Scripture is clear. The anti-Christ cannot be revealed while The Church is here/until The Rapture happens. To say otherwise is bearing false witness. Scripture clearly says in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2:2-6 "for that day shall not come....and that man of sin be revealed.... and now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time" The man of sin is active along with the false prophet for years, not days. For, the start of the tribulation commences when they sign the 7 year peace covenant which the anti-Christ is involved in and physically there. The anti-christ is revealed at that time, but the church is gone before that.. The first verse of 2nd Thessalonians establishes that Paul is writing to The Church and the second chapter Paul continues to establish who he is writing to. Those still against this information need to reconcile what Revelation chapter 5 tells us as well. 24 Men talking about their own redemption by His blood, around the throne of God, with gold crowns as rewards on their heads and John never asks who they are. They appear to be members of the raptured church to me and if any member of The Church is bodily in heaven then all the Church are there for we all go up together to meet the Lord in the air. THEY ARE THERE before the tribulation seals are opened which is in harmony with 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. Additionally, great Bible teachers have stated The Church will be raptured before Matthew 24:9 where Jesus/God tells us there will be killing of Jews in all nations. The Church did not exist until Acts chapter 2 so don't make the mistake that Jesus was talking about The Church in Matthew 24:9. Don’t be deceived by reading Rev. 5:10 in the wrong Bible. The correct source text translated is. “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.” Jesus’ Church will be raptured before Matthew 24:9. That point was mentioned by the great Bible teacher Reverend Dr. J. Vernon McGee. Post Tribbers disbelieve that saying worldwide persecution and killing is not the Jews that the verse/Jesus speaks about but The Church. Look at the news in 2024 and see that Jewish people, around the world, are experiencing frequent attacks and massive demonstrations against them ever since Gaza. Demonstrations and attacks are getting worse and Jewish people realize this is only the beginning. Some are fleeing their countries heading to Israel. As McGee stated, Jesus’ church would stand against worldwide killing of Jewish people if they were not raptured beforehand. Post Tribbers also laughingly think Matthew 24:31 is The Rapture. There is no coordinated instantaneous angelic airlift to bring the entire Church to God in the air at The Rapture. God Himself is there and does it all in a twinkling of an eye and all at one time; billions of angels are not involved in 1) resurrecting, 2) changing nor 3) bringing all the church before God at the rapture. Only one angel is listed as being with The Lord at the rapture and that angel shouts. Scripture says we all go up together; that is all of Jesus’ Church since Acts chapter 2. Matthew 24:31 is a separate event for a small number of people and does not fit with The Rapture at all.
@@joshuaa3075 I’ll review 2 Thes 2 in depth in Part 4 of this series. Let me ask you a question about it… who do you believe the restrainer is? (V7). If you believe it’s the church, and its removal is the Rapture (a common teaching), then I can show you that this contradicts a PreTrib Rapture. Therefore, to hold a PreTrib view you cannot believe the Restrainer is the church. -- As for the 24 theory, this has a big issue: if the first 12 are Israel, wouldn’t you have to assume that Israel got Raptured too? Obviously they didn’t, so the 24 are just past saints. The PostTrib theory is pretty solid, you shouldn’t discount it so quickly, stick around until part 4 and you’ll see why.
@@dustinwilcox6821 There must be a departure of The Church before the Day of The Lord can begin per 2nd Thessalonians 2. There will be total Apostasy once the church is gone. God's wrath begins in Chapter 6 of Revelation. The 24 is not a "theory" but in scripture. Daniel and Job said they would remain in the dust until the last day. There is nothing in scripture to tell us men are bodily in heaven. Especially those before The Church existed. There is nothing to tell us God took people from Israel (Moses, Daniel, Etc.) to sit around God's throne. The Church will be around God's throne and those men are representatives. As scripture tells us, we all go up together. So, nobody goes first and nobody in The Church will be left behind.
You can laugh about believers as long you want, the scriptures are not with you! The spirit of AC is active from the time Paul wrote 2.Thess 2 till now, The AC himself is in Prison now (Rev 17:8), he hinders the coming of the Lord and our gathering unto Him in the air (verse 1). His parousia and the Rapture and WHAT (neuter) hinders the coming of the Lord is the message of Paul. Your message is what hinders the AC to come. God will release him from the bottomless pit in His time (Rev 6:1) according to the working of Satan. The "he" in 2.Thess 2:7 is in Greek a masculine article, that exclude the Holy Spirit (neuter) and the church (she). Paul refers to a masculine person, that is mentioned before, the AC or the Lord, no others are mentioned. The AC withholds the coming of the Lord (it) at present, being in prison, until (aen me, verse 3) he will be revealed in his time. The neuter (revealing of the AC) and the one, that hinders it (coming of the Lord) are the same person. 2.Thess 2: 1-3 are clear in scripture, verses 6+7 refer to aen me in verse 3 (Mk 3:27, except). Rev 5 is not the church! The angel is a messenger and a resurrected OT Saint, they are the only ones that are present in Heaven, when John is caught up (Rev 1:1, 7:13) with a resurrected body. He speaks to John, that reveals the time. The Rapture is at the 7th trump (Rev 10:7+11:15-18) not before the last 7 years, on the last day, not before. Yeshua spoke 3 1/2 years only to the Jews, do not miss Mk 3:37 and watch, you could miss the Lord, the Olivet Discourse belongs to all believers. Scripture says that the angels gather the wheat into the barn (Mat 13:30) unto Him (2.Thess 2:1). Mat 24:29-31 is the Rapture, HIS elect are believers in Him, that are gathered by angels. They are already there to escort His elect unto HIM. They are 2 events, but the same day, not 7 years apart (Luke 17:29-31; the selfsame day in( Gen 7:11+13).
@@benny-yj7pq you’re well studied Benny. Just to clarify, are you saying the restrained statements are about Christ’s return, rather than the AC revealing? And so the AC must be revealed before Christ’s return?
You are much softer than Assemblies of God would see Post-trib before. I believe in Post-trib, but we go to Heaven, after the wrath of God, the selfsame day (Gen 7 :11+13), the DAY of the LORD, one day (Zech 14:7), it says salvation and Sudden Destruction Wrath) is on His 2nd coming and not 7 years before (Biblehub Luke 17:29-37). I will prove this with scripture. You cannot argue with the time of the bible, what is written. The Rapture verse tells us, when the Rapture happens, and Paul knew the timing of the Rapture (1,Thess5:1). You say it is imminent, yes, if someone dies suddenly, it is imminent, he stands before the LORD and I believe the Rapture will be the next two days, heavenly time, 2000 years our time, if he dies in the Lord 2000 years ago, imminent. The next resurrection is the First Resurrection after the Tribulation, 1000 years before the last one at the end of the Millennium (1.Cor 15:23+24; 51+52; Rev 20:4-6). It will be at the last day of grace (Rev 6:12-17), the end of the great Tribulation, followed by the Millennium. The presence of Him, who is seen sitting on His throne and reins (Rev 10:7+11:15-18), that is of the end and not the beginning. From chapter 7 is a detail of the time before. The Heavens are destroyed, no more (Job 14:12), the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the Rapture at His 2nd coming (Rev 16:15-20).
@@benny-yj7pq I’ll tell you a secret, I might not favor the AG view here 😉 🤫. Your view seems to be a variant of the PreWrath view. I’ve never seen the 1,000 years idea placed into it though. Do you do this bc “to God a day is like 1,000 years”?
@@dustinwilcox6821 The raptured are out of space and time, they are according to Yeshua with a glorified body, which rules with Christ forever ; also in the new earth and heaven. Yes, 2.Peter 3:8, in Heaven and eternity is a different time, not our time. I am not Pre-wrath, but Post-trib, the wrath comes also after the Rapture. But the Great tribulation is 3 1/2 years, the persecution is 3 1/2 years, the reign of the AC is 3 1/2 years (Dan 7:24+ Rev 12:6; Dan 12:7). Revelation confirms the 3 1/2 years. If we are clean in heart (repentance), we have not to go to the last 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation (Rev 12:6,17) and see testimony of Shepherd of Hermes. God will preserve us, Rapture is after the Great Tribulation. I am a Pentecostal with a gift of seeing, what is in the believer, light and darkness, most Pentecostals are more in darkness than in the light, in spite they speak in tongues, they believe as most believers not in the scriptures, but men's doctrine. The 2. heaven is darkness, the light makes his way through the darkness and has to fight sometimes (Gabriel in Daniel). We are only light, when we receive Yeshua, I have seen it, we go from darkness to light in a moment, in the baptism of the Holy Spirit we get more light, as 100 W has more light than 50W, The darkness comes in the believer, when he doesn't repent (1. John 9:1+Mat 6:12,14,15).
@@benny-yj7pq ah Mid Trib yes. It sounds like you don’t believe in the Millennium on earth? Or that the 1,000 years (Rev 20) is happening in Heaven (an AMillennial view)? Is that right? I’d have to pick your brain a bit if that’s the case.
@@dustinwilcox6821 The Lord will reign 1000 years. The timeline in revelation is not written in sequence. Rev 6:12-17 is the end of the Great Tribulation (Dan 7:12 all things are finished), it is the same time as Mat 24:29-31, the heavens are no more (Job 14:12). That is the end of tribulation (Rev 10:6+7+11:15-18), the 7th vial (Rev 16:15-20), is done, finished. It is the 2nd coming of the Lord, (Rev 19:15), the last day (Jn 6:39,44,45,54), the resurrection of the NT Saints and the Rapture including the Saints of the Tribulation, the 144000, the Jews, that come to faith in Yeshua (Rom 11:12), the 2 witnesses, that prophecy the last 3 1/2 years (Mal 4:1,3,5; Rev 11;12), all belong to the "church", His elect and bride and will be in the New Jerusalem, their inheritance, the Day of the Lord, that day is one day, 24 hours with morning and evening (Gen 1:8; Zech 14:7), the Millennium follows. The raptured are out of space and time in Heaven AND reining on earth. 1000 years equal as one day (2. Peter 3:8) for them. The survivors have a human body and cannot fly through the air and space in a speed of thought, for them the Millennium last 1000 years.
@@benny-yj7pq hm, your Scripture use is really solid. Except I’ve always been skeptical of the 1,000yr=1 day idea. Just doesn’t seem to fit the context and point. Where do you see the prophecies of peace in Israel fitting in?
Thanks Dustin, looking forwards to the next two classes you'll do 🙂
Jesus bless you bro .
David
@@Pure-Crystal-Fire you’re welcome!
@@dustinwilcox6821 🙂 Thanks 🙏
Scripture is clear. The anti-Christ cannot be revealed while The Church is here/until The Rapture happens. To say otherwise is bearing false witness.
Scripture clearly says in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2:2-6 "for that day shall not come....and that man of sin be revealed.... and now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time"
The man of sin is active along with the false prophet for years, not days. For, the start of the tribulation commences when they sign the 7 year peace covenant which the anti-Christ is involved in and physically there. The anti-christ is revealed at that time, but the church is gone before that..
The first verse of 2nd Thessalonians establishes that Paul is writing to The Church and the second chapter Paul continues to establish who he is writing to.
Those still against this information need to reconcile what Revelation chapter 5 tells us as well. 24 Men talking about their own redemption by His blood, around the throne of God, with gold crowns as rewards on their heads and John never asks who they are. They appear to be members of the raptured church to me and if any member of The Church is bodily in heaven then all the Church are there for we all go up together to meet the Lord in the air. THEY ARE THERE before the tribulation seals are opened which is in harmony with 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. Additionally, great Bible teachers have stated The Church will be raptured before Matthew 24:9 where Jesus/God tells us there will be killing of Jews in all nations. The Church did not exist until Acts chapter 2 so don't make the mistake that Jesus was talking about The Church in Matthew 24:9.
Don’t be deceived by reading Rev. 5:10 in the wrong Bible. The correct source text translated is. “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”
Jesus’ Church will be raptured before Matthew 24:9. That point was mentioned by the great Bible teacher Reverend Dr. J. Vernon McGee. Post Tribbers disbelieve that saying worldwide persecution and killing is not the Jews that the verse/Jesus speaks about but The Church. Look at the news in 2024 and see that Jewish people, around the world, are experiencing frequent attacks and massive demonstrations against them ever since Gaza. Demonstrations and attacks are getting worse and Jewish people realize this is only the beginning. Some are fleeing their countries heading to Israel. As McGee stated, Jesus’ church would stand against worldwide killing of Jewish people if they were not raptured beforehand.
Post Tribbers also laughingly think Matthew 24:31 is The Rapture. There is no coordinated instantaneous angelic airlift to bring the entire Church to God in the air at The Rapture. God Himself is there and does it all in a twinkling of an eye and all at one time; billions of angels are not involved in 1) resurrecting, 2) changing nor 3) bringing all the church before God at the rapture. Only one angel is listed as being with The Lord at the rapture and that angel shouts. Scripture says we all go up together; that is all of Jesus’ Church since Acts chapter 2. Matthew 24:31 is a separate event for a small number of people and does not fit with The Rapture at all.
@@joshuaa3075 I’ll review 2 Thes 2 in depth in Part 4 of this series.
Let me ask you a question about it… who do you believe the restrainer is? (V7). If you believe it’s the church, and its removal is the Rapture (a common teaching), then I can show you that this contradicts a PreTrib Rapture. Therefore, to hold a PreTrib view you cannot believe the Restrainer is the church.
--
As for the 24 theory, this has a big issue: if the first 12 are Israel, wouldn’t you have to assume that Israel got Raptured too? Obviously they didn’t, so the 24 are just past saints.
The PostTrib theory is pretty solid, you shouldn’t discount it so quickly, stick around until part 4 and you’ll see why.
@@dustinwilcox6821 There must be a departure of The Church before the Day of The Lord can begin per 2nd Thessalonians 2. There will be total Apostasy once the church is gone. God's wrath begins in Chapter 6 of Revelation.
The 24 is not a "theory" but in scripture. Daniel and Job said they would remain in the dust until the last day. There is nothing in scripture to tell us men are bodily in heaven. Especially those before The Church existed. There is nothing to tell us God took people from Israel (Moses, Daniel, Etc.) to sit around God's throne. The Church will be around God's throne and those men are representatives. As scripture tells us, we all go up together. So, nobody goes first and nobody in The Church will be left behind.
You can laugh about believers as long you want, the scriptures are not with you!
The spirit of AC is active from the time Paul wrote 2.Thess 2 till now, The AC himself is in Prison now (Rev 17:8), he hinders the coming of the Lord and our gathering unto Him in the air (verse 1). His parousia and the Rapture and WHAT (neuter) hinders the coming of the Lord is the message of Paul. Your message is what hinders the AC to come. God will release him from the bottomless pit in His time (Rev 6:1) according to the working of Satan.
The "he" in 2.Thess 2:7 is in Greek a masculine article, that exclude the Holy Spirit (neuter) and the church (she). Paul refers to a masculine person, that is mentioned before, the AC or the Lord, no others are mentioned. The AC withholds the coming of the Lord (it) at present, being in prison, until (aen me, verse 3) he will be revealed in his time. The neuter (revealing of the AC) and the one, that hinders it (coming of the Lord) are the same person. 2.Thess 2: 1-3 are clear in scripture, verses 6+7 refer to aen me in verse 3 (Mk 3:27, except).
Rev 5 is not the church! The angel is a messenger and a resurrected OT Saint, they are the only ones that are present in Heaven, when John is caught up (Rev 1:1, 7:13) with a resurrected body. He speaks to John, that reveals the time. The Rapture is at the 7th trump (Rev 10:7+11:15-18) not before the last 7 years, on the last day, not before.
Yeshua spoke 3 1/2 years only to the Jews, do not miss Mk 3:37 and watch, you could miss the Lord, the Olivet Discourse belongs to all believers.
Scripture says that the angels gather the wheat into the barn (Mat 13:30) unto Him (2.Thess 2:1).
Mat 24:29-31 is the Rapture, HIS elect are believers in Him, that are gathered by angels. They are already there to escort His elect unto HIM. They are 2 events, but the same day, not 7 years apart (Luke 17:29-31; the selfsame day in( Gen 7:11+13).
This comment is to @joshuaa3075.
@@benny-yj7pq you’re well studied Benny. Just to clarify, are you saying the restrained statements are about Christ’s return, rather than the AC revealing? And so the AC must be revealed before Christ’s return?
You are much softer than Assemblies of God would see Post-trib before. I believe in Post-trib, but we go to Heaven, after the wrath of God, the selfsame day (Gen 7 :11+13), the DAY of the LORD, one day (Zech 14:7), it says salvation and Sudden Destruction Wrath) is on His 2nd coming and not 7 years before (Biblehub Luke 17:29-37).
I will prove this with scripture. You cannot argue with the time of the bible, what is written. The Rapture verse tells us, when the Rapture happens, and Paul knew the timing of the Rapture (1,Thess5:1). You say it is imminent, yes, if someone dies suddenly, it is imminent, he stands before the LORD and I believe the Rapture will be the next two days, heavenly time, 2000 years our time, if he dies in the Lord 2000 years ago, imminent.
The next resurrection is the First Resurrection after the Tribulation, 1000 years before the last one at the end of the Millennium (1.Cor 15:23+24; 51+52; Rev 20:4-6). It will be at the last day of grace (Rev 6:12-17), the end of the great Tribulation, followed by the Millennium. The presence of Him, who is seen sitting on His throne and reins (Rev 10:7+11:15-18), that is of the end and not the beginning. From chapter 7 is a detail of the time
before. The Heavens are destroyed, no more (Job 14:12), the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the Rapture at His 2nd coming (Rev 16:15-20).
@@benny-yj7pq I’ll tell you a secret, I might not favor the AG view here 😉 🤫.
Your view seems to be a variant of the PreWrath view. I’ve never seen the 1,000 years idea placed into it though.
Do you do this bc “to God a day is like 1,000 years”?
@@dustinwilcox6821 The raptured are out of space and time, they are according to Yeshua with a glorified body, which rules with Christ forever ; also in the new earth and heaven. Yes, 2.Peter 3:8, in Heaven and eternity is a different time, not our time.
I am not Pre-wrath, but Post-trib, the wrath comes also after the Rapture. But the Great tribulation is 3 1/2 years, the persecution is 3 1/2 years, the reign of the AC is 3 1/2 years (Dan 7:24+ Rev 12:6; Dan 12:7). Revelation confirms the 3 1/2 years. If we are clean in heart (repentance), we have not to go to the last 3 1/2 year Great Tribulation (Rev 12:6,17) and see testimony of Shepherd of Hermes. God will preserve us, Rapture is after the Great Tribulation. I am a Pentecostal with a gift of seeing, what is in the believer, light and darkness, most Pentecostals are more in darkness than in the light, in spite they speak in tongues, they believe as most believers not in the scriptures, but men's doctrine. The 2. heaven is darkness, the light makes his way through the darkness and has to fight sometimes (Gabriel in Daniel). We are only light, when we receive Yeshua, I have seen it, we go from darkness to light in a moment, in the baptism of the Holy Spirit we get more light, as 100 W has more light than 50W, The darkness comes in the believer, when he doesn't repent (1. John 9:1+Mat 6:12,14,15).
@@benny-yj7pq ah Mid Trib yes. It sounds like you don’t believe in the Millennium on earth? Or that the 1,000 years (Rev 20) is happening in Heaven (an AMillennial view)? Is that right? I’d have to pick your brain a bit if that’s the case.
@@dustinwilcox6821 The Lord will reign 1000 years. The timeline in revelation is not written in sequence. Rev 6:12-17 is the end of the Great Tribulation (Dan 7:12 all things are finished), it is the same time as Mat 24:29-31, the heavens are no more (Job 14:12). That is the end of tribulation (Rev 10:6+7+11:15-18), the 7th vial (Rev 16:15-20), is done, finished. It is the 2nd coming of the Lord, (Rev 19:15), the last day (Jn 6:39,44,45,54), the resurrection of the NT Saints and the Rapture including the Saints of the Tribulation, the 144000, the Jews, that come to faith in Yeshua (Rom 11:12), the 2 witnesses, that prophecy the last 3 1/2 years (Mal 4:1,3,5; Rev 11;12), all belong to the "church", His elect and bride and will be in the New Jerusalem, their inheritance, the Day of the Lord, that day is one day, 24 hours with morning and evening (Gen 1:8; Zech 14:7), the Millennium follows. The raptured are out of space and time in Heaven AND reining on earth. 1000 years equal as one day (2. Peter 3:8) for them. The survivors have a human body and cannot fly through the air and space in a speed of thought, for them the Millennium last 1000 years.
@@benny-yj7pq hm, your Scripture use is really solid. Except I’ve always been skeptical of the 1,000yr=1 day idea. Just doesn’t seem to fit the context and point.
Where do you see the prophecies of peace in Israel fitting in?