integrated amps had three things: variable loudness, parametric EQ (at least 3 bands), and lastly an adjustable compressor that varies with the volume level. The last one is most useful for late night TV viewing.
You're the only reviewer who doesn't make funny faces and twitches his nose to tone controls, loudness switches and equalizers. I still have an MXR 114 equalizer from the late 70's/early 80's and maybe it's time to get it out of retirement and "experiment" as soon as I get the SX 780 back from service. Then the question is, what to do with the SX 550? Looks and sounds great!
No, actually Steve Guttenberg "The Audiophiliac" who reviews a lot of hi end gear, is VERY pro eq/tone control. Thomas on stereo, another hi end reviewer, has incorporated tone control in his soon to be launched, tube integrated.
@@sonnyhenriksen9398 I watch Steve quite regularly and frankly I must have missed his "liking" of tone, loudness control and equalizers, on the other hand I do not know Thomas.
Cool video! As an "audio enthusiast" who values bang for the buck (that is why I like you by the way) I find it funny that "audiophiles" usually abhor tone controls and, God forbid, EQ. No room or speaker is perfect, along with attention to speaker placement and some modicum of room treatment, EQ done correctly can make a huge difference in bringing the best out of any system for it's owner. Using a HTPC plugged into a large 4K TV as my music and video server. Using the PC allows running Equalizer APO (which is a free download), to EQ and REW with a mic to measure my system. Used a 10 band Soundcraftsmen graphic EQ by ear back in the day with the usual "smile curve". Having a fully tweakable paramedic EQ paired with REW and using my big ass 4K TV to interact with the system and monitor the EQ progress is like dying and going to tone control heaven. The complaints about the Crown are so easily fixed in EQ that they are barely worth mentioning. The Crown has improved greatly over the years, it has accurate clean sound, it is cool running, and it inexpensive for the stupid amount of performance it provides. I think the Crown amp is just awesome and the ultimate bang for the buck.
I use two 1/8 guitar jack to RCA converters to run dual subwoofers off my crown and it is incredible. I also have four xls bridged to mono daisy chained off my Schiit Freya. I am very happy with it once the subwoofers are dialed in.
I liked the video, Randy, but I have so little real understanding of how to use an EQ beyond 3 controls (bass, mid and treble) that I’d probably just be wasting time. Maybe you could do a video on that?
Equalizers are plentiful they can often be found in thrift stores yet because " purist audiophiles " won't use them. Then the pro sound market is very competitive and plentiful you can get 30 bandwidth per channel (1/3 octave) for around 300 dollars. I have used them many times especially in multi amped systems with multiple speakers. All you need is one good preamp and you can put the EQ in between the preamp and either an integrated amplifier or power amp. The result can be amazing when you start tailoring speakers for a specialty and blending the different ones together. It's also useful to knock out the lowest frequencies for the smaller drivers that don't do deep base very well and leave that to the subwoofer and large drivers. The best benefit is you get to spend many hours turning everything and spending quality time with your hobby. I was always on a low budget so I got all of mine at a thrift store. The 10 band dusl channel ones were most useful ( those 7 band ones were just a little too wide per band and it was good to be able too tune left and right differently) and those with the spectrum analyzer were fun. The spectrum analyzer functions as a sorta power meter when you use between the preamp and power amplifier I found it useful that way. I could see if I was overdriving individual amps and what I was doing to individual drivers in the speakers. That really helped to keep everything clean and clear at high volume.
Eq aside, the Crown will sound like whatever pre you hook it up to. The SU9 is fine as a dac but the pre section is unknown. Major sound differences come from the pre section and not the power section, thats where sound is usually manipulated at by the designer of the amp.
I made 2 power amps that are neutral, but spent AGES making a preamp that suited my room, system and preferences. The preamp and speakers are the most important components to choose. P.S my preamp has tone control, and it is so crucial.
Thanks for the interesting video. Crown amps are great. I have 2 amps that I use to Bi amp my Cerwin Vega XLS 215 speakers. I nearly sold them at one stage as I wasn't happy with the sound, until I set them up the way that they are now. My Yamaha H5000 amp runs mids and highs, and My Crown 2502 runs the 4 bass woofers through a low pass filter. However I am not using an EQ but I am using a Behringer 3 way active crossover. My speakers are now loud and clear even at levels over 100db. There is no distortion at all with all genres of music, pretty much. Having said that I am not a huge listener of heavy metal but I play it on occasions. The system sounds amazing from all sources but nothing beats vinyl, especially 45rpm Masters. I am however considering getting a rack mount EQ or a dynamic optimizer only because I love tuning and fiddling.
Harley Lovegrove the designer of the Sibelius single driver speaker, has a very interesting video on how he incorporates the Lyngdorf TDAI1120 into his listening room. (Pearl Acoustics Channel)
EQ are needed to fix a room frequency response, this is the most important function of a Equalizer because you can change the amp, you can change the speakers of your hi-fi but you can’t change your living room
I just bought (and waiting for it to be ready) a Sansui Eight. One thing I like about the old receivers is that the preamp had jumpers to go into the amp. Essentially creating a preamp and amp in one box that allows me to hook up an EQ between the two. Something that you can’t do with modern gear unless you go full separates.
Music is for enjoyment. Those who say EQs are not allowed in HiFi are extremely closed minded. For most of us, the listening environments are greatly influenced by our listening room, no surprise there for those with even an elementary knowledge of sound reproduction. That said, I picked up a DBX 31 x 2 channel eq which is normally designed for professional audio but bottom line works wonders in our home environments. Now understand, this is not a piece of audio jewelry, not even close. These units were designed to be put in place, hidden away, and once satisfied with adjustments, simply left alone. Please understand a 31 x 2 band eq takes way more practice and/or experience in identifying frequencies and their adjustments. If your willing to put in the time and don't care about the looks, I think you'd be extremely pleased with the results. Got mine used on Ebay around $100 and my EARS love it. Cheers and hope this helps someone.
I had a 10-band stereo eq. It could not correct for resonances of the room. Ended up running flat all the time. Now I just use base and treble controls on my Luxman integrated, and only to fix poor recordings.
As a live sound guy, everytime i figure i dont need to bring eq for this small gig, I regret it. Its a humping 3u ARX unit with high and low pass filters and it works great. Mostly use it to cut problem frequencies and " flatten the room response ". I own digital provessors as well, but none do it as swiftly and sound as good as the ARX. Indispensible tool.
![The King of Pro Audio? Crown XLi 1500 Amp Dyno Test and Review [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/s5_PegGVF9k/mqdefault.jpg)
![The King of Pro Audio? Crown XLi 1500 Amp Dyno Test and Review [4K]](/img/tr.png)
Crown Drive Core amzn.to/3Qh7FrY ($409)
Schiit Lokius www.schiit.com/products/lokius
SMSL SU9N amzn.to/3xhpezq
-------------------------==============================www.patreon.com/cheapaudioman
------Tidal Deal bit.ly/3siuqSF
------Crutchfield shop-links.co/cguPK8XEGmt
-----Best Buy Deals shop-links.co/cf9yDZeYtUH
---amzn.to/3GkNaop
-----CAM Store (New Products!) bit.ly/30Lgu4K
------apos.audio?sca_ref=552340.TY98BPcZ6P
-------massdrop.7eer.net/qnOye5
---------Amazon Unlimited Music and Disney Plus Free Trial amzn.to/3DRAVj9
Just asking, do u have a gift for me? I got a notice from both u and youthman about a "gift". If this is true please ",gift" it to some one else as my gear is set.
Thanx
@@musicman8270 no. It’s a scam and not me
@@cheapaudioman Thanks.
I am like yourself.......I have always used eq's & even use one on my iphone. My next purchase will be the
Schiit Lokius as I currently have a Technics 8066 eq, but I really like what I've heard about the Lokius.
Just need that control in my hands and my HK pm665 vxi needs extra sparkle and thump.
A properly designed amplifier has but one job to do. It is too increase the amplitude of the signal going into it without altering anything. Two Extremely important. Measurements are harmonic distortion and intermodulation distortion. I've never heard of artificial treble distortion.
Anyone not running an eq fell for the trap that was laid out for you years ago. Buy new speakers, new amps, special cables, connectors etc. just use an eq and dial in any speaker in any room because we don’t have our equipment in a perfect room.
Exactly spot on! Gotta use your brain folks.
Plus IIRC Record Producers mix at 90dB, so when Randy listens at 75dB he's going to need a "smile" curve EQ just to sound flat (Fletcher - Munson Equal Loudness curves).
I have yamaha amp with eq and I never use them.
Always sounds less good with eq in my case.
Or get room correction... to correct the room.
@@10Filip Particularly bass (waterfall) energy.
I told you way back when you did your initial review, that the Crown drivecore matched with my Magnapan MGllas was nothing short of magical. Of course, with my background in the music business, I still use EQ to maximize my control. I bought several class AB amps to try with my system but I still come back to the Crown. Maggie's are thirsty. No argument about that and the Crown gives me that massive power underneath it all. I couldn't be happier. I appreciate the fact that you are a big enough man to go back and re-evaluate your initial position! Good on you. Peace ✌️
Class D is amazing on Magnepans. I had Ncores on mine, very very powerful grip on the panel, sounded like pure heaven. All those old guys who only run AB don't know what they are missing.
@@Audfile amen
Totally agree
@@Audfile What brand Ncore amp were/are you using?
@@Audfile Thnx. Good info. Do you believe the Crown would work on my 1.7QRs.
Terrific! I never bought into eq isn’t for true audiophiles. I love tone controls and loudness! Thanks for defending and advocating their use. Keep this up.
Don't let people tell you what you like or not. You do what works for you. I use my parametric eq almost all the time because nobody uses the same level or the same microphone's when they are recording. It is nice to be able make changes on the fly....
Great review Randy! 20 years ago I decided to get back into audio as a hobby. I walked into a high buck audio store and asked the salesman where the EQ’s were. With a smug Look the salesman basically implied EQ was only used in crappy low budget systems. Then I noticed a preamp with 8 tone controller. I asked the salesman if that preamp was low budget crap? He became very defensive and said no, McIntosh is a really good brand. I was confused. I now own the McIntosh c50 preamp with 8 tone controls, and will never be with out ton control again! It’s my system and it’s going to sound how I want it to sound!
I just discovered Crown still makes Class A/B amps. I just bought their XLi2500, a 750 wpc BEAST. I am using it to power my Magnepan LRS+ speakers. This amp sounds incredible! And for what, $569? This is a very musical amp, very meaty bass and midrange if you like that. Very detailed with very good instrument separation and that HUGE soundstage that you will never get with one of these Class D amps... Very Happy with my Crown! And my Lokius. ;-)
The filters are there to filter out the frequencies your speakers can’t reproduce. Reducing wear and energy consumption on the amp (heat) and protecting speakers a bit.
What the heck are you talking about?
@@neps4th here's a simple example, a mid/high speaker used in a pro audio set up wouldn't be suitable for running full range as xmax would be reached at very low power levels (can't produce bass in any meaningful amount), therefore one would set it to run from around 100hz up to 20khz to protect the drivers. Not as applicable for hifi use but setting a 40hz hpf on a pair of bookshelf speakers would enable you to drive them with more power, reducing the risk of hitting xmax on the bass driver.
I love my XLS powering my mains from the preamp outs on the RX-V6A, using it's EQ to tailor the sound. That's my stereo setup. The RX-V6A's amp is only used to power the surround speakers for Atmos/DTS, etc.
I matched my Crown XLS 1502 with my Polk Audio LSiM 705's. They match wonderfully. I chose the Saga S because I didn't want to add two "warm" components. I figured the speakers were warm on their own.
I have a XLS 1502-2 which just got the Lokius treatment. Listening is so much more enjoyable. Today added the XLi 1500 as I like class A/B amps. Should arrive first week of April.
I think it is the 6k band that needs a significant cut. Speakers are JBL 4425 monitors and preamp is PrimaLuna Dialog Premium while Dialog Premium HP is getting a rest.
@@slam854 Did you get your Xli yet? I just plugged in the Xli 2500 to my Maggie LRS+ speakers and am being blown away at the sound. Meaty, detailed, instrument separation, and the HUGE soundstage. This is an incredible amp for the money.
EQ's Rock! I have a DBX 231 in my main system. Everybody hears differently so don't let non-eq'ers get in your way.
Fun fact : 1db up or down on the eq is worth 10000000 times more than the most expensive cable on earth.
You don't know wat you're talking about.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt show me ANY CABLE that will change a frequency like eq does. Objective data or you do not know what you are talking about. Talk is cheap, golden ears.
@@AbsoluteFidelity No, you are cheap which is why you own cheap gear and mine is north more than your home. If you had any knowledge or insight about high-end audio, you'd know what a ridiculous and frankly embarrassing statement you made. As if amplitude is what constitutes high resolution. Can your magical EQ reduce transmissive distortions? Did you even take science in high school?
Thats certainly facts, it is the truth.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt come on now, Im still waiting for any evidence that expensive cables will make a difference compared to already competant but ultra cheap cables. Im also waiting for evidence that an expensive cable would make a bigger difference than eq. Do you know what you are talking about? Prove it.
THANK YOU! Finally some wise words on tone control. I hate those snobs stating "my set-up does not need tone control because it's good quality" Well, I don't really hate them of course, I just think they completely void themselves as audiophiles. I love playing around with my setup, dailing in the tones at a certain volume. I will quote somebody you might know too: "The only person that needs to like the sound of your setup is yourself."
tbh i think this entire anti tone control argument is just plain bs. NOTHING is 100% perfect, i would say. no speakers, no headphones. they might come close to perfect hitting like a 99%+ but theres allways this ''i wish this would be a slight bit more pronounced or this be a little bit more relaxed''' go ahead and personalize it then.
when i first came in contact with tone controls and eq curves was on headphones. And now i think its almost mandatory for them to shine and dont forget that the audio they play changes over time. wearing down pads will slightly alter the audio, getting a year older might change your ears a litte so you need to adjust your gear slightly over time aswell.
And its kind of similar to speakers minus the wearing down pads.
Or what about you like your speakers right now as they are perfectly for relaxed jazz or lofi music but once you switch over to metal you kinda want them to punch a little harder... do you go out now and buy another set of speakers just for a different music genre? why not just try to slightly eq the curve to get it closer to where you want them to be instead.
i mean ofc if you overdo it EQ sounds really bad. as little eq as possible but just as much as needed. As soon as you get to the point you can tell the difference right away, its allready almost too much eq. just a little bit, so it adds this 1% on top but if you would not ab them, you wouldnt even notice eq is on.
if you dont HAVE to EQ...yeah sure dont... because its technicly better...but dismissing eq straight up even if that could save you a couple hundred bucks? i dont know, sounds dumb.
more like a marketing gag so companys keep telling you that eq is bad just so you buy new stuff.
Think of it for a second: have you ever been to a concert? probably yes. on EVERY single concert you have audioengineers in the backseat calibrating all the gear, from microphones to speakers to instruments because every room and location is different. And its not because they use shitty speakers.
So true!
I remember (1970s) people using EQ for a lot of things.
1 - Changing the profile of one channel compared to the other to correct for an unbalanced room
2 - tweaking the sound on traded bootleg cassettes to improve the sound quality of crappy recordings. We actually did this quite a lot for playback, but also to duplicate from a master to a 'corrected' listening copy, Yes kids, we didn't have file sharing... we MAILED cassettes back and forth around the world to trade music. 🤣
3 - removing only specific frequencies with a sharp specific dip to eliminate his and hum
4 - the type of tweaking to taste you describe here
Some of this may have been a legit improvement to sound, some maybe not. I remember a lot of times seeing people constantly adjusting EQ almost every song while listening, as if they were correcting everything real time. It was kind of silly.
It was once explained to me that "Really Good hifi' didn't need EQ because they had designed the equipment 'right' in the first place, but that consumer grade equipment needed to be able to 'fix' the sound. I always found that to be a strange logic.
That said, on my Aiyima T9 I never use the tone controls, I leave it flat almost always. It might be nice to have a different sound profile for TV vs music, but I probably wouldn't bother beyond that.
I used an sae parametric specifically for dubbing bootleg concert tapes. It worked miracles!
Bandpass is great on these especially for subwoofers because you can make a subwoofer tuned and high passed at 20hz then low pass at 100hz or wherever you want the cutoff. These drivecores are amazing.
I have an XLs1500. Awesome amp. Just a bit of a noise floor that is obvious with my compression divers. But it can really get loud very easy... Still my favorite amp
Randy, you should also try a tube preamp with that Crown amp setup! LUSH!
I only got back into hi-fi about five years ago (after a thirty- year absence) and thank all you guys for getting me up to speed. So the first thing I noticed was that nobody was talking about equalizers or tone controls. I have been pointing this out for a while on line but my questions didn't get any traction. Your very detailed and accurate description of how to properly enjoy your EQ function was the best I could imagine. Did we mention that its great for rooms that aren't very good acoustically ? Thanks Randy !!
Room correction pretty much does it these days what eq used to
I have 2 of the XLS 2502 amps (440wpc into 8ohms). I use them for my 4 passive subs rated at 400w RMS, and 1600w peak. I also have 7 of the Behringer A800 amps. I am currently using 4 of them. The Behringers are rated at 220wpc into 8ohms, bridged they are rated at 800w into 8ohm. I am using two of them bridged. I am also using a MiniDSP. The Behringers have a lower noise floor. I also use a BBE 882i sonic maximizer, an Aphex Exciter for my EQ. I also use a tube preamp. IT"S WONDERFUL!
One of my favorite features of the RME ADI 2fs DAC is the dynamic eq feature. It self adjust based on your volume. Amazing DAC.
I come from a dj background Randy and I use EQ all the time on my big rig . I also have EQ on my two chanel set up at home I just love the fine tune abilities so EQ gets a 👍from me and so does your video 👍
Thank you for your service. I was stationed at Camp Pendleton 2nd Batt/5th Marines and one of my best friends was a Corpsman, and MAN let me tell you he was a true DAWG, and Soldier
I have 6 1502s running the home theater setup and a 2502 and a 1002 running the bedroom setup. I love these amps.
Added a tube pre amp to the bedroom setup to give it some warmth and air since I unlike the home theater no Dirac.
So versatile, with the ability to turn off the screen, LEDs, etc. Input sensitivity selection, chaining.
P.S. not the grammar police but it's a TS connection not TRS.
I Run my stereo with tone controls bypassed (FLAT) and my Infinity QLS-1’s sound fantastic at all sound pressure levels !! Running a Crown DC 300A with matching Crown IC 150 Pre-amp !!
This setup has wowed me for over 45 Years !!
I bought the Aiyima T9 to try with the crown. The Geshelli j2 Dac is sublime with it.
Behringer makes a great 16 channel balanced EQ that has a ton of features for $199 on Amazon
Thanks Randy, after years of working in loud industrial areas, my low and high frequency hearing is not so good. Eq and tone controls help. I just wish more manufacturers would be open to it.
I am on a home theater kick as of late. One thing I look at in a home theater preamp is audyssey or dirac or ARC. Auto room correction with calibrated mics. Super fancy EQ's. I can spend forever modifying curves levels etc. I have to say, I had a 22 Band Sounds Craftsman EQ way back when and a Yamaha CR1020. Lot's o'fun. Now I have that for every channel and separate one's for 4 sub channels etc.. EQ's are everywhere.
I use my DBXi 15 EQ more for adjusting room harmonics also the vibration from subwoofer. In my bedroom I have the walls covered with 2 layers of Harbor F Moving Blankets & a nice thrift store comforter on the back wall, that provides a cleaner flat sound & added clarity to spacific sounds & instruments. I have in the mail a (open Box) discounted Yamaha MG12XU Mixer to replace my Marantz old SR7000 i got for $80 Craigs list. This Mixer has a USB connect & I can added echo effect on a grandeur scale than Marantz Receiver. I love the Marantz sound, not as emphasizing bass music as my Pioneer Elite I got for $100. I hope to have my own (channel) & show the difference a Receiver makes with a $300 Mixer USB & Ultra 4K Sony Deck I have..
Kenwood made a spectrum analyzer eq back in the day that was just the best eq I have ever seen or heard
I have a Loki that I use on one of my headphone amps. I never thought I needed an EQ, but it's been fun tweeking the sound of my headphones to my taste. I'm very happy with my EQ! Great Review👍.
Thanks for this video. Treating gear or recorded music like they're sacred and shouldn't be messed with is THE antithesis to the musicians and talent that create and record this stuff in the first place.
CAM, I totally agree with you, tone controls and EQ are great. (and you can always turn them off) One other observation, our hearing changes as we age, so tone controls and EQ are very handy to enhance frequencies that we just don't hear as well anymore. Nice episode Randy!
An amazing video. Well done, lots of knowledge, wisdom. I used EQ throughout the 80's. Love it. Then, its use faded as I got busy an didn't have the time to include it. Then, it didn't fit with the digital world. Now, I'm intrigued by your video. Videos like this one, sir, are the reason I keep coming back to your channel. Nice!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I feel EXACTLY the same way. My parents had a Fischer cabinet that had a fun EQ. I loved messing around with it while playing Kiss Destroyer and Night Ranger (among others). Yes, you CAN still rock in America. I wish I could find a DIY EQ to build into a 3D printed case.
I just saw a GR video where the speaker owner sent in a pair of LS-50 Meta's for an estimate for modification rather than simply using tone controls!!!
Thank you! There is still someone other than me out there that hates flat dry sound!
I went to the trouble to get a receiver with pre-outs for every channel just so I could put a tube preamp with base and treble before my amps on every channel except the subs which have their own amps built in, and I can obviously control the subs from the reciever for crossover freq/etc.
The main reasons are, just running everything through the receiver either sounds dry and flat, or it puts the same amount of very artificial sounding change into every single channel which I can't stand either.
Sweet!!! No hiss or buzz at all anymore. I added a ground loop isolator on my rca input. That rca in from the av reciever then goes into a line converter then xlr inputs to the amp. It POuNDs my two Rockford Fosgate P3D2 12s at 4 ohm stereo. I have a dayton dsp 48 comming soon.
Thank you so much for making this video. I have been thinking about buying a Crown + EQ for a long time. I might now pull the trigger.
I owned the 78lb emotiva xpa-2 gen 2 and I bought the crown XLS2502 for $200 off a friend and it absolutely blew away my emotiva. I always have used a equalizer from the early 80s up to now and use a marantz pm8006 integrated amplifier for my crown amplifier with the eq between the preamplifier and the amplifier and its incredible keep up the great videos its nice to be able to have options bass,midrange,treble and eq.
Good advice & nice video randy. I think a lot of this comes from how loud the noise floor is on analog sources. Since we were used to the dust on records and tape hiss a liitle more noise from eq or loudness is no big deal. Personally, i have an old sae parametric eq. It's eq nirvana.
The Crown is a great, cheap way to test if your speakers need more power. There was always something missing in my system and I tried a Crown and yup, that was it. The extra power totally "lifted the veil". Speakers sounded much more alive and the music sounded more like it was in the room rather than down the hall, even at lower volumes. Not subtle at all. Guitar center and Amazon carry Crown and have generous return policies so it's an easy test. Whenever I see amp reviews that say "well it's only X watts but that's plenty for most speakers" I sort or snicker to myself. Sure it is.
The Crown isn't the last word in noise floor or distortion but it let me know that lots of power was good thing in my system. Ended up with an XTZ Edge A2-300, a more refined class D which isn't so ugly. Paired with an inexpensive tube pre-amp and you get a nice balanced sound without the class D edge that some complain about.
Right on brother! Get an EQ!! I got me the big Loki and love it. No tone controls came in with CDs. Digital music was perfect and didn’t need adjustment… the 80’s, what can you say?
Digital E.Q. can be super transparent and is what every system should have. Would save people a LOT of money swapping gear to get the sound they want. You can radically change the sound of a system for the better.
I'm a trained sound dude, so I am familiar with P/A equipment. When I did my home theater, I bought a Crown amp to drive the mains in my system. Not the one you have, one without the DSP. But I also found it to be very dry. You might laugh, but replaced it with a Behringer A-800, and it sounds amazing. The dynamics came alive! I would love to see you review that one.
It's possible that the system was over-dampened and had too much driver control.
I've had a similar issue and switching the wires for longer ones softened things up.
I’ve had one of those amps for a while and it’s very versatile. I’ve used it for Buttkickers, a DIY Sub, a 2 channel music system and now a 2 channel TV system. It’s great to keep around for whatever you may need it for.
I had to smile during your video as I have nearly the same setup as a “back-up” to my less reliable vintage gear. I’m using a Schiit Saga preamp into a Lokius, then into a used Crown 1002. I’ve also added a standard Loki in the chain to function as a “loudness” control at low volumes and am working on adding a “mono” switch to complete the feature set that is so difficult to find in today’s audio gear. Audiophile? Perhaps not, but I like how it sounds.
Hi Randy, Im typing as im watching this video. I've done something very similar to what you did. This is the set up at my work place: LGV50S loaded with flac files playing with Power Amp pro (excellent graphic eq as well as parametric eq) > ifi Zen Dac v1 (xlr cables) > Crown xls 1002 > Elac UniFiUB5.
PowerAmp is loaded with features btw.
I use a 7 band EQ on everything I own for 40+ years now. If you were using the classic slide EQ his settings would have looked like the classic "V pattern" or the "gullwing". Knock the mids out while lifting the ends. I am also partial to QSC over Crown but I have found when using any of the limiter switches it changes the sound. Like the clipping limiter really cut a lot of the overall high end when not clipping. It was better just to let the Amps do power alone.
I had the Technics 33 band Graphic EQ and it was truly a beast. I bought it from the Navy Exchange in Kef, Iceland.
Thanks for another great video. I have a Crown XLS 1500 that I use with an SMSL DO100 DAC but I find that it doesn't sound good when using the digital volume control. Perhaps its because I listen at low levels and the data being thrown away is the "warmth" etc. Right now I'm using a Schiit Heresy from the SMSL RCA outputs and into the Crown RCA's. With this combo, I have a nice analog volume control that I can be sure is right down and have no possibility of a full volume DAC reset. Using the Schiit brings back the warmth and richness I have been looking for, as well as MUCH more powerful bass.
I don't know why having an additional high level stage results in such a large change in bass, but it does. I have found this will all amps since the 70's when I bypassed the high level stage of my preamp for my turntable. Although I had enough volume, the bass was far less powerful sounding. Hooking the high level stage back up restored the driving force and weight. This has been the case with every amplifier/dac/phono that I have tried and it has been a lot :). No need for equalization, the extra driving force and weight transforms thin sound and poor balance. Oh, and I tried turning the Crown level controls down low and increased the volume of the DAC and the sound was much better when direct connected but a pain in the arse to control when listening to TH-cam etc with a wide variety of levels.
Have you ever noticed this effect?
Completely agree about EQ/room correction/DSP since nobody has perfect room acoustics or perfect speakers. Do you have a calibrated mic such as the miniDSP Umik-1? I'd be curious to know what what kind of boost those eq knobs are doing and what the frequency response was at the MLP.
I used to own this amp and I got it mainly to do DJ stuff. Eventually I got powered speakers so I moved this amp to my home studio. I eventually got a Marantz amp that I had my eye on and an Emotiva amp. Despite putting out less power both of those AB amps sound way better than the Crown.
I did find the Crown really good for doing parties and as you can imagine we DJs certainly use EQ at our gigs. At parties and other events people are not doing critical listening. They are mostly just enjoying their so called favorite songs when you play them.
For me it's Class D when I am out doing gigs and need an efficient amp that can get loud. At home I need an AB amp that can establish a nice soundstage with depth and clarity.
Glad to see you circled back on this amp. I have several crown amps powering my Elac Unifi theater and I think its the best bang for your buck when it comes to powering home theater rooms. I have them hooked up to a Mini DSP HD to help with bass management as well.
Thanks Randy, nice overview on how to improve the sound of equipment that we may already have or considering.
Always use my little 9 band eq. Some tracks just don't sound good on some speakers and some speakers just can't handle some frequencies very well. When the windows start to vibrate you just cut down the lows a little without turning it down.
Loving my Loki Max! …going into my Schiit Freya + ….My system sounds GREAT on good recordings, no adjustments needed…but all recordings vary…so I just use my MAX to tweak certain recordings here and there. LOVE IT! The 3 preset buttons on the remote ROCK! 😎👍🏼😎
Really interesting! I've learnt some thing new today, thanks to you, Sir! So, the EQ can be used with an integrated amp, which has Pre Out, Main In, like the Audiolab 6000A, exactly like a signal path in the pro world, a studio, with the Sends and Returns, for the hardware processors. Really cool. Nice video, as always.
Have you heard of the 3 stages of EQ?
It’s from live sound.
1. Instrument EQ
2. System EQ
3. Room EQ
Pro systems work around these stages.
The method of getting these stages configured correctly will allow the PA system to function optimally, and therefore sound great. All of this has been nailed down in pro audio. Applying live pro audio principles to home audio will cut out so much BS.
Lots of pro audio is great value, compared to pretentious audiophile hifi.
Hifi speakers are too coloured.
Pro speakers need to be EQ’d for the room they are in. Start everything as flat as possible then work from there.
That’s why pro amps and speakers are ideally flat in response.
EQing a rubbish hifi though is like trying to “polish a turd”.
thanks Richard. I've been trying to put together in my head why some really decent live instrument kit hangs together with some otherwise fairly standard balanced coax cables, yet there is a market for hifi cable with the price of a small car. Live audio... powered wharfedale onstage monitors with Wharfedale cones and a 300W amp and a 5 band EQ etc for sensible prices
My Hi-fi is all pro audio gear. I love the immensely powerful amplifiers and the high efficiency speakers that can take gobs of power. I can shake the house with just 1 watt... And I still have 4299 watts in reserve... I love my life and my wife for letting me have such fun toys..
I am running two XLS -1500's off of an old Pioneer VSX-1017TXV. One in stereo (525W/525W) via the high pass filter set at 59Hz. The second one I run bridged (1550W) in low pass to a passive sub. The LFE output doesn't put out enough voltage for the bass so I had to but a Rolls MB15b converter and use the balanced inputs on the sub amp. Even at high volumes, I can barely get the led's to move on the amps.
Nothing like having plenty of headroom.
I run four of those in my theater.
2402 on the front mains
1502 bridged on the center channel
1502 for the side surrounds
1502 for the rear surrounds
Four Atmos speakers running off the Yamaha RX-A3080
Unlimited headroom !!!
Of course you need an EQ! No speaker, amp, room or recording is the same. I've worked with audio in professional settings for 10 years, EQ is everything (kind of)
Thank you for a good video.
I love the way you just “do things “
Improvise and see what happens
It’s inspired
and great viewing
Great review. Almost bought this amp but the DSP and price kept me away and went for the Behringer A800. Glad I did! Nice full sound for class D! And $100 cheaper!
I will always use tone controls and a loudness switch (if available)! After all, only the listener needs to be happy with the way his system sounds! Great video Randy and the production just keep getting better!
I really don't understand how "audiophiles" can call themselves audiophiles and claim that EQ should not be used. Do they not know that even the best concert halls specifically designed for sound ALWAYS use EQ when they use a PA system?
It's ignorance to a degree and snobbery for the rest. There is also a learning curve with EQ.changing one band not only affects that band, but also those immediately adjacent. You have to be willing to learn.
Exactly equalizer are used constantly all through a concert
@@josephvanalstyne4049 I have been doing small hall commercial and church sound for 40 years...each room has many hot and cold frequencies, so it is necessary to eq EVERY ROOM.
@@josephvanalstyne4049 ...and the recording process.
There are so many variables in audio that any tool is a useful tool in the tool box :)
I bought a Behringer 15band eq about a year ago it was probably the best upgrade I could buy! I won't live without one as long as I have speakers lol I use it on an older Yamaha 5.1 receiver powering Sony sscs5's. I loved them before but now with a proper eq tuning they are pretty badass!
I had the Loki for years now and just got a Lokius a few weeks back and I love it! I don't turn on my system without EQ, I think that it is essential; because I want to hear music how *I* want to hear it and that, to me, is no sin. Love your reviews as always. I've been wondering about the Crown but I'm still a bit shy of Class D.
Very interesting stuff Randy! I used to have an eq in my system back in the 80's. It definitely made things sound better. Today I have an integrated amp with no tone controls and I don't have an eq. What's interesting is my current system sounds great to me without any tone controls or an eq. So I'm reluctant to add an eq to mess with it. Maybe I've done a great job of matching all my components and speakers or my hearing has changed over the years. I do think eq's have a place if you aren't 100% satisfied with the sound you are hearing and need to tweak it. Nothing wrong with using an eq to tweak your sound.
As a live sound engineer, i used EQ, compressor, limiters... And the tweaks was why it sounded good !
The Yamaha variable loudness stuff came out when I was in college in the 70s? Loved it! Couldn't afford it.
I have a Crown XLi2500 to power my CV SL 15s. Not hear to argue about " real" Cerwin Vega vs "new" CV, but I love these speakers, they serve their purpose well. Back to the XLi. Great AB amp, pretty neutral sound with massive power. I feed it balanced with my ADI 2 dac, which has an EQ and loudness function and man it sounds good. I can crank those 15s and it is crystal clear all the way up te volume knob. I can't get it close to full power, my house may collapse. I generally listen at normal volumes, but I got the 15s for when I want to rock out.
Another trick you can use with this and other Class D amps is running a tube pre amp. I use an FX Audio Tube 01 with some old GE tubes and it warms up the sound nicely takes a little edge off. To me the fullness I get from speakers when they are thrown gobs of power outweighs some of the tonal issues that some class D amps have. The XTZ-Edge A2-300 (and now 400) are a little more refined and lower noise floor amps that fit a little better in home audio installations but give Crown like power.
What is the difference between the FX-AUDIO TUBE-01 and the 03 model ? Thanks 😊
@@AudiophileTommy The tube-01 is just a volume control, the tube 03 has tone controls as well. This adds op amps to the circuit. Some people prefer the more direct tube 01 and others like the tube 03 as the tone controls open up the possibility of op amp rolling as well as tube rolling. There's also a tube-01 J model that ads a minus 6 db switch which is useful as the output has a lot of gain that can be a bit much for some amps. I've got the 01-J as the standard 01 didn't give me much play in the volume control till it got too loud.
@@robertgruber982 Thanks Robert !!❤️
That Schiit EQ is amazing. I use it in my setups. What I found that works good is adding a tube buffer between the source and eq. That will tame down the highs and everything will come alive. You can simple use a cheap tube buffer or the schiit freya plus. Adding the tube to a class d is the best way to fix the hardness. The next level is using good NOS Tubes in the right spot.
I love the fact that my Integra DTR 50.3 has a great built in EQ. Easy to dial in different music.
Lets agree that power amplifier, don't add or subtract or change anything to the signal, but just amplifies it to drive your speakers. That's it and it does it very very good and loud. Sound comes from anything else in your equipment, like you said, don't be afraid to use eq.
Great video! I have always used an EQ, but mainly because the software varies!! Also, have you ever played around with a parametric equalizer??? I love mine.
I use a Bellari EQ570 on my desktop system . . . and a Realistic 31-2000 on my main 2-channel system . . . . Depending on the source, there always seems to been the need for slight adjustments to make the audio sound right for me. 🙂🙂
I wish all receivers & integrated amps had three things: variable loudness, parametric EQ (at least 3 bands), and lastly an adjustable compressor that varies with the volume level. The last one is most useful for late night TV viewing.
You're the only reviewer who doesn't make funny faces and twitches his nose to tone controls, loudness switches and equalizers. I still have an MXR 114 equalizer from the late 70's/early 80's and maybe it's time to get it out of retirement and "experiment" as soon as I get the SX 780 back from service. Then the question is, what to do with the SX 550? Looks and sounds great!
No, actually Steve Guttenberg "The Audiophiliac" who reviews a lot of hi end gear, is VERY pro eq/tone control.
Thomas on stereo, another hi end reviewer, has incorporated tone control in his soon to be launched, tube integrated.
@@sonnyhenriksen9398 I watch Steve quite regularly and frankly I must have missed his "liking" of tone, loudness control and equalizers, on the other hand I do not know Thomas.
@@francescotenti193 search for Steves review of the Schiit Loki😉
I have a crown xli2500 as a home stereo with custom made speakers and it sounds great very detailed and earth shaking when need to be..
Thanks!
thank you so much for the support!
Cool video! As an "audio enthusiast" who values bang for the buck (that is why I like you by the way) I find it funny that "audiophiles" usually abhor tone controls and, God forbid, EQ. No room or speaker is perfect, along with attention to speaker placement and some modicum of room treatment, EQ done correctly can make a huge difference in bringing the best out of any system for it's owner.
Using a HTPC plugged into a large 4K TV as my music and video server. Using the PC allows running Equalizer APO (which is a free download), to EQ and REW with a mic to measure my system. Used a 10 band Soundcraftsmen graphic EQ by ear back in the day with the usual "smile curve". Having a fully tweakable paramedic EQ paired with REW and using my big ass 4K TV to interact with the system and monitor the EQ progress is like dying and going to tone control heaven.
The complaints about the Crown are so easily fixed in EQ that they are barely worth mentioning. The Crown has improved greatly over the years, it has accurate clean sound, it is cool running, and it inexpensive for the stupid amount of performance it provides. I think the Crown amp is just awesome and the ultimate bang for the buck.
I added the Art Cleanbox Pro balance/unbalance converter between my avr and crown... Made a world of difference!!!
I use two 1/8 guitar jack to RCA converters to run dual subwoofers off my crown and it is incredible. I also have four xls bridged to mono daisy chained off my Schiit Freya. I am very happy with it once the subwoofers are dialed in.
When using eq or dsp I like to run pink noise and a calibrated measuring mic to set a reference curve, then tune to taste.
I liked the video, Randy, but I have so little real understanding of how to use an EQ beyond 3 controls (bass, mid and treble) that I’d probably just be wasting time. Maybe you could do a video on that?
You are correct sir yet that is why a good eq has the volume slide so you can adjust volume through the eq yet only to so much
You should use what ever component you like in your stereo system , after all it is your system . Enjoy the music !!!
i love listening music with eq. that's why 80's sound system is still the best to me.
Equalizers are plentiful they can often be found in thrift stores yet because " purist audiophiles " won't use them. Then the pro sound market is very competitive and plentiful you can get 30 bandwidth per channel (1/3 octave) for around 300 dollars. I have used them many times especially in multi amped systems with multiple speakers. All you need is one good preamp and you can put the EQ in between the preamp and either an integrated amplifier or power amp. The result can be amazing when you start tailoring speakers for a specialty and blending the different ones together. It's also useful to knock out the lowest frequencies for the smaller drivers that don't do deep base very well and leave that to the subwoofer and large drivers. The best benefit is you get to spend many hours turning everything and spending quality time with your hobby. I was always on a low budget so I got all of mine at a thrift store. The 10 band dusl channel ones were most useful ( those 7 band ones were just a little too wide per band and it was good to be able too tune left and right differently) and those with the spectrum analyzer were fun. The spectrum analyzer functions as a sorta power meter when you use between the preamp and power amplifier I found it useful that way. I could see if I was overdriving individual amps and what I was doing to individual drivers in the speakers. That really helped to keep everything clean and clear at high volume.
Eq aside, the Crown will sound like whatever pre you hook it up to. The SU9 is fine as a dac but the pre section is unknown. Major sound differences come from the pre section and not the power section, thats where sound is usually manipulated at by the designer of the amp.
I made 2 power amps that are neutral, but spent AGES making a preamp that suited my room, system and preferences. The preamp and speakers are the most important components to choose. P.S my preamp has tone control, and it is so crucial.
Thanks for the interesting video. Crown amps are great. I have 2 amps that I use to Bi amp my Cerwin Vega XLS 215 speakers.
I nearly sold them at one stage as I wasn't happy with the sound, until I set them up the way that they are now. My Yamaha H5000 amp runs mids and highs, and My Crown 2502 runs the 4 bass woofers through a low pass filter. However I am not using an EQ but I am using a Behringer 3 way active crossover.
My speakers are now loud and clear even at levels over 100db.
There is no distortion at all with all genres of music, pretty much.
Having said that I am not a huge listener of heavy metal but I play it on occasions. The system sounds amazing from all sources but nothing beats vinyl, especially 45rpm Masters.
I am however considering getting a rack mount EQ or a dynamic optimizer only because I love tuning and fiddling.
Harley Lovegrove the designer of the Sibelius single driver speaker, has a very interesting video on how he incorporates the Lyngdorf TDAI1120 into his listening room. (Pearl Acoustics Channel)
I use a Bob Carver PM-600 amp with the pre outs from a Denon AVR 1385 sent to some Klipsch towers.
I'm very pleased.
I've have the 2502 top model out that xls series 2.4kw bridged 4ohm .
They went up in price big time ever since
Love the energy in the video, your level of confidence and experience are showing!
EQ are needed to fix a room frequency response, this is the most important function of a Equalizer because you can change the amp, you can change the speakers of your hi-fi but you can’t change your living room
I just bought (and waiting for it to be ready) a Sansui Eight. One thing I like about the old receivers is that the preamp had jumpers to go into the amp. Essentially creating a preamp and amp in one box that allows me to hook up an EQ between the two. Something that you can’t do with modern gear unless you go full separates.
Music is for enjoyment. Those who say EQs are not allowed in HiFi are extremely closed minded. For most of us, the listening environments are greatly influenced by our listening room, no surprise there for those with even an elementary knowledge of sound reproduction. That said, I picked up a DBX 31 x 2 channel eq which is normally designed for professional audio but bottom line works wonders in our home environments. Now understand, this is not a piece of audio jewelry, not even close. These units were designed to be put in place, hidden away, and once satisfied with adjustments, simply left alone. Please understand a 31 x 2 band eq takes way more practice and/or experience in identifying frequencies and their adjustments. If your willing to put in the time and don't care about the looks, I think you'd be extremely pleased with the results. Got mine used on Ebay around $100 and my EARS love it. Cheers and hope this helps someone.
I had a 10-band stereo eq. It could not correct for resonances of the room. Ended up running flat all the time. Now I just use base and treble controls on my Luxman integrated, and only to fix poor recordings.
As a live sound guy, everytime i figure i dont need to bring eq for this small gig, I regret it. Its a humping 3u ARX unit with high and low pass filters and it works great. Mostly use it to cut problem frequencies and " flatten the room response ". I own digital provessors as well, but none do it as swiftly and sound as good as the ARX. Indispensible tool.