I have one machine with with centroid and i have kind of a Stockholm syndrome for it as I'm a bit scared to learn something new one of my smarter friends has insisted we use fluid CNC for a plasma build this has really helped give context to that .. after watching clough 42 and other very polished youtubers i really love how rough and direct tthis video is great content keep at it ...
Mesa actually is very good with keeping products alive. I can still buy the same CF to IDE adapters I've got almost 25 years ago! The problems with availability are probably related to supply chain issues, and they're getting better, and many popular boards are in stock. It's bad luck if the board in your machine dies and you can't get it next day, but usually it doesn't take long until they show up in the store. The cards are not easy to kill, but if your application pushes them to the limits, it's good to have a cold spare on hand anyway.
Lots of information on the mesa via the Linux CNC community. Not sure what information you need but look up "compatible Linux CNC Ethernet boards" and go from there
I did find this useful and intend to watch it again. There is a lot to digest. Instead of an RPi, I chose a Beaglebone Black, but I believe the same deal applies regardless what board is driving the thing. I have a Full Spectrum laser they refuse to help me with, and I know it's because I mouthed off, so whatever. I'm stuck with a machine I spent a LOT of money on, that does nothing. So fuck Full Spectrum. I yanked out whatever board they had in there and have been leaping down various rabbit holes trying to educate myself as I go. Thanks for posting 👍
Also, Mach4 kind of sucks. I am using an ethernet smooth stepper. That is what I have on my CNC router, and its just so overcomplicated. There are things on Mach4 that work on one of my laptops but not on the other. It sucks having to have a PC plugged in, and in a wood shop with lots of dust. The Wifi boards that work more like 3D printing firmware I think are the way of the future for CNC. FluidNC looks like it operates like 3D printing firmware. Being able to use a tablet or phone to run your machine wirelessly is so nice.
Mach4 is the best thing since sliced bread and Beer . Just learn how to use mach4 software , and do the wiring correctly WITH decent name brand components. Don't forget to actually read the instructions on the pins and ports tabs. Problem solved . One of the best and most universal control softwares available.
@ I had no issue getting it up and running. It is buggy. It has been OK, we have completed quite a few projects with it. It is just buggy and clunky and dated. It seems like there would be something better now? At least you are recommending Mach 4, and not one of the strange people that tell you that you need to find a 20 year old computer and run Mach 3 on the parallel port. That’s just dumb.
Grbl is the software. Did you try shielding the usb cable? Or moving the arduino away from the machine (just make the stepper motor wires go to the cnc, not the usb cable)?
yes ive tried shielding the cable, computer, laptop, etc. Even used sheet metal trying some faraday shield. And it helps alot, but I noticed glitches and issues even without running the plasma cutter. I first used grbl on my very first cnc mill and there was random times it would move and not stop. Again no plasma cutting was done with that, or any other interferance. Simple movements and other random things causes unreliability, which any type is too much for a CNC machine. Cutting tools can easily cost hundreths of dollars, and the parts you are cutting can cost much more especially with lots of time and effort to cut it just to lose it all midway. FluidNC is simply much better in every way.
@@Rowow that's very strange to me because i use grbl exclusively for many years with no problems. The only problem i ever had was with the limit switches. The magnetic router induced current in the gpio wires to the switch and caused false limit switch presses. I fixed it easily by adding a 10uF capacitor at the switch (not near the arduino). It works flawless. I wonder what the difference between your setup and mine is?! I have the arduino uno 3' away from the cnc. Only the limit switches and stepper motor cables go to the cnc.
@@TheRainHarvester I was using a laptop and maybe it wasnt properly grounded. But control over USB is annoying. You still need another computer. Much better to have the code stored and ran on the board itself. When you have many cnc machines it makes operating them so much easier. I can run them anywhere I want to from any device. simply need to change the IP to swap between them. the only time I dont suggest it is for high precision machining where a MPG controller is needed and especially for lathe indexing for threading
@@Rowow yeah it's s good at strategy. Does fluid nc still have emergency stop/pause button? Can you still broadcast a move request while the machine is cutting? Or does wifi get interference ? What is the issue with lathe thread indexing on fluid nc?
Linuxcnc on Raspberry 5 and Byte2bot´s RPI to FPGA card (30€) and than you can use any parralel breakout board, and you can attach a wdc wireless china pendant (~100€ 4-6 axis) via usb dongle to the raspberrys usb port, so you have a standalone controller, and you can connect the raspberry per Wlan or ethernet to you network and remote controll it or upload files to the machine from your pc
Still more expensive and way more complicated. Though I really would like to do that option if it can result in indexing for a CNC lathe (cutting thread on bolts) Haven't found a good controller setup for that other than linuxcnc and a mesa card
@@Rowow a rpi mesa shield is in eu ~200, so its cheaper, but i f you want to use encoder you need a small procerssor for the real time calculations(like the chips on mesa cards) but a esp32 can and a Raspberry as main computer can technniccly do the same as a mesa and raspberry
@@Rowow yes that is the point, luckly i just want to build a mill and threading can bedone with v profile endmills and spiral movement and small diameter than with hand, but with a lathe and without thread die you will not come around a encoder on the spindle, but i dont know if the DDCSV 3,1 does support encoders, it´s a nice thing execpt iths limitations and non clean code previev (in3d) like Linuxcnc.
All controllers give more then enough accuracy than you need. All about your linear rails and motors you are using. The best would be Linux CNC using a glass linear scale to feed back the exact position to the controller
For best accuracy your wanting to use ball screws and servo motors. Not lead screws and stepper motors. Closed loop steppers are a step up but servo motors is what higher end commercial machines use.
It's not a software limitation it's a hardware development problem. Industrial machines use custom hardware to run code and drive servos and monitor feedback in real time. All of the PC based systems blindly send move commands with very little to no feedback. Servos and closed loop stepers used with PC based systems use drivers that do individual axis level feedback that sends nothing back to the control. Aren't many companies out there want to make the specialized hardware if there isn't a machine to go with it.
Plenty of it being done for 3d printers. And the fluidnc project proves its possible. Just the code like Linux CNC is designed for a outdated model, where cheap powerful microprocessors were not available
Linuxcnc does allow real time position feedback. You can have linuxcnc read the servo encoder signal, but most of the time, they will just add scales and leave the servo control loop alone.
Sure it does . It Sends an alarm signal to Mach4 and stops Gcode immediately for any axis drive faults as well as any Excess following error which would fault Mach4 out as well and stop G-code. This is pretty basics stuff. Maybe take a few minutes and actually learn something before running off about how it's no good.😂
@@Rowowcool what did you use? Acorn Oak allinonedc hickory? I have acorn and oak and am quite happy with them have linuxcnc too and happy with that, what would you say makes fluidnc stand out? Im not so worried about overall cost although it is a factor, reliability is important and so is very stable predictable software with updates for bugs etc.
@weldchip hickory and acorn. As I already explained fluid nc is a small standalone controller. You don't need a additional computer. It's 2024 we have microprocessors so cheap and powerful don't gotta run a whole damn PC
wifi has much better error correcting than USB. Also all of the code is computed and ran on the board itself. The only time important data is transferred is before you run the machine, aka when the plasma is off. It stores the file on a SD card on board and computes it from there
@@Rowow that makes sense. Wifi only for transmitting the gcode beforehand. So its just motor wires out? What motor controller chip? Do you have limit switches?
@@TheRainHarvester You can add motor controller chips similar to a 3d printer board however it has the option which I use for external stepper motor drivers. I dont use limit switches as its alot easier to zero the machine to the workpiece
Today if need build new cnc machine i select perfect option , linuxcnc and rasbperrypi4 plus mesa card whit thats. best option what have today can buy.
Nah, I just kept buying western products and systems that kept breaking and having issues. I spent lots of time carefully organizing my wires just to completely change major systems out 5 times. I will admit some of it was simple errors and learning lessons on my part as I was learning. But I think I finally got a system I what so I'll organize the wires soon. Haven't used the plasma cutter in a while
Plus a monitor, keyboard, mouse. If you can find a PC locally and are willing to waste 1-2 hours driving to and from to pick it up. And dealing with damage and other issues, most likely needing to buy a SSD to replace the failing harddrive, or ram/etc thats causing issues for the PC to boot
I don’t want to rely on the internet to manufacture. I want to be able to turn my generator and work in case everything or anything else fails. I want all my manufacture to be isolated as much as possible from the “hackers” “governments (domestic or foreign)” “big corporations” “persons of interest”. Don’t get me wrong, should I fail it’s because of me; not because there is an outage somewhere.
It doesn't connect to the internet, It connects to the local network. If you want it even more closed-loop, you can set it up as an access point, where it creates it's own little network that no hackers, governments, corporations or people can get into without being inside your house.
Which don't work half the time and again is a added cost. Plus you still need a computer to attach it to. For $100 better to get a monitor keyboard mouse etc with the computer. Or just do fluid nc and control it from any device
All that money you saved by not cleaning your shop could have been put towards an centroid acorn. How are you giving advice while showing a total rats nest wiring job?
Its called prototyping. I had the wiring job great but after changing out multiple controllers I stopped putting in the work until I found something I liked. Now I do and gotten it fixed
Hahaha 😂😅😂 I commented the same . Atleast attempt to look like you know what your talking about with a tiny bit of organization. I'm even willing to come give him a hand cleaning it up!
Just do ethernet smooth stepper with Mach4! The little extra money spent on good control software and electronics and you'll save your self thousands over the Chinese junk
I've spoken to many people in the industry across many industries and the shift is completely changing. Western products break and are more junk that Chinese stuff. Sorry but that's just a fact today. Fixing them is far more difficult and typically impossible through no information, absurd hardware implementation, or outright refusal by the manufacturer to sell parts. Chinese stuff typically uses off the shelf components and they give you their schematics and information without hesitation. So why pay for a device you can't fix yourself, and breaks more often, than for a Chinese product that lasts longer, can fix yourself, and most importantly for the same exact price you can buy 5 of the Chinese stuff. So can buy a bunch extra for spares and it'll last 10x longer than western shit. I support American manufacturing and plan to start a electric excavator factory soon, but we need to end our corruption and actually make good products. Instead of removing features and charging more for it later. Perfect example, subscription to heated seats in your car. Absolutely absurd
Never dropped that link 7:23
wiki.fluidnc.com/en/hardware/existing_hardware
Thanks for deep review man. It's really helpful. Subscribed! Good luck:)
I have one machine with with centroid and i have kind of a Stockholm syndrome for it as I'm a bit scared to learn something new one of my smarter friends has insisted we use fluid CNC for a plasma build this has really helped give context to that .. after watching clough 42 and other very polished youtubers i really love how rough and direct tthis video is great content keep at it ...
This was a great help. Thanks for the video mate!
Mesa actually is very good with keeping products alive. I can still buy the same CF to IDE adapters I've got almost 25 years ago! The problems with availability are probably related to supply chain issues, and they're getting better, and many popular boards are in stock. It's bad luck if the board in your machine dies and you can't get it next day, but usually it doesn't take long until they show up in the store. The cards are not easy to kill, but if your application pushes them to the limits, it's good to have a cold spare on hand anyway.
@Rowow please could you tell more about the Misa (a link or something else), just to see what it can do and just for general knowledge. Thank
Lots of information on the mesa via the Linux CNC community. Not sure what information you need but look up "compatible Linux CNC Ethernet boards" and go from there
I did find this useful and intend to watch it again. There is a lot to digest.
Instead of an RPi, I chose a Beaglebone Black, but I believe the same deal applies regardless what board is driving the thing.
I have a Full Spectrum laser they refuse to help me with, and I know it's because I mouthed off, so whatever. I'm stuck with a machine I spent a LOT of money on, that does nothing.
So fuck Full Spectrum. I yanked out whatever board they had in there and have been leaping down various rabbit holes trying to educate myself as I go.
Thanks for posting 👍
thanks for the video ;)
What controller gives the best accuracy..? Looking for very high accuracy (semi-pro level..)
Also, Mach4 kind of sucks. I am using an ethernet smooth stepper. That is what I have on my CNC router, and its just so overcomplicated. There are things on Mach4 that work on one of my laptops but not on the other. It sucks having to have a PC plugged in, and in a wood shop with lots of dust. The Wifi boards that work more like 3D printing firmware I think are the way of the future for CNC. FluidNC looks like it operates like 3D printing firmware. Being able to use a tablet or phone to run your machine wirelessly is so nice.
Mach4 is the best thing since sliced bread and Beer .
Just learn how to use mach4 software , and do the wiring correctly WITH decent name brand components.
Don't forget to actually read the instructions on the pins and ports tabs.
Problem solved .
One of the best and most universal control softwares available.
@ I had no issue getting it up and running. It is buggy. It has been OK, we have completed quite a few projects with it. It is just buggy and clunky and dated. It seems like there would be something better now? At least you are recommending Mach 4, and not one of the strange people that tell you that you need to find a 20 year old computer and run Mach 3 on the parallel port. That’s just dumb.
Grbl is the software.
Did you try shielding the usb cable?
Or moving the arduino away from the machine (just make the stepper motor wires go to the cnc, not the usb cable)?
yes ive tried shielding the cable, computer, laptop, etc. Even used sheet metal trying some faraday shield. And it helps alot, but I noticed glitches and issues even without running the plasma cutter. I first used grbl on my very first cnc mill and there was random times it would move and not stop. Again no plasma cutting was done with that, or any other interferance. Simple movements and other random things causes unreliability, which any type is too much for a CNC machine.
Cutting tools can easily cost hundreths of dollars, and the parts you are cutting can cost much more especially with lots of time and effort to cut it just to lose it all midway. FluidNC is simply much better in every way.
@@Rowow that's very strange to me because i use grbl exclusively for many years with no problems.
The only problem i ever had was with the limit switches. The magnetic router induced current in the gpio wires to the switch and caused false limit switch presses.
I fixed it easily by adding a 10uF capacitor at the switch (not near the arduino). It works flawless.
I wonder what the difference between your setup and mine is?!
I have the arduino uno 3' away from the cnc. Only the limit switches and stepper motor cables go to the cnc.
@@TheRainHarvester I was using a laptop and maybe it wasnt properly grounded. But control over USB is annoying. You still need another computer. Much better to have the code stored and ran on the board itself. When you have many cnc machines it makes operating them so much easier. I can run them anywhere I want to from any device. simply need to change the IP to swap between them.
the only time I dont suggest it is for high precision machining where a MPG controller is needed and especially for lathe indexing for threading
@@Rowow yeah it's s good at strategy. Does fluid nc still have emergency stop/pause button?
Can you still broadcast a move request while the machine is cutting? Or does wifi get interference ?
What is the issue with lathe thread indexing on fluid nc?
@@TheRainHarvester yes and you can wire a switch to it cause obviously WiFi may time out or whatever
Hi compliments, a simple question how you integrate a THC on FluidNC?
great question but sadly I havent set that up so im not sure. If I set up THC ill make a video on it though
👍
Linuxcnc on Raspberry 5 and Byte2bot´s RPI to FPGA card (30€) and than you can use any parralel breakout board, and you can attach a wdc wireless china pendant (~100€ 4-6 axis) via usb dongle to the raspberrys usb port, so you have a standalone controller, and you can connect the raspberry per Wlan or ethernet to you network and remote controll it or upload files to the machine from your pc
Still more expensive and way more complicated. Though I really would like to do that option if it can result in indexing for a CNC lathe (cutting thread on bolts)
Haven't found a good controller setup for that other than linuxcnc and a mesa card
@@Rowow a rpi mesa shield is in eu ~200, so its cheaper, but i f you want to use encoder you need a small procerssor for the real time calculations(like the chips on mesa cards) but a esp32 can and a Raspberry as main computer can technniccly do the same as a mesa and raspberry
@@Geri_crs one thing I learned the hard way is technically means a lot of time and work. This is one hole that needs a much better solution for
@@Rowow yes that is the point, luckly i just want to build a mill and threading can bedone with v profile endmills and spiral movement and small diameter than with hand, but with a lathe and without thread die you will not come around a encoder on the spindle, but i dont know if the DDCSV 3,1 does support encoders, it´s a nice thing execpt iths limitations and non clean code previev (in3d) like Linuxcnc.
Stm32 breakout red board flashed for UGS.
What controller gives the best accuracy..? Looking for very high accuracy (semi-pro level..) thanks for good video!
All controllers give more then enough accuracy than you need. All about your linear rails and motors you are using. The best would be Linux CNC using a glass linear scale to feed back the exact position to the controller
For best accuracy your wanting to use ball screws and servo motors. Not lead screws and stepper motors. Closed loop steppers are a step up but servo motors is what higher end commercial machines use.
It's not a software limitation it's a hardware development problem. Industrial machines use custom hardware to run code and drive servos and monitor feedback in real time. All of the PC based systems blindly send move commands with very little to no feedback. Servos and closed loop stepers used with PC based systems use drivers that do individual axis level feedback that sends nothing back to the control.
Aren't many companies out there want to make the specialized hardware if there isn't a machine to go with it.
Plenty of it being done for 3d printers. And the fluidnc project proves its possible. Just the code like Linux CNC is designed for a outdated model, where cheap powerful microprocessors were not available
@@Rowow Which 3d printers provide closed loop feedback for their motion control?
@@timogross8191 I don't know I dont buy 3d printers I make them. Just add it on its not hard
Linuxcnc does allow real time position feedback. You can have linuxcnc read the servo encoder signal, but most of the time, they will just add scales and leave the servo control loop alone.
Sure it does . It Sends an alarm signal to Mach4 and stops Gcode immediately for any axis drive faults as well as any Excess following error which would fault Mach4 out as well and stop G-code.
This is pretty basics stuff.
Maybe take a few minutes and actually learn something before running off about how it's no good.😂
So have you actually tried centroid? You put it in the title then said nothing about your experience with it.
Yes in my last company I worked with we used centroid alot
@@Rowowcool what did you use? Acorn Oak allinonedc hickory? I have acorn and oak and am quite happy with them have linuxcnc too and happy with that, what would you say makes fluidnc stand out? Im not so worried about overall cost although it is a factor, reliability is important and so is very stable predictable software with updates for bugs etc.
@weldchip hickory and acorn. As I already explained fluid nc is a small standalone controller. You don't need a additional computer. It's 2024 we have microprocessors so cheap and powerful don't gotta run a whole damn PC
Fluidnc sounds great! Esp32 is great!
I'm surprised the plasma doesn't interfere with the radio signal of esp32!
Why not?!
wifi has much better error correcting than USB. Also all of the code is computed and ran on the board itself. The only time important data is transferred is before you run the machine, aka when the plasma is off. It stores the file on a SD card on board and computes it from there
@@Rowow my arduino is located very close to a 1990s xp laptop. It has a whopping 512k of memory but still boots xp faster than others boot win7,8,10 !
@@Rowow that makes sense. Wifi only for transmitting the gcode beforehand. So its just motor wires out? What motor controller chip?
Do you have limit switches?
@@TheRainHarvester You can add motor controller chips similar to a 3d printer board however it has the option which I use for external stepper motor drivers. I dont use limit switches as its alot easier to zero the machine to the workpiece
Today if need build new cnc machine i select perfect option , linuxcnc and rasbperrypi4 plus mesa card whit thats. best option what have today can buy.
I see you found a good home for that Keyscan panel. On the ground. 😄
God I hate Aurora. 🤮
Holy f->ING wiring nightmare buddy ! Time for some OCD training on wire management
Nah, I just kept buying western products and systems that kept breaking and having issues. I spent lots of time carefully organizing my wires just to completely change major systems out 5 times. I will admit some of it was simple errors and learning lessons on my part as I was learning. But I think I finally got a system I what so I'll organize the wires soon. Haven't used the plasma cutter in a while
I don't know why but you remind me of Giovanni Ribisi... lol
150 for old pc? could just buy the expansion card with the 25 pin port. these PCs are max 20-30€
Plus a monitor, keyboard, mouse. If you can find a PC locally and are willing to waste 1-2 hours driving to and from to pick it up. And dealing with damage and other issues, most likely needing to buy a SSD to replace the failing harddrive, or ram/etc thats causing issues for the PC to boot
RJ45 to db25 connector. Nuff said.
I don’t want to rely on the internet to manufacture. I want to be able to turn my generator and work in case everything or anything else fails.
I want all my manufacture to be isolated as much as possible from the “hackers” “governments (domestic or foreign)” “big corporations” “persons of interest”. Don’t get me wrong, should I fail it’s because of me; not because there is an outage somewhere.
The internet is only a ip connection there are no dependencies on 3rd parties.
It doesn't connect to the internet, It connects to the local network. If you want it even more closed-loop, you can set it up as an access point, where it creates it's own little network that no hackers, governments, corporations or people can get into without being inside your house.
MKSDLC32 v2.1......
No need to buy an old computer, there are parallel port cards
Which don't work half the time and again is a added cost. Plus you still need a computer to attach it to. For $100 better to get a monitor keyboard mouse etc with the computer.
Or just do fluid nc and control it from any device
All that money you saved by not cleaning your shop could have been put towards an centroid acorn.
How are you giving advice while showing a total rats nest wiring job?
Its called prototyping. I had the wiring job great but after changing out multiple controllers I stopped putting in the work until I found something I liked. Now I do and gotten it fixed
Hahaha 😂😅😂 I commented the same .
Atleast attempt to look like you know what your talking about with a tiny bit of organization.
I'm even willing to come give him a hand cleaning it up!
@@Rowowpost up some new updated videos!
Would love to check out!
Just do ethernet smooth stepper with Mach4!
The little extra money spent on good control software and electronics and you'll save your self thousands over the Chinese junk
I've spoken to many people in the industry across many industries and the shift is completely changing. Western products break and are more junk that Chinese stuff. Sorry but that's just a fact today. Fixing them is far more difficult and typically impossible through no information, absurd hardware implementation, or outright refusal by the manufacturer to sell parts. Chinese stuff typically uses off the shelf components and they give you their schematics and information without hesitation. So why pay for a device you can't fix yourself, and breaks more often, than for a Chinese product that lasts longer, can fix yourself, and most importantly for the same exact price you can buy 5 of the Chinese stuff. So can buy a bunch extra for spares and it'll last 10x longer than western shit.
I support American manufacturing and plan to start a electric excavator factory soon, but we need to end our corruption and actually make good products. Instead of removing features and charging more for it later. Perfect example, subscription to heated seats in your car. Absolutely absurd